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Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture
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Oh noooooo!!
https://www.tri247.com/...s-barclay-hip-injury

She was destined to have such a great (at least I think so). This sucks and yes sport can be really really tough. I hope she recovers quickly and comes back stronger than ever!!

Damn…….:(((((((((((

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely sucks.

She'll be back for the 2nd half of the season

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching


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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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TizzleDK wrote:
Oh noooooo!!
https://www.tri247.com/...s-barclay-hip-injury

She was destined to have such a great (at least I think so). This sucks and yes sport can be really really tough. I hope she recovers quickly and comes back stronger than ever!!

Damn…….:(((((((((((
Bummer for her. Some discussion on this thread: Lucy isn't showing up on start lists and is pretty quiet on SM Opens up St George where she was set to dominate.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
TizzleDK wrote:
Oh noooooo!!
https://www.tri247.com/...s-barclay-hip-injury

She was destined to have such a great (at least I think so). This sucks and yes sport can be really really tough. I hope she recovers quickly and comes back stronger than ever!!

Damn…….:(((((((((((
Bummer for her. Some discussion on this thread: Lucy isn't showing up on start lists and is pretty quiet on SM Opens up St George where she was set to dominate.

Bummer indeed, for her and the fans. She is box office. I hope she gets back soon.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Theses been something wrong with her for a while now if you follow her socials.

And even someone on here said she hasn’t been entering races or on entry lists for a long time.

I suspect this is from a while ago and she almost already better.

Still won’t race st george but the time line doesn’t match up right.

Still totally suck for her and her team.

Lucky she is young

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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PJC wrote:
And even someone on here said she hasn’t been entering races or on entry lists for a long time.

I suspect this is from a while ago and she almost already better.
Still won’t race st george but the time line doesn’t match up right.
If she can recover quickly, she can switch her focus to Sub8 (early June) against Nicola Spirig.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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She says she's out of sub 8-- says it 'out of the question'
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Very unfortunate, for sure. I've known several athletes with hip stress fractures (sf's) and i've had 3 foot sf's. It is challenging to stay off of it but there are actually lots of exercises that can be done safely to preserve fitness/strength early on and more after a few weeks. She needs to talk to her docs about choices of exercises-and preferably a sports doc who knows who she is and what level.

One of my friends was doing very aggressive water running after the first 2 weeks-and continued it for a month after. Didn't lose any fitness really at all. If I remember, he had a PR at his event a few months later. He also did swimming with a PB that started a week or two after his diagnosis. He made sure there was absolutely no kick motion as that can delay healing.

Another thing that is hard for most of us is weight gain when you take out the big number of exercise calories that you lose and the adjustment that must be made...

One thing she definitely doesn't quite understand is that is simply an 'overuse' injury. Mental stressors do NOT affect the bone. That aspect can affect a lot of things, but it will clearly not cause a stress fracture.

She should be back to training at ~6-8 weeks and if done right, without too much loss of fitness. It may take another 6-8 weeks of graduated training to get back to her prior fitness level.

I wish her the very best.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [MadTownTRI] [ In reply to ]
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MadTownTRI wrote:
She says she's out of sub 8-- says it 'out of the question'
Will Nicola Spririg still do it then? Who else (ie a replacement)?
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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ugh, I'm always sorry to hear when people get fractures :-(

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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dtoce wrote:

Another thing that is hard for most of us is weight gain when you take out the big number of exercise calories that you lose and the adjustment that must be made...

I don't know if it's the case for Lucy but often times RED-S and low body fat contribute to the cause of SFX, especially in women, so gaining weight during recovery can be a good thing sometimes.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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April fools joke???
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [TakeYourTime] [ In reply to ]
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Nope, it was released on March the 31st.

Bummer.

As a side note: would expecting LCB to have said something earlier, rather than going quiet for no apparent reason, have been too much? It's almost like she's only going to post positive material. Even an injury is about "the road to recovery" for her - not about everything else associated with an injury that is, you know, bad. It's a very very polished way to run a vlog. It's obviously Lucy's right to run the vlog the way she sees fit. (No pun intended).
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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kajet wrote:
As a side note: would expecting LCB to have said something earlier, rather than going quiet for no apparent reason, have been too much? It's almost like she's only going to post positive material. Even an injury is about "the road to recovery" for her - not about everything else associated with an injury that is, you know, bad. It's a very very polished way to run a vlog. It's obviously Lucy's right to run the vlog the way she sees fit. (No pun intended).

Stress fracture only came up very recently. Reece had a heart scare earlier in the year which was the real reason for going so quiet. Stress of that probably didn't help Lucy's hip
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Polo_1272] [ In reply to ]
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Reece did not look good in that vlog, looked skinny and ill in the short footage of him training.

Is the heart issue confirmed? If so I would imagine they kept quiet not just for the medical reasons, but also because it is guaranteed to lead to conversation over vaccines etc and that is dodgy ground for everyone, especially professional athletes who make their money from sport and sponsors.

Edit. It did seem at first that she was suggesting mental stress contributed, but then she did add that she might have suffered some trauma in training.
Last edited by: ianmo80: Apr 1, 22 0:49
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ianmo80] [ In reply to ]
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ianmo80 wrote:
Is the heart issue confirmed?.


Yes, Reece put up a post on his insta yesterday. He says things are better and he has returned to training. He mentions being investigated for 'AF' and 'HCM' in the comments, I'm sure that will mean something to those more knowledgeable!

edit: My first thought on hearing the news was how the diet chnages they made last hear could have affected such a hip issue. I never watched that particular video so don't know what they ended up changing, and I'll guess we'll never know for sure, but thought the timing of such an injury was interesting
Last edited by: Polo_1272: Apr 1, 22 3:01
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Polo_1272] [ In reply to ]
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Polo_1272 wrote:
Stress fracture only came up very recently. Reece had a heart scare earlier in the year which was the real reason for going so quiet. Stress of that probably didn't help Lucy's hip


Oh, I had no idea. That sucks. Neither of them deserves this...

