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women: what do you want in a bike shop?
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disclaimer: i do not own a bike shop, nor do i work in one.

i am, however, supported by a local bike shop. i chat with the owner about his business every once in a while. just recently, they've gone through an expansion phase and have moved to a location with a lot more floor space.

i'm also good friends with some women who are into the tri scene. one thing i hear about often is that our local bike shops do not tailor to their needs at all. these are women who are willing to drop $200 on a pair of super sweet cycling shorts. but they can't, because bike shops only carry $70-$90 items.

complicating this fact is that they all have different likes or dislikes when it comes to saddles, bike shorts, tri/cycling jerseys, etc. etc. while we men can *at least* tolerate riding in any high end set of cycling shorts (descente, sugoi, assos, craft, pearl izumi - WHATEVER), some of the women i speak with have horror stories of buying high end women's shorts or saddles from well-established companies that give them serious chafing in the crotch, on their breasts, or even on their back (yes, on their back!). it's not that these companies make lousy products, it's just that these women are not built for these particular products.

now, the owner of this bike shop has mused recently that he's thinking of carrying some women's stuff. apart from a tiny, thin selection of women's clothing, he hasn't ever made a move. so here i am - i thought i'd see if i could find out some information that would help him.

so i want to know what women would want to see in a bike shop. it seems somewhat clear to me that they have service needs (yes, needs) that men don't when it comes to the process of purchasing equipment.

next, and kind of pursuant to that, two things jump out at me:

-women need a wide selection of saddles, tri/cycling shorts, tri/cycling jerseys, etc. i'm thinking something like 15 brands.
-while this is not possible with clothing due to health reasons, women need to be allowed to try out a saddle for a week to see if it works for them. you could do this with men, too, actually (same with aerobars, i'd think, too - though elbow pads might need to be replaced!).

the problem with all this is that it would be extremely expensive for a bike shop to keep a fair bit of inventory on hand. luckily, my lbs has suppliers who will ship stuff in 24-48 hours, depending on the time of day that he places an order at. they accept small orders, too - i.e. 1 single piece of equipment like some aerobars or a saddle or whatever.

so, i guess a question related to this -

if you had the choice to try out equipment and then purchase it, but have to wait, say, 2 days (plus a return trip to the shop), would you do it?

anything else you can think of, please bring it up. if you want to, feel free to list some of the manufacturers that you use. even just having a bunch of women list manufacturers they like might show some trends that are not evident (i know, there are threads about "favourite saddle" or "favourite cycling short" - i'm not asking for reasons why, just maybe a manufacturer plus what product(s) of theirs that you like). hopefully some useful stuff comes out of this thread. perhaps bike shop owners at large (and not just me!) will take a gander at some of the useful stuff and can improve their offerings for you.
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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Warning! Long response!

Interesting question. I've about given up finding clothes or shoes at the LBS -- they don't carry bibs for women, the jersey selection is meager at best, and if they carry women's shoes, they (1) don't carry the higher-end road shoes and/or (2) don't have more than one or two sizes in stock. If I stumble on something, fabulous! If not, well, I'm happy to find a pair of socks in size small! (That said, the LBS can order anything I want -- but I have to know what it is ... and I have to wait. AND make another trip to the shop to pick it up, which can be annoying when my time is ever more precious.)

I'm not sure men don't have a lot of the same issues with clothing and saddles that women have -- some items just don't work. Unfortunately, the (lack of) selection at the LBS for women's gear means that if you buy at the LBS, you buy the one thing that there, as opposed to getting to try 3 or 4 options at the store.

I don't have a problem with saddle selection -- I ride an SLR on both my road and TT bike, and if there's a saddle an LBS is going to have, it's likely to be the SLR (if only because it's the BEST SADDLE IN THE WORLD).

Now, to answer your question ... I have a pretty good idea of what works for me now. And I'm willing to tolerate the "not perfect" pair of shorts or a jersey that doesn't look great if I screw up a selection. That said, when I was first started navigating the cycling clothing universe, it was very confusing, especially because most mfrs/shops didn't have an online presence at that point. So I was at the mercy of what the LBS had or could suggest and order for me. At that point, such an option would have been nice. (Of course, I didn't know then what a really good pair of shorts felt like, so how would I have known that there was something better out there?)

