I'm always left thinking that it seems a bit over the top to continue with these sort of adventures once you have kids.

But then again, I'm never quite sure how these sorts of folks are supporting themselves?

I guess it seems more understandable if they make decent money doing these things, but if it's really just about the adventure of it all, maybe tone it down and be there for your kids.

I have to agree with you. If a person has made a conscious choice to have kids their needs should come before your need for adventure. Especially when the risk is as high as it is in Mountaineering. Maybe I'm wrong but I find it pretty selfish.

I go both ways on this. Yes, you are absolutely responsible to be there for your children, however, part of that is also training/raising your kids the way you want. And one of those aspects is to teach them to chase their dreams and dream big. Go after what you want and succeed. So in that respect, this mother certainly showed her kids that dreaming big can pay off. It's just heartbreaking that it ended like this.

That seems like cold comfort for not having a mother, but then again we don't know anything about the kids or their relationship with their mother. She could have been a top notch mom and will be dearly missed, or already hardly ever there and off doing her own thing and not really terribly involved in raising the kids.

Fixed.

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Yup, that's why I can go both ways on this. Just this past week I was in BC hiking a pretty dangerous trail and I slipped and fell off a cliff only to be saved by one of the only trees on the cliff. Some might say what I was doing was risky but I wouldn't. I am/was well equipped to be there and know my stuff, however one small slip on the trail/hidden root and I was almost dead. That level of mountaineering for her may have been the same. Very confident in her abilities and just one small thing happened. I can't judge her in this case.

A local guide that had been working with the couple told Outside magazine that other climbers who were with them reported that "her ski blade skidded off and [she] fell off the other side of the peak".

Pushing the envelope, addiction, adrenaline & living or in this case dying on the edge !

After many climbs, My last climb was Rainier, not compared to this but my kids told Mom do you now what the hell he is doing ?

Agreed.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

There would be an awful lot of jobs that went away or were dramatically different if people adhered to this concept. Tons of sports, military, law enforcement, etc.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I think part of the issue here is that is this really a job? I think people give more leeway if the risk you're taking is at least providing some financial benefit to your family.

Also, it's curious what jobs we view as dangerous.

https://www.ishn.com/...in-the-united-states


Who would have guessed being a crossing guard is more dangerous than being a cop and for a lot less money?

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I was thinking more along the lines of jobs where "adventure" is part of the allure, despite the risk. I'm not sure many people take up being a crossing guard for the adventure.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Mark twight n kiss or kill wrote all about those he lost in mountaineering / extreme alpinism

He wrote about the time a coffin was removed from the service in Chamonix

It's a dangerous game

While I personally agree with you I do also feel like this is a stigma we place on women. There are tons of dads doing the same thing and usually the response is totally different. Died what they loved doing blah, blah, blah.

Just to be clear, I am not admonishing her because she is a woman. I feel the same whether it is a man or woman. You've chosen to have kids, you need to do your best to be there for them.

She was one of North Face’s premier athletes. This was definitely her job. One of those where you don’t feel like you have to work a day in your life.

What she did walked a fine line on nearly every adventure. Easy to say in hindsight, but it was likely only a matter of time. Incredibly sad nonetheless.

I've always felt the same way about men who have kids that do this sort of stuff. That being said, I've got to think the vast majority of the time, especially if the kids are young, losing your mother is a far greater traumatic experience than losing your father.

For another perspective, flip the question around. Rather than take parental status as a given (and ask whether the person ought to take adventure risks), ask whether someone into risky adventures (athletes, astronauts, military, mountaineers, etc.) should have kids. I have great difficulty saying the answer is no. There is a non-trivial chance their kids will lose that parent relatively early in life, but the far greater likelihood is that won't happen. I won't judge them for having kids, but would hope they would be thoughtful about the risks they take.

Yeah, but the issue is that all the high level "extreme" (lack of a better category) athletes understate their risk. They have too in order to do it. They think that they have mitigated their risk down to an acceptable level, but it is much higher than they think.

Look at avalanches, wing suit flying, rockfall, etc. There are no old/bold pilots.

I was just thinking about that with regard to wing suit flying. I watched a youtube about it recently and it was folks talking about how great it is and also about how almost everyone that does it very long dies. The one lady being interviewed had met her husband doing it and he died. She then married one of his friends in the wingsuit community and he died too.

I used to skydive, drive very fast on two wheels machines and do some stupid shit. That all ended when I had kids and I have no regrets. I told the kids once I am seventy and they are no longer needing my money or advice, I am going to take up squirrel suiting. It may kill me but at that point, I have lived long and better to go out that way than in a nursing home.

At the risk of bringing the other forum into this, how about pro triathletes with kids. Should they stop? It's risky - 3 threads just this week, one about an age grouper triathlete killed on the bike before going to Kona, one of a swim deaths at a 70.3, and another about Kat Matthews being taken out by a car in a crash that could have had much worse consequences. Then Rappstar, Tim Don, etc etc all being hit by cars / trucks that could have killed them. For what ? A poorly paid job of swimming, riding a bike and them running a long way on the trot.
It's not like they are firefighters or rescue workers doing some greater good for society. Should tri be limited to single people with no dependents only.

I think it's less that they understate the risk but, slightly differently, that they delude themselves into thinking that they have better judgment than those who have died before.

It’s easy to 2nd guess, but of all places it sounds like Manaslu is not where you want to be skiing after a heavy snow year. Well known for avalanches during and after heavy snow. The same day she triggered an avalanche, albeit small, that took her life, another absolutely massive avalanche killed another and wounded many. The serac that popped was the size of my town’s Main Street area. I’ll miss seeing her new media. I’ll have her old stuff on replay along with David Lama, Dean Potter, Marc-Andre, et all.

Serac avalanche on Manaslu -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjBOxqoxzsc

That video is terrifying. I could not imagine a mountain of snow/ice, breaking off and sliding down the mountain to ward me and my companions

I think most people would say they aren't the same (or at least don't feel to be the same) because the risk from cycling is largely about someone making a mistake and therefore doesn't really seem inherent to the activity, whereas with "extreme" athletes they are often enough engaging in something where it's "extreme" precisely because the risk is so high, maybe the cycling equivalent would be something like descending a mountain while dodging in and out of traffic.

Now whether this perception is accurate or not is a different question. We'd need some sort of data on serious injuries/mortality per hour to determine that.

question -- she and her partner were on same expedition --

is he the father of her kids? Maybe not . . .

but if he is i have a lot less room for two parents taking same risky trip than one mother . . .

Certainly if he was doing the dangerous bit as well.

He is not the biological father. Not sure if he had adopted them. Obviously I imagine he was some sort of father figure either way.

I’m not sure if he is the father or not. But I agree, that would be way too risky for both parents to be on an expedition of this risk magnitude

No, she was divorced from the father of her kids.

There would be an awful lot of jobs that went away or were dramatically different if people adhered to this concept. Tons of sports, military, law enforcement, etc
---

I'd think that the benefits package for these high risk professions (health and life insurance included) helps mitigate that risk. At least in terms of providing finances to the family in case of tragedy. Do mountaineers have similar benefit packages?

---

---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/