I'm confused, that cartoon seems to be implying that the US was at one point complicit in a certain German leaders conquests.

Well written op-ed piece. I was unaware the issue had been percolating for a few years. As far as confronting the past, this one is going to hurt; Geisel's books are part of my childhood and then my kids'. As much as I'd prefer the world moved past this issue, apparently that's just not going to happen.

The Grinch that cancelled Dr. Suess.

Why does Hitler need to be brought into every conversation? /pink

I take it to mean the America First movement shares some similarities with the Nazi movement and some of the mightiest minds have a hard time figuring it out because they may be entrenched, presumably knowingly if they are “mighty” or possibly that was more satire.

Here’s a different take from an NPR article.

I havnt read on the subject in a while. But dr suess was supposedly an all around horrible person (I think he drove his wife to suicide) and cheated on her when she was terminally ill.

All of this was around 10 years ago. And you can still find his books. Making it known that someone is a shitty person and then letting the public decide is fair game. What the alternative? Not letting people know?

If I remember correctly The America First movement was the major isolationist group fighting against the US entering WWII against the Germans. Pearl Harbor put an end to that.

It's Seuss [remember this clue: it's E before U]

And we've been pronouncing it wrong all along

"You’re wrong as the deuce
And you shouldn’t rejoice
If you’re calling him Seuss.
He pronounces it Soice (or Zoice)."

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/...euss_n_12560154.html

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

It appears that Dr Seuss is canceling himself
https://apnews.com/article/dr-seuss-books-racist-images-d8ed18335c03319d72f443594c174513

Disney did it too, with some of the more odious early Mickey Mouse and Looney Tunes

I havnt read on the subject in a while. But dr suess was supposedly an all around horrible person (I think he drove his wife to suicide) and cheated on her when she was terminally ill.


All of this was around 10 years ago.








Seeing that he died in 1991, unlikely.

---

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.

I think he meant he read about it 10 years ago?

Yeah. This news has been out a while add suess is still in stores.

quote kiki]Disney did it too, with some of the more odious early Mickey Mouse and Looney Tunes[/quote]
Looney Tunes [Bugs Bunny & Co] are Warner Bros., but yes, they've even taken Elmer Fudd's guns away

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I mean, have you heard of the MS St. Louis?

Looney Tunes [Bugs Bunny & Co] are Warner Bros., but yes, they've even taken Elmer Fudd's guns away

[/quote]
Well, long before that they figured out that Song of the South had all kinds of problems and stopped showing and selling it.

'Cancelled" is being misused as much as fake news. The question isn't whether or not Seuss should be "a victim of our cancel culture" as the column's title reads (interestingly the tone of the title has nothing in common with the tone of the column). We know there was a lot of racism there. We know MJ had a long history of predatory behavior with young kids. We know Jefferson kept his wife's biological half sister as a sex slave. These people aren't "victims" of anything.

The question is can we enjoy the works and appreciate the accomplishments of people with pretty horrible flaws? It's a lot easier to do that after they are dead. They aren't seeing the fruits of it and we don't have to pretend they are good people. If the bad part aren't inextricably entangled with the good we do it all the time.

And for all those people who think this is new, they cancelled suspected communists in Hollywood 70'ish years ago and look what happened to his career when Jerry Lee Lewis married his way underage cousin. We have done this all the time, we just used to call it blacklisting.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Well, long before that they figured out that Song of the South had all kinds of problems and stopped showing and selling it.

'Cancelled" is being misused as much as fake news. The question isn't whether or not Seuss should be "a victim of our cancel culture" as the column's title reads (interestingly the tone of the title has nothing in common with the tone of the column). We know there was a lot of racism there. We know MJ had a long history of predatory behavior with young kids. We know Jefferson kept his wife's biological half sister as a sex slave. These people aren't "victims" of anything.

The question is can we enjoy the works and appreciate the accomplishments of people with pretty horrible flaws? It's a lot easier to do that after they are dead. They aren't seeing the fruits of it and we don't have to pretend they are good people. If the bad part aren't inextricably entangled with the good we do it all the time.

And for all those people who think this is new, they cancelled suspected communists in Hollywood 70'ish years ago and look what happened to his career when Jerry Lee Lewis married his way underage cousin. We have done this all the time, we just used to call it blacklisting.[/quote]
My favourite example: Akhenaten canceled polytheism and worshiped Aten. After his son's death they went back to polytheism. They canceled him so hard, they wiped him from history! Statues were destroyed, they moved the capital back to Thebes from Amarna, destroyed temples in Amarna, and exhumed and moved his body. That was 3500 years ago (1350s BCE)

"So it shall be written; so it shall be done!"

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I think we have to be really careful with cleansing literature.

My litmus test is Mark Twain. Mark Twain was straight racist in his early literature. But he changed. A lot. And ended up writing some of the best anti-racist satire there is. (though even that used some terminology that wouldn't fly today).

But I don't think we should mess with Twain one little bit. Rather we should equip readers with the tools to process it.

I'm willing to accept that maybe the readers of Dr. Seuss (or the children's cartoons mentioned) can't be reasonably expected to have developed those tools yet. And also that Dr. Seuss maybe never progressed or engaged in satire (I'm not familiar enough with his work - it never appealed to me in the slightest at any age).

I recently purchased a collection of the works of Mark Twain because I fear they might one day be unavailable. I'm in no rush to read them, having done so as a child, but I want to have the option.

Mark Twain's work is in the public domain now, so not really publisher-dependent. At least digitally-speaking (I have the entire works of Twain on my Kindle).

I don't think we'll ever get to the point where it goes from publishers choosing not to sell/distribute any more to outright Fahrenheit-451-grade scrubbing of the works from the planet. Or if we do, it'll have gone way beyond wokeness-gone-wild.

Damn!!! I just went 451 on the OTHER thread

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

This, exactly.

