I'm back to riding with groups for the last few weeks. No special precautions or anything different than pre-virus rides.

Prior to that I was doing some gravel rides with a few friends (no large groups) and we tried to stay as separate as possible, i.e. no pace lines. That went on for a month or so. The gravel group in our area which pre-virus would have at least 2 rides per weekend, is not yet posting rides although I suspect they will soon.

I ride with my wife. I've met a friend to do a TT.

No, I wouldn't do a group ride. No, I don't think it's safe.

Uk rules allow it up to 6 people now. Still distanced.

Ive been out with 1 or 2 friends on the road bike this last week.
Keeping healthy distance tho.
Defo No drafting !
On a quiet road maybe we've been side by side but still well apart laterally - certainly not the 'usual' close riding.
No food sharing.
If you empty or lose bottle... you're going thirsty !

I've also been out on the mtb with 1 buddy. Again well distanced. And steady - still don't want to be the twat that goes to A+E broken.

Same here.

Honestly, i never stopped.

Been riding solo since this all started. My county in Pennsylvania just went "yellow" which allows groups of up to 25 - local club is verifying this is allowed, but me personally at this point - I would have no problem riding in a group. I would just ask to spit and blow snot....drop to the back.

I stayed indoors, on the trainer, until a week or so ago. I didn't want to be the dork in the ER surrounded by COVID patients. I popped two weeks ago. first mtb, then road.

I was in a popular area this past weekend. all the usual pace lines were there, some 20 deep. we are back to normal.

to be fair, the weather in Delaware has been great.

Here in Ontario phase 2 re opening starts on Friday. You can do group activities outdoors with up to 10 people distanced, so that would apply to group rides. I have done zero training with anyone in 14 weeks at this point in any sport. I intend to swim open water with a few people this week and likely ride with a small ground of less than 5 people distanced (so we'll just used WTC drafting rules....take that for what it is worth LOL)

Well, if it makes you feel better, but that's not eliminating the risk. You can't ride behind another rider within 20m+ and be confident you're not vulnerable to viable particulate. If you think occasional spitting or snot rockets are the biggest risk, you don't understand the topic.

Do you have some solid science showing the odds of catching COVID during a group ride? Remember that so far the following have been retracted as the likely vectors despite the early hysteria:


1. common surfaces
2. asymptomatic patients
3. outdoor exposure in general - the latest I have seen is that it takes 15 mins or more of constant exposure to get sufficient viral load which is not something that can happen during the group ride even with a paceline

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I get it and the risk (which I personally think is very little). It’s something a group would feel better about just coming out of hibernation as people comfort levels are different.

Some people in my area never stopped riding in groups (10 to 15 riders). I've now seen groups a lot larger than that on the road or on Strava.

From what I've read, the biggest concern on group rides is not the riding part, but the pre ride or post ride coffee meet ups, when you aren't moving and close to others.

Some groups are back riding not at the pre-covid levels but 10-15 people is not uncommon.
Personally I’m not riding in a group - trainer rides and runs for the past 3 months - finally got back in the pool this past week.
The truth is no-one knows what is truly safe and every time you go outside to exercise you do your own risk analysis (even if this is just an internal sub conscious act).
If I do a group ride that is a minimum of 3 hours in close proximity to a large group of people that I don’t know what they do the rest of the week. I have close family that are old and with poor health, and family that have had recent surgery for cancer - so my risk analysis will be different from someone else’s.
I have noticed more small groups of 2-4 people riding which I think shows people wanting to get out but still shy of the big group rides.
Stay safe, stay healthy, and keep riding - however you choose to do that.

If you are referring to that medium article, I don't think you can infer much from it unless you are riding inside like in a track. It's also not peer reviewed. You need to consider the dilutional affects of wind which is significant.

During phase 2, we were riding in groups of 10. Each week more people show up and we just break up the groups. Two of us are infectious disease specialists. My training partner, who brought me into the group, happens to be overseeing COVID management for medical group of ~500 physicians.

