What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration?

Sep 17, 18 6:59

Post #1 of 24 (1042 views)

It isn't cheap, unless you're a brainless politician. But it isn't in the trillions, either. Okay, maybe the billions. Multiples of billions. But we probably spend more on gaming these days, right? ;-)

Some figures from the stats (from GAO, which culled them from FBI, ICE and a state reimbursement program) pulled up by investigative report Sharyl Attkisson:

1. One in five federal prison inmates are "criminal aliens."

2. Ninety-one percent of illegal immigrants come from either Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Columbia or the Dominican Republic.

3. For the time period 2011 to 2016, more than 730,000 "criminal aliens" (her words, not mine) were in prison or jail.

4. For the same period, there were 4.9 million arrests of illegal immigrants for 7.5 million offenses.

5. Though no time frame is given, Attkisson says illegal immigrants committed 1 million drug crimes. As well, there were 663,000 "assaults, sex offenses and kidnappings" tied to illegal immigrants. I can't find the source for her figures for that one, other than as I noted above.

6. For the time period 2010 to 2015, the total cost of such activity came out to $15 billion or $2.5 billion annually.

No secret where I stand on illegal immigration. It has to stop and illegal immigrants (other than, possibly, Dreamers -- who I'm guessig we'll have to make some accommodation for as regards their status) shouldn't receive any sort of amnesty or other benefit from the government. We also need to tighten borders and get a handle on legal immigration, allowing in those who have skills and other attributes necessary to becoming a successful immigrant and not a burden on society immediately upon arriving on our shores. I think our immigration policy should be at least as strict as Mexico's or New Zealand's and not quite as draconian as Japan's. ;-)

As to the whole, "Americans won't do menial jobs" thing, I'm thinking the meme is overhyped more than anything else, if the LA Times is to be believed. They'll do the work, of course, But you have to pay them. But we're also in love with cheap everything, including lettuce and a myriad of other products and services, and so we turn a blind eye towards the issue of illegal immigrants and the labor we cynically ask that they supply.

How this garlic farm went from a labor shortage to over 150 people on its applicant waitlist

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Last edited by: big kahuna: Sep 17, 18 7:01

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 7:18

Post #2 of 24 (1023 views)

big kahuna wrote:

It has to stop

It won't stop. You can just decide how much money you want to throw at managing it.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [trail] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 7:24

Post #3 of 24 (1012 views)

trail wrote:

big kahuna wrote:

It has to stop

It won't stop. You can just decide how much money you want to throw at managing it.

Its really easy to make it stop and do it very cheaply, Allow anyone who wants to be here to be here. Go to an open boarder. Problem solved no more Illegal's.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 7:25

Post #4 of 24 (1009 views)

DavHamm wrote:

trail wrote:

big kahuna wrote:

It has to stop

It won't stop. You can just decide how much money you want to throw at managing it.

Its really easy to make it stop and do it very cheaply, Allow anyone who wants to be here to be here. Go to an open boarder. Problem solved no more Illegal's.

Like drafting in triathlon! Good point.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 7:33

Post #5 of 24 (996 views)

Sounds like more of a drug problem than an immigration problem.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [trail] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 7:39

Post #6 of 24 (992 views)

trail wrote:

DavHamm wrote:

trail wrote:

big kahuna wrote:

It has to stop

It won't stop. You can just decide how much money you want to throw at managing it.

Its really easy to make it stop and do it very cheaply, Allow anyone who wants to be here to be here. Go to an open boarder. Problem solved no more Illegal's.

Like drafting in triathlon! Good point.

Great point, and I think we could fix a lot of problems this way.

Why not do the same thing with speeding, for example? Eliminate speed limits and presto-change-o! Problem solved. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 7:40

Post #7 of 24 (990 views)

And how much do they pay in taxes and how much productivity do they add the economy?

This article is like saying grocery stores cost the American economy 875 billion a year, based on the US Bureu of Labor and Statistics saying we spend $2,600 per year. I think we should get rid of grocery stores, imagine how much more money we would have!

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 8:00

Post #8 of 24 (963 views)

FishyJoe wrote:

Sounds like more of a drug problem than an immigration problem.

Yeah especially if you ignore the homicide 33,000 and the 663,000 "assaults, sex offenses and kidnappings problems.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 8:08

Post #9 of 24 (951 views)

chaparral wrote:

And how much do they pay in taxes and how much productivity do they add the economy?

