He's got a good shot I think.

After his last attempt he mentioned in an interview almost using a modified superman position that he got in the UCI regs... I wonder if he breaks that out :D

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Is he riding the Argon or Pinarello ?

Good question. Friday we'll know which bike is more aero I would guess, as he's not required to ride the Ineos kit.

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Dan has this. It'll be an interesting dry run for some of the things we might see before Ganna takes his shot.

He has also been riding a P5-6 in TTs lately, though I can't imagine he'd be on that for a track event. Their Argon setup and what he did with the Danes is as dialed as it gets. It will be interesting to see his choices.

He praises the team support and specifically Pinarello and Bioracer, so that must be what he is using... and he's probably sponsorship ($$$) obligated.

The Hour Record has definitely become its own thing. Amazing how well Bigham has done compared to his TT accomplishments. Science and determination...

You'd think Ganna could smoke the Hour with his talent and track experience. No interest though?
EDIT: Doh... he's definitely interested, but no firm date..

Sweet pain...

How can you watch live?

It's on the Ineos Youtube channel I believe

I could easily be wrong here but I would expect to see him in a custom Vorteq suit, shoe covers, etc., helmet will be the Kask, the Argon/Pinarello debate will be down to whatever he’s tested faster - unless he’s gotten a fully custom 3d printed cockpit, I would expect to see the Argon with Wattshop Axia kit. I’m not sure the wheels unless PCD or someone has made a special track disc set and Tire will probably be the Pista Speed unless Conti has a secret up their sleeve with some ProLTD stuff. For the Cog, Chainring and chain, I wonder if he will use the “New Motion Labs” or the GB smaller pitched gear?

I would be surprised if he using anything other than a fully custom/3D printed cockpit. If it's worth 2 watts that still huge to someone who "only needs 7-10watts".

I really love this attempt. Dan's an amazing cyclist, but a full step below world tour level. It's purely his technical knowledge that makes him competitive for this event. Similar to Graeme Obree.

https://tri-today.com/...s-world-hour-record/

I cant wait to see this and calculate what is going on. Dan has been very kind and open about things in the past so I'm curious what details he does or does not share under the Ineos umbrella. This is never a sure fire thing, but I feel really good about his chances.

No so. Yes, what Dan is attempting is amazing, and all the best to him, but Obree was a creative, imaginative, out-of-the-box thinker, which has been replaced by Uber expensive bicycles and clothing - all due to the UCI. I need a bumper sticker that reads "Absolutely define a bicycle, but don't tell me how to sit on it"!

Dan operates within the UCI regulations offered to him and has turned everything upside down with what he brings to the table. He completely changed track cycling. Graeme was amazing and so is Dan. End of story.

Read somewhere (rumour) that he is waiting for some of those silly UCI rules to be modified next year that will allow a guy his size (he is about 6'4") to dial in a more aerodynamic position without too uncomfortable angles. I think he can go 57.5 kph.

I'd say they're both creative out-of-the-box thinkers, Bigham is just more constrained by UCI rules. Even without UCI rules, the tech of today is not really something where you can weld together your own frame and be anywhere near the top. Even if we toss out all the rules and go full-fairing recumbent, the ability to mold a large fiberglass fairing like that goes well beyond the ability of a custom frame-builder.

Supposedly he is still going for it this year, but my understanding is that they have already tested a new position that take advantage of the new rules for next year. Given that, I would wait unless you want data and experience from a previous ride.

This is why I said he'll be on a Pinarello with a Bioracer suit. "And having access to all of the team’s partners has been massive for me. The amount of support that Pinarello have put into this project by bringing a new, incredibly high-level bike to the table in such a short space of time is pretty astronomical. We’ve done a huge amount of skin suit testing with Bioracer over the past six months too." https://www.velonews.com/...mpt-uci-hour-record/

I get that the UCI can't "math" to save their lives templating bikes (heard from those on the forums that have to), but the true solution would be a ratio and not "buckets" based on height. The new "buckets" of height ranges is better, but not best.

