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Escape From Alcatraz
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I just noticed this on TriCalifornia's website and thought I'd pass it on (might have been posted already, but its news to me). Escape has sold out lightening fast (less than 2 hours this year) on-line. TriCalifornia has announced some major changes.

First, there will be qualifying spots at a series of races across the U.S. These will basically be 5 races spread through the USAT regions. There is the Great Lakes Escape, The Great Florida Escape, Scott Tinley's Dirty Adventures, etc. (races and dates on-line at www.tricalifornia.com).

Also, instead of a first-come/first-serve entry system, there will be a series of random drawings. The first drawing is for a pre-determined number of entries out of a pool of triathletes with 5 or more Escapes participations. The next is for triathletes with 3 or more. Then the next is to select 2 people from each state. Finally, there will a general pool. All people in earlier pools not selected will roll-down into the later pools.

Also, there will be corporate relay teams.

Alan
Last edited by: SFTriGuy: Aug 6, 03 11:56
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [SFTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Ugh ... and people complain about getting an IMC slot. Well, at least I know that if I want it badly enough, I can go to Penticton and get myself registered for the race. Escape is held in my backyard, and I'm not encouraged about my chances of getting in. I've done the race twice which drops me quite low on the totem pole.

I know TriCalifornia had to do something - and they are certainly not the only race to require a lottery system. Such a system is particularly tough for a triathlon where max capacity is relatively low. The New York Marathon can support 30,000 people - there is no way a triathlon - especially one of this distance - could do the same.

I wonder if TriCalifornia would consider implementing some type of system where if one volunteers at the race, s/he would get to add that to the number of times they had participated in the race. Yes, this would favor people in the area, but I don't think that's completely unfair as we also bear the race related inconviences such as road closures. Pretty small inconviences, but still ...
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [vogel] [ In reply to ]
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>>I wonder if TriCalifornia would consider implementing some type of system where if one volunteers at the race, s/he would get to add that to the number of times they had participated in the race. Yes, this would favor people in the area, but I don't think that's completely unfair as we also bear the race related inconviences such as road closures. Pretty small inconviences, but still ... <<

Excellent idea! I've just emailed Terry (and credited you, of course). He confirmed the lottery system Monday night and I think it's a great idea. No matter what way they decide, someone won't like it.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [SFTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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This seems like a way to keep new people to the sport, people from outside the SF area and the average traithlete, out of the race.

What is wrong with first come first served? As long as everyone is aware of the time and date registration opens, I can't imagine too many people not having internet access and having a problem signing-up in the first couple of hours.

I sort of understand the process for IMH since its a championship and its an extremely demanding race.

I just don't see how this process is fairer (not sure if that was even an issue) than the first come first served method?

Kind of ironic how USAT holds people responsible for knowing the course but it seems people can't be held responsible for signing-up to something withing 48 hours. Maybe folks from outside the SF should not be penalized if the go off course then.

It does not seem like the best thing for the sport.
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [Bearis] [ In reply to ]
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How does a lottery system benefit those of us in the area? If you are referring to the fact that the first wave of lottery slots will be given out to prospective participants who have raced 5+ times, that could be anyone. Additionally, procedure up until now was to give athletes were a certain number of races priority registration. So, this is really no different except that in the past all priority registrants (I assume, anyway) were able to register. This will no longer be the case.

As to lottery and Kona - the majority of Kona slots are earned, not given away in the lottery. The respective situations of Kona and Alcatraz are completely different being that there is really no qualifying standard for Alcatraz. Although, I guess one can earn there way in next year.

Signing up - this past year - just about everyone knew when to sign up and tried to at midnight on December 1. So many people, in fact, that the server crashed. The big issue was that people tried to sign up when registration opened and were not able to get in.

Finally, Cathy, thanks for passing the idea along to Terry Davis. Now, I neither want nor need any credit; however, what did you say? Vogel, some guy or gal on the internet suggested ... Or am I just naive in believing this is all anonymous and I should start playing with my real name?
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [vogel] [ In reply to ]
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That is a great suggestion. Last year, san Francisco Triathlon Club interviewed Terry Davis (TriCalifornia) for our newsletter. This is an excerpt from that interview:

"18. Another complaint I hear often, which is a great reflection on the quality races you produce, is the speed at which they sell out. So often, many of us are disappointed to learn that they can no longer get into a certain race. Does Tri-California have any plans to help alleviate this problem? Would you consider the following: Any triathlete not competing in this year's race and who volunteers to help out this year will be allowed to register for next year's race on the priority (returning triathletes) registration date as opposed to being forced to wait until the later general registration date?

