Not great, but not schist either.

No, they really are not. They aren't saying anything is false or misleading. They are claiming that, on their face, they encourage violent behavior. That is a far cry from what you are claiming.

Look, here is the Complaint. The advertising claim is alleged in Paragraph 174 and 175. The Plaintiffs are claiming Bushmaster marketed the AR "to make other bow down" and "in militaristic terms." They are attacking the ads on their face, not claiming they are misleading in any way.

Read the Complaint for yourself:

https://www.koskoff.com/...milies-Complaint.pdf

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Firearms safety or hunters ed used to be relatively common place, but are not requisite for purchasing of a firearm.

If purchasing from an FFL (Federal Firearms License) basically anyone in the business of buying and selling firearms, you have to complete some paperwork and have a background check through NICS. Depending on how many checks are being run, that can take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour.

Handguns are handled differently on a state by state, if you have a concealed carry here in MN you can buy a handgun the same as a long gun. Without it, there is more paperwork required.

I don't have an issue requiring a firearms safety type training for the purchasing, but we also need to make sure NICS is working how it should. Often people are allowed to buy a firearm that should have been flagged by NICS, but not all authorities are reporting to it correctly and it does not tie any mental health records to the check.

Universal background checks would basically require private sales to go through an FFL. What people are concerned about is say jim bob wants to sell billy his rifle, they go down to the lgs (local gun store). Jim bob would have to file a NICS to transfer to the FFL, and Billy would do a transfer from the FFL to himself. What happens when Jim Bob gets flagged as not authorized to own a firearm? Doubly so, when Billy gets flagged to? Now the FFL cannot turn the gun back to the original owner or the new buyer and is stuck in a tough spot. So a lot of resistance from dealers for universal checks is based on potential to be stuck in a weird legal predicament.

Say you have the local PD handle these transfers, would it be self incrimination for Jim Bob?

We are straying a long ways from the OP here.

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Badum-dum!! Lol

In paragraphs 215-218, 222 and 224, plaintiffs allege that defendants knew or should have known of the foreseeable risk of injury.

These allegations go directly to what was in the minds of defendants, not what was in the ads themselves. Internal documents discussing ad campaigns could shed light on what was known about the risk of injury. Did they debate whether the ads were a good idea given the rise in mass shootings?

Paragraphs 219-220 and 226 allege oppressive, malicious type behavior. Those allegations relate to the willful disregard for the safety of others— it’s another allegation about what was known about risk of injury.

That’s just from the first count for wrongful death. I didn’t read beyond that.

Paragraph 215-218, 222 and 224 all have to do with the allegations regarding the manufacture and sale of a "military-style weapon" to civilians. It has nothing to do with the ads or the marketing of the firearm. The core argument is that the AR should never have been manufactured for sale to civilians.


Paragraphs 219-220 and 226 state a legal cause of action based on the facts set forth in paragraph 174 and 175, in which the ads themselves, on their face, are being attacked.

There are absolutely no allegations that the ads were misleading or contained false to deceptive information. To the contrary, the Plaintiffs are alleging the intent is irrelevant because the ads themselves, on their face, promote violence.

The Complaint speaks for itself. There are no allegations in the actual complaint that support your assertions.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Believe what you want to believe. I disagree with your position.

What I believe is irrelevant. I can "believe" Moby Dick is a white whale of Melville's creation and you can "disagree" with my "position," but neither will alter the contents of the book. The Complaint speaks for itself and the Complaint is very clear.

If there was anything in the Complaint that supported your position, you would be able to quote it. But, there isn't.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What is her position?

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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

She stated it multiple times. It would be doing a disservice to her, to you, and to the entire LR community for me to use my words when her words are set forth so clearly in this thread.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

JSA, just out of curiosity, what kind of law do you practice? You’re in WI?

I am. I practice labor and employment law in about 18 states around the US. I'm a former criminal prosecutor and spent time as a military magistrate judge.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Wow— You took the bar or enjoyed reciprocity in 18 states?