If works of literature or childrens cartoons or whatever presented racist concepts or beliefs in the past, that's part of history that should be preserved and understood. People were overtly racist back then, it makes sense that art and culture reflected that mindset. But to wipe it from existence is to ignore that it was a major societal issue at the time, what does the future look like if you don't really understand history?

I think it's fine to judge individuals within the context of their time period, there certainly were people with great contributions to this country and art and society who were shitty humans, that should contribute to our image of that person. But any works they produced should certainly be maintained and available if people want to dive into them.

Yup, this had me hanging my head. I am a little disappointed in myself that I didn't pick up on the messaging ... I'm not as woke as I thought, clearly. I'm fine admitting that.

A lot of artists who create amazing things are absolutely horrible trainwrecks of humanity and I don't always disregard their creations based on their awfulness. I keep them separate.

But I used Suess books as examples for my kids of being a good person type stuff. Sneeches, Yertle the Turtle, The Lorax ... that seems incongruous now.

 He was a political cartoonist and an advertising executive, in the 30's and 40's before he went into children's books and became "Dr. Seuss". I loved his books and they were instrumental for me when I started to learn to read and to get me excited to read. He had the very remedial books like Hop on Pop and more advanced books but even those only ( at least for me ) became remedial by 4th-5th grade. Nothing better to read or be read to as a kid than iambic pentameter.

I remember one of the books they are no longer going to publish and may be pulled from some libraries/schools. "And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street." this is the text.

And To Think I saw it on Mulberry Street. By: Dr.Seuss When I leave home to walk to school, Dad always says to me, “Marco, keep your eyelids up And see what you can see.” But when I tell him where I've been And what I think I've seen, He looks at me and sternly says, “Your eyesight's much too keen.” “Stop telling such outlandish tales. Stop turning minnows into whales.” Now, what can I say when I get home today? All the long way to school And all the way back, I've looked and I've looked And I've kept careful track. But all that I've noticed, Except my own feet Was a horse and a wagon on Mulberry Street. That's nothing to tell of, That won't do, of course.... Just a broken-down wagon That's drawn by a horse. That can't be my story. That's only a start. I'll say that a ZEBRA was pulling that cart! And that is a story that no one can beat, When I say that I saw it on Mulberry Street. Yes, the zebra is fine, But I think it's a shame, Such a marvelous beast With a cart that's so tame. The story would really be better to hear If the driver I saw there were a charioteer. A gold and blue chariot's something to meet, Rumbling like thunder down Mulberry Street. No, it won't do at all... a zebra's too small. A reindeer is better; he's fast and he's fleet, And he'd look mighty smart On old Mulberry Street. Hold on a minute! There's something wrong! A reindeer hates the way it feels To pull a thing that runs on wheels. He'd be much happier, instead, If he could pull a fancy sled. Hmmm.. A reindeer and a sleigh.. Say-anyone could think of that, Jack or Fred of Joe or Nat-- Say, even Jane could think of that. But it isn't too late to make one little change. A sleigh and an ELEPHANT! There's something strange! Say! That makes a story that no one can beat, When I say that I saw it on Mulberry Street. But now I don't know... It still doesn't seem right. An elephant pulling a think that's so light Would whip it around in the air like a kite. But he'd look simply grand With a great big brass band! A band that's so good should have someone to hear it, But it's going so fast that it's hard to keep near it. I'll put on a trailer! I know they won't mind If a man sits and listens while hitched on behind. But now is it fair? Is it fair what I've done? I'll bet those wagons weigh more than a ton. That's really too heavy a load for one beast; I'll give him some helpers. He needs two, at least. But now what worries me is this.. Mulberry Street runs into Bliss. Unless there's something I can fix up, There'll be an awful traffic mix-up! It takes Police to do the trick, To guide them through where traffic's thick – It takes Police to do the trick. They'll never crash now, They'll race at top speed. With Sergeant Mulvaney, himself, in the lead. The Mayor is there, And he thinks it is grand, And he raises his hat as they dash by the stand. The Mayor is there and the Aldermen too, All waving big banners of red, white and blue. And that is a story that NO ONE can beat When I say that I saw it on Mulberry Street! With a roar of its motor an airplane appears And dumps out confetti while everyone cheers And that makes a story that's really not bad! But it still could be better. Suppose that I add... A Chinaman who eats with sticks... A big Magician doing tricks.. A ten-foot beard that needs a comb... No time for more, I'm almost home. I swung 'round the corner and dashed through the gate, I ran up the steps and I felt simply GREAT! For I had a story that NO ONE could beat! And to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street! But Dad said quite calmly, “just draw up your stool” and tell me the sights on the way home from school” There was so much to tell, I JUST COULDN'T BEGIN! Dad looked at me sharply and pulled at his chin. He frowned at me sternly from there in his seat, “was there nothing to look at..No people to greet? Did nothing excite you or make your heart beat?” “Nothing,” I said, growing read as a beet, “But a plain horse and wagon on Mulberry Street.”

A Chinaman who eats with sticks was the line and this is the picture that got it removed.

If you are curious I found what I think is the or perhaps a research paper with citations about how they studied his works.

https://sophia.stkate.edu/...050&context=rdyl


It's not too long of a read and like so many times there's a lot more depth and context than you get in a short online article.

If you wait long enough, basically anything will look bad in retrospect. The most innocent things from your childhood will be judged to be racist, or sexist, or evil in some way that couldn’t have even been imagined at the time of their creation.

Curious George is about a white man who brings a monkey home from Africa. Obviously racist.

Babaar is about a an Elephant who gets educated and then comes home to civilize his wild friends and family. Obviously an endorsement of white Christian colonialism.

Pinky and the Brain is about an intelligent mouse constantly berating his clearly mentally challenged brother, while constantly plotting acts of terrorism.

Loony Tunes made fun of people with speech impediments, mad light of firearms safety, and glorified violence against animals.

Pepe Le Pew was the epitome of rape culture.

Playing Cowboys and Indians,....do I even have to explain?