I've been following Richard Murray's and TO's "heart scares". They took it like true champs but of course couldn't conceal their anxiety if they tried. Hopefully there's a straight road in front of the Charles-Barkley duo. No criticism from me whatsoever on going silent.
Last edited by: kajet: Apr 1, 22 3:00
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Polo_1272] [ In reply to ]
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Polo_1272 wrote:
ianmo80 wrote:
Is the heart issue confirmed?.


Yes, Reece put up a post on his insta yesterday. He says things are better and he has returned to training. He mentions being investigated for 'AF' and 'HCM' in the comments

AF=Atrial Fibrillation

HCM=Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Polo_1272] [ In reply to ]
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Polo_1272 wrote:
kajet wrote:
As a side note: would expecting LCB to have said something earlier, rather than going quiet for no apparent reason, have been too much? It's almost like she's only going to post positive material. Even an injury is about "the road to recovery" for her - not about everything else associated with an injury that is, you know, bad. It's a very very polished way to run a vlog. It's obviously Lucy's right to run the vlog the way she sees fit. (No pun intended).


Stress fracture only came up very recently. Reece had a heart scare earlier in the year which was the real reason for going so quiet. Stress of that probably didn't help Lucy's hip

just watched the video - she seems pretty broken up about it. really sucks for both of them, for sure.

2022 - an already stranger year - gets stranger again. lucy's not just fast but plays such an important role in driving race dynamics. her absence changes the race dynamics massively.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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dtoce wrote:
One thing she definitely doesn't quite understand is that is simply an 'overuse' injury. Mental stressors do NOT affect the bone. That aspect can affect a lot of things, but it will clearly not cause a stress fracture.

ArmchairMD diagnosis aside...

Mental stress won't break a bone, but mental stress leading to careless workouts/form can contribute.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
dtoce wrote:

One thing she definitely doesn't quite understand is that is simply an 'overuse' injury. Mental stressors do NOT affect the bone. That aspect can affect a lot of things, but it will clearly not cause a stress fracture.


ArmchairMD diagnosis aside...

Mental stress won't break a bone, but mental stress leading to careless workouts/form can contribute.

I would guess that 'careless workouts' could lead to this, but it doesn't seem likely that her bio-mechanics suddenly deteriorated. Much more commonly, lots and lots of workouts lead to sf's (and bad luck).......and occur more frequently with certain additional risk factors.

*Established risk factors for Stress Fractures
Prior stress fracture
Poor bone health (osteopenia and osteoporosis)
Substantial increase in intensity or volume of activity (eg, military boot camp)
Decreased physical fitness (poor muscle strength or endurance)
Dietary disorders (eg, insufficient calcium intake, vitamin D deficiency, eating disorders)
Family history of osteopenia or osteoporosis
Poor running biomechanics
Female gender
Menstrual irregularity in females
Low body mass index
Prolonged glucocorticoid use
Older age

Factors of uncertain risk
Shoe type; Worn-out shoes
Running surface
Foot anatomy (eg, extreme high arch)
Muscle inflexibility

The combination of low energy availability (with or without an eating disorder), menstrual irregularity, and low bone mineral density comprises the "female athlete triad" and places a woman at greatly increased risk of stress fractures. Even women without the entire syndrome but with an elevated female athlete triad cumulative risk score demonstrate an increased risk for developing bone stress injuries.

I do not know her at all and do not know what other things are going on. I don't read their instagram and don't follow pro athletes on social media. It is good that her bone mass is normal. It is bad that she now is at risk for future sf's.


I'll go back to my (arm)chair and get some popcorn for the next round-
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
2022 - an already stranger year - gets stranger again. lucy's not just fast but plays such an important role in driving race dynamics. her absence changes the race dynamics massively.
Weird. If Charles is not out in front, who of the likely top ten will be leading before the long climb to Veyo in May (or to Hawi in October)? Ryf?
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ianmo80] [ In reply to ]
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ianmo80 wrote:
Reece did not look good in that vlog, looked skinny and ill in the short footage of him training.

Is the heart issue confirmed? If so I would imagine they kept quiet not just for the medical reasons, but also because it is guaranteed to lead to conversation over vaccines etc and that is dodgy ground for everyone, especially professional athletes who make their money from sport and sponsors.

Edit. It did seem at first that she was suggesting mental stress contributed, but then she did add that she might have suffered some trauma in training.

What is the controversy over vaccines? I haven’t watched the video yet, are they not vaccinated/suggesting the vaccine may have contributed to the issue?
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [cherry_bomb] [ In reply to ]
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cherry_bomb wrote:
ianmo80 wrote:
Reece . . . Is the heart issue confirmed? If so I would imagine they kept quiet not just for the medical reasons, but also because it is guaranteed to lead to conversation over vaccines etc and that is dodgy ground for everyone, especially professional athletes who make their money from sport and sponsors.


What is the controversy over vaccines? I haven’t watched the video yet, are they not vaccinated/suggesting the vaccine may have contributed to the issue?
No there was no mention of vaccination. I can only think Ian is vaguely pulling the reported (and rare) COVID vaccine side effects involving the heart into this space.
https://www.health.gov.au/...id-19-vaccines_1.pdf
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Like I said; in my opinion the two current reasons they wouldn’t talk about heart issues are because of the usual medical reasons but also because every heart case now in sport draws conversations on vaccine side effects.

No conspiracies, just some speculation why he’d keep it quiet based on why I would.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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Brandes wrote:
Absolutely sucks.

She'll be back for the 2nd half of the season

A hip fracture is no joke no matter how small. I would be surprised if she is back this season at all.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Atrial Fibrillation Is what eliminated Richard Murray from Tokyo. Less than a year after his diagnosis he’s good to go, and back racing. Hopefully Reece’s will be treatable as well.

