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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [sweathog] [ In reply to ]
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I’m really glad your son is doing better. I have an older one (fully vaccinated) and two little ones who won’t have the opportunity until later this year. Their pediatrician is also a colleague who has a joint appointment in our department and works closely with Dr. Sonja Rasmussen who has published a lot the past 15 months in covid and who leads precision public health at our institution. We will get our little ones vaccinated as soon as possible.

But I completely understand the worry. I worry for them ALL the time. Being a parent is the best and hardest job there is.
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
trail wrote:
spudone wrote:

If you aren't getting what I'm saying, windschatten: stop with your bullshit biased posts.


I posted something similar, and agree with it. But deleted it because I think we should respect the OP and leave this thread to be about his son and not a vaccine squabble.

I'm fine having the squabble in another thread.


I just wanted to make it clear what he was doing because it already got the response he wanted from SDG. It is underhanded fearmongering. Germany's decision was increasing vaccine access to children, and it had nothing to do with myocarditis. Windschatten shouldn't have posted on this thread at all.



I think you are out of line to insinuate I had any other intention but to inform about the newest development on what other countries decide in regards to vaccinating juveniles.

Granted, this may not be the best thread for posting it (emotional bias and such), but that conclusion was reached also factoring in the myocarditis uncertainty, so I think it is relevant.

Eyeballs is good (I am sure the OP agrees). But unfortunately that simple factual post also gets the eyeballs of those who can't help themselves to behave like immature juveniles, at best.
That's ok. I can ignore that. It is part of the deal to be subjected to the vomit from biased judgemental zealots.

What is more concerning (and what I can't let slide) is that you make up some story about what the factual bulletin actually states.

In fact, what you made up about the bulletin and about the current stance of the Robert Koch Institute (equivalent of CDC) is in no way even remotely close to the truth.

So my perspective who here smears feces all over the place doesn't paint a pretty picture about your house.
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Last edited by: windschatten: Jun 10, 21 17:35
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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Regardless of what you think of others in this thread, I’d suggest you delete your rant to keep the discussion on point. I’m sure we can all agree that a father and his son are far more important than any of this.
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Update


CDC Reports Higher-Than-Expected Number Of Myocarditis Or Pericarditis Cases Among Young People Who Received COVID-19 Vaccine
Reuters (6/10, Erman, Maddipatla) reports, “Preliminary findings from two vaccine safety monitoring systems suggest a higher-than-expected number of cases of heart inflammation after the second dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in young men, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said on Thursday.” According to the CDC, over half of “myocarditis or pericarditis cases reported to the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System after patients had received either the Pfizer/BioNTech, or Moderna vaccines were in people between the ages of 12 and 24,” who made up less than “9% of the doses administered.”

Public Health Advisers To Meet To Discuss Potential Link. Bloomberg (6/10, Griffin) reports that on June 18, “U.S. public health advisers will meet to discuss a potential link between Covid-19 shots that use messenger RNA technology and heart inflammation.” So far, “the CDC has identified a total of 216 cases of heart inflammation after the first dose of an mRNA shot, and another 573 cases after the second dose” with “475 cases identified among those under the age of 30.”
Last edited by: dtoce: Jun 11, 21 7:28
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [SDG] [ In reply to ]
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SDG wrote:
windschatten wrote:
Germany's standing commission on vaccination (STIKO) has just (Bulletin 23/2021, 10th of June) recommend to not generally vaccinate children 12-17 at this point in time (unless a pre-existing condition would warrant protection at all cost).

The reason being for not having enough conclusive data available to make a comprehensive risk assessment and recommendation.
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Just FYI.
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Good lord. That is not good news. A major country today now saying kids should not get vaccinated unless a pre-existing condition. That should be all over the news tonight.

They don't say that kids should not get the vaccination! They are saying that right now, children with pre-existing conditions should get it or on an individual basis. This recommendation comes after weeks of German news headlines about how the Health Ministry is not prepared to start offering vaccines to teenagers when they don't have enough for the adult population.

Germany follows the advice of EMA. STIKO has no authority.
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Although it’s necessary to consider this seriously, the alternative is worse. Also, this is observational in nature with several potential biases that could explain the higher than expected reports in VAERS.
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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dtoce wrote:
Update


CDC Reports Higher-Than-Expected Number Of Myocarditis Or Pericarditis Cases Among Young People Who Received COVID-19 Vaccine
Reuters (6/10, Erman, Maddipatla) reports, “Preliminary findings from two vaccine safety monitoring systems suggest a higher-than-expected number of cases of heart inflammation after the second dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in young men, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said on Thursday.” According to the CDC, over half of “myocarditis or pericarditis cases reported to the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System after patients had received either the Pfizer/BioNTech, or Moderna vaccines were in people between the ages of 12 and 24,” who made up less than “9% of the doses administered.”

