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Should I upgrade my wheels?
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My first post so please be kind!

I’m a female FOP AGer, mostly standard/Olympic distance, racing on a Quintana Roo PR5....but still with the original wheels it came with. Why, you may ask? I weigh about 110 lbs/50 kg and have average handling skills. I get blown around quite a bit as it is and have been afraid that with decent wheels I’ll actually become airborne. Most of the wheel advice and suggestions I’ve seen assume a much larger rider. Should I just continue on with my embarrassing training wheels or are there better wheels you would recommend I could handle? My other options seem to be improving my handling skills and gaining weight, both of which I am working on (the latter unfortunately!).
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, definitely upgrade. The new wheels will also probably be wider rims, so the tire profile will corner/handle better.

Newer aero rim designs are much more stable than the old V-shaped ones. A solid option is the HED Jet 4/6 combo (the front is always the wheel that creates handling issues).

Also take a look at the wheels that the top female pros used at Kona.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Equipment_7551.html
If they can manage these in Kona crosswinds....
(Anne won the race weighing 51kg).

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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What "training" wheels do you have ? Why do you think they're embarassing ?

Louis :-)
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Something like the Jet4, Enve 3 or a 303 or 202 on the front should be just fine. All of these wheels were designed to be fairly predictable in windy conditions.

The funny thing about wheels is that the deeper wheels show the biggest gains when it is windy, which is when people don’t like riding them. There are still decent gains to be had with an shallow aero front wheel. Decent tire are also a must and can be huge improvements. The Conti 5000s tubeless tires on something like the a Jet 4/6 combo would be a great choice.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Wheels have a relatively low bang-for-buck in speed but pretty high bang-for-buck in bling. The balance between speed and bling is up to you. I'm all for people spending money on whatever they want if they can afford it.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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I agree on bang for the buck. But isn’t the bang for wheels still pretty significant. It’s just that the buck is also big.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I suppose it can be, depending on what wheels are on the bike right now--but I guess that's always true: bucks are pretty unambiguous but bang depends on what your starting point is. Wheels are probably a better value proposition than upgrading the frame.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Solid disc wheel on the rear and a 50 to 60mm rim on the front.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Been using my training wheels to race for 3 years before upgrading to carbon wheels. Like everyone else mentioned, best bang for your bucks. :)
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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I have 2 different sets of wheels, they include OEM wheels that came with a (cheap) Cervelo, so good, but not great.
Next I added a cover the the OEM's (..I'm cheap) and finally a set of HED3's (front and back).

My fastest IM (life time best) distance time was done on the cover with the OEM front wheel. The fastest HIM time was done with a HED front and the cover on the rear. and the fastest 40K time was done on the HEDs (the 40k and 90K times were done in the same season),

When the times are broken down there was 0.5Kph difference in speed between all three.
(within my AG I had the fastest bike time in all three races)

But the HEDs look best.

Bike handling skills are always useful, to go beyond that statement is to make assumptions ....:0)
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you all - this is exactly the kind of advice I hoped to get when I posted.

To answer your questions, my current "starter" wheelset is Shimano 11 with Continental Grand Sport tires. As to why I find them embarrassing, I'm afraid they make me look like someone who threw a lot of money at a fancy bike but doesn't know what she's doing. But I don't care about the bling factor at all, so if you all tell me that my money is better spent elsewhere, I'm all ears! I know I need to continue to get more aero and to improve my handling skills. I just don't want to be throwing speed away because I haven't bothered to upgrade my wheels.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Throw on some Continental GP5000 tires with latex tubes.

That'll give you plenty of watts all by itself.

Use the silca tire pressure calculator ( google it ) to ensure optimal rolling resistance via proper tire pressure before every ride.

I never ride wheels under 65 mm unless I'm on my cross or rain bike.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Just follow your coaches advice.

And if you don't have one, then spending the money on one is where the biggest gains will be.

This post is 100% not slowtwitch approved, as the answer isn't accompanied by spurious mention of cda, tubeless and carbon weave.

Noting you are FOP for olympic courses and aren't talking about increasing your race distance then the equation is very different to the longer distance stuff you see dominating this forum.

I'm a strongish rider and actually enjoy hitting out some decent times on 'embarassing' kit. Funny, I've never felt embarassed by it, but equally I don't have any negative views of the people 3 hours behind me on $15k rigs.

