I buy my bikes like I buy my guitars, gently used.
2 year old Cervelo P2: $500
3 year old trek domane: $500
2 year old Rolf wheelset: $250

You can’t convince me a bike is worth what companies are charging unless you use it as your primary transportation to and from your job, or if you are a professional cyclist, triathlete, etc.

Here's a simple illustration I created for another thread that illustrates how a basic bike can end up at $12K as you add features.

Depends, I Think. The latest top tier models, maybe because of r&d, moulds, High end groupsets. Mid range prices are way too High. If the new bike is really better than the last one, use last years model and put a mid range groupset on it

I paid, all in, about $1200 for my ‘03 P2k with trispokes, dura ace as it is currently configured. That was buying the frame and building up from scratch with a mix of new parts and stuff from my parts bin.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I'm $4000 into a Felt IA16 with a Power meter and some other upgrades like crank, shifters, aerobars, saddle, tires.

I'll probably drop $1K on a set of race wheels before next season.

While I didn't get a smokin' great deal on the items I purchased, it's nowhere near retail price and everything is brand new.

I hate that new road and tri bikes are ridiculously expensive. Sure, everyone will say 'go used', but realistically, unless you're seriously into that as a newbie, it just makes an already high barrier to entry even higher.

I felt my bike was outrageously priced in 2009 at $2300 for a Cervelo P2c with DA, and that's downright budget compared to today.

Used Speed Concept module $1500.
New eTap Rear derailleur, blip box, clicks $750
$300 nearly new Campy aero cranks
$600 used HED PowerTap disc
$500. new HED Jet 9
$200 for Knick knacks like seat...

I pieced together my road bike for between 5 and 6 grand. Trek Madone with Campy Record EPS. I picked up alll the Campy parts individually on eBay and got some Jet 6s for $666 on a Black Friday deal.

If people can afford to walk into a shop and roll out on a $12,000 DuraAce super bike, then more power to them. I just can’t justify, to myself, that kind of expenditure. I also just can’t justify the marginal cost increase from a Chorus/Force/Untegra level bike to the top end stuff. Those tend to be trivial changes that add up to nearly twice the price.

you think skinny tire bikes are spendy? You definitely DO NOT WANT to get into mountain biking.

I dropped $5K on my mountain bike 3 years ago. It's the most I've ever spent on a single bike at once.

They are so expensive largely because high end bikes require a fair amount of R+D but they don’t sell a ton of units. Most people on top on carbon bikes are Pros or a small percentage of the market. When Trek or any other maker produces a low end bike for example a Trek Marlin. They are going to sell thousand and thousands of them. You need much smaller margins to make a profit.

A speed concept 9 series on the other hand sells hundreds. Further they have to much hours in to research to get every last % of benefit.
This is why ultegra is so much cheaper than DA with minimal penalty. It is very costly to go those last few % and they manufacture a lot less.

That said to answer the question.
2019 Cervelo P5d with Enve 7.8 wheels and a few other upgrades and despite getting crazy deals on everything, I’m still in 10K lol

Because people will pay it.
I ride an aluminum Cervelo P1 that was $1000 and is 10 years old now. I traded a $500 mountain bike for a set of carbo wheels. I still average 21+ mph (I'm in the 60 age group) in my local tris, and win my age group almost every time out. I've beaten a lot of carbon. I have no intention of upgrading anytime soon, if ever. I also have a 33 year old road bike, and 53 year old road bike, which I bought used, for donations to a local charity. I've overhauled them, and have ridden each of them to within 5 minutes, of my Cervelo, in 50 mile time trials. I wouldn't hesitate to race either one, and would only loose about 10 minutes in an IM. Big whup... when you are just another face in the middle of field of 3000. I've pretty much come to the personal conclusion, that all the modern carbon aero stuff can make a big difference to a pro going 30-40 mph... but not so much to us normal folks tootling along at 17-20 mph. But we love to have the stuff our heroes have, so if we have the money, why not? Even if it's not necessary.

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Athlinks / Strava

That chart is a bit misleading, unless its to show the cost of aftermarket upgrading from that original Tiagra spec bike.

We've got a Tiagra spec'd bike with carbon frame and mechanical disc brakes. The next model up, using the same frame but 105 and hydraulic discs, is only $350 more. The Tiagra bike also cuts costs with an FSA Omega crank, while the 105 model gets the 105 crank (along with a few other upgrades here and there). So the cost difference for a 105 up-spec isn't the $600 you show, but only about half that.

If I were to buy a Tiagra equipped bike and later upgrade to 105, then it would cost me several hundred. But if I'm choosing between 2 otherwise identical bikes except for the gruppo, then the 105 will only cost a few hundred more...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

I’ve never bought a mountain bike, but it seems investing more in a mountain bike would be worthwhile. If I’m going to ride a bike down technical terrain, the upgrades I’d be willing to pay more for seem more justifiable. That just doesn’t seem to carry over to my road bike/ tri bike views. But like I said, I’ve never ridden mountain bikes or purchased one. I could be way off base.

