Yeah, you're right- but let me make some comparisons for the purpose of a reality check:

1. I read an ad for a Nissan X-Terra and the truck looked cool. I considered buying one when I found out I could afford it. Trouble was, the one I could afford was about $27,000. The one in the picture was over $35,000. Welcome to the real world.
2. I just bought a ski vacation to Banff a few weeks ago. I figured I'd be out about $1500 for the whole thing. Oops, still have to eat, and a rental car would be nice. Better get my girlfriend some flowers for V-day. Hmm, now its about $2200.
3. Two years ago I met a nice girl with a beautiful figure. We dated. We dated some more. We wound up in a non-clothed configuration. Her beautiful figure was, well, bought and paid for, not born-with. Hmmm. No truth in advertising.

Bottom line: I think the majority of people understand the photos depict bikes in their "optimal configuration". And if they don't, it actually says so on the site. And if you miss that, it is shown in the parts kit spec page. I don't think it's misleading, just my opinion.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

you are absolutely right, 100%.

But please reread your post. Every point you make is written in a way that shows how unhappy you are about that too, including the girly figure. So why does everybody have to play the same game, why not post a top of the line P3 and put a 4k$ tag on there and give the option of a lesser speced bike.

Cervelo has taken over the triathlon marked in a couple years, they did so by being different, so why not taking it all the way and be honest in their advertisement. If I can't trust in a add I can't in the bike.

PS: At least with the bike you have the option of rebaging it and sending back, with the girl that's more difficult.

The P3 in the picture is also 700c, whereas you may buy a 650c bike. Do you want me to reimburse you for the 50c you're not getting? :-)

Seriously though, one mea culpa is in order, in the ad we did that lists the 2003 bikes, we listed the P3 with the standard price but without a mention of the fact that the bike pictured was not the standard bike. The second run of that same ad had this corrected. I felt that although most people understand that $3199 won't buy you a P3 with Zipp 909's, we should state this explicitely when we show the bike with the price tag.

Everywhere else we show the price, the spec is nearby so there shouldn't be any confusion (like on the website).

I don't really see the cheating part (aside from the aforementioned ad that I thought was not 100%). Cervelo is a frame company, you can buy the P3 frameset or bike, and they are built up in a variety of ways. And when I go to a race, I see more P3s with race wheels than with the training wheels we sell them with, so showing the P3 as such (in its element as it were) seems logical to me. Showing the One with 909's would be a different story, both because we don't sell it as a frameset and because most One owners would race the bike with the spec'd wheels.

But I would like to know what the general consensus is, as obviously we don't want to make people feel cheated.

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Point taken, however, I mentioned your post to a couple people here in the store and we quickly paged through three bikes catalogs. The only ones that showed the bikes as speced were Cannondale. Having said that, I think the complete P3 for the price shown with the parts kit specified that it comes with IS a very, very good deal. I don't think anyone would be disappointed with it if the bike fit them and was an appropriate choice. I do see your point though. Hmmm. As for the girl, I did send her back, but not because of an "artificial" body (as far as I'm concerned, if you can touch them they're real), but because of her "artifical" motives. You won't find that problem with a bike.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Yes, Gerard, how much do you think you should pay me for that missing 50c?

Seriously, I think this poster is unfairly singling out Cervelo because there is some kind of perception around this site that the people here feel "everyone has to have a Cervelo." That's been proven completely untrue.

To be fair, I have in front of me the Jan. 2003 issue of Triathlete magazine. In the Cervelo ad on page 23 the only bike pictured with race wheels is the P3, which I agree only makes it appear to be "in its element."

The Guru ad on page 31 of the same issue also pictures the Guru Crono with a disc wheel and Zipp 909 front wheel. Why not single out Guru for "false advertising?" And on page 92, in addition to the P3 with Zipp disc and 909 front, the Kestrel KM40 and Softride Rocket TT each have slick-looking race wheels. So why single out Cervelo?

-David in Taipei

---

American's are definately infekting the world with there English grammer.

ok let me give you my not so sarcastic point of view.
I bought a Principia about 10 years ago and I'm still racing it and I love it but my bankaccount might allow me now to get a new race bike. So I'm looking around. You are right, If I spend that kind of money I will know what I want and won't get fooled by zipp's on the add. However, how does a P3 with Syntace Streamliner and Ritchey Aero DS look like? Anyhow, I will find that the P3 is a very good deal for the price and I seriously consider getting one but while I was shopping the web and cathalogs for a new bike this just striked me and It leaves a bitter aftertaste.

Gratulations on a very very sexy bike!

