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Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours
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Ridiculous. If I even had a shot at finishing in 12 hours, I'd probably drop out of school and call myself a pro. If she walks to 12 hours, I'll never forgive myself for a + 12 performance.

What I'm trying to say is that she's waaaaaaaay fucking faster than me :)

http://watersportnews.com/...irns/full_story.html

Think she'll burn up the bike since her marathon is a nonfactor anyways?
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [bradl016] [ In reply to ]
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She will have company on the walk as Macca is going up there to validate his Kona spot..


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Last edited by: Ultra-tri-guy: May 23, 12 22:32
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
She will have company on the walk as Macca is going up there to validate his Kona spot..

Oh snap!
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [bradl016] [ In reply to ]
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This is what is so screwed up about the qualifying process. She is 70.3 World Champ and should get an automatic invite to Kona. Just like Crowie did back in 2006. Having top caliber pros risking hurting themselves, does not help the caliber of the WTC fields and frankly Melissa walking the marathon, just makes a mockery of the WTC qualifying process. Andrew Messick should call Mellissa, give her a wildcard invite NOW and have her on the line at HyVee, Vegas and Kona. It is more important for WTC to have a healthy Mellissa on the line at these races than have her make a spectacle of the qual process and walk the marathon at Cairns.

Dev
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [bradl016] [ In reply to ]
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By the way, change the title of your thread to "70.3 World Champion plans to walk IM Cairns to Validate Kona slot"
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that this is what's screwed up, but disagree with your conclusion about how to fix it. WTC simply should start to leverage the "code of conduct" rules for pros that they have to also apply to how you execute the race. Add some subjectivity in there. Every major sport does it, though obviously often not as much as we want - e.g., Ben Roethlisberger's suspension, but for only six bans.

If you say up front, "I'm going to walk the marathon," then I'd just deny you entry to the race. At least remove that sort of nonsense from it. And then, if the athlete does end up sandbagging on race day, I think WTC should reserve the right to disallow the performance. Heck, there was nothing illegal - that I know of anyway - about Chuckie V drinking a beer at IMH. But WTC banned him for a year for it. Why? Because it made a mockery of the event. And this sort of thing also does that.

I've actually suggested this already to the folks at WTC.

If you are going to approach an Ironman from the standpoint of, "I just want to finish," then do it like Greg Bennett at Melbourne. You definitely don't publicly say, "I'm going to sandbag." You make the effort. At some point, you take it down a notch or two. You finish "well," and you keep quiet. You make it so that people - including me - aren't even totally sure that's what you were doing. But, that's what you get when you are dealing with one of the most professional and savviest veterans of the sport - Benno. Rollison should take some notes. But WTC should require that sort of behavior since expecting pros to act like the Bennetts is not generally a safe bet.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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along the same lines our prison system wouldn't be full to the brim either if people just kept their mouth SHUT.


toe the line, put on a good show, take the finishers medal and go home. no need to bury yourself. just claim GI issues and be done with it.

Tim

p.s. Did you get a finishers medal and t-shirt when you crossed the line last weekend?


Tim
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [TimAndrus] [ In reply to ]
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So between saying, "I'm following the rules because i have to but because of injury I'm going to not actually race." and saying yes I was racing, but i got a tummy ache and walked it in, lying is the best policy?

Not wanting to go after Rapp, but he is valued on this forum because he is so open about his racing, but was his IM race with the stomach issues really issues or was he there because he had sponser obligations and it was a training day? I have no doubt it was the former, but no fan cares if someone says they are going to be on the course for another reason rather than racing.

Styrrell
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
I agree that this is what's screwed up, but disagree with your conclusion about how to fix it. WTC simply should start to leverage the "code of conduct" rules for pros that they have to also apply to how you execute the race. Add some subjectivity in there. Every major sport does it, though obviously often not as much as we want - e.g., Ben Roethlisberger's suspension, but for only six bans.

If you say up front, "I'm going to walk the marathon," then I'd just deny you entry to the race. At least remove that sort of nonsense from it. And then, if the athlete does end up sandbagging on race day, I think WTC should reserve the right to disallow the performance. Heck, there was nothing illegal - that I know of anyway - about Chuckie V drinking a beer at IMH. But WTC banned him for a year for it. Why? Because it made a mockery of the event. And this sort of thing also does that.
I think that particular issue is 'officially' considered outside assistance since (IIRC) someone handed it to him. Whether it was a beer or a cup of water didn't really matter....although the beer made for a much better story.