Never heard of the other thing.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ianmo80] [ In reply to ]
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ianmo80 wrote:
Like I said; in my opinion the two current reasons they wouldn’t talk about heart issues are because of the usual medical reasons but also because every heart case now in sport draws conversations on vaccine side effects.

No conspiracies, just some speculation why he’d keep it quiet based on why I would.

I don't consume much "news". So take this with a grain of salt.
I assumed he thought they got covid, and his (Reece's) Heart stuff was a form of long covid. Which is significantly more likely than Heart issues from Vaccines.

Whatever it is, I hope they both recover quickly and are able to be themselves again.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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Totally agree. We will see how she recovers!

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching


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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [oprfcc] [ In reply to ]
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oprfcc wrote:
ianmo80 wrote:
Like I said; in my opinion the two current reasons they wouldn’t talk about heart issues are because of the usual medical reasons but also because every heart case now in sport draws conversations on vaccine side effects.

No conspiracies, just some speculation why he’d keep it quiet based on why I would.

I don't consume much "news". So take this with a grain of salt.
I assumed he thought they got covid, and his (Reece's) Heart stuff was a form of long covid. Which is significantly more likely than Heart issues from Vaccines.

Whatever it is, I hope they both recover quickly and are able to be themselves again.

Makes much more sense than a reaction to the vaccine. It's actually plausible.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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I thought the same thing. I wonder if her diet played a part? I don't think she eats dairy which is a pretty big source of calcium. For women this can be a big deal in terms of osteoporosis.

In addition, I watched some of her videos and thought she was really under fueling on the bike. They were eating tiny homeade energy bites. It's not like a pizza needs to be consumed, but it just seemed like they were picking at food rather than enjoying it in her video of what they eat in a day. Not trying to be critical, just an observation.

Maybe she was getting enough calories, but not all calories are created equal. Hard to say if she was getting the right balance of macros for the training load and recovery. A lot of factors could come into play. Hopefully she heals quick and they figure out how to remedy this issue going forward. Definitely don't want any future stress fractures.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Vegan Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Vegan Tri wrote:
I thought the same thing. I wonder if her diet played a part? I don't think she eats dairy which is a pretty big source of calcium. For women this can be a big deal in terms of osteoporosis.

In addition, I watched some of her videos and thought she was really under fueling on the bike. They were eating tiny homeade energy bites. It's not like a pizza needs to be consumed, but it just seemed like they were picking at food rather than enjoying it in her video of what they eat in a day. Not trying to be critical, just an observation.

Maybe she was getting enough calories, but not all calories are created equal. Hard to say if she was getting the right balance of macros for the training load and recovery. A lot of factors could come into play. Hopefully she heals quick and they figure out how to remedy this issue going forward. Definitely don't want any future stress fractures.

i have a feeling it is this too. she did some gut test, then soon after removed dairy from her diet and she did enjoy pizza before... dont remember what other things she probably removed, but likely made it harder for her to find enough nutrition

http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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You would think annual blood work would yield results of calcium levels. I keep a close eye on all my vitals every year. With athletes walking around with glucometers on their arms and lactate threshold meters hanging from their ear lobes, would this really go undetected?
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Vegan Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Vegan Tri wrote:
You would think annual blood work would yield results of calcium levels. I keep a close eye on all my vitals every year. With athletes walking around with glucometers on their arms and lactate threshold meters hanging from their ear lobes, would this really go undetected?

what fad item they sell to the rich AG people is only seen on their social-media gram do we know they use it to the full extent - or did they forget what previous tool they were using for monitoring this stuff because they are over focused on some new fad?

http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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It says in the video her bone density is good, so it seems osteoporosis is not a factor.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ianmo80] [ In reply to ]
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ianmo80 wrote:
It says in the video her bone density is good, so it seems osteoporosis is not a factor.

Overtraining
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Vegan Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Cardiac issues from covid>>>>>>vaccine.

I’ve seen both in those in their late teens to 20s.

Vaccine related resolved relatively quick (few weeks) and back to baseline activity. Medical workup, once resolved, are back to normal.

COVID related, some with on going/lingering symptoms. Most with inconclusive, unusual, etc. workup from cardiology. There are interesting papers on this, I’ll defer further to dtoce. One I was asked to review is a pro athlete (friend of a friend, so not an official visit).
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Vegan Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Vegan Tri wrote:
ianmo80 wrote:
It says in the video her bone density is good, so it seems osteoporosis is not a factor.


Overtraining
Does the 'bone density is ok' assessment mean that identified diet intolerances (and all the food groups therefore avoided) are unlikely to be a factor, then? I earnestly hope she recovers well from what seems a very serious boney injury (same hip as before?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4dX7zxYFqQ
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
Vegan Tri wrote:
ianmo80 wrote:
It says in the video her bone density is good, so it seems osteoporosis is not a factor.


Overtraining
Does the 'bone density is ok' assessment mean that identified diet intolerances (and all the food groups therefore avoided) are unlikely to be a factor, then? I earnestly hope she recovers well from what seems a very serious boney injury (same hip as before?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4dX7zxYFqQ

I have no idea, I was half watching the vlog and only remember snippets. Haven’t done any in depth follow up.

From memory she only mentioned recovery shouldn’t be a major issue because of the e bone density, nothing on causation.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
Vegan Tri wrote:
ianmo80 wrote:
It says in the video her bone density is good, so it seems osteoporosis is not a factor.


Overtraining
Does the 'bone density is ok' assessment mean that identified diet intolerances (and all the food groups therefore avoided) are unlikely to be a factor, then? I earnestly hope she recovers well from what seems a very serious boney injury (same hip as before?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4dX7zxYFqQ

I'd say bone density being okay doesn't mean nutrition imbalance would be written off as a contributor. Proper nutrition is still important.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Vegan Tri] [ In reply to ]
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I read in one article that she has an edema on the femoral head. That's the ball that goes into the hip socket that moves and torques all the time. That seems problematic for a fast recovery but best wishes to her. I assume she will come out of this with even better swim fitness.

