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High HR when running
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Hi All,

About Me


36 years old and quite active but not massively fit
Did my first sprint triathlon about a month ago in a stupidly slow time of 2hrs 10 mins
I don't cycle much these days as I have no indoor set up or space, and I'm really busy with work

Running


I started running about 10 months ago but quite inconsistent. I can now run 5k most days if I wanted, and sometimes 10k 2-3 times a month if needed.

I am slow, I run a 5k in about 32 minutes.

I have a Garmin Fenix 6 and a Wahoo HR strap to go with it. I noticed when I first go it that when out on a "normal" run, my HR was about 170-180. I now know that this is in the very high range.

On another run, I tried to slow RIGHT down and it was still about 160.

Today, I went out:
  • I was running about 12 mins per mile at times
  • I covered only about 2.5 miles before I stopped as my HR was just continually going up and I was stopping so often
  • I stopped running anytime my HR went about 150 which was every 40-45 seconds roughly
  • After about 10 seconds of walking I started to run again
his is because my watch keeps telling me I am training too hard.

Today whilst running, I don't think I could have gone slower, it was almost embarassing, as I was jogging but barely moving anywhere.

Any advice?

Any thoughts on this? My resting HR is about 55 bpm, my top is 185bpm.

Thanks all






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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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What was outside temp?
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Re: High HR when running [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
What was outside temp?

Cool and overcast. I am in the UK.

Temperature - 12C / 53F
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
What was outside temp?

Cool and overcast. I am in the UK.

Temperature - 12C / 53F
How much do you weigh?
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Re: High HR when running [duganator99] [ In reply to ]
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duganator99 wrote:
redrabbit wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
What was outside temp?


Cool and overcast. I am in the UK.

Temperature - 12C / 53F

How much do you weigh?

I am 5ft 7 in height and weigh around 175lbs. That is heavier than the normal runner but I am generally broader and have a past history in weight lifting.

That could be why I'm guessing but I would have thought it wouldn't affect my HR so much - I've been running for 9-10 months now
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Re: High HR when running [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
What was outside temp?

My first question as well.

With gyms closed during the summer I had to run outside and would have massive cardiac drift when running in the morning when it was 85º, 95% humidity and a dew point of 78º. So when its warm and humid, higher HR is to be expected.

But if it's in the 50's, then that's prime running weather. I suspect you may just need more consistent training and the HR will slowly start to come down relative to pace.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
duganator99 wrote:
redrabbit wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
What was outside temp?


Cool and overcast. I am in the UK.

Temperature - 12C / 53F

How much do you weigh?

I am 5ft 7 in height and weigh around 175lbs. That is heavier than the normal runner but I am generally broader and have a past history in weight lifting.

That could be why I'm guessing but I would have thought it wouldn't affect my HR so much - I've been running for 9-10 months now
Unfortunately weight is a pretty big deal. How hilly is the area you run in?
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Re: High HR when running [duganator99] [ In reply to ]
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duganator99 wrote:
Unfortunately weight is a pretty big deal. How hilly is the area you run in?

It was flat as a pancake.

I am planning on losing about 14-16lbs roughly, but I don't want to go too light. Maintaining some shape/muscle is still important to me.

From what I've read online it's about base building. But I thought I'd have done that by now :-(
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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HR is very individual and you have to learn what's normal for you. For example, a zone 1 run, which feels like I'm barely faster than a walk, is in the low 160s. If I were to run a 5k-10k for a personal best, my HR would be in the low 190s. I'm not even close the the highest 'normal' of people that I've worked with. So, continue to run and learn your numbers. Then let your numbers decide what is high/ low for your heart.

(Note: Make sure you pay attention to more than just the HR numbers though. Like, does it feel like your heart is working harder than normal? Are you excessively winded for the effort? Is your HR higher than expected for you at that pace?)






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: High HR when running [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
HR is very individual and you have to learn what's normal for you. For example, a zone 1 run, which feels like I'm barely faster than a walk, is in the low 160s. If I were to run a 5k-10k for a personal best, my HR would be in the low 190s. I'm not even close the the highest 'normal' of people that I've worked with. So, continue to run and learn your numbers. Then let your numbers decide what is high/ low for your heart.

(Note: Make sure you pay attention to more than just the HR numbers though. Like, does it feel like your heart is working harder than normal? Are you excessively winded for the effort? Is your HR higher than expected for you at that pace?)

Thanks. That sounds like great advice

Is it worth me also doing a "lactate guided threshold test" which my Garmin has on there?
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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If you do the 30 min HR test you'll know a lot more. Run 30 mins at the max pace you can sustain for the whole 30 mins. Start your HR measurement after 10 min (use the lap button on your Fenix). In the last 10 min you should hit your max HR. Using that you can calculate your zones for training.

