Swim Bike Run
Slowtwitch.com
  • Login >
Slowtwitch.com
Search menu
Hot Forum Topics

Poll

Best Recent Tech for Tri
What is the most beneficial recent bike tech used in tri bikes
View Results


Home > Forum > Triathlon Forum > Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer?

Triathlon Forum

Back To ForumPrint Thread

Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Tri
Classifieds
Lavender
Jobs
Notices
Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer?
Quote | Reply
cmscat50
Dec 10, 19 14:23
Post #1 of 12 (1901 views)
OK here me out here. I've probably got 50,000 miles on my Kinetic Road Machine. I officially retired that 3 days ago and moved to the H3. Immediately I had an increase in wattage. Now before we all go making assumptions yes I am confirming power via my Vectory 3's. Not comparing using the H3 power.

My thoughts? I've ALWAYS made less power indoors than out. I have chalked it up to heat. I generally ride in temps in my basement between 57 and 65 so not hot. Now that I have a different trainer I believe the difference may be the lack or true road simulation on the Road Machine. I used the original flywheel. The H3 is now know to have one of the best road feels out there. I'd agree with it as I've also dabbled a bit in all things Tacx.

I have never really crushed an all out 20 min TT on the trainer but set an all time 20 min power today without too much fuss. Tomorrow I will hit 22,000 miles ridden for the year so certainly spend some seat time evaluating equipment. Ha.

Just thought I'd share some info. I really believe the H3 has that smoother road feel which just might = more wattage output. I bet I'll acquire lots more data soon enough!
24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
brando
Dec 10, 19 14:36
Post #2 of 12 (1887 views)
What are you using to control the resistance/flywheeling on the trainer? I have an H2 and pretty much always do Zwift, and sometimes use Erg. One nice thing with a smart trainer is ability to vary the inertial load, so it could be interesting to compare two efforts, one with maximal flywheeling (e.g. Zwift Tempus Fugit, flat and fast TT) and one with maximal resistance (Alpe du Zwift, slow, steep climb).
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [brando] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cmscat50
Dec 10, 19 14:40
Post #3 of 12 (1877 views)
Zwift. I have not touched any settings. Vectors calibrated as always.

ps H3 does seem to report lower power than Vectors....slightly. I guess I could find that our real quick on ERG.
24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mcalista
Dec 10, 19 18:39
Post #4 of 12 (1812 views)
cmscat50 wrote:
Zwift. I have not touched any settings. Vectors calibrated as always.

ps H3 does seem to report lower power than Vectors....slightly. I guess I could find that our real quick on ERG.

Due to drivetrain losses, you would expect pedal based PM's to measure slightly higher than crank-based, which in turn should be slightly higher than spider-based PM's, and in turn slightly higher than a trainer, even if all PM's were 100% precisely accurate.
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ejd_mil
Dec 10, 19 19:26
Post #5 of 12 (1789 views)
I feel the same way with my Hammer 1 compared to my trusted CycleOps Fluid 2, at least on erg mode.

I need to do some more intervals to really test drive it but that was certainly my first impressions.
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
longtrousers
Dec 11, 19 0:05
Post #6 of 12 (1706 views)
cmscat50 wrote:
OK here me out here. I've probably got 50,000 miles on my Kinetic Road Machine. I officially retired that 3 days ago and moved to the H3. Immediately I had an increase in wattage. Now before we all go making assumptions yes I am confirming power via my Vectory 3's. Not comparing using the H3 power.

My thoughts? I've ALWAYS made less power indoors than out. I have chalked it up to heat. I generally ride in temps in my basement between 57 and 65 so not hot. Now that I have a different trainer I believe the difference may be the lack or true road simulation on the Road Machine. I used the original flywheel. The H3 is now know to have one of the best road feels out there. I'd agree with it as I've also dabbled a bit in all things Tacx.

I have never really crushed an all out 20 min TT on the trainer but set an all time 20 min power today without too much fuss. Tomorrow I will hit 22,000 miles ridden for the year so certainly spend some seat time evaluating equipment. Ha.

Just thought I'd share some info. I really believe the H3 has that smoother road feel which just might = more wattage output. I bet I'll acquire lots more data soon enough!

First of all I am knocked out by your mileage. 22,000 miles in a year is 100 km/day. On the trainer. On average. You should be near some record there.
As to the vectors: I read once that their output are very sensitive to the torque with which you mount them. Maybe the difference in interaction between the vectors and the cranks of the two different trainers is causing a noticeable difference in power output.
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
burnthesheep
Dec 11, 19 4:00
Post #7 of 12 (1644 views)
I don’t feel like most fluids have enough flywheel to make the pedaling the same as real life. Meaning that it unnaturally pulls at you to stop the entire way around the pedal stroke. Real life and trainers with inertia there’s a feeling of inertia during the non-power parts of the pedal stroke.

