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What's something the sport needs?
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Whats something triathlon needs??

Supplement, Nutrition, Gear, More coaches, Another Taren, etc....
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.

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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.

I second that.

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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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Some races would be a start...
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [MortenFalk] [ In reply to ]
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MortenFalk wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.

I second that.

I third that. I hate to say it but a sprint distance series would probably be way more popular though. (like 5k road races)

I did a loosely run sprint series here is west Michigan a few years ago and it was quite popular. I enjoyed the races more than i thought I would and recovery was a breeze!
I say loosely run because the organizer used existing races for points and gave out prizes at the end of the season for all the age groups and overall. This series increased participation at the races so the race directors liked the series and most offered discounts to their races.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
Some races would be a start...

Exactly. I think the future of tri and mass participation sports in general will be very, very different.


Pete Githens
Reading, PA
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.

Absolutely

More people like Peter Ackermann and Dianna Ineman who organise Triverest and Helveticman.
Clubs who organise "non competitive" informal Sprint, OD and 70.3 races. I helped to organise a Sprint and OD earlier this season and it was massive fun. Now organising a OD / 70.3 / whatever you want to do distance
Local races where you can arrive in the morning, finish in the early afternoon, rather than huge races that take 4 or 5 days travelling, registering, racing and travelling home
Races that are physically and mentally challenging (hopefully with beautiful scenery). I am enjoying not having the pressure to KQ or to do a sub xx:xx Ironman time
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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ironmuffin wrote:
Whats something triathlon needs??

Supplement, Nutrition, Gear, More coaches, Another Taren, etc....

if anything, i think it needs less of the above. making tri less intimidating to newcomers would help.

i can't really think of a specific piece of kit that doesn't exist that should, but i can think of about $100 000 worth of 'upgrades' i'd need to do to get to my best, these days. add up carbon-plate shoes, a modern watch, a top-end tri bike, some recovery tech, and endless pool . . . well, there you go. who knows - maybe someday we'll have some AI that will be able to tailor the perfect individual training program for us. or nanotech that will immediately give us a HUD with real-time hydration and glucose and lactate data and stuff. much beyond that, i wonder what kind of 'modification' options will be available in the future. i'm thinking about getting laser surgery to fix my eyes. in 20 years, can i get gene therapy to 'fix' my mitochondria?

i think more frequent, local, low-stakes races are a great idea. when i was a kid the local running club put on running races in the park, last sunday of the month. different distances, popsicle-stick timing, maybe a dollar or two to enter. winner got a box of powerbars or something. simiarly, when i was in grad school there was a spring and fall cross-country series on wednesday nights. it was awesome! literally had olympians and first-timers sharing the course. run slow or fast, 2$ each and extra if you wanted a t-shirt. i loved that.

i wish more races could recapture the sense of adventure. that's what drew me to tri in the first place, and it's harder to find lately.

finally, and this might be hard in the midst of COVID, but i liked when races were social. when post-race parties were actual parties.

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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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I would love a lap race, (sort of sprint distance) 300m swim, 8k'ish bike, 3k'ish run, each loop. Done 3 times. On bike share bikes, bring your own helmet and goggles. sim suits, shorty wetsuits allowed.

Draw lots for which you start first (swim bike or run). By starting all three at the same time, it would be a over and done in a really short time and the venue would be small, cheap. Timing chips take care of everything.

:0)
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.

YES! The obsession with IM is really frusterating for athletes like myself that have no interest in long course. I wish there was a strong draft legal scene (the old bike racer in me would love this)
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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+100%
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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It's a broad statement but...

The sport needs fewer barriers to participation. A welcoming atmosphere (some races do this well already), equipment readily available for people to participate that don't have it, etc.

Generally if you're on this forum, you're at the pointy end of the participation spectrum. We would develop the sport well if we focus on the other end of the spectrum and find ways to enable anyone to participate, at their own level.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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mdtrihard wrote:
MortenFalk wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.


I second that.


I third that. I hate to say it but a sprint distance series would probably be way more popular though. (like 5k road races)

I did a loosely run sprint series here is west Michigan a few years ago and it was quite popular. I enjoyed the races more than i thought I would and recovery was a breeze!
I say loosely run because the organizer used existing races for points and gave out prizes at the end of the season for all the age groups and overall. This series increased participation at the races so the race directors liked the series and most offered discounts to their races.
An Oly series would be great, but our local (West TX/NM) sprint series (with a couple of Oly's included) is a lot of fun too. Unfortunately, it was wiped out by COVID-19 this year. Here's hoping the races and the series survives and we can get back to racing next year (or at some point in the future).

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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to echo the folks above, more sprint/Oly promotion. people automatically associate triathlon with IM which can be really intimidating to newbies.


i think that better outreach would be good. give your old beater road bike to a kid in an underpriveleged neighborhood rather than hoarding it in the basement. have swim lessons for kids. get kids involved in it earlier and make sure that it is accessible and doesn't just become like hockey in the US where it's all wealthy white kids whose parents can buy the gear..
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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Durhamskier wrote:
It's a broad statement but...

The sport needs fewer barriers to participation. A welcoming atmosphere (some races do this well already), equipment readily available for people to participate that don't have it, etc.