You still wind up with the person at one end of the bucket having an advantage over the person on the other end of it.

I personally think the rationale behind the rules is not very scientific. Of course I am going to play this card, but triathletes are allowed to choose whatever position they want, yet you don't see anyone sitting on the top tube, on 88 degree seat posts or with very eccentric and unstable bike positions. Seems like the opposite to me. To the best of my limited knowledge, I don't think triathletes crash more often than cyclists in TT events and they don't use UCI legal positions. On the other hand, for many of us, and aero and UCI legal position can even compromise sighting not to mention that feels weird and uncomfortable. Same goes for equipment (although these rules annoy me less), many of the fastest bike splits at triathlon races are done on frames that actually resemble a traditional bicycle (e.g. Giant Trinity, Canyon Speedmax, Cervelo P5)

Maybe one day UCI will hire someone with a bit of common sense and just ditch all these silly rules.

Link yet? I looked at Ineos page on youtube and didnt see it yet. Checked UCI page also.

Many of the crashing things could be because from the limited tri bike legs that I know they are as boring as the TT's in the US stage racing scene. Mostly out and back with little else to do other than to be aero and push the pedals. As soon as a technical section comes into play I'd say the average triathlete is approximately 10 times more likely to crash, thus trigger the modern stereotype. Also as triathletes have to complete the 3rd leg after the bike, I've never seen a triathlete go as deep on the bike at UCI pursuits, hour records or TT's. Maybe the shorter, more intense effort leads UCI athletes to make more mistakes.

With that said though, you can look at nearly every modern UCI aero positioning rule and not only call their bluff on the safety aspect but also trace it back to an innovation in the sport they they didn't like. Think the funny bikes, Obree, superman, praying mantis, puppy paws, etc. I agree getting rid of most of those ideas to maintain the historical ideologies of the sport (double triangle frames, etc.) could really be interesting but I don't expect it any time soon.

It probably won’t start until the day of the event, which is Friday?

Not sure how I thought it was today, thanks. I had a brain fart.

Haha, no problem.

You had me checking the date on my watch too. Although I did then wonder if you had knowledge of a "pre" show or something that I hadn't noticed.

Based on that statement, I'm curious what Pinarello will be delivering. I rode on a Bolide track bike for about a year and it was a beautiful machine. It seems as though they have something new up their sleaves.

https://www.princetoncarbon.com/product/track-special/

I’ll send you a text later with some other stuff

If it had been done by French or French speaking Belgian or French-Swiss 30+ years ago in the way Brits like Obree, Boardman, and the recently departed Mike Burrows etc. pushed new things, it would have been celebrated by UCI, not banned.

Oh these fashion conspiracy theories about the old man UCI against the brave.

I want to do road racing and TT racing on bicycles which can be used on public streets and not fully faired recumbent bikes or on bikes only of use on smart trainers. The UCI rules about bicycle design and equipment are not that bad. These rules are not perfect, some are questionable, they are often not enforced in practice but in the end they prevented many crazy stuff.

The current UCI ruling had its origin when these crazy bikes and positions you mentioned came up. Here too, I don‘t want to be forced to use the superman or tuck position to be competitive.

At the moment the head down position is again such a crazy thing (once more promoted from a brave?) the current rules can‘t prevent (the brave tester of the UK long time tried to prevent it by a rule but failed somehow).

I'll risk it and say Tom Simpson (Euro/Britain) died doping and has a statue on a famous mountain climb with cyclists leaving tokens and momentos on their way up. Pantani is different, but of a similar dead doper culture icon view.

An American tears it up doping and comes clean before dying of dope or drugs and is.........well, we know how that turned out.

Imagine if Europe started an American football team that somehow was allowed entry to the NFL, then won the Superbowl. There'd be a lot of unhappy folks that the outsiders to your country/continent's "sport" are taking over.

Bike racing in general, specifically road, still has a very obvious Euro bias.