"However, how does a P3 with Syntace Streamliner and Ritchey Aero DS look like?"

take the picture of the P3 and imagine the frame with a syntace streamliner aero bar and a ritchey aero DS wheels. that's what it'll look like.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

As a happy owner of 3 Cervelo bikes in the family I must admit that it could make some think the bike came as pictured. On your website, as near as I can tell, all of your bikes are pictured as spec'd except for the P3 and P2T.

Now I wasn't confused for very long (.004 seconds) and I think you can find what wheels are spec'd almost anywhere you can find the price listed. I just assumed there was some sort of joint advertising agreement between Cervelo and Zipp. By the way I would like to order 4 of the P3's with the Zipp wheelsets for $3199 in a variety of sizes if you please.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

it's not for what you get but still; you don't get what you see and it pisses me off that all the bike companies have to do that, it's very limit to cheating!

Come on get over it - everyone is doing it, that's advertising for you. Just look at the PC, car ads etc. they show the top of the line product and then somewhere on the bottom in small print; - monitor not incl., Price starts at... etc.

As an educated consumer you should know better.

The P2T you bring up is another issue. It only comes as a frameset, so would that mean we can only show it as such? I think people have a better idea of what it looks like if it is built up. We're facing the same issue with the R2.5.

With the P3 (indeed the only Cervelo not shown as sold, aside from the P2T issue), the point could be made either way. If we show it with training wheels, people will ask what it looks like with the race wheels and vice versa. Hence the split between the P2K and the P3, we show one with the standard kit, one with the tricked out stuff. Toss them together shake them and you know what a P3 with training wheels looks like.

And honestly, I think we might sell more P2Ks if we showed it with carbon wheels, but I don't think that is the right thing to do (even though a fair number show up at the races that way and it is sold as a frameset). Even the Soloist Team bike, which we could easily have shown with Zipps and all sorts of cool stuff to make it look like an exact team replica, is shown in our catelog with the exact kit we sell. Man, we really missed some opportunities :-)

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

What a STUPID complaint!!!!!!!

My god...welcome to marketing 101.

I know, Cervelo should show their bikes with Shimano / Lee Chi setup rolling some 36 spoke steel wheels and balloon tires. Giant ass gel seats flat pedals and high rise bars. PULEEEEEZE!

You know what I did - when I got my Softride I just told them to make it JUST LIKE the picture. That way I am happy. 909's and all.

I hope you make the same complaint at McDonalds because the Big Mac looks much bigger and prettier in the pictures than in real life.

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

And you should change the title of this thread "cervelo: what you see is not what you get!"



Truth is with Cervelo - what you see, and what you get...is a great bike.

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

In Cervelo's defense, they are following a common practice in the car business of ALWAYS using the tricked out verison of a car with ALL the options on, in any advertisng and promotional material. Even the show-room cars at dealerships have all the nice little exterior options to make a car look nice.

Then you go out on the lot and look at the basic model( You know, the one you can actually afford) and it looks a little different. No spoiler. No Aluminum wheels. No moon/sun roof. No pin-striping. . . and so on.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Nicely put. However, if you watch the Cadilac commercials now you'll notice they have stopped doing that. They just post their middle model of the car. But, as far as price goes I guess there still pretty decked out. Why doesn't any bike company do that? Completly build a bike. Trek kinda did it with the Hilo, but I guess that didn't work to well. O well!

---

I don't work here, I just live here

Honestly I think that its lame that every add...including catalogs...show the P3 with the zipps and then fine print points out otherwise. To be fair, the price itself makes it pretty obvious the bike is without the zipps. Sure everyone in marketing does it blah blah blah...but it still doesn't take away the lameness factor, but I am not losing any sleep over it. The price is fair as it is though.

I love my P2K but the paint and decal quality is far more questionable than its advertising practices... I have a 2001 and everytime I turn around it chips as opposed to my other non-cervelo bikes which I have had some up to 10 years...its just that my newest bike looks like my oldest...paint job wise. Granted I would rather have a fast bike than one that looks good..but it would be great to have both.

No we don't, we never have fine print pointing out otherwise. Listen, the P3 as shown is for sale from any of our dealers. The catalog and ads show a bike that is available exactly as shown. And there is not even a price listed in any of these publications, so you can't claim that we pretend to sell it with the Zipps for a certain price (with the one exception as mentioned above). When we list a price, like on the website, we also list the exact spec there.

I don't understand why it upsets people when we show a bike you can buy (and in my view should buy) with race wheels. But I think I know what I'll do, on Monday I'll add a line to our price list on our website price list, it will then read:

P3 frameset US$ 2099

P3 complete with DuraAce US$ 3199

P3 complete with DuraAce and Zipp 909 US$ 4599

I presume that takes away any complaints there may be about showing a P3 with Zipps in our ads?

