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Bike Shop question - who's to blame?
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I didn't want to post this in the tri forum, because I'm sure I'd get a bunch of "tell her to learn how to fix her own bike's"... so I figured my lovely womens (and nice mens visiting) could help me out.

A friend was having some issues with her P2C occasionally "yelping"... she thought maybe the chain just needed cleaned. I took it home with me after a ride on Tuesday, cleaned everything, and after pulling the back wheel off, found there's a deep abrasion from wheel rub. She only has around 500 miles on the bike, but the paints gone and there's a noticeable grove from wear. Does she have the right to take it back to the bike shop she purchased it from and raise hell? I'm not sure whether the bike shop is to blame because they did assemble it incorrectly if the tires rubbing that much (she hasn't changed a thing on the bike.. no mechanic skills.. an 'i just pedal' kinda person)... or does the bike shop have the right to say its not their fault because she should have noticed it earlier/known how to adjust the bike...
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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If it were me, I would have taken the bike back to the shop the first time there was something not quite right. She rode 500 miles with funny noises or feeling not right? If so, blame goes to both sides, her for not following up and a little to them for the build. But the majority to her.

clm

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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weird.
My p2 would pick up little pebbles and stuff in the first few rides- and carry them around the wheel, squealing while rubbing against the frame. I found some longer set screws, put them in, adjusted em, put a piece of tape down the spine of the bike to protect it from future accidental rocks getting carried around the wheel, and backed the wheel off just slightly beyond the reccomended distance.
If thats been happening for 500+miles, i would have thought shed notice such a thing. My bike has a few scratches, but none go down through the paint- so im not worried. Sounds like if there is a "deep groove" it must have been doing some serious rubbing- and she would have slowed signficantly because of it. Worth a shot taking it back and asking whats up... but raising hell? I think she should have gotten curious about this way sooner- regardless if they set it up a little too close or not, the rider shares some responsibility in common sense things like "my bike probably shouldnt be making that noise- i'll check it out" and not "mybike shouldnt be making that noise, im gonna put on 500mi then see whats up."

Cant hurt to ask about it, hopefully it isnt down to the CF and its just cosmetic.
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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I wrenched at several shops for quite a few years and I will let you know how I would have handled this incident were it to come into my shop.

first off I would check the set screws to make sure they were working properly as this would be the only avenue for warranty on the frame. If they were in fact functioning properly then I hate to say it your friend is out of luck.

Here is the problem. Its your friends word against the shop that:

1) since the bike left the shop the wheel has never been removed.

2.) since the bike left the shop the set screws have not been adjusted by anyone.

3.) that the original builder at the shop let the bike leave with the rear wheel rubbing.

All three of those are going to be very tough to prove and the only real solution is to replace your friends frame which im going to guess the cost on a P2c frame to the dealer at around $1500 and thats probably low. Its probably closer to $1600 but im going low for your benefit.

SO in effect you will be asking the shop to eat $1500 on something your friend should have probably noticed. If she is really worried about it I would have the shop check the frame. They will probably say its mostly cosmetic and that she will be fine.

Another option would be to say your feel the shop was in error and that you dont expect them to replace the frame but she would like to be able to buy a replacement frame at cost. I can see a shop doing that to keep a customer happy and then swapping the bike parts for free. Your friend could then e-bay the frame or put it up here for sale and get most of her money back.

However I would not take the raise hell route as I think the cost is too major for the shop to eat. Most LBS are running on a very thin profit margin and just giving her a new frame could very easily kill a shops day.

________________________________________________

God's in his heaven, alls right with the world -Nerv
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [brikins13] [ In reply to ]
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Thats what I figured - she can inquire, but the bike shop most likely won't be taking much blame. To her defense (and to clarify from my poor story telling skills), it just recently started making the noises during the last 2 rides, both were over 70 miles... A good deal of our long rides have been in the rain lately, so I think the additional lubrication from the water prevented any noises while the tire slowly wore against the frame. I adjusted the screws so it isn't going to rub anymore. It is down to the carbon fiber, unfortunately... I double checked with my P2C to make sure that there wasn't a deeper groove at the bottom that I'd never noticed before, and mine is flat, hers is indented.

