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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Not sure what I'm looking for here, just needed to be able to tell someone that I'm anxious. Hit me with some wise words.


I don't know if it will be meaningful to you, but IME the *resistance* to feeling something is usually the biggest problem. If you let yourself experience it fully then it dissipates. Also be aware of what your mind is doing... like, conjuring up future horror scenarios. You're in great shape really. Even if you get it you'll be fine. And on the bright side, you'd then be immune and not have to worry about it anymore.
Last edited by: rruff: Apr 1, 20 16:47
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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beyond everything else - and i apologize if this has been mentioned and I just missed it - you are HALF as likely to die of this as you would be if you were a man. for some reason, women - yet again - are the more equipped gender.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I can't say I have any reallywise words other than you're not alone. I'm 40 healthy and no pre-existing that I know of.....but scared for sure
Last edited by: Fishbum: Apr 1, 20 18:09
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
beyond everything else - and i apologize if this has been mentioned and I just missed it - you are HALF as likely to die of this as you would be if you were a man. for some reason, women - yet again - are the more equipped gender.

"Incidence of cardiovascular disease (coronary heart disease, heart failure, stroke, or intermittent
claudication; does not include hypertension alone)" is 11% in females age 45-74 vs 22% in males of the same age group. Go figure.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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... not sure if you are into mathematicians gallows humor, but .....

Statistiken machen Sie frei



RayGovett
Hughson CA
Be Prepared-- Strike Swiftly -- Who Dares Wins- Without warning-"it will be hard. I can do it"
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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One of the best (unintended) evaluations of this virus came from looking at the passengers and crew of the Diamond Princess cruise ship. It is a "closed" environment with everyone locked up together using the same play areas, hall space, dining areas, etc... Varied ages but tend to skew more toward an older population.

There were 3600 (give or take) passengers and crew on board. Of those, around 700 tested positive. Initially, almost 50% of these people were asymptomatic. Only 18% remained asymptomatic. Of the roughly 700, who tested positive, I believe 7 died (and these were all over the age of 70).

A cruise ship is such a good study incubator when you have no choice and have to do a quick analysis. Now, there may be more up to date data available but the point of this is even if you are stuck in an environment where you are enclosed with infected people, it looks like you have about a 1 in 5 chance of becoming infected. The mortality rate here (7 people out of 3600) looks to be right at 0.19%.

Once this is all over, that's when we will be able to receive "real" numbers. For now, this scenario may be the best we can do for controlled conditions
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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EyeRunMD wrote:
One of the best (unintended) evaluations of this virus came from looking at the passengers and crew of the Diamond Princess cruise ship. It is a "closed" environment with everyone locked up together using the same play areas, hall space, dining areas, etc... Varied ages but tend to skew more toward an older population.

There were 3600 (give or take) passengers and crew on board. Of those, around 700 tested positive. Initially, almost 50% of these people were asymptomatic. Only 18% remained asymptomatic. Of the roughly 700, who tested positive, I believe 7 died (and these were all over the age of 70).

A cruise ship is such a good study incubator when you have no choice and have to do a quick analysis. Now, there may be more up to date data available but the point of this is even if you are stuck in an environment where you are enclosed with infected people, it looks like you have about a 1 in 5 chance of becoming infected. The mortality rate here (7 people out of 3600) looks to be right at 0.19%.

Once this is all over, that's when we will be able to receive "real" numbers. For now, this scenario may be the best we can do for controlled conditions

I totally agree with this and have been telling it to a lot of people. Even in absolutely terrible conditions 4 out of 5 people DID NOT catch it. I’m not saying it’s not a big deal and we don’t need to be vigilant- but from an individual risk perspective if you look at the total population numbers - the majority of people don’t get it.

There are almost 19 million people in New York City. I think they are reporting about 45k cases. Even if they are under reporting by a ton and it’s 20x that - say 1m. That’s 1m of 19m.

