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Re: MAF Test [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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I do the MAF test on a treadmill and the conditions are very consistent. It is a nice test to see gains in fitness without having to go "all out" in the test. I have seen a 4 minute drop in my test over the last 11 months at a 141 HR.
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Re: MAF Test [almost tri-ing] [ In reply to ]
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How do you do the MAF test on a treadmill. Do you constantly have one hand near the speed button and then up or down the speed as your heartrate flucuates? At least on a track, you can slow down and speed up as your HR moves up and down from the target rate.

Paulo, thanks, I just wanted to get a guage for what the VT point is. So traditionally, this would be the point below people run a marathon (ie, they can carry out a conversation...at least for the first half...)
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Re: MAF Test [shaner] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Is there an aerobic function test that is easy to do without getting a VO2 test done?

Enter a 10k or half marathon on a couple days rest. Race as hard as you can. Track progression over time.

Racing is the only foolproof testing.
Last edited by: Ashburn: Dec 11, 06 17:11
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Re: MAF Test [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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You don't have to adjust the speed constantly on a treadmill. During your warmup you will get an idea of what pace keeps your HR where you want it. It's actually very easy, once you are going at the right pace, you will only have to adjust the speed a little every now and then. In addition, I like the tread because if you wear a Polar HR strap the treadmill screens shows your HR at all times right in front of you. I would think it would be harder to do the test on a track as you would have to look down at your watch?
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Re: MAF Test [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
...
You can also do a step protocol similar to a Conconi test. The only difference is that instead of looking for the HR deflection, which is meaningless, you carefully monitor your breathing in order to detect the ventilatory threshold (VT). The VT is NOT the AeT and it correlates very well with the usual measurements for "lactate threshold" (LT, AT, MLSS, etc). With this test you can find a decent approximation of your threshold HR and check for improvement in the speed at which you reach VT, even though this speed is not your steady-state VT speed.

Paulo, VT speed/power is more like LT or MLSS/IAT/OBLA speed/power ?

Thanks,

Ale Martinez
www.amtriathlon.com
Last edited by: amartinez: Dec 11, 06 18:38
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Re: MAF Test [amartinez] [ In reply to ]
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More on the MLSS/IAT/OBLA ballpark, yes :-)
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Re: MAF Test [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Just wanted to give an update on this subject. Today I did another MAF Test and now I run 6:46 average at the same 148bpm HR. I have improved over the past 2 1/2 months by almost 20 seconds per mile at my aerobic zone 3. Base building at it's best.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: MAF Test [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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And that proves what?
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Re: MAF Test [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know.....that even considering all the elemental variables involved with HR training that aerobic base training can improve your efficiency? Or that you are just a obnoxiuos in the exterme? ;)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: MAF Test [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I don't know...
Exactly my point.
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Re: MAF Test [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Couldn't agree more, been doing them for 4 years now. Although I feel that 3 miles is way too short to gauge any cardiac drift. I do one every two week. In the 3 week on 1 week recovery, I time it so that one falls right in week 2 to judge overtraining and the other during a recovery week to determine gain.

Test are ran on an indoor track. 10 minute warmup and a 5 mile run at a heart rate of 152. Each mile get the split and then total time for run.


Week M1 M2 M3 M4 M5 Total
01/11/07 W2 7:33 @ 151 7:39 @ 152 7:42 @ 151 7:48 @ 152 7:45 @ 151 38:29:00
01/25/07 W4 7:14 @ 151 7:19 @ 151 7:21 @ 152 7:21 @ 152 7:22 @ 152 36:40:00
02/08/07 W2 6:59 @ 151 6:58 @ 151 7:00 @ 152 7:04 @ 152 7:06 @ 152 35:09:20
02/22/07 W4 6:54 @ 152 6:59 @ 152 6:58 @ 151 7:01 @ 152 7:01 @ 152 34:55:00
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Re: MAF Test [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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And this test is a great tool to gauge progress because it uses HR to measure intensity. As we know, HR is an excellent tool for testing, since it is not affected by factors like temperature, humidity, fatigue state, hydration, etc.

**heavy sarcasm off**

-
Paulo Sousa

Could one argue that the above factors impact "performance"?
Why can't these same factors impact other gauges used to measure performance? What is it about HR that makes it apparently the least reliable?


"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt
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Re: MAF Test [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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LOL! Sorry I'm not one of your fawning sycophants around here, though I do think you know you industry very well. Have you ever considered just being more constructive rather than hostile towrds people around here? I'm sure you treat your athletes better. Also, considering that in my first year in this sport I managed to make All American, run a sub 3 hour marathon, and finsh my first Half Iron race 4 min behind Desert Dude and placed 3rd in my AG, maybe I'm not as clueless as you think. But it's the internet and I really could care less! :)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: MAF Test [moneydog59] [ In reply to ]
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"Could one argue that the above factors impact "performance"? "

You can argue, but it's tough to find someone to argue with.

"Why can't these same factors impact other gauges used to measure performance? "

They do, but is a different way. See my next reply.