Now of course, the penalty for outside assistance isn't a 1yr ban, so obviously WTC got creative w/ their doling out the penalty.

---

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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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I forgot about the GI distress incident for Jordan and I assure you my comment was purely coincidental in that regards.

Is lying the best answer? No. Is requiring a "validation" race the best answer? I don't think so either.

Have you ever done a full distance and NOT had something that made you want to slow down? That wouldn't be lieing then right?

Either way I'm glad I do t have to deal with this myself.

Tim


Tim
Last edited by: TimAndrus: May 24, 12 6:24
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [TimAndrus] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that the validation is bad, but giving WTC the benefit of the doubt, it does get the big pros to the big races. WTC had to know that requiring a guy to race a IM race that counted for nothing was going to result is guys going through the motions.

I don't have a problem with a Pro saying so ahead of time. To me making up an excuse is just silly and it bring up issues like I mentioned. If they are going to not be honest about a poor performance, their presence on the web and in interveiws is greatly devalued.

Styrrell
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. Straight up lying does degrade ones value.

I guess I don't see it as lying, more stretching the truth. Perhaps not even stretching if you simply say something like "my legs were getting trashed so I backed off to help prevent injury". I'd venture a guess that would be a valid statement for all.

I wouldn't announce to my employer that I wasn't sick when I called in sick. But there is a good chance I could safely say "I 'think' I might be coming down with something and I am going to take the day off to get it under control"*


*says the that doesn't ever call in sick

Tim


Tim
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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You of all people should be saluting her, not berating her. THis is the same thing when they came out with the finish within 8% of the winner, or no prize money. Remember the athletes that waited at the finish line to make sure everyone got in so they got their check? Were they not applauded by most here and the pros themselves? I see this as the same exact thing. THe whole point of the valadation thing is just a gun to the head of the pros to come race our series for no money. It is to keep them from doing outside events as much as possible if they want to be in hawaii. This is her decleration that it is a screw up system for the pros, and look how silly it really is. The same as Chrissy waiting at the finish line for 2nd place so that 8th can get her money. You show how silly it really is enough times, then just maybe they will change it. I do not think your plan to make it even harder for the pros will sit well with them, and certainly will not help their pocket books..


Almost forgot, pros should not have to be pretending to race and then sandbagging, they are not actors, they are athletes. IT is a horrible system that forces them to become athlete actors..
Last edited by: monty: May 24, 12 6:49
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
I agree that this is what's screwed up, but disagree with your conclusion about how to fix it. WTC simply should start to leverage the "code of conduct" rules for pros that they have to also apply to how you execute the race. Add some subjectivity in there. Every major sport does it, though obviously often not as much as we want - e.g., Ben Roethlisberger's suspension, but for only six bans.

If you say up front, "I'm going to walk the marathon," then I'd just deny you entry to the race. At least remove that sort of nonsense from it. And then, if the athlete does end up sandbagging on race day, I think WTC should reserve the right to disallow the performance. Heck, there was nothing illegal - that I know of anyway - about Chuckie V drinking a beer at IMH. But WTC banned him for a year for it. Why? Because it made a mockery of the event. And this sort of thing also does that.

I've actually suggested this already to the folks at WTC.

If you are going to approach an Ironman from the standpoint of, "I just want to finish," then do it like Greg Bennett at Melbourne. You definitely don't publicly say, "I'm going to sandbag." You make the effort. At some point, you take it down a notch or two. You finish "well," and you keep quiet. You make it so that people - including me - aren't even totally sure that's what you were doing. But, that's what you get when you are dealing with one of the most professional and savviest veterans of the sport - Benno. Rollison should take some notes. But WTC should require that sort of behavior since expecting pros to act like the Bennetts is not generally a safe bet.