On that note I wonder how much having the massive engine of a water based athlete transitioning to land factored in. Because of her engine she can sustain a pretty high pace on land (particularly running) all the time and here 5-7 short years on land with pro volumes may not be what here body has adapted to. It would be different if she grew up playing soccer or tennis and swimming but from what I know she was mainly a swimmer only and not really doing much in land sports. So all of this maybe new . Also note that she started doing a lot more shorter races (super league, ITU) requiring more intensity than her previous long course years. She has the engine to support it but maybe the wheels did not have enough time to adapt
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
Vegan Tri wrote:
I thought the same thing. I wonder if her diet played a part? I don't think she eats dairy which is a pretty big source of calcium. For women this can be a big deal in terms of osteoporosis.

In addition, I watched some of her videos and thought she was really under fueling on the bike. They were eating tiny homeade energy bites. It's not like a pizza needs to be consumed, but it just seemed like they were picking at food rather than enjoying it in her video of what they eat in a day. Not trying to be critical, just an observation.

Maybe she was getting enough calories, but not all calories are created equal. Hard to say if she was getting the right balance of macros for the training load and recovery. A lot of factors could come into play. Hopefully she heals quick and they figure out how to remedy this issue going forward. Definitely don't want any future stress fractures.

i have a feeling it is this too. she did some gut test, then soon after removed dairy from her diet and she did enjoy pizza before... dont remember what other things she probably removed, but likely made it harder for her to find enough nutrition

Jan also vegan also hip stress fracture.. Triathlon Tarren went vegan and his health fell apart, Joe Gambles also.. Seems a common thread of people drastically changing and restricting their diets and bad things happening. In b4 causation correlation blah blah..

"Non-meat eaters, especially vegans, had higher risks of either total or some site-specific fractures, particularly hip fractures."

https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/...6/s12916-020-01815-3
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Vegan Tri wrote:
I thought the same thing. I wonder if her diet played a part? I don't think she eats dairy which is a pretty big source of calcium. For women this can be a big deal in terms of osteoporosis.

In addition, I watched some of her videos and thought she was really under fueling on the bike. They were eating tiny homeade energy bites. It's not like a pizza needs to be consumed, but it just seemed like they were picking at food rather than enjoying it in her video of what they eat in a day. Not trying to be critical, just an observation.

Maybe she was getting enough calories, but not all calories are created equal. Hard to say if she was getting the right balance of macros for the training load and recovery. A lot of factors could come into play. Hopefully she heals quick and they figure out how to remedy this issue going forward. Definitely don't want any future stress fractures.

i have a feeling it is this too. she did some gut test, then soon after removed dairy from her diet and she did enjoy pizza before... dont remember what other things she probably removed, but likely made it harder for her to find enough nutrition

Jan also vegan also hip stress fracture.. Triathlon Tarren went vegan and his health fell apart, Joe Gambles also.. Seems a common thread of people drastically changing and restricting their diets and bad things happening. In b4 causation correlation blah blah..

"Non-meat eaters, especially vegans, had higher risks of either total or some site-specific fractures, particularly hip fractures."

https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/...6/s12916-020-01815-3

"Some" additional risk. I'd say no dairy is a bigger factor than no meat (as the study referenced).

I just noticed her crazy small portions and picking at her food rather than actual eating. Based on the increased intensity with Super League, ITU, and Sub 8, you have to fuel those efforts. There is no way around it and not doing so is the biggest risk factor of all imo.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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All injuries and recoveries are different, but I had hip stress fracture in late October. Just back to walking a few weeks ago. Running is definitely gonna be longer away and ramp up will have to be slow. If her injury is remotely like mine, her season is definitely shot.

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team blog: http://snappletriteam.com/?page_id=10
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [zdesmond] [ In reply to ]
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zdesmond wrote:
All injuries and recoveries are different, but I had hip stress fracture in late October. Just back to walking a few weeks ago. Running is definitely gonna be longer away and ramp up will have to be slow. If her injury is remotely like mine, her season is definitely shot.

Wow, where was your stress fracture? I have a 14mm in my sacrum preventing me from running atm. At 2 weeks I could walk and put my pants on with no pain (first 2 weeks sucked). Took it easy the first week but have been cycling and swimming mostly like usual. On week 5 now, hoping to start running again soon.

I thought at first hers was going to be the sacrum too as it seems common in triathlon. Hers seems smaller but in a worse location. Hopefully she can get connected with some more opinions and at least gets a gameplan. If she is feeling no pain I bet she is swimming soon. Curious if dr will think cycling is ok in that fracture location, but I bet she’s riding easy on the trainer soon too.

Category 2 Road Cyclist w/ Aspiring Tri Ambitions | | My Strava Profile | | '22 AZ 70.3 | | Based in Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [zdesmond] [ In reply to ]
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zdesmond wrote:
All injuries and recoveries are different, but I had hip stress fracture in late October. Just back to walking a few weeks ago. Running is definitely gonna be longer away and ramp up will have to be slow. If her injury is remotely like mine, her season is definitely shot.

Yeah... of all of the stress fractures you can get, I wouldn't have thought that the hip would be a great one
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [theyellowcarguy] [ In reply to ]
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Mine was in the femoral neck. I hobbled around for a couple weeks on it before getting to doc and receiving diagnosis. Happened in a race, but even with the hobbling around running would have been impossible on it. I could run on it now, but doc says that is misguided until I build my strength back up and then slow build up after that. Cause was ramping up miles too quickly in marathon training plan.

-----------------------------------
team website: http://snappletriteam.com/

team blog: http://snappletriteam.com/?page_id=10
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
Jan also vegan also hip stress fracture.. Triathlon Tarren went vegan and his health fell apart, Joe Gambles also.. Seems a common thread of people drastically changing and restricting their diets and bad things happening. In b4 causation correlation blah blah..