TERRY DAVIS: The only way that we can alleviate the problem is to make sure that we are consistent with the information on when we are going to accept entries. We put it on our web site months in advance, and anyone who has missed out on getting into a race should know that they have to register on that date. We can not manage a program with too many variations. We had many people try to register last year when they were not a previous participant. We do not have a system to deal with too many variables to we are going to reduce the number of people that can register early. For 2003 only those that have competed for five or more years in a race will be allowed to register early. We will also have a waiting list for a random drawing for those who do not get into the race."


I hope that Terry changes his mind. You can still have the credit :)
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [vogel] [ In reply to ]
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How does a lottery system benefit those of us in the area?
Simple, there are more people from the SF area that do the race than from any other area.

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If you are referring to the fact that the first wave of lottery slots will be given out to prospective participants who have raced 5+ times, that could be anyone.


Anyone!?!? Obviously the universe of people that have done the race 5 times is much, much smaller than those that have done it once or never.

What does having done the race 5 or 100 times have anything to do with being more or less "worthy" of doing the race? How about letting others give it a go! Kind of selfish in a way. We SHOULD all be equal. Do the 5 year veterans get preferential bike racking as well?

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First, there will be qualifying spots at a series of races across the U.S.
This sounds like IMH to me! No other OLY race in the US does this, and Alcatraz is not the only race that fills-up in a matter of days or hours. By the way, do the folks at TriCalifornia think money grows on trees?

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Also, instead of a first-come/first-serve entry system, there will be a series of random drawings.
What is wrong with first come first served? So fix the server, get one that can handle more hits. I pitty Ebay.

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The big issue was that people tried to sign up when registration opened and were not able to get in.
I signed-up a friend without any problem early that morning. I can't imagine it being that easy this time around. So the issue seems to become bigger rather than smaller.

It just seems to be that this is not the "best" way to go about it. I don't take anything away from either the race itself or the good intentions of the race organizers that seem to be trying to "better" things.
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz & Wildflower [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know if Wildflower will be handled this way as well, atleast in terms of a random drawing?

Thanks,
Scott
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [Bearis] [ In reply to ]
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It may true that more SF triathletes have done the race...that's to be expected, we live here. We have supported the race the longest and have helped it grow. More SF people volunteer also and come out to cheer on the racers. I think this is Terry's way of thanking a very loyal following - those that have participated in the race the most times. Preferential? Sure - but as you point out, 5 Escapes is a pretty small universe. Plus, it is no more unfair than IM Hawaii having a Kona-only lottery - again, in respect to those who have supported the race and helped it grow.

As to your comment about why the USAT can't require triathletes to know when something opens up for registeration - they don't own or manage Escape. The registeration procedure is determined by race directors (many of whom would resent USAT telling themn how to run registeration procedures for their races).

Lotteries are held for various events - NY Marathon, The Death Ride, IM Canada (a few entries); IM Hawaii (a few entries), etc. Why not here?

Finally, there are many other races that do ahve qualifying events. Almost all IMNA events have or are qualifying events for other races. In Europe, again many races are qualifiers for otehr races. I think its a great idea to create a series and it actually uses the Escape popularity to help promote new races.

My $0.02

Alan
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz & Wildflower [bianchiusa] [ In reply to ]
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I did take a look at the website but didn't see a similar program for Wildflower. I could have missed it or it may be implimented later, but I think the logistics (Wildflower actually being its own series of events with a much larger participation base) make this more appropriate for Alcatraz.
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz & Wildflower [SFTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Terry didn't mention anything about WF going lottery. And, they already have the 5-time early registratio for the LC.

And Vogel--I only referred to you as "a local triathlete". Only a small percentage of people on this forum use any kind of real name.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [SFTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that 5 timers is a small universe which is why I was shocked that you said everyone. I also agree that it is such a small universe of people (that is what I imagine) that it will not really make or break things.

The whole IM thing, especially with IMH does seem a bit much to me as well. All sorts of special lottery lists from Hawaii specific to ones that you pay tons of $$$, etc.

I mentioned USAT just as a reference. I am aware that its TriCalifornia that makes the rules (for the most part). Whomever it is though, I think has done and can do a good job at informing people of the when, where and how to sign-up for the race. This seems to me to be the most leveled playing field.

I know lotteries are held for a lot of events (again no sprint or Oly tris that I can think of), but that does not mean its the best way of doing things. I still think that with a clear statement of the facts, it is "fairer" to have a first come first served basis. The idea was taken to another level at the Lifetime Triathlon this past weekend where not only were you registered on a first come first served basis, but you also started the race by your race # (based on when you signed-up to the race). In this case they let atheletes out one at a time every 3 seconds rather than in 50 or 100 person waves. Still the concept was great as it did not favor or harm any age group or gender or weight class. Destiny of your start time was technically in your hands, rather than being determined by your gender or age (either of which you have much control over) or some whacky race director.