Generally if you're on this forum, you're at the pointy end of the participation spectrum. We would develop the sport well if we focus on the other end of the spectrum and find ways to enable anyone to participate, at their own level.

The lowest barriers to entry is the type of event that I am just running

1. No entry fee
2. Non competitive
3. Choose whether you swim 500m or 1900m
4. Choose whether you ride 90km, or 40km or 20km (for my wife who has just learned to ride a bike at the age of 50 having never sat one before)
5. Choose whether you run 5km, 10.5km or 21km

No closed roads, obey traffic regulations. Its just a social swim, a club ride and a club run

We will have around 20 - 30 people turining up, all will have fun.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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How about more events on Saturdays?

I'm not sure how Sundays became the day of races (bike, runs, tris, etc.), but personally because of religious reasons, Is Sunday popular because of less traffic? The first thing I do when searching for events (any type) is see what's on Saturday.

I was the race director for a 5k for 12 years. We always held it on Saturday and for the last five years we had more than 2,000 participants.

Since Saturdays are often "long" days (whether biking, running or brick bike/run), people are already setting aside plenty of time for an event.

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [mattsurf] [ In reply to ]
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mattsurf wrote:
The lowest barriers to entry is the type of event that I am just running

1. No entry fee
2. Non competitive
3. Choose whether you swim 500m or 1900m
4. Choose whether you ride 90km, or 40km or 20km (for my wife who has just learned to ride a bike at the age of 50 having never sat one before)
5. Choose whether you run 5km, 10.5km or 21km

No closed roads, obey traffic regulations. Its just a social swim, a club ride and a club run

We will have around 20 - 30 people turining up, all will have fun.

This is *exactly* what the sport needs, IMHO.

We don't need another piece of tech that offers marginal gains. Or another podcast that appeals to tri devotees, no matter who the host is or how entertaining. The sport as a whole needs more participants, which requires fewer barriers to entry. Make it less intimidating. Provide equipment if needed. Participation options that make it so that everyone can finish.

What you're organizing sounds like what tri needs. Chapeau!
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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Time to reset the local /regional triathlon races.
The bubble has burst on the 70.3 &IM branded races, this is a opportunity to create a race system that is not too focused on IM full distance.
I have been doing triathlon for 20+ years and never attempted a half until I did about 10 years of sprint & oly .
It makes sense in crafting your skills and keeps people in the industry longer.
Too many people in recent years have started out right into the long distance maybe for a year then drop out, feeding the IM Corp, nothing wrong with the IM Corp they offer a service .
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.

fourth, and get rid of tri bikes. That will be more entry friendly, as the road bike is most popular type of bike people have.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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I like the discussion on a bottom up approach of increasing participation via grassroots methods. I’ll add a top down idea: start with improved broadcast coverage to increase viewership of pro races.

Perhaps super league already does this (I’ll admit I don’t really watch it), but there is so much athlete data that can be displayed during the race to draw people in and make it more interesting. The way the Tour de France displays time gaps and hypes up breakaways, or how Formula 1 has a heads up display with gear, speed, G-force, etc.

I think about the America’s Cup, which on its surface is a bunch of guys/gals in a boat turning cranks. But this coverage is beautiful, with huge overhead shots and digital overlays making it feel like a video game:



So that’s what I think. Make the events more exciting/accessible to watch>more people watching>more ad revenue>more appealing pro status>larger feeder systems (school and club participation)>more participation overall. Make it a cultural thing.

I see parallels with the early days of the NFL and MLB; journeyman pros riding buses around the country and making less than they would at a desk job. As the big 3 in the US (football, baseball, basketball) decline in participation, perhaps swim bike run can move in.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
fourth, get rid of tri bikes. That will be more entry friendly, as the road bike is most popular type of bike people have.

Fifth, get rid of the swim. Lots of people can't swim that well.
Sixth, get rid of the run. Many folk don't like it.

Wait...
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [vonagut] [ In reply to ]
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As a bike person who tries duathlon: making the swim more accessible to the general public even outside of triathlon. Just general fitness wise.

The pool, IMO, is the single biggest barrier to participation. Adding in the non-pool swims of these events really kills it for a lot of people.

It is a part if tri being tri and not “du”, but I am a fan of pool swims and shorter swim legs altogether.

Almost anyone can run or ride a Huffy out their front door. Or do so in a gym. Pool not so much. Cost and availability to build swim fitness is my vote.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.

fourth, and get rid of tri bikes. That will be more entry friendly, as the road bike is most popular type of bike people have.

Last I checked a tri bike wasn’t required...so not sure how “getting rid of tri bikes” will make sport more entry friendly?
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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What the sport needs

  • When racing DOES return - more rivalries at the pro level, all distances.
  • More big name big money sponsors for big races at all distances.
  • More big name triathletes interacting on ST. Of all nations.
  • More informal engagement from our various sanctioning bodies (Triathlon Canada, USA Triathlon) on places like ST and other places I don't know about.
  • A website called Slowtwitch PRO (or maybe just a tab on the main website) that accomplishes what I wrote above. Maybe there is something like this out there. I know the PTO is doing some good work in this area.
  • A more regional version of ST that has ink space to dedicate to the local scene.
  • Loosening the requirements for a pro to race at Kona.
  • More people willing to spend more bucks on more expensive local races to create more financial incentives for race directors of the future.
  • More racers turned volunteers at races to make it easier for race directors to put on events.
  • More duathlons. NO, make that more people who want to do duathlons.
  • More athletes that OK with non-standard s/b/r segments to honour the local geography.
  • More time for all of us to accomplish some of this stuff.