You could have a natural ability to have a HR when running. I'm 60 years old. Calculations say my z2 is 120 and my max HR is 160. In the 30 min test, my max HR is 177 and my zone 2 is 128-137. My wife is 60 and her max is 187 - much higher than even mine.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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As Mr. Banter said...its more important to know how it feels...and then learn to associate the HR with that feeling and pace. It will vary with temperature, humidity, fatigue, etc. But, you will learn what normal "should be" for any particular set of circumstances.

A new runner like you...should just run easy. Focus on running at a pace that is comfortable and you can hold a conversation easily...and that you can hold for the entire length of your workout without stopping. Don't worry about your HR much. It should really just be perceived exertion at this point. Do that for a while and learn what your HR looks like when you run "easy". Learn what your HR looks like when you run a hard 5k. Learn what your HR looks like when its hot outside vs. cool vs. cold. Learn what your paces are like in these different situations.

Once you've done that for a while and have learned what to expect, then you can begin to use HR as a guide for some things. But, I don't use HR all that much. I run by pace and perceived exertion, and only use HR as a limiter when its super hot outside. Otherwise, I don't even display it on most of my watch screens.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Is it worth me also doing a "lactate guided threshold test" which my Garmin has on there?

I wouldn't bother at this point. If you run a 5k or a 10k or something make note of your avg pace and HR from the race, as that can/will be useful down the line. But, for now...I'd just focus on how you FEEL, and increasing your volume and frequency. When you've got some months under your belt, with some more miles in your legs...maybe revisit the threshold test idea.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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OP

Listen to Tom---trust me on this...
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Some cross training also could be helpful to increase your cardio engine like cycling, elliptical, stair-master, walking up a steep incline on the treadmill, jump rope, etc.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Hi All,

About Me


36 years old and quite active but not massively fit
Did my first sprint triathlon about a month ago in a stupidly slow time of 2hrs 10 mins
I don't cycle much these days as I have no indoor set up or space, and I'm really busy with work

Running


I started running about 10 months ago but quite inconsistent. I can now run 5k most days if I wanted, and sometimes 10k 2-3 times a month if needed.

I am slow, I run a 5k in about 32 minutes.

I have a Garmin Fenix 6 and a Wahoo HR strap to go with it. I noticed when I first go it that when out on a "normal" run, my HR was about 170-180. I now know that this is in the very high range.

On another run, I tried to slow RIGHT down and it was still about 160.

Today, I went out:
  • I was running about 12 mins per mile at times
  • I covered only about 2.5 miles before I stopped as my HR was just continually going up and I was stopping so often
  • I stopped running anytime my HR went about 150 which was every 40-45 seconds roughly
  • After about 10 seconds of walking I started to run again
his is because my watch keeps telling me I am training too hard.

Today whilst running, I don't think I could have gone slower, it was almost embarassing, as I was jogging but barely moving anywhere.

Any advice?

Any thoughts on this? My resting HR is about 55 bpm, my top is 185bpm.

Thanks all



It actually sounds like your Wahoo Tickr is faulty. I've had 3 Wahoo Tickrs die on me. One worked well until it died, the other was highly inconsistent, similar to the inconsistency you can get with optical HRMs. The first one I got a credit and I bought a Tickr X. This was faulty out of the box and would read incredibly low. They replaced it with another Tickr (not the X) and this one has been fine. I would imagine the 180 bpm you are getting on your "normal run" is a faulty reading, this is zone 5 for you. I think you can calibrate the Wahoo HRMs with the app? Perhaps do a 3km run with the Wahoo Tickr, not the HR then do a 3km run the next day with your Fenix 6 optical HRM and compare. The optical HRMs aren't great, but it should still give you a closish reading to the Wahoo, if the Wahoo is working correctly.
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Re: High HR when running [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
HR is very individual and you have to learn what's normal for you. For example, a zone 1 run, which feels like I'm barely faster than a walk, is in the low 160s. If I were to run a 5k-10k for a personal best, my HR would be in the low 190s. I'm not even close the the highest 'normal' of people that I've worked with. So, continue to run and learn your numbers. Then let your numbers decide what is high/ low for your heart.

(Note: Make sure you pay attention to more than just the HR numbers though. Like, does it feel like your heart is working harder than normal? Are you excessively winded for the effort? Is your HR higher than expected for you at that pace?)

My RHR is in low 40s (used to be mid 30s when in my 30s) 46yo.