The prices are what the market will bear. People pay $12k for a bike happily because they think it will make them faster or whatever. If people refused to pay that much and opted for less expensive bikes the prices would come down some but I doubtful that will ever happen because some fool will always pay.

Every watch the HBO series Ballers?

I like my bikes in twos.

To the OP.


My last 2 bike purchases involved a race bike and a training bike. The last ones were Argon 18 - The E119 Tri & the 117 Tri. So much easier than swapping wheels etc.

It doesn't have to be expensive. I got into tri bikes 6 years ago. Got a Trek Hilo 1000, 1999 vintage, in 61cm with 650c wheels, for 500 Canadian pesos. Sold the Rolf wheels and got some sweet Shamal 16 spokes for next to nothing, gp 4000s and latex tubes. This bike has given me great pleasure and has gotten me first place OA by far for time/price in all of my races.

This year I treated myself to a P4. 88mm Chinese wheels, but DT swiss 240 hub in front and powertap pro hub in the rear. The thing is really clean, love it. I paid 1850 CAD for it. Hot deal.

I looked at a few higher volume, mainstream brands to develop that. The purpose was to be illustrative, rather than absolute for all brands. Some brands value-price components proportional to cost, others don't. Also, it is a bit challenging, because not all brands spec high-performance bikes down to something like Tiagra. And, many of them go below $2K. I just chose $2K as a baseline because it was easy for a typical performance bike.

The mark-up on these Chinese frames is criminal. I buy all my bikes on Aliexpress and i've found to them to be reliable, fast, and cheap.

I just bought a track frame through aliexpress, a lot of people at my track are getting them through there or ebay.

I think we're wildly overstating the "high barrier to entry" of this sport. Formula 1 drivers don't start out in an open wheel car, they start out in their dad's car at the drag strip, or mom's Miata at an autocross event, and if the passion, dedication, and skill are there, they move up.

At the beginner level, Sprints, Olympics, or even full distance races, you can participate with a $100 garage sale bike, a pair of running shoes from Dick's, and a few other odd items. If squeezing a bit more performance out of your gear winds up being a priority, you figure it out or do without...at the end of the day, it's still mostly about the engine that moves the gear than the gear itself, or damn sure should. I love this forum, and some damn brilliant people educate me daily about the marginal gains to be had in aerodynamics, position, materials, fit, etc, but it's still an athletic event, not a competition for who can spend more money to have the newest and sleekest.

Anyone who decides to "give it a tri" for the first time by buying everything from a $15k bike to a $400 tri suit has more money than sense, and way too many people I see at races with the best gear have the worst overall fitness and don't seem to have any real commitment to the sport or the lifestyle necessary to make it to the upper levels (not that I am, I'm a decent age-grouper, with no dreams of ever "going pro" myself).

I've seen plenty of people doing races, up to a full IM, on a road bike that wouldn't turn a head on a group ride, and holding their own, and swimming and running are just about the cheapest sports one can get into...a pair of shoes and a pair of shorts and a place to use them is all you need.

It's like saying you need to buy a Ferrari to experience driving a car, when a 6 cylinder Mustang is probably more than many of us are capable of hitting the limits of.

And if the passion, enthusiasm, and commitment for the sport winds up being there, you find a way...whether it's overtime at work, buying used, or making sacrifices in other areas of life...brown bagging lunch, ordering well drinks instead of top shelf, or buying coffee at McDonald's instead of Starbucks. 99% of the people who show up on race day wouldn't perform significantly better on a superbike than on a used steel road bike with 8 speed brifters, and an hour or two more saddle time every week.

Like I get what you're saying but from the average person's perspective, you're going to look like a dingus showing up at a tri with a mountain bike. No one in the tri community cares, they are happy to welcome new people (in general) but that isn't the impression this sport gives off.

No, I reiterate it is definitely a high barrier to entry.

Sure, you can get your toes wet doing one or even a few on a mtn bike or old bike. No problemo.

But the moment you want to do it 'for real?' Meaning training for a whole training period specifically for tris? You need a better bike. And entry level now is $2k in most cases for a new tri bike! That's way too high imo.

Going used you can find deals if your patient. My first tri bike was a 2012 Trek Speed Concept 9.8 and I paid $800 for it. Sold it 1 year later for $1350. I would say the most expensive part of starting the sport is the frivolous spending. I had a 2XU tri suit for less than $100, a pair of Adidas Adios which were on sale for $70 and some stuff here and there but getting into a sport for roughly $1000 is not bad and I could have definitely gone cheaper.
Lots of sports have high initial costs. Want to pick up hockey? $1000 in gear plus seasons ice time. Mountain biking is nearly as expensive. A $1000 mountain bike isn't getting you down Whistler Bike Park comfortably. Triathlon is barely more expensive than cycling, mountain biking. The difference between triathlon and other sports is its one of the only sports where you can tangibly buy performance. Better hockey gear, golf clubs, mountain bikes, road bikes aren't going to make significant difference to beginner athletes. Amateur athletes in those sports don't compete so they also don't have justification for buying countless upgrades. Triathlon, the expenses can be qualified. A set of race wheels will drop your finish time from 10:10 down to 9:59 and that makes it a lot easier to justify the costs.