Finally, just some other thoughts. Even though I am a Canadian, I use ST as my main place to go to for a sense of triathlon community. The cumulative number of Slowtwitchers is massive. There is also a high degree of likemindedness which, of course is a double-edged sword. Commonality of values is great for community-building. But the resultant groupthink can be elitist and exclusionary. What is "the burden" of ST or FOR ST in the future.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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ironmuffin wrote:
Whats something triathlon needs??

Supplement, Nutrition, Gear, More coaches, Another Taren, etc....

Supplements, well the bodybuilding supp store has everything there. Most tri specific supps have a significantly smaller market and taste nasty. (I've started throwing out the sample I get)

Nutrition, the current gels on the market do it for me. But then you have the weirdos that eat potatoes or saran wrap banana bread to their top tube. Wouldn't mind a Gatorade Endurance ZERO since I tend to push towards gels for carbs.

On Taren, he's continued to be a snake oil salesmen. If anything Triathlon needs less of them. There's tons of snake oil salesmen trying to hawk their products to triathletes...and even pro triathletes as ambassadors for literal snake oil companies.

PHX has a decent Sprint and Olympic scene, I wish it had more Olympic distance races, maybe we have enough, idk. But I do think it could be better. There's clearly a few cities in the area that support the sport well and permits continue to be approved. I feel like the East side of the Maricopa Basin is losing sprints though.

On Clubs, under the previous way USAT classified clubs there were a few clubs here that had no membership dues. Tri Scottsdale, the largest club in Arizona didn't have a membership dues structure. I know that you can still participate in training sessions without being a "paid member" still though which is great.

I think one of the largest barriers to entry in the sport isn't the bike itself, I rode my first two tris on a borrowed mountain bike, I know people who decided to do tris on rentals here. They did all their "cycling" on spin bikes at the gym. One of the largest barriers out there is swimming. The amount of adults of all races that never learned to swim as kids is rather high, I think it's even higher than it used to be. Interestingly, where I went to college we had to take a semester long swim class for Phys Ed Requirements. And then there's people that did learn how to swim but haven't in years. I never swam competitively ever, but I did do swim lessons when I was a small child at the community pool. I would say that I only did laps for exercise...wow this dates me: 3rd grade I had this idea to swim in the pool in our complex. Then summer of my senior year in college for some reason, and then when I started Triathlon at 26. Then you have un-ass yourself and get to the pool, for me that's pretty easy because it's a 15 minute drive, but for most it's more than that. Then add that most city pools out there actually aren't open during the year for lap swimming.

The biggest hindrance to this sport's growth is folks motivation to train for it, specifically with the pool.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
As a bike person who tries duathlon: making the swim more accessible to the general public even outside of triathlon. Just general fitness wise.

The pool, IMO, is the single biggest barrier to participation. Adding in the non-pool swims of these events really kills it for a lot of people.

It is a part if tri being tri and not “du”, but I am a fan of pool swims and shorter swim legs altogether.

Almost anyone can run or ride a Huffy out their front door. Or do so in a gym. Pool not so much. Cost and availability to build swim fitness is my vote.

I think it’s close between the cost and lack of access to a pool.

But I think pool/swim access is what gets overlooked. Many people don’t have pools close to their homes. Or they’re behind $100/month gym memberships.

It’s also easy to go for a run or ride from your front door. But pool can easily be a 1.5 hour endeavor factoring in travel, etc.

Honestly until access to pools where you can swim laps becomes more widespread increasing participation will be difficult.

It’s the single biggest reason I hear among my social circles of why people don’t do tri.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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More races that are dedicated duathlons would be awesome for getting folks into multisport. For all the talk about the cost of gear and bikes, swimming is probably the #1 factor which steers people away from racing. Not only is it difficult to learn, it's nerve wracking and dangerous even for seasoned triathletes. And let's be honest, there are exceptions but swimming is #3 on the list of sports for many triathletes (the majority are happy when swims are cancelled). You could also put duathlons on anywhere for lower cost without the need for a body of water.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [mikeridesbikes] [ In reply to ]
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I’d love to see duathlons make a comeback! Several tried in our area, during the triathlon heyday of the 80’s, but for some reason, they just didn’t stick. And they were big stand alone races, and not just a tack-on to an existing tri. Sort of like inline roller skate racing... remember when that was a thing? It was a great sport, but just didn’t stick. Even way back then, I thought that throwing out the swim, and adding inline skate, to triathlon, would make a great, very accessible event.

Athlinks / Strava
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [mikeridesbikes] [ In reply to ]
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Every independent triathlon here has a duathlon category and I'd say duathlethes or triathletes that don't want to swim that day seem to be rare. Usually less than a handful.