If the wheels will make you happy, then go for it. But don't buy them because you feel others tell you that you should.

Oh, and the tyres / latex tubes will make a big difference to the feel of the bike and speed with absolutely no handling penalty.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Duncan!
This season was actually supposed to be my first 70.3. You know how that turned out.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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If we believe the combination of folks selling them and the folks on ST riding them............the newer tech in front wheels means they're more stable in cross winds. Somebody mentioned the "vees" of old versus the modern shapes.

I don't know if you have a nice enough buddy local to you, but you could perhaps ask around to borrow and try riding somebody's deeper front wheel on a day with a touch of wind. Like, do a training ride with them and swap fronts at some point during the ride for half an hour.

There's nothing wrong whatsoever with using the kit you have. However..........there are also a lot of folks out there who are like the old grandpa on the front porch yelling at the kids to get off his street with their fancy aero wheels and low CRR tires. Point being, I wouldn't pass up on 5, 10, 20 watts just for the sake of "being that cool guy smashing it on old kit". Sure folks could gain by a coach..........but let's address the topics separately and stay on topic for the question asked.

If you have the cash, it's your hobby or passion.........go for it.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Isabel wrote:
To answer your questions, my current "starter" wheelset is Shimano 11 with Continental Grand Sport tires.

RS11? Those wheels aren't bad at all. They have aero spokes and only 16f and 20r. The biggest downside is the narrow outer rim width of 21mm. The budget fast option would be Conti Supersonic 20mm tires and latex tubes (for racing), with a disc cover on the back.



If you want better wheels then get the Hed Jets. You can run a deep rear wheel or disc (cover) as it won't be hard to handle.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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One thing I have not seen discussed yet, how many seconds is she likely to gain on a sprint/oly with great wheels? Now take away a few seconds because she is not comfortable on those wheels. Then look at your previous races, would adding a few seconds make any difference to how you placed? You can then make a $ per second or $ per watt decision.

I spent 18 years racing on the same bike, stock, straight from the factory with cheap training wheels. I raced on it last season and had a great time. I got on the podium a few times in little local tris. At the very end of the season, I spent $9k on a bike and wheels. I was not able to discern any great effect on bike performance on the little sprint tris that I'm doing right now.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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"To answer your questions, my current "starter" wheelset is Shimano 11 with Continental Grand Sport tires."

What model number are your wheels?
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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The wheel says Shimano RS11 and RBF0699943. Does that answer your question? I bought the bike new in 2017.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Isabel wrote:
My first post so please be kind!

I’m a female FOP AGer, mostly standard/Olympic distance, racing on a Quintana Roo PR5....but still with the original wheels it came with. Why, you may ask? I weigh about 110 lbs/50 kg and have average handling skills. I get blown around quite a bit as it is and have been afraid that with decent wheels I’ll actually become airborne. Most of the wheel advice and suggestions I’ve seen assume a much larger rider. Should I just continue on with my embarrassing training wheels or are there better wheels you would recommend I could handle? My other options seem to be improving my handling skills and gaining weight, both of which I am working on (the latter unfortunately!).

It also depend on the type of terrain you ride on.... and how windy it's when you actually race.

Good modern wheels are fairly stable, but they are not perfect.

ex: I'm 160 lbs and descending with my Enve 7.8 could be terrifying if there is some cross wind. But they are perfectly fine on flat (with even more wind). If i had to do it again, i will get a set of 5.8 front / 7.8 back.

I will be surprise if you have much stability issues with a front that is <60mm.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Isabel wrote:
The wheel says Shimano RS11 and RBF0699943. Does that answer your question? I bought the bike new in 2017.


The model number of your wheels is WH-RS11.

RBF0699943 is the serial number.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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You might be surprised to discover that good, shallow depth carbon wheels actually handle better than the “training” wheels that came on your bike. Take a look at ENVE 3.4s.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Those wheels cost nearly as much at the OP's PR5
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Personally I am a little surprised that anyone who switched from stock shallow depth wheels can't tell a gain in speed/time when switching to a nice set of Zipp, FLO, HED, Enve etc. To me the gains are very measurable. Get comfortable on the new wheels, train some on both your old wheels and new wheels until you get comfortable on both, then use the fast wheels for races. I think you will be pleased.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
You might be surprised to discover that good, shallow depth carbon wheels actually handle better than the “training” wheels that came on your bike. Take a look at ENVE 3.4s.
I'd find it very difficult to justify a purchase of these or similarly expensive wheels since any performance advantage over more reasonably priced, similar depth, well designed and built wheels from another manufacturer is likely to be very small if measurable. The same money could almost certainly buy far more performance elsewhere, or you could just buy much cheaper performance wheels and save the difference.