I will say this: maybe aside some from journalists and some of the French, Europeans largely didn't give a shit. We knew our riders were doing the same shit. Lance's attitude rubbed many the wrong way, but the public here was used to our stars having doping issues. I'm not saying it was condoned, but it was normalized in the culture to some extent because there have been issues here as long as people have ridden bikes.

I got the sense that America at large just didn't have the same kind of history in this sport. One of their own golden boys lied right to their faces and that was what angered everyone it seemed. Lance's admission came as a surprise to exactly no one here. I think it caught much of the American public who were in the mania of everything off guard.

You are right though. Cycling has a huge continental European bias and a large portion of the rules that flow down through to other places and disciplines come from the road scene there. The UCI has stifled so much innovation and Obree certainly seemed overly targeted.

Back on topic. What distance do we think Dan goes tomorrow? Has anyone bothered to check atmospheric data for the past few days and what we are expecting?

Low pressure early Fri, but rising through the day. https://www.wunderground.com/forecast/ch/grenchen Does he have a set schedule?

Yes, that's what his IG says
https://www.instagram.com/p/ChKt8XosthG/

1430 CEST, is what, now? 8:30 EDT?

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
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Can't they game the hvac a little to lower the pressure indoors? I thought someone that knows a lot more about that stuff than I do (which is nothing) mentioned that once.

Someone also mentioned folks getting on track and riding really fast for a few minutes before the attempt to get air swirling a touch inside to give a one lap bonus effect on the start?

That would be interesting. Are you allowed to bring in your on equipment to modify conditions in such a way? Beyond what the facilities already are doing to climate condition said facilities.

Regarding riders on track to create air movement, does anyone have any data suggesting this effect?

Big fans and open doors can be used to get air circulating in a beneficial direction. And of course they can increase temperature.

Don't think lower pressure is possible. A mere 0.1 psi differential across a 80x40" door would produce 320 lbs of force.

No data to back it up, but one of the thins Ashton Lambie was looking at for his sub-4 IP attempt was the possibility of having a second rider start opposite from him like an actual pursuit. Evidently the circulation of air in the track is non-zero. They also discussed why a smaller building was better (less volume, tighter walls, more swirling of air) and the possibility of having a big group or motorpacers on track immediately before the attempt.

Build a velodrome inside a large pharma facility. The hvac systems for classified areas are outrageously strong and the air turnovers per minute and pressure differences phenomenal sometimes. I jest.

Haha. I have seen ripped off wall panels with errors in tuning in the control system sometimes on startups for new buildings.

Is it allowed. Aside from however the facility already operates would one be able to legally bring in their own equipment to alter conditions?

I wonder this also. It's to me akin to Ganna's team using the stack-a-rack with bikes on the top of the follow vehicle to influence the TT.

Oh yeah. Pharmaceutical and biomedical as well as some aerospace facilities and optics facilities for defense are next level. You could certainly tune the conditions for a fast bike track there. We need black bike projects. I digress.

Victor Campanaerts is optimistic that Dan is taking this down and was very complimentary to him. Its nice to see competitors cheering each other on.

Not just big fans ... big ASS fans!!!

The ones in my gym look like upside-down helicopters stuck to the ceiling



https://bigassfans.com/powerfoil-x4/

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

No kidding. My height puts me on the edge of the buckets. I get an extra 3cm if you measure my height when I get out of bed and I tend to compress into the shorter category by the end of the day. Just make the reach adjustment proportional to height.

It would be hella easy to set up a jig as well. Roll onto jig, set bottom bracket inline with a marker as the datum, slider on the front for the aerobars, slider on the seat for the nose fore/aft, or just marking lines on the back plate of the jig at heights consistent with bars/seat. Instead of grading the measurement markers in cm's, set them in minimum-allowable-height-of-rider. Done just as quickly as the current jig.

I talked to the official at elite track nationals in TTown. They weren’t sure what they were going to do with the jig with the minor rule adjustments but they already have $6k into this UCI jig so they aren’t keen on another investment.

