Can’t imagine there won’t be a live stream. I hate that it’s a really short loop course.

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Let food be thy medicine...

That is great! I will be looking forward to watching the livestream if they have one.

This is what we've been waiting for.

At the start of year, I envisaged the showdown to happen after the Olympics. Either Berlin, Chicago or Fukuoka.

I can't wait for this, are they going to have pacers?

I have no idea if they have rabbits (not illegal rotating pacers), but you gotta assume they are paying enough guys to take them through 21.1 at 59:55 and 31.55 at 1:29:52. Maybe they pay Sir Mo Farah to be the 21.1 km guy for the ~59.50 pace !!!

Ain't a pacer in the world can take them through 3/4 at sub 2 pace.

I wonder if they can pay enough money the incentivize some guys to give that a try. How close can they get for how long?

The most important question on ST is not if they have pacers....its going to be who has what springboard cheater shoes on or not!!!

that'll be cool - both those guys are really good at sports.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I would Bet both of themselves could, taking turns like cycling and a sprint finish to get sub 2

Saw Kipchoge running in Vienna. Really looking forward to that race!

Don’t see the point with this - aside from Formula One (and partly cycling because it’s old fashioned), sports are rarely banning improvements in Technology.
It’s like banning Carbon as a produkt between all sports, not only the weight, But shapes on a bike or latex tubes or structured training

Super exiting for sure! I got a feeling The difference between the two will be decided by who has had their training in lockdown and who hasnt. History seems to play in the favour of elioud. Bekele had pretty many failed attempts before hitting 2:01:41.

As a norwegian Im just as exited to see Sondre N Moen. He really wants to best Mo Farahs European 2:05 low:) Sondre just beat The European 1hr record - running 21 134m on a track! So hes in decent shape:)

OK, how about paying Mo Farah to run 21.1 km in 59.50. Then pay Kipchoge and Bekele a bonus to work together and TTT through 31.55 a touch sub 1:30. Then given them another bonus if they are tied with 5 km to go at 1:45.45. Then its a drag race free for all to see who can run a 14:14 to close it off.

All bonuses are paid for interim splits if either of them breaks 2 hrs.

This basically gets into a prisoner's dilemma if you are feeling strong enough to hit the splits but don't think you can close off the final 5 km fast enough. Do you help pace the other guy to a sub 2, or do you stay screw it, I'm gonna race a tactical race and draft the other guy for the race win and neither of us breaks sub 2. At that point, the value of the bonuses, may have an impact, but I don't think one guy helps the other guy break sub 2, unless he himself feels he can close the sub 2.

Or just give them a Tesla pace car and green line.

I Think either of them could pace the other one to go sub 2, But I’d doubt either of the would be willing to do it for the other, money or not. The first to break 2 would Be the legend, the other “the one who might have done it”. Would take serious money and then I would still doubt the “pacer” would really have to motivation

Thus the prisoner's dilemma....I think we need the PTO guy to stop putting money behind pro triathlon and fund this "real event"....or the "Ineos guy".

It would be interesting. The only way a guy does it for the other guy is he thinks he will "the legend" vs the equivalent of Chataway or Brasher for Bannister (although these two had zero ambitions from what I gather to do it themselves as they were not in the right caliber).

So I think if they both cruise through 21.1 at 59.50 and both feel awesome, both keep working together. If one guy tucks in and refuses to pull, then he's given up hope of being the legend and is just saving himself for the win. Then the entire thing falls apart. Its almost like you need a third and fourth player in this all of whom think they can be "that guy" who takes it sub 2.

They could probaly find a few guys to run 59 on 1/2 Marathon, But the final 21, the “looking person”,would have to be payed a serious bonus to do it. And even so, the 1/2 59min guys Will probabaly need some money as Well.. and actually be in good shape

This would boil down to how good shape the two guys are in and it they are willing to work with each other a lot past the halfway and both believe he can outkick the other guy too while going sub 2....if not you just tuck in surrender sub 2 and just focus on beating the other guy.

Agree on the pacing to 2 hrs discussion, but I think its only theoretical. Im usually an optimist, but this time around my best guess is neither breaks 2:02.