Follow the rules, be safe, keep others safe but individuality be hopeful. There’s no data set I can find with a higher transmission rate than the diamond princess and 80% did not get it.

I do not want to minimize this at all there are other risks with hospitals full etc. and if it’s 20% it’s a really big risk- but put it in perspective for your mental health.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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EyeRunMD wrote:
One of the best (unintended) evaluations of this virus came from looking at the passengers and crew of the Diamond Princess cruise ship. It is a "closed" environment with everyone locked up together using the same play areas, hall space, dining areas, etc... Varied ages but tend to skew more toward an older population.

There were 3600 (give or take) passengers and crew on board. Of those, around 700 tested positive. Initially, almost 50% of these people were asymptomatic. Only 18% remained asymptomatic. Of the roughly 700, who tested positive, I believe 7 died (and these were all over the age of 70).

A cruise ship is such a good study incubator when you have no choice and have to do a quick analysis. Now, there may be more up to date data available but the point of this is even if you are stuck in an environment where you are enclosed with infected people, it looks like you have about a 1 in 5 chance of becoming infected. The mortality rate here (7 people out of 3600) looks to be right at 0.19%.

Once this is all over, that's when we will be able to receive "real" numbers. For now, this scenario may be the best we can do for controlled conditions

I think something even better we can learn is how they managed it. I've been lucky enough to get norovirus on a cruise. They don't fuck around. They are well equipped and trained staff to handle things like this that have a high rate of transmission. They were passing out hand sanitizer like it was free alcohol which I didn't quite understand seeing as it is not effective against norovirus, but other than that I was incredibly impressed.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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this is helpful. Thanks.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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You're a swimmer. I found this article very helpful.

https://www.marketwatch.com/...-04-02?mod=home-page

salmon - not because I'm a fish
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
EyeRunMD wrote:
One of the best (unintended) evaluations of this virus came from looking at the passengers and crew of the Diamond Princess cruise ship. It is a "closed" environment with everyone locked up together using the same play areas, hall space, dining areas, etc... Varied ages but tend to skew more toward an older population.

There were 3600 (give or take) passengers and crew on board. Of those, around 700 tested positive. Initially, almost 50% of these people were asymptomatic. Only 18% remained asymptomatic. Of the roughly 700, who tested positive, I believe 7 died (and these were all over the age of 70).

A cruise ship is such a good study incubator when you have no choice and have to do a quick analysis. Now, there may be more up to date data available but the point of this is even if you are stuck in an environment where you are enclosed with infected people, it looks like you have about a 1 in 5 chance of becoming infected. The mortality rate here (7 people out of 3600) looks to be right at 0.19%.

Once this is all over, that's when we will be able to receive "real" numbers. For now, this scenario may be the best we can do for controlled conditions


I think something even better we can learn is how they managed it. I've been lucky enough to get norovirus on a cruise. They don't fuck around. They are well equipped and trained staff to handle things like this that have a high rate of transmission. They were passing out hand sanitizer like it was free alcohol which I didn't quite understand seeing as it is not effective against norovirus, but other than that I was incredibly impressed.

Let's say you could knowingly expose yourself and contract the virus. Would you do it just to get it over with, and hopefully build antibodies for the virus and be able to go back to your regular routine? Caveats: You have to quarantine yourself until you are no longer contagious and you can't seek medical attention or hospitalization despite how sick you get, to include death.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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One of the best (unintended) evaluations of this virus came from looking at the passengers and crew of the Diamond Princess cruise ship. It is a "closed" environment with everyone locked up together using the same play areas, hall space, dining areas, etc.//

The thing about this cruise ship though, is that most likely they stopped it before it had a chance to reach most of the people. What are they, a week out? This thing usually starts out slowly, unless you have some super spreader early on, and then it has a doubling every 3 or 4 days? I think if that was a 3 or 4 week cruise, and they wouldnt have shut it down, then for sure there would have been a lot more cases. In a way, the passengers who didn't get it were just lucky, time was on their side. That and the fact that when folks start going to the ships ICU and dying, it sounds alarm bells very quickly on board.