Since you brought the NFL up, should we ban teams that don't start their best players on the last two weeks of the season after they have clinched a playoff spot and home field advantage? Why punish someone for being better than everyone else earlier on. If she has qualified through her superior past performances, then she has every right to compete at what ever level she feels necessary. Establishing a "code of conduct" is ridiculous in a sport with too many intangibles to efficiently enforce any of them. If I am a bad swimmer, can I just float through the swim, or do I need to go hard the whole time? And, what is worse, drafting in a non draft legal race (i.e. cheating) or not giving your all in a run? People need to worry more about themselves, than about what others are doing.






Go Faster
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [ajm44] [ In reply to ]
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I *also* disagree with the idea of allowing the 70.3 WC - and even more the 5i50 champ - automatic entry into Kona with "validation." I didn't say validation was the best system. But if you are going to require "validation," i think there should be some performance requirements.

I think Kona should be filled with the best IRONMAN triathletes. I think there should be a performance bar for Ironman that athletes have to meet. Look at the previous champions - Normann, Faris, Macca, Crowie, Natascha, & Chrissie. ALL of them WON Ironman races both before AND AFTER the won Kona. The only recent Kona champ yet to win an Ironman outside of Kona is Mirinda Carfrae, who came 2nd last year in NZ and 3rd this year in Melbourne.

Personally, I do not care what Ms. Rollison does. She's allowed to walk the marathon, so she's going to. But I don't think she should be allowed to walk the marathon. That's my opinion. And I also think that it's poor form to announce ahead of time that you are going to walk because you are simply there because you have to be. I think that's an insult fans, sponsors, everyone. Again, that's just my opinion. I'm not going to lose sleep over her doing it. But that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't say, "I don't agree with that."

Monty - you seem to be forgetting that I was in favor of the 8% rule. And nobody is saying that athletes need to be actors. They just need to recognize that they are "personalities," and - as such - need to recognize that how their actions are perceived is important. You don't need to look any further than Lance Armstrong to see the impact that being cognizant of that can have. Or, strictly within triathlon, just look at Macca. Those guys understand that they are more than just their performance/presence out on the race course. And I can assure you that neither of them would - in advance - openly admit to phoning it in, even if they did. Now, some people may dislike that about them. And that's fine. Differences of opinion are what make the world go 'round.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
You of all people should be saluting her, not berating her. THis is the same thing when they came out with the finish within 8% of the winner, or no prize money. Remember the athletes that waited at the finish line to make sure everyone got in so they got their check? Were they not applauded by most here and the pros themselves? I see this as the same exact thing. THe whole point of the valadation thing is just a gun to the head of the pros to come race our series for no money. It is to keep them from doing outside events as much as possible if they want to be in hawaii. This is her decleration that it is a screw up system for the pros, and look how silly it really is. The same as Chrissy waiting at the finish line for 2nd place so that 8th can get her money. You show how silly it really is enough times, then just maybe they will change it. I do not think your plan to make it even harder for the pros will sit well with them, and certainly will not help their pocket books..


Almost forgot, pros should not have to be pretending to race and then sandbagging, they are not actors, they are athletes. IT is a horrible system that forces them to become athlete actors..

Monty, that's why I think they should just give her a wildcard entry to Kona and call it done.

She can provide medical evidence wrt to why she cannot "run" the IM Cairns run leg, she has proven her value to WTC by winning WTC's 70.3 worlds (and I believe also WTC Asia Pacific 70.3 Championship). She fully intended to (and still intends) to participate in Cairns, meeting what they want her to do. But it is not in WTC's interest to "break her" before their very own "A" events this fall, and it is not in WTC's best interest for her to have to "walk" the Cairns run course. Imagine the NHL forcing Sydney Crosby to play regular season games for the Pittsburgh Penguins when he is still suffering from a concussion and thereby putting him out of commission for the playoffs. No, they'd rather have him on form for the prime time of the playoffs.

Now in fairness, she does not "need" to validate at Cairns....there are several IM events in August where she can validate by just jogging slowly....Regensburg, NYC, Tremblant, IMC, Louisville. Granted, participation in these would reduce her performance at HyVee and Vegas, and I think WTC really should be more worried about her performing in their A events at the highest level, rather than shuffling through an IM In August, or walking one in June. Neither serves a superior business/marketing purpose to having her in "A shape" for WTC "A events".
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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WTC has already made a mockery or so many races... Why should Sopranoman be worth 4000 points and so many others worth 1000.