My record is a 192 HR average for my second half marathon (2h02m). Even now, a few years later then I am at 170 for 1h35 for that distance. On the bike, my HR is 130 if I push 210w, 140hr for 250w (IM pace) and 145-150 for 70.3 pace (270w). Running tend to sit at 160-170 for long distance (25-33k) training runs. My peak is nowaday at 197hr for absolute all out death sprints on zwift / running hill sprint reps. In the past 210hr was a peak.

So regardless of fitness (wasn't fit before, would say I was for the last Half marathon) and with 20 years of fairly consistent endurance training then my HR still doesn't respond like textbooks say. I start low, go higher than most, but then also am able to sustain those high HR for a long time.

Just embrace it, if you've a concern at all, then talk to your doc. They may chose to run some tests, in my case they gave me a 72hr HR monitor. But you'll then feel more confident and worry less.
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Re: High HR when running [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Slow down and slowly build mileage. Stick to not adding more than 10 percent of miles/time from the previous week.

It’s going to suck for a couple months, but Rome wasn’t built in a day.

I run 60 miles a week and 85 percent or more of them are in the middle range of my zone 2 HR.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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When I first started at 35 year old I was running 13.5 min/miles to stay at 145 bpm so you can slow down more.
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Re: High HR when running [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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sometimes my wahoo reads my cadence vs my hr. it almost always corrects itself in the first 5-10 min though.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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You might want to get an EKG done. I went for a long time thinkIng I run with a high HR naturally and also thought my HR strap was faulty at one point. I discovered later I was in A-fib. I was 37 y/o at the time.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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As I got into my 40s I found that at the start of my runs my HR will spike (10k race level....even though I'm running quite slowly) and stay high for the first mile or so, then drop to where it should be. It then subsequently creeps up due to HR drift.

This graph is pretty typical. The drops are waiting at stop lights, and FWIW the first mile was my slowest despite the high (for me) HR.


ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: High HR when running [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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I've attached my HR graph for a run I did about a week ago. This was 5 miles in Autumn weather - not hot. I didn't push it but just ran relaxed and non stop.

Average pace - 10:51 mins/mile
Average cadence - 159
average HR:169
Highest HR: 176


Last edited by: redrabbit: Oct 14, 20 23:41
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Your heart rate graph looks normal to me. You're 36, with a bigger build, running steady on a flat course in cool weather. It feels like a relaxed pace and if you weren't in pain or feeling like vomiting, I'd say you're ok,. Just keep running and building up those weekly base miles.

How many miles per week are you running? Just based on some very broad generalizations, hitting 176 is no big deal for the average in shape 36 year old guy. Wouldn't be surprised if you can push 195 bpm in race day.
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Re: High HR when running [talegater] [ In reply to ]
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talegater wrote:
Your heart rate graph looks normal to me. You're 36, with a bigger build, running steady on a flat course in cool weather. It feels like a relaxed pace and if you weren't in pain or feeling like vomiting, I'd say you're ok,. Just keep running and building up those weekly base miles.

How many miles per week are you running? Just based on some very broad generalizations, hitting 176 is no big deal for the average in shape 36 year old guy. Wouldn't be surprised if you can push 195 bpm in race day.

Thanks talegater, that's really helpful. I have a 10k "race" on Saturday. Hoping for around 60 minutes. I will see how my HR works out.

After this I'm going to stop monitoring HR for a while as it is sucking the fun out of running.

I'm only doing about 10-12 miles a week at the moment. Around spring I did get up to 17.

I'm now focusing quite heavily on running now so going to try to build up to around 20 miles.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
talegater wrote:
Your heart rate graph looks normal to me. You're 36, with a bigger build, running steady on a flat course in cool weather. It feels like a relaxed pace and if you weren't in pain or feeling like vomiting, I'd say you're ok,. Just keep running and building up those weekly base miles.

How many miles per week are you running? Just based on some very broad generalizations, hitting 176 is no big deal for the average in shape 36 year old guy. Wouldn't be surprised if you can push 195 bpm in race day.


Thanks talegater, that's really helpful. I have a 10k "race" on Saturday. Hoping for around 60 minutes. I will see how my HR works out.

After this I'm going to stop monitoring HR for a while as it is sucking the fun out of running.

I'm only doing about 10-12 miles a week at the moment. Around spring I did get up to 17.

I'm now focusing quite heavily on running now so going to try to build up to around 20 miles.


I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea to just throw HR monitoring out the window here.

Take a look at my graph and notice the steady HR despite climbs in elevation (ignore the part around 41 mins that’s watch malfunction)

I think that’s what you want to work towards. See how there really isn’t much cardiac drift. It takes time and will come naturally the more you get consistent millage up. Once you can hit 40-50 mpw regularly you will start to shed some lbs and things should improve quicker.
Last edited by: MiRoBu: Oct 15, 20 5:34
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Re: High HR when running [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
As I got into my 40s I found that at the start of my runs my HR will spike (10k race level....even though I'm running quite slowly) and stay high for the first mile or so, then drop to where it should be. It then subsequently creeps up due to HR drift.