The Jetsons. Everyone in the future is apparently white, and the maid is a female robot. Racism and sexism in one shot.

Fat Albert. Fat shaming. Speech impediment shaming. Black stereotypes. And let’s not touch on the Bill Cosby aspect.

All it takes is time and distance, and almost anything can be reinterpreted in the worst light.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I'm not getting the hullaballoo here.

Dr Seuss is not being cancelled.

Some of his books are being taken out of print, at the behest of the estate and/or publisher.

Books are taken out of print *all the time* for all kinds of reasons.

Whether or not these particular books were still economically viable (I doubt it), or were being published as a "completionist" presentation of his catalog, this selection carried an additional burden -- shame. Thanks to images that some kid sitting in a library might find sad-making, because they're crude stereotypes or mocking in some way.

How many of the pulled titles has anyone actually read? We have just one on our shelves, and the family was all in on Seuss when the kids were little.

The real classics remain.

I am not shocked by any of this. We have Mulberry street and there are some questionable cartoons in it for sure.

However, if you read his work he actually teaches lessons about not judging people among other things.

The Sneetches is clearly about racism/discrimination and we've used it to help discuss these things with our oldest son and will again with the younger son.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

this is spot on. How long before people start burning their Dr. Seuss books (or any other book that offends them) in barrels in the town square.

2 years late in WW1
3+ years late in WW2.
Happy to embrace ex Nazis who developed weapons of terror and destruction... providing they shared that technology and then developed it further in the USA.

But don’t all these things get cancelled in due course anyway?

Most books stop being in print. This is a natural end to things.

Barbar the elephant i think is different than curious George. People taking wild animals from Africa as pets is a thing.

As a note. I rewatched some old Disney/ animated movies and man some of the messaging was crazy. Little mermaid and the aristocats “everyone wants to be a cat” especially.

Not everything gets cancelled. I don't have my own kids, but I am sometimes shocked to see my nephews reading the same kids books I was read as a kid 40 years ago. Lots of that stuff sticks around, or if it goes away, it's because it's just replaced by something more relevant or "cooler." A book just no longer being available in print isn't the same as actively getting rid of it because it's now considered offensive.

Are we ready to "cancel" Shakespeare? Romeo and Juliet has very young teens committing suicide together. His plays are filled with stuff that would be considered misogynistic today, or sexist, or racist, or classist.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Never. Dr. Seuss was not cancelled. You are being lied to.

The people who control the estate have stopped publishing some of the books that you have never heard of and never owned. They did that because he grew as a person and they decided that to preserve his legacy they would take the books with racist depictions in them out of print.

No one is burning his fucking books. The outrage is fake and being pushed by people who are trying to distract you.

The best way to know Biden is doing a good job is that the biggest controversies of the day are plastic potatoes and unread Dr. Seuss books.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Interesting commentary from long time Conservative Jennifer Rubin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/03/why-republicans-are-screeching-about-dr-seuss/
Why Republicans are screeching about Dr. Seuss


Republicans prefer to talk about amorphous memes than about policy or legislation.

Quote:

First, they feed the insatiable need for anger and resentment to fuel the base. Republicans need to fill their supporters with irrational, unchecked fury so as to remain the MAGA cult’s warriors in a forever war against the “left.” There will always be another Dr. Seuss story to fixate on; hence, the fodder for the base never runs out.

Quote:

Second, Dr. Seuss fulmination sure beats talking about policy issues for which Republicans have no answer or unpopular proposals (e.g., continue to freeze the minimum wage, reject $1,400 stimulus checks). There is nothing to be done about cultural phenomena; hence simply hollering about them serves to establish their political bona fides.

Quote:

Republicans take shelter in these empty memes with particular intensity when their own conduct and that of their white-supremacist allies are front and center (as was the case on Tuesday when FBI Director Christopher Wray testified about the role “racially motivated extremists” played in the Jan. 6 violent insurrection).

Rubin is spot on. The fixation with irrelevant and imagined cultural slights fits with Republican politicians’ conception of their roles. They are performers for right-wing media, not legislators or problem-solvers. Their outrage-of-the-day focus fits that mind-set and indeed gets them play time on right-wing outlets.

I agree that Dr. Seuss is not being cancelled. However, let's not pretend that Dr. Seuss Enterprises took this action purely out of the goodness of their hearts. It's a response to some degree of public and academic discussion about his earlier work that has been ongoing for several years, and is (to one extent or another) a PR move.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

As you said not everything gets cancelled. The things getting “cancelled” are generally either the most offensive or for other business reasons. Dr suess isn’t going away. These controversies are a decade old. Certain books will get pulled. It’s a business decision by the publisher. Another publisher could buy the rights to it.

Shakespeare isn’t getting cancelled. He is the most published author of all time. It’s silly to pretend that is going away. If schools move to other books to teach, the schools are just choosing to elevate someone else. It’s not really cancelling William. There just is so much space/time. If schools choose they want to teach different things because the work of art from hundreds of years ago doesn’t resonate today, is that cancel culture?

cancel culture is most certainly not a new thing. It’s also not like these works are being burned/labeled as illegal - and put out of existence. Just business decisions.

I am not sure what the line of “this thing is cooler” vs “wow this is offensive” is. Offensive things generally are not cool in the mainstream to take up space, thus they get replaced by less offensive goods. Things getting cancelled normally by time because they fall out of mainstream for various reasons is normal, including because the audience has changed.

Never. Dr. Seuss was not cancelled. You are being lied to.//

All I know is that I have a couple of these books, and will be shortly putting them up on eBay. Perhaps this was like a stock pump and dump, books selling in the 1000's of dollars for the right issue and condition. Crappy paperbacks are going for $50 to 80 bucks. Imagine if you were a book store or hoarder and had a warehouse full of these, be like owning Tesla last year!!!

Let's also not pretend that some of the images in those specific books aren't racist as all hell.

It's to his credit that Geisel grew as a person but there is a reason these books are being taken out of print. And that Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben are being retired. Song of the South isn't shown any more. And that eeny meeny miny mo had the words changed.

