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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]
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avikoren1 wrote:
Press enter twice and you get the option to turn off gps. I usually do this while it searches for sat.

At first I thought this did not work at all but now I see that it only works in a very specific situation.

Right after you turn the watch on, before it has locked on to satellites, this feature works once (actually you only need to hit Enter once, not twice). The "Use Watch Indoors" menu comes up. But that's it: This is the only time you can ever call up this menu.

  • If you inadvertently hit "No" the first time, hitting Enter will not bring it up again.
  • Once the watch locks on, hitting Enter will not call up the menu.
  • If you do turn the GPS off this way, hitting Enter will not let you turn it back on.

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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [michael_runs] [ In reply to ]
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michael_runs wrote:

I have also read that the problem doesn't exist as bad at much faster paces (6:00 minute miles, etc). Is it possible that Garmin only thought "serious" athletes would be buying the 910xt and decided not to test at the pedestrian 9:00 and 10:00 minute mile pace?

Unlikely. If anything, I would expect the opposite. That's who their real target market is.

On a whim, I tried to see what it was like running with this field after I updated my unit to the latest firmware. I was doing a run around 7 minute per mile pace. I noticed two things

1. Oh God,, what a tortuous, joyless experience running would be if I needed to use this feature, even it it worked properly. It reminds me off the time I briefly tried to run by heart rate, only far more tortuous
2. It still did not work for me even after updating and resetting. I ran two miles at 7:20 and then 7:02 and the watch almost never dipped below 8:00 / mile pace. After that I just stopped looking at it.
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [michael_runs] [ In reply to ]
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michael_runs wrote:
I have also read that the problem doesn't exist as bad at much faster paces (6:00 minute miles, etc). Is it possible that Garmin only thought "serious" athletes would be buying the 910xt and decided not to test at the pedestrian 9:00 and 10:00 minute mile pace?

I'd suggest it's really just a simple math issue. If you run at a 6/minute mile, the differential percentage wise converted to minutes/mile is less than that a 10/minute mile. Meaning, 10% of 6:00/min/mile is 36s, whereas 10% of 10:00/mile is 1-minute. Usually computers are fairly predictable in nature, and don't teld to hold grudges against slower runners (I know, the opposite of the ST forums...). ;)

That said, tonight I ran my run using instant pace on the FR910XT without too much issue. It was +/- about 5-10s at any point. Doesn't of course solve those that for some reason the update hasn't fixed, nor does it address the larger philosphical issue of the best way to smooth data. But, a data point it is.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [vitalstatistix] [ In reply to ]
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People like you are the reason I have only posted a handful of times on these boards. I'm not trying to use my watch to learn steady pacing.... been done decades ago. Furthermore, I never said you can't run steady without it. I merely stated that it was the only true parameter on the watch that truly promoted steady pacing. So, Johnny IQ, can you run steady paces with IP? Yes. Can you run steady paces with Avg P? Yes. Can you run steady paces with Avg LL? Yes. Can you run steady paces with a Timex 50 lap watch? Yes. Moreover, can you run steady paces with no watch at all? Absolutely. The statement I made was in response to people saying IP was useless and who cares if it works anyway. Obviously, those people don't understand how to use it. That was the point I was trying to promote. I stick by what I said and could care less whether you agree or not. I'm out and back to a more pleasing world without mouth breathing ST Message Board guy.

Doug Kugley
Fast Splits Coaching
http://www.fastsplitscoaching.com
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [dkugley] [ In reply to ]
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I am getting fed up with Garmin. I had an issue regarding slow course re-draws while mtn bike a twisty course. So the 910 couldn't re-draw the course fast enough as I was biking and therefore most of the time I was starring at a blank screen with the word "drawing" or something like that. I just did a side by side comparison between the 305 and 910 with the exact same course. The 305 draws the course in approx one second, the 910 takes over 30 seconds. This is RIDICULOUS GARMIN. Get your act together. The 910 was supposed to be an upgrade for me, it feels more like a downgrade.
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [cardsfandave] [ In reply to ]
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Mine is working like a charm with the new update as well.
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [Biertuempfel] [ In reply to ]
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Got my 910 on Sunday, have now used it for 1 each SBR.

First started out w/ an easy warmup jog with the dog. I had it set to autopause and there were a lot of stops with the dog, the distance seemed short, perhaps it loses a bit with each autopause. I've since turned off that feature, my runs are generally uninterrupted and I don't really care about accurate pace when I run with the dog.

On my run, IP seemed OK at first when I was running on a wider street with few trees. When I got on a narrower street with more trees it seemed to jump around a bit. In general, the IP seemed to be a bit slower than my actual pace, typically read 8:00-8:30 and my actual pace for the run was 7:51. I have a mile I measured on Google Earth and it came within 1%, which is as good as could be expected. Halfway through my run I switched to a screen that showed lap pace and that's what I'll use for now. The downloaded trace seemed spot on for the run, I was very pleased with it.