This graph is pretty typical. The drops are waiting at stop lights, and FWIW the first mile was my slowest despite the high (for me) HR.

This is really interesting — Im in early 40s and experience the exact same thing for the first mile or so of most runs. I initially chalked up to my HR strap connection taking a while to get “situated” for whatever reason, but it’s been so consistent including across multiple HR monitors I’ve started to think it’s real. At any rate glad to hear I’m not the only one.
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Re: High HR when running [Lordless] [ In reply to ]
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Lordless wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
As I got into my 40s I found that at the start of my runs my HR will spike (10k race level....even though I'm running quite slowly) and stay high for the first mile or so, then drop to where it should be. It then subsequently creeps up due to HR drift.

This graph is pretty typical. The drops are waiting at stop lights, and FWIW the first mile was my slowest despite the high (for me) HR.

This is really interesting — Im in early 40s and experience the exact same thing for the first mile or so of most runs. I initially chalked up to my HR strap connection taking a while to get “situated” for whatever reason, but it’s been so consistent including across multiple HR monitors I’ve started to think it’s real. At any rate glad to hear I’m not the only one.

How does your pace look over that same period ?

I notice as soon as I put my shoes on my HR jumps about 30 bpm just in anticipation of the run, but I ease into my runs usually running 30-45 seconds slower than the run average over the first mile - 10 mins and it’s pretty much all uphill.
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Re: High HR when running [MiRoBu] [ In reply to ]
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MiRoBu wrote:
I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea to just throw HR monitoring out the window here.

Take a look at my graph and notice the steady HR despite climbs in elevation (ignore the part around 41 mins that’s watch malfunction)

I think that’s what you want to work towards. See how there really isn’t much cardiac drift. It takes time and will come naturally the more you get consistent millage up. Once you can hit 40-50 mpw regularly you will start to shed some lbs and things should improve quicker.

Actually, when you are in good shape, HR should respond quickly to changes in effort....elevation is irrelevant, if you slow down climbing a hill then the effort won't change...thus neither will HR. But, if you hold a steady pace while climbing your HR should climb rather quickly to match the increased effort. If it does not, that is a likely indicator of overreaching / or overtraining.

Likewise on the downslope...someone who is in good shape should see a rather rapid drop in HR as soon as the effort level drops. If it remains high, that's either an indication of conditions (heat/humidity) or poor fitness. The same is generally true at the beginning of a workout. Again, if it takes a long time for HR to reach steady state that matches the pace+conditions...that's a likely indicator of overreaching/training.

HR monitoring for a new runner who is only running 10-12 miles a week is not going to provide much value. It won't have much relevance to when he is in better run-shape with an adequate base...except to show that his HR is different from what it was. I personally wouldn't throw it out, because I like data. But, if its having an impact on his psyche, and sucking the joy out of running...I think its fine to turn it off for now. Perhaps a compromise would be to wear the HRM, but not display the HR. That way the data is available for review later...but, not sucking the life out of the act of running.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
MiRoBu wrote:
I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea to just throw HR monitoring out the window here.

Take a look at my graph and notice the steady HR despite climbs in elevation (ignore the part around 41 mins that’s watch malfunction)

I think that’s what you want to work towards. See how there really isn’t much cardiac drift. It takes time and will come naturally the more you get consistent millage up. Once you can hit 40-50 mpw regularly you will start to shed some lbs and things should improve quicker.

Actually, when you are in good shape, HR should respond quickly to changes in effort....elevation is irrelevant, if you slow down climbing a hill then the effort won't change...thus neither will HR. But, if you hold a steady pace while climbing your HR should climb rather quickly to match the increased effort. If it does not, that is a likely indicator of overreaching / or overtraining.

Likewise on the downslope...someone who is in good shape should see a rather rapid drop in HR as soon as the effort level drops. If it remains high, that's either an indication of conditions (heat/humidity) or poor fitness. The same is generally true at the beginning of a workout. Again, if it takes a long time for HR to reach steady state that matches the pace+conditions...that's a likely indicator of overreaching/training.

HR monitoring for a new runner who is only running 10-12 miles a week is not going to provide much value. It won't have much relevance to when he is in better run-shape with an adequate base...except to show that his HR is different from what it was. I personally wouldn't throw it out, because I like data. But, if its having an impact on his psyche, and sucking the joy out of running...I think its fine to turn it off for now. Perhaps a compromise would be to wear the HRM, but not display the HR. That way the data is available for review later...but, not sucking the life out of the act of running.