Basically WTC is saying a 13th place at Sopranoman is worth more than a win at more than half their races.

Should a 7th place finish at IMAZ really be worth more than a win at IMSG

In fact, under the current system, you can have a person WIN 3 IM races and have it be worth less than someone who comes in 3rd at another race.

Perhaps baseball and football should do something similar... beat the Yankees and get the equivalent of 3 wins, beat the Pittsburgh Pirates and get half a win.

The validation rule is bogus. If you have the points or the ranking, especially after a top Kona finish, then having to complete a race just to complete a race is stupid. The points system is more about blocking territory and locking up pros than anything else
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Monty - you seem to be forgetting that I was in favor of the 8% rule. And nobody is saying that athletes need to be actors.\\

No i did not forget, you were just wrong on that issue. Well maybe wrong is too strong, let us say the the majority of opinions were contrary to yours, and the pressure from most the pros got the rule changed. That is how i look at Melissa's statement here, she is making her point in the only way that ironman hears, by overt action against a rule that i would guess that most the pros are against. Perhaps you are going against the tide once again.

And I did not say that athletes should become actors, just that the system in place forces them to that extreme, or do what Melissa is doing here and take the heat for it. My hope is that more pros would come out and support her, just like with the 8% rule and the other rules ironman just forced down the pros throats without any consulting of the actual people those rules affect.

I respect that you have a different opinion, I just do not agree at all with that position. Bennett may or may have not sandbagged, if he did i would have respected him more if he had come out like Melissa and just said how silly this paper valadation really is.

Lastly, I think it is ok to let in the 1/2 and 515o champions, we have so few real big names in the sport, i think it is good to get them all together at one venue. It used to be that pros did all the distances all year long, and it was good for the sport i believe. Just look at all the hype already associated with Bennett and other champions doing hawaii for the 1st time. I'm sure WHitfield would get the same hype if he were to validate too. Personally i will enjoy seeing them at hawaii and what they can do. With this crazy qualifying process they have in place now, things like them racing would never happen.
Last edited by: monty: May 24, 12 8:19
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]
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The baseball and football analogy is a poor one. In terms of Kona Pro Rankings, a better comparison might be in tennis or golf. Different tournaments are absolutely worth different numbers of maximum points. Why shouldn't WImbledon or the Masters be worth more possible points than a lesser event?
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
I *also* disagree with the idea of allowing the 70.3 WC - and even more the 5i50 champ - automatic entry into Kona with "validation." I didn't say validation was the best system. But if you are going to require "validation," i think there should be some performance requirements.

I think Kona should be filled with the best IRONMAN triathletes. I think there should be a performance bar for Ironman that athletes have to meet. Look at the previous champions - Normann, Faris, Macca, Crowie, Natascha, & Chrissie. ALL of them WON Ironman races both before AND AFTER the won Kona. The only recent Kona champ yet to win an Ironman outside of Kona is Mirinda Carfrae, who came 2nd last year in NZ and 3rd this year in Melbourne.

Personally, I do not care what Ms. Rollison does. She's allowed to walk the marathon, so she's going to. But I don't think she should be allowed to walk the marathon. That's my opinion. And I also think that it's poor form to announce ahead of time that you are going to walk because you are simply there because you have to be. I think that's an insult fans, sponsors, everyone. Again, that's just my opinion. I'm not going to lose sleep over her doing it. But that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't say, "I don't agree with that."

Monty - you seem to be forgetting that I was in favor of the 8% rule. And nobody is saying that athletes need to be actors. They just need to recognize that they are "personalities," and - as such - need to recognize that how their actions are perceived is important. You don't need to look any further than Lance Armstrong to see the impact that being cognizant of that can have. Or, strictly within triathlon, just look at Macca. Those guys understand that they are more than just their performance/presence out on the race course. And I can assure you that neither of them would - in advance - openly admit to phoning it in, even if they did. Now, some people may dislike that about them. And that's fine. Differences of opinion are what make the world go 'round.

This is just my opinion... I think that allowing the winners of Hy-Vee and 70.3 WC easy access is great for the sport. Most Ironman races generally have fairly weak fields, guys (or gals) that would have no shot to win or even be competitive in Kona can qualify by doing a bunch of IMs and coming top 10.