No data on the screen, no countdown clock

As someone posted in the comments "They could just put a GIF of him doing one lap over & over again"

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Relevant XKCD as always. https://xkcd.com/37/

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See your bike fit. https://bikefitr.appspot.com/

How did Ineos of all teams screw this broadcast up?

Incredible, what a waste of time

You mean the team that let Geraint Thomas do his TDF TT with his warm-up vest on?

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Ughhhhh, this stream is worthless other than to watch the chat for folks manually keeping time themselves at home!

I feel like Ineos closed the velodrome and is giving us this pathetic stream in the attempt to keep some of their secret sauce to themselves. Dan's CdA for this ride is supposedly .150

Disappointing, however knowledgeable Tipper is: we need at least a simple clock, distance completed, average speed and a ticker with time deficit to Campanaerts each lap.
Ineos is not delivering this live broadcast. They have just allowed Bigham to use their channel.

I just heard that and was mind blown.

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He's been at .16 for awhile. It looks like an updated Bolide track bike and a new front end for him. Plus the new suit and various appointments in the drive train. Still, unbelievable to not only get there, but be able to hold that in practice while delivering power.

I just noticed Victor Campanaerts was posting rooting him on.

Mission achieved 55.548km

How accurate of a CRR we have for that though?

That makes a huge difference if you over-state a high CRR if the wood track and track tires are some un-Godly low CRR.

He CAN ride 55!!!

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Who knows. The information we were given was from his coach and inner circle though. He's shown before he is close to that. I would think he knows exactly what is going on with everything relevant in his system.

And I suspect he has confirmed the number in the wind tunnel that doesn't care about CRR

Probably 10 times over.

Dan has achieved full aero-superiority in this arms race.

Record achieved off an estimated average power of 350watts was it? Absolutely brilliant.

Just shows the balance between power and aero is the most critical element in a TT.

I am convinced.

I told the wife I need that $5000 bar and $10000 wheels to go 10 seconds faster in my weekly TT.

But I go shot down by a hypersonic anti ballistic interceptor, never seen in this arms race.

It's insane. 350watts for an hour is achievable by a fair number of people on here. Contrast that to the estimates for Eddy Merckx at >450watts, probably only achievable by a few people in history.

Can't wait to see what Ganna will do on 480-500 W in that position on world class equipment.

I believe it.

It almost surely wont be Ganna, but 60k is looking more possible than ever. CdA's down below 0.15 and guys pushing 400w at altitude seems pretty likely in the next 10 years.

They were saying that when Indurain made his attempt, or an attempt, he was pushing 500watts.

I doubt Eddy or even Indurain averaged >450W on the track. The G forces and variable resistance take a toll. I've been told ~10% power drop is typical vs a TT. Ganna should get the record though, absolutely.

What Dan has done has done is super impressive! I mean... the guy makes his living as a aero expert and consultant. Riding and racing bikes is a hobby. I think we can all agree that he is far from World Tour level even in TTs. What he has basically done is taken a "mediocre" cyclist (himself) and set a World Record. And... it was at low altitude, and not close! Hell, he smashed Wiggins' record by over 1km, and Wiggins was a top WT pro TTer and track racer! ... who had the absolute best minds and high tech equipment helping him.

This is the most awesome thing he could put on his resume...

Indurain and Rominger both did 500 watt rides for the hour I believe. There is some pretty good indications of Ganna's hour power while in aero. I'd expect he might be in the 460 - 480 watt range. I can't see him being close to Dan's level of aero though. Still he'll have enough watts and aero to put this pretty far out there.

Where are you seeing those estimates? He went further than expected and I believe was targeting 360 watts.

Things that are going to sell out everywhere ^^^

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I find it really hard to believe he actually used GP5000 TT tires. That makes no sense at all... https://www.bikeradar.com/...ur-record-pinarello/

That was striking to me as well. I'd love to know the specifics of that actual tyre they used and the rational behind it. It seems impossible. Surely it is some type of prototype and not the stand GP5000 TT.

Turns out he went 55.2 in June during training too.