Changing times don't mean it used to be fine, it just means racists used to get away with it.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I think there are some of those images that are now considered racially insensitive or stereotypical. And some of his early cartooning is based in obvious racist stereotypes.

The questionable image in Mulberry St for example, is pretty mild. The picture of black people in If I Ran the Zoo is much more obviously offensive, but I'm not sure I really see anything particularly offensive in the other image that's being cited in that book of the "Arab" Chieftain.

My guess is that they're erring on the side of caution.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

First no one is saying ban the books, just read a good article on how library's handle these types of issues, Little House on the prairie being one of them. They move them out of the kids section to more Historical or Special collections. People check them out, but not just not kids, Librians and adults use them to teach and educate.

Yes some of the things you have above are inappropriate and stopped, some your clearly being silly.

But don't we as individuals and society learn, improve and grow?

Why is it bad to look back and say, yikes that was not really appropriate. I mean science books are changed all the time as we learn more, why should we not look at literature and say wow the way they portray xx is wrong and we need to be careful with this?

Oh you forgot Sanford & Son as another one that probably is best left behind.

So do you still think Tribes in africa are filled with a bunch of people running around naked eating each other cause they are natives and thats what they do.. (Oh yeah that episode of Gilligan's Island is probably left behind also).

I don't get why all the outrage, about looking back and saying ahhh that wasn't really the best. And in case you don't know Folks from China don't look like that picture or run around with sticks..

I guess it goes back to an observation I made a while ago about "Republicans" they wont admit they were wrong, they choose words carefully to avoid saying they were wrong. I enjoy now getting into discussion with some around me, and when I make a mistake and they pounce I just say oh yeah I was wrong, my mistake, now back here you said this and here is proof that is wrong.. silence. Look at all the covid shit.. anywhere along the way did they say oh wow that was some bad advice. NOPE but when a Dem does it they jump all over them, look you screwed up. Oh yeah at the time it seemed like the right thing to do was say don't wear a mask cause we needed um in the hospital, but yeah that was kind of bad, so a bit later we said where them.. Its called learning and growing, something it seems the Republicans are to perfect to do. I think this whole "cancel" culture comments of their is just another example. What you want us to say we wrong to own people.. Uhm no that's not happening, You mean it was wrong to depict blacks as dumb animals.. CANCEL CULTURE... I wonder if any Republican would look at the Tuskegee drug testing and admit yeah that was pretty wrong. Yeah, just like when you eat something and you don't like it, you dont go eat it again, is that food cancel culture should we still have lead in paint cause hey why not?

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Oh and they are not canceling Dr. Suess.

THE PUBLISHER decided not publish 6 of his books. 2 of which no library in about 100 mile radius even has copies of (boy that seems like a big loss) 2 other's I had not heard of and 2 were somewhat classics.

Rational folk are not saying to burn all his books, libraries are not pulling them from the shelves.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Please explain why it is mild. As an Asian American I disagree. I don't think you understand our experience. Is it as severe as blacks? Obviously no, but because it is less doesn't mean it is mild.

Of course I don't understand your experience, and neither do you understand mine. And I wouldn't presume to tell you what to take offense to. That said, relatively speaking, this illustration is a fairly mild one.

It depicts a Chinese man in fairly nondescript outfit, wearing a hat vaguely reminiscent of conical hats commonly found across Asia, and eating out of a bowl with chopsticks which originated in China. The shoes seem to be representative of Japanese wooden clogs, but other than that crossover of clothing items, the pictures itself doesn't show the man in a demeaning or ugly manner. Yes, he looks a little silly, but so does everyone else in the book, and in every Dr. Seuss book.



Seuss's depiction looks at least in the ballpark, for example, of this early photograph.





By contrast, this is one of his earlier depictions of Japan which is obviously and openly playing on racist stereotypes.



So, again, I would characterize the first cartoon as relatively mild. Mild compared to some of his overtly racist images from magazine/newspaper comics, and mild even compared to several of his depictions in some of his other children's books. If you see it differently, that's certainly your prerogative.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Of course your skipping the words that go with that page.. something about people with sticks who come from countries to hard to spell.. yes china is so hard to spell, I guess Japan, or Korea must be the hard ones.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Cause they are not asian american, so old American stereotypes are just silly fun.

Just wait he will post a pic of someone sitting stately who remotely looks like the person "running with sticks" and say see its reality...

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Thanks explaining and defending what you know about your understanding and perspective. Sorry that it bothers you that you can't buy Mulberry Street anymore.

The comment and question was about the images, so,...go fucking figure, I stuck to the image. Of course we can also talk about the words associated with that image. They're not what you describe, of course, but don't let that get in the way of your self righteous outrage.

Here are the words:

...A Chinaman
Who eats with sticks...

That's the entirety of the text involved with this image. It's a Chinese man (Chinaman) eating with chopsticks (invented in China). Again, relatively mild.

There's nothing about countries that are hard to spell, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

The term "Chinaman" is probably the primary the offensive part, because we now associate "Chinaman" with negative stereotypes and racism. However, that wasn't necessarily how the term was used in 1937 when this book was published. It was similar to Englishman, Frenchman, etc. and was defined neutrally in dictionaries at the time, and used by Chinese people to self describe. Like many ethnic or national descriptions, it has taken on negative connotations now. Kind of like how a few years back, for several years, the preferred term was African Americans, and calling someone a Black person was frowned on.

Again, I'm not going to try to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be offended by. But on the spectrum of offensive racist material, this stuff is extremely mild.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

It doesn't upset me at all, and I'm not complaining about the publishing company choosing to stop making the book available. As I said, they've been on the receiving end of growing discussion about Seuss' work for several years, and are making a decision to respond to that criticism. That's well within their rights, and I don't have any particular problem with their decision.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Not sure why you've decided to act like a cock this evening, but maybe try tamping down that smug self righteous bullshit and read back through my posts. Nothing I've said reinforces any of the nonsense you're now seemingly determined to spew.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I didn't say it was bad to learn and grow. I said that, given enough time, many many things from our past don't look as innocent as they once seemed. Sometimes we learn that those things were legitimately wrong. Sometimes we just change our minds about what's offensive or not. Sometimes actions or activities in the between years cast the original content in a different light. and sometimes people are just looking for something to be offended by.