I wouldn't put too much faith in the fact that most people on the ship were not infected be a sign that this bug is not contagious as hell. It is a great evaluation of what it can do in a very short period of time, and what mitigation efforts can do to quell the spread, that's what I see from that one, and the now air craft carrier episodes.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
One of the best (unintended) evaluations of this virus came from looking at the passengers and crew of the Diamond Princess cruise ship. It is a "closed" environment with everyone locked up together using the same play areas, hall space, dining areas, etc.//

The thing about this cruise ship though, is that most likely they stopped it before it had a chance to reach most of the people. What are they, a week out? This thing usually starts out slowly, unless you have some super spreader early on, and then it has a doubling every 3 or 4 days? I think if that was a 3 or 4 week cruise, and they wouldnt have shut it down, then for sure there would have been a lot more cases. In a way, the passengers who didn't get it were just lucky, time was on their side. That and the fact that when folks start going to the ships ICU and dying, it sounds alarm bells very quickly on board.


I wouldn't put too much faith in the fact that most people on the ship were not infected be a sign that this bug is not contagious as hell. It is a great evaluation of what it can do in a very short period of time, and what mitigation efforts can do to quell the spread, that's what I see from that one, and the now air craft carrier episodes.

There were a thousand crew members cooking up and delivering meals 3 times per day. Let's presume that you can't get it from food, but how many plates/trays/cups/containers do you think an infectious crew member would handle daily in a ship's galley and then deliver the corona love to passengers? I haven't looked up the numbers lately, but I think something like 50 crew members had tested positive.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [RZ] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't looked up the numbers lately, but I think something like 50 crew members had tested positive.//

No, I get that, but what we don't know is when those 50 got it, do we? It could have been 3 or 4 in the beginning maybe 20 to 25 a little later, and they double on the last day to 50(when everyone got tested after mitigation had begun). My guess is that 3 or 4 more days of normal activity on the ship, and those numbers double again, along with the passengers. We are never going to know exactly the timing of the infections, except that they seem to want to double if left unchecked ever few days.

I know that some people have little to no symptoms, but are some of you arguing that a "lot" of people will be immune to this virus?
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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A little different take than most posts here. At age 7 I almost died from an encephalitis probably caused by a reaction to a flu vaccine (suspected allergy to the culture medium). I am turning sixty. I have tried to grasp every opportunity in my life since then. Only one I screwed up. Basically you have one shot at this, grasp every moment you can and you will never have regrets. We all die sometime, so don't hold back on trying life at its fullest. Try new things, learn new stuff, push your boundaries constantly.

Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I haven't looked up the numbers lately, but I think something like 50 crew members had tested positive.//

No, I get that, but what we don't know is when those 50 got it, do we? It could have been 3 or 4 in the beginning maybe 20 to 25 a little later, and they double on the last day to 50(when everyone got tested after mitigation had begun). My guess is that 3 or 4 more days of normal activity on the ship, and those numbers double again, along with the passengers. We are never going to know exactly the timing of the infections, except that they seem to want to double if left unchecked ever few days.

I know that some people have little to no symptoms, but are some of you arguing that a "lot" of people will be immune to this virus?

We'll probably never know. My post was more about my suspicion on how it continued to spread throughout the ship. Thousands of dining utensils changed hands every day and plenty of people forget how easy it is to touch something and then touch their face. A lot of it happens unconsciously if you're not hyper-vigilant. But the quarantine time was entirely within the 14 day incubation period so they could have been infected long before. I think it was a combination of the two. Which is entirely subjective.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
One of the best (unintended) evaluations of this virus came from looking at the passengers and crew of the Diamond Princess cruise ship. It is a "closed" environment with everyone locked up together using the same play areas, hall space, dining areas, etc.//

The thing about this cruise ship though, is that most likely they stopped it before it had a chance to reach most of the people. What are they, a week out? This thing usually starts out slowly, unless you have some super spreader early on, and then it has a doubling every 3 or 4 days? I think if that was a 3 or 4 week cruise, and they wouldnt have shut it down, then for sure there would have been a lot more cases. In a way, the passengers who didn't get it were just lucky, time was on their side. That and the fact that when folks start going to the ships ICU and dying, it sounds alarm bells very quickly on board.


