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Training without "liability" - RE, EPIC Camp
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Scott Molina finally said what I've always suspected about IM training. Pushing the envelope works! Ya, ya, ya, you need to rest too.

I have heard more than one coach say, "do as I say, not as I do". And these are coaches that used to be at the top of the IM game as athletes.

So what does that tell you?

Dan once commented on doing 3-4 day mega rides, basically 100 miles a day back to back. I tried that last year and it boosted my endurance tremendously for the rest of my training cycle. Most IM plans don't have you riding more than 4 100+ mile rides in an entire training cycle, let alone doing them back to back.

Mike
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Re: Training without "liability" - RE, EPIC Camp [Mike Clark] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for saying what ive been saying for awhile too---- it think i posted on here that i believe going long is essential. I race oly dist races, and i can divide my season in half by a day in May and a day in August in which i went over 100 miles. Theres no reason to ride over a 100 miles for a 24 mile race, no coach would have recommended it. But im a different athlete because of it. I think a lot of things are individual, including this. If youre a beginner going for a 2 hr ride might be uncharted territory---and for a veteran it might have to take a 9 hr ride to push the boundaries of craziness.

For the last 3 months i havent a day off from training, ive swam, biked or ran. Rest means a 2k swim emphasizing drills or a 60 min spin practicing cadence. And im doing better than ever (just knocked on wood). I've tried rest, ive tried moderation, ive tried being reasonable and following moderation. Now im trying clockwork consistency, periodization, and long hours. Whatya, know im faster now than i was then.

But i totally agree with you, i think Paula (the reason i mention her, is because in one of her articles in triathlete she mentioned how she'd never schedule on any of her athletes a workout session that she went through back in the 80's)and many of those other stars of IM underestimate the effect that going long had on their physiology and development.

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Re: Training without "liability" - RE, EPIC Camp [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Part of the challenge is that so many new people are coming into the sport( That's a good thing), but they are jumping up to the longer race distances within a year or two( not such a good thing) So we have a guy/gal who has been cycling for just two years thinking of doing an Ironman. Nothing wrong with that, but that's a pretty steep fitness curve to climb. My sense is that's why many coaches are cautious with the training. However, someone with a hardcore back-ground, with years and years of endurance training behind them - that's something completely different. For these types, they are I believe often doing themselves a disservice by booking into one of these "training programs". What these types need to do, is more Epic Camp type of training. Not in actual practice, because the numbers those guys were throwing down were huge, but Epic Camp type of push-the-limit type of training to break through to the next level. Often this means ditching the HRM, the "training program", leaving you own personal limits at home and hooking up with much better athletes and really going for it. Is their a risk? Yes, there is, and Scott Molina touched on this in his summary. But quite honestly, if you do this and you do it right it is the biggest bang for your buck in terms of performance improvemnt.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Training without "liability" - RE, EPIC Camp [Mike Clark] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. It's ironic people are so worried about doing "too much" when we all probably need more.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Training without "liability" - RE, EPIC Camp [Mike Clark] [ In reply to ]
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I'm cynical about the coaching thing and I don't mean to diasgree with Scott on the concept of liability being the reason why low volume is pushed. I think the coaches undertrain their athletes because it is self-serving and keeps an athlete on the program. Let's face it. The drop-out rate can be high when you are really drilling it in training. Even if you can hang, you are tired, will underperform at your (real) job, may be less supported by your family in your pursuit because of the need to rest lots, and guess what...you blame your coach for pushing you too hard and you go find somebody else or do it on your own. Too many coaches want LOTS of athletes that they more or less put thru the same format and the coach can either sit back or hire no-name underlings to help out and meanwhile wa-la he has a cush job with a steady income stream. I've read Scott's website and while at some levels I am disappointed that I wouldn't meet his criteria for coachability ( ie I cannot marginialize my whole life for triathlon , not even for an 8 week block) I respect him for getting that out of the way early. What he's saying is: I trained one way and that was without shortcuts and that is how I will coach. I would love to work with him because of his knowledge and experience but at least I won't waste time considering it. I have been coached by a former top athlete and he basically held me back on everything except swimming and I know it is because he was afraid I would get injured and drop out. Guess what, I dropped oout anyway because we could never agree on training principles. And I think that is what is going on all around today...coaches popping up everywhere telling you can do IMs on nothing. It's no different than the "PR" article you see in Runners World every month (10 K PR in 3 weeks, run your best marathon on half the time,blah blah blah). I hope these guys doing this to athletes will eventually pay the price by having to get a real job not connected with triathlon.
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