This is especially so for anyone who has thus far been happy with RS11s and is uncertain whether they even want to invest in more elaborate wheels.
There's a vast, somewhat sensible, middle ground which offers essentially the same benefits for a lot less money. ENVE stuff is about "prestige" as much as anything IMO, and the OP wisely doesn't appear to care about that. Something like a HED Jet 4+ would be a far more sensible purchase.
Last edited by: Ai_1: Aug 6, 20 6:11
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [r-b] [ In reply to ]
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r-b wrote:
Personally I am a little surprised that anyone who switched from stock shallow depth wheels can't tell a gain in speed/time when switching to a nice set of Zipp, FLO, HED, Enve etc.

I'm in that category. I once upgraded from a Kinlin rim'd wheel to a 404 FC. The only difference I noticed was the braking sound. I really notice the differences between tubes and tires though ...
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of good advice posted above but I will add that the lighter you are as a rider the more you benefit from aero wheels.

Aero wheels provide a set watt savings at a given speed irrespective of rider weight. For the typical 70-80kg male rider this saving is actually pretty small in terms of the total wattage they are pushing out. At the highest level it remains significant but as a number of poster have mentioned its pretty marginal for a lot or people. At 50kg you will get the same watt savings from the aero wheels but you are only putting out 70% of the total power of the heavier riders so the relative savings are a lot more. In effect at 50kg you will gain a lot more from aero wheels than the average triathlete.

Its kinda of off topic but my first advice as a light athlete is run low tire pressure like really low. Start here irrespective of wheel and add a a bit for 25mm tire and a bit more still for a 23mm tire https://www.sram.com/...al-system-efficiency. At 110lbs that means no more than 60psi for a 25mm which may sound crazy but I have never had issues with pinch flats at these sorts of pressures. What this will do is give you more grip and help you from bouncing around on the road. It will improve your handling and make you faster.


In terms of wheel I would look up the Bontrager Aeolus Comp 5 and buy these or something similar off ebay. They come stock on some Trek bikes so people buy the bikes and immediately sell the wheels if they already have race wheels. They are aero enough to provide a benefit while not being deep enough to effect handling or brake the bank. You can then use an disc cover on rear and get more speed for limited additional cost.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
Those wheels cost nearly as much at the OP's PR5

Look at swissside, much better value
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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So glad I posted my question here - the comments and discussion have been fascinating and incredibly helpful. I'm psyched to know that even just upgrading the tires will make a difference and that I may well find handling easier with better/deeper wheels. Keep the suggestions coming!

My mind is blown on the suggestion of 60psi. That is... not what I have been doing.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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You better try 60psig before you race on it just to make sure things work out.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Isabel wrote:
So glad I posted my question here - the comments and discussion have been fascinating and incredibly helpful. I'm psyched to know that even just upgrading the tires will make a difference and that I may well find handling easier with better/deeper wheels. Keep the suggestions coming!


My mind is blown on the suggestion of 60psi. That is... not what I have been doing.

The optimum pressure also depends on several factors.
  • Rider weight
  • Bike weight
  • Rim width
  • Tyre type and size
  • Road surface
  • Riding style
You're light and may be fine at 60psi, but you might not, depending on the other factors, and you might not be fastest at that. I'd probably err a bit higher for starters and tweak from there. If you have narrow rims and 23mm tyres 90 psi might be about right. Wide rims and 25mm tyres and I'd be thinking more like 70psi for starters.
However, it does seem most people who haven't paid much attention to this are riding with excessive pressure. I've recently changed wheels and tyres on my road bike so I'm experimenting with pressures. I weigh around 84kg at the moment and so far 75-78psi front / 80-84psi rear seems to be the ranges I'll end up with. That's with 19mm internal rim width and 25mm Continental GP5000 tyres.