As for cancel culture, I stated several posts ago that I agreed with another poster that Seuss wasn't being cancelled. I never talked about burning books.

If you're determined to be outraged by something, find something else, because it's not there in what I'm posting in this thread. Go looking somewhere else for something to be pissed about.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Caricature - a picture, description, or imitation of a person in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.

Believe what you want to believe from what you've read, watched, etc. I'll believe what I want from what I've experience and witnessed.

⬆️ This irritates me.

Is the person who writes the first sentence above the same person who writes the second? He must have had a mental hiccup.

A caricature is not necessarily offensive, so tossing out the definition doesn’t really establish any particular point. There’s a guy down on the boardwalk who draws caricatures on the weekend for a few bucks a pop.

There aren’t any particularly exaggerated features in the image we’re discussing, at least, not any more so than basically all the other people in this book, and all of Seuss’ books.

As I said, I’m not telling you what to be offended by or not. I recognize that some people are offended by this and various other images from the books in question, and I’m good with the publisher’s choice to stop selling them.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Exactly right.

Whitesplaining to no end. Goodnight.

Bite me.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"Whitesplaining"? Is that a racist caricature I just heard? Why yes, I believe it was.

There's a reason smart comedies lampoon this bullshit. Because it's laughable.

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

to this point only

why is the boardwalk guy successful? Because he captures individual features and exaggerates to create highly individual portraits.

Seuss makes all of his caricatures look alike. This massing or swarming of 'the other' is a big part of the offence. It denies individuality and distinct personhood.

It's in no way exclusive to the left. The right just has a much larger persecution complex.

On that point, I'm surprised the right hasn't already cancelled him for his deceitful use of the title Doctor.

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Every character in every Seuss book is a caricature.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Yup, x1,000

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

This thread wouldn’t be complete without a west coast style rap rendition of Fox in Sox by a doughy white Englishman.

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Please explain why it is mild. As an Asian American I disagree. I don't think you understand our experience. Is it as severe as blacks? Obviously no, but because it is less doesn't mean it is mild
---

I'm willing to buy what you're selling. But, I'm totally missing out on the product description. You asked slowguy to explain and he did so. However, I think you're missing out on a great opportunity to explain the other side of the coin. Other than posting the definition of a caricature, I have no idea why you disagree that the images/ descriptions in the Dr. Seuss books were offensive to you. Is it just a gut feeling that you didn't like or were there some specifics? These are serious questions because I really like learning stuff and don't want to inadvertently make mistakes that I didn't know were mistakes.

---

---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Yurtle the Turtle for not being a piece of garbage who gains value by taking it from others (basically a form of rent-seeking behavior).

Green Eggs and Ham for trying new stuff.

Lots of others that we had in heavy rotation for a long time.

Fox n Socks..I don’t think I spent much time on the lessons within that one. Honestly it was mostly me not looking forward to the “goo goooeeeyy” parts leading up to it and realizing how that part simply owns me after that leading to the end.

Maybe Fox n Socks was all about grit.

How does the right wing distinguish between their actions towards Colin Kap and their hatred for “cancel culture” ?

They do not have the desire or ability to distinguish. Racism blinds the mind.

There is an easy guide for this:

If conservative snowflakes react to something, it just means that they are reacting to something that is "wrong", or to something that that hurts 'Merica, or something that harms our 2nd amendment rights to bear arms and kill humans and animals.

But if progressives react to something, well, that's cancel culture.

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

I feel like the last one has to be taken with a grain of salt and you have to recognize the date it was done for context. That was one literally within months of the bombing of Pearl Harbor. So I’ll cut him some slack.

This is where in a lot of these cases it’s difficult for me to cancel things that were done decades and centuries ago. Unless you were morally ahead of your time and went against what your parents/community taught, you did/said something that now is now morally wrong.

We need to learn from these mistakes and do better, but also recognize that not every person who came before us was a horrible, racist, sexist, scumbag because they didn’t live up to the expectations of today. Because if that is the bar, we might as well just start almost all history books with, “all the people you read about in this book were pieces of shit”.

We have people who are homeless, who are dying from lack of food, from lack of medical care, etc etc right now. If that is the bar, some day in the future, who knows when, when those problems are gone, people will look back and say our generations were also giant pieces of shit. But that would fail to recognize that changing what was ingrained into you as a child by your family and community is not an easy thing to change and in most cases it’s a long incremental road to significant change. That is with the assumption the human species is even capable of wide scale “perfection”, which I think is highly debatable.

Also. In general regarding copyright laws. Hasn’t congress - not sure what party - extended the rights of the copyright holder to be 70 years AFTER the authors death.

This is a long ass time.

With digital media once the copyrights are expired why can’t almost everything be put online and be somewhat available?

You can literally find Timothy mcveighs manuscript online.

Even if suess is being canceled right now. Based on copyright law, it’s only temporary so the historical context (or but Shakespeare!) arguments are minimal. But if congress wanted to shortern this period, they def could. (Green eggs and ham was published in the 1960s and will still be protected by copyright until 2060

That's easy. He deserved it.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Absolutely. And those two images are excellent examples of what I stated earlier, which is that Seuss produced much worse illustrations in his comics for magazines and newspapers.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I’m not seeing a whole lot of learning here. Before we can get to the second half of your sentence about excuses for racism or sexism, we need to deal with the first part establishing the mistakes in order to learn. Orderly thinking is important. First you establish what a person has done wrong, and then you look at defending it.