As far as showing up to a triathlon with a mountain bike. I assume he's a beginner and wouldn't bat an eye. Seeing a 15hour finisher on a 5-10k triathlon bike.....that is what I call ridiculous, not the beginner on a mountain/hybrid bike.

Tri Bike- picked up a 2012 P2 (ultegra) in late 2012 on clearance for $1800 (msrp $2800), over the years Ive added a power meter, new cockpit, 808s (bought a brand new set of 2016s in late 2015 for $1800), and recently swapped all the components for 11sp ultegra. All in, currently sits at about $6000.

Road Bike- Got a 2019 R2 (105) on clearance for $1950, found a set of 404s from the mechanic at the LBS for $600. All in at $2550.

Not the highest end bikes, but I’ve been nothing but happy and I’ve beaten plenty of people riding bikes that are considered far superior.

All that said, my favorite bike is the $300 single speed that I ride on weekends when my wife and I go brewery hoping, by far the most fun bike I own.

Absolutely. Plenty of guys that are 40lbs overweight showing up at 13mph group rides on a Dogma with full Team Sky kit, but are those really the people we want to attract to the sport?

I'd much rather see a passionate teenager on a MTB, or a 30ish soccer mom fighting off the "baby weight" by committing to doing an Oly or a HIM on a low end Trek with Sora components, or a kid from the inner city who learned to wrench on a Schwinn with downtube shifters and swims in the public pool. These are, in my opinion, the people who embody the spirit of the sport...and the ones who will find a way to upgrade gear if they stick with it. Every sport has enough douchebags with deep pockets and more equipment than skill, is that really what we're short on here?

I just seached a bunch of cities on Craigslist and didn't find any 2 year old P2's for less than 2k, where do you find stuff that cheap?

Come on man - you KNOW the price of the bike usually has very little to do with the speed of the competitor with the exception of the top few competitors.

You want the most expensive bikes? Just go down to the oldest large age group, which is typically either 50-55 or 55-60, men or female. It's a function of them being in the highest earning (and thus highest disposable) income bracket, not how fast they are.

I've always felt like I've been trying to do tri on as low a budget as possible in but for sure I'm hitting that cusp of age now at M45 and upwards where I actually have disposable income for the first time in my life, and I'm also seeing the reality that with my early arthritis I will not be able to do tri deep into my lifespan, so I'm starting to eyeball that nice luxury-priced bike since I probably don't have a ton more time to use it down the road. That decision would have zero to do with my speed (or lack thereof!)

Maybe he meant he got a 2005 P2 in 2007?

Don't mean to answer for someone else, but there are plenty of older Cervelo P2s...mostly aluminum, but some carbon...in the $500-1000ish range, along with the entry level Felts, QRs, etc, in that ballpark. And the bike we love to sneer at, the Bikesdirect Motobecanes, are available brand new, fairly well spec'd, for $500-1200 or so, and are plenty good for even an amateur to snag a podium spot on, if they're willing to put the work in.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/tri_bikes.htm

And if you're just entering the sport and are held back by a light, fast, Ultegra equipped dedicated triathlon bike with reasonably aero wheels, you need a sponsor more than you need a deal on a bike.

Yes MTB is worse than Road/Tri at this point, but the whole industry has gone absolutely crazy. i'm only 41 yrs old, but started mtb in the mid 90's. i remember reading Bicycling and mountainbikeAction when magazines were still a thing. the top end bikes were $3k, maybe superbikes at 4k, but i dont remember anything more than 5K (other than beryllium bike but that was a joke). entry level race worthy bike probably around $700, with most racers on a bike from 1-2k. just look here, top end '95 bike , comments say $2100. XTR, kooka cranks, hydraulic maguras https://www.pinkbike.com/...ike-1995-gt-lts.html Certainly inflation cannot account for a 5x price hike in 25 years (hated economics, could it?) I'm pretty sure the bike industry, in the last 10 years or so, has realized that we are suckers. people will pay 10k for bike, why not try 11k? hey that worked! lets try 12k! thank God for ebay, pro's closet etc.... i have probably spent 20k on bikes over the last 20 years, but instead of 2 bikes, i have 15 in my basement, all of a quality that i would race on, whether road, tri, CX, mtb,fat, or bikepacking. to those who are financially lucky enough to spend 10k on a bike at any given moment, you are killing the rest of us! the trickle down tech effect is not happening, it's the opposite. just read a pinkbike review on a 7k bike with GX components. that's like 105 level components, which in my brain should be on a 1-2k bike right? is there anyone out there that thinks 105 level components belong on a 3-4k bike, let alone 7k? like i said, the industry has gone crazy and we (consumers) have allowed it to happen.