I just wasn't sure what others thought. I personally feel if you're going to buy an expensive bike you should know how to care for it, but I'm sure thats not everyones view. :)
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [suparuki] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the info. You raise some very good points. :) I hadn't really stopped to think about what she might be asking the shop to do to remedy the situation (I do almost all of my wrenching, so I take blame for anything I screw up). I'll let her know that it might be an option to try to negotiate buying at cost if she really wants to replace the frame.
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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Get on google talk or fb... I had a similar problem with my P2 and I can tell you what the story was.


______________________________________
I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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Glad to help. I kinda assumed the replacment b/c when I worked at shops you could just tell when people walked in. They were pissed and they wanted satisfaction and that in 99% of the cases meant - Replace it for free. I really think if you were to come in there calm and collected asking to speak to the owner or manager on duty and stated your case as well as how to make it ok. Frame at cost +freight (cant forget freight) and swapping of parts for free. 90% of shop owners will agree to that. Mostly b/c thats a 4-5 hour job for one wrench and that is only going to cost the shop around 40-50 bucks. Much easier to swallow since the guy is going to be expecting you to say you want the frame replaced for free. ANNDD if you really want them to agree to it say you will pay for new cables. That little statement will cost your friend about 8 bucks and make the mechanics life so much easier.

Just some thoughts.

cheers!

________________________________________________

God's in his heaven, alls right with the world -Nerv
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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I would go jump some curbs with said bike until frame breaks and then demand a replacement frame at no charge.
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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Another problem aside from what's already been said is that rather than taking it back to the bike shop for investigation, she gave it to you - a third party, and yet another player in this mess. Now the bike shop has even less inclination to assume responsibility...


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [suparuki] [ In reply to ]
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Spot on, every bit of it. Esp the bit about cables and housing.
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [D!] [ In reply to ]
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Work isn't so fond of being social.. so fb and google are blocked. I'm driving back to Ohio tonight, but I'll be on later and will catch up with you then. :)
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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Will you take my bike home and clean it for me?
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [QRgirl] [ In reply to ]
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Haha, live near DC? :) I'm apparently a freak of nature and love cleaning my bike... and I'm very OCD about it.
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Haha, live near DC? :) I'm apparently a freak of nature and love cleaning my bike... and I'm very OCD about it.

You should hook up with purse - she needs a wife like you. :p


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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It sounds to me like it's going to be hard to asign blame to the shop on this one.

I have a new p2c (that I assembled myself) and I managed to scratch it pretty good during a 50 mile TT last weekend. I had the bike working perfectly in the repair stand but then I topped off the tires and apparently the extra pressure narrowed the gap enough that every little rock that stuck to the tire, squelched it's way along the carbon. It was a rough and rocky road and very unnerving to listen to for the whole ride. Yes that was my fault for putting the wheel too close but my point is that there isn't a lot of tolerance there for minor changes. If at some point she put too much pressure in the tire or if she knocked the wheel a bit out of round it could cause some rubbing.

Yes the wheel was probably installed too close and if it was rubbing the day she rolled it out of the shop, then she should have immediately gone back and asked for help. In this case it sounds like the issue started later in which case it becomes much harder to blame the shop, especially since she ignored the yelping for at least a couple rides.

She might as well go back to the shop and see what they say and I hope it works out well for her. For what it's worth, I used some polishing compound on mine and it buffed out pretty nicely (although it sounds like hers is worse than mine was).

BK (visiting mens ;-)
Last edited by: BK: May 1, 09 10:34
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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I had a similar problem with my p2c. I (and my lbs) adjusted the screws several time and it kept rubbing after a while. We could only assume that road vibrations were causing the screws to move. We ended up adding some small nuts to the screws and problem fixed. I road last weekend with two others on p2cs and they had the same issue. My advice even though you adjusted the screws have your friend watch cause they may move again.

My lbs said they see this issue frequently with cervelos.
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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tell her to learn how to fix her own bike's ;-)
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Re: Bike Shop question - who's to blame? [swimlinz] [ In reply to ]
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Just a quick update - she went in and had her bike inspected at the LBS she purchased from... they contacted Cervelo, took pictures of it, determined that it is structurally safe, and Cervelo agreed to look at it after her ironman race (they asked if she could send it in now, but its her only bike and the turn around time is 3-4 weeks.. which takes her out of some long training).

Thanks for the replies :)
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