Public Health Advisers To Meet To Discuss Potential Link. Bloomberg (6/10, Griffin) reports that on June 18, “U.S. public health advisers will meet to discuss a potential link between Covid-19 shots that use messenger RNA technology and heart inflammation.” So far, “the CDC has identified a total of 216 cases of heart inflammation after the first dose of an mRNA shot, and another 573 cases after the second dose” with “475 cases identified among those under the age of 30.”

What is the baseline rate of myocarditis and pericarditis in this age group? I'm curious what the % increase over baseline is
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [g_lev] [ In reply to ]
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Few epi study looking at incidence of pediatric myocarditis but the estimates are between 1 and 2 per 100,000. One Finnish study puts it at 1.95/100,000 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC5721735/)

Currently, we have nearly 6M vaccinated kids 12-17yo and 7 confirmed symptomatic myocarditis post 2nd dose of mRNA vaccine (https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/.../04/peds.2021-052478).

For pericarditis, the epi data are sparse as well, but a bit higher. Roughly 5-10 times the incidence of myocarditis in pediatric population (can't recall exactly).
Of the 7 cases, they were all myocarditis.

Not sure for the 18-30 or so age group. Probably easier to look at as there are better epi studies given the higher incidence of peri and myocarditis.
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Although it’s necessary to consider this seriously, the alternative is worse. Also, this is observational in nature with several potential biases that could explain the higher than expected reports in VAERS.

I agree whole-heartedly. This is not a recommendation to NOT get vaccinated, just updating regarding incidence and possible association of covid vaccination with myo/peri-carditis. We are obviously not talking about covid infection related cardiac issues, which is an entirely different conversation, as you know.

'Dad's' just want to know...


I am not an epidemiologist, just a regular clinical, invasive, non-interventional cardiologist...
From 'Up To Date':

Pericarditis:
Acute pericarditis is the most common disorder involving the pericardium. Epidemiologic studies are largely lacking, and the exact incidence and prevalence of acute pericarditis are unknown. However, acute pericarditis is recorded in approximately 0.1 to 0.2 percent of hospitalized patients and 5 percent of patients admitted to the emergency department for nonischemic chest pain.

—In an observational study from an urban area in northern Italy, the incidence of acute pericarditis was 27.7 cases per 100,000 persons per year

—In an observational study from Finland that included 670,409 cardiovascular admissions to 29 hospitals across the country over a 9.5-year period, the standardized incidence rate for pericarditis requiring hospitalization was 3.3 cases per 100,000 person-years

Myocarditis:
In the 2019 Global Burden of Disease report, the rate of myocarditis was 6.1 per 100,000 (95% uncertainty interval [UI] 4.2-8.7 per 100,000) in men and 4.4 per 100,000 (95% UI 3.0-6.3 per 100,000) in women between 35 and 39 years.

The incidence of myocarditis according to International Classification of Diseases diagnosis codes was 22/100,000 or approximately 1.5 million cases in the 2013 world population.
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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I've also added the (even scarcer) data for pediatrics population, with even lower rates (obviously).
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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that's very kind of you-many thanks...almost makes jumping into the deep end worth it...


I am aware that there are several (many?) who appreciate my insights coming from a cardiac perspective, so I look over here in the swirling waters from time to time, despite my fear
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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dtoce wrote:
that's very kind of you-many thanks...almost makes jumping into the deep end worth it...


I am aware that there are several (many?) who appreciate my insights coming from a cardiac perspective, so I look over here in the swirling waters from time to time, despite my fear

This place can be a bit of a cesspool, but it's not all that bad.

I appreciate you taking the time to come provide us with some facts and to share your knowledge
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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I'll pile on the 'thanks for posting' despite the aversion to the LR. Very insightful.
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Re: 17 yr old Son in ICU - Myocarditis [sweathog] [ In reply to ]
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Sweathog,

Didn’t read all the replies but saw this article this morning and thought of your son. Hope all is well with you son and fam.

https://www.foxnews.com/...on-rare-heart-issues
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