I think we want to attract those people to the sport, it doesn't mean they'll be riding in your group. Perhaps you didn't really mean it but that's a pretty snooty attitude.

Douchebags aside, I'll say that in the current state of affairs with how much new road / tt bike cost, we will definitely alienate the vast majority of all those 'desirable' folks you are talking about in tri.

Aside from the truly diehard ones that will literally live and die for the joy of doing triathlon (which is common on ST but rare outside it), most real trinewbies who race on a mtn bike etc, will think about taking it to the next step, see the price of an 'entry' level 105 bike purchased at a normal bike store (not online where you can't even sit on it before plunking down the cash) and say 'nope. Gonna do an obstacle course or half marathon instead.'

I'm honestly tired of all these 'just buy used' and 'Motobecane sells for $1200' so there's no real cost barrier in tri. The typical tri newbie who isn't already big into bikes, has NO INTEREST in the hassle of buying a used bike and just as terrified of wasting their money buy dropping $1200 for an online bike that they don't even know fits properly. Many of them don't even know what 105 components are (watch Lucy Charles interview when she talks about her utter cluelessness about bikes and components even during training for her 1st IM) and now we want them to know size, stack, components, AND be able judge wear and condition on the used marketplace? Seriously? I can wrench my entire bike top to bottom and the hassle of forcing me to buy used is nearly enough to make me quit triathlon if you forced me to do that for my next bike!

If we want to be elitest and only want those that are going to most passionately do tri as their main activity, then sure, the more barriers the better. To me, that's pretty dumb - we should make the sport as inclusive as possible and as fun as possible, and one way to quickly kill the joy in the sport is to realize that the upgrade path to an entry-level TT bike at your local LBS is often north of $2k nowadays.

FWIW, this is not new, these same feelings were present when I was a junior racer in the mid-90s (doing bicycle racing . . . these same issues apply). I've always felt it was the governing bodies that should do something about it.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Some of them might be scams, but I just went through 5 major cities in Texas on Craigslist and saw quite a few bikes that should be enough for most entry level athletes. Houston and Dallas in particular.

With that said, I do almost all of my own wrenching and even built my current bike, but there is almost no way I will buy new unless it is last years model and on sale. I have a new (to me) bike arriving tomorrow, but I have access to almost all of the components I am going to need for it. While some snob may wrinkle his forehead because the model number has a zero instead of a one, an alien would have a hard time differentiating the parts. I get that bike manufacturers need to make money. But come on! 7 grams lighter here, new colors there, swapped a carbon steel bolt for a stainless one, or even a titanium one, then labeling it "The New Improved Version." Or putting a fancy smancy plastic coating on a cable because your wittle thumbsy wumbsby isn't strong enough to overcome the friction of it rubbing against the cable housing when you shift the TT shifter.

Hell, if it were up to me, I would kick the derailleur with my foot until the chain got on the right gear.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Wow, really? That's a bit harsh. At least you didn't use the word 'dentist'.
Those old fat guys on Dogma's help keep the industry alive, help your LBS survive, and good for them for getting off the couch.

I particularly like it when they upgrade and I can browse through their hand-me-downs.

you can still go to the lsb and buy a nice rrb in the $1k range nowadays, for example the cannondale optimo line

I have an old Felt DA 4 I got on sale years ago for $2700 and I currently train on it. In the past year I bought a new Felt B14 (which fits and Im faster on than the DA4) for $1400.00 along with some new old stock HED jet plus 9's. A new old stock Felt Doctrine MTB for $1200 and lastly a new Felt FR road bike for a whopping $1200.
Im just as fast and happy on these as I would be on uber expensive bikes. Probably more so since Im not afraid to actually ride them and risk damaging the investment. LOL

Purchased Feb 2020:
$1,100 - 2017 Cervelo P3 Frameset (new online)
$140 - DP base and aero bars (new)
$400 - Di2 Groupset, Ultegra (used, purchased from ST)
$100 - Di2 TT shifters (Used, ST again)
$100 - Saddle (Used, ST yet again)
$495 - Power2max Power meter (new, full crankset with aero rings)
$300 - Misc (hydration setup, storage, cassette, bottom bracket, all new)
$100 - Misc tools (built it myself, had to buy a few smaller items but most I already had)

So that's like $2700 with ~20% of that being the power meter. I had wheels already. I think I could have stayed close to $2k if I really hunted out parts from Ebay and found more sales but not with the PM, that put me over. Got a quote from where I got my fit (another $300 for the fit if you want to throw that in) for $3300 for a similar frame (2018, same model) with Di2 but NO power meter, no accessories, no wheels, so I'd like to think I saved over $1500 by doing it myself and learned a ton.

WTF, who cares? Just because someone has/spends money and isn't in great shape doesn't mean they shouldn't be welcomed into the cycling or tri community. Personally, I'd rather have someone like that show up to my group ride than an elitist asshole who rides fast or the douche riding a TT bike in a group ride.

