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I think Francois nailed it right here... [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Coaching can be one of the best tools in your arsenal, but you have to find a coach that works WITH you. We've all had teachers whom we couldn't understand, who may or may not have been brilliant. We've all also had teachers who somehow managed to present things in a way that we understood, and were able to grasp easily. Likewise with a coach.

Chris Carmichael coached Lance through 4 Tour victories, and after reading Lance's book I'd be surprised if he (Lance) ever left him (Chris). Chris is a great coach. He may be able to take an hour off my IM bike leg, BUT he may also suck as a coach for me (I've never tried the guy, I'm just saying). Peter Reid credited his coach (Julie Anne White) as a major factor in his comeback this year in Hawaii. Again, she may or may not be the right coach for me. But she sure as hell worked for him!

There are a lot of excellent coaches available, but not all of them (or perhaps none of them) will be right for everyone. I have a good idea of who I'd like to coach me when I'm ready for it, but even so he will get grilled a little bit before I commit to his services (only a little because I have a good idea of how he runs his coaching business already, and trust the guy a fair bit by now). I'd expect something similar from him before he decided to take me on as an athlete, and if he didn't, I'd be a little bit disappointed. The coach/athlete relationship should be very open, with a lot of communication beforehand with regard to exactly what is expected going in. Any coach who doesn't ask a potential athlete a LOT of questions prior to accepting him or her is cheating the athlete (although not necessarily on purpose, as in shady business dealings). Any athlete who does not ask a potential coach a LOT of questions prior to signing on is cheating him or herself. The expectations of both parties must be made clear prior to an agreement to work together being made. This is integral for the success of the athlete, and good coaches know this. In fact, all the really good coaches I know talk a fair bit about this in their literature - and I'm sure would not hesitate to turn away a "poor fit" client.

Coaching is an excellent tool, but it remains just that - the athlete still has to be diligent and do the work. Prior to hiring a coach as well as after.


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Re: Coaching - Two thumbs up! [Greg] [ In reply to ]
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Greg, Khai and Francois all make excellent points. One thought I wish to add the the discussion: In the U.S. the only thing you need to call yourself a "coach" is a sign or a business card. Imagine if, tomorrow, you decided you wanted to go into the physical therapy business and just hung up a sign that said "John Smith, Physical Therapist". That is the situation we have in the U.S.with coaching. There is no exhaustive, formalized, acredited academic curriculum at the university level to qualify endurance sports coaches (that I am aware of). This is a huge problem. Good Ironman finishes do not establish someone as having coaching credentials. Coaching an athlete is a massive and serious undertaking- similar to being a physical therapist or even physician's assistant. The preparation, education and credentials for people who want to be coaches should be at least as rigorous. To be a licensed "expert" coach in USA Cycling you have to attend a multi-day clinic. That does not make you an "expert" or a "coach". We need a masters level endurance coaching curriculum that certifies coaches at the graduate level. Anyone else calling themselves a coach would be like me calling myself an M.D.- it would be fraud. Sports academies in European nations have already adopted similar standards. It's about time.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Peter Reid credited his coach (Julie Anne White) as a major factor in his comeback this year in Hawaii. Again, she may or may not be the right coach for me. But she sure as hell worked for him!
As far as I know, and I was coached by JulieAnne White for 2.5 years until recently, JulieAnne never advised Peter Reid on training. As you may know, due to her own experience with losing a good section of her intestines and her various studies in physiology, physical therapy and exercise science, JulieAnne has learned a great deal about how the human body uses food for energy and how it experiences and fights fatigue. Again, as far as I know, she advised Peter on how to get rid of his deep fatigue and straighten out his blood. We've heard a lot by now from Reid about how messed up his entire immune/energy system was prior to his seven-week layoff from exercise. I mention that I was coached by JulieAnne because she told me directly she had advised Peter Reid about his energy issues, and since this thread is on coaching I would be happy to go on the record stating that she was very valuable to me. I just needed a change and need to save a bit of money or I'd still be with her. -David in Taipei
Last edited by: tri_taiwan: Dec 29, 02 5:07
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [tri_taiwan] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah im a coaching convert. I used to believe that i couldnt afford it, or that it I could do just as good of job if I read a book. Also, one of the reasons I quit organized college sports (rowing) was that my coach was a jerk.

I recently realized that if I wanted to jump to the next level that I'd need a coach, i found one and life is so much easier. No longer do i question whether every workout im doing is the right one to be doing. I dont worry anymore about staying up to date on a weekly basis to see if any new magical training process has been discovered. And maybe most amazing to me, is that I'm doing more work per week and yet have no feelings of deep deep fatigue, as I used to consistently kill myself in practice.