"Non-meat eaters, especially vegans, had higher risks of either total or some site-specific fractures, particularly hip fractures."

https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/...6/s12916-020-01815-3

You're looking for a strong trend where there is a weak one.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
[On 12 March said on other thread] She is at home training hard....No secrets or conspiracy theories to excite the social media masses
Didn't age well. If you establish a reputation for feeding the SM masses, and then starve them, do not be surprised if there are 'withdrawal symptoms'.
21 Jan: (her vid) Intending to do the volcano tri on Lanzarote at the end of Feb....
End Feb: on Lanzarote (17 Mar) start list.
31 Mar: Only decided the hip was a problem a week ago.
Why not race Volcano Tri? Why not race Lanza? If not a problem till (say) 20 March.
Fair to assume that this has been troubling since mid Feb (latest). Finally "reached out to Red Bull" etc in mid March.
Thought this latest video was high on supplements and low on diet limitations and intolerances stuff.
Hope, with all the help and advice she mends as well as can be expected and gets back to fitness prudently.
Glad husband has all clear (assumed).
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like training load, stress (Reese's heart condition), and calcium were things she attributed to the injury.

I nailed it with over use (training load) and elimination of dairy in the diet (calcium).
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Vegan Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Hi All, thanks for your interest and support with this injury.

I noticed my video has been shared on this thread and wanted to address some of the speculations.

1 - I am not a vegan.
2- I eat meat.
3 - I have been eating dairy products, especially in the “off-season” my favorite meal is, after all, pizza. I cut out dairy before races last season and found it beneficial with race day performance and recovery between races. I resumed dairy foods not long after I won the 70.3 world championships, and there was no need to limit my diet when I was popping champagne.
4 - I have checked my vitamin levels, and both my vitamin D and calcium levels are currently optimal. However, they were probably slightly lower earlier in the year when I was returning to training. This likely contributed to bone weakness and an increase in training volume.

Hopefully, that helps clarify some things.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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LCB

Many thanks for responding to the thread. Very cool of you to take time to come on and clarify a few things. I think we all wish you a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing you race again, hopefully later this year. I did find it interesting that you had a tibial stress fracture previously (as have I--of course, being an MD, I was able to order an MRI on myself and get a diagnosis quickly)

Super fortunate to have access to the Red Bull team... it sounds like they did a fine job jumping on testing and explaining things. How very fortunate! You've done pretty well with diet/supplements to be able to have solid bone density despite that lack of sunshine/vitamin D. For most athletes the increase in training volume (?and perhaps harder surface) is the biggest factor by far.

It seems like you have a very good understanding of how sf's occur. I thought the video you made was extremely good and will help others for sure. We should get Dan to link this in his 'Hot Forum Topics' regarding injury here on slowtwitch.


Would you comment on shoes? Do you rotate? How many miles before you change?
Also, do you have high arches?


Please ask your docs/team about water running. It's very sport specific and can really help maintain fitness. Hope you are back to training soon! The waiting is so very hard...

Dale
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Dale: I appreciate your comments.

Re shoes, I swapped to Asics metaspeed ~ May last year after some testing between all the “super” shoes.

I have “normal” arches, not excessively high and not flat.

I change shoes regularly, I don’t count miles, but I keep an eye on the wear to the bottom of the shoes. I tend not to run in carbon shoes much over winter, where most of my running is on trail/grass. This could have also been a contributing factor, as when I started training in Lanzarote, it was increased use of carbon shoes on hard surfaces.
Last edited by: Lucy Charles: Apr 8, 22 9:42
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Wishing you the best with a speedy recovery. I think we all understand how disappointing and frustrating an injury can be but even more so for professional athletes.

As well, thank you for being very transparent with everything as I think it helps us understand what happened and may help others in similar circumstances or avoid injury altogether.

How long did you eliminate dairy during the season (days, weeks, months?) Could that period have coincided with intense training for IM, ITU, Superleague?

Stress release of cortisol could have had some effects on the body also that contributed. Hard to say as you mentioned it was probably a lot of different things, but I do hope you'll be back at it soon!
Last edited by: Vegan Tri: Apr 8, 22 11:03
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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dtoce wrote:
It seems like you have a very good understanding of how sf's occur. I thought the video you made was extremely good and will help others for sure. We should get Dan to link this in his 'Hot Forum Topics' regarding injury here on slowtwitch.

i created a *stress fracture* category. as you may guess, over the years we've had dozens of threads on stress fractures: 3 on tibial stress fractures just in the last couple of years. the other areas where we've had a lot of threads are calcaneus (heel); metatarsal. we also have a separate category for high hamstring tendinopathy and i wonder how often hamstring avulsion fractures and this are misdiagnosed (in one direction or the other). anyway, LOTS of you have had stress fractures, men and women.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Lucy,

Thanks for the information and for stopping by here!

Quick question for you (and really anyone): Has any of your profession team mentioned how mental stress may manifest itself into a physical feeling or something that can be "measured" (for lack of a better word)? You obviously had a lot of mental stress from Reece's health concerns and I wonder if there is any real way to know when it's time to turn down the physical training in balance with an increase in mental stressors? I would think mental stressors could be more "hidden" in your body and harder to know when it is actually effecting your recovery than physical stress.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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Is there more detailed info on Reese's story?

http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Fuzzyrunner (cool name)

This is a really great question; the answer, in my experience, is YES. Psychological stress can absolutely manifest into physical stress, and it can be measured to a degree. I often see changes in my HRV and sleep performance when stressed. My physio can tell if I’m stressed from the tension in my muscles. My performance (particularly swimming) is poor when I’m stressed. Reece can often tell through observation of my daily training and my mood; he often points out that maybe something needs to be changed or something is out of balance or that I just need to take a rest. Unfortunately, he was not around to observe the build-up of this particular situation.

We have set up an environment where stress is kept to a minimum. However, it’s impossible to avoid all the time.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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FuzzyRunner wrote:
Hi Lucy,

Thanks for the information and for stopping by here!