And they are easy to beat.....

The main problem with those guys is that the Dogmas are butt ugly. I can't stand the look of them.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Pretty much exactly this. This forum tends to forget what being a newbie in the tri scene is like. It's so normal here for people to drop $5k on a bike that they are disconnected from reality. The average person trying to get into tri goes into the bike shop and sees $3k entry bikes and says no thanks.

 

this really resonates with me. sometimes i feel embarassed at how expensive my chosen sport it. like im into fucking polo or something. i would normally expect the market to fill the gap, but i think there is the risk that the cost and general atmosphere prevents the market of interested newcomers from really developing.

i'd love to see more grasroots local events ban tri bikes, or race on gravel. i say this as somone who typically throws down the fastest bike split at events i do, on a fancy tt bike. but i think the sport would be more fun without this race for tech gains.

Hush your mouth, reprobate. If I were a dentist, I would definitely have a Dogma F12. I think they are so hot.

the mistake is considering entry level carbon with 105: that is a semi-professional bike. entry level is aluminum with claris, and stays around $800 level

They look like a 3 year old designed the fork and seatstays. Gross....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Well, the name already had "Dog" in it so that can't be good :)

Not to single you out specifically, but you posted a price breakdown, so I'll use it as an example.

$2700 or $3000 with your fit may seem reasonable, but you spent on 1 bike more than I took home in a month, up until very recently. I am lucky in that I have a better paying (and better all around) job now, but the idea of spending more than a month's pay on a bike is more than some people can swallow.

Not for nothing, but the median individual income in the US for 2019 was $40k a year. That's gross. Net is probably closer to $35k. So were asking more than half of the population to consider plunking down more than a month's take home pay for a "budget" built bike?

However, there is a Catch 22 here for bike manufacturers/sellers. I have never even considered buying a new bike. I've always bought used. So where's the incentive to make a budget race bike? I (and I suspect many of my financial peers) have no intentions of buying a new $1500-$2k bike, even if they existed, so why make one? $2k seems to be the entry level spot for performance and it seems to be a model that works.

You'll also need a $1k smart trainer to ride that fancy new bike when it's raining or too cold or too hot or dark or whatever.
Or you can just put your less fancy back-up bike on there full time.

Also consider that once you solve the bike issue, most races have gone up and up in price.
Sprints around here- Raleigh, NC- are $85 and they just go up from there.
Heaven help you if you actually want to race an IM event. $500-$1000 just to toe the line. Nevermind travel, hotel, etc...

Triathlon is an upper income sport.
One must have the free time to train, the equipment necessary to train, and the ability to do so.

Yes, there are those of us that make it work on less, but there is nothing budget friendly about this sport, no matter your budget.

I just looked online, and my LBS sells the Trek Domane 2 (alu frame, carbon fork, 8s components) for C$1049. You could easily race on that.

The other LBS is the Giant store, they have the Contend 3 for C$950, similar spec to the Trek. Again, someone could easily race on one of those for a while.

Those are the true entry level. They aren't truly cheap, but most people with a moderate income can figure out how to afford one.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I've honestly never understood when people talk about all the barriers to get into triathlon.
Its a tough sport! I bet there are just as many, if not more, triathletes in the world than ultrarunners. If you are looking for excuses there are a ton of barriers but local ultras get maybe 50-150 racers at best. That sport has less financial barriers than even marathon running. I am in fact surprised at how many triathletes there are in the world for how tough it is. I got addicted to triathlon pretty quickly and anytime I talk to someone about it, the barrier is NEVER financial. I don't think people outside of tri have any idea how quickly the costs add up. Its a sport that is tough mentally, physically and on time. Plus, not all cities have tri clubs. I recently moved from Vancouver BC to Jax FL and there is next to zero triathlon community compared to Van. This is a niche sport and that is going to bring smaller numbers but I think it's actually impressive.

If there is any barrier in the sport, its swimming and the only fix to that is to have more duathlons so runners/bikers can ease there way into multisport rather than them having to pick up two sports at once.

FWIW, I distinctly remember a summer spent detassling corn in high school to save and buy a Trek OCLV 5200 circa 1994/1995. That bike cost $2000 w/ first generation ultegra STI. If I look at the trek website now I see an Emonda w/ 105 around $2700. That Emonda is soooo much better than the 1995 5200. Like for like, bikes may even be cheaper now than they were in the past after adjusting for inflation.

What I do think has changed is the multiplier for the highest end bikes. Certainly no one was buying $500 pulley wheel systems back then, and there was no $5000 version of a frame that maybe only has lighter paint than the $2000 version. So anyway, bikes are expensive, but it's been that way for at least 25yrs, and probably much longer.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Agree completely.

There a many fine entry level road bikes.
My LBS, also Trek, has a Domane for $850. And you could race the snot out of it.

However, the cheapest triathlon specific bike they have is a $4200 Speed Concept.