I would guess these are publicity photos taken after a test session. The actual tires are likely designed to last 60k and not much more. Unless they went the opposite direction and built a super hard compound rubber since there is so little grip required. He says "higher than you'd think" for pressure. Not unheard of for indoor track tires to push 200psi, but that was back in the day of high pressure everywhere.

Very weird. Conti has a long history of giving pros different tires than what they sell to the general public, so it wouldn't surprise me that the tires the pros are using in road races are quite fast. But this is a track hour record on a smooth track where high PSI should be another benefit. And the Conti clinchers max at 109 psi according to their spec. Smaller tires are better for aero, and these are 25mm. Plus, it's strange that Princeton would make fancy track discs that are clincher specific.

Maybe the aero of the clincher/wheel mounting interface with that disc wheel and that tire at that pressure provides a better presentation to the wind? Eliminates variability of a glue job for CRR and aero.

Spitballing.

He's definitely punching above his racing category, but I disagree with your characterization. Bigham has raced professionally at the UCI Continental level, and has a multi-year history of being competitive against WorldTour guys in ITTs at National and World champ events.

I don’t think it’s standard. The use of gp5000 thing has been an ongoing source of public ribbing on social media since the sub 7/8 record when the same tyres were used and it’s obvious now they are prototypes of some description. How good, who knows.

Any evidence that they are prototypes?

Even then... I don't understand using them on the track for this sort of effort. Maybe they are good in aero; at least the flow direction is well known and turbulence nil. But it seems like a small high-pressure tire would be more optimal.

No direct evidence but observational evidence based on what we know from current data. In the past I've seen Continental mark the tyres to indicate prototypes.

Dan mentioned surprising pressures for the ride, but left it at that. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I should have said "top" WorldTour, or something to that effect. He's only raced Worlds ITT once (last year) and was 16th. He was 2nd at nationals this year and last year.

Any reason for the massive drop basebar? Not like he is using it in a TT. If there is a minimum bar width, you'd present a lower frontal area is it was straight.

Rominger did 413 watts. Indurain was 500.

https://www.53x12.com/rominger-s-hour

Thank you. My forgetter is stronger that my rememberer at this point. 1 for 2.

Whoever it was commentating on YouTube talked about it constantly.

His coach. I thought he suggested 360W and that Dan said he was going faster than plan.

The Conti prototype tyres that I have seen have a numerical code on a white label like this. Possible the overall CRR/CdA package with the Continental GP5000 TT was the best option especially when tied to the prototype frame & wheels. Or it was a sponsor requirement and he had enough spare power to allow for it. For SUB7 Cadex allowed us to exceed the recommended maximum pressure for the wheels, I expect he ran his tyres way past the suggested safe maximum.

Guesstimated, not measured values. And lots of EPO back then...

My guess is it would be the optimal position and ability for him to get a massive 64x14 gear from a standing start away and up to speed before transitioning to aero. Time gains there would offset any minor aero penalties for the base bar.

For a number of reasons of I've gone full deep-dive into this record attempt the last ten days. This was actually one of the most interesting aspects to me as I've won (juniors, and now masters) US National Championships with what I would consider very experimental, and with hindsight probably fairly dangerous set-ups. (Think suicide bars, on the road, on fixed gear, with just a single front brake!)

In one of the youtube videos I watched, Bigham said that he's experimented with no base bar at all because (and I'm paraphrasing) it would "make sense to be faster" but it turns out they've tested, and tested again, that the "wave" the basebars create for the legs actually makes for a lower CDA. That explained why the WattShop basebars on stock bars look a bit thicker than some others, and makes me think they (Bigham, INEOS, & the 3D printer) looked at this extensively when shaping these bars for this attempt. Probably any shape he can manage to start on, that also lowers his CDA at ~56 kh is what they had in mind. It looks like the newer INEOS road TT bars are doing this too as they have an odd shape that doesn't appear to be overly bio-mechanical nor minimal frontal area.

Aren’t all hour record power values guesstimated? Rominger and Ferrari had SRMs, so they probably measured...

