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Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT
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Blind athlete to sue U.S. Triathlon group for discrimination over "black out" glasses rulehttp://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2011/06/21/news/local_news/doc4e00ebd86f739628060397.txtDespite lobbying efforts from the visually impaired triathlon community, USAT continues to turn a blind eye as visually impaired athletes are harassed at US events about blackening out their vision if they want to have their time count in a physically challenged wave. If you don't believe it, look up the rules in the USAT official rule book. Visually impaired athletes sought relief at a Paratriathlon Summit in Colorado Springs, and while most were sympathetic, USAT has chosen to do nothing to stop this blatant discrimination. I personally know a visually impaired athlete who was sought out at an event this year and was instructed to wear the blackout goggles in spite of zero experience running totally blind. While this suit will be filed on behalf of Aaron Scheidies, world champion, many more names would have been on this suit if we were residents of Michigan. Please share the above article link to get the word out.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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richhunter wrote:
...if they want to have their time count in a physically challenged wave....

I think this is the important part there. Where do we draw the line between people that can't see very well and people that are completely blind? Do we let anyone that claims to be visually impaired compete in the physically challenged wave. Is it fair to let someone who has an impairment but not total blindness compete against someone who is completely blind?

I think the attempt is to make the playing field fair for all in the "physically challenged wave." If they don't want to obey the rules to be included in that wave then they can always race with the other age groupers right?

I hate to sound insensitive, but what are they to do when you have people being placed against each other in a physically challenged wave with varying different physical impairments? Do we have a completely blind wave, a 20% blind wave, a blind in one eye wave, a 20/20 vision wave, etc. etc?
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpaulson518] [ In reply to ]
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X2, nuff said.

jpaulson518 wrote:
richhunter wrote:
...if they want to have their time count in a physically challenged wave....


I think this is the important part there. Where do we draw the line between people that can't see very well and people that are completely blind? Do we let anyone that claims to be visually impaired compete in the physically challenged wave. Is it fair to let someone who has an impairment but not total blindness compete against someone who is completely blind?

I think the attempt is to make the playing field fair for all in the "physically challenged wave." If they don't want to obey the rules to be included in that wave then they can always race with the other age groupers right?

I hate to sound insensitive, but what are they to do when you have people being placed against each other in a physically challenged wave with varying different physical impairments? Do we have a completely blind wave, a 20% blind wave, a blind in one eye wave, a 20/20 vision wave, etc. etc?
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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A real landmark for human rights...

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The Triathlon Squad

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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [yme] [ In reply to ]
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X3! Just what the sport needs....a lawsuit.


yme wrote:
X2, nuff said.

jpaulson518 wrote:
richhunter wrote:
...if they want to have their time count in a physically challenged wave....


I think this is the important part there. Where do we draw the line between people that can't see very well and people that are completely blind? Do we let anyone that claims to be visually impaired compete in the physically challenged wave. Is it fair to let someone who has an impairment but not total blindness compete against someone who is completely blind?

I think the attempt is to make the playing field fair for all in the "physically challenged wave." If they don't want to obey the rules to be included in that wave then they can always race with the other age groupers right?

I hate to sound insensitive, but what are they to do when you have people being placed against each other in a physically challenged wave with varying different physical impairments? Do we have a completely blind wave, a 20% blind wave, a blind in one eye wave, a 20/20 vision wave, etc. etc?

Gary Geiger
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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"By the 10th Revision of the WHO International Statistical Classification of Diseases, Injuries and Causes of Death, low vision is defined as visual acuity of less than 6/18, but equal to or better than 3/60, or corresponding visual field loss to less than 20 degrees, in the better eye with best possible correction. Blindness is defined as visual acuity of less than 3/60, or corresponding visual field loss to less than 10 degrees, in the better eye with best possible correction."


This is the international standard for what constitutes visually impaired and blind. Perhaps it could help w/t the drawing of lines
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpaulson518] [ In reply to ]
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I am hearing impaired. It presents a different set of challenges than visual impairment. However, there is a similarity here. No, my hearing isn't great, but without my hearing aid, my balance is off a little. If the athlete can pereive light, being thrust into the dark with blackout lenses would be an incredible challenge.

Those "arrive prepared" statements are absurd. You think they should have to train with blackout lenses? I am not sure how much that would help a ton, as they are not likely to wear them for the other 98% of their life.

