Help me choose deep section wheels

Dec 11, 20 5:55

Post #1 of 17 (2164 views)

Soon to pick up a Cervelo p3x and need to sort race wheels out for next season.

Whilst I know the rule is always use a disc, I don't have that budget, so am trying to decide between the following sets, for which I might get a disc cover. These wheels will be put on in spring and run all summer for training and racing. I will have the 32mm alloy dt Swiss p1800 that come with the p3x.

I would class myself as front of mid pack. I'd aim to do a HIM bike split at about 220 NP currently. Race weight I sit about 71kg. I would class my bike handling as very good, having grown up riding and racing rigid xc hardtails and doing stupid things with friends that I wince at the thought of now...
I have previously run narrow 88mm tubs front and rear, and most recently an open mould 60/88mm. No issues when it's windy.

I'm in the UK so pay a premium for the likes of HED and zipp.

Both brands I am looking at come in at very similar prices, c. £1000 GBP. Both have crash replacement and decent levels of service.

I will be running 25mm, most likely schwalbe 1 evolution with latex tubes, but haven't ruled out trying tubeless again (I wasn't a convert for road after trying it a few years ago), probably the gp5000.

Option 1:

Parcours chrono

77mm front, 86mm rear. 20 internal front, 19 rear. 1700g ish. CX ray spokes, look like novatec type disc hubs.

Option 2

Edco Eighty Two. 82mm deep, 21 internal.

Option 3

Edco 64mm front, 82mm rear. Same 21 internal.

My thoughts are the Edco just look a bit more premium and are wider internal. External rim width a bit bigger as well, 30.5 Vs 29.5 for the parcours.

The parcours are lighter, but they are going on a p3x so weight obviously isn't crucial to me! Although my training is hilly they are short and sharp hills, rarely over 10 minutes. Races are generally rolling.

The parcours and edco 64/82 offer a shallower front and potentially better stability.

The Edco 82 pair offer the deeper front, which with a disc cover would be the faster set in the right conditions. Would I notice a stability issue with the same depth front and rear or is the difference not enough to be noticeable?

I am leaning towards the Edco 82mm pair, thinking if it's too windy for an 82mm front then it's prob too windy for a 64 as well, in which case I'd run the 32mm alloy front.

Right choice?

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [jn46] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 6:10

Post #2 of 17 (2160 views)

For not much more money you could buy an Aeox wheelset from Aerocoach. I think I'd splurge a little over buying rebranded open mold wheels, or if you're on a tight budget just buy the wheels directly from the factory on Alibaba/etc... but ymmv.

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Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [Morelock] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 7:07

Post #3 of 17 (2140 views)

Thanks for the reply. I had a look at the aerocoach zephyr and data looks good, but that is for the rim brake version that has the narrow high flange hub, which isn't possible on the disc. I don't know how this affects the data, but suspect a lot of the savings come from the hub. I'm not sure on the hidden valve and valve covers, seems like something to lose. I know Xavier is on the forum. Will try and contact to see how the disc hub affects the performance.

I know a lot of the stuff in my budget is rebranded. However the Edco look like a rim shape I haven't been able to find open mould. Edco certainly used to be higher end pricing wise using Reynolds rims and their own hubs. Current models more simplified but they've been in the game for a while.

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [jn46] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 7:13

Post #4 of 17 (2133 views)

ahh my fault, i totally glazed over the disc thing

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Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [jn46] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 7:32

Post #5 of 17 (2117 views)

jn46 wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I had a look at the aerocoach zephyr and data looks good, but that is for the rim brake version that has the narrow high flange hub, which isn't possible on the disc. I don't know how this affects the data, but suspect a lot of the savings come from the hub. I'm not sure on the hidden valve and valve covers, seems like something to lose. I know Xavier is on the forum. Will try and contact to see how the disc hub affects the performance.

I know a lot of the stuff in my budget is rebranded. However the Edco look like a rim shape I haven't been able to find open mould. Edco certainly used to be higher end pricing wise using Reynolds rims and their own hubs. Current models more simplified but they've been in the game for a while.

At 45kph it's about a watt for the hub, so not a lot of the savings really. The Zephyr still beats other wheels even in disc brake format (this got independently tested by two world tour teams recently) but the main benefit is that it's extremely tyre agnostic, you can run a variety of different tyre makes/models and it's always fast (that was our remit when designing the Zephyr).

I think we've only had one customer lose a valve cap so far, we can always chuck a spare in if you want :) if you have any other Qs just give me a shout.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [jn46] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 7:58

Post #6 of 17 (2100 views)

Have you considered Reynolds wheels?

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [jn46] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 8:03

Post #7 of 17 (2096 views)

There is some aero evidence out there that, for a beam bike like the P3X with an unfaired rear wheel, it is even more important to run a rear disc.

If you don't like or can't afford a structural rear disc, for whatever rear wheel you decide on, I would definitely at least run a rear wheel cover.

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Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 8:14

Post #8 of 17 (2087 views)

jimatbeyond wrote:

Have you considered Reynolds wheels?

Yes, think the Reynolds ar80x are probably most comparable, which are £1300 here. Not much more, but enough for me to not have them on the shortlist at the moment.

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 8:15

Post #9 of 17 (2082 views)

Xavier wrote:

jn46 wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I had a look at the aerocoach zephyr and data looks good, but that is for the rim brake version that has the narrow high flange hub, which isn't possible on the disc. I don't know how this affects the data, but suspect a lot of the savings come from the hub. I'm not sure on the hidden valve and valve covers, seems like something to lose. I know Xavier is on the forum. Will try and contact to see how the disc hub affects the performance.