Next was a mountain bike ride on hilly singletrack. I don't push the speed on the MTB, I tend to hit the uphills hard and concentrate on riding safely the rest of the time. Still, my average speed of 6.8 mph was even slower than I expected, slower than my run, LOL. I'm actually a passable cyclist but you'd never know it from this ride. The downloaded trace tracked my ride reasonably well but accuracy definitely seemed a bit lower than the run, my route doubles back over the same trail and there was a definite offset on those sections. Good enough for my purposes, after all I've never known my speed or distance before on the MTB but I'd like to have seen a bit better accuracy. Zooming in I'd guess that it was reading a bit low as there were a lot of short straight sections on the trace that didn't capture a lot of the little jogs you do on singletrack. There was a lag in speed, so I think I'll get speed sensors for my road & tri bikes.

Last night did a pool swim. It was crowded so had to circle swim. A short workout, only 2300 yards as I got there late. All of the lengths were spot on except two where I experienced interference due to the circle swim. On one I had to turnaround short of the wall as two swimmers were standing there and as might be expected it missed that turnaround so I was 25 yards short. On another I overtook a slower swimmer and almost stopped then switched briefly to breast stroke, she was close to the wall so no point in passing. The garmin split that length into two so I got back my 25 yards. I did like the 13 seconds it gave me for 25 yards, I wish. The various metrics confirm what I already knew, my stroke sucks and I have my work cut out for me. I think this will be really useful for a relatively inexperienced swimmer such as myself as I can experiment with my stroke and look afterwards to see what is fastest, especially since the lap clock has been broken for 3 months now.

Overall a really fun toy.
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the pace graph from Garmin Connect for my run this morning. You see that the Avg Pace is 8:16/mile which is correct. What is odd is all that pace data that is slower than 8:16/mile while very little if any is faster than 8:16/mile. One would think that an average pace would have an equal amount of time slower as well as faster. I think this graph does a good job of illustrating the problem with the 910xt instant pace. Yes, this is with the 2.40 firmware. I even did a full reset of the device and left it outside for 30 minutes.

http://imgur.com/gfY3H
Last edited by: michael_runs: Feb 28, 12 7:17
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [michael_runs] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, that graph looks funny.

--
MyGearGarage - Track all your gear!
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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Re: distance with GPS units on mountain bikes, here's the deal: Even the best units still don't get nearly as good position data due to tree cover. They're light years better than just five years ago, though, so they fool you into thinking your data should be good. When you combine that with singletrack that winds close to itself and does a lot of switchbacks, it's going to short you distance when only using a GPS for distance. The frustrating thing is you can't just assume it's X percent short on trail, since for each given trail it's going to be a bit different.

The fix is to put a speed sensor on the wheel and make sure it's calibrated properly to the tire diameter. You'll start getting much more consistent distance data. The problem here is that it's mountain biking and those sensors are fairly easy to knock out of alignment. If one is knocked completely away from the magnet, it will switch and use GPS data for distance. What sucks is when it's knocked just far enough away to only register occasionally. Then it doesn't switch and you get *bad* data. As in you're distance will be WAY low and there's no easy way to fix it. I've had that happen a few times.

But to me, it seems more useful to have a speed sensor on a mountain bike than a road bike. The GPS units are pretty good in the road situation since there's less cover and you're turning less, though I understand if you want it REALLY accurate you might as well. But you're never going to be nearly as far off on the road as you will on the trail.


--Donnie
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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JoeO wrote:
avikoren1 wrote:
Press enter twice and you get the option to turn off gps. I usually do this while it searches for sat.


At first I thought this did not work at all but now I see that it only works in a very specific situation.

Right after you turn the watch on, before it has locked on to satellites, this feature works once (actually you only need to hit Enter once, not twice). The "Use Watch Indoors" menu comes up. But that's it: This is the only time you can ever call up this menu.


  • If you inadvertently hit "No" the first time, hitting Enter will not bring it up again.
  • Once the watch locks on, hitting Enter will not call up the menu.
  • If you do turn the GPS off this way, hitting Enter will not let you turn it back on.

I may have missed part of the convesation.

But as a note, you can always turn on/off the GPS via the standard Mode > GPS > GPS Status > Enabled/Disabled.

This is in addition to the 'quick-off' option for indoor folks who turn it off immediately upon turning on unit.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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Im not sure about anyone elses but I just took mine out for a quick run after the update and the data looks really good on the IP. I was checking as I went and it was much more stable than before. I am not sure if you can go here but here is the link to the run and you can see the graph for the pace is pretty dang consistent
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/153582320
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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True I was just lamenting the fact that they removed the GPS quick on/off option from the sport selection menu. it use to be there on the 205
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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I can't seem to find the quick off method. I go through the settings menu. How does the shortcut work?