I agree. Unfortunately the picture didn’t post. It had pace elevation and HR on it where it would show the correlation you described.

That being said it still takes me 10 mins to get my HR stable where I want it for the run, but I’m not going guns blazing.

I’d argue it’s much easier to increase volume when doing it at a lower effort than at a higher one.

If he wants to focus on running and become fitter, volume needs to increase.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Consistency, frequency, and volume are king. Never stop running, run more often, and eventually run more. A decent running base, for a pure runner is 6 days a week, and 35-ish miles a week. Its a wide, blurry line between 30-60mpw as far as what constitutes "really good". But, it starts somewhere in the 35 mpw or 6 hours per week range. Every, consistent, weekly mile up to 60 mpw will make a material difference in your run fitness.

Gains will be slow going below 20 mpw, but will improve significantly between 20 and 40 mpw. Running more often (days per week) will help. 4 is better than 3, 5 is better than 4, 6 is better than 5. Run a little bit, every day...try to run a little bit more this week than last week. Keep that up week over week, month over month. Don't try to run fast or hard. Just keep it all conversationally easy. If you finish each run feeling like you could keep going...you've got it about right.

Once you get into the mid to upper 20 mpw range, sneak a peak at your HR. You'll probably find it to be more meaningful. But, know that you will continue to see significant improvement as you climb up the miles-per-week mountain. Also once you get over the 25mpw range it will be of value to put some structure to your weekly miles. Come back when you get to that point...no reason to over complicate things now.

But, for now....just run a little each day. Run easy enough and short enough that you KNOW you can do this again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day, and the next. Never do something today that might jeopardize the plan for tomorrow---its NEVER worth it.
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Re: High HR when running [MiRoBu] [ In reply to ]
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MiRoBu wrote:
That being said it still takes me 10 mins to get my HR stable where I want it for the run, but I’m not going guns blazing.

I’d argue it’s much easier to increase volume when doing it at a lower effort than at a higher one.

If he wants to focus on running and become fitter, volume needs to increase.

I think 10 minutes is on the outside limit...when it takes me 10 minutes, I know I'm overreaching, and probably need a day off. I prefer to see HR stabilize around the 5m mark.

As noted above, I think its clear I completely agree with easy effort for more volume. And, I agree that 10-12 mpw isn't much to work with and more is needed for improvement. But, I argue that frequency comes before volume, and is a better long term tool for additional volume. When I want to add more volume, the first thing I do is add another short run, as a double on one of my medium days.

Once I've adjusted to the stress of the extra volume from the double, I'll work to blend that volume back into the primary run that day. For example: Tuesday is an 8 mile run. I want to get to extend that to 12. I might do my normal 8 in the morning/lunch...then do an easy 2-3 after dinner. Then I would work to extend the double to 4-5. Once I'm doing 12-13 miles that is split over two runs, then I start trading the second run miles back into the primary run. Eg, 8+5, 9+4, 10+3, 11+2, 12...over 5-6 weeks.

I don't think a gazillion short runs is great for overall run fitness. But, its a good stepping stone to more volume, and then can be transformed into longer runs (per the above).
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Re: High HR when running [MiRoBu] [ In reply to ]
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MiRoBu wrote:
Lordless wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
As I got into my 40s I found that at the start of my runs my HR will spike (10k race level....even though I'm running quite slowly) and stay high for the first mile or so, then drop to where it should be. It then subsequently creeps up due to HR drift.

This graph is pretty typical. The drops are waiting at stop lights, and FWIW the first mile was my slowest despite the high (for me) HR.

This is really interesting — Im in early 40s and experience the exact same thing for the first mile or so of most runs. I initially chalked up to my HR strap connection taking a while to get “situated” for whatever reason, but it’s been so consistent including across multiple HR monitors I’ve started to think it’s real. At any rate glad to hear I’m not the only one.

How does your pace look over that same period ?

I notice as soon as I put my shoes on my HR jumps about 30 bpm just in anticipation of the run, but I ease into my runs usually running 30-45 seconds slower than the run average over the first mile - 10 mins and it’s pretty much all uphill.

Again similar to what you experience, I think: first ~mile will be something like 10min/mile pace at 150 bpm but will then settle in at around 8:45/mile at 130 bpm. Perceived effort for that first 10-15 min is also way higher than the remainder.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I wouldn’t say it’s over reaching and maybe it’s closer to 15 mins. It’s usually right around 1.5-2 miles.

Target HR being middle of zone 2 so 135-140 based on HRR and a resting HR of 45. (Haven’t been lab tested to know max HR)

That being said there are a multitude of things that impact HR and can cause one to deviate from their target HR.