Bit of a gap.

Seriously? You can say that swimming has a high cost barrier to entry, but then suddenly triathlon which has a swimming component doesn't? It's not like everyone swimming is setting out to be elite competitive swimmers.

I'm not saying you can't do tri on the cheap. You absolutely can. As have been done by many on these forums.

But it's a pretty high bar to entry. It's already hard enough to drag regular people, let alone fitness enthusiasts, to do a single 5k, let alone train for anything longer, but I think it's a reasonably low bar of entry. Even marathons, which you say are expensive, are definitely NOT (I've done 6, they are friggin' discount compared to triathlon!) Throw in the bike and swim costs (swim coaching, masters, and pool access) and it's absolutely a huge barrier to most.

I now love tri as much as anyone here, but cost was absolutely a scary prohibitive factor when I started. Then ONLY reason I ended up diving into it full-on was that I was already a decent AG runner, so I knew I'd be at least ok on the bike and knew how to stick with endurance sports for the long haul.

If I were a MOP or BOP runner to begin with, fuggetabout it - I definitely would not have dropped $1k on an entry level bike as well as pool access (no, I didn't have access to cheap community pools that would mesh with my work hours and location) just to do something that I might do for a season or two and call it quits.

I think he is saying swimming is the biggest barrier because its the discipline that most people are concerned with, afraid of, etc. when considering entering the sport. I talk tri to lots of newcomers and interested persons and 99% of them state that the swim is what keeps them from giving it a try.

You all keep mentioning barriers as if there aren't any to other activities or sports also.

Sure, go buy a set of Walmart golf clubs. Oh wait, it flew out of my hands now I need a couple gloves. Ooops, balls all gone in the lake....more balls. Dangit....it costs HOW MUCH to play one round per weekend?!!!! Whoa, it costs how much to be a member instead!!!!

Cars.....don't get me started on cost or time or knowledge to DIY there. Bikes are stupid simple in comparison.

Everything has a barrier to go from "hey, that looks cool.......I'll go walk around a car show, run a donut 5k, or do a super short sprint tri"..................to.........I'm going to do well in my AG of a 1/2 or full IM.

If your barrier is physical cost of equipment in your sports, the burden is on you to figure out how to be thrifty. When golf was my thing........I re-gripped and re-shafted my own clubs. I bought a "shag bag" where you hit balls into an open field and go pick them up yourself. I used some DIY golf fit video capture to work on my swing for free after buying a few cheap and really good fit/swing theory books. I didn't lose balls very often as a single digit handicap player, but I would walk the tree line and pickup balls for my shag bag and keep the ones to play with that were nice.

Same for tri. If you want a better bike than a Walmart BSO..........learn to wrench. I've seen used old P2's go for $600 on CL local to me. Fit is 90% the battle anyway. Learn to do carbon repair! It's not witchcraft. If they race F1 cars with repaired carbon.........c'mon. If I didn't eventually blow money on a ton of wheelsets my Felt DA was well well under $1k and is amazing for what it is.

I don't accept the "I'm too lazy to learn to be thrifty and wrench myself".

My 5 y/o is starting hockey this year. You think triathlon is expensive????

He'll be pretty cheap for the next few years, but if he shows any talent for it and wants to play competitive hockey, ouch..

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

That LTS, as pictured, didn't go for $2100. Just the stock LTS-1 with XT went for about $2700 back then. And how much has the price of everything gone up in the last 25 years?

Today, for $3600 you can get 160mm of suspension travel, an XT/SLX component mix with hydraulic disc brakes, and a dropper post. Adjusting for inflation, that's less than the LTS cost 25 years ago...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

I see the barrier to swimming as entirely a COST issue.

I think everyone knows that they CAN learn to swim, and likely swim well enough if they stick with it to finish MOP or higher in a typical triathlon. Just because they can't swim now doesn't mean that they can't jump into tri in the very near future.

But COST of acquiring these skills is the real limiter. You have to pay for a pool that has good enough access and hours that it works for your lifestyle, and unless you want to suck for quite awhile, pay for good coaching that ain't cheap, and for quite awhile.

Furthermore, the cost of time lost to driving back/forth to the pool is a COST issue as well. Even a 15 minute easy drive to the pool racks up lost time super fast - with 3 swims a week, you just lost 90 minutes of your life to swim-commuting. With the likely 5-6 swims a week you need to really improve, we're talking 2+hrs/wk lost right there.

I see these things predominantly as cost limiters. I strongly suspect that if people could get both legit swim coaching and pool access for either very low cost or for free (which does occur just not commonly), this so-called swim barrier wouldn't be anywhere near as big.

My first thought going into tri wasn't 'how am I going to afford a bike' - it was literally 'how am I going to afford going to the pool and not spent my entire life driving back and forth to do it since I work' followed by 'I'm going to try and do this on the cheap and forego swim lessons, but it SUCKS because I know I'd improve so much faster with a good swim coach which I can't currently afford.'