"What is it about HR that makes it apparently the least reliable? "

The fact that it's just a measure of cardiac stress, not actual muscle work intensity.
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Re: MAF Test [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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"Sorry I'm not one of your fawning sycophants around here"

Yet you rescued this thread from the archives of oblivion...

"Have you ever considered just being more constructive rather than hostile towrds people around here?"

I have and realized that I would be repressing my online persona. That would make posting on ST not fun at all.

"in my first year in this sport I managed to make All American, run a sub 3 hour marathon, and finsh my first Half Iron race 4 min behind Desert Dude and placed 3rd in my AG, maybe I'm not as clueless as you think."

Those results say more about your genetic predisposition to endurance sports than if you're clueless or not.
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Re: MAF Test [j3ckyl] [ In reply to ]
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I would be really interested to see your data going back a while further if you have it. Have you really been doing these consistently for 4 years?
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Re: MAF Test [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]"Sorry I'm not one of your fawning sycophants around here"

Yet you rescued this thread from the archives of oblivion...

"Have you ever considered just being more constructive rather than hostile towrds people around here?"

I have and realized that I would be repressing my online persona. That would make posting on ST not fun at all.

"in my first year in this sport I managed to make All American, run a sub 3 hour marathon, and finsh my first Half Iron race 4 min behind Desert Dude and placed 3rd in my AG, maybe I'm not as clueless as you think."

Those results say more about your genetic predisposition to endurance sports than if you're clueless or not.[/reply]

I rescued the thread only because I thought it was interesting, so I am my own sycophant :)
Yes, your argumentative posting are good, no argument there. :)
Yes, you are right, my genetic predisposition is more germaine to those results. My mother used to hold the world record for women age 40-45 at Konain 1986 and 1987. :)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: MAF Test [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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You guys are funny...anyway, pick a number, AeT, MAF, whatever....use that number under similar conditions, when rested. Over time, if your pace gets faster, your training is working. If it is not, you need to change something. As Mark Allen/Gordo/Friel and Paulo would agree...you will eventually plateau and need to change things. Then you repeat the cycle over and over and over. 10 years later, you might be getting closer to fast.

In the end it doesn't matter if you can run 30s or 50s or 3min per mile faster than last year. If you aren't racing faster, it doesn't count.

BB







www.blakebecker.com

Professional Triathlete
Owner of Blake Becker Multisport Coaching LLC / Team BBMC
blakebeck@gmail.com
http://www.teambbmc.com
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Re: MAF Test [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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factors like temperature, humidity, fatigue state, hydration, etc. will not impact the measure of actual muscle work intensity, or is the measure of cardiac stress more volatile to these factors?


"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt
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Re: MAF Test [meatymeat] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]funny my best ever MAF is 12:48 @ 145 bpm.

I suck.[/reply]

3mi in 12.48 at 145bpm?? I didn't know Bekele was posting here...
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Re: MAF Test [MuffinTop] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, only during my base periods though, which typically last 12-16 weeks. When I first started triathlon, someone gave me a copy of Mike Piggs training software which has a built in MAF test. My first year I used this software and then just started doing my own training programs, but have always kept the 5 mile MAF test cause I liked to see the progress.

I have last years numbers in excel, 05' in Polar, and 04' in Pigg. I have been meaning to get them all over to excel anyways. I'll post them when I get them compiled. It's pretty interesting. I recall my first year starting at ~9:30 minute miles and ending at ~8:45. I think 05' I started around ~8:30 and finished at ~ 8:00. Last year I started at ~7:55 and ended at ~7:40. This year has been particularly good. I switched my training program over to a high frequency running program. 7 days of run. 1 LR varying terrain/surface each week, 1 negative incline, 1 postive incline, 1 right at AT, 1 active recovery, 1 water running and 1 brick. For the MAF I just swap the AT Run.


It's been invaluable as far I am concerned. I know Paulo mentions Hydration etc.. etc.., but I do actually preprare slightly for an MAF test. If I do not prepare for example being dehydrated, well that will reflect in the test. Hell I think I got a good enough feel for this test that I think I can determine quite a lot regarding impact from hydration, nutrition, sleep, overtraining, and even differences in shoes.
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Re: MAF Test [moneydog59] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
factors like temperature, humidity, fatigue state, hydration, etc. will not impact the measure of actual muscle work intensity, or is the measure of cardiac stress more volatile to these factors?
Those factors do impact actual muscle work intensity, but the way they impact cardiac stress is not necessarily the same.
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Re: MAF Test [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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'atta boy! Now we have a conversation! Seriously, I have the utmost respect for your knowledge (sycophnat alert!), I just like a good inane internet argument as much as you seem to. :)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: MAF Test [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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If I ran every day at a relatively easy pace, my easy pace gets a little faster every week or 2.

No need for fancy terms, tests or equipment, just run every day. It seems so simple yet some of you guys make it so hard.



----------------------------------------------------
Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year
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Re: MAF Test [Erik Clark] [ In reply to ]
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But does your race pace get any faster by doing this?
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