Quick question for you (and really anyone): Has any of your profession team mentioned how mental stress may manifest itself into a physical feeling or something that can be "measured" (for lack of a better word)? You obviously had a lot of mental stress from Reece's health concerns and I wonder if there is any real way to know when it's time to turn down the physical training in balance with an increase in mental stressors? I would think mental stressors could be more "hidden" in your body and harder to know when it is actually effecting your recovery than physical stress.

Physical and mental stress can release cortisol (stress hormone). I recently noticed morning, lunch and evening workouts were causing my fasted blood glucose to run outside normal range. I cut out evening sessions and it returned to normal. I thought it was diet and took high GI foods to nothing never thinking a along it was the training load of evening workouts.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Lucy Charles wrote:
Hi Fuzzyrunner (cool name)

This is a really great question; the answer, in my experience, is YES. Psychological stress can absolutely manifest into physical stress, and it can be measured to a degree. I often see changes in my HRV and sleep performance when stressed. My physio can tell if I’m stressed from the tension in my muscles. My performance (particularly swimming) is poor when I’m stressed. Reece can often tell through observation of my daily training and my mood; he often points out that maybe something needs to be changed or something is out of balance or that I just need to take a rest. Unfortunately, he was not around to observe the build-up of this particular situation.

We have set up an environment where stress is kept to a minimum. However, it’s impossible to avoid all the time.

Just want to say thank you for your replies. Very illuminating to have information shared from someone at the top of the sport.

Best of luck in a fast recovery.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Lucy Charles wrote:
Hi Fuzzyrunner (cool name)

This is a really great question; the answer, in my experience, is YES. Psychological stress can absolutely manifest into physical stress, and it can be measured to a degree. I often see changes in my HRV and sleep performance when stressed. My physio can tell if I’m stressed from the tension in my muscles. My performance (particularly swimming) is poor when I’m stressed. Reece can often tell through observation of my daily training and my mood; he often points out that maybe something needs to be changed or something is out of balance or that I just need to take a rest. Unfortunately, he was not around to observe the build-up of this particular situation.

We have set up an environment where stress is kept to a minimum. However, it’s impossible to avoid all the time.

In one sense, I'm really bummed for you as I know how it feels to not be able to exercise. My kids were volunteering at St. George and they were absolutely inspired when you ran by them. Excited to see you get back at it when you rest and heal up. There's plenty of time for continued world domination yet! I even think after a strategic rest period like this you'll come back stronger than ever.

I guess not being able to exercise for an extended period, is a good time to work on mental strengthening. Mediation and relaxation breathing techniques might be something to look at?

Best wishes to Reece too.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
[On 12 March said on other thread] She is at home training hard....No secrets or conspiracy theories to excite the social media masses
Didn't age well. If you establish a reputation for feeding the SM masses, and then starve them, do not be surprised if there are 'withdrawal symptoms'.

21 Jan: (her vid) Intending to do the volcano tri on Lanzarote at the end of Feb....
End Feb: on Lanzarote (17 Mar) start list.
31 Mar: Only decided the hip was a problem a week ago.
Why not race Volcano Tri? Why not race Lanza? If not a problem till (say) 20 March.
Fair to assume that this has been troubling since mid Feb (latest). Finally "reached out to Red Bull" etc in mid March.
Thought this latest video was high on supplements and low on diet limitations and intolerances stuff.
Hope, with all the help and advice she mends as well as can be expected and gets back to fitness prudently.
Glad husband has all clear (assumed).


.
Since you are trying to play detective but clearly haven't looked at her social media..
March 12th Lucy was training hard at "The Pain Cave" (as she was in her Feb 24 post) and all was well..
...
"Friday smiles; with the pink bike & pink lights

Enjoying the process & seeing the gains"... Facebook
.
__________

On March 23 she announced her expanded partnership with Wahoo and was still training.
"I’m excited to announce that I’m expanding my partnership with @wahoofitnessofficial this year & will be working on even more projects with them going forward!
Get ready to see me smashing out sessions with the added help of the new Wahoo Elemnt Rival Watch and Powrlinkzero Pedals! "
Facebook
__________

On April 1st she released this video which clearly explains everything (and which clearly you didn't watch) including that the start of the year hasn't been a good one for her and Reece and that they have both been stressed with Reece's illness.
You seem to be looking for some kind of conspiracy .People in the public eye also have private lives and shit happens.

Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Apr 8, 22 13:27
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the response!

How are you measuring HRV? Is sleep performance based on a watch (technology) or just more on just your own observations? Do you feel your swim is the first to be impacted by stress? Unfortunately, I do not have a Reece to make outside observations about me haha. I'm sure it's very beneficial to have a partner that is in-the-know about performance and what to look for, from the outside, when it comes to your stress/fatigue.

I wish you the best of luck as you heal! I am JUST coming back from 2 months off because of some odd quad issue/strain. Am still wondering if some of my issue stemmed from more psychological stressors over physical.

Please keep us updated on your progress! Maybe swing by here during St. George race day thread and give us mortals some insights about the race through your eyes!
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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On a side note,Macca starts hinting at who "may" replace Lucy at the SUB8 challenge...A lot of people here don't like Macca but the guy has one of the best minds in the sport and I can (and have personally) listen to him talk triathlon for hours.

The LCB/SUB8 stuff starts at 42:30

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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Great video posted today by the cb camp. As someone going through a sacrum hip stress fracture right now, I certainly was interested!

I’d be curious to understand how vitamin k2 levels influence bone density/calcium absorption. In my research, it’s just as important as vitamin d and calcium levels. I’m still doing research on this myself but didn’t hear that mentioned in the video.

Anyways, cool to see lucy engaging in the thread. Like she said in the video, pros are always walking that line of stress and recovery, and even with everything perfect (which they rarely are) these things can happen. Sounds like a lot of research has been done to make sure it won’t happen again. In the meantime, I look forward to following along in the recovery process. With no pain present, I’m still hopeful she’ll be in the pool shortly if not already.