With sentiments like the above posted, apparently this sport DOES need a lawsuit. People are simply ignorant of the reality faced by others.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [triguy98] [ In reply to ]
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This just seems like a lose-lose situation.

One would think that people with partial sight would have a huge advantage over totally blind people. At that point would the zero sight people have to file a lawsuit against USAT for discrimination?

--------------------------------------------------------

It seemed like a good idea at the time. . .
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpaulson518] [ In reply to ]
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If you read the entire article, I think it does a very good job explaining the reality of blacked out goggles for VI athletes. I was the guide for Aaron at the NYC race in 2010 and have guided him for the better part of 8 years (100+ races) And I was able to witness first hand the effects... When you live life with 20% vision and then are expected to completely remove that sense on race day, how are you leveling the playing field? What purpose does this rule serve?

We as a community need to embrace and support challenged athletes of all levels. It's hard enough to navigate life with unfair rules and daily ignorance to their personal challenges.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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i don't know if we need a lawsuit or not. but it seems we certainly need a discussion. i love threads like these. i'm going to learn some stuff i didn't know, and read some points of view to which i haven't been exposed.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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I think the saying goes:

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king".

If he is competing in a "blind" wave, then clearly he has some advantage over those with less vision. If is simply a "physically challenged " wave, then it is likely already composed of a wide assortment of challenges, some presenting larger challenges than others. Given that there would be no way to level that field, then I don't really see a need to provide further challenges to the athletes.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [Westhuron] [ In reply to ]
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Westhuron wrote:
When you live life with 20% vision and then are expected to completely remove that sense on race day, how are you leveling the playing field? What purpose does this rule serve?

Do you seriously not understand how it levels the playing field, or are you intentionally being obtuse?
  • The rule has been in place since March, 2010, and applies only to the run portion. He's had more than a year to train with them.
  • The article states that 15% of blind people have no sight at all. I'd guess those folks feel the playing field has been leveled. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise if one of those folks chimes in here. But as much as think that USAT is a joke organization, I'd guess they considered this before adopting the rule.
  • He's not at all required to wear the glasses; he can compete in the non-disabled wave.
These are the types of suits that have caused backlash against the Americans with Disabilities Act, which was intended to allow people with disabilities to hold jobs and get through life with a minimum of personal assistance. And now people are suing because they can't compete in the triathlon division that they prefer, in the exact manner that they prefer?

This same mentality is trying to push for obesity being a disability protected under ADA. Which would mean I could sue USAT for telling me I had to gain 20 pounds to compete in the Clydesdale division because I wasn't completely obese, just 80% obese.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpaulson518] [ In reply to ]
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have to agree here. Makes a good point.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [triguy98] [ In reply to ]
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triguy98 wrote:
I am hearing impaired. It presents a different set of challenges than visual impairment. However, there is a similarity here. No, my hearing isn't great, but without my hearing aid, my balance is off a little. If the athlete can pereive light, being thrust into the dark with blackout lenses would be an incredible challenge.

Those "arrive prepared" statements are absurd. You think they should have to train with blackout lenses? I am not sure how much that would help a ton, as they are not likely to wear them for the other 98% of their life.

With sentiments like the above posted, apparently this sport DOES need a lawsuit. People are simply ignorant of the reality faced by others.

  1. Do you compete in a hearing impaired division? If not, there is very little similarity.
  2. If you do compete in hearing impaired division, do you think you face as many challenges as someone with no hearing at all?
  3. Would you sue USAT if they did not allow you to wear a hearing aid in the hearing impaired division?

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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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disabled athletes who want to compete should have guidelines and rules to make it fair for all. The arguments made swayed me. USAT is perceived as the bad guy but someone has to set rules and guidelines to try and make it fair. If that person can't blacken out their glasses then just run the race to do the race rather than competing. It's not like he can't be in the event.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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So 85% of visually impaired athletes have some sense of vision, be just a perception of light, or the ability to make out vague shapes? And yet, you would prefer they not be able to do that? Training with something like that does not equate to adapting to it. Even if a sense is impaired, taking it away completely throws off the body's equilibrium. It would be nice if one of those 15% would chime in, but we both know the likelihood of that.