Elioud wins, a couple of unknown kenyans go 2-4th, Moen/farah battle it out for like 5-6th or so (think they run 2:05/2:06). Let’s see how That prediction holds ;)

So where's Bekele? I'd agree Elioud wins but if anyone can stretch him it's Bekele which is why this is the race everyone wants to see.

I think we could see a race that never really threatens a world record and still be one of the great marathon races if those two are stride for stride in the closing stages.

It's probably all they could guarantee to be secure, especially given the hard no spectators rule

I imagine they'll run around the lake which would be a little over a mile. Anything other than the lake perimeter is going to be longer obviously. It's a lovely park, hopefully they've been able to maintain it. When I lived in London I loved running in those parks. I think it could be a good course.

There is a race in the UK that is mile laps up and down a pier. I've always thought that was an interesting setup knowing exactly where you are on a dead flat course and never being far from your drink. For me less than a mile and it starts getting too short but a mile is fine, IMHO.

Oh - sry! That bit fell out of my response - but i think Bekele DNF's :) Bekele will push pace from 21 - 30km and then drop out :) Bold prediction, but if Bekele is not in 120 % shape, I think this is a real possibility. Bekele will not dial back and finish 1-2 min behind Kipchoge, he will push until he breaks and pull out, maybe :)

OK, what if...

find a pacer who can get them to 10km, but then eases off for a bunch of laps to recover, gets lapped a few times, but then picks it up again to pace them for the last 10km. While this first pacer is taking it easier, a second pacer has picked it up to lead them for the 2nd 10km (while taking it easy and getting lapped in the first 10km)

Is that legal? If getting lapped and staying in the race is legal then they can have just about any set of pacers.

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Munq

I love that loop around the lake in St. James park for intervals (that and Green Park) when I have had layovers or biz in London. It's almost going to be like a 'track' marathon for this. Will they stay exclusively in the park or will the loop go onto the Mall to get the Buckingham Palace backdrop? Seems like you need that backdrop to one up the Brandenburg Gate backdrop where these guys set their world records.

I believe in road racing and track there is no issue with someone lapped getting back in the game! Seems like a totally legit strategy....maybe this has been the story all along to get around the pacer issue but they are not disclosing it until it happens!!!

That is false in track. A lapped runner cannot assist. This happened in 1992 Barcelona 10K on the track with collusion between Moroccans and DQed.

I Think the best Bet is to have a couple If pacers in good shape running close 1/2 WR, and keep them going under 2hr pace until they blow up and let the two help each other. The main problem being that neither of them want to help the other become the legend. Lets say bekele wins with 1:59:something, How much money Will it take to get kipchoge To agree with that? Unless he’ll actually beat the time at one point, he’ll just ve a foot note, where the other Will be the Living Legend. They’re have to decided it during the run, as to whom is to go sub 2 and the financial benefit to being the “loser” has to be much greater than the one with the honour.

ZERO PACERS

thanks.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Normal pacers are OK....the guys who go redline from the gun and then drop off the bat and jog it in. But the question was if a guy gets lapped can he get back and pace. Kny says the lapped runner in track cannot interfere with the race. As this would be under IAAF rules, I assume same thing applies on a road course. Kny, please confirm.

A true head to head race would have zero pacers. I want to see these two dudes go mano y mano by themselves. Otherwise it's dumb for me. They don't get pacers in the Olympics.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

As far as I know, anyone still in the race, are allowed to run their own pace, even un-lap themselves and eventually win. So, if someone’s lapped and Picks up the pace, wether it’s to act as a pacer or not, should Be allowed to do so, unless rulles state you’re pulled out when lapped. Then there’s going to be the discussion about being lapped, does that mean over taken?

Yes, but they get pacers in Berlin, London, New York, Tokyo....and many other world marathons besides the world marathon majors. Its part of marathon running because the fields are never really as deep as in track. With no pacers who are paid ot hold a high pace to a certain point, it would be pretty lonely in most races. The only way those pacers subvert any payday for a slower race is getting paid for an overall slower race, but a higher front end. Most of the marathoners who end up being pacers are insanely fast in their own right. Its partially why the Olympic marathon is always 'slow' (well besides being run in mid summer in the northern hemisphere). They are racing mano mano which implicitly means slower times at the marathon.