[quote burnthesheep

Same for tri. If you want a better bike than a Walmart BSO..........learn to wrench. I've seen used old P2's go for $600 on CL local to me. Fit is 90% the battle anyway. Learn to do carbon repair! It's not witchcraft. If they race F1 cars with repaired carbon.........c'mon. If I didn't eventually blow money on a ton of wheelsets my Felt DA was well well under $1k and is amazing for what it is.

I don't accept the "I'm too lazy to learn to be thrifty and wrench myself".[/quote]
I learned to wrench. It's absolutely NOT the answer for everyone, and often can be the wrong answer for particular folks.

Try wrenching when you live in a small 1-bdrm apartment or studio apartment. Yeah, tried that, done that. It sucks big time, and I didn't even have to share it with a spouse or roomate at the time.

Also, youtube is great, but with nobody to actually teach you, prepare for HOURS of your life spent fixing big mistakes you will make. For sure, if you added up the hours I learned to wrench my bike compared to my wage rate per hour, I'm almost certain I'd be looking at an uberbike in the $10k+ class, as I spent so much time on it.

The worst part for me - even though I broke down and rebuilt my TT and road bikes almost entirely, I now only use a small fraction of those skills 1-2x/yr. Which means I always forget the details of what I've done, and it takes me freaking forever to do things that would take a bike mechanic 5 minutes - I literally have to look up everything and consult all my notes again.

And don't even get me started on the newfangled uberbike stuff that has ALL custom parts that all cost an arm and a leg and require their own installation/removal tricks and don't overlap with other bike parts. I could be wrong about this, but I think it was more useful and generalizable to learn bike repair stuff way back before all this custom aero lightweight stuff came out.

I don't regret having learned the ins and outs of my bike now, but it's absolutely NOT the best answer for everyone.

500 bucks for a 2 year old P2 is a total outlier. Don't waste your time holding out for a deal like that.

You probably think Mona Lisa is ugly too. You cannot question Italian beauty. That's sacrilege.

On a serious note, my first full-on racing bike was a Pinarello Montello SLX in the late 80s. Hand-made steel perfection. It was a beauty among beauties. Because of that bike, I have a major Pinarello crush. I'm not a fan of the Bolide, but I mega love the Dogma.

Just hope he doesn't want to become a goalie lol Then the cash will start flying out the door.

We all seem to forget that 30 years ago, triathletes were doing 8-9 hour IMs on heavy steel bikes with drop bars, downtube shifters, and absolutely nothing aero about them. Tech gear, aerodynamics, wings, lycra, and $300 carbon fiber shoes weren't even on the radar.

The high cost of entry is an excuse, the same way every overweight coworker I have tells me they'd exercise, but they have "bad knees" (as if there aren't a million other ways to get into shape). If the desire is there, the rest will follow, period. You may not win a Kona slot, and you're in no danger of being on the podium if you show up with a Schwinn from Wall Mart, but it can get you through until you find better, and for a beginner, those things aren't nearly as important as finishing, participating, and trying the sport on for size.

If you've got a passion for something, you find a way, make sacrifices, and adjust the other areas of your life to fit...in any endeavor. This is no exeption. Forums like this, where many of the participants are at the higher end of the sport, probably do more to give the false impression that you need a $5,000 frame and $3,000 wheels or you're simply wasting your time.

Exactly. But not only that. The constant nitpicking, snide comments, insults, bickering, arguing, Holier-than-thou, name-calling, whining, and way more that goes on here, on what is arguably the most active triathlon forum, sure makes triathletes sound like people potential newbies probably don't want to hang out with.

If you use WD40 instead of waxing your chain, if you don't have dimples on your tires where it is most important, if you don't have tubeless Conti 5000s, if you don't know your fit numbers, if you use butyl tubes instead of latex, if you don't have a Ghibli disc rear wheel to give you negative drag in a crosswind at 37.438kph then don't even bother sullying the course with your dumb slow ass because you'll just be another obstacle for all the faster people to get around who deserve to be on the course more than you do if any of the legs aren't out and back.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

I think the vast majority have historically started in children's go-karts, not their parents cars.

I don’t know. I have a 6 year old Jamis Road bike which I paid $1100 new. I think it was well worth that price. That bike is bound to last much longer so I feel the price was worth it.

Polygon (they’re an OEM like Giant) full suspension 140/130, modern geo, dropper, nice tires, SLX. $1800

https://www.bikesonline.com/...spension-mountain-bi

Its simple, the reason is because you lot keep buying them.

Stop buying them and the price will come down.

In a million years there is not $12,000 value in a bike.

Probably the same reason that kid's hockey skates are $800 and sticks are $300.

Combination of inflation, market forces of supply and demand, and perceived value by the consumer.

In addition, I might add: we are living in an age in which the marketers have convinced us that we deserve/should have the same stuff that professionals use.

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Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

A lot of this and people feel that they need to have a name brand bike.