And yeah the power is a lot lower than it was 25 years ago.

There are no guestimates now really. There is enough transfer of knowledge to know almost exactly what is going on from multiple sources.

The orange juice was flowing from Spain and they pretty much knew exactly how that helped too. Science and math could work out the details then and now just much more easily these days. Tech now makes it all more convenient though and we are far more capable of knowledge being shared and in turn further refined.

Some more info -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJUDSy3DDI

Looking at that shape, I could see it helping shape the air around his legs by creating a vortex. For us normal people, frontal area makes a big difference, for the best of the best, it's a lot more subtle and the movement of the air itself matters.

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That's very interesting! I'm surprised but probably shouldn't be; because airflow is very controlled on the track vs outdoor TTs, subtle things like this can have a greater impact.

Drifting OT a bit, but looking at the new Specialized TT helmet I'm guessing they found that the side "wings" are doing something to help flow attachment over the shoulders. There may be more aero advancement still possible around things like this...

In the GCN YouTube video they reference the very low Q factor on Bigham's bike. Obree's knees were so close together (very narrow BB) that he had to eliminate the top tube on the frame, and mount the chain stays high up on the seat tube to give clearance for the cranks.

Helmets are a whole other thing, but I recall Bigham also mentioned something regarding integration that was almost as surprising as the basebar being more aero than nothing at all. He said he's finding helmets are very "kit specific" for him, again something that mostly applies to the very controlled environment of an indoor velodrome. That shocked me though, as we know aero helmets are quite rider-specific for obvious reasons, but the skinsuit he's wearing? He was saying that depending on how a given kit fits with a certain material, and how much the helmet pushes airflow in that direction, he has to re-test his bin of fast helmets when he gets a newer, and presumably faster kit. I recall him saying the data can vary "a lot", which at this level maybe means a couple a watts!

I went to Manchester Track World Champs one year and roomed with Dean Phillips (3k Masters World Record holder) who has been extensively testing himself since 2003, back then I think he said with a PowerTap. From asking him endless questions, the main thing I gathered from him was that passing the "looks aero" test is just baseline, but from there you just have to test everything and in those details there can be surprising findings. So much of the outcome of those tests can be counter intuitive, but when applied almost always convey in results and faster times.

As I recall they said his bike was 130-something mm, which isn't all that narrow (my TT bike is in that range), but road norm is ~150. Narrow Q has been known to usually improve CdA since at least Obree's time. Lance experimented with it but didn't like it. The cheap way to achieve this is with old Dura Ace square taper cranks.

Narrow feels better to me, but there are practical limits. On my current frame I needed to go from a 103 to 107mm so the crank arms wouldn't hit the frame. Chainstay clearance with your feet can be another limiter if you pedal heels-in at all.

This makes sense, esp if you look at some of the emerging designs for TT/track bikes and how they position the forks and stays.

Regarding the basebar, does Ribble or whoever have a patent on that aero road drop bar with the intentional aero bulges in the middle of it? They claimed that was faster or something. Is that appearing on their bike's base bar for TT bikes?

It's funny because when I was a kid we were taught 'knees to the stem' type pedaling, and to this day my knees track up and over the top tube. It pains me to see Lionel's pedaling style with his knees sticking out like he's doing yoga.

Ha! Exactly the same. It's almost sensory feedback at this point after almost two decades.

Which is annoying with a bento box on my Felt, as my right knee grazes the "lid" of the box so I have to continually retape it every couple of weeks to push it in a few mms so it's not catching on my knee and lifting open.

...but don't forget, we were on bikes with a narrow TA/Stronglight/Campagnolo crankset, and 120mm rear dropout spacing.

This has been well known within the British time trial scene for some time. The skinsuit is the most major innovation in my view over the last 10 years and I’ve changed my suits major pattern three times in the last 6 years and each one of these resulted in a helmet change. The issue though is determining which piece of equipment or position you change first to then influence the others. I generally go position first, then suit, then helmet but that may not always be right.