So here's what I buy:

Assos and PI bibs (and I'll try any bib mfr at least once, if only because I know that bibs for women don't sell well, and a mfr could stop making them tomorrow! And I'm kind of like Leona Helmsley with bibs -- when I find a pair I like, I buy tons of them.)
Swobo baggy shorts and liners (awesome for bike commuting!)
Twin 6 jerseys
Castelli full-zip jerseys (mens) -- they come in bright, easy-to-see colors. They don't look that great, but people see you! Also good for commuting.
Jerseys that aren't garish and don't have hideous designs (no paisley, please!) Performance-brand jerseys are good for this. They're just ... jerseys, nothing special about them.
Sidi shoes (I've yet to walk into a shop that had women's 38 in stock!)
SLR saddles
PI and Suguoi tights
Craft and Defeet socks

I'd guess that most women find two or three (or four or five) brands that work well for them and stick to those mfrs ... because they work well for them. And I've never seen an LBS that carried 15 brands of shorts or jerseys or what have you. I think asking for that many different brands, plus a decent range of sizes, PLUS more than one item per brand per size is asking an awful lot. That said, wishin' ain't gettin', so you may as well ask!

... and you realize you haven't even brought up the most frustrating thing about being a relatively small cyclist -- the LBS NEVER has a bike on the floor in my size! I see these posts about "riding lots of bikes to see which one you like best," and I want to scream in irritation!!! (rant off, but just once I'd like to walk into a shop, try a bike, and walk out with it. Just once.)
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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What I want is a store that will spend time with me, making sure I am fit right for a FEMALE and not just an athlete. I want selection on bikes, sizes, clothing, shoes, nutrition, etc. I want to be able to trust my bike with anyone there...no one is sketchy or gives the creepy crawlies that some men give women (ask around, it's the 6th sense, some men just give us the heebie jeebies and we know to get outta dodge). I like that our shops are friendly...they let me bring my dog in. One shop spent almost 3 hours after closing working on getting the right hydration set up for me the week before my IM b/c all you know what broke loose and we couldn't find the right seat bag. I like that they are personable. Some of our bike shops do winter indoor trainer rides as groups, Tour de France watch parties, etc, etc. I like that they give back to the community in ways other than just providing bikes and merchandise.

Guess I'm kinda spoiled. We've got 4 lbs in town, one with 4 locations, 2 with 2 locations; one with 1 location. I frequent 2 of them. My bike is a Specialized, and that comes from one store that I really like, but the rest of my "stuff" comes from the one with 4 locations.

4 location store: they all carry a bunch of women's stuff and each are more specified to somethings (one is tri and road; one is family; one more mountain bike)- they all carry all, but one carries more of one type than the other. ALSO, they have great clothing selection for women, at least, as far as I've seen, but what is nicer is that ANYTHING I want they will order, and I mean ANYTHING!

3 of the shops are "sponsors" of our local tri club and offer discounts; the 4th one may, but I don't frequent them as they are kinda out of the way for where my house is and where I train, and they are almost specifically "roadie" and some of the people who frequent there (not the employees, they are nice!) are snotty to triathletes.

For a medium sized city, we're very fortunate. They do stuff like women's rides, women's biking clinics, donating bikes to kids tri programs. We've also got a FANTASTIC local running specialty store with 3 locations. The owner of which has been a giant influence in the birth or rather rebirth of the running community here. Weekly runs on Wednesday nights from the main location that will be about 500 people in the next 2 weeks. Of course, I am biased as my hubby works part time there and all 3 owners are some of our closest friends....but it is GREAT anyway!

Names of the stores (If you're in Birmingham and need something)

Cahaba Cycles and Homewood Cycle and Fitness (4 locations) (http://www.cahabacycles.com)
Bob's Bikes (http://www.bobs-bikes.com)
Bike Link (http://www.bikelinkbham.com)
Birmingham Bicycle Company (http://www.bhambicycle.com)

The Trak Shak (http://www.trakshak.com)



Tiger for Life -- War Eagle!

Last edited by: KT-tri: Mar 26, 08 6:04
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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at my LBS, which i feel is very womens friendly, most women buy 2 saddles. The Fizik Vitesse; Terry Butterfly. they "rent" saddles for the womens, and do have about 8-12 different saddles; this has been helpful to find the right one for most of the womens.

pearl izumi is their best selling womens shorts--for tri and cycling.