My coach is an online coach, never met the guy in person, yet. So i wouldnt say that should be a huge factor----but its not computer generated training.

If you're considering it, i'd say give it a try. And as another poster remarked, there is no extensive coaching standards---there is USAT certification and such. But I would look at his/hers record of coaching as well as the body of questions they ask of you prior to writing your plan. Also, I believe that whomever my coach is should have been an elite or wannabe elite triathlete in the past or have some sport science/physiology degree.

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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [tri_taiwan] [ In reply to ]
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i wouldn't say she didn't advise him on training. i think the best thing you could say is that it's not that hard to compose a set of workouts to do. the hard part is to advise a world class athlete on which workouts NOT to do, and also take a beaten down athlete and help him do enough -- and only enough -- to get to the point where he damn near runs down deboom for the win.

i don't want to speak out of turn, but i think you'll see another one of these former world beaters, more recently beaten down like peter has been, popping up on the racing scene again, coached by julieanne. but this one's a female.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Is it Siri Lindley?

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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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ok bets are open...I don't think it is Siri as she wanted to retire and was happy with her coach Brett Sutton (although I find it hard to understand...)

my guess would be Karen Smyers
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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I thought i read that one of the reasons she retired was that she had to be in switzerland for her coaching. So maybe she wasnt happy with her coach...

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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I find it hard to understand that she wants to train with him, not that she needs to be in switzerland.
Actually I find it hard to understand why any athlete would train with him to get medals.
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [czone] [ In reply to ]
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Joel,

would you have inside stories we don't?

Fr.
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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No inside stories, but I could just ask tomorrow... I was just thinking of some of the "burnt out" pros I know.

Joel
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
i wouldn't say she didn't advise him on training. i think the best thing you could say is that it's not that hard to compose a set of workouts to do. the hard part is to advise a world class athlete on which workouts NOT to do, and also take a beaten down athlete and help him do enough -- and only enough -- to get to the point where he damn near runs down deboom for the win.
i don't want to speak out of turn, but i think you'll see another one of these former world beaters, more recently beaten down like peter has been, popping up on the racing scene again, coached by julieanne. but this one's a female.






For some reason my response didn't make the cut...
I didn't mean to provide the "last word" on JulieAnne's working relationship with Peter Reid, in case I came across that way. I responded earlier today with a rather lengthy list of ways in which JulieAnne helped me beyond workout schedules, such as advising me on when to/not to race, what races to target, and simply finding good things to say about my training and racing to keep me encouraged and balanced. Triathletes tend to be real obsessive geeks, and often when my mind and body wouldn't be in the same place at the same time JulieAnne knew much better than me to rest one or the other. A good example is the "king of the world" complex we can feel after a good Ironman. Mentally we are so high and just want to get back to training more and harder, but physically we literally need to heal first.

I think that is her greatest strength as a coach, in that she really sees the importance of staying balanced and knows how to communicate that to her athletes.

And my guess is also Melissa Spooner. Seems she's really got the gift and has missed that "centering" that JulieAnne could surely provide. Whomever it is, good luck to her. Combacks are always great to see!
Last edited by: tri_taiwan: Dec 29, 02 21:52
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Re: Coaching - Two thumbs up! [Greg] [ In reply to ]
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There are a LOT of fantastic comments here.

First, a disclaimer, I am a coach with Wenzel World Class Coaching. In addition, I hire a coach.

Why? Simply put, coaching is about more than "training plans." Coaching is about having an objective eye helping an athlete make the right decisions to help them meet their goals. Coaching is about motivation. Coaching is about "throttling back" the overzealous. It's about relationships...In short, it's a combination of art/experience and science.

Tom, in a perfect world, we would have PhD and Masters candidates who are trained to help athletes (actually, we have Biomechanics and Physiology experts who often enter/assist in the coaching ranks). In the absence of such programs (to help today's athletes while developing formalized coaching programs for the future), we need to look to other alternatives. The company with whom I work combines the expertise of one PhD with 3 former European Pros/Pan Am Medalists. The result is a combination of science and experience which is optimal since a Masters program might over-emphasize "book learning" at the detriment of "real world" experience/motivation.

The real key was mentioned earlier...Ask a LOT of questions...Make sure you and your coach are "on the same page" and don't hesitate to clearly articulate your expecations up front.

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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently I guessed right....



Joel
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Re: I think Francois nailed it right here... [czone] [ In reply to ]
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Glad to know. I think Melissa S. is a great triathlete.
Great that she is planning to get back. Hopefully she will not have any more problems with her back as in the past.
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