_____________

Someone talked about sponsors. Big time sponsors don't sign on to be a sponsor out of altruism, they do it for activation. So you're not gonna get someone huge unless you build critical mass to your event. Heck that may not even happen with a local sponsor. I bring up the sponsor thing because a triathlete signed a deal with a major active-wear company. Flora Duffy is now a Global Ambassador for Lululemon Atletica as of this month.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Last edited by: TheStroBro: Sep 7, 20 13:52
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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mdtrihard wrote:
MortenFalk wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.


I second that.


I third that. I hate to say it but a sprint distance series would probably be way more popular though. (like 5k road races)

I did a loosely run sprint series here is west Michigan a few years ago and it was quite popular. I enjoyed the races more than i thought I would and recovery was a breeze!
I say loosely run because the organizer used existing races for points and gave out prizes at the end of the season for all the age groups and overall. This series increased participation at the races so the race directors liked the series and most offered discounts to their races.

Agreed. Would love to see a sprint series. Would be great to have it be a standardized distance like the 70.3's and 140.6's. Having all the races be the same distance would help people understand if they're getting faster or if they beat their friend from college. The more social comparison is possible, and the more easily a person can see their own improvement, the more likely they are to get hooked. Would be great for growth of the sport.

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Re: What's something the sport needs? [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]
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I will third (?) the pool aspect that probably keeps a lot of people out. Also adding in the need for more duathlons too. I am very lucky that I have a pool that is like 15 minutes from me that I used to swim at before work/during lunch break but now with baby #2 on the way it is just not feasible to add an extra 45 minutes to a workout of just travel so I am planning to focus more on running but would love some good duathlons I could do since I still like riding my bike. (I also haven't swam since February either way since was planning on run year but that got wiped out).

Like many have said it is super easy to pick up a Divy bike or other ride share bike and go for a run ride around the area but cannot really do that with a pool. The Chicago Triathlon has a Divy bike category that I might try out sometime. Seems kind of fun, and crazy at the same time.

Hopefully the one thing that comes out of this wild time is more focus on local races which would hopefully add in more sprint/oly races because, again with the fatherhood thing, I cannot seem myself wanting to train enough to be competitive at 70.3 but could put in enough swim time to fake a swim then ride hard and run hard in a sprint/oly.

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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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Durhamskier wrote:
It's a broad statement but...

The sport needs fewer barriers to participation. A welcoming atmosphere (some races do this well already), equipment readily available for people to participate that don't have it, etc.

Generally if you're on this forum, you're at the pointy end of the participation spectrum. We would develop the sport well if we focus on the other end of the spectrum and find ways to enable anyone to participate, at their own level.

Fewer barriers??
Swim googles 10:00$
Bike 50-100
Helmet 10-20
Shoes 20
It doesn’t really cost that much to get into triathlon. Triathlon can be hard. I think the turn off is the swimming. If you didn’t grow up swimming it can be hard to learn to swim. It takes time and a lot of hard work and people these days don’t want to work for anything.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Dean T] [ In reply to ]
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Not only roller skating or inline skating, then other kinds of bikes should be allowed too, unicycles, recumbents, tandems. People would be showing up with pogo sticks, Wile E. Coyote spring shoes.

The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Slug] [ In reply to ]
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Slug wrote:
Not only roller skating or inline skating, then other kinds of bikes should be allowed too, unicycles, recumbents, tandems. People would be showing up with pogo sticks, Wile E. Coyote spring shoes.

Hey don't be picking on Wiley Coyote with his spring shoes or the sub 2 concocted event. ST may explode. Just add in Covid19, Lance, Tubulars, Disc Brakes, and 6.5W per kilo FTP to the story and it covers the last 17 years around here


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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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A focus on pathways to our sport, including what is the place of kids and teenagers in our sport.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Slug wrote:
Not only roller skating or inline skating, then other kinds of bikes should be allowed too, unicycles, recumbents, tandems. People would be showing up with pogo sticks, Wile E. Coyote spring shoes.


Hey don't be picking on Wiley Coyote with his spring shoes or the sub 2 concocted event. ST may explode. Just add in Covid19, Lance, Tubulars, Disc Brakes, and 6.5W per kilo FTP to the story and it covers the last 17 years around here

Can't wait to see Jumping Stilts and Kangaroos Shoes in the run leg. I doubt they will be setting any records. Oh, I almost forgot. In line with "Everyone gets a trophy" mentality just think of all of the new categories possible. Personally, I think the "Flippers and snorkel in a wetsuit/inline skate/recumbent" category is going to be chock full of competitors.
I do propose to keep letting the pros go first so they can get away from all that mess but hey, at least the emergency services and cameramen will have their hands full for some post race highlight chuckles.

