my calcs give

size stack reach
57 569 434
59 585 429

Hello, Do you have for the 53 size ?

Thanks,

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Luiz Eng

Thank you! Are those reach numbers reversed? How could the reach be shorter on the 59?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I suspected you would ask that. The answer is no. It's pretty typical to see this on bikes that weren't designed with stack and reach in mind.

If you look at the chart I just posted above for Luiz you'll note that the STA changes by 1 degree from 57 to 59, which negates the 1cm change in top tube. Then the longer head tube reduces reach further.

They are actually the same length. If we normalise the bar height (since you don't ride a frame only) the reach to the bars is only 1mm different. Having identical front centre figures backs up that they are the same length.

Basically you would choose the 59 if you needed higher bars and the 57 if you needed lower. The 57 requires 17mm more spacers to get the same bar height with the same stem.

I got ya. I did note the change in STA and wondered if that impacted the reach. Thanks again!

BTW, your chart is showing up at a red X.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I will throw this question to you as well, if you don't mind.

I am looking for a 2006 Saber frame in either a 57 or 59 (but, now with the numbers you provided, I am convinced that 59 is the right size).

I found a 2007 Saber frame in 57 and it looks like the shop has a 59.

On the 57, the 2006 head tube is 167 and the 2007 is 130. That is quite a drop and likely makes the 2007 frame not work for me. But, the shop is telling me that in 2007, the Saber switched to an external headset that "added" 23 mm. So, that should make the "effective" head tube on the 2007 153. That is a difference of 14 mm.

But, looking at stack on the 57 I get this:

2006: 569
2007: 547

That is a difference of 22 mm. Therefore, it seems like the theory of the bike shop that the external headset "adds" 23 mm is false. Correct?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You can choose an external headset to suit your stack requirements. A Chris King is 31.4mm, Campagnolo Record is 24.5mm and a Crank Brothers Cobalt is one of the lowest at 20.56mm.

The comparison from 2006 to 2007 is also not as simple as just the HT length - they rationalised the sizing by going to consistent 73 HTA, 78 STA.

They didn't necessarily aim to have the HT 2006 = HT + Headset 2007, perhaps to reflect that the geometry was more suited to steep/low riding.

If they were trying to match then they would have used 177mm for 2006 as it's rare to get a top cover less than 8mm and you have to allow frame/fork clearance. So the 2007 would have needed to be 150mm or so to allow for using a cane creek headset of ~27mm.

Clear as mud?

Got it. Again, thanks for your help!

Interesting change in geometry, which puts me in quite a dilemma. I ride at 78 deg, so, the change to consistent 78 deg STA in the 2007 model is a welcome change.

Unfortunately, I have a goofy build: I am a hair over 6'1" with 34 in insteam, with long legs, monkey arms, and short (for my height) torso. So, if I go with a bike with a stubby head tube, I end up with quite a few spacers. The longer head tube on the 2006 would be better suited for me (I think). I know I could compensate with an external headset and spacers, but, I would rather not.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

If you upload your fit coordinates to your profile or give me the geometry and setup of your Guru I can help clarify your choice.