I wouldn't put too much faith in the fact that most people on the ship were not infected be a sign that this bug is not contagious as hell. It is a great evaluation of what it can do in a very short period of time, and what mitigation efforts can do to quell the spread, that's what I see from that one, and the now air craft carrier episodes.

Do we know how long after you are exposed to the virus before you become contagious? Or what is the incubation time?
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [RZ] [ In reply to ]
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RZ wrote:
monty wrote:
I haven't looked up the numbers lately, but I think something like 50 crew members had tested positive.//

No, I get that, but what we don't know is when those 50 got it, do we? It could have been 3 or 4 in the beginning maybe 20 to 25 a little later, and they double on the last day to 50(when everyone got tested after mitigation had begun). My guess is that 3 or 4 more days of normal activity on the ship, and those numbers double again, along with the passengers. We are never going to know exactly the timing of the infections, except that they seem to want to double if left unchecked ever few days.

I know that some people have little to no symptoms, but are some of you arguing that a "lot" of people will be immune to this virus?

We'll probably never know. My post was more about my suspicion on how it continued to spread throughout the ship. Thousands of dining utensils changed hands every day and plenty of people forget how easy it is to touch something and then touch their face. A lot of it happens unconsciously if you're not hyper-vigilant. But the quarantine time was entirely within the 14 day incubation period so they could have been infected long before. I think it was a combination of the two. Which is entirely subjective.


From what I understand, it all started with one passenger. He was confirmed COVID-19 positive on February 1, 2020 after having been dropped off in Hong Kong several days earlier. That means the entire crew and passengers were going about normal affairs until 02/01. Passengers were not confined, to their cabins, until Feb 5th. So, probably at least a week before people were separated/confined. As someone stated earlier, we really don't know who, besides the guy dropped off in Hong Kong, may have come on to the ship infected initially (meaning, was it the one guy who spread the disease or multiple asymptomatic other passengers????).

Luckily, this "experiment" involved testing all passengers and crew. It hard to predict the true infectious nature here. But, with the possible early exposure of a week or more (before room quarantine), plus the possibility that others may have come on to the ship infected but asymptomatic, it gives us a good idea looking at the numbers. 2900 passengers or crew did NOT become infected. Apparently, none or very few, were presenting with concerning symptoms on boarding. They tested everyone even though only about 380 or so were symptomatic when the concerns started. Eventually, 194 more became symptomatic but that still left almost 200 who never developed symptoms.

How can you extrapolate this in to the real world? No city itself would compare to such an isolated confined space as a cruise ship so you'd think a city would have an even lower rate of infection if everyone could be tested. On the other hand, no city could also absolutely confine people to their rooms with no, or very limited, ability to leave. This is a very strict quarantine.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [erik+] [ In reply to ]
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erik+ wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
EyeRunMD wrote:


Let's say you could knowingly expose yourself and contract the virus. Would you do it just to get it over with, and hopefully build antibodies for the virus and be able to go back to your regular routine? Caveats: You have to quarantine yourself until you are no longer contagious and you can't seek medical attention or hospitalization despite how sick you get, to include death.

I have thought about this and I think I’m more concerned about losing 2 weeks of productivity than I would be about being positive with the virus.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [erik+] [ In reply to ]
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erik+ wrote:

Let's say you could knowingly expose yourself and contract the virus. Would you do it just to get it over with, and hopefully build antibodies for the virus and be able to go back to your regular routine? Caveats: You have to quarantine yourself until you are no longer contagious and you can't seek medical attention or hospitalization despite how sick you get, to include death.