This article is like saying grocery stores cost the American economy 875 billion a year, based on the US Bureu of Labor and Statistics saying we spend $2,600 per year. I think we should get rid of grocery stores, imagine how much more money we would have!

My response would be; are they paying enough in taxes or are they paying any at all, if they're working for under-the-table wages in some cases?

Also, how many are working with falsified or stolen social security numbers and other forms of fake ID that prevents us from properly levying taxes in the first place?

As well, how much productivity would be created if American citizens were earning those wages, pouring much of it back into their communities, and not remitting billions of that money back to other countries, as we know to be the case in at least Mexico, where anywhere from $22 billion to $27 billion annually is sent back to the country by legal and illegal Mexican immigrants living in the U.S.?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 8:12

Post #10 of 24 (945 views)

YOu are making a great argument for open borders. Get all those jobs and earnings above the table!

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 8:25

Post #11 of 24 (933 views)

How much business profits are created by exploiting them? That seems to be the lynch pin that nobody discusses.

We all know that putting the risk on the people with nothing to lose doesn’t work.

If we actually cared about this beyond lip service we would go after the employers.

How many places are raided repeatedly? Look at the meat packing plants... you want more expensive steaks- round up the owners and managers rather than the workers.

Illegal housekeeper or nanny- BIG fine to the person who hired them.

I’m not saying I support this. I’m just saying blaming the migrants is strange. Instead you should be blaming your neighbor who ILLEGALLY hires them. That is what it would take to seriously curtail it. Why are you not posting angrily about the people that are hiring them?

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 8:31

Post #12 of 24 (921 views)

Also, how many are working with falsified or stolen social security numbers and other forms of fake ID that prevents us from properly levying taxes in the first place?

A lot of them, and that is how we know that they are paying in a huge amount of taxes, money they are never going to collect. Just because it is a stolen or fake card does not mean that they dont pay the taxes. They go in and help the general fund, rather than going back to the person who paid them like they do for you and I. And it is a lot of money, an amount that people like you conveniently like to forget...

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 8:51

Post #13 of 24 (898 views)

You keep claiming you're a libertarian and then wanting to close borders. What's up with that?

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 8:52

Post #14 of 24 (897 views)

big kahuna wrote:

chaparral wrote:

And how much do they pay in taxes and how much productivity do they add the economy?

This article is like saying grocery stores cost the American economy 875 billion a year, based on the US Bureu of Labor and Statistics saying we spend $2,600 per year. I think we should get rid of grocery stores, imagine how much more money we would have!

My response would be; are they paying enough in taxes or are they paying any at all, if they're working for under-the-table wages in some cases?

Also, how many are working with falsified or stolen social security numbers and other forms of fake ID that prevents us from properly levying taxes in the first place?

As well, how much productivity would be created if American citizens were earning those wages, pouring much of it back into their communities, and not remitting billions of that money back to other countries, as we know to be the case in at least Mexico, where anywhere from $22 billion to $27 billion annually is sent back to the country by legal and illegal Mexican immigrants living in the U.S.?

If only, just only....some of that information was out there. I know it won't fit your 'non-political' agenda but I've seen plenty of data indicating that prior to Trump, nearly 50% of undocumented individuals actually filed federal taxes. I seem to recall that group payed over $20 billion in federal taxes.

What gets me is that thought that they don't contribute to the state and local economy. I live in a state without income tax. It blows my mind that legislators love to bang the drum about how immigrants are a drain because they don't pay taxes. They pay almost each and every tax that I do. They don't have a choice. They live somewhere. They buy groceries. They buy gas. Just like I do. I bet the contributions to state and local coffers are $10-15 billion.

Is it an overall net loss? Yes, just like many other government sponsored programs

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [getcereal] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 9:33

Post #15 of 24 (854 views)

getcereal wrote:

FishyJoe wrote:

Sounds like more of a drug problem than an immigration problem.

Yeah especially if you ignore the homicide 33,000 and the 663,000 "assaults, sex offenses and kidnappings problems.

You make it sound like they are independent of each other.

But how many of these crimes are related to the drug trade?

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 9:37

Post #16 of 24 (845 views)

3. For the time period 2011 to 2016, more than 730,000 "criminal aliens" (her words, not mine) were in prison or jail.

Is this a bait-and-switch?