Morning runs my HR will be lower. I have nothing in my stomach including coffee.

Adding coffee will up my HR target 5bpm, similarly running in the evening your body’s HR is going to be naturally higher and I’m more likely to have carbed up 2 hours before. So it’s knowing what the different efforts feel like.

I’m not going to run a workout on an empty stomach and expect pacing to be topped off. It just doesn’t work that way for me. So if I want to do a workout where I know my HR is not going to be zone 2 I’ll do that in the evening.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Hi All,

About Me


36 years old and quite active but not massively fit
Did my first sprint triathlon about a month ago in a stupidly slow time of 2hrs 10 mins
I don't cycle much these days as I have no indoor set up or space, and I'm really busy with work

Running


I started running about 10 months ago but quite inconsistent. I can now run 5k most days if I wanted, and sometimes 10k 2-3 times a month if needed.

I am slow, I run a 5k in about 32 minutes.

I have a Garmin Fenix 6 and a Wahoo HR strap to go with it. I noticed when I first go it that when out on a "normal" run, my HR was about 170-180. I now know that this is in the very high range.

On another run, I tried to slow RIGHT down and it was still about 160.

Today, I went out:
  • I was running about 12 mins per mile at times
  • I covered only about 2.5 miles before I stopped as my HR was just continually going up and I was stopping so often
  • I stopped running anytime my HR went about 150 which was every 40-45 seconds roughly
  • After about 10 seconds of walking I started to run again

his is because my watch keeps telling me I am training too hard.

Today whilst running, I don't think I could have gone slower, it was almost embarassing, as I was jogging but barely moving anywhere.

Any advice?

Any thoughts on this? My resting HR is about 55 bpm, my top is 185bpm.

Thanks all



My advice:
Stop worrying about HR.

Run often.
Rest enough.

https://beginnertriathlete.com/...l.asp?articleid=2640
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Re: High HR when running [MiRoBu] [ In reply to ]
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MiRoBu wrote:
I wouldn’t say it’s over reaching and maybe it’s closer to 15 mins. It’s usually right around 1.5-2 miles.

At 15m...I absolutely would. The last time I saw it take that long I was in the middle of the Race Across Tennessee, running 100 mpw, over 14 runs, with one day off per month. Zero intensity....just logging maximum miles: 6-8 at lunch, 10-12 more after dinner.

In the last few weeks I've scaled back to 60-70 mpw. Even the day after a threshold run, my HR reaches stable average in less than 6 minutes. The day after my off day, its bang on 4min.

For reference: I'm 52, and pretty much a pure runner these days.

Quote:

Target HR being middle of zone 2 so 135-140 based on HRR and a resting HR of 45. (Haven’t been lab tested to know max HR)

That being said there are a multitude of things that impact HR and can cause one to deviate from their target HR.

Target zone doesn't really matter much in terms of expected response TIME. Nor do the conditions...Again for me: mid January (sub-freezing), 4:20m....Late August (Texas Summer) = 5:30m. They may affect the exact HR level that you stabilize at, but not really the time it takes to reach that level.

Anyway...we're straying pretty far off the OP topic.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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I didnt read all the posts...

I think you being 36 5'7 175 and running a 5k in 30 minutes you are far from needing to worry about all the metrics of S/B/R.

I recently stopped using heartrate for training. Way too many variables effect it. I work swing shifts so sleep is a big one for me. I will sometimes use if for "fun".

I mainly go by RPE and pace. I also have a stryd that I use sometimes.

IF I were you I would drop everything but the run for now. I'd build up to 40 miles a week with at least two 90 minute runs/ walks. Something magical happens in training after 60 minutes and slowly ends at around the 120 minute mark.

AND do wall sits....
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Re: High HR when running [xcmntgeek] [ In reply to ]
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Bad link. Fixed:

https://www.uphillathlete.com/...-deficiency-syndrome

Although...I'm not sure that describes this athlete.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Oct 16, 20 9:18
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all of your replies. I think I will continue to monitor HR but not get too obsessed with it. As many of you stated I am new to running and still consider a 15-mile week very good! I will build this up to 20/25/30 etc and I'm sure things will continue to improve hopefully.

I did a 10k race yesterday, and finished in 62 minutes which I'm really happy with. I went all out: Heart Rate was pretty much 170 for nearly an hour.


Last edited by: redrabbit: Oct 18, 20 8:22
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds great! We'll done.

Yep... Take your time. Build up to it slowly, stay healthy and injury free... And you will improve.

Keep us posted on how things go. I always like to hear about people's progress!
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Did you try measuring your pulse the old fashioned way? When you get to a zebra crossing perhaps. That is going to be close to 3 beats per second. It will be pretty obvious if the HRM is accurate or not.