A little side note, 18% of the P3s at IMFL this year had the stock wheels, 32% had Zipps, the rest were other aftermarket wheels. So the P3 photo simply reflects reality.

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

I am talking about some of the mail order catalogs/sites...I haven't seen anything on Cervelo's website or even the Cervelo ads I have seen in magaines about it that way etc...so hopefully you don't take it that way.

No my only issue was that the picture isn't of a "standard" spec. P3...but then again if your going to buy a high end bike you usually have your own personal tastes/upgrades you will add anyway...and like I said though I think the practice is kind of lame...its also obvious that the price is without the zipps...I mean come on Zipps-$1000+, a frame that goes for about $2000+, a dura ace set up....and a bunch of other tasty bits....you would be a fool to think that you were getting those Zipps and upgrades for free. I added some zipps to my bike and didn't mind paying extra for it and planned on it...good bikes cost money!

Its a standard practice that everyone does...just part of marketing but I still don't have to like it, but at the same time it isn't going to stop me from possibly buying another Cervelo in the future.

I hadn't thought of other people's catalogs and websites, that's a bit harder to control I guess. Thanks for the feedback.

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Another good example of this is the Quintana Roo Tiphoon. They show it tricked up with Zipp deep on front and disc back rear. But of course, they don't offer the Zipp combo in their upgrade package. Offer every other type of wheel though. Good on you QR. You almost fooled me.

OzTri.

Australia - where there is no need for wetsuits! So the ITU rules state...

this is hands down the most ridiculous bike complaint i have ever seen. if you are in a position to be buying a p3 and zipp 909's the onus is on you to know what the hell you are buying. the photo is a courtesy to show the potential of the cutting edge machine - it is not a "trick" to lure unsuspecting buyers. good lord. i have a friend who works in vegas at a shop where he says idiots come in all the time and want simply " the best bike made", and will pay whatever it costs as my buddy racks his brain to find the most expensive stuff he can - i guess this is the sort of question/complaint these fools would have.

play it nice will you?

I changed the subject title on top cause I don't think cervelo is worth than others, contrary.

The initial post was thought of a more general style. Why do we all accept that companies try to sell stuff by making an offer between the lines and then you fall down when you get the real deal?
Nobody seems to care, or probably most people don't admit it.

Again, be nice ok.
the way you post things doesn't make you better than those you write to.

alright egret, i apologize - that was poor of me. the reason nobody caresis because most of us realize that a top end bike is built with persoanl touches in things like wheels and controls and componants. most of us WANT to pick our own stuff at that level. a p3 is not a price point bike, with product mangers scurrying to taiwan to try to find the highest impressionable part for the cheapest price to eek out an edge on a similar bike from a competitor. the p3 is a top flite machine whichs almost begs for the consumer to be educated in what he or she needs and desires for his or her needs. the photo's you describe, then - exist as POTENTIALS of what the bike can be. the old saying - if you have to ask......." comes to mind. next race you go to look at the p3's you see. i will bet you dollars to doughnuts you will not seeand identically equipped bike there, such as you see with, say a gaggle of tequilos.

HA! Hey Timbo, when you finally make it out to So.Cal for a ride or two, I'll take you by Supergo where they have P3's lined up on a bike rack with all the other bikes by them...kinda looks like Walmart...Target....Shopko! ;-) Your "if you have to ask..." phrase seems to lose a bit of luster in this monstrosity of a shop ;-) (the Laguna Hills one)

---

Craig Preston - President / Preston Presentations
Saving the world with more professional, powerful, and persuasive presentations - one audience at a time.

yah, well like in most things so cal doesn't count. you can find lamborghini's, yacht's, and - so i am told, GIRLS ( surgically enhanced, even ) like that too out there. although, presumably not all at supergo. still, you don't go to hollywood blvd for the best price on silicone products, and you don't buy a p3 because it is a cheap way to get a DA group. at least, that is what they teach us here on the farm. :)

I can't remember seeing a more ridiculous thread. This is like complaining that they use pretty models in the coke commercial - or - when I went to the local walmart, the folks shopping looked nothing like those in the commercials... get real, it only makes sense to show your product in the best light. When you send out a resume, do you include all of the mistakes, firings and stupid things that you have done in your career?

I am a little late on this debate, but agree with Tom and the Cervello folks. At least they give you many options. My complaint is that many bike companies are now only selling the entire bike and you can not get a frame by itself. This sucks as most of us acquire our parts and wheels bit by bit to avoid the rath of our loved ones (or hide the fact that we are spending so much on our bikes). This new trend requires that you either scrap your entire old bike or sell it even if all you want is a new frame.