------------------------
Loud pawls save lives
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [SKIBUMM] [ In reply to ]
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I've also had great results with instant pace since the update.
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [michael_runs] [ In reply to ]
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michael_runs wrote:
You see that the Avg Pace is 8:16/mile which is correct. What is odd is all that pace data that is slower than 8:16/mile while very little if any is faster than 8:16/mile.

There is a difference between average pace and average moving pace. The 8:16 may be your average moving pace. I think there is / was a setting where you can dictate what is the minimum pace to be included in the pace calculations. Not saying that is the issue but it might be.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
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All I know is that all my mile splits were less than 8:30, I never stopped, and instant pace was over 9:00 pretty much the entire time.
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [hks] [ In reply to ]
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I posted a while back with the issues I was having pre-update (same as everyone else re actual pace). I said I would repost so ....

Again, wearing the FR305 and the new 910XT on the same arm I went for a run this morning. I updated the firmware on the 910XT to 2.4 a couple of days ago.

The instant pace is still not as smooth as the FR305 which, again, was more stable. I put this down to the FR305 having the smoothing options: Most / More / Less / Least. I have the FR305 set to 'More'.

The 910XT has improved considerably though. The Actual Pace might jump a little, but nowhere near the amount it did before and is at least useable. Readings on the 910 were now the same or somewhere within a range of 10 seconds either side of the 305. I assume that this much smaller range would be nailed with the option to smooth pacing. Why it is not included with the firmware update is anyones guess, I assume the number of people claiming 'much better but still needs work' will mean that they will at least look for a future upgrade and maybe they just pushed this initial fix out quickly to relieve the number of forum posts on instant pace woes.

Overall, much better, useable, but still needs the pace smoothing option for the actual pace to be as sweet as the 305.

Aside from that I am really happy with it. The swim mode is fantastic. Nailed every length and has already given me some insight into the fact that as I get tired my stroke rate goes while my speed goes down. If there was a mode to correct that as well as body position then I would be happier still.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [RazorTri] [ In reply to ]
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RazorTri wrote:
I can't seem to find the quick off method. I go through the settings menu. How does the shortcut work?

As soon as you turn the watch on five bars appear as the watch looks for a signal.
If you press enter at that time you get the option to turn off GPS.
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
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Jaymz wrote:
The swim mode is fantastic. Nailed every length and has already given me some insight into the fact that as I get tired my stroke rate goes [up] while my speed goes down.

I just got through looking at the intervals from yesterday's swim workout and noticed the exact same relationship. At the beginning of the workout I was swimming fast and easy with a low stroke count and at the end I was swimming slow and hard and flailing like a paddle boat. I think the ability to analyze my swim workouts is giving me insights that are starting to translate into better form and faster times in the pool. Now I just need to work on holding that better form for a longer duration. We will see.


Panabax

We’ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true.—Robert Wilensky
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [vitalstatistix] [ In reply to ]
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vitalstatistix wrote:
RazorTri wrote:
I can't seem to find the quick off method. I go through the settings menu. How does the shortcut work?


As soon as you turn the watch on five bars appear as the watch looks for a signal.
If you press enter at that time you get the option to turn off GPS.

That is great! Thanks a lot.

------------------------
Loud pawls save lives
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [Panabax] [ In reply to ]
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I kind of had that feeling but to see some hard evidence means that the changes you make, you make with more conviction.

I can imagine the thrashing is even more tiring than the faster, lower stroke rate anyway. Just a case of mind over matter at that point. My end of set splits dropped immediately from 1:40's to 1:30's. per 100m. That alone is worth the value of the entire watch!

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [Biertuempfel] [ In reply to ]
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I still have the Instant Pace problem with my 910xt after the firmware update. My 305 is rock solid on instant pace; the 910xt is +/- 1 min/mile. It's the parameter I reference the most frequently when running and it's frustrating that my old 305 is more usable and accurate.
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [Carlton Bale] [ In reply to ]
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Carlton Bale wrote:
it's frustrating that my old 305 is more usable and accurate.

That's where my frustration is as well. You would think that on their flagship product (the 910xt) they could get a feature working at least as well as it does on a lesser product (the 305).
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Re: Garmin 910xt-software update, now worse [michael_runs] [ In reply to ]
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Its worse than the 305 in other areas too. My beef is course draw time. When following a twisty course, by the time it updated (drawing) the course I missed the turn. I did an experiment, the 305 and 910 with the same course. The 305 drew it in about 1 or 2 seconds. The 910 took about 30 seconds. That is either an inferior product, design or designer.
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