The idea of qualifying is fair enough. Just that it involved mucho $$$. Some of us are fortunate enough to have plenty of $$ or are sponsored. A lot of folks have neither. In the case of IMH, its a championship so I understand the qualification part (not the lottery). It happens with USAT Nationals and Age-Group Worlds. I also think that an IM event or some other event of that length and magnitude, can be very dangerous if the person is not prepared and knows what they are getting into. In the name of safety it does seem like it may be a good idea for IM events and the like to require a half IM or similiar event as a qualifying requirement.

Anyhow, hope to see you there next year.

Cheers
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [Bearis] [ In reply to ]
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This whole thing seems very fair to me. By the way, is anyone out there from West Virginia? There is a lottery to give two slots to competitors from every state. I am in search of a West Virgina address to use.
Last edited by: ajfranke: Aug 6, 03 18:41
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [ In reply to ]
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Let me see if I understand the new triathlon qualification system: The more times I have done a race, the greater my entitlement to do the race again.

Sounds like a superb way to marginalize a race and alienate newcomers to the sport.

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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [jmorrissey] [ In reply to ]
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Damn, I was hoping to do Escape next year but given that I live in the UK I have to rely on the lottery since I can't afford to fly over for the qualifying races.

I was in Portugal last year running a marathon and still managed to get online in time to get into Wildflower this year. Pity I didn't do Escape this year instead.

Ah well.
dt.
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [davet] [ In reply to ]
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They might have qualifying races in Europe and Australia as well (I think I read that on their website). So all you will have to do is fly from the UK to Italy or Australia and qualify. Simple enough, right!

By the way, the folks at TriCalifornia will probably be calling you soon. Your ability to register for a race online while being away from home in a foreign country, (I've been to Portugal many a time and high-speed internet access is a rare, rare thing), dealing with time zones all while preparing to run a marathon must completely blow their minds away.

NYC city are notorious for being booked weeks in advance. I hear that from now on New Yorkers and regulars will have a reservations number just for them. The folks coming over for the NYC Tri this weekend will best be bringing plenty of powerbars.
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [davet] [ In reply to ]
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The only thing I can say is that I have not seen the numbers to be drawn from each pool. It may be possible that a smaler number (say 50) will be drawn form each of the 5 year and 3 year pools, then an additional 100 from teh 2-per-state pool (and those 100 will be from a pool of everyone) with the remaining 1000+ coming from the open pool. I do not know - not even sure if TriCalifornia has decided upon that. Finally, there is one follow-up lottery for those spaces awarded in the first drawings that were not actually utilized (granted, a small number but there nonetheless).
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [SFTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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In the rowing community the Head of the Charles is the toughest event to get into for the year in north america. They use a loterry system with a few differences. If you place within 5% of the winning time in your division, then you get an automatic entry into the following years regatta. After that you are placed in a lottery with newcomers based on your percentage from the winning time in your division...basically a new comer will have an equal shot as someone between 6-10% of the winning time in your division. Soo...the farther off you are from the winning time in your division, the less likely you are to get an entry next year over a new comer. It may seem a bit cut throat, but it makes it very fair for people who didn't get an entry in the previous years regatta. If anyone is interested in the actual breakdown of how they do it you can go to www.hocr.org
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Re: Escape From Alcatraz [KAlber] [ In reply to ]
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What you describe is fair by virtue of it being based on a merit system. The better your performances, the better your chances of inclusion. You could use a similar system for controlling entry into a championship triathlon. I think the model used for Hawaii is good(overall.) You could do what the Boston Marathon does: A valid qualifying time based at a certified course(on their qualification list) gets you into the race.

However this system fails when you are talking about a plain old race(as opposed to a championship) that is popular because of its location only, especially one that is not a standard distance, because it becomes difficult to correlate finishing times from other races to that race, and to other competitors qualifications. It is also a race that most people want to do for the sake of what it is, not because it is a gateway to another race. Let's face it: The only way you get to say you swam from The Rock is to do this race.

If you are trying to run a popular event that can potentially draw a lot of people from outside your locality(as opposed to just another local tri), then it behooves you (but only if you want to stay in the good graces of local businessmen) to make entry fair and possible for the folks who will be spending thousands to come to your race, as opposed to favoring the folks in Walnut Creek who will spend no more than entry fees and lunch money when they come to the race.

Keep it simple. Keep it honest. And people won't hate you. Well, some people will, but you just can't help that.



Disclaimer: No offense is meant towards the noble inhabitants of Walnut Creek, CA. It was used simply as an example of a community within easy driving distance of the Escape race. Some of my best friends live in Walnut Creek. No inhabitants of Walnut Creek were harmed in the writing of this relatively superfluous post.

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