My primary bike is a round tubed aluminum Motobecane with Tiagra components. I shelled out $800 for it brand new 4 years ago. Its not as nice as carbon or hydroformed aluminum, its paint scheme isn't as pretty as a Trek, it started off with some crummy brakes and bar tape I upgraded for $150. Do I want a nicer bike: yes. Do I need one? No: I'm a weekend warrior dad trying to hang onto the last remaining bits of my super in shape 20's.

With all of that being said, I can see myself being in the market for a slightly used upgraded bike in the next few years (Don't tell my wife). But every time I have the itch to look at an upgraded one, I give my bike a good wash, clean the drivetrain and it looks nice and rides smooth. Then the itch calms down a bit.

this hits the nail on the head. No serious company in any business has been running a "cost+" pricing model for at least the last decade. And for sure no one will reveal their true cost.

From mid 2000a it has all been about value based pricing and misc methods to do this for B2C and B2B (take your pick from any sales training org.) Lately it has changed to "x as a Service" where you get an even higher value from each client over time. How soon before you can "lease" your favorite TT bike? (for a 3 year price that is significantly higher than the depreciation)



Andreas

If I am going to buy a road bike, I will buy one in the range of about US$150 from a supermarket.

When your standard speedo swim suit costs as much as a pair of jeans you know this to be true.

Whoa whoa whoa..........we need a trigger warning for posts like that! Lol.

:-p

It is very interesting doing the local hammer ride seeing $4k road bikes with expensive aero wheels, but about 2 months worth of road grime layered on top of layers of drip on tube o lube on the chain.

You’ve got it backwards. I encourage all triathletes—newbies and veterans alike--to do all of the above! But, all kidding aside, your point is well taken. What all triathletes need to understand is that ST (I’ll include myself here) does remotely represent the average triathlete. You should take the good info and learn to weed out the bad.

The most ignorant shit I’ve read on these boards in quite a long while

Who cares what bikes people ride, if you’re faster than them and they have a better bike, then you have other issues. Stop worrying about what everyone else has.

The future is now! That's already possible, more or less, thanks to The Pro's Closet.

That's not a bad thing. There's a reason people choose leased vs owned and used vs new. More options for consumers are better.

Indeed.

Yeah, I get some pieces here and there from questions asked by others, but quite often there are conflicting answers, and threads turn into 2-4 peeps arguing about what is best, leaving the OP out of the conversation. But Hey! This is free information, so I really can't complain.


That's why I always get off on the left side of my bike ;) I'm pretty good at triggering people though. Just for laughs I'd bring along the pocket sized bottle and after a ride bust out a rag and offer to give that dirty chain few good squirts just to make those dudes lose their minds lol

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

I have a hard time believing the justifications for the high-end price elevation that’s occurred over that last few years. Brands and retailers can talk about aerospace-grade materials, R&D, etc until they’re blue in the face but it still won’t square.

You can buy a brand new motorcycle for $6,000 -$15,000 and those products use expensive materials (magnesium, carbon, etc); have sophisticated electronics; involve design/mould iterations; must meet far more stringent safety standards and require far more human and robotic production steps than a bicycle. They’re also subject to same supply chain cost increases, freight from Asia, exchange rate fluctuations, etc.

I’d say the price increase is a combination of what the market has demonstrated it’s willing to pay and universal price-jacking across the category. In consumer goods we’ve seen this sudden leaps in price across brands in other categories over the last decade or so (eg. Down parkas, mobile phones, dress shoes, etc.).

Personally I won’t buy new anymore. Lots of good resale inventory. In my city there are over 2,300 used road bikes listed for sale today...

If prices are too high, why is it near impossible to find a new high-end bike in stock right now?

Price is the intersection of supply and demand. I think the motorcycle comparison misses this.

if this were true, then bike industry companies would be known for very high operating margins and soaring stock prices. They aren’t. It is a niche market, and manufacturers are spreading very high design and manufacturing costs over a small number of unit sales.

BLACKACK! you get paid 2 to 1 (yours is post 21)

I agree. If someone wants to do tri's then they'll figure out a way to do it. Otherwise it's just excuses. My daughters running coach thought that he'd get into tri's just after he got out of college, but quit after doing wildflower LC 'cause I got passed by all these guys on $10,000 bikes. The sport is too expensive.

Starting when I was a junior in HS (when dinosaurs still roamed the earth) I wanted to race motocross. Dad said "you can have anything you want - as long as you pay for it" which basically translated to "get to work." I wanted it bad enough, so that's what I did. When I first started racing (and not winning) I deluded myself into believing the fast guys always had the expensive go fast stuff. That is, until I saw the kid who's brother helped him get a bone stock bike, blow everyone into the weeds - he ended up being a 2x World champ. He had the talent, drive/passion. A priceless lesson I got to learn before I hit my twenties. Same holds true for triathlon.

Heck my last motorcycle (road bike) costs about the same as a tri super bike and could go over 180mph!

Enjoy the journey

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________