What I'm getting at is I don't think those are your real HR numbers. Have you tried electrode gel or at least wet the strap before putting it on? Some types of clothes material will also create static and interfere with the readings. Try running shirtless just to test that theory out.
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Re: High HR when running [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Why don't you think those numbers are not real?
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Oct 19, 20 16:44
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in a similar situation (older 50 and heavier, 5'8" and 184 lbs). I've learned alot from this thread..... currently need to run 12 minute miles to keep my heart rate under 140...been doing zone 2 running since May.

Similar volume, 28k last week.....my goal is to keep it mostly zone 2 until 50k per week.... keeping the heart rate low is definitely easier on my body.

Thanks for starting this thread.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Here’s some work I did with an athlete. The two runs are about 4 weeks apart. If I told you what the work was to get her that change, you wouldn’t believe me.



http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
Last edited by: SnappingT: Oct 19, 20 18:33
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Re: High HR when running [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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I might. But, you'd have to tell me....
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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A structured program Involving a lot of meditation and integrated “brain training drills” tailored to endurance athletes.

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
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Re: High HR when running [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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Well, damn it...now we need to know more ; )

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: High HR when running [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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SnappingT wrote:
A structured program Involving a lot of meditation and integrated “brain training drills” tailored to endurance athletes.

Interesting. I spent a lot of time in my youth learning to control heart rate and blood pressure via biofeedback. So, no it doesn't surprise me.

So, obviously hr alone isn't a performance indicator.... But, I'm curious if this approach eventually provides improved results? In the case above hr is lower but pace is within the margin of error.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I’ve been working on it with a handful of athletes for about 5 years and I can say without a doubt it leads to performance increases/improved results.

Funny you should mention biofeedback. This all started with a company that makes a wearable EEG designed for athletes.

Tim

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
Last edited by: SnappingT: Oct 19, 20 19:05
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Re: High HR when running [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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SnappingT wrote:
A structured program Involving a lot of meditation and integrated “brain training drills” tailored to endurance athletes.

I don't believe you
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Thanks for all of your replies. I think I will continue to monitor HR but not get too obsessed with it. As many of you stated I am new to running and still consider a 15-mile week very good! I will build this up to 20/25/30 etc and I'm sure things will continue to improve hopefully.

I did a 10k race yesterday, and finished in 62 minutes which I'm really happy with. I went all out: Heart Rate was pretty much 170 for nearly an hour.

First: Tom Hampton's advice here in general about consistency and running by feel is great.

Second: I'm a little confused about your levels of exertion and I suspect that your "relaxed" running is way too fast. You ran 10:00/mile pace for a 10k race, at average HR 170 bpm. The earlier 5-mile "relaxed" training run you did was at 10:50/mile at average heart rate 169 bpm. "Relaxed"/everyday running and 10k pace should not be less than 10% apart in speed and negligibly different in heart rate! So either you left a lot on the table in the race (fine if you did, you're new to this) or your normal everyday runs are way too fast.

A few self-monitoring questions: Was that "relaxed" run conversational pace -- could you have carried on a chat while you were running? If that's hard to assess, you can also monitor pace by breathing: if you are truly running VERY easy, then you should be able to breathe just through your nose with your mouth mostly closed. How hard did your 10k pace feel -- was that at the limit of what you could do for an hour or were you holding something back? Were you breathing about once every four footfalls during the 10k or less frequently than that?

I'm an experienced runner and my everyday runs are between 30-40% slower than my 10k race pace; this is typical. I think you should try slowing down to 12-13 minute miles on your easy days and see if that helps you run more and improve your speed at a given heart rate. You'll get faster if you do this and increase your mileage and number of weekly runs. Consistency is king as Tom says, and you're not going to get to a habit of near-daily running if your normal pace is so close to 10k exertion -- not just because this is metabolically taxing but also because running daily mileage so close to race pace has a good chance of getting you injured from impact forces.
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Re: High HR when running [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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twcronin wrote:
Second: I'm a little confused about your levels of exertion and I suspect that your "relaxed" running is way too fast. You ran 10:00/mile pace for a 10k race, at average HR 170 bpm. The earlier 5-mile "relaxed" training run you did was at 10:50/mile at average heart rate 169 bpm.

I'm an experienced runner and my everyday runs are between 30-40% slower than my 10k race pace; this is typical. I think you should try slowing down to 12-13 minute miles on your easy days and see if that helps you run more and improve your speed at a given heart rate.

That's a good catch, I stuck on the 150bpm from the OP.