We've been doing this for 3 weeks now. We are all fine.

Don't forget the early notion that pets could transmit it which has now been retracted.

I started riding in small groups of 3-4 people a few weeks ago after staying solo for 7 weeks. Last weekend what started as a small group ended up with 9 or 10 riders which felt a little strange, but it was pretty stretched out and definitely not a paceline.

No special protocols other than I carry a mask or buff with me at all times in case I have an issue and need to go into a convenience store, get an emergency ride, etc.

Pretty much all of my friends are riding in groups and many of them never stopped. I think it's safe and I'm 100% comfortable riding with a few friends.

Did one last week for the first time in a long time.

I was so out of shape I got dropped fast. So I kinda did a group ride - at least the first 20 miles :-)

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Wait, what? Common surfaces -- "droplets" -- is still the best known source of transmission. I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise.

Asymptomatic patients seem very unlikely the shed the virus, but 40%+ of transmission comes from PRE-symptomatic carriers. Those two to three days before you're symptomatic are when you're most contagious.

Outdoor transmission is less likely, but it depends on length of exposure, proximity, and the amount of aerosol someone is producing. A paceline can go on for hours, people are as close as possible, and everyone is breathing hard. If there is scenario for likely outdoor transmission a paceline could well be it.

Apparently many/most states are intentionally under reporting cases.

Criteria for reopening states were developed, but no one wanted to bother so we just shrugged our shoulders and reopened anyway. (How many states have actually met those criteria? Three?)

So basically, with no reliable guidance or information, do what you feel like.

Me? I touch people for a living. They're often ill, or elderly. My main concern is not killing anyone. Group rides are not worth the risk.

And we are still getting 20,000 a day and 1000 deaths. At some point the collective interest and will waned as we accepted this.

California on a steady 7 day increase, same for Texas, suppose deaths are down though!

Our club canned all group rides until further notice.

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Pete Githens
Reading, PA

I’ve got a 423 person 200km group ride planned for Sunday. Fingers crossed the weather is good.

This kind of sums it up for me. I guess it kind of depends on situations. I live in a rural area of the US, so the virus isn't such a hot topic here as it is in say downtown NYC.

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- Jordan

My Strava

I live in Iowa. As of now there are two projections for state-wide deaths by Sept.1.

What we've been doing, which was never even a full lock down = under 1,000 dead.

Open wide, forget the masks and social distancing = 16,000 dead.

Without real guidance or reliable information, these are the choices we're making.

I've ridden with a couple close friends.

Wouldn't feel comfortable riding with a bunch of people, or people I don't know.

Lots of heavy breathing and snot rockets and stuff probably isn't a good mix in close proximity, even at 20mph.

I have a choice of 4-5 group rides.

Everyone's doing it.

Not everyone.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

Haha....just quoted for the record.....all those things that the mass hysteria was being generated about and for which Joe Skipper was being hammered and shamed on his 300km ride, indeed proven to have no basis with proven data then (and now).

Now in phase 2 reopening in Ontario, groups of 10 people can get together spaced. At this point it looks like we can have an Ironman corporation Kona style 10 person peloton with Kona approved spacing :-). I think where I live there will be social acceptance by drivers of 10 person groups of cyclists now. I would have not ventured into such a large group because of the driver reaction a week ago, but it might be OK.

I swam open water with my swim club at the local beach this week. There were around 15 of us, trickling in over a 5 minute window and entering the water in singles (ultimate rolling start), but the crowds at the beach was pretty insane. All the people shaming Florida, its all happening here now that the weather is better up North.

Should be socially acceptable to bike in moderate size training groups now.

(Just replying to last)

One thing that a statewide biking group posted early on here in WA state, was what cycling would look like in each of our 4 phases. Guidelines for groups, events, etc.