Then it's not a real head to head race for me. Those races can have their rules, but how often do you get a head to head these days in the Men's field? True races are clearly only at the Olympics for the Marathon or at Marathon trials for the countries that select via trials.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Anyone know where we can get a live stream overseas?

Bummer that Bekele is out!

https://www.bbc.com/...t/athletics/54386016

VPN mate.

Haha...I got Liege Bastogne Liege and Giro Stage 2 going on at the same time too!!!

I found this link for anyone interested:

https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/...-coverage/index.html

With Bekele out, the head to head is less compelling now but will try to get into this.

Less exciting than I had hoped. With Bekele out to start and then Kipchoge going for some jogging in 2:06 in 8th place:

https://www.runnersworld.com/...rathon-2020-results/

Probably no racing along the way really hurts the pointy end for these guys (plus mindset....or maybe many overtrained people because they are on a continuous build with no races in between to rest up for)

The more observant amongst you would have seen that one of the pacers today was none other than Sir Mo Farah.

It’s also worth noting that everyone at the front had the same footwear..... apart from Kipchoge.

Yeah I noticed the shoes. I assumed Kipchoge’s were just a personalised model.

Wow! He was -700 to win what a Buster Douglas level upset! Even the best have off days.

I would hazard that most of us were asleep. (I'll watch the replay) I think I've started to do some in depth thinking on pacers. If pros can have them, so should amateurs. In general, pacers for the pro degrades the actual race itself. But with that, interesting Kipchoge was dusted like that.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

There are pacers for amateurs.

No doubt your in depth thinking has already covered this but how are you defining a pace maker?

As mike s says one runner can set the pace for another runner, pro or amateur. What you will sometimes see called out is someone who is not actually entered in the race pace make for someone. That isn't allowed because of congestion and other things but people who are actually in the race can do it. At least partly because it would be hard to stop.

I'm specifically talking about some of these Marathon Majors that allow rotating pacers. I understand quite well that you can have a de facto pacer if the person is registered in the race. It's not actual mano y mano racing when you have a ton of pacers. The tactics completely change. It also makes for a rancid broadcast product.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Rotating like they did in the sub 2 runs? I haven't seen that outside those races or rotating like taking turns but still running the race from the beginning?

Kipchoge posted on social media that he slowed because of a "blocked ear". Not really sure what that means. Does that mean it screws with his balance so he needed to slow down or is that just like water in the ear feeling. A very weird issue.

So, that's a "thing" I suppose. https://www.healthyhearing.com/...my-ears-feel-clogged

But basically if you're probably trying to smash a marathon and you have this feeling you may have what feel like episodes of vertigo? idk that's just my googleMD thing.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

For sure! I'm assuming that it isn't just a blocked ear but more of a blocked ear that caused him to feel unbalanced, vertigo, etc. Just kind of weird that he only said blocked ear instead of how it effected him beyond that.

Second place Vincent Kipchumba used Adidas, see photo in
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/...update-20201004-1230

Hindsight as they say is 20/20 but come on.
London, October and they were surprised by bad weather.
I grew up in London (when there was still smog) and I can honestly say October was not the one of the months I looked forward to.....lol

Well even the best have crap days. I have not seen the coverage yet, but look forward to watching an elite marathon on what is effectively a track

Sara Hall has a helluva race on the women’s side.

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Let food be thy medicine...

interesting that ryan spoke out against mechanically doped shoes last year, and this race she used prototype mechanical doping shoes...

Even a mild case would be a shocker. I've had a few occasions when I've got up from the bed, got half way up, and thought, hang o.... I'm on the mattress again.

He's changed ... a lot



https://runningmagazine.ca/...bests-in-retirement/

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Rotating pacers would be against the rules in marathon majors as far as I know. Pacers have to start the race with everyone else, if they leave they can't re-enter later, and a new pacer can't enter mid-race. Using pacers like this was one of a few reasons why the sub-2 efforts weren't official marathon world records.