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Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel
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When I did an Ironman 10 years ago, I recall using Perpetuem Cafe Latte as my primary fuel with great success, mixing in a couple Bonk Breaker bars to stave off hunger getting about 250-300 cal/hr (I weight 155 lb) over 6.5 hours = ~2K calories. I mixed it up extra concentrated and froze it, but I just can't for the life of me remember the specifics of how I executed my plan. I am wondering if others could give me some tips so I can cut a few cycles out of my experiments.

Ideally, I'd mix up just one 21 oz bottle to last me ~6 hours on the bike so I'm not hauling a ton of extra weight up the mountains in IM Canada.

Is this a viable starting point:
1) One bottle of Perpetuem - 4 Servings = 1K calories, 100mg caffeine
2) 4 Bonk Breaker Bars = 1K calories
Alternate a squirt of perpetuem and 1/3 of a Bonk Breaker bar every 15 minutes.
3) Chase with water on course, carry two water bottles on course between aid stations,
4) 1-2 Salt Sticks per hour

Some logistical questions:
1) Do you drop off your bike and special needs bag race morning? I'm just trying to figure out how to drop off the frozen bottle race day
2) Drinking the water bottle on course -- are they in good sport top bottles?
3) I was thinking of putting the Perpetuum bottle on my downtube (less likely to drop?), and the 2 water bottles in back behind saddle.
4) Would you mix a 2nd Perpetuem bottle and put in bike special needs bag, just in case it gets dropped

I ride a road bike, no aero bars, so I'm using real bottles, none of the center mounted sippy cup stuff.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly, I'm shocked anyone drinks Perpetuem.
The soy protein goes funky in the heat and always caused me stomach issues.
Sorry that doesn't help much.

All my best IM have been done by just drinking and eating as I feel.
Usually 2-3 bars, 4-6 gels, whatever sport drink was on the course and water. And a lot of coke on the run.
It allowed me to adapt easily to whatever happened on the day
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel

That's easy. Don't.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Count me as another person that doesn't get Perpetuem. I tried it once for training and it went nasty super fast in the Houston heat. Never again. I think all of Hammer's products are garbage.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Hmm, I’ve never had a problem with it so long as you freeze it the night before and allow it to thaw during a long workout. Though yes, this has always seemed like a rather clumsy solution.

But I’m open to other product suggestions. I recognize it’s been 10 years since my last long course race and lots of new / perhaps better stuff is on market.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [logella] [ In reply to ]
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logella wrote:
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Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel


That's easy. Don't.

x2.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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I'll pile on with a solid X 3 on this one. If Perp is what you want and like to use, then do it, no matter what we think. I know that I've had poor results in the past with it. I have gone to Carbo Pro with great results. Some will bash that as well though.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Bought perpetuem as my first liquid nutrition. Switched to Infinit Go Far right afterwards (pretty excited that I just realized my local shop actually carries the Go Far on the shelf instead of having to order online). Felt much better on the stomach. 6 hour rides and no problem with it going bad so far. Just use room temperature water from the start.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, X4. I always had much better luck with something similar to what NordicSkier outlines. I finally switched from things like Perpetuem and Infinit for not only the subjective things like taste, consistency, etc but also the fact that if you launch a bottle you're out of fuel. If I launch whatever's on the course, not really a big deal as I can just get another one from the next aid station while I supplement with whatever gels / water I have stashed.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I don't like Perpetuem. If you are looking to try other products, I have had good success with Tailwind and Infinite. Tailwind has no protein, Infinite often does (with and without are both options). Perpetuem has protein so if you like protein and it works well for you, you may choose to use Infinite with protein. I recommend you try both.

To answer your logistical questions, you usually drop off the bike the day before and special needs the morning of. You will have access to your bike in the morning however, so bring your nutrition in the morning and put it on your bike accordingly. This allows you to freeze a bottle and put it on your bike in the morning, even though you have dropped your bike off the day before. For special needs, you bring that in the morning anyway. I do recommend having a bottle with spare nutrition in your special needs bag. I do this and only plan to use it if I loose my original nutrition. You don't necessarily need to have your special needs nutrition as concentrated though because if you are stopping to get the bottle, you are already halfway through the race so you wont need as much at that point.

Water on the course comes in a sport bottle and it will fit in your cages.

As for where to place your nutrition bottle, go wherever makes the most sense for you. BTS bottles can eject. I combat this by wrapping my nutrition bottle in hockey tape so it is in there really tight with some grip. It is a PITA to remove and put back, but I use my nutrition bottle to squirt a portion of it into my between the arms bottle (BTA) so I am only accessing the BTS bottle once per hour. I stopped freezing my nutrition bottles. First, it heats up so quick, it doesn't help much to have it frozen. Second, frozen bottles eject much easier because they form a frost on the outside.