Safety aside, one reason for this was also public perception.
As a percentage of the general population already views cyclists with disdain, dislike (pick your favorite pejorative), this could add fuel to their fire if it seems like riders are abusing the rules when others are following them (and therefore missing THEIR favorite things, like golf, bowling whatever)

That said, the advice seems to have been largely ignored in my area, but you know, they were trying

In my area, I have seen very few groups and I live close to some good riding in the west of Ottawa Canada where there would normally be a lot. With the outdoor group limits extended to 10 while distanced, it changes the picture. Literally we can have soccer teams practice as two separate groups of 10, walking groups can get together, and families can get together indoor and outdoor in groups of no more than 10. So with the social interaction between all other groups other than cycling enhanced, it should be viable for riders to get together in spaced groups while arousing only the "regular" public outrage towards cyclists (vs the extra outrage you refer to). So let's see. I have not done a ride with anyone yet, but itching to do one finally.

Dev

I met a group at a local high school this week and they had full-on football practice going on.

No one seems to care anymore in my locale. Social distancing is basically over where I live.

I’m curious if people are riding in groups in your area now or most people still going solo?

For us in the UK, any club ride has to be groups no bigger than 6.

I'm riding often with 2 or 3 friends. Think the max I've been out with was 5 (inc me) to recce the route for a half IM that's taking place today

It’s safe. Group rides are going strong in central Arkansas. Certainly wouldn’t fault anyone for sticking with solo rides though.

Well based on all the Covid19 laden French fans on the side of the Tour de France and zero riders getting sick from those aerosols (from a relative motion it does not matter if riders are flowing throw the aerosol, or you're coming into the aerosol of a leading rider) I think we can pretty much put to bed that we'll get sick from riding with others outdoors. But we already knew that from following cyclists who had other coronaviruses previously but i guess we needed to find out if this one would be different outdoors in the huge air turbulence of moving at 25-60 kph (it does not take much for 60 kph to happen.....45 kph on a slight downhill into 15 kph headwind). Looks like the Tour de France going through all those crazy fans should make us more calm about outdoor exposure.

....and as it turns out, I only ended up doing one ride with 2 other people and 9 rides with one other person all summer. Back to solo training now!

I ride consistently ride with one other person and occasionally two others. However, this weekend my Masters group is doing a Half or Olympic starting at a lake behind a team members house. Looks like seven are going to race plus a few volunteers.

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All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

Same. We had a big discussion in email space about what we should do and decided to go ahead and keep riding. We meet in a park in a big parking lot so we keep our distance from each other at that point, and we no longer congregate in the bagel shop mid-ride, but the actual ride itself is no different.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

I'm 100% personally with group riding.

COVID infections rates are severely attenuated by being outdoors - add to that a stiff wind when you're in a fast-moving group, and I strongly suspect you're as safe as you'll be short of isolating yourself completely from humanity.

I'll take a fast group ride even with randos in terms of safety from COVID any day compared to grocery shopping with a non-N95 respirator mask even in an appropriately socially-distanced grocery store.

Do you grocery shop for two hours at a time, standing directly downwind from a bunch of people who are breathing heavily, while you yourself are breathing heavily?

If you've ever ridden on a group ride you've probably been hit by snot from someone blowing their nose. Now think about how the particles that contain the virus are far smaller, disperse far wider, and are coming out with every exhale that rider (or group of riders) takes. The outdoors and wind doesn't matter much when you are in a draft for long periods of time.

I haven't ridden with more than one person, side by side, since March. I have no plans to do otherwise until someone can prove that being in a group is safe, a vaccine is out and widely used, or new infection rates have dropped to negligible levels. My health and the health of those around me is too important to gamble.

It's extraordinarily difficult to to run a study specifically for cycling in groups. There was one early one from the Netherlands I think but it was extremely flawed.
However, the general consensus from the scientific community is that outdoor sports in groups that don't have close physical contact (like say.. rugby) is perfectly fine.
Go out and ride with your friends. You're not gambling anyone's health.