There is a serious reluctance in this thread to believe that Dr. Suess caricatures were a mistake. How do we know they were a mistake? First, they make Asian Americans feel bad. That’s good evidence. Second, we know that Dr. Suess operated within a broader society that exaggerated Asian features in popular media to humiliate, demonize, caricature, and exclude Asians from society. We were so serious about this effort that we used internment camps. This is also good evidence.

It’s a good idea for lay people to defer to experts on certain subjects. Slowguy is not an expert on what it’s like to be a minority. That is an irrefutable fact. When he minimizes or denies a minority’s experiences and expertise, that’s a terrible act. (He did that.) That’s wrong, and it should be called out.

You may hate to hear it, but you have to LISTEN to learn. Your teachers told you that forever— they were right. So, listen. Do not minimize or deny someone else’s lived experiences.

This thread contains a level of hostility toward Hubcaps that is detrimental to teaching and learning.

Slowguy: never listened.

Eb: your “gotcha” moment shows you’re not listening.

Tri-banter: you came to the thread with a sincere request for Hubcaps to explain exactly how the caricature is offensive. I think the right moment for a sincere request had already passed at that point in the thread— the thread was already pretty hostile. The added burden of explaining to you isn’t really nice. If you want to understand Asian caricatures in American culture and the feelings of the Asian community about it, maybe Google it. You can assume some of the work or burden of learning. That would be nice.

Where did i not listen?

I understand as much as I can about where they’re coming from. I don’t know if no longer printing is the right answer. But it’s their choice so whatever. I have no problem with agreeing that they were a mistake and can be seen as harmful by the communities they affected. If this is the right action to prevent further harm so be it.

But I’m also not going to sit here and act like in the era they lived in you or I would have done any better. Humans are a tribal species, we have killed each other for 1000s of years. In the middle of a war, in which we had just been caught with our pants down, people were scared shitless. I’m not surprised we set up interment camps. It’s very easy to go back and say we did the wrong thing for the wrong reasons when all is said and done. But if you look at it from a lens on when it happened it’s easy to see why it happened right or wrong and maybe not hate the people who did it so much.

We still have a large portion of the US that is openly racist. I’m not surprised that a few people here don’t see at as big deal is and I don’t fault them for it with the scenarios we discussed, that aren’t blatantly racist. My guess is they’re more on the anything can be offensive if you want to view it that way, side and put some of these things in that group.

Most movement of someones view something is on a continuum, it’s not absolutes. As Dan says we are generally closer in agreement than we are apart and I think this is one of those situations. Saying they aren’t listening or don’t get it, isn’t the way to bring them closer.

Your first post on this subject had roughly 14 statements in it. It included only 1 statement supportive of learning from our mistakes. You spent no time acknowledging that caricatures of Asians in books used to teach children to read are inappropriate. I think you would agree that racism is learned, not innate. It’s actually funny that your defenses of the content are that racism is learned.

Particularly in a thread where certain people are denying that the offensive content should really offend, spending half a sentence acknowledging that we need to learn from our mistakes before moving on to defenses is not really going to promote learning from our mistakes.

In your second post you you say, “I understand as much as I can about where they’re coming from.” No, I’m pretty sure you are capable of learning more. To think you’ve maxed out your capacity for understanding is selling yourself short.

You say, “I don’t know if no longer printing is the right answer. But it’s their choice so whatever. I have no problem with agreeing that they were a mistake and can be seen as harmful by the communities they affected. If this is the right action to prevent further harm so be it.” This is weird. You’re so passive and agreeable, yet you go on to aggressively defend learned racist behavior in the next paragraphs. It’s not “their choice.” This is everyone’s choice. It’s your choice to either listen and learn, be silent, or spend your time defending racially offensive content.

Is removing racially offensive content from books written and used for the purpose of teaching children to read the right thing to do to prevent future harm?

If racism is learned, it would make sense to remove racist content from books that teach little kids to read.

I agree with much if not most of what you say above. But here's where I come to a sticking point, please help me understand.

It’s your choice to either listen and learn, be silent, or spend your time defending racially offensive content.


ok. But what if you have information, or context, or some sort of personal experience, that makes you question if racism, a true evil, is really involved? To do so risks accusations of not listening, or white-splaining, or otherwise denigrating the claimant's perceptions. Which may, sometimes, be incorrect or skewed.


an example. A friend on social media (who is not white) claimed as a 'hate crime' the fact that she had firecrackers thrown at her feet on a holiday in a European city. I've been there too, the same holiday, and had firecrackers also thrown at my feet. it's what the assh*le kids in that city do, to everyone.


so in this instance, the perception of racism seems unjustified, and indeed harmful. But politeness, sensitivity, and to be honest, the current climate, weighs against saying anything.


again, i agree with most of what you post, but this aspect of the discussion is perplexing.

Seen elsewhere, these censorious folks were dubbed "Woke-O Haram."

I don’t know. I think if the discussion is emotionally safe and respectful, you could present your own experience. You guys might then try to figure out together if the facts are the same or different.

Here’s something: they may have thrown the fireworks at her because she’d black. They might have thrown the fireworks at you because you’re a woman. They might have thrown them at her because she’s a woman. They might have thrown them because they’re assholes. We don’t know.

if the discussion is emotionally safe and respectful, you could present your own experience.


yeah, no, social media isn't the place for it. Too public. On the happy day when i meet her in person (as opposed to just liking or sharing her posts) that discussion may happen. Just thinking about that makes me tear up, I miss people.


thanks for your thoughts, you're right there in the mix and i'm grateful for your insights.

Thank you, kiki, for your kind words. I appreciate them.

And over we go to the top selling books list on Amazon...

https://www.amazon.com/...ks-Amazon/zgbs/books

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

https://www.nationalreview.com/...urge-dr-seuss-books/

Unfortunately, this simply isn't enough for some people these days here in the LR and in social media platforms in general.

It's not enough to admit that an image is questionable.
It's not enough to acknowledge that two people have different life experiences and probably can't see each other's points of view perfectly.
It's not enough to acknowledge that people of various ethnicities, races, or nationalities might very well be offended by these images.
It's not enough to acknowledge that the publishing company is free to make the decision not to publish these books anymore, or to say that you're ok with that decision.
It's not enough to tell another person that you aren't and wouldn't presume to tell them what to be offended by.
It's not enough to offer civil discussion explaining your point of view, even though the other person only offers insults.

You are obligated to be exactly as offended by whatever the subject is as the other person you're talking to, and even that probably isn't enough. Don't bother asking the other side to offer any actual thoughts or insight into their position; you're just supposed to accept that you're wrong and they're right, despite what actual positions are held on either side. Bottom line is that you're at fault for presuming to engage in this type of discussion while wearing white skin.

Steve Hawley and I don't always see eye to eye on how he responds to some of the posts and posters in this thread, but he's right about one thing. There has been a marked increase in shitty posting behavior by a handful of posters over the past 6 months or so, as if they are trying to outdo the worst right wing Trump supporters in making the LR an antagonistic self-righteous us-v-them environment.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

And none of them are any of the 6 books in question. Whoever said "any publicity is good publicity" hit the nail on the head.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Also idiots are gonna idiot.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I've been trying to follow this thread as I'm the OP. I continue to be speechless because I have no idea what to think, I'm still trying to digest all of the commentary and additional information.

Well,....yeah. If this thread proves anything, it might be that.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Right wing outrage machine: "The government should not force our private businesses to serve Blacks and the gays!".


The Same Right Wing outrage machine: "The government needs to force eBay to sell racist memorabilia even if they don't want to sell it!"

And also... delisting some of a well known authors lesser known books is one hell of a marketing ploy.

Just a guess but I think two things are at play:

1. People have been reminded of Dr. Seuss and have decided to buys some of their favourite books.
2. More though... people saw ‘Dr Seuss is being cancelled’ headlines, didn’t actually read the articles and freaked out and bought as many Seuss books as they can find before they are all gone.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Yep, that was one of my earlier points. It may very well be that the publishers looked hard at the problem alongside academics and teachers, and then made a good faith effort to remove objectionable books because it’s the right thing to do. And that’s great.

But the publishers also surely knew that they could pretty easily stop publishing these 6 books, since they were not among his more popular, and not take any significant hit to their sales. And their marketing division surely knew that the discussion would generate more sales of their most popular books as well.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Apologies. I didn’t read the entire thread. It was... tiresome.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Yep.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Just responding to the latest - one of the questions I have is the banishing of 'And to Think That I Saw it on Mulberry Street', due to this image:
https://www.google.com/...mO8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD


Am I not seeing a Chinese person with food and some chopsticks? The term 'Chinaman' isn't acceptable these days, so language changes and you republish with something else...but what am I missing? I do see things like Lucky Charms and the Notre Dame Fighting Irish and general drunk Irish stereotypes and that's a generalization of my own heritage, and I don't really think much about it. I guess I'm questioning why this book and particularly this image is offensive.

EDIT: Also this:
https://www.distractify.com/p/why-is-mulberry-street-offensive


Dr. Seuss even tried to correct for this by updating the imagery and description in the book. 'Chinaman' became 'Chinese man'. The yellow pigmentation became white. I again ask: what is the offense in this image?

Stand by. Based on previous responses to similar posts in this thread, you’re probably a terrible horrible racist who hates kittens and panda bears.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I want to be surprised at this thread, but I'm not. These things frustrate me, but don't surprise me anymore.

I’ve seen several later career Seuss cartoons explicitly mocking and condemning racism, and advocating for victims of racism. You would think that, when assessing the merits of one’s total body of work, and ultimately their character and worthiness of respect, that reformation to enlightenment and seriously efforts to right past wrongs would tilt the scale in their favor.

His legacy, in the end, should be that of an ally to anti-racists, not “problematic.”

It’s a shame how context seems to matter so little anymore.

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

It’s a shame how context seems to matter so little anymore.

Amen brother!

I'm gonna continue to decry this silencing and erasure of history---whether it be a Budda; a song; a book; a work of art. It's erasure of history. Who are we in our smug self-righteous little temporary spot in history to assume we know what's best and right about all that has gone before us and all that will come after us. What arrogance. Exemplified by comments of many of the smug self-righteous on this current forum. Nattering Nabobs of Negativism indeed.

Doesn't matter whether the good Dr's estate was bludgeoned into self-censorship or the mob took the books out the library and burnt them. They're no longer available!? EBay won't even let you sell them now!? Ain't that some modern shit?

Somewhere The Lorax (and MattinSF) is breathing a sigh of relief he escape the purge---for now.

Regarding the last picture by Dr S that Slowguy posted. Take it in context of WWII. Not saying it's right or wrong. Take it in the context of when it was written and where.

Very good book (it's academic so pretty dry stuff but wonderfully researched and exhaustively written) by John Dower----War Without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War. Dower shows the racism used---by both sides---playing to their respective populaces' deepest fears so as to further national war aims. We're talking playing to deepest collective fears here to manipulate a national populace The picture Slowguy cited above come directly from that genre. Here are a couple more:

US Propaganda


Japanese propaganda---seems sophomoric at best to our current eye but understand the psyche of the Japanese populace back then and the intent and impact is very large



So the banning---or self banning--of six of Dr S's books doesn't seem like a big deal. In the micro it's not. In the macro it's yet another small step towards a dark future. And we've only to look back a few decades to see how bad that future can be

*Shout out to a personal stab to my heart by Woke Liberals where one of my childhood favorites was stripped of a prestigious book award title because a few lines she wrote. Laura Ingalls Wilder's "Little House on the Prarie" series
https://www.npr.org/...emoved-from-book-awa

---

Steve

Who is erasing history? Are these books gone, can you not find them anymore? Are they being burned in the town square? Not putting something out for public consumption on a daily basis does not equate to erasing history. They aren't banned, they just aren't being published further. You do see the difference? The example you gave regarding the history book pretty much shows how that information can be used in the future.