Like TW, I also run my easy runs about 30%-40% slower than my 10k pace. Also, from a HR point of view...that's about 20-30 bpm below 10K HR, steady state. I know I suggested ignoring HR...so, I'm being a bit contradictory. But, as TW points out your 10k race was 1-2 bpm higher than your "easy run", and only 50s slower. Both metrics point to running too fast day to day.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
SnappingT wrote:
A structured program Involving a lot of meditation and integrated “brain training drills” tailored to endurance athletes.


I don't believe you

You should.

But, perhaps you don't know SnappingT is Tim Floyd of Magnolia Masters. He's a well-known and respected coach in both Swimming and Triathlon. A number of pro-athletes work with him on a regular basis. Sometimes, his methods can be perceived as a bit unothodox...but, if he tells you he's had success with an approach, you'd be wise to pay attention and learn what you can from it.

I have direct personal experience with techniques for controlling autonomic processes through mental techniques. In the 1980's (as a teenager) I had a series of bad migraines---mostly the loss-of-vision types, but a few painful ones, as well. My parents (in consultation with a neurologist) send me to a psychologist to work on biofeedback for learning to "relax". This mostly involved being connected to a machine that made tones that corresponded to my HR and BP. It took a few months of weekly office visits and at-home practice sessions to be able to manipulate my HR/BP. But, I was eventually able to lower my resting HR by about 30bpm...I don't recall the delta-BP.

In the 4 decades since, I have NEVER had another single migraine.

So, its well documented that mental techniques can manipulate autonomic processes like HR and BP. Its not unreasonable to think that might eventually lead to improved performance for the right athlete...but, not a slam dunk either.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Why don't you think those numbers are not real?

Because pegging to about 170 is exactly what HRMs do when they misbehave. Too much of a coincidence.

It is easy to check. Get your pulse and see if it matches the HRM.
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Re: High HR when running [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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I would absolutely agree with you if this was wrist-based optical and would attribute it to cadence-locking, but are chest straps really susceptible to cadence-locking as well?
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Re: High HR when running [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
Tom_hampton wrote:
Why don't you think those numbers are not real?


Because pegging to about 170 is exactly what HRMs do when they misbehave. Too much of a coincidence.

It is easy to check. Get your pulse and see if it matches the HRM.


He also gave a chart from a separate run:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=7347582#p7347582

Looking the "race" tabular data, its not "pegged". Each interval fluctuates from the previous, and the maxes are different than the interval by a few bpm.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Oct 21, 20 11:21
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Re: High HR when running [ In reply to ]
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Hey,

Still monitoring the heart rate and sticking to easy runs as much as I can.

Today, I did:

1x 1mile
3 minute walk
1x 1 mile
3 minute walk

My average HR was 136 and my highest was 152.

Despite this I still had a negative performance score of -4. Yesterday I avoided running and did a 5 mile walk instead, just to keep moving.

Bit confusing
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Hey,

Still monitoring the heart rate and sticking to easy runs as much as I can.

Today, I did:

1x 1mile
3 minute walk
1x 1 mile
3 minute walk

My average HR was 136 and my highest was 152.

Despite this I still had a negative performance score of -4.
Yesterday I avoided running and did a 5 mile walk instead, just to keep moving.

Bit confusing

ignore that crap. Its mostly meaningless. Its of ZERO value for you.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
ignore that crap. Its mostly meaningless. Its of ZERO value for you.

Thanks Tom

Although I'm posting about it, it is more because it can be quite demoralising. Particularly as an amateur/fairly weak runner to be trotting along, feel your arm vibrate and then be told basically "You're doing shit" haha
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Tom_hampton wrote:

ignore that crap. Its mostly meaningless. Its of ZERO value for you.


Thanks Tom

Although I'm posting about it, it is more because it can be quite demoralising. Particularly as an amateur/fairly weak runner to be trotting along, feel your arm vibrate and then be told basically "You're doing shit" haha

I get it. But, I can't turn it off. All I can do is tell you to ignore it. Those metrics will have some limited value when you can run an hour straight every day. But, by then it won't matter anyway...because you'll already know.

Just get out the door every day and do something. It will eventually pay off. The slower you can run, the more often you can run, the longer you can run, the less you can take walk breaks while feeling comfortable, the better you will be. Trust the process...not the stupid watch.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Just get out the door every day and do something. It will eventually pay off. The slower you can run, the more often you can run, the longer you can run, the less you can take walk breaks while feeling comfortable, the better you will be. Trust the process...not the stupid watch.

Thanks again, that sounds like excellent advice.

Just also to say I am really enjoying running btw. I love metrics and looking at stats (why I bought the garmin + HR strap). I won't get too obsessed with it and I will just continue to enjoy being outside and exercising.

Thanks again! :-)
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