You don’t ask, but I’m an insurance defense attorney and have practiced in California and Montana. I’ve handled a fun variety of cases in both places.

Admitted to 3 states. Most of my practice is in federal court, so, admitted to federal courts in all others. Just admitted to the District of Puerto Rico, but, I haven't had the pleasure of heading down there yet. Trial in February, so, the weather should be nice. Pro hac vice when necessary to appear in state court. Pennsylvania is the only state in which I needed to obtain permission from the State Agency to appear before their State Administrative Agencies for admin hearings.

Handled my first case in CA in 2015. Pro hac admission to the Superior Court of Los Angeles County. Honestly, I have no idea how you practice in that state. Seriously, it was the most messed up system I have ever seen in my entire career. How the hell can you have discovery continue AFTER the deadline for dispositive motions??? Seriously, it is nearly impossible to demonstrate there are no facts in dispute when plaintiff's counsel can continue discovery after summary judgment. Makes absolutely no sense. So, more power to you for being able to handle it. AlanShearer practices in CA and I had to consult him for some tips on how to handle that little joke of a procedure.

Montana, never been, except passing through when wifie and I drove from MKE to IM CDA. Drove through the middle of the night, so, never saw anything. But, wifie has been there and loves the wide open spaces. So, perhaps some day.

I'm sure you have stories. But, you have to admit it is fun. About 90% of my practice is litigation. While a couple of my partners have done some litigation in the past, I'm the only partner who actually goes to court. Our clients have facilities in about 20 states total, so, that is a lot of ground to cover. But, I like to travel and don't mind hotel rooms. I kill a lot of hours on planes and trains here in the LR.

Anyway, good to "meet" you and hear a little about your background.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You’re in-house counsel doing primarily defense work in federal court or at state admin hearings in your labor and employment practice? Or you have one big primary client?

The vast majority of my cases are state trial and appellate work. I have to dig deep in my memory banks to recall any federal work. I feel like I might remember one state admin hearing in Montana, but I’m not even sure. I had a client who was living the dream of roughing it in the wilds of Montana on a 5 acre parcel (no kidding). They had a huge manure pile from their several cows and were in trouble with the state for environmental violations. Good grief. Their neighbors were also suing them for maintaining a nuisance.

Every case I’ve worked on ends up so interesting. I did a lot of landlord-tenant cases in the Bay Area. Lots of claims for intentional infliction of emotional distress (and punitive damages) with those. I defended asbestos cases, complex construction defect (for various trades, general contractor, design professionals) in Northern and Southern California, Montana, Washington state and Nevada (as just back-up counsel to assist local counsel in WA and NV), auto accident, dog bite, medical malpractice, right now a veterinary malpractice, trip and fall, mold claims, premises liability, and so on.

It’s just amazing how many interesting stories there are. It’s remarkable.

I notice this is the plaintiffs’ amended complaint and it does contain a prayer for punitive damages. Because punitive damages are not covered by insurance (public policy against insuring intentional or willful misconduct) we generally attack those to eliminate them in our initial response to a complaint. I’m guessing defendants did that and didn’t succeed.

Apparently you don’t practice law in Connecticut. I don’t either. We’ll have to wait and see how this plays out.

Private practice. We have about a dozen large clients with facilities in multiple states that occupy most of my time, then a very large number of medium and small clients primarily just in WI.

I actually love Wisconsin, but, would love to live in the wilds of a place like Montana or Colorado. Wifie and I love the mountains. When we win the lottery, we are going to buy a 100+ acre lot, adopt every rescue dog we can find, and play with our pooches every day! Oh well, you can dream ...

Nope, never practiced in CT. I am very curious about the outcome of the case. I do worry about a slippery slope here. Now, that said, I have stated in other threads that while I am a gun advocate, I do not like the marketing. Slowman's position has been the market needs to recognize the issue with the manner in which these firearms are marketed and police themselves to a certain extent. He convinced me and pulled me in on his way on thinking on this point. I learned firearm handling in the Army. I love competition shooting as a civilian. I don't like how the companies are marketing what are tools, not toys. So, yes, it will be interesting.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR