rofl, i just watch the views of this post go from 600 to 1000 in a single refresh.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

?

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I can't see much of anything in that pic...it is kind of dark.

Anyway, I love felt bikes, there is something about their bikes that is so hot...I'd love to see that carbon TT bike up close...

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____________________________________________________
Check out my IMLP Janus Charity Challenge Page
https://www.kintera.org/...&supid=247145789
Raising Funds for Myeloma Research in Honor of my Mom

I went through the Felt booth yesterday at the ToC and saw Jim there. They had a nice B2 set up with 909's and all the bells and whistles but if I recall correctly it was alloy. The really amazing bike was the R3 at the Cervelo booth. It felt like a feather and they had handles mounted where axels would go and invited you to try to twist the thing. It was stiff as a rock. Of course twisting with your arms is not the same as your legs and body weight.

I presumed that we would not see this thing there. I can't tell much from this photo, is that a shadow?:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...lifornia060/b85f5534

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I can't tell from the photo. Maybe someone out there will ask him at the traveling expo. I should have thought of that. He was just standing there with nothing to do. His new carbon road bikes sure where nice though so can't see a reason why the B2 is so late to the party. I always thought that was an understated classy looking bike.

I picked up a 2005 Felt F2C team issue right after Christmas and love the bike more every time I ride it. I'd be VERY interested to see the TT bike in carbon....

Please keep the spy pics coming!!

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gbassett.com

Probably to be made in the same Korean joint as the P3C (or is it Chineese?).

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I'll do some recon on this tomorrow - will provide more pics if they are available.

I'm thinking it may just be the girl in the background's hair. It would be cool to have a new bike to look at though!

Dan
www.aiatriathlon.com

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http://www.aiatriathlon.com

Did you get your 2007 teaser mailing yet?

Sorry Tom

That's a standard B2 with the outline of the woman it the background's face creating the effect of an aero head tube.

Keep up the good work though... DYING to see the new B2 (or whatever it's going to be called)

B

That web link is incomplete.

nope. he is incompetent. ;)

Pretty harsh words coming from the most likely candidate to take home 'dumbass of the year' from slowtwitch this year.

Chris

Here is the article -

New Felt DA Carbon uncovered (Almost)
By Jay Prasuhn

July 22, 2006 -- First, a disclaimer: there will be no spy photos. You’ll wish there were spy photos, but there are none—yet.

There has been a buzz in the triathlon bike industry over the last month that longtime designer Jim Felt of Felt Racing had “something new” in the works. Something that will be “pretty revolutionary” industry experts told us. We didn’t know what it was or looked like, but that it was different.

So we finally went to the source, Mr. Felt himself. The man was, to put it loosely, enthralled with the impending debut of what was borne two years ago on a few cocktail napkins with fellow Felt designer Tim Lane at the Sea Otter Classic. Now, with tunnel testing done, computer fluid designs run, molds created and production slated to begin, the DA is reborn.

We’ll get the basics out of the way first: unlike its aluminum predecessor, the new DA will be all carbon. And unlike many bikes, it was truly born in the tunnel. Before any molds were created, Felt visited the San Diego Wind Tunnel to test plastic versions of his bike. It wasn’t until Felt was satisfied with the numbers he would go ahead with the process of making the DA.

Here’s where it gets interesting: at the tunnel, San Diego wind tunnel engineer Dave Sanford, who has hosted several dozen bike brands in the tunnel for tests, sidled up to Felt. “I don’t know if you know what you’ve done, but nobody has come in here the first time and come up with these kinds of numbers,” Felt said, beaming.

According to Felt who has had the likes of Paula Newby Fraser, Andy Potts and Craig Walton in his sponsored athlete stable, the new DA will have an aero profile that he says trumps many of the heavy hitters. Rear seat cowlings? A 3-1 aspect ratio? What’s it look like? We peppered Felt with questions. He was mum.

The details will be what will set this bike apart from the rest and make it an aero marvel. And while we tried to wrest ‘em from Felt, as you’ll find in our Q & A below, he was tight-lipped. “We really want Interbike to be the first place people see the new DA,” Felt said. “You’ll have to wait until then to see it.” We could press no more.

On with our Q&A . . .

Triathlete: So, we heard you have an ace in the hole….

Jim Felt: Oh yeah. It’s pretty friggin’ cool. It’s the new DA, and it’s back in carbon. One of our designers, Tim Lane and I have been at this one for a while, and it’s great to see it finally becoming a reality. And Tim, he really put his heart and soul into this.

It was two years ago at Sea Otter when we began sketching it. We went to the wind tunnel last few months, and… it was awesome. I went around and borrowed every bike that has gone fast and tested everyone else’s bikes before we put our own in there. Then we put ours in. It was so cool. I went in open minded. Then Dave (Sanford, San Diego Wind Tunnel engineer) said “you’ve done something pretty special here.” We put in everything, and we’re right there. We made some really good results.

Triathlete: How did you come up with something that was able to really challenge some brands that have been well established the last few years, and how does it look?

Felt: I can’t tell you to much about how it looks, but it’s so far different than what everyone else has done. Here’s the thing: we really did design it in the tunnel. It was created at first through computer fluid design. We’ll have data on how the bike was made more aero. Then we made a plastic model, and that’s what we took to the wind tunnel to do our first real model tests. When you’re looking at molds that are $50,000, $60,000, you want to make sure you do things right. The function will be amazing. And we’re already looking to get back to the wind tunnel.

Triathlete: What can you tell us about the geometry and build specifics?

Felt: The geometry is very close to the original Felt. It’ll have a little shorter chainstays to fit the wheel, it’ll have horizontal dropouts. Things are tucked away that will help the aerodynamics. I can tell you it is not a frame and a fork. It’s a complete bike. You can’t buy the frame and put a kit together. It’s a system. I think that’s what sets us apart.

Triathlete: What kind of spec and pricing?

Felt: Pricing? Expensive. Spec will be with Dura-Ace. It’s higher end. I think people will be surprised. It will be worth it, however. Everything will be top-of-the-line. It’s higher end. And when people see it, I honestly think they won’t be able to turn it down. It’s eye candy for sure.

Triathlete: Sizing run?

Felt: It’ll be a full range in centimeters in evens, and smaller sizes will be in 650. Triathlete: We have to ask: when you’re talking about beating some pretty proven brands in the tunnel, have you been approached by any ProTour teams for sponsorship?

Felt: I can’t say much, but things are happening. We’re going big ring in one fashion or another. It’s within the rules. It’s UCI legal.

Triathlete: So there has been interest from ProTour teams?

Felt: Yes.

You’ll see the first photos of the DA in the October issue of Triathlete, and the bike will make its official industry debut Sept. 25-29 at Interbike in Las Vegas. Be sure to check Triathlete’s Interbike web gallery that week at triathletemag.com for insider shots of the DA and everything else from Interbike.

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- Matt

Shades of Hooker (with all the upsides and downsides of proprietary parts), circa 1990.

Like you can almost see any of it!!!!

[reply][reply]
I can tell you it is not a frame and a fork. It’s a complete bike. You can’t buy the frame and put a kit together. It’s a system. [/reply]
Shades of Hooker (with all the upsides and downsides of proprietary parts), circa 1990.[/reply]


Funny you should mention Hooker since I once asked Jim about cut outs and horizontal drop outs. His reply was that in his opinion nobody had done a decent one since the infamous Hooker.

??

While a few of the early Hooker track bikes had cut outs (somewhat less deep than on, e.g., a Cervelo P2k), this wasn't a standard feature on their road/TT bikes (which had vertical dropouts).

So how integrated is the new frame?

Integrated BB? Scott says some companies will be making that leap in 07.

Integrated Fork? Like Look but with tri geometry?

Integrated Seatpost? Again many road bikes are getting it in 2007

Brakes integrated or hidden like Oval's front tt brake but with a fork that is then redesigned in front?

Different frame widths like Walser? That would be about the biggest gamble, needing a proprietary front or rear wheel, although Shimano is making rear discs and cranks to fit walsers.

I know nothing will come onto this board before it is released and some of the above stated stuff is pretty out there but speculation is a good time.

Anyone else think it will be big changes or it will just be a carbon DA frame?

yes

wow Dave, that baby looks fast!

Okay now post some better pics than the pics I saw, how many more days again?

And even better, more info on the new mtn bikes!

8 days Tai. The new MTB is everywhere since we've released it globally. Check this months' MBA pg 37 or use google and search on Felt Equilink. We are launching soon with full details for the public after Interbike. You'll likely get additional sneak peaks up till that point as well.

ShawnF: Photoshoot day today around Modjeska Cyn, so much bike porn we could have been ticketed for public indecency.

cool, thanks dave, can't wait to see the real thing (tri bike) and I've been wondering when you'll bring those awesome euro only mtn bikes to the US.

You know that new tri bike looks a lot like the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ that we saw earlier on the forum;)

Spy shot:

http://public.fotki.com/kennybz/bike_racing_photos/2006/eldorado_park_tuesd/eldorado_8106/eldo-8-1-297.html

http://public.fotki.com/kennybz/bike_racing_photos/2006/eldorado_park_tuesd/eldorado_8606/eldo-8-8-462.html

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

how brutal was eldo this past week? Were you in the break or in the main pack? Anyway, I noticed that you were riding the matte black felt and figured it was a new bike. Is that the same bike that you had at costa mesa crit (which you won I believe)? - Ernie

"ShawnF: Photoshoot day today around Modjeska Cyn, so much bike porn we could have been ticketed for public indecency."

LOL!!! You'd think with all the Felt pros in the Springs area, I would have seen something already...

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

I thought about this all night after looking at your 'spy shot'...why would you be riding the new DA in a crit race? Unimaginable!!

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

I was popped quickly from the break after contesting a prime. I should know better that to mix it up with Health Net, Targettraining, etc... That morning's coffee crew romp had me aching on the first lap.

That is the same frame I raced at Costa Mesa, I was fotunate enough to get into a managable break in that race, and with only 3 guys to watch, it was a little easier than negotiating turn 4 with the whole feild. The fork and bars are all new now as well. We've pulled no punches in refining the new carbon frames.

I got a 28.3 mph average at Eldo even after getting shelled to the feild. It was on for sure. A couple of those guys join the afterwork loop on Thursday that rolls through Santiago Canyon, the skinny Health Net kid can crush the climbs flat. Amazing!

Perhaps I'll see you again out there, feel free to say hello before or after the race.


-SD

Did you make it this week?

Wow, another knee breaker, I got 25.5 miles in under 54 minutes. Nuts, who is driving that pace?

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

What are we at, like 2 days? At the end of this countdown are you going to post some pics or are you just teasing us?

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

yeah I was there. I had a crash at the UPS crit on sunday because a guy raised his arms after winning the race. He then bumped a guy who fell in front of me. I went down instantly at a jillion. Fortunately, just road rash and my bike was ok. Last nights eldo was just an easy night as a ref for the 4/5's. It was REAL interesting riding as the ref for that group! I'll be at costa mesa again in two weeks. Maybe see you there?

Here's a start:



http--http://www.feltracing.com-07-07_triathlon-larger-images-B2.jpg



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Link doesn't work...what a tease.

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------------------------
Ride it like I stole it.

  Red X and a link that won't link. Tease.

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This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

I'm headed back "home" to Detroit to race the Detroit 6-Day on the track and close on my home I just sold there. I'm bummed I'll miss Costa Mesa, I like that course and might finally have the legs to stay in the 1,2 race.

I'm going to duck into the 4/5 race on the 29th at El Do for some speed work on the track bike. Come say hello, I'll be the pudgy guy on the Felt TK2.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Dave sucks! Dave sucks! Dave sucks!...C'mon, everybody...Dave sucks! Dave sucks! ; )

Seriously, fix the link.

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

Hmm, it was working before, perhaps the brass is on to me. I'll see if I can host some photos.

Stay tuned.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Based on the format of the other links at the site, I tried to fix it to www.feltracing.com/07/07_triathlon/larger/images/B2.jpg

But that didn't help. What a tease.

Well, the roadworthy Superbikes were alloy, not carbon, and the aspect ratio on nearly all of those tubes are illegal so little sense can be made of copying that bike. However, the wheel cut outs, the horizontal dropouts, the asymetric nature of a bicycle itself and their take on executing the most aerodynamic bicycle ever made certainly has merit to mimic.

What we have is unique with proven elements and falls within all of the strict rules and still keeps up with bikes like the airfoil, lotus, and SBIII.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Blah, blah, blah...we still don't have pics!!!!

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

It is a day late but... Dave sucks! Dave sucks! Dave sucks! By the way, this is not the link you are looking for move along now.

Can you fire Dave? If you can, you should!!!! ; )

I hope you're doing alright. How was the wind-tunnel testing?

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

Really, really big hype, I like it.

He's just stringing us along, isn't he? That's just plain mean.

That B2C is one sweet looking bike. I can't wait to see the real bike in person.

Is that what I think it is hidden behind/under the (blank) ?

Damn... I am ready to pony up $5K just to *see* the f-in thing!

OK people, stop bumping this damn thread up unless there's a photo of the damn thing!

It's like waiting for the ups guy & watching him drive right by your house.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

... bump.

But if we don't bump it, we can't keep harassing SD to post the pic.

How many more replies do we need to get this thing going until Interbike??

Cmon...just a teaser pic? Please...

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member of the Litespeed Mafia

I've got a pic. but I'm not sure if they (Felt) want it posted yet. I'll find out and if it's ok I'll share with you guys. Also, some other cool stuff from Felt is on the way.

Maybe Super Dave will share some of his info. on the new stuff from Felt.

He said it is fine and he doesn't mind at all if you post it.

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Richard Melik | I work for the following companies | Zwift.com | Freespeed Bike Fit (UK)
Manager | David McNamee

Yeah right, I'm calling your bluff.

:-)

I've got a photo too! It's a little grainy but...

Where are the pics?

How about we just start taking bets on this one again?

Here it is....finally

http://img.buzznet.com/...msg-1130159201-2.jpg

4 posts and you get us with this?

nice work, keep it up

you in Cleveland?

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----------------------------------------------------
Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year

OK... I am not going to let this die until I see a pic. Dammit!

You and me both!


I'm putting in my vote for " Post of the year " to whoever ponies up and shows us the bike.

Isn't that just a P3?

Yes, the new Felt P3 :-)

BUMP!

I'm starting to think there isn't one...

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

with some pretty good photoshop work to black out the cervelo logo, add the felt, and blur it (in all 3 locations).

however, if it were to be truly believable, they probably should have blacked out the small painted section on the seat tube :-) That could have then gotten people wondering if it was a P3, or a Felt ;-)

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Craig Preston - President / Preston Presentations
Saving the world with more professional, powerful, and persuasive presentations - one audience at a time.

It looks nothing like that. The Felt boys are all probably sleeping after a long work weekend. Trust me, this bike is worth the wait.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

I'm sure it's worth the wait.



It was worth the wait when I finally saw the new Cervelo P4C. That thing is HOT!!!

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Fortitudine Vincimus

I've seen the pics, seems it does exist, now when will SuperDave post some better pics online. The pics I saw were way too tiny...

Not photoshop, just a rebadged bike.

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Portside Athletics Blog

Well, If there was one, and I had seen it, I wouldn't be able to say anything about it... :)

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I'm looking at the image of the FELT B2 Carbon right now. Probably the same image of the bike that Tom has.

It should be worth the wait.

Liar. There's no way you're looking at it right now.

Of course, you can defend your honor by actually posting the pic.

I don't have a working scanner in my shop/office.

The pictures exist. I've talked to felt and they just busted butt this past weekend to get everything in shape. Sounds like B2 and DA are carbon. DA full build comes with tubular wheels. That's all I could get out of them.

Yes, I've seen the pics. I have not seen pics of Felts whole 2007 lineup.

Yeah, I've seen the pics too.

Yeah, that's the ticket. And I don't have a scanner either.

I've got the pics all over my office, they are loaded as wallpaper on my PC, and I am contemplating making posters, no billboards!, out of them.

Billboards, that's the ticket!

Sweet sweet pics. I've seen the whole lineup. For 2007. AND for 2008 even.

Sorry I can't share them with anybody.



;-)

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float , hammer , and jog

you know what else???

I date a supermodel. 2 of them actually... they're both drop dead smokin hot. And they're rich. And nymphos and one of their dads owns a bike shop and the other owns a liquor store.

I've got dozens of pics of us on vacation in the south of France riding around in my Ferrari... But I just can't seem to get my scanner to work either...

dang...

I just saw a picture of the new Felt Carbon B2 today at my LBS. They had a flyer from Felt with all the new 2007 bikes. The new carbon B2 looks pretty sharp. Has the flared rear wheel cutout. Rest of the bike looked like the current B2. MSRP was $1500 - 6500. Black with white/red lettering.

---

18x Ironman, 3x Hawaii
US Army (Ret.), Vietnam Vet ('71-'72)

In your expert opinion will the B2C or D/A C compete with the P3C?

Hopefully Superdave will drop some high res pics soon. The flyer which I think was not really for public eyes just yet showed a pretty cool looking Felt TT/Tri bike with a faired rear wheel as well as a deep downtube with a fairing sorta looking like the old Look TT bikes for the front wheel. Rear brake, maybe by the BB, can't quite tell in the pics. Looks like a sweet bike, but a different look than the P3. Rumors were that it tested slipperier than the p3 in the wind tunnel. I'm curious to see the geometries and better pics.

WE WANT PICS..........

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Superdave! Please post some pictures. These antics are about as immature as me threatening to buy a P3 to upgrade my current B2 instead of the new B2 or D/A carbon.

so close...

The speculation thus far has been intriguing. Find a Felt Dealer, have him call his Felt Outside Sales rep, and make an appointment for a fitting.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Superdae, why oh why would I need to make an appointment for a fitting when I'm perfectly adapted to the position of my current B2. Did you go and change the geometry?

So now we have gone from buying a bike without riding it, to buying a bike with out even seeing it.

And if it ain't a beam it ain't for me.

But I like to look at those pretty double diamond bikes.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

well if you fit the current bike perfectly, you'll be happy. If you've adapted a Felt to work in the extremes of the frame size fit band you'll be very happy.

-SD

damn you Dave!

Hey Dave, I never recieved the flyer, but since I've seen it in person...:-)

From what people are, or are not describing, it sorta sounds like the pictures didn't quite reveal everything - is that true?

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Behold, the Felt B2C!

Hmmmm...no pics yet?

The "picture" is really small and I think an artists sketch versus the real bike...

Ok, OK,



Here it is....

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

That's hideous! Felt, what have you done??

The teaser images are just that, teasers. Mostly line drawings of the frame concepts. The production photos were not used. The fork on the B2 changed a little from the drawing, we made an upspec since then.

When are you coming for a visit? We can roll out the bikes finally and had lots of reps get out on test rides of the new Z and Equilink equipped bikes.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Any resemblance to this?



[Photo from BikesportMichigan]

actually yup, wanted to say that earlier but the rear end looks a lot like that. well maybe not the post. I'm sure we'll see real pictures soon. This is a pretty damn good way of getting anticipation up for the frame though:)

Now screw the tri bikes, I want to test ride an Equilink!

I haven't found that integrated seat posts make much sense and at the very least, since frame members MUST be no narrower than 25mm according to the UCI rule and have an aspect ratio less than 3:1 integrating them should be slower than leaving them adjustable and seperate. The UCI does not govern the dimensions of the seat post's width or aspect ratio.

The same applies to the photo and the down tube of that bike. Puting an integrated head tube on that bike and moving the downtube further down the headtube to increase the aspect ratio in the horizontal plane would be faster aerodynamically. While the bike in the photo can house the cables internally in the downtube, certainly having all that cable housing exposed in clean air around the head tube and in front of the bike makes little sense.

No, if Felt were to produce a new bike for 2007 we'd be much further along than this attempt.


-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I've got every '06 model in stock, what size do you need?

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

 

When these unseen bikes come out, how long until they will be arriving in our LBS?

By the way, this suspense has got to be good for business...bad for us, good for you guys...

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===============================

member of the Litespeed Mafia

[reply]The teaser images are just that, teasers. Mostly line drawings of the frame concepts. The production photos were not used. The fork on the B2 changed a little from the drawing, we made an upspec since then.

When are you coming for a visit? We can roll out the bikes finally and had lots of reps get out on test rides of the new Z and Equilink equipped bikes.[/reply]

Ahhh, got it - that makes sense then on the lack of a "full description."

I'll sneak up there Wed or Thu - I'm not in the shop tomorrow. I did cut a 'cross course in esmart's neck of the woods, but it's a work in progress. Maybe we can throw eggs at his pad on every lap.

Concerning the post about the inability of getting bikes, that's simply not true. As a new shop owner I can attest that Felt is the most responsive bike company I deal with on a daily basis, and I'm happy to report I deal with them every single day since I'm selling their bikes left and right. I'm lucky enough to be a few minutes away from Felt's "Worldwide International Headquarters" so I realize that helps, but more often than not, bikes are in stock. At this time of year, certain sizes in certain models are not available, but that's hardly an issue exclusive to Felt. This company has really stepped up to the plate with my new shop, and recognized how difficult it can be for a new shop owner with a rapidly growing store to forecast future sales. I didn't start with Felt in the store, but bringing them on board has been the single best decision I've made since opening.

Having said this, Dave, you owe me big for a certain customer who wandered into the store recently - that was quite the, umm, experience.

---

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Hey, Dave. Based on your hands-on experience with the prototype track bike pictured in AR's posting, did you decide to go with the garage-proof break-away seatpost on the 2007 model?

-Marc

Hi Dave...

You've dropped some pretty hefty hints. Thanks... I am starting to get a picture of what to expect, but in all seriousness - are you planning a roll out soon and if so when?

A pic would be great, but let me ask the logical follow on questions once Felt finally does release their new Uber-Bike. What are the (ballpark) price and availability?

Why I ask: I ride 2 Felts now (F35r and S22) and will probably be picking up a F1x this fall. I've obviously been pretty pleased with everything that's come out of your shop and am in the process of shopping for my next tri bike. If I can pick up the B2C (or whatever you decide to call it) in time to train and race Ironman CdA next June then I may hold off dropping kilo-bucks on a competitor.

thanks

Brian

Perhaps that was Felt 2003, but Felt 2006 is a different animal.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

If you buy the new Felt you won't need to train, it'll be self propelled.

A savvy searcher can find some images, the global launch is well orchestrated and won't come from some company peeon with enough time to post on an internet forum.

It'll be worth the wait. Aside from that promise, your Felt retailers can provide more insight that I can publically right now.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Self propelled, well that sucks it is no longer legal to race, no reason to buy it and I had already given my CC# to esmart to get production #00001. Just my luck.

---

"Here's to the finely tuned athlete on the verge of greatness"-Romeo, Tin Cup

Yeah, I maxed that CC out last week. But I did get receipts and IOUs which are as good as money in the bank. That one is a car...you might want to hold on to it.

I did a search and found some stuff about the Da Vinci Code. This is getting weird.....

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I just wonder if this move to carbon really pains poor Jim Felt given his Easton background. Guess he held out as long as possible before the carbon onslaught overtook him.

Funny how we all get squirmy and excited about a cf version of the B2. Is it suddenly going to be more than 2% faster than the AL version?

<< Is it suddenly going to be more than 2% faster than the AL version? >>

I'd be surpised if it was more than 0.02% faster than the AL B2. If at all...



I've passed a lotta CF wunderbikes on my boring 'old' B2. So either all those people are also running Tufos, and have sail-like positions (cuz mine is certainly not Bjorn-like, by any means), or, perhaps the P3C's, P2C's, Kaliburs, TTX's, et al just aren't actually any faster in and of themselves than any other decent tri bike out there.

---

float , hammer , and jog

LOL... one of the great pleasures in life is rolling past a $5000+ wonderbike on my aluminium S22, giving a smile and saying "looking good".

That being said... I want a CF wunderbike!

Dave,

I'm not sure what you are feeding Sean but after I hit him over the head to try to steal the picture of the new...uh...bike...he just stood there and looked at me like nothing happened. This release is so well orchestrated that even your reps are bullet proof right now. Great job! And, uh, I didn't see a thing...but I sure like the spy photos....

---

Ladera Cyclery...Gone but not forgotten..
F.I.S.T. Certified, UBI Trained Mechanic

I have nothing to add...just didn't want all this tomfoolery to go to waste by falling off the 1st page.

Come on SD...for all of us that can't go to Interbike, throw us a FREAKING BONE please!!!

---

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

Here here.. I got the F2 Team Issue right after xmas as well, and love the thing. Fit me like a glove, right off the rack. I'm dying to see the carbon TT bike. It will certainly be on the short list to replace my QR Caliente...

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gbassett.com

OK. I've seen the photo of the new Felt carbon fiber triathlon bike.

The only thing I am allowed to say is that Felt is introducing a carbon fiber triathlon bike.

Beyond that, I'm constrained by operational security.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tool!

Hey man, at least you know it isn't a rumor. FWIW, I am busting at the seams wanting to say more.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

this may be a bummer to you guys but, no. ive seen a drawing of it and it is sick. it has rear AND front wheel cut-outs. i work a a felt dealer and felt sent a round a packet of their new stuff (a womens line, FSR mounatin bikes and the carbon b2)

Dude, I'm just pissed off that I just bought a new bike and that only happens ever 4 years.

Just bought a P2c, a great bike, but that bike would have made my short list.



Let me guess what the bike looks like... hmm, flat black?

I think I can say this: I bought one today.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Ok, but when do you get it?

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Later....

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom you are truely a marketing genius. You should sell the shop and go work in corp America! You and your buddy Dave make a great team...and I can't wait to see the bike.

Can you show me a picture of your new bike?

As soon as I get it. You'll see the official release before then. About Interbike time I'm hearing.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Sounds like a copy of Look 496. Is it any lighter and does the wheels suck up to the frame closer than the Look 496.

Rex

Think- Look 496, QR Redstone, Alum. B2, and a little bit of something else thrown in. ;)

I just saw it yesterday. I am selling my 06 Chrono now as that thing is the sweetest bike I have EVER seen. Including on this forum.

When it is released, I think there might be a shift in threads on that canadian company to Felt.

Brian

www.fastsplits.com

"So how integrated is the new frame?

Integrated BB? Scott says some companies will be making that leap in 07.

Integrated Fork? Like Look but with tri geometry?

Integrated Seatpost? Again many road bikes are getting it in 2007

Brakes integrated or hidden like Oval's front tt brake but with a fork that is then redesigned in front?

Different frame widths like Walser? That would be about the biggest gamble, needing a proprietary front or rear wheel, although Shimano is making rear discs and cranks to fit walsers.
"

---

Maybe now is a good time to repost what I did on page one. How much of this stuff is on the frame? I think redesigned widths like Walser would be the most bold move. And an attempt at redesigning the fork area. Although I think BMC did a little fork stuff with Floyd without much change in Aerodynamics.

OK, Tom....you can't show a picture or even give a description...how about a ballpark price?

---

________________________________________________________________________
"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

Two Carbon models...

B2 Carbon $3500-$4000 range

DA Carbon complete w/ custom Zipps $6000+ range (I think?)

Both models will be sure to please. I've had my order placed for a run of these bikes for a while.

My problem is that I have such a big mouth on this forum a lot of people watch my posts like a hawk. I can't say a thing.

When I visited a bike company recently they removed all drawing and photos of their '07 products from their design facility before they would allow me in the room. They told me it took them an hour to get all the stuff off the walls and off their computer screens. Instead of showing me new stuff they showed me a bunch of concept stuff like cruisers and lifestyle bikes they knew would never go into production.

My cover is blown.

All I can say is that I have seen some representations of '07 bikes.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I get to debut it at this weekend's race, just finished puting one together. I'm very excited to get to finally hammer on one, stiffness and fatigue tests, wind tunnel data, and test riding prototypes are fine but the real test is real world.

-SD

What race? IM wisconson?

Watch out, sounds like bpq is ready to hop a plane to be at that race......wherever it may be.

My guess is Chicago...with all the bikes in that transition area anything can slip under the radar.

---

------------------------
Ride it like I stole it.

No Chicago but if you are in the greater Orange County area and happen to be in "the canyon" at this time you will see Super Dave shortly. He just left on a certain carbon bike. And I am so angry that there isn't one in my size available yet.

ah come on now, post a picture for my birthday.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Grab your camera, get on a plane, go to Irvine and look for the guy riding off the front. That's all I got for you.

Eric sucks! Eric sucks! Eric sucks! Eric sucks! ; )

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

---

Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

C'on Eric!! i don't want to wait for Interbike to see it, tell us what it's like.

---

Christian Riera
Transition-Area triathlon shop
FIST Certified Fitter
Ocean Ridge Florida
christian@transition-area.com

It'll be a while before the 48cm samples are in Eric, you have to wait. In the meantime, the carbon B2 won in its race debut this weekend, just like the first B2 did 17 years ago or so.



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

So where are the pictures?

---

This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

I guess you had to be there. There were a bunch of people taking pictures at the race, it was tough to be inconspicuous.



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

oh man! Prettty Weak. I may lust for Ti, but I don't mind getting a look at a carbon beauty!

---

This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

[reply]oh man! Prettty Weak.....[/reply]

Ya this whole thing has jumped shark, When you are already riding it at public races, but wont get an "unauthorized" picture posted (the car industry calls them "spy" photos) on a major enthusiest website, you kind of miss the point of hype and early adopters.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

I agree with davhamm- I was pretty intrigued at first, but now don't really care..

nice try with the b-grade marketing tactics tom d and 'super dave'..

I'm on board with the "jumped the shark" sentiment. At first, I was intrigued and excited to get a look at it. Now I"m just annoyed at the childish coyness. "Oh, we'll let people ride it at a public race, but if you're not fortunate enough to be there, too bad! Hahah, sucks for you."

Seriously, what the hell is the point of that?

I agree with the posters above me, I've since lost all interest in the B2 carbon.

I am ready for this thread to die off or see some pictures.

The backlash has begun...

---

Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

Yea, somewhat comical. Like I have anything to do with the orchestration of the release of the bicycle. Every detail is handled by the marketing department, testing is handled by PD, and I'm in sales, so I couldn't be further down the list. I can handle the backlash from ST much easier than the backlash from my boss if I don't follow the planned release. Eurobikes starts in a couple days in Germany, I'd be shocked if we made it though that without photos reaching the internet. Incidently, I haven't seen the new Kuota, Cervelo, Orbea, or Javelin TT bikes either.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Dave,

Congratulations on your win at an Iron Kids event. The great thing about riding one of the most aerodynamic bikes on the planet is that you might be able to keep up with us.

That joke's in poor taste, we'll have pictures by the end of the week with Eurobike.

PATIENCE..

It's in the new Triathlete mag, Page 32. Sweeeeeeeettt

Brian

Ridiculous yes...poor taste? I don't think you realize how badly we get crushed when riding with SuperDave.

Scan it and post it already!!!!

---

Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

Scan it and post it!

Must not have it then ...........

---

---------------------------
"This wheel definitely beat the 808 in this test, no question, and I do commend Hed on producing a really fast wheel...the wheel is fast, I am not disputing that." - joshatzipp on the Stinger 9
My Website
HEDmafia.com

Sorry guys I am at work and don't have a scanner here. It is actually on page 32 and an add for it on page 34-35. Maybe SuperDave can now put a pic. up since it is in Triathlete.....

---

Brian Hughes
http://www.fastsplits.com

Marketing and Sales in a world where information can spread immediately clearly presents challenges for any business.

Customers (us on ST, included) now have greater expectation for speed of information. The challenge is how to roll new products out on a timeline that your organization has already established when you a concurently doing testing, development work, etc. I guess your boss has a new product roll out plan that includes the upcoming trade shows in Europe and Las Vegas.

This marketing plan is most likely not unlike any new automotive company's new model release program. In the automotive world the some of the customers (automotive websites, automotive magazines, etc) PAY money for spy photos of new models.

So the question is how many of us on Slowtwitch would pay for spy photos on new bikes. Not sure this is in Slowman's budget.

---

Suffer Well.

Wow, such understanding of the other side of the coin is unheard of on ST. You are correct in many of your points as the global release of the product is not worthless.



Regards,

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

The absurdity of this situation, however, is that their not keeping the bike under wraps until it can be launched at a particular event, like Interbike, Eurobikes, or even a Triathlete mag article. If that was the case, I could understand it. You want to hype the event and make it a big deal while dropping teasers to get people interested. In this case it's being raced already, so this silliness of "Oh, I can't post a picture of a bike I rode at a well-populated race" is just dumb.

Damn... I did not finish my post before I hit Post.

Which was now that the photo is in Triathete mag, what is the point of "I've got a secret."

---

Suffer Well.

Just walked across the street to the bookstore and they still have last month's issue on stands. Damn.

Someone just scan this pic and post. Super Dave, if it is in the magazine can't you give us a pic?

