well i guess P4s are a great fiction. Since in aftermath we're seeing it all.

I applaud SG's patience and persistence in reporting on this instance. Years ago I asked him a more technical question on SIPR and he was equally forthcoming (on that medium).

/r

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Steve

If you read the full report, I don't think the C7F CoS comes off bad. Some mixed communications, but the report certainly doesn't point to him as a cause of any of the significant issues, nor did it recommend any action against him.

That said, he's a very senior O6/Captain, and may not have really been in the running for Flag rank anymore anyway. I don't see anything in this report that would cause him to have to resign ahead of whatever his previous plans were. With the usual disclosure that I worked closely with him over the past two years.


Regarding P4s, they still exist, although with how Navy message traffic is routed these days (i.e. through Outlook into normal e-mail accounts), and with the proliferation of regular e-mail as the norm for personal correspondence between commanders, they aren't used as often. I see P4s typically used as messages from a senior to a subordinate issuing broad guidance (i.e. a Fleet Commander might have a standard P4 he issues to incoming ships or strike groups with his theater guidance), or messages from a senior to subordinate congratulating them on good work (i.e. a commander might send a message to a ship that performed particularly well during an operation or exercise - with the intent that the message would subsequently be shared with the crew).

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I read the entire report and we differ about your boss coming across as bad. He was front and center for the mixed comm difficulties wrt to testing before departing and the ship CO finding flaws in the way ahead as put forth by C7F. It takes two to tango and the subordinate dancer was having difficulty with his senior dance partner's lead. Butting heads without communicating clearly to resolution was the predicate to all that followed.

Is the proliferation of personal emails between commands and the routing assigned a contributory factor then? You and I served in different navies but the same, I can't tell you how much easier communicating was when there was less of it. Too many comm streams and too many chiefs is my bottom line here.

What I didn't see surface in this investigation was the fleet command climate and culture issues addressed by the CJCS in sending the initial report back for this product.

I too fully appreciate all that SG has put forward. It is far more than one should expect of an active line captain who was at the epicenter of this fiasco.

Even with all that is conveyed in those 88 pages and all the questions answered and the case against the CO solidly made and the recommendations for correction going forward there is still wonder for me. But yeah, we have seen pretty much all of it. And it sucks being the guinea pig first out the gate.

Well, to start with, he wasn't my boss. I worked as the Admiral's Executive Assistant and reported directly to him as personal staff.


He was front and center (along with several others) for the confusion on whether testing was required before moving Sailors, but realize that C7F is not TR's direct senior. There's a Strike Group commander (RDML Baker) in between, and part of his job is to facilitate communications between the Fleet and the ship. Not to mention, ships "find flaws" in the Fleet's plans, all the time. Ships typically don't have the full picture that the Fleet has, and sometimes the Fleet doesn't have some of the details the ship has. Again, Strike Group. You'll notice the report criticizes RDML Baker for his part in these issues.


It can contribute to confusion if not managed, but that's why all the players were invited to participate in daily VTCs where they had the opportunity for face to face contact to clear up any concerns.


Likely just something that is covered in other correspondence, and not really within the purview of this specific report. I'm obviously guessing on this.

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Slowguy

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Minor correction; I'm a Commander, not a Captain.

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Slowguy

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Sorry for previous in appropriate address. How does this work? Being a Army guy this often baffels me. Our son is a PO3 going for his second chance at the Goat Locker. But you Navy guys baffle me with your rank/ratting thing?



/r

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Steve

That doesn’t sound quite right. The “Goat Locker” refers to the Chief Petty Officers ranks, E7 through E9. If your son is a PO3, that means he’s an E4, and would have to skip E5 and E6 ranks to get to the Goat Locker, which I’ve never heard of happening. Not even sure what the mechanism would be to make that kind of advancement happen.

Not saying it’s absolutely not right, just sounds odd.

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Slowguy

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I'm sure its my error. Our son is PO first class

you guys make this harder than us

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Steve

Ahh, got it. That sounds right. Petty Officer 1st Class is an E6, so he’s looking for promotion to E7.

We actually keep it pretty simple in the Navy.

Seaman - Recruit, Apprentice, then full Seaman
Petty Officer - 3rd, 2nd, 1st
Chief Petty Officer - regular, Senior, Master

Much easier than differentiating between Army, Marine Corps, and Air Force ranks, where you sometimes have different ranks for E1 and E2 but not always, sometimes First Class for E3 sometimes for E2, might be a Corporal or a Specialist at E4, might be Staff Sergeant at E5 or E6, etc, etc. Even just between Army and USMC there are slight differences at almost every pay grade and sometimes multiple options at the same pay grade within the same service.

We keep ours much simpler, and the Coast Guard uses the same as we do.

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Slowguy

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Made sure slowguy didn't cover this. Crozier will be allowed to stay in the Navy, he will likely find a desk in the Pentagon or Fleet HQ. There's always needs for O-6s to make coffee. Because when you there are no privates, there are always privates. Rear Admiral Baker was relieved of commander of the Carrier Strike Group, he will also find a desk somewhere I'm sure.

https://apnews.com/...1e35b6b1a391f63352b?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.