Cannondale makes really nice womens clothing, and sells well at my LBS (they also sell Cannondale bikes, so that works well, not sure if your LBS has Cannondale, but that could be a factor).

Pearl Izumi jersies for tri and cycling. also cute colors with some patterns.

i think it helps to have a womans help pick out inventory.
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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It is hard because women are pretty fickle. The range of products to satisfy the serious & non-serious; pink & non-pink; cutesy & non-cutsey; high end & "OMG, shorts are $60?!";.... is too large for any shop to carry. I say all this because I am a woman and I work in a bike shop and am asked constantly "What should we get in here for women? What do they want?" and it's so hard to say. I'm not representative of the typical woman that walks in our door. Since we can't carry it all I think the best bet is to shoot for the most common type of woman that comes in. THAT is generally the recreational rider and the woman that is just getting into tris and wants cycling and tri clothes that give decent coverage (bike shorts with baggies over them seem to have a big appeal) and don't cost an arm and a leg. Many of them don't even buy jerseys. They wear their tri clothes or basic wrkt apparel. Maybe they'll buy shorts. Maybe they'll look at the tri stuff and cringe and say "Maybe when I've lost xx pounds." I guess the more serious women know what they want and just order on-line. That's what I do now.

But when I started out, I didn't know what Assos was and would never spend that kind of dough. But, I knew there was better than Dicks Sporting Goods and hoped that the bike shops would carry that "better" stuff".

Not sure if that helps. I guess the 1st question your LBS has to ask is "What type of woman shops here?" and then "Who do I want to market to?".
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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I just bought a new bike recently. I checked 4 or 5 local stores before choosing one. When I found the right store, I decided that I would put my trust in the proprietor rather than shop around for the best deal possible. I chose the particular shop because the owner showed integrity, pride in his work and his staff, and listened carefully to my needs. Rather than sell me a bike off the floor, he took down my info and told me he would look for a good value for me at a show he was about to attend. Everyone in the shop shares info without coming across as condescending.

In this particular shop, I doubt they would get into selling clothing, especially high end stuff. When I am browsing clothing in a bike shop, I often feel like the staff is staring at me and/or pressuring me to buy. I'd like to feel some freedom to browse, if that makes sense. Almost all of my bike clothing purchases have been made online.
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [racoon] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
It is hard because women are pretty fickle. The range of products to satisfy the serious & non-serious; pink & non-pink; cutesy & non-cutsey; high end & "OMG, shorts are $60?!";.... is too large for any shop to carry. I say all this because I am a woman and I work in a bike shop and am asked constantly "What should we get in here for women? What do they want?" and it's so hard to say. I'm not representative of the typical woman that walks in our door. Since we can't carry it all I think the best bet is to shoot for the most common type of woman that comes in. THAT is generally the recreational rider and the woman that is just getting into tris and wants cycling and tri clothes that give decent coverage (bike shorts with baggies over them seem to have a big appeal) and don't cost an arm and a leg. Many of them don't even buy jerseys. They wear their tri clothes or basic wrkt apparel. Maybe they'll buy shorts. Maybe they'll look at the tri stuff and cringe and say "Maybe when I've lost xx pounds." I guess the more serious women know what they want and just order on-line. That's what I do now.

But when I started out, I didn't know what Assos was and would never spend that kind of dough. But, I knew there was better than Dicks Sporting Goods and hoped that the bike shops would carry that "better" stuff".

Not sure if that helps. I guess the 1st question your LBS has to ask is "What type of woman shops here?" and then "Who do I want to market to?".
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [WeRide] [ In reply to ]
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The only real thing I want in a bike shop is a muted testosterone level and a little whimsy. Gimme an attentive environment, and I'll be your customer for life. (right Mark?)
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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Hot mechanics :)

Seriously..... I look for several things in a LBS. Our local bike stores suck.

1) A knowledgeable staff that I trust to work on my bike
2) A pleasant staff that doesn't make me feel dumb because I am a girl or because I ask questions
3) I am set on the brands that I use, gels, clothes, shoes, saddle ect. and only replace what I have when it is worn out. I probably would not consider changing brands and if the local store is out of stock or doesn't carry what I am looking for I have no problem ordering it online and waiting 2-3 days to get it. You may want to suggest to your sponsor that he look into what people in his area are using and carry those brands. Also, if he has the ability to special order stuff he needs to let the locals know that. Personally if I am going to have to order what I need from online and wait anyway, I would rather spend my money locally and order from the LBS.

To answer your question about trying equipment out and then paying for it. The more expensive the item is the more willing I would be to wait a couple days to try it out and make the additional trip to the store. Actually I would probably be more willing to try out(ending up with me buying it) a product if I knew I had the option to experiment with it before committing to buying it.

http://www.rdsupplier.com "making race directing easier"
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [southerngal] [ In reply to ]
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I am fortunate to live where a big tri store is located. There are a couple of stores in between my home and their shop, but I have no qualms about passing the others to get to mine, and here's why:

There seem to be as many women working there as men, which means to me I can ask one of them about a product and get a female perspective.
The bike guys are very helpful, and don't treat me like anything other than a fellow triathlete
The selection is wide enough for women as far as clothes, etc..., and the wearhouse is in the back of the store
They sponsor my tri club and give us discounts, even keep the store open before and after our meetings in case we need to spend some dough

I was once on a ride on the other side of town and flatted 2 times, the second one I put the tube in poorly and it started coming out the side of the rim... so I stopped at an LBS to get them to help me. After 2 minutes and reinflating my tire, they charged me. While I'm not against paying for a service, I clearly remembered the time I went to my store with new tires that I was failing at putting on for some reason. One of the bike guys spent about 20 minutes putting them on and showing me the reason I couldn't get them on myself. He then put them on my bike and sent me on my way, refusing to charge me. Good customer service = customer for life, and yes, I've spent A LOT of money there (new Guru Crono!!)

I don't mind waiting for equipment, or returning to the store, esp for higher end stuff.

Sorry this was long, but the tri ladies I know are more than willing to put down some cash for good stuff... we're definitely an untapped financial windfall





Come crawling faster
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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My advice would be to take a look at http://www.teamestrogen.com and to browse the forums there. This seems to be something of a gathering spot for women cyclists, recreational, touring, competitive, just starting out, etc. There is endless discussion there of favorite clothing, saddles, etc. You might be surprised (or not) that the items the women prefer seem to differ significantly from the ones that men might prefer (or that are more common in LBS's).

Women are a very, very fast-growing market in cycling. I'm surprised more LBS's have not learned to cater to this. Here in the Bay Area I generally feel very well treated in the LBS's (they are used to women cyclists), but most of them, for some reason, have not followed through so much in the clothing or even in the saddle department, content to stick with Terry saddles, for instance (which I hate). If I want something to ride in, I usually head over to the bargain bins at Sports Basement, which I know will at least have a large selection, if not the high-end stuff.

Women like to rave about the highly functional and/or cute stuff they find in a store. If your friend's store started catering to women's needs, I think word would get around like wildfire and pretty soon you'd be known as "the local store to go to for women's cycling stuff." I'm amazed that more stores haven't tried this.
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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Like previously mentioned- cute boys to work on my bike, AND not laugh to hysterically at me when I do really stupid things like over-inflate my mnt bike tire to the point it actually explodes. Treat me well and you have my loyalty as a customer.

They should know the products they sell. Not just carry the women's specific saddles, but be able to make a rec on which might be right for a particular person.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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I want a place that has bathrooms and a big parking lot so that I can arrange to meet my friends there for a long ride. Afterward, we'll probably come in, browse, buy a drink, and check out the gear.

If it's social + functional, I think you have a goldmine. If you have a great service dept on top of that, perfection.
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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I usually look for bike shops that sponsor local teams/races/events. My favorite LBS (and tri club sponsor) hosts BYOB (bring your own bike) repair classes. I loved these classes, and they were really easy to follow along. I also like that they're knowledgeable in areas other than just bikes - they were able to recommend different nutrition options for me.

I'll agree with what most of the other people have said - good customer service is key. I refuse to go back to some bike stores because they treated me horribly.
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [austin79] [ In reply to ]
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Austin79, I agree with you! I took a women's mountain bike clinic that started and ended at a bike shop in Bend, OR. After the clinic the ladies walked into the shop that had stocked the latest tri and cycling gear for women in bright colors. The prices were through the roof but the women burned holes in their credit cards buying it up. A well stocked shop and women who work out and competitively shop is deadly combo!
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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My wife and I go to this one particular bike shop even though it's a ways from where we live. She particularly likes it because there is a woman co-owner that is every bit as knowlegeable about bikes as any man, and much more so with women's riding issues.
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [southerngal] [ In reply to ]
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ok, i didn't want to say it earlier, but...you've inspired me to say more. :)

my LBS spoils me and my bike. the smallest thing, they will do it for me and never bat an eye. also they never make fun of me because i didn't want to do anything mechanical on my bike. they just did the work, and i always felt "hooked up" that these guys would take care of anything no matter how big or how small. my LBS--Campus Cyclery in Cincinnati--bends over backwards. they ask lots of questions and since i trust them, they help me make decisions. it has ben *awesome*.

i think this service is #1, and now basically i buy most of my stuff there and even sponsored their cycling team for years (didn't this year only because i'm trying to transition out of one of my businesses that sponsored them). so i think my biggest advice is build the relationship first, then everything goes from there.

also knowing the demographic of buyer is critical to know. who is the target and what do they need?
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [kittycat] [ In reply to ]
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the answers so far have been awesome, and CERTAINLY not too long. quite frankly, i am enjoying reading these posts. make them longer if you feel like it.

i don't have time tonight to do an extensive (exam tomorrow), but i've taken a look at team estrogen's forum and browsed through a couple of threads on apparel in particular. definitely shed more light on things!

thanks for the replies... if anyone else out there wants to say stuff, PLEASE do :) reading slowtwitch a good way to take a break from studying.
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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I love love love my LBS. They don't have a huge selection of stuff but the service is incredible. I bought my bike through them and even since then they know my name and are happy to see me when I walk in. My first tune up with them was a month ago and I was stunned at how clean and smooth it was when they were done. One of the owners is a woman in her 50s that isn't super fit but loves her bike. The mechanics are all young guys who will do silly stuff like cut the excess of my seat post and find a replacement nut for my seat that I lost when I went to training camp. They will order whatever I want if they don't have it in. Always patient, always greet me when I walk in the door and always let me know how many other Orbea Divas they've sold so I know to watch for them on the road.

I used to go to another shop where I bought my first bike but they no longer know me because of a turnover in staff. They have a big selection but don't seem to have any interest in helping me when I walk in the door. The last tune up I got from them was terrible. I don't even recognize anyone in there anymore. I wouldn't buy a bike from them at all.

If I could add something to my LBS I'd second what was previously mentioned about bathrooms, etc. I'd love to be able to meet people there to start a ride and finish up, do a little shopping for cute socks (my weakness) then walk to the local coffee shop. Maintenance classes and product/manufacturer nights would be cool too. Kind of like a trunk show. Make it the center of a cycling club.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: women: what do you want in a bike shop? [tegra] [ In reply to ]
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yes, i would be willing to wait/go back to the store to try stuff out. I am fortunate that through sponsors and lots of friends/connections I rarely pay full price for anything tri related, and grumble to myself when i don't get more than 25% off. That being said, I really care about my equiptment and have been frustrated with the fact that i am on my second saddle, third pair of aerobars, and fourth pair of bike shorts, to find what i like. Trying stuff out would be a great idea. My LBS here has a number of "try out" saddles - ones they've purchased that people test in the store, and can take for a ride at home. if the person wants to buy it, they return the tester and get a new one in the box. it seems to work pretty well.

As for what bike shops should carry: selection selection selection!!! the tricky thing about women is that not only are there lots of body types to accomodate, but women are also pickier about what their clothing looks like. some women want to look "hard-core" and some want to look cute and wear pink and flowers.

I think it is imporant, for image as well as profit, for bike shops to carry AT LEAST one model of a high end version of a product (aka top of the line sidi women's shoes, high end craft or assos shorts, etc) It shows that the shop takes women cyclists seriously. It is frustrating to walk into a shop and be told that "these $70 shorts should be fine" when i have done enough 5 hour rides to know that they won't be fine at all!

Also, I have worked in a bike shop myself, and can safely say those places need more female employees. guys (especially bike shop guys), know nothing about sports bra support, female anatomy issues that arise with bike shorts and seats, and how to help women make the call as to when to buy women's spectific products, and when not to. bike shops can be intimidating to some women, and untill there is a female face or two in there, and a bona fide section for them (as in every other store in existence unless it is a mens store or womens store) bike shops are going to continue to fail to meet the needs of the quickly growing female cyclist population.

end rant!



"What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my ass for six hours a day. What are YOU on?" - Lance Armstrong
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