It would seem to me that the overreaction is on the part of USAT, not the athlete. Does the athlete even have the option of competeing in the AG ranks? I could see them crying fault over safety concerns and the athlete being "paced" by his mandatory guide.

It would be nice if all of us were perfect. Your assumptions that the disabled just need to man up and quit abusing the ADA are comical to me. You have never obviously never faced discrimination for physical impairments. Never been denied a job for no other reason than an impairment of one variety or the other. Must be nice. It would be fantastic if people would do the right and ethical thing all the time, but that is simply not the way it goes.

I hate our sue-happy society more than most. But sometimes it is the ONLY way to be heard and taken seriously.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [triguy98] [ In reply to ]
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I was wrong: if he chooses to not wear the glasses, he can still compete in the Physically Challenged division--just the "Open" division, rather than the "National Championship" division. Here are the rules. Still think it's worthy of a lawsuit?

http://www.nyctri.com/...al_Championships.htm

Race Waves: There are two Paratriathlon race waves.
  • "Accenture Paratriathlon National Championship": You must have a verified, official sub-2 hour Sprint or sub-4 hour Olympic distance finish between July 19, 2010 and June 1, 2011 to enter. The race will be an Olympic 1k/40k/10k distance event. All USAT rules will be enforced. Medical classification is required for all entrants. All participants are eligible for USA Paratriathlon National Championship awards and ITU World Championship qualification. ITU Worlds qualifying standards will be announced February 1, 2011.
  • "Accenture PC Open": All USA Paratriathlon rules enforced. No qualifying time required. No medical classification required. Eligible for awards in two categories only – wheelchair and standing. Results are ranked by finishing time. Wave starts separate from Paratriathlon National Championship wave.

Note: Visually impaired athletes who do not wear the ‘blackout glasses’ may compete in the PC Open. Visually impaired athletes in the National Championship wave who do not wear blackout glasses will be disqualified and are not eligible for awards.
Last edited by: AlwaysCurious: Jun 21, 11 18:52
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like USAT is a fan of Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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The only organization that I can find that uses this tactic is ITU/ Usat. The US Paralympics or International Blind Sports Federation do not recognize seperate visually impaired catagories, nor require competitors to wear black out glasses. Even with sports such as Judo, which you would think any sensory "advantage" would be unfair. Triathlon is trying to make an issue where one simply does not exist.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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AlwaysCurious wrote:
triguy98 wrote:
I am hearing impaired. It presents a different set of challenges than visual impairment. However, there is a similarity here. No, my hearing isn't great, but without my hearing aid, my balance is off a little. If the athlete can pereive light, being thrust into the dark with blackout lenses would be an incredible challenge.

Those "arrive prepared" statements are absurd. You think they should have to train with blackout lenses? I am not sure how much that would help a ton, as they are not likely to wear them for the other 98% of their life.

With sentiments like the above posted, apparently this sport DOES need a lawsuit. People are simply ignorant of the reality faced by others.

  1. Do you compete in a hearing impaired division? If not, there is very little similarity.
  2. If you do compete in hearing impaired division, do you think you face as many challenges as someone with no hearing at all?
  3. Would you sue USAT if they did not allow you to wear a hearing aid in the hearing impaired division?

The division does not exist. This does not upset me. I prefer to just do my thing. But I am not required to ride tandem and be tethered, either.

If I was to compete in such a division, racing without my hearing aid would put my at the same disadvantages.

I would not sue if they wouldn't let me wear a hearing aid, but the blackout glasses would be more like forcing me to wear earmuffs or ear plugs.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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I'd like to hear more about how that ITU rule was devised. On the surface, the concept of blackout glasses seems to me to represent a level of ignorance that is simply incomprehensible.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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I this when it first started to build and fully support Aaron. With his condition, he is at a disadvantage in the blackout glasses, since what little vision he has provides him basically equilibrium and little else.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [Westhuron] [ In reply to ]
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Westhuron wrote:

We as a community need to embrace and support challenged athletes of all levels. It's hard enough to navigate life with unfair rules and daily ignorance to their personal challenges.


This.


------------------------------------------------------------
"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

The Dude Abides...
Last edited by: Raul: Jun 21, 11 19:32
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
sounds like the blind athlete is just like most of the sighted athletes

ARRIVED UNPREPARED!

Real eff'n funny Jack. You truly are a class act.


------------------------------------------------------------
"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

The Dude Abides...
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