I saw a good analogy on a reddit meme of all places.

To paraphrase "If I gave you 100 skittles, but 3 of them would kill you, you wouldn't eat the f'n skittles"
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [RZ] [ In reply to ]
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RZ wrote:
erik+ wrote:


Let's say you could knowingly expose yourself and contract the virus. Would you do it just to get it over with, and hopefully build antibodies for the virus and be able to go back to your regular routine? Caveats: You have to quarantine yourself until you are no longer contagious and you can't seek medical attention or hospitalization despite how sick you get, to include death.


I saw a good analogy on a reddit meme of all places.

To paraphrase "If I gave you 100 skittles, but 3 of them would kill you, you wouldn't eat the f'n skittles"

The difference is, you can live your entire life and choose to not eat skittles.

You can’t live your entire life and not be exposed to a virus. It’s here. We can’t run. We can do what we can to help exposure, but we can’t truly eliminate it. Remember that the point of isolation isn’t as much to prevent people from contracting the virus, it’s about slowing the contraction so hospitals can keep up with the number of patients.

It’s like a restaurant being able to change the lunch rush from 11am-1pm to 10am-3pm. Restaurant employees would be able to keep up with orders and offer better service. It doesn’t change people being hungry.

We need to remember that everyday we avoid death. Everything we do has a percentage of annual fatalities.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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My post was in the context of "knowingly expose yourself and contract the virus. Would you do it just to get it over with"

If 3 of those skittles would kill you, you'd avoid them. If this virus had a 3% fatality rate, why try to infect yourself on purpose "just to get it over with"? What's the difference?

It's the same risk of playing real life russian roulette with 5 revolvers laying on the table, one of them has a real bullet in a chamber. Pick one. Probably something most people would nope right out of.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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jharris wrote:
RZ wrote:
erik+ wrote:


Let's say you could knowingly expose yourself and contract the virus. Would you do it just to get it over with, and hopefully build antibodies for the virus and be able to go back to your regular routine? Caveats: You have to quarantine yourself until you are no longer contagious and you can't seek medical attention or hospitalization despite how sick you get, to include death.


I saw a good analogy on a reddit meme of all places.

To paraphrase "If I gave you 100 skittles, but 3 of them would kill you, you wouldn't eat the f'n skittles"

The difference is, you can live your entire life and choose to not eat skittles.

You can’t live your entire life and not be exposed to a virus. It’s here. We can’t run. We can do what we can to help exposure, but we can’t truly eliminate it. Remember that the point of isolation isn’t as much to prevent people from contracting the virus, it’s about slowing the contraction so hospitals can keep up with the number of patients.

It’s like a restaurant being able to change the lunch rush from 11am-1pm to 10am-3pm. Restaurant employees would be able to keep up with orders and offer better service. It doesn’t change people being hungry.

We need to remember that everyday we avoid death. Everything we do has a percentage of annual fatalities.

Agree. Either way it is here and you will get it and your body will either be immune or you will experience various symptoms, or you may succumb to it. Providing science doesn't find a cure for it by the time you contract it.

Maybe I should rephrase the point. Not just so you can go back to life as before. Maybe so your antibodies could aid in a solution to finding a vaccine for others. There are likely numerous countries experimenting on this now would be my guess. Once the curve is flattened we haven't gotten rid of the disease. We're currently in a logistical dilemma, nothing to do with the virus. It will still be there with the curve flattened, with the same exposure risks we have now providing science doesn't prevail by that point. Personally, I'll take my risk with the virus if it can speed the process of science prevailing.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Hey- I just wanted to check in and see how you are doing.
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Re: I'm actually really anxious about the possibility of getting sick [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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better, thanks. Not as anxious about getting ill. The things people said here was helpful. It's really nice of you to remember and ask me.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Last edited by: Dr. Tigerchik: Apr 15, 20 11:45
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