Category 2 Road Cyclist w/ Aspiring Tri Ambitions | | My Strava Profile | | '22 AZ 70.3 | | Based in Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [theyellowcarguy] [ In reply to ]
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Great effort to explain 'why'. Warning: fact and opinion in combination.
"The True Cause of my Injury | Learning to Run Again"

GWS and fit to race again, Lucy.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jun 3, 22 12:28
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Well said.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
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She has an IM tattoo.........

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
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Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.

Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
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I only breath to one side...but I'm also not a world class open water swimmer or national class 1500 swimmer...

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Quote Reply
Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)

It may just be that she is carrying a bit of subtle assymmetry over and I think she mentions she has a scoliosis and on top of that, she is pretty new to running and does not have the base of a kid who grew up playing soccer or field hockey or track. She literally went from no running at all to running at a near world class triathlete level with not that many years of running base, so she is applying more force than most of us, on less base on higher weekly miles. She also did a lot of intensity short course racing last year so that probably was all new to her. So I think there is an element of truth to her swimmer asymmetry compounding events leading to her stress fracture.
Quote Reply
Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.

Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)

It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.

blog
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It may just be that she is carrying a bit of subtle assymmetry over and I think she mentions she has a scoliosis and on top of that, she is pretty new to running and does not have the base of a kid who grew up playing soccer or field hockey or track. She literally went from no running at all to running at a near world class triathlete level with not that many years of running base, so she is applying more force than most of us, on less base on higher weekly miles. She also did a lot of intensity short course racing last year so that probably was all new to her. So I think there is an element of truth to her swimmer asymmetry compounding events leading to her stress fracture.

Good points, I'll stand corrected then.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.

Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.


Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???


I think the point of breathing one side only is it is a red flag to asymmetry. Why would you breath to one side if you had proper body symmetry and balance. Every one side breather I have watched and/or worked with does not complete the needed rotation which allows breathing to both sides. So it is not about breathing to one size causing the body imbalance, it is about breathing to one side demonstrating an imbalance that could result in numerous kinetic chain problems.
Quote Reply
Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.

Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???

I breathe to the left primarily and my stress fracture was in my right hip/femur. I had a minor bike crash and landed on my right hip. I was in the middle of IM training and continued to train and about a week or so later, I started feeling something in my hip. So that was obviously the cause of my stress fracture but the conversation around breathing to one side and asymmetry got me thinking more about little niggles I always tend to get particularly on my right side. My right side feels somewhat disconnected when I run and sometimes when I bike. I tend to over stride when fatigued and I'm not always using the correct muscle groups while running or biking. I don't think swimming or breathing to one side is the root of the issue but I think they are somewhat related. I've started to really focus on my catch in the water and ensure I'm not slipping or using one side more than the other. Essentially, I'm trying to be more symmetrical in the water but I'm still primarily breathing to the left side.... I'm just not "loping" or having any hand slippage.

blog
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [IntenseOne] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
IntenseOne wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.


Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???



I think the point of breathing one side only is it is a red flag to asymmetry. Why would you breath to one side if you had proper body symmetry and balance. Every one side breather I have watched and/or worked with does not complete the needed rotation which allows breathing to both sides. So it is not about breathing to one size causing the body imbalance, it is about breathing to one side demonstrating an imbalance that could result in numerous kinetic chain problems.

Well, I haven't done a detailed study but the vast majority of the top swimmers breath to one side; from Phelps and Ledecky on down to top local swimmers, I'd guess at least 80 % are one side breathers.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericmulk wrote:
IntenseOne wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.


Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???



I think the point of breathing one side only is it is a red flag to asymmetry. Why would you breath to one side if you had proper body symmetry and balance. Every one side breather I have watched and/or worked with does not complete the needed rotation which allows breathing to both sides. So it is not about breathing to one size causing the body imbalance, it is about breathing to one side demonstrating an imbalance that could result in numerous kinetic chain problems.


Well, I haven't done a detailed study but the vast majority of the top swimmers breath to one side; from Phelps and Ledecky on down to top local swimmers, I'd guess at least 80 % are one side breathers.



Exactly ^^^^^ This is beyond reason. Too much Red Bull.....
Quote Reply
Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [stevej] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.


Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???


I breathe to the left primarily and my stress fracture was in my right hip/femur. I had a minor bike crash and landed on my right hip. I was in the middle of IM training and continued to train and about a week or so later, I started feeling something in my hip. So that was obviously the cause of my stress fracture but the conversation around breathing to one side and asymmetry got me thinking more about little niggles I always tend to get particularly on my right side. My right side feels somewhat disconnected when I run and sometimes when I bike. I tend to over stride when fatigued and I'm not always using the correct muscle groups while running or biking. I don't think swimming or breathing to one side is the root of the issue but I think they are somewhat related. I've started to really focus on my catch in the water and ensure I'm not slipping or using one side more than the other. Essentially, I'm trying to be more symmetrical in the water but I'm still primarily breathing to the left side.... I'm just not "loping" or having any hand slippage.

Hmmm, interesting info. I too swam at the D3 level but I also played tennis as well so I was always doing a good bit of running every year. I never was good enough at either sport to just focus on one. I also breath on my left side most of the time but I've never felt "disconnected" on my right side per se. Aside from one summer of plantar fasciitis, I haven't had any running injuries per se but rather just injuries from various bike crashes. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
IntenseOne wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.


Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???



I think the point of breathing one side only is it is a red flag to asymmetry. Why would you breath to one side if you had proper body symmetry and balance. Every one side breather I have watched and/or worked with does not complete the needed rotation which allows breathing to both sides. So it is not about breathing to one size causing the body imbalance, it is about breathing to one side demonstrating an imbalance that could result in numerous kinetic chain problems.


Well, I haven't done a detailed study but the vast majority of the top swimmers breath to one side; from Phelps and Ledecky on down to top local swimmers, I'd guess at least 80 % are one side breathers.

Is that for racing or for all swimming they do? Probably not a big deal if you breath to one side for race scenarios. A bigger deal if you breath to one side for thousands of k of training.