Your post was about the cost of illegal immigration, but "criminal alien" may not be the same as someone who is here illegally. Indeed, it appears that term and the number cited includes aliens here legally but who have been imprisoned for committing crimes.

As someone else posted, this is largely a drug problem and not an illegal alien problem.

But you who never posts politically, go ahead.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 9:41

Post #17 of 24 (836 views)

Quote:

5. Though no time frame is given, Attkisson says illegal immigrants committed 1 million drug crimes. As well, there were 663,000 "assaults, sex offenses and kidnappings" tied to illegal immigrants. I can't find the source for her figures for that one, other than as I noted above.

The lack of corroboration should never stop you from posting the claim, right ;)? The rest of the article seems so impartial, why question it?

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 9:44

Post #18 of 24 (830 views)

big kahuna wrote:

Also, how many are working with falsified or stolen social security numbers and other forms of fake ID that prevents us from properly levying taxes in the first place?

I agree that a falsified or stolen social security number is a big problem. In my opinion, that's a crime much worse than entering illegally.

But that said, what the fuck are you talking about? When someone works with a falsified or stolen social security number, taxes are still levied. It simply means that, in most situations, that individual will never receive any benefits from those payroll taxes. It's a windfall to the system.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 9:45

Post #19 of 24 (828 views)

big kahuna wrote:

Why not do the same thing with speeding, for example? Eliminate speed limits and presto-change-o! Problem solved. ;-)

Actually that worked out better than expected.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 9:49

Post #20 of 24 (822 views)

FishyJoe wrote:

getcereal wrote:

FishyJoe wrote:

Sounds like more of a drug problem than an immigration problem.

Yeah especially if you ignore the homicide 33,000 and the 663,000 "assaults, sex offenses and kidnappings problems.

You make it sound like they are independent of each other.

But how many of these crimes are related to the drug trade?

More importantly, how many of these crimes are committed by aliens here legally? BK's article seems to conflate legal and illegal immigration..

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [torrey] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 9:49

Post #21 of 24 (821 views)

It also worked for alcohol. Prohibition caused all sorts of problems, legalization fixed it, but worsened other problems.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 11:56

Post #22 of 24 (774 views)

But let's talk about the true value of illegal emmigration.

They work cheap

They work like dogs

They can't speak up

You don't have to pay ssi, taxes, etc, etc

You don't have to have any insurance for them

etc

etc

Want to stop all these nasty little brown people from coming here; prosecute the illegal employers who hire them!

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 12:15

Post #23 of 24 (763 views)

Moonrocket wrote:

How much business profits are created by exploiting them? That seems to be the lynch pin that nobody discusses.

We all know that putting the risk on the people with nothing to lose doesn’t work.

If we actually cared about this beyond lip service we would go after the employers.

How many places are raided repeatedly? Look at the meat packing plants... you want more expensive steaks- round up the owners and managers rather than the workers.

Illegal housekeeper or nanny- BIG fine to the person who hired them.

I’m not saying I support this. I’m just saying blaming the migrants is strange. Instead you should be blaming your neighbor who ILLEGALLY hires them. That is what it would take to seriously curtail it. Why are you not posting angrily about the people that are hiring them?

Not that easy my friend.

I have had employees with social security cards that look just like mine. You process the paperwork and they get a W2. Once I had a letter sent to me from the Fed... I called and discussed it. They said to just verify the social security numbers were not typos. That was it. No coincidence everyone requested was Hispanic on the list. I was told to not do anything.

I had an employee who went to jail and deported. 2 years later he was at work asking for a job. He handed me a drivers license and it was an entirely new identity. No shit. I told him no way I wanted to be a part of that. He started to cry and I felt awful. Grown man crying. I told the story to a temp service owner and he said I should have hired him back. He said you don’t know if the identity he gave me was his real identity. Omg.

People talk openly at work about how thit y are trying to “get their papers”. Yet, there isn’t much you can do if they provide the paperwork.

Re: What's the True Cost of Illegal Immigration? [jharris] [ In reply to ]

Sep 17, 18 12:27

Post #24 of 24 (756 views)

Just FTR, there are about 40M SSN assigned to more than one person, and about 20M folks with more than one SSN.
Many of those not related to immigration at all, but to errors in SSN assignments, tax fraud, etc.

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