The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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To attract more participants, you need:
Much less emphasis in magazines/websites/news on Ironman, Ironman and more Ironman and Kona Kona Kona as triathlon is much more then that
Much less emphasis on pros and elite AGs as there are few of them, compared to ordinary AGs and much more about ordinary people who have full time jobs, families etc yet somehow find time to train
Much less emphasis on high end bikes that few people can afford, even fewer need and more about bikes that average person can afford
Much less about PRs, qualifying, crashing the competition, course records and more about enjoying the training,race, company of others
Much less about fancy, expensive equipment that you absolutely need to have if you want to belong, win, set a record, be accepted and show that you can train and finish without all of that.
The fancy/expensive stuff can come later, but it is not needed immediately.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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To break away from the obsession with Ironman, both the brand and distances.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Joss1965] [ In reply to ]
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Joss1965 wrote:
To break away from the obsession with Ironman, both the brand and distances.

..

X2 What that ^^^ person said..
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [danstu4] [ In reply to ]
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danstu4 wrote:
Fewer barriers??
Swim googles 10:00$
Bike 50-100
Helmet 10-20
Shoes 20
It doesn’t really cost that much to get into triathlon. Triathlon can be hard. I think the turn off is the swimming. If you didn’t grow up swimming it can be hard to learn to swim. It takes time and a lot of hard work and people these days don’t want to work for anything.

You're approaching the issue with your own perspective. Try it from someone who doesn't know anything about bikes. Or shoes. The choices can be overwhelming. What's a good deal? What marketing hype do I believe when it comes to shoes? Having stuff available for people to take out the initial cost and challenge of getting kitted up would help.

But even that doesn't account for the intimidation factor of going to races for people that have never done it, either. To me, that's a bigger barrier anyways. Everyone has an old bike kicking around in their garage. Everyone probably owns a pair of running shoes. Taking the first leap into a race is a step too far for a lot of people. A welcoming environment, at a low-key event is a great start.

I'm leaving your comment about people's work ethic aside. I don't generalize the entire population that way.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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ironmuffin wrote:
Whats something triathlon needs??

Supplement, Nutrition, Gear, More coaches, Another Taren, etc....

A fan base beyond the participants

USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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Longer swims and more duathlon. Back when I lifeguarded a few 70.3 races, I was astonished at how many athletes were stopping at my kayak on the first turn buoy. I was also surprised to find out that hanging on boats is legal. The rest of the race, you aren't allowed to use outside assistance, but I guess since everyone in the states is sue-happy, they're afraid of liability even though everyone has required race-day insurance.

I think making the swims longer, harder (no hanging on boats), but having duathlon accessible for people who are afraid or weak swimmers would be ideal. I hear so much moaning from triathletes that we swim with on Saturday open water workouts that they don't enjoy swimming, and don't train it enough to make it enjoyable, and are barely safe offshore.

"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]
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blueapplepaste wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:
As a bike person who tries duathlon: making the swim more accessible to the general public even outside of triathlon. Just general fitness wise.

The pool, IMO, is the single biggest barrier to participation. Adding in the non-pool swims of these events really kills it for a lot of people.

It is a part if tri being tri and not “du”, but I am a fan of pool swims and shorter swim legs altogether.

Almost anyone can run or ride a Huffy out their front door. Or do so in a gym. Pool not so much. Cost and availability to build swim fitness is my vote.


I think it’s close between the cost and lack of access to a pool.

But I think pool/swim access is what gets overlooked. Many people don’t have pools close to their homes. Or they’re behind $100/month gym memberships.

It’s also easy to go for a run or ride from your front door. But pool can easily be a 1.5 hour endeavor factoring in travel, etc.

Honestly until access to pools where you can swim laps becomes more widespread increasing participation will be difficult.

It’s the single biggest reason I hear among my social circles of why people don’t do tri.

LA Fitness memberships are like $25/month. Race entry fees for name brand races are in excess of $600 these days. Bikes are $1000+. 2-6 pairs of running shoes at $100+ ish. This is why I aruge for more duathlon. Don't make the swims shorter, then people who swim once a week in the neighborhood pool will think it's safe to OWS with a few hundred other athletes. How many times have you heard "the swim is only a few hundred meters, no big deal" and then they DNF on the swim.

"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]
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A friendlier attitude from Triathletes. We eat our own by acting like elitist pricks. Even ST is full of poopy attitudes. Look at how we treat others, ie Taren, LSanders, Tim O, Iron Cowboy, etc

Its one of the reasons I call myself a hybrid athlete because I refuse to be associated with the Tri/Roadie elitist prigs.

Someone said we need Pro's on ST but why would they waste their time? I sometimes wonder why I'm on here with the way we all treat each other. Better toe the line or the know it alls will put you in your place. Id rather crossfit.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ScoutMac187] [ In reply to ]
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ScoutMac187 wrote:

A friendlier attitude from Triathletes. We eat our own by acting like elitist pricks. Even ST is full of poopy attitudes. Look at how we treat others, ie Taren, LSanders, Tim O, Iron Cowboy, etc

Its one of the reasons I call myself a hybrid athlete because I refuse to be associated with the Tri/Roadie elitist prigs.

Someone said we need Pro's on ST but why would they waste their time? I sometimes wonder why I'm on here with the way we all treat each other. Better toe the line or the know it alls will put you in your place. Id rather crossfit.

On the contrary, at least my local race scene, "elitist pricks" with "poopy attitudes" couldn't be further from the truth. I don't think ST is representative of the larger tri community. At least not in my experience.