take a look at this for a general idea of where to start with pressure:
https://info.silca.cc/silca-professional-pressure-calculator
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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Don't misinterpret what people are writing.
No one mentioned that deeper wheels would make bike handling easier. It will not.
At best some rounder rim shapes will be less affected by side winds, but bike handling is a aspect that has to be assessed separately.
I'd suggest first getting a "driving evaluation", and looking with a competent coach at some technical training sessions, and include them in your training plan.
Then I suggest borrowing different deeper wheels from friends to try, or rent some models (maybe from bike shops in your area). All wheels "feel" different handling. You won't feel how YOUR bike handling will feel with X or Y wheel model, may they be very good on paper.
I don't think tire or tube change will change much on your bike handling either.
Tire pressure will for sure.

Louis :-)
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
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tomljones3 wrote:
One thing I have not seen discussed yet, how many seconds is she likely to gain on a sprint/oly with great wheels? Now take away a few seconds because she is not comfortable on those wheels. Then look at your previous races, would adding a few seconds make any difference to how you placed? You can then make a $ per second or $ per watt decision.
Going to a front 404 and wheel cover (disc) at back was about 1-2min improvement for me, at times around 1:05 to 1:10 for the bike leg.
At some races that's the difference between podium and maybe just squeaking into top 10..
Also, at Oly distance it really is a question of seconds, quite often.

In terms of handling, a wheel cover at the back on the current Shimano wheel will add stability over a standard deep wheel. Cheap too, and as fast as a disc.
Then a moderate front wheel depth 404 or so, should not be an issue. Strong crosswinds tend to blow me sideways but I've never had a handling issue with this setup (165lb though).
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [doug in co] [ In reply to ]
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doug in co wrote:
Going to a front 404 and wheel cover (disc) at back was about 1-2min improvement for me, at times around 1:05 to 1:10 for the bike leg.
At some races that's the difference between podium and maybe just squeaking into top 10..
Also, at Oly distance it really is a question of seconds, quite often.
Huge DITTO to this. In sprints, I have had multiple finishes where 5 seconds separated the top 3 AG finishers. Actually, ~20 seconds between 1st and 3rd is the norm. Olympics are a little more spread out, but still often within a minute.

My last Oly, I was 3rd overall. 4th place was just 18 seconds behind me. If I did not have all of my tricks, I would have fallen off the podium.

If you are gunning for podiums (overall, AG, Masters), then you need every trick. Your competitors will have them, and every second matters.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
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scott8888 wrote:
A lot of good advice posted above but I will add that the lighter you are as a rider the more you benefit from aero wheels.

Aero wheels provide a set watt savings at a given speed irrespective of rider weight. For the typical 70-80kg male rider this saving is actually pretty small in terms of the total wattage they are pushing out. At the highest level it remains significant but as a number of poster have mentioned its pretty marginal for a lot or people. At 50kg you will get the same watt savings from the aero wheels but you are only putting out 70% of the total power of the heavier riders so the relative savings are a lot more. In effect at 50kg you will gain a lot more from aero wheels than the average triathlete.


Assuming the lighter rider is pushing fewer watts, this is a good point. And underscores the hogwash argument many faster riders make that slower riders shouldn’t upgrade their wheels until they reach a certain speed as an apparent means to somehow ensure their secret society of speed is not penetrated by others. Buy the upgraded wheels and ride them often!!

From my perspective, it’s hard to stray from HED or Flo 50 or 60mm rims. Both provide plenty of upgraded speed and offer superior braking to the carbon alternatives.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Aug 9, 20 14:01
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [Isabel] [ In reply to ]
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The biggest speed gains on the bike come from paying attention to the littlest details. I think people often forget that. It's not one thing, but yes, you should upgrade your wheels.

I'd shoot for something like a Zipp 303 front and Zipp solid disc rear. Both clincher. Work down from that based on your budget.

Pay close attention to tires (Continential GP5000 with about 2 weeks of riding on them is fast enough), Latex tubes (Vittoria), aero helmet (choose one you like), and keep your head as low and tucked as you feel comfortable with.

Good luck.
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Re: Should I upgrade my wheels? [One and Done] [ In reply to ]
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One and Done: my helmet is Giro Synthe MIPS. Thanks for the good advice on wheels and tires!
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