Most of the libraries I've read about are keeping the Dr. Seuss books on the shelf but may be moving them to different areas instead of the children's section. There are a few who are looking at, or have removed them, but my guess is that will change and those who did remove them will put them back as historical information.

With the stab to your heart, did they destroy all of her books or just take her name off an award? What history was erased? With that being said, I think it's silly to remove her name but I have not been in any position to be offended by her writing.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

We’re taking steps toward a dark future? One filled with Easy Reader books which are devoid of racist images or words?

It might ease that stabbing pain in your heart to know that the vast majority of classics are still being read and discussed in schools. For instance, my son read Of Mice and Men this year. It contains racism (the n-word), sexism, violence, ableism. These books will be read and discussed in high school and college. It’s not like they’re being burned. Liberals don’t burn books. We just move them to a different, clearly labeled bookshelf.

What do you want? Do you want to keep Dr Suess books and expect kindergarten teachers to discuss racial issues as they work on sight words with 5 year olds?

This whole thing is really pissing me off. It is clear the GOP has nothing. Their big issues right now are that the owners of 6 books they never knew existed decided to not print them any more and what name a plastic potato should go by.

It is all just bullshit to distract from their actual bad acts and refusal to act on real issues. And their acolytes just fall in line.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

You forgot frozen windmills

There are about zero Kindergarten teachers reading Dr Seuss and having to address racial questions from their students---unless said students have been primed to do so by activist parents.

Just let the books be. They will sink or swim on their own based on their merits and desire for reading. Based on my understanding of modern teaching methods there is about zero teachers out there using these books anyways. So let the books be. Let the statues be, and recognize them within their context. Let the Buddas be. as they were for thousands of years. Let the poems stand. Let the fight song so many love go on [I'm a TAMU grad so don't really give a shit about UT]


Where is this hole in your life that you feel such a need to reach out and attack any and every thing you don't like or agree with?

---

Steve

Two things, well three actually.

As for Suess: let words stand and redraw the Asian character and others as required. Add in some racial historical perspective as an added teaching moment. Also so neat that in pre K virtual school for grandson, they just read Green Eggs and Ham this week. Nana and the teacher had a lovely chat about how that was their first book they learned to actually read. One more thing about green eggs, . I never did read that book as a child, but I was served and ate green eggs and green ham for breakfast as the opening event to a near on day long initiation ceremony while crossing that famous line at sea. I am sure with women now at sea that ritual may have undergone some sensitivity updating as well.

And lastly, it is not holes in one's life that causes one to address perceived wrongs, but rather the size of one's heart.

Where is your boundary?

Clearly you're one of the pure here on this forum in your denigration of Dr S. So you pass that purity test. Leaping on to the next test to show purity where does it go?

Let me give you a example that just needs cleaning up. American Literature. It's horrible. Filled with impurities that can't be tolerated by good thinking folk like you and me.

Why this piece of work that some aclaim as a modern piece of word art--a great American Novel (and even made into a movie so many enjoy).

Lonesome Dove

Filled with racist talk. Can't have that. Need to get this book off the public market ASAP


New mission for you

---

Steve

Brother

I disagree. There are people out there with big hearts---like you. And then people that have holes in them they're trying to fill. Some of the later seek it here on this forum as they attempt to wrestle with what it is they're wrestling with.

Not to disparage them. They are different than you tho.

---

Steve

Holes in life or large hearts? Opinions or assholes? I'll just end with the current source for most all our (well, some of us) collective grievance owns no heart and has lived a life with the express intent to generate only holes in others. I'd die happy having engaged him in a wrestling match.

dont let him put your hip joint out of socket if you get to wraslin

---

Steve

Seeing as how he has already set my mind off course and out of socket, no worries about further damage here. If pain inflicted equals pain received, I still die happy. No refs no illegal holds.

Why do you feel attacked?

Is criticism of things you love an attack on you?

I grew up with Dr. Suess, Little House on the Prairie, Walt Disney, church, Bible stories. I like that stuff. There is good stuff in there. I loved Laura Ingalls Wilder so much that my mom sewed a country style dress, apron and poofy bonnet that I wore on picture day in 2nd grade. The picture is absolutely hilarious. I’ll share it if I can find it.

I don’t feel personally attacked when people criticize those things. My heart is feeling whole and robust. I’m not seeing the hole.

Your heart has stabbing pain. Why are you hurting? This is probably very important to think about because if we can figure it out, you’ll be happier. Your happiness is important.

Just curious where you stood on the right wings beliefs that players should be forced to stand during the national anthem or the players would be suspended.

A step towards our dark future of the mob bludgeoning people into conforming to their beliefs. I assume you actively talked about how the right wing was bad on bludgeoning people into their own beliefs.

Because he likes and supports those things and it pains him that people are moving on from his values and beliefs from 1852

I doubt Steve Hawley likes the portions of the books that people find offensive. He probably thinks that the good parts outweigh the bad.

I was talking with someone who said she doesn’t censor things for her kids. She wants them to know the real world— she takes the good with the bad. She’s a realist.

I don’t like compromises in quality when it comes to certain things for my kids. I buy the kid jewelry that doesn’t contain unhealthy metals. I buy food that hasn’t expired. It’s undeniable that some communities have lead in the water, just as racism exists in media. We could be realists and accept lead in water because it exists, just as we could use books with racially offensive content because they exist. But that’s normalizing and accepting inferior products.

I think this general topic is more important than the specifics of this little Dr. Suess case. I’m guessing that teaching acceptance and equality to young kids has probably been the largest driving force in changing America’s attitudes about race. The equality gains seem to come as new generations enter adulthood— it’s not through some shift in the thinking of adults. In fact, we excuse older Americans for their racist beliefs constantly— we do everything in our power to be hands-off with those venerable racists.

If racism is learned, then why in good heavens wouldn’t we be very careful about what happens in our institutions of learning?