Though I guess that can be very much YMMV.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]
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blueapplepaste wrote:
ScoutMac187 wrote:

A friendlier attitude from Triathletes. We eat our own by acting like elitist pricks. Even ST is full of poopy attitudes. Look at how we treat others, ie Taren, LSanders, Tim O, Iron Cowboy, etc

Its one of the reasons I call myself a hybrid athlete because I refuse to be associated with the Tri/Roadie elitist prigs.

Someone said we need Pro's on ST but why would they waste their time? I sometimes wonder why I'm on here with the way we all treat each other. Better toe the line or the know it alls will put you in your place. Id rather crossfit.


On the contrary, at least my local race scene, "elitist pricks" with "poopy attitudes" couldn't be further from the truth. I don't think ST is representative of the larger tri community. At least not in my experience.

Though I guess that can be very much YMMV.

One of the main issues is that Triathlon takes so much time/is so race focused noone does TRI without the goal of racing. Training taking so much time results in little time for the social part. I went MTB with a friend a few weeks ago (on a rented bike i'm not a usual). There is so much more community to it, ofcourse it is esier as everyone are using the same tracks. Then you finish and meet up for food/beer/icecream etc.
In triathlon you go for a 3-4h bike ride then have to hurry home to the kids etc. and be ready for a evening run too. Much can be done, but Tri will ALWAYS be a niche sport! Having to juggle 3 sports at once just dictates it!
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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[quote lassekk
One of the main issues is that Triathlon takes so much time/is so race focused noone does TRI without the goal of racing. Training taking so much time results in little time for the social part.[/quote]

.
I am sorry but this is just not true across the sport worldwide.The vast majority of triathletes are in it for the fun with "serious athletes" making up the minority.It is mainly in amongst that minority that the assholes seem to dwell,specifically males who are BOFOP.
Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Sep 8, 20 6:30
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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Dunno if the sport "needs" it, but Eric Lagerstrom / Paula Findlay had a pretty cool event up on their channel yesterday. Staggered start, choose your own distance, and handicapped so that everyone would finish close to the same time. Looks like they had about 10-15 people in the event. I see a lot of upsides to something like that for getting newer athletes involved, and keeping the MOP'ers interested.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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How about Swim, Bike, Golf? (or golf, bike, run if you don't like swimming)

Participants choose one club, identify their ball and play 4 holes as fast as they can.

The point is to have a different third sport. Way back in the 80's the Eppy's Great Race in CA was a canoe/kayak/raft, bike, run event. Thousands participated of all ages (even my mom). And the after party was a party!
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Pathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Pathlete wrote:
How about Swim, Bike, Golf? (or golf, bike, run if you don't like swimming)

Participants choose one club, identify their ball and play 4 holes as fast as they can.

The point is to have a different third sport. Way back in the 80's the Eppy's Great Race in CA was a canoe/kayak/raft, bike, run event. Thousands participated of all ages (even my mom). And the after party was a party!

7 iron... always the 7 iron.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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ironmuffin wrote:
Whats something triathlon needs??
...

Some self-awareness

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [danstu4] [ In reply to ]
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danstu4 wrote:
Durhamskier wrote:
It's a broad statement but...

The sport needs fewer barriers to participation. A welcoming atmosphere (some races do this well already), equipment readily available for people to participate that don't have it, etc.

Generally if you're on this forum, you're at the pointy end of the participation spectrum. We would develop the sport well if we focus on the other end of the spectrum and find ways to enable anyone to participate, at their own level.

Fewer barriers??
Swim googles 10:00$
Bike 50-100
Helmet 10-20
Shoes 20
It doesn’t really cost that much to get into triathlon. Triathlon can be hard. I think the turn off is the swimming. If you didn’t grow up swimming it can be hard to learn to swim. It takes time and a lot of hard work and people these days don’t want to work for anything.

This is pretty baloney.

You need somewhere to swim which generally means a gym membership and for a lot of people they can’t swim. They can survive in the water but that’s it.

If you rode a 50 dollar bike in a tri you’d be miserable. You’d be out there 5x longer than the next person. It wouldn’t be fun. You need a decent bike for cycling to be fun. Now that can still be under a $1k but it needs to be decent or it won’t be fun. Also you need cycling clothes too,
shitty clothes will make it not enjoyable also.

Helmet- sure that’s probably right.

Shoes- no one is running in 20 dollar shoes come on. Sure you could find some 20 dollar ones to race on once that are probably falling apart. But if you don’t want run injuries and are running a few times a week it’s not 20 bucks.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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A podcast with good content with enough of a following and backing to not rely on sport specific endemic sponsorship hosted by an independent voice that challenges prevailing or conventional wisdom.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [fat] [ In reply to ]
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This sounds interesting. Can you given an example of challenging conventional or prevailing wisdom?

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-real-starky-show
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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The pro's need to be less nicer to each other, controversies and rivalry pulls in the casuals and non fans, look at how Muhammad Ali and Floyd turned themselves into huge stars.

Ali Brownlee and Frodo need to go one step further and start Wrestling with each other the next race there in at the finish (after bad mouthing each other in the build up)

Same with the Olympics get some national rivalry going in the build ups, get the media's interest everyone watching.