I know a lot of the stuff in my budget is rebranded. However the Edco look like a rim shape I haven't been able to find open mould. Edco certainly used to be higher end pricing wise using Reynolds rims and their own hubs. Current models more simplified but they've been in the game for a while.

At 45kph it's about a watt for the hub, so not a lot of the savings really. The Zephyr still beats other wheels even in disc brake format (this got independently tested by two world tour teams recently) but the main benefit is that it's extremely tyre agnostic, you can run a variety of different tyre makes/models and it's always fast (that was our remit when designing the Zephyr).

I think we've only had one customer lose a valve cap so far, we can always chuck a spare in if you want :) if you have any other Qs just give me a shout.

Thanks Xav. Interesting it's only a watt. Are the disc hubs novatec?

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [jn46] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 8:57

Post #10 of 17 (2059 views)

It's worth mentioning that the non drive side spokes on a disc hub (not Novatec) are pulled in to a similar extent as the narrow rim brake hub, as the disc rotor needs space where the flange would normally go. So on the disc brake wheels the drive side spokes are further out but the non drive spokes are in a similar location to the rim brake wheels.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 9:45

Post #11 of 17 (2046 views)

Xavier wrote:

It's worth mentioning that the non drive side spokes on a disc hub (not Novatec) are pulled in to a similar extent as the narrow rim brake hub, as the disc rotor needs space where the flange would normally go. So on the disc brake wheels the drive side spokes are further out but the non drive spokes are in a similar location to the rim brake wheels.

Thanks. In your aero wisdom is there much difference between the Sapim CX ray and CX delta, or a similar flattened spoke like a pillar? Looked at the specs and the wake of the flatter delta is 1mm, Vs 0.5 for the ray.

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [jn46] [ In reply to ]

Dec 11, 20 13:49

Post #12 of 17 (1971 views)

There won't really be anything in it between those. Moving to a round butted spoke like 1.5mm Lasers you'd see a penalty circa 1-1.5w 45kph for a 20h wheel though.

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http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 21 2:22

Post #13 of 17 (1632 views)

Hi,

sorry to go on with this old thread, but it's related to how agnostic the Zephyr is.

I'm considering buying an AEOX wheel, but my tyre of choice would probably be Conti5000 23mm, as using Corsa Speed is too risky for long course triathlons. Did you perform any tests on both, Titan and Zephyr, with that tyre and width? I'm doubting between both (maybe even get both, Titan rear for disc-banned races) and haven't been able to find any data with that tyre, so if you have and could share any data I'd really appreciate it. Being the design of the Titan for a 23 tyre and not having any interest on TL is why I insist on this one tyre and not others.

Thanks for your time and for kindly sharing the knowledge.

C.

PS: I just can't stand typos and just edited to correct them. Sorry!

Last edited by: DocC: Mar 9, 21 4:30

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [DocC] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 21 2:51

Post #14 of 17 (1615 views)

DocC wrote:

Hi,

sorry to go on with this old thread, but it's related to how agnostic the Zephyr is.

I'm considering buying an AEOX wheel, but my tire of choice would probably be Conti5000 23mm, as using Corsa Speed is too risky for long course triathlons. Did you perform any tests on both, Titan and Zephyr with that tire and width. I'm doubting between both (maybe even get both, Titan rear for disc banned races) and haven't been able to find any data with that tire, so if you have and could share any data I'd really appreciate it. Being the design of teh Titan for a 23 tire and not having any interest on TL is why I insist on this one tire and not others.

Thanks for your time and for kindly sharing the knowledge

C.

No problem at all - in that instance I'd might suggest going for the 25mm GP5000 clincher rather than the 23mm, and using the Zephyr front/Titan rear combo (perhaps a disc as wheel but if not then the Titan) as it's a great all round wheelset. We don't have 23mm GP5000 clincher data on the Titan as part of the data set, but based on all the rest of the information we have it'll be more aero than the 23mm Corsa Speed, just a tiny bit worse for Crr so a great fit.

If you're set on the Titan and don't want a Corsa Speed, then 23mm GP5000 (or GPTT, that's a fine option too and marginally quicker than the GP5000 for Crr, and comes in 23mm) with the right inner tube is perfect. Or, go to a Zephyr front and you can choose 23mm or 25mm GP5000 to your preference. On the rear a 25mm tyre with the Titan is okay, there's not really a detectable aero penalty like there is on the front (same with the disc, you can use 23-26mm and it doesn't really matter).

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 21 3:01

Post #15 of 17 (1609 views)

Hi again,

Thanks for the superfast reply, great work putting info out there for the customers to make well-informed data-based decisions.

I'll definitely consider both options or even the zephyr-titan combo for disc-banned triathlons in the following weeks.

Cheers!

C.

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [DocC] [ In reply to ]

Mar 1, 21 3:09

Post #16 of 17 (1606 views)

DocC wrote:

Hi again,

Thanks for the superfast reply, great work putting info out there for the customers to make well-informed data-based decisions.

I'll definitely consider both options or even the zephyr-titan combo for disc-banned triathlons in the following weeks.

Cheers!

C.

Happy to help :) I know it can be a bit of a minefield for the consumer sometimes!

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

Re: Help me choose deep section wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]

Mar 3, 21 2:52

Post #17 of 17 (1441 views)

Thank's again, it's tricky, that's why brands that put clean data out there should get the customers :)

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