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Re: Sexism in the Navy [DEEPSEADOC/E-9] [ In reply to ]
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DEEPSEADOC/E-9 wrote:
All on line.

Not anymore.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [A-A-Ron] [ In reply to ]
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A-A-Ron wrote:
len wrote:
One would hope that people would not behave this way. However it seems they do and the question is how far do you push the equality issue if it is bound to interfere with operational effectiveness. Submarines are very tight quarters where people literally bunk inches away from each other.

We live in a very schizophrenic society. We want no sexual harassment in the workplace but one just has to turn on the tv or computer and watch people have at it at the drop of a hat. Often without any notion of proper consent. We want to have people exercise restraint but we do very little to give them the tools to do so.


I fail to see what boobies on the internet have to do with sexual harassment in the workplace. I suppose people are just mindless drones that need to be protected from their basic impulses because they have no control over themselves? Are you saying we should legislate even more Puritan ideals for society than we already have?

Boobies on the internet? More like teen age boys with open access to very explicit porn for years. Much of it depicting violence against women. Big porn sites use big data to figure out which things drive people to keep clicking in many ways similiar to the gambling industry. So you have kids with these images banging around their head and we expect a few hours of seminars to counteract that. I don't think it would be puritanical to ban such things. If you think people are so rational how do you explain a group of highly trained people operating a nuclear sub doing this stuff.

Perhaps the real revolutionaries are those that keep their promises.
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [ZimZam] [ In reply to ]
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ZimZam wrote:
Squid ;)

I prefer Bubblehead, thank you :)

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [len] [ In reply to ]
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If you think people are so rational how do you explain a group of highly trained people operating a nuclear sub doing this stuff.

Testosterone?

Honestly, this is not an issue of irrationality or loss of self control. It was a choice to engage in distasteful juvenile behavior. They thought they wouldn't get caught, and probably thought no one was going to be hurt.

Quote:
I don't think it would be puritanical to ban such things

With respect to banning porn, I don't know if it would be "puritanical," but it would surely be nearly impossible to accomplish. They are already banned from viewing porn on the submarine on their government computer networks. Doesn't mean it's impossible, but it would be somewhat challenging, and the IT departments already do screenings to make sure that stuff isn't being viewed on the networks. Of course, they can bring along their own personal computers, or ipads, or magazines, or whatever, and Sailors have been doing this for as long as Sailors and porn existed. Can't really get rid of that, and I'm not convinced you should.

By the way, on the integrated ships I've sailed on, the female Sailors have had some of the nastiest porn and sex toys stashed away on deployments.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
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AutomaticJack wrote:
Don't call me sir. My parents were married to each other.
I need to remember that one. Thx.

Be Uncommon
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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I just finished my annual training on twmms all done until next year. If they have other training scheduled in a classroom, I wasn’t invited nor ordered to attend.
Going to do my suicide prevention and active shooter tomorrow, both online.
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [DEEPSEADOC/E-9] [ In reply to ]
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I think it depends on the leadership of the service and DOD how much and in what format you have to do. I’ve had years where it was all online, and just endured a year of quarterly everything (harassment, suicide prevention, EO, drugs/alcohol...)

******************************
If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [lunchbox] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know about some of you. But life out at the FLOT is not really nice. You want hard charging alpha male types that want to get after it. When you put folks that are segregated by gender some of the behavior degenerates to some juvenile shit I suppose...but it's really not about being segregated. It's that you're at the tip of the spear and you may die the next day. My Cavalry Squadron and my Recce Troop was the first to have a female FSO. If anything, she was worse than her Soldiers when it came to dishing it out. She integrated into the unit just fine. Women talk about men the same way, is that sexism?

Rugby Media Dude-earfulofdirt.com

Hooker training for the Sport of Scrum-Halves [Triathlon]
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
I don't know about some of you. But life out at the FLOT is not really nice. You want hard charging alpha male types that want to get after it. When you put folks that are segregated by gender some of the behavior degenerates to some juvenile shit I suppose...but it's really not about being segregated. It's that you're at the tip of the spear and you may die the next day. My Cavalry Squadron and my Recce Troop was the first to have a female FSO. If anything, she was worse than her Soldiers when it came to dishing it out. She integrated into the unit just fine. Women talk about men the same way, is that sexism?

Probably is, but we care much less about it. And frankly, the threat behind it is lesser than otherwise, although I understand woman can be aggressors too as you said.
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
I don't know about some of you. But life out at the FLOT is not really nice. You want hard charging alpha male types that want to get after it. When you put folks that are segregated by gender some of the behavior degenerates to some juvenile shit I suppose...but it's really not about being segregated. It's that you're at the tip of the spear and you may die the next day. My Cavalry Squadron and my Recce Troop was the first to have a female FSO. If anything, she was worse than her Soldiers when it came to dishing it out. She integrated into the unit just fine. Women talk about men the same way, is that sexism?

Yes it is sexism. Those with experience understand fully that in combat units sexism works only if all understand that they are members of the team, they are "brothers" "shipmates" and they face more important matters to worry about. As a brother, your FSO understood if she was to take than she had to give. A pragmatic "can't beat them might as well join them" workable approach with an appreciable amount of checking self pride. It is a double edge sword however, and unit cohesion is critical to not feeling that other edge. My take is that equal sexism can work as well as zero tolerance no sexism, until it doesn't.
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of things, as officers we never got told that we had to look out for her. There were never any discussions or inferences of lines we had to protect her from. I'm sure she was carefully selected from the female FA officers that joined the FA Battalion that summer. However, when it comes to combat arms units, I've seen soft men not know what they were getting into and be much more of a hindrance to their Soldiers than many female officers. So there's that issue as well.

Rugby Media Dude-earfulofdirt.com

Hooker training for the Sport of Scrum-Halves [Triathlon]
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
A couple of things, as officers we never got told that we had to look out for her. There were never any discussions or inferences of lines we had to protect her from. I'm sure she was carefully selected from the female FA officers that joined the FA Battalion that summer. However, when it comes to combat arms units, I've seen soft men not know what they were getting into and be much more of a hindrance to their Soldiers than many female officers. So there's that issue as well.

Sounds like the command is relying on unit cohesion and skilled leadership to make the inherent sexism in the unit work.
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [Go Pound Sand] [ In reply to ]
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Go Pound Sand wrote:
BCtriguy1 wrote:
torrey wrote:
I think this is a particular issue anytime young men and women interact. Similar story a few years ago with the Harvard soccer teams. But for a submarine crew, this is a far more critical issue.


Its not just young men. Have you never been around a group of women talking about a particular man or group of men? The locker room talk is just as bad.

I will say, that for some reason, men always seem to be stupid enough to write these thoughts down and get busted for them.


Four important rules to live by...
1. Don't write anything down
2. No pictures
3. No video
4. Deny, deny, deny

Someone has taken Management 101...

_____________________
Fester from Detroit, Mi
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Re: Sexism in the Navy [lunchbox] [ In reply to ]
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lunchbox wrote:
I think it depends on the leadership of the service and DOD how much and in what format you have to do. I’ve had years where it was all online, and just endured a year of quarterly everything (harassment, suicide prevention, EO, drugs/alcohol...)

Sailors should be getting online and face to face training on sexual harassment, bystander intervention, SAPR policy and reporting, etc. Additionally, command leadership gets dedicated training on all the processes as well as setting command climate, the SAPR reps get monthly training and continuing education to maintain their Victim's Advocate certifications, etc.

You're right that the requirements for what gets done virtual vs face to face changes frequently.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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