Money will flood into the sport after, the sport is really bad at marketing itself its too nice.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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I think more relays or relay type races. Allows a small group of friends to get together for the race (The more social the better for the younger generations). I could probably think of maybe 2-3 people that I know that would be willing to try a triathlon and those people have either done them before or are really into fitness as a hobby. I could easily find 5 or more to do a relay. Hardest person to find would be the swimmer and the runner would be the easiest. I know a few that do the Peloton bikes and so definitely get a few of them to jump on a bike. But none of the peloton'rs would do a full tri.

I think once they get to the race and see the guys and gals doing the full thing and the race atmosphere you can hook a few into signing up for the next race on the calendar.
Quote Reply
Re: What's something the sport needs? [SwizBeats] [ In reply to ]
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SwizBeats wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.

fourth, and get rid of tri bikes. That will be more entry friendly, as the road bike is most popular type of bike people have.

Last I checked a tri bike wasn’t required...so not sure how “getting rid of tri bikes” will make sport more entry friendly?

People come do a race, see they cant hang with the unaffordable tri bike, and quit
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
The pro's need to be less nicer to each other, controversies and rivalry pulls in the casuals and non fans, look at how Muhammad Ali and Floyd turned themselves into huge stars.

Ali Brownlee and Frodo need to go one step further and start Wrestling with each other the next race there in at the finish (after bad mouthing each other in the build up)

Same with the Olympics get some national rivalry going in the build ups, get the media's interest everyone watching.

Money will flood into the sport after, the sport is really bad at marketing itself its too nice.

This. It would make pro triathlon far more entertaining. We need more rivalries.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
Ali Brownlee and Frodo ...

Better nicknames

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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Less nerds
Quote Reply
Re: What's something the sport needs? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
SwizBeats wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.


fourth, and get rid of tri bikes. That will be more entry friendly, as the road bike is most popular type of bike people have.


Last I checked a tri bike wasn’t required...so not sure how “getting rid of tri bikes” will make sport more entry friendly?


People come do a race, see they cant hang with the unaffordable tri bike, and quit

This is why I like swimming and running races.....equipment is not an excuse either way.
Quote Reply
Re: What's something the sport needs? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:

fourth, and get rid of tri bikes. That will be more entry friendly, as the road bike is most popular type of bike people have.

I'm not sure if that would have much of an impact. At the majority of races I've done in the last decade, most of the people were not on tri bikes. In many cases, MTBs and hybrids outnumbered them. In some of those races, my 2008 QR Lucero was one of the closest to being a superbike. Granted, I haven't been doing M-Dot races, most of these were local sprints and Olys. But at least at that level, I'm not seeing people being intimidated by not having "the right bike"...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [fat] [ In reply to ]
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fat wrote:
Less nerds

Cobra Kai, no mercy!

We need more finish line cheerleaders.


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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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More race formats. The Super League's sprint Enduro and Triple Mix are great, I would love to see some amateur races take on those formats. Also formats where it an equal test of swim/bike/run (so for a sprint, the fastest split in each discipline is ~20 minutes).

-----
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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proper race coverage. man it's tedious being a fan of this sport.

Feel the Speed
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [FtStri] [ In reply to ]
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FtStri wrote:
proper race coverage. man it's tedious being a fan of this sport.
.
Maybe it is because I come from an era where we had to wait weeks (or months) to read event results in magazines but I think the coverage these days is awesome. I can,and often do,spend all day watching race coverage from events past and present around the world and am able to follow pro's racing and training like never before. Yes,we all get frustrated that the Ironman coverage can be scrappy but we are spoiled rotten for all things triathlon related if we want to go out and find it.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Race coverage these days is awesome? Man there are some low expectations.

Biggest annual event at Kona and there are no splits given at the end of each leg, e.g. as the competitors are getting out the water/ out of T1, no time gaps given across most of the race between groups on the bike etc, only a couple of race cameras on motorbikes to cover the whole of the men's and women's races which pretty much just sit next to the leader and film them. Absolutely no sense of any race happening, just looks like people out exercising.

Last year we didn't even have any idea what had happened to Brownlee when he disappeared because of a puncture, or when Kienle punctured at the beginning of the bike in 2018. We had no idea if the Wurf/Kienle/Sanders bike train was making any impact on the Frodeno group last year etc etc etc. Again, there is absolutely no sense that a race is actually happening.

And these are on fixed courses. Imagine if the TDF coverage was done as they do it for Kona, would be an absolute joke.

Feel the Speed
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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Can't believe how much criticism this guy got on here for actually showing emotion at winning his first Ironman - when people on the same forum are whining about wanting more character and rivalries from the pro's.

Thought this celebration was awesome.

Feel the Speed
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [FtStri] [ In reply to ]
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FtStri wrote:
Race coverage these days is awesome? Man there are some low expectations.

Biggest annual event at Kona and there are no splits given at the end of each leg, e.g. as the competitors are getting out the water/ out of T1, no time gaps given across most of the race between groups on the bike etc, only a couple of race cameras on motorbikes to cover the whole of the men's and women's races which pretty much just sit next to the leader and film them. Absolutely no sense of any race happening, just looks like people out exercising.

