"More is more" first test

Jun 17, 07 4:27

Post #1 of 15 (3559 views)

So I finally did my first tri (~700yd/14.7mi/3.1mi) of the year yesterday. I did this race last year, and the bike/run courses and conditions were pretty much the same as last year. Some differences:

2006: did Eagleman the week before; averaged ~15mi/week running the previous 5 months
2007: got ~5hrs sleep after packing and moving a bunch of stuff to our new house; swim was about 150yds longer; probably averaged more like 25mi/week, mostly easy; only biked perhaps 600-700 miles total in 2007; only ran ~10mi/week the last 3 weeks.

Short story: bike was :29 slower, run was :34 faster. I felt very good on the run (at least until the last 2 minutes), despite having pushed the bike and not having done much hard biking this season. So, at age 49, I think I can get faster.

Consistency: 7th fastest swim, 9th fastest bike, 8th fastest run, 6th overall. http://www.lin-mark.com/tgtrioof07.txt (don't believe the bike speeds: distance was a little under 15mi, not the claimed 16). The park says the the trail we ran on is 3.1 miles, but who knows.

One gripe about this race (and only one) and others around here: I really don't need another mug that says "Award Winner". As I had some time commitments (and a 1:45hr drive ahead of me), I debated sticking around for awards (it takes some time to get to us old AGers awards), but figured it would be a bit disrespectful to bail. It was nice to shake the hands of the 2nd and 3rd placers, and I like Mark Toretsky. Still, there are a couple of awards that I've gotten that are distinctive enough to be kept visible (like the medal they gave at the NJ Triathlon which sits on my desk at work, or the trophies at the Monmouth Sprint race), but this one will disappear, too.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 17, 07 4:48

Post #2 of 15 (3525 views)

Great race!

But I'm a bit confused about the more is more statement.

only biked perhaps 600-700 miles total in 2007; only ran ~10mi/week the last 3 weeks.

Is that your "more" or was last year your "more"?

I'm really not being a pain, just confused about what your test was.

Jodi

Re: "More is more" first test [Jodi] [ In reply to ]

Jun 17, 07 4:55

Post #3 of 15 (3515 views)

In Reply To:

Great race!

But I'm a bit confused about the more is more statement.

only biked perhaps 600-700 miles total in 2007; only ran ~10mi/week the last 3 weeks.

Is that your "more" or was last year your "more"?

I'm really not being a pain, just confused about what your test was.

Jodi

"More is more" refers to more running this year, and by running slower, I was able to increase my training load in running. I haven't biked very much at all this year. There seems to be some carryover from the run training to the bike, which surprised me.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 17, 07 4:57

Post #4 of 15 (3507 views)

Oh, ok!

I'm testing the reverse- a shitload of biking without running. We'll see how good the crossover is in the opposite direction!

:-)

Jodi

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 17, 07 5:29

Post #5 of 15 (3465 views)

Ken, congratulations on your race and your new house. I have to agree with you about the awards. There is usually too long a wait, too long a drive home and too much to do to wait around. After almost 30 years as a runner and 15 in triathlon, I have only held on to 1 or 2 awards anyway. They are either given or thrown away. I usually just check the results, or if they are not ready on time, I'll load up the truck and go home and check them online. Some races, like the March Madness Biathlon in Central Park get the awards going right away, but most times it just takes too long.

Please people, don't take offense, I just think it's about the racing not the awards.

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Re: "More is more" first test [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

Jun 17, 07 6:55

Post #6 of 15 (3396 views)

In Reply To:

[/quote]Please people, don't take offense, I just think it's about the racing not the awards.

In Reply To:

[/quote]good point
it might just be about the training at 55

dirt/Thom/cheyou

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 17, 07 8:46

Post #7 of 15 (3309 views)

Nice race Kenny boy!

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 17, 07 15:08

Post #8 of 15 (3161 views)

Nice work, Ken. Musta been all those huge squat sets.

<< I haven't biked very much at all this year. There seems to be some carryover from the run training to the bike, which surprised me. >>

Roger that. I know that all you ever hear is that specificity rules, and there's zero carryover from one sport to another, but I'll be damned if the same thing didn't happen to me this year.
My bike volume is running well under 40% less than last year (probably closer to half the volume from this point going forward, since I started to really ramp up the long rides in June and early July last year for IMLP, whereas this year I don't hafta bother with that silliness), yet my bike fitness is the same as or greater than last year.
Go figger. (Not that I'm complainin'!)