The fact we draft in groups makes this a LOT different than most other outdoor sports. Running in groups could be somewhat similar depending on how you do it, but I don't think many people typically run in tight drafting groups for long periods.
Team sports like soccer or basketball for example may have everyone in close proximity but not drafting so there's plenty time for particulate to settle or disperse before encountering others. Bear in mind that the scientific community is dealing in general rules and not considering the specific characteristics of specific activities, because they have no other choice at this point. Those of us familiar with both the sports and some of the scientific realities are in a better position to determine if our particular cases are typical or might be significantly more risky. There's very little doubt that group cycling is far more likely to permit transmission than most other outdoor sports.

I cycle, I studied aerodynamics, and I'm a specialist in in clean room airflow and particulate testing, including viable particulate sampling under operational conditions. I've also done some work with bio-safety cabinets and fume hoods including airflow measurements, visualisation studies, and containment studies. I'm not terribly knowledgeable about viral infection, but given the typical mode of transmission is known to be airborne particulate, I consider myself in a pretty good position to take make my own assessment. I think group rides are reasonable providing infection rates in the community are very low, otherwise I consider it too risky and I won't be doing it.

The beauty of freedom is that you can choose whether or not to ride in groups for yourself! Others may choose differently 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oh stop being idiotic!

1. What's this got to do with my post?
2. This is not simply about personal safety, it's about being a responsible member of society.

I don't think you're going to convince most here, it seems we're just shy of chanting: If It Saves Even One Life...

Your 2nd point has run its course by now I believe. Responsible according to....you?

I am not getting your point. Are you saying that people should not do group riding which is far less risky than many things already legally permitted in most of the world coming out of lockdown (indoor shopping, indoor bars and restaurants to name a few), or are you saying its OK to do given how insanely low the risk is. Most of the protour peloton should be dead after 2 months of racing on Covid19 laden fan packed roads and getting it from each other, but it looks like no one has picked it up from another rider yet.

The riders were tested before being allowed to race, thus they weren't drafting people spewing aerosolized covid. They may have ridden by people with covid, sure, but that's why most outdoor sports are considered safe - you are coming into very brief possible contact. It's an entirely different story when you are drafting someone, or multiple people, who are contagious.

The infectious disease specialist and professor at the local university that I chat with skiing sometimes told me straight out that sports like Nordic skiing and cycling, where you can exercise in a paceline, are extraordinarily low risk. He said if you think they are dangerous you probably shouldn't leave your house ever. He went on about dispersion rates and viral load, etc... but the basic message was go exercise with your buddies, just don't hang out in a closed space for food and drinks after.

The Protour peloton is primarily over 70 years of age with underlying health issues? Wow, that makes completing the TDF even more impressive.

Personal experience tells me that riding in a paceline puts me in the "snotstream" of the riders in front of me. Everyone who has ridden in a group has emerged from rides with someone else's snot on them at some point.
If you don't think this is a problem, give your buddy a spray bottle filled with beet juice, and set it to the mist setting. Now ride behind them while they spray small amounts from that bottle directly in front of them every second or so. I promise you that you will find beet juice all over your face, your bike, and your clothes. Now imagine being in a group of 20-50 guys, all with spray bottles for multiple hours at a time. Then remember that beet juice doesn't have the potential to kill you, permanently damage your hearts lungs or brain, and isn't contagious.

My protocol is ride mostly solo. I have gone out with small groups for short rides occasionally. I've joined in (not planned prior) with some groups while out riding solo. Stay physically far apart and mask on at any gathering after the ride.

Basically, I acknowledge that this is non-zero risk. I think that taking those risks occasionally is permissible. I'm not in a hot Covid zone right now. If Minnesota's infection rate heats up, I'll have to stop entirely.

I agree that if we want to do the absolute utmost for society, we should all go full hermit. However, that isn't sustainable for most people.