My advice to you is to experiment a lot in training. Try a few different products and see what works best. I am all liquid for the bike as I have found that to digest best for me. If I were to eat a bonk breaker on the bike, I would have GI issues on the run. That is personal, but I know this through experimentation. Try new things, see what works best and refine your plan.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [TennesseeJed] [ In reply to ]
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BTS bottles can eject

Is this still a huge problem for everyone? I know there are better cages out there now. I've never had a bottle eject. I do use Gorilla Cages though. I plan to have 3 bottles of nutrition (one in special needs just in case I lose one). But I'm more concerned about dropping one out of my hand than ejecting from the cage. I also throw some gels in my pockets as an extra precaution. Reality is that's all probably overkill. And if I dropped a bottle with nothing else available, I'd probably stop and get it. Again, I'm assuming I drop it from my hands and not an ejection, so I'm aware I lost it.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [KG6] [ In reply to ]
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I use gorilla cages as well, the XT ones with extra force to grip the bottle. I still eject from time to time when I hit a big bump or go over RR tracks too fast. Not often, but it happens enough in training that I will put tape on my bottle in races for extra grip and that solves the issue for me.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Just thinking of this product makes me want to puke.

Infinit or Tailwind if I need something available locally.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [KG6] [ In reply to ]
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Happens every so often to me. They're just a little too expensive for me. I zip tied an Elite cage to the back of my saddle and I'm hoping it'll be a little better
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I always use Perpetuem for racing. I drink two concentrated bottles (3-4 scoops) on the bike. That's about it. I also drink Gatorade, water and what ever else they handout on the course (Gu, bars, cookies, water). I go with whatever appeals to me or whatever I can get.
People like to blame nutrition for their race problems but the real problem is usually nerves or being undertrained.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [TennesseeJed] [ In reply to ]
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Some of these answers are pretty hilarious actually. Thanks TennesseeJed. Super helpful response. I ordered a sampler of Infinit, and am looking forward to trying that.

I've had good luck with Perpetum in the past, but it seems like they've changed their formula or something because it had a super artificial taste when I just tried it. I don't remember that....

Whether I go Perpetum (or something else), what are people's thoughts on the multi-hour bottle + water, vs mixing 6 single hour bottles (3 on bike, 3 in special needs) so everything is "isotonic." I mean, seems like I'll be carrying 2-3 bottles at a time no matter what anyway.

I like the idea of hockey taping the bottles, and rotating the "in use" bottle to the downtube and storing the backups in back. The only thing worse than an unwanted ejection on the bike is an unwanted erection.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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HAHA... I do not like the idea of having 6 nutrition bottles. I prefer a "sludge mixes" with 5 hours or so worth of nutrition. Here is what I do:

I plan for about 5 hours worth of nutrition mix. I start with one concentrated bottle that has 4 hours worth of tailwind or infinite. I have a between the arms bottle (xlab torpedo that can be refilled on the fly). The torpedo starts an IM with one hour worth of tailwind or infinite. Behind the seat, I have two bottles to start, one water, one with the 4 hour bottle. I drink the BTA while riding in the first hour. After an hour, squirt a quarter of the sludge mix into the bta and fill the rest with water. When my water runs out, I grab water from the aid stations as needed to mix in my bta with the tailwind, drink when I need straight water, and wash piss off my legs as needed.

I then place a second 2 hour tailwind bottle in my special needs just in case I need it, but never intend to stop at special needs unless I need supplies. I also carry about 600cal of gu in a flask in case something happens where I loose all my tailwind, or I just get sick of it. The gel flask comes with me on the run as well.

Again, it is all highly personal. Experiment, experiment, experiment!
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [Bifff] [ In reply to ]
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I've been a long-time Perpetuem user and have generally liked it, but I've also experienced it going bad during warmer races (IM Boulder 2015). It wasn't good.

My training partner has been using Maurten and Fluid products lately and is raving about them. The reports I've seen are good. FWIW, I'm going to give them a whirl. I don't have experience with Infinit so can't comment there.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
logella wrote:
Quote:
Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel


That's easy. Don't.


x2.

x3. I dig Hammer as a company, but I've never ever been able to run very well after drinking it on the bike. Different people have different experiences though, so definitely experiment and figure out what works for you. For Ironman, I wound up going with gels and sports drink. Tasty and it got me all the calories I needed. I trained with the sports drink they had on-couse, and had a good experience picking up bottles on the course.
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I have been using Perpetuem for over a decade. I struggled using it in longer races. Tried freezing, wrapping in foil. Then I starting mixing the bottles in T1 and at special needs on the bike.
I put 6 scoops in a bottle without water and have another bottle of water. I mix then once I finish the swim in T1. Takes a few seconds and is well worth it. I do the same at special needs. I used the Latte flavor in the past but when they came out with chocolate I jumped on that right away and loved it. Good luck on the upcoming race!
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Re: Tips for using Perpetuem as primary IM fuel [ride_4ever] [ In reply to ]
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ride_4ever wrote:
I've been a long-time Perpetuem user and have generally liked it, but I've also experienced it going bad during warmer races (IM Boulder 2015). It wasn't good.

My training partner has been using Maurten and Fluid products lately and is raving about them. The reports I've seen are good. FWIW, I'm going to give them a whirl. I don't have experience with Infinit so can't comment there.

You got that wrong, it may be an acquired taste, but it gets better with age, not like red wine, more like bleu cheese.
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