Last year we didn't even have any idea what had happened to Brownlee when he disappeared because of a puncture, or when Kienle punctured at the beginning of the bike in 2018. We had no idea if the Wurf/Kienle/Sanders bike train was making any impact on the Frodeno group last year etc etc etc. Again, there is absolutely no sense that a race is actually happening.

And these are on fixed courses. Imagine if the TDF coverage was done as they do it for Kona, would be an absolute joke.

.
I see that you are madly posting on several threads at once and in your excitement have lost a little comprehension as I said that compared to years ago the coverage is great and that the coverage of Ironman races can be shabby.If, as you say, you are a fan of the sport then there is a wealth of entertainment available across all the various races as Ironman to me isn't the be all and end all of our sport.

Comparing Kona to the Tour de France is something only a triathlete would do.They are two different animals completely with Kona not even in the same ballpark...
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Terrible coverage in the past, and slightly less terrible coverage now, does not = awesome race coverage (as stated by your initial reply).

With regard to the TDF not being comparable to Kona, if you're meaning that in terms of the level of interest in the event, might want to ask yourself why those events are not comparable in that respect.

Feel the Speed
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
... not even in the same ballpark...


Vincent: It's not, it's the same ballpark.
Jules: It ain't no fucking ball park neither! Now look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but < let's just skip over that part > It ain't the same league. It ain't even the same fucking sport! Look, foot massages don't mean shit!

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
Quote Reply
Re: What's something the sport needs? [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
... not even in the same ballpark...


Vincent: It's not, it's the same ballpark.
Jules: It ain't no fucking ball park neither! Now look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but < let's just skip over that part > It ain't the same league. It ain't even the same fucking sport! Look, foot massages don't mean shit!

..

Hahaha,classic!

Jules Winnfield: I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? Oh, you were finished. Well, allow me to retort.

Dude should have been an ST'er... :-)
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [FtStri] [ In reply to ]
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FtStri wrote:
Terrible coverage in the past, and slightly less terrible coverage now, does not = awesome race coverage

Depends on how far back you go and where you were

A few pages in Sports Illustrated here in the US every July - long after Le Tour was over - might just as well be old hieroglyphics

Weekly updates on ABCs Wide World of Sports or CBSs Sports Spectacular move us into kinetoscope territory

And so on up the scale

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
Quote Reply
Re: What's something the sport needs? [fat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
fat wrote:
Less nerds

fewer nerds
Quote Reply
Re: What's something the sport needs? [FtStri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FtStri wrote:
Terrible coverage in the past, and slightly less terrible coverage now, does not = awesome race coverage (as stated by your initial reply).

With regard to the TDF not being comparable to Kona, if you're meaning that in terms of the level of interest in the event, might want to ask yourself why those events are not comparable in that respect.

..
The Super League coverage and race library is awesome.
The ITU coverage and race library is awesome
The coverage of Roth is awesome as is the Challenge Championship.
Youtube race videos are awesome.
Access to countless Pro's and training info on Youtube is awesome
Social media access across the sport is awesome
The choice of triathlon podcasts is awesome
Ironman can be a bit shabby and certainly disappointing but who cares when there is so much else to follow..Unless of course a persons whole triathlon world is M-Dot related.
Triathlon forums can have people who make the sport less enjoyable so there is that

So looking at my little list I will continue to be very happy with the state of play in the sport of triathlon. How upset you are about it is up to you.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [dand] [ In reply to ]
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dand wrote:
fat wrote:
Less nerds


fewer nerds

Nerds, Dorks, Geeks, Dweebs?



"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [FtStri] [ In reply to ]
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FtStri wrote:
Can't believe how much criticism this guy got on here for actually showing emotion at winning his first Ironman - when people on the same forum are whining about wanting more character and rivalries from the pro's.

Thought this celebration was awesome.

Yeah, my brother who does give a darn about triathlon even sent me the video of his celebration. We need more of it.
Quote Reply
Re: What's something the sport needs? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
synthetic wrote:
SwizBeats wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
A really good Oly dist. series/scene (like the old Bud Light USTS), so it's not all about 70.3/IM.


fourth, and get rid of tri bikes. That will be more entry friendly, as the road bike is most popular type of bike people have.


Last I checked a tri bike wasn’t required...so not sure how “getting rid of tri bikes” will make sport more entry friendly?


People come do a race, see they cant hang with the unaffordable tri bike, and quit


This is why I like swimming and running races.....equipment is not an excuse either way.

swim and run have their issues.

swim race: wetsuits - ok for cold race maybe

running: the Nike bouncer Fly 4% series.
Quote Reply
Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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ironmuffin wrote:
Whats something triathlon needs??

Supplement, Nutrition, Gear, More coaches, Another Taren, etc....

Lance Armstrong.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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More social media influencers or social media athletes.

Ashley Horner
iron cowboy

Whatever happened to the 'Dreams Are Pesky' / GoFundMe 'pro' triathlete?

More GoFundMe campaigns from 'fast' ag-er for : Kona, a bike, entry fees, counseling, advice?

More supplement companies, more is more.
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Re: What's something the sport needs? [ironmuffin] [ In reply to ]
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More Chrissie and Faris types!
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