I'm not looking forward to winter, though. That's when it's too cold for most people to comfortably ride outside, and I'm in this camp. I'll hike, walk, and run as much as I can. I'll get an indoor trainer and hop on Zwift. I think I'll want to go to the gym occasionally, and the campus gym is making everyone wear masks while exercising. I'll have to see how many people there are to judge if this is a risk worth taking.

Interesting article about tandem cycling in times of Covid, just released. Basically, the Dr. says wear a mask, ride with a captain you know, and enjoy the ride.

https://www.theatlantic.com/...ycling-covid/616537/

I happen to live in an area that had higher positivity and now has lower positivity test rates. Some people never stoped riding in groups and now most who rode in groups pre Covid, are back riding in some type of group now. Some larger and some smaller. Almost all of thise that were staunchly anti group are back in small groups. If you have pre existing conditions, of course you should reflect on that risk. Our community, for what it’s worth, doesn’t know any cyclists that have caught Covid from another cyclist on a ride. The few riders in our community that have gotten Covid, feel they know exactly where they got it... some on vacation earlier in the year, and others from family members that visited, and were found to be positive before they were positive.

I, along, with many other riders were discussing we have ridden with others who had the flu or common cold over the years, and none of us could recall getting sick from those other riders who were still sick, but wanted to ride. The CDC says getting Covid outside versus inside is 1/20th of the risk. Throw in fast moving air, the numbers drop more. How much, who knows, but the risk of getting Covid appears to be so much higher in most other activities.

Covid will likely be with us for many years, in some capacity, so I guess everyone will eventually have to decide what risks they are willing to take... and of course, driving to a group ride or race, will probably continue to be more deadly than anything caught on a group ride.

n=1, but I was a pretty good guinea pig recently in a "can you catch covid while cycling" test. About a month ago I went on a 4.5 hour ride with a buddy...just the two of us. We spent the first ~3 hours taking turns pulling but the last hour and a half I started to hurt and spent the entire time on his wheel and directly in his "snotstream".

The next day his wife wakes up not feeling well so she gets a rapid covid test which comes back positive. This causes him to get tested, also positive. I rode almost 5 hours alone with someone who was asymptomatic but covid positive (he did end up developing symptoms, they're both fully recovered now).

After 2 weeks of quarantine and 2 negative tests...I never caught the virus. Like I said, n=1 but let's just say I'm 1000% comfortable riding outdoors in groups with others now.

Firstly in 40+ years of riding I have never had the snot of another rider land on me. Maybe I was lucky that the riders I hve been around my entire life spread over 20 different countries have more courtesy.

Secondly, someone's snot laning on my tights or jacket, or helmet of glasses or cheeks won't give me Covid19 even if this new snot stream theory of snot transmitting Covid19 in a paceline has any validity.

I was curious after reading all these posts (yeah I'm that bored).
So I hope you don't mind if I ask, without prejudice, a few questions to satisfy my own morbid curiosity about exposure to this virus.

When you ride do you wear standard normal sunglasses, cycling glasses, wrap around frames or a visor, do you cycle face up or down, and do you breath, predominantly, through your mouth or nose. Do you wear cycling gloves and were you riding a road bike, on or off the hoods or Tri bike. And how relaxed is your position.

All of these are factors, I would assume, on whether someone is fully exposed to the virus.
Lastly when you were following, how close were you on their wheel.
Are they heavy sweaters.

Was the weather calm, sunny, windy, low or high temps and what sort of speed were you riding at.

I don't actually group ride, ever, but I do (or have) ridden with a partner/coach.
And I was curious about what things may reduce the risk factors and if anyone had thought through that process.