I upped my running from 28 to 40 mpw, and got the resultant improvement in my running. Actually, even more than I expected, the running got much better.
That the bike fitness didn't go away (on what was a bare bones bike 'maintenance' program, at best) kinda blew my mind. In a good way.

float , hammer , and jog

Re: "More is more" first test [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]

Jun 17, 07 15:23

Post #9 of 15 (3138 views)

I know the sample size is 1, and it is about as scientific as Paris Hilton is intelligent, but I have always maintained for me that swimming helps my swimming, biking helps my biking, but running helps all three. Not saying I don't train the other two, I do, but if I were to put that little extra time somewhere, I wuold get the greatest benefit from running more.

Again that is just me, and your results may vary.

"I can endure more pain than anyone you've ever met. That's why I can beat anyone I've ever met." Steve Prefontaine, Without Limits

Re: "More is more" first test [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]

Jun 18, 07 4:54

Post #10 of 15 (2964 views)

me too, n=3!

I'm keeping my mpw at 20-25 for the rest of the year though, and getting more time at threshold. I would like to hit 40mpw during the next offseason.

Longest bike, aside from 2 races, has been a 60' spinervals.

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 18, 07 8:24

Post #11 of 15 (2844 views)

Ken, great to see that running a bit mare at lower intensity is paying off!

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 18, 07 11:15

Post #12 of 15 (2747 views)

Glad to hear about the improvement Ken. Had a couple of tests myself of the more-is-more training philosophy pertaining to running this season - running is my weakness. I can't point to a single race improvement like you, since the Austin CapTexTri was cancelled and the others I've done were either new, new to me, or changed from the previous year.

My run paces last year were ~6:30/mi for sprint and 7:10-7:30/mi for Olympic runs, depending on temperature in Texas.

After ~6 months of 6-7 day a week running, rarely less than 30 mi/wk, max of 52 mi. I'm now down to ~6:20 for sprints(2 tests) and ~6:40 (1 test) for olympic runs. I'm 45, this is my 3rd year of tris. My weight is pretty much identical year-to-year. Funny thing, the runs were off of faster bike splits too, though my biking is substantially less than last year.

I was running ~15-20 mi/wk for ~2 years before starting tri's, and maybe a bit more my firt two years of tri's. Runs mostly at one speed and no "long" run (~8 mi longest). I had a few tendonitis and ITB problems during this time.

Now I have 4 speeds, and do most of my running volume on ~7:45 - 8:30 pace and was doing 120-140 min. long runs during the winter. Not a single running injury. Also did an interval set ~1x week the last couple of months (4x800m) using Daniels tables, never did intervals before.

For me, its all about the swim and run.

------------------------------------------------------------
some days you're the windshield some days the bug

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 18, 07 11:22

Post #13 of 15 (2743 views)

I'd say your times weren't significantly different. What I find interesting is the relatively big increase in the amount of run training without affecting your bike split. That's something I worry about while contemplating more running. If you're juggling a fixed amount time training something's got to give timewise and biking takes up so much time it's the most likely candidate to sacrifice. So far I've only sacrificed the weight training.

I'll be interesting see how it affects a race with a longer bike. Good luck and great race (both '06 and '07).

Jim_n_La
...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but only until it kills you - Cousin Elwood

Re: "More is more" first test [Jim_n_La] [ In reply to ]

Jun 18, 07 11:54

Post #14 of 15 (2699 views)

In Reply To:

If you're juggling a fixed amount time training something's got to give timewise and biking takes up so much time it's the most likely candidate to sacrifice. So far I've only sacrificed the weight training.

Well, you are already ahead of the game!

One way I added some nearly-free running miles was to hit the treadmill after my swim, usually for 1.5-3 miles, thrice weekly. I'm already wet and at the gym, so why waste a shower?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: "More is more" first test [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jun 18, 07 12:08

Post #15 of 15 (2665 views)

Good race. Just not quite sure if realistically one can make any conclusions about your times and training from these results.

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