I would rather see what the Hy-Vee winner and the 70.3 winner can do in the big dance. If Rollison shows up and comes top 10 in Kona, that will validate her presence for me.

Look back to 2007, I don't think that Sam McGlone did an Ironman distance race before doing Kona and came 2nd to some girl named Chrissie. Should she have been there? I think so.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Reading the article, she had an MRI and is hurt. So, that is totally different than she just wants to save herself. And I totally agree, if the WTC process is she has to complete a race, not "race" a race, she is following the rules.
But here we go again, folks throw in their "opinion", rather than just follow the darn rules. Great, if you do not like the rules, keep quiet, and go work on trying to change them.

I saw nothing in the article that would say she is turning her nose at WTC. There is a rule, she is hurt, but she can meet the rule by walking the run as she is working on getting healthy. Why do some make things into stuff that is NOT what she said. Why do some spend so much time basically saying the rules have to be the way they want, and call it an opinion.

Rules are rules, she is following them, is hurt, and will be on the start line in Kona. We should be saying great job of not hurting herself more and being stupid.

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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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That is however about impossible to enforce. Could YOU for instance say that you are going to walk a run? Sure you could. Would you do it is such a public forum? Um, I think that you are too politically correct to do that. Would it have been more wise for the woman who is referenced in the OP to just "do it" and not talk about it? Maybe - then again, she is shining a light on one of the many issues with getting into Kona for the people who DESERVE to be there.

Simple solution - get rid of the lottery. Open those slots up to people who have earned their slots. If you WIN a 70.0, I say that is an entry - cut and dry. Top 5 at any other IM race (MP-WP) - entry. Win and IM - Free entry.

Oh wait - but how much money does WTC make in selling all those damn lotto spots.....

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
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I disagree.

This is about "making it" to the Championship

So if you race Sopranoman and win you get 4000 points. It takes 4 wins of Ironman Regensberg, Tremblant, Louisville and Wisconsin to equally get as many point.

In baseball, you play more games against teams in your division and a division winner automatically makes the playoffs. So while Texas may be a decent team, Oakland is mediocre, Seattle and LA are not so good. Texas also is the only team in their division with a winning record. Take a look at the East. All teams are even or better. These teams not only beat each other up, it happens frequently that a team is fighting for a wild card spot that would comfortably have one if it was in another division.

In Football, there are "easy schedules" and "tough schedules". Should Denver, a team that was 8-8 and no team had a better than even record in that division really gone to the playoffs, when Tennessee at least had a winning record and did not?

Should teams in the AFC South really had their wins against Indianapolis count, a team that won only 2 games a season? Those teams got two games each against a team that almost went winless, while teams in the AFC WEST all were close to even. Ironically Houston and Tennessee were the two Indy wins, but I believe Houston at that point had clinched and was pretty much resting players by that point.
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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R10C wrote:
That is however about impossible to enforce. Could YOU for instance say that you are going to walk a run? Sure you could. Would you do it is such a public forum? Um, I think that you are too politically correct to do that. Would it have been more wise for the woman who is referenced in the OP to just "do it" and not talk about it? Maybe - then again, she is shining a light on one of the many issues with getting into Kona for the people who DESERVE to be there.


Simple solution - get rid of the lottery. Open those slots up to people who have earned their slots. If you WIN a 70.0, I say that is an entry - cut and dry. Top 5 at any other IM race (MP-WP) - entry. Win and IM - Free entry.

Oh wait - but how much money does WTC make in selling all those damn lotto spots.....


R10,

While I agree that making people pay to be in the lottery is bogus, I do like the concept. Leave some spots available to the everyman. Kona should be open to everyone, not just those who have good genes.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Aussie womens pro to walk marathon - shooting for 12 hours [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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After reading the article I don't understand your view on this. She didn't have anything bad to say about WTC or the fact that she had to finish an IM to validate her spot. She simply said she is injured and will only be able to walk the run. She is following the rules so I see this as being a professional. Similar to other sports that have injury reports before competitions she is stating she has an injury and will not be able to compete at 100%.

Would you suggest that she wait to race another IM later in the season instead of sticking to her planned race schedule?
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