As you say n=1, you are confident that your experience following a single, infectious, rider makes you confident in a group.
Although I must admit I'm not sure why, but I would wonder how large the group could be and how many in the group can be infectious before you lose that confidence (assuming you know in advance). Fortunately cycling weather comes to an end (for the weak knee'd like me) very soon in this neck of the woods so this is purely rhetorical as I have no races and no overwhelming need to stop eating cookies for some time to come.....:0)

Cycling sunglasses (Roka SR-1x)
I was wearing gloves with cut off fingers
We were on road bikes, switching between hoods and drops depending on the pace
We were pushing pretty hard at times, I was definitely huffing and puffing, breathing mostly through my mouth.
Position is relatively aggressive on the road bike, I've got like half a spacer on the stem.
Was right on his wheel, like I mentioned we rode hard and I was feeling it, I was definitely wheel sucking to not get dropped.
Weather was warm (mid 70s to low 80s), humid and cloudy, probably 10-15 mph winds
We averaged 20-21 mph

I'd say I'm confident as long as nobody spits or blows their nose on me, otherwise I don't see how it could get much worse than what I was exposed to.

In Minnesota I have been riding with a group of 20-30 riders once a week. They have been riding since June but I have joined for the past 6 weeks. The ride is 50-60 miles long lasting around three hours. The temp ranges from 40 to 70 degrees and typically has been around 60. The wind conditions have been all across the board. We ride in a paceline and sometimes two across when the road permits. We make a bathroom stop at the halfway mark and everyone loosely gathers together to chat or take in some nutrition. Nobody wears masks except for after the ride for those heading into the coffee shop. I know of zero incidences of a cyclist contracting COVID.

I also lead an indoor cycle class once a week and have been doing so since mid-August. Participation has been low (4-6 members) so easy to keep a safe distance. I am anticipating for things to pick up as the weather cools down. Masks are required in the building but not while on the bike. The attention to safety and cleanliness has been stellar. Again, no incidences of members getting sick at my location or any others in my area.

We have a simple rule.... if you have to expectorate, leave the paceline. But really this was expected before C-19.

Thanks for sharing your story. Have you ever tested for Covid antibodies? Curious to see if you ruled out being positive previously, but unknown to you and asymptomatic. Thanks.

That's a good point, I have not had an antibody test so there is some possibility that I previously had it and never knew. I don't currently have any plans to get an antibody test but will update the thread if I do.

I'm not saying you didn't previously have covid but 99% of my friends and co-workers believe they had it until they've gotten an antibody test and it shows they didn't. Obviously, that's a small sample size but I constantly hear people say they think they had covid. If you want a free covid antibody test just donate blood with the red cross. That's what I did. I didn't think I'd ever contracted covid but I figured it wouldn't hurt to give blood and get the free antibody test

There's a very big difference between "can you catch covid while cycling" and "did you catch covid while cycling".
You only know that you didn't. This is not science.
Far too many people have zero idea how to design a test or draw a conclusion, but are going around drawing false conclusions left, right, and centre. The US president included.
Your anecdote is just that. Without context, and repetition (considerable repetition under controlled similar/varying circumstances) and statistical analysis of same, you have no conclusion worth sharing and your "1000%" comfort is baseless.

Ok dude, just sharing my story that was fully caveated with “n=1”

People are free to make their own conclusions. As a result of both my experience as well as guidelines suggesting that the virus is far more difficult to contract outdoors I’m comfortable with riding outdoors with others. This obviously isn’t a scientific study and was never framed as one...just an anecdote.

Riders assembling for the start at the Tour de Clermont (Florida) this past weekend (3 Oct 2020). I wore a mask to packet pick-up and maybe until about 5 mins before the start. Other than that, it was just your standard organized ride with course markings and SAG stops. The pack quickly broke apart within 5 miles of the start and I rode most of the way with 3 friends. The volunteers at SAG stops had masks and gloves and handed riders individual water bottles instead of people refilling from the typical 10 gallon Igloo coolers.

are you aware of the difference between being "subjective" and "objective?"

Why yes.

Are you aware that probability of virus transmission is not subjective?