Category 2 Road Cyclist w/ Aspiring Tri Ambitions | | My Strava Profile | | '22 AZ 70.3 | | Based in Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [playguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
playguy wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
IntenseOne wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.


Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???



I think the point of breathing one side only is it is a red flag to asymmetry. Why would you breath to one side if you had proper body symmetry and balance. Every one side breather I have watched and/or worked with does not complete the needed rotation which allows breathing to both sides. So it is not about breathing to one size causing the body imbalance, it is about breathing to one side demonstrating an imbalance that could result in numerous kinetic chain problems.


Well, I haven't done a detailed study but the vast majority of the top swimmers breath to one side; from Phelps and Ledecky on down to top local swimmers, I'd guess at least 80 % are one side breathers.



Exactly ^^^^^ This is beyond reason. Too much Red Bull.....

ST is following the bouncy ball here. The "breathing to one side" comment was the smallest portion of the video (and LCB acknowledged that). The majority of the video talked about stabilizing running muscles and the inward rolling of her ankle.

Still, because I can't help myself, I will point out that Phelps and Ledecky aren't putting hundreds of running miles on their body so they're probably not the best comparison.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]
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Wait, you don't remember Phelps and Ledecky winning all those medals on the track too?
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Th4ddy] [ In reply to ]
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Th4ddy wrote:
Wait, you don't remember Phelps and Ledecky winning all those medals on the track too?

Yeah, I think I missed those races. However, I'm also sure (and saddened) that they can probably both run faster than me, too!
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]
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JFHJR wrote:
ST is following the bouncy ball here. The "breathing to one side" comment was the smallest portion of the video (and LCB acknowledged that). The majority of the video talked about stabilizing running muscles and the inward rolling of her ankle.

Still, because I can't help myself, I will point out that Phelps and Ledecky aren't putting hundreds of running miles on their body so they're probably not the best comparison.

Agree ref small (I'd say tentative) possible partial cause, and I think I said that on Page 1 of this thread.
I don't know whether Phelps and Ledecky enjoyed a reasonably varied sporting curriculum in their teens: if they did then maybe that would mitigate the risk of a swimming 'monoculture' that some young athletes are forced or guided into (until they 'win' or quit. It may be that without that lazer focus all through their teens they'd not have turned out so supremely dominant.
The problem ahead is that once 'one' has had a stress fracture, a recurrence is more likely. So LCB (and others in the same boat) will need to make judgements about whether to run hard and fast on asphalt (eg for standard or sprint distances) and whether to carry on trying to train for full distance (ie marathons) in the future. I'd like to see her back to her best in the autumn, in time for maybe the PTO Tour race in Dallas and then to retain her 70.3 world champs title.

Very little said about any dietary changes or particular dietary aspects which might maximise her recovery and rehabilitation. Maybe the satisfactory blood, vitamin levels, bone density and other tests means that that has been considered and has been discarded as an actual contributory cause.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jun 6, 22 9:28
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [theyellowcarguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
theyellowcarguy wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
IntenseOne wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.


Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???



I think the point of breathing one side only is it is a red flag to asymmetry. Why would you breath to one side if you had proper body symmetry and balance. Every one side breather I have watched and/or worked with does not complete the needed rotation which allows breathing to both sides. So it is not about breathing to one size causing the body imbalance, it is about breathing to one side demonstrating an imbalance that could result in numerous kinetic chain problems.


Well, I haven't done a detailed study but the vast majority of the top swimmers breath to one side; from Phelps and Ledecky on down to top local swimmers, I'd guess at least 80 % are one side breathers.


Is that for racing or for all swimming they do? Probably not a big deal if you breath to one side for race scenarios. A bigger deal if you breath to one side for thousands of k of training.

They train as they race, so yes, one-sided for literally tens of millions of yards/meters.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JFHJR wrote:
playguy wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
IntenseOne wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
stevej wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.


Did your injury occur on the same side that you breathe on or on the other side??? And which side do you breath on???



I think the point of breathing one side only is it is a red flag to asymmetry. Why would you breath to one side if you had proper body symmetry and balance. Every one side breather I have watched and/or worked with does not complete the needed rotation which allows breathing to both sides. So it is not about breathing to one size causing the body imbalance, it is about breathing to one side demonstrating an imbalance that could result in numerous kinetic chain problems.


Well, I haven't done a detailed study but the vast majority of the top swimmers breath to one side; from Phelps and Ledecky on down to top local swimmers, I'd guess at least 80 % are one side breathers.



Exactly ^^^^^ This is beyond reason. Too much Red Bull.....


ST is following the bouncy ball here. The "breathing to one side" comment was the smallest portion of the video (and LCB acknowledged that). The majority of the video talked about stabilizing running muscles and the inward rolling of her ankle.

Still, because I can't help myself, I will point out that Phelps and Ledecky aren't putting hundreds of running miles on their body so they're probably not the best comparison.

True Phelps and Ledecky don't run very much but note I said "from Phelps and Ledecky down to top local swimmers" so I'm covering literally 10s of 1000s of swimmers, a sig portion of whom will give triathlon a try at some point.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [oprfcc] [ In reply to ]
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oprfcc wrote:
Well said.
Another good video on rehab exs, bit of 'head stuff' and a bit of nuitrition. Again Salzburg looks top drawer.

Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jun 8, 22 1:40
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
oprfcc wrote:
Well said.
Another good video on rehab exs, bit of 'head stuff' and a bit of nuitrition. Again Salzburg looks top drawer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYFk0IyVTrA

And no mention of the breathing to one side. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]
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I thought the video was great. I’m rehabbing the same injury now. I shared it with my PT and we are now adding in lots of ankle exercises.

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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Off topic, but is it ever not time to remember David Foster Wallace? On tennis players:

"With few exceptions, all the [pro tour tennis] players have similar builds–big muscular legs, shallow chests, skinny necks, and one normal-size arm and one monstrously huge and hypertrophic arm."

See https://www.esquire.com/...avid-foster-wallace/.

:-)
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