I don’t think a lot of meters are going to pickup if you’re pulling up or trying to work against that fluid in those spots. Especially pedals. But, you’re doing the work but not getting credit for it. So, lower power in the end.

My take. Might be a bunch of bollocks but that’s how it feels.

I ride a Fluid 2 and a Cycleops Pro spin bike that has a huge flywheel and some good road feel.

The Fluid 2 is a power and soul sucker. I’ve debated making a cheapo super heavy weighted trainer wheel for the fluid.
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
exxxviii
Dec 11, 19 5:37
Post #8 of 12 (1564 views)
What is the gearing that you are using on the H3 versus the gearing you used to use on the KKRM when you were doing equivalent watts? Asked in another way, what was the flywheel speed in both scenarios?

The flywheel speed determines the braking resistance. And, higher braking resistances causes different muscle engagement than lower braking resistance. And, muscle engagement affects fatigue. So, your H3 gearing & flywheel speed could be leading to a muscle engagement profile that is easier for you than what you were doing on the KKRM.
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cmscat50
Dec 11, 19 5:39
Post #9 of 12 (1560 views)
Might be ~2 cogs different. Not sure, but close.
24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
exxxviii
Dec 11, 19 5:41
Post #10 of 12 (1559 views)
Huh, then I got nothin'. That should not be a material difference. I was thinking you might have been 52-15 on the KKRM but 36-20 on the H3. That would make a huge difference.
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TJP_SBR
Dec 11, 19 8:32
Post #11 of 12 (1489 views)
longtrousers wrote:
cmscat50 wrote:
OK here me out here. I've probably got 50,000 miles on my Kinetic Road Machine. I officially retired that 3 days ago and moved to the H3. Immediately I had an increase in wattage. Now before we all go making assumptions yes I am confirming power via my Vectory 3's. Not comparing using the H3 power.

My thoughts? I've ALWAYS made less power indoors than out. I have chalked it up to heat. I generally ride in temps in my basement between 57 and 65 so not hot. Now that I have a different trainer I believe the difference may be the lack or true road simulation on the Road Machine. I used the original flywheel. The H3 is now know to have one of the best road feels out there. I'd agree with it as I've also dabbled a bit in all things Tacx.

I have never really crushed an all out 20 min TT on the trainer but set an all time 20 min power today without too much fuss. Tomorrow I will hit 22,000 miles ridden for the year so certainly spend some seat time evaluating equipment. Ha.

Just thought I'd share some info. I really believe the H3 has that smoother road feel which just might = more wattage output. I bet I'll acquire lots more data soon enough!

First of all I am knocked out by your mileage. 22,000 miles in a year is 100 km/day. On the trainer. On average. You should be near some record there.
As to the vectors: I read once that their output are very sensitive to the torque with which you mount them. Maybe the difference in interaction between the vectors and the cranks of the two different trainers is causing a noticeable difference in power output.

Technically it’s 0 miles on the trainer though
Quote Reply
Re: Smart trainer = more wattage than dumb trainer? [TJP_SBR] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
longtrousers
Dec 11, 19 9:18
Post #12 of 12 (1458 views)
TJP_SBR wrote:
longtrousers wrote:
cmscat50 wrote:
OK here me out here. I've probably got 50,000 miles on my Kinetic Road Machine. I officially retired that 3 days ago and moved to the H3. Immediately I had an increase in wattage. Now before we all go making assumptions yes I am confirming power via my Vectory 3's. Not comparing using the H3 power.

My thoughts? I've ALWAYS made less power indoors than out. I have chalked it up to heat. I generally ride in temps in my basement between 57 and 65 so not hot. Now that I have a different trainer I believe the difference may be the lack or true road simulation on the Road Machine. I used the original flywheel. The H3 is now know to have one of the best road feels out there. I'd agree with it as I've also dabbled a bit in all things Tacx.

I have never really crushed an all out 20 min TT on the trainer but set an all time 20 min power today without too much fuss. Tomorrow I will hit 22,000 miles ridden for the year so certainly spend some seat time evaluating equipment. Ha.

Just thought I'd share some info. I really believe the H3 has that smoother road feel which just might = more wattage output. I bet I'll acquire lots more data soon enough!


First of all I am knocked out by your mileage. 22,000 miles in a year is 100 km/day. On the trainer. On average. You should be near some record there.
As to the vectors: I read once that their output are very sensitive to the torque with which you mount them. Maybe the difference in interaction between the vectors and the cranks of the two different trainers is causing a noticeable difference in power output.


Technically it’s 0 miles on the trainer though
When I crawl out of the cellar my wife always asks the question "Where did you bike to?". I still don't know what to answer on that.
Quote Reply
Back To ForumPrint Thread

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.