---

---

Portside Athletics Blog

Here it is - apologies to SuperDave and Triathlete Mag. I would have scanned the 2-page spread but that is a pain in the ass on this scanner.

See trinity's post below for a cleaner shot.

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~~~~~~~
Do or do not there is no try.

Thanks for the pic. But count me as unimpressed.

It's got the silly front wheel cutout like the Look. I think BMC is the only one to effectively pull that off.

I see Zipp has found a way to actually make the decals larger? Who knew that was even possible ;-)

---

---

Portside Athletics Blog

Thanks for the pic.

Interesting that the bottom bracket appears to be above the seat tube, chainstay, down tube junction.

Hidden Rear brake looks well done.

Cool bike. Something that will have to be seen in person for full effect (like most bikes)

It is interesting that they put the waterbottle mount on the seatube and not the downtube.

opposite of the P2C

Anyone hear any pricing on this, I am ready to lay down my cash to get in line.

It depends on how you measure effective...we used a wind tunnel to measure it.



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

SOLD as is for about $10,000?

t~

I think that they estimate it at $7k in triathlete mag.

I am sure that more will be known as time moves on and SuperDave can talk about it more freely.

It does look pretty sweet. It will be interesting to see what other TT/Tri bikes come out at Interbike.

---

~~~~~~~
Do or do not there is no try.

I'd like to hear you and Gerard debate this topic (or the engineers from your respective companies). Not saying you are wrong or he is wrong. And I don't own a Cervelo or a Felt. But he has posted before about things like the integrated fork area on the TTX or front wheels cutouts as being ineffective. Maybe you guys figured it out, I don't know.

---

---

Portside Athletics Blog

I just got a call back from a dealer who said $7K and will be sold as seen only. The B2 will have carbon rear and will be offered without the Zipp 404 as sold previously.

I think the bike is very well done. They have taken a few things from different sources and made something well thoughout. The hidden rear brake looks very well done, internal cable with the entry behind the stem, horizontal drop-outs, rear wheel cut-out with it wrapping all the way up to the seat-stays, the bottom bracket raised, intergated forks and the sculpting on the down tube.

What I am disapointed in is that ugly seatpost clamping fiasco. I understand why it is done but it has to the one of the ugliest systems ever. I have not read the article but I would assume that the seat angle is around 75 degrees if one used a zero offset post. 78 in the forward position and 73 in the rear position. I am probably out a degree each way but still, why not use a better system to achieve what you are doing. I know that you would like to accomidate TT and Tri but why not offer a forward seatpost and a rearward seatpost and maybe a third with zero off-set. Such a nice bike made ugly by that seatpost.

Is this bike a Zelt or a Fipp?

They should of made it steeper. But it looks amazing regardless.

---

----------
Fortitudine Vincimus

Rear wheel cutouts are also uneffective and I never saw Gerard complain about that.

80 degrees as pictured.

---

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

So a seatpost with a rearward offset, another with a forward offset, and a dual position post would make sense to you?



Stay tuned.

---

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Where are you supposed to put your bento box on that thing?





(just kidding)

[GASP]

Somebody better put some STRAIGHT or S-BEND extensions on there QUICK! I mean, who still uses those slow, old school upturns anyways?

;-)

A better size for the screen.

---

----------
Fortitudine Vincimus

I will expand on my opinion a bit more with the seat angle information that you have posted. With the seat post that is offered why not just have it set up at 78 with a zero offset post. You could effectively move the seat forward enough to get 80 degrees. Especially since in the picture you have the seat in the most rearward position. If it was a zero offset post then the seat would be in the most forward position. I think that the dual postion post like used on this bike are personally ugly as all heck.

I do like 95% of what was done but I think the complete fit and finish are diminished with that seatpost clamp.

Dave. Who is this bike being marketed to. Triathletes or Roadies?

Both? If this is the case then were do you see most of your sales coming from. I just think for a bike that cost $7000.00 that when you go to get fitted maybe the company should offer a forward or rearward seatpost depending on what style of riding you are doing. Ideally I would just offer a zero offset post.

I would like to know more about why it was designed this way and what the thoughts were on the marketing of this bike.

Here's what I like about the bike:

1. Rear-wheel cutout
2. Super-clean cable routing
3. Looks like it has an adjustable look-style stem. if so, I like.
4. Look and BMC-style front fork.
5. Aero bottle on seat tube, where it gives the most benefit. However, I think you should have a second bottle on the downtube--- Two bottles plus a front aerobar bottle are useful for IM distance racing. Two bottles are useful for training.
6. Brakes above the BB--- That is a cool location for the rear brake. I've never seen it above the BB like that. Only concern here is maintenance. I look forward to seeing close-ups of that one. I wonder if they used the BB material to smooth airflow around that brake?
7. Zipp 808s are great, but I think they should go with clinchers. I don't believe that anyone makes consistently excellent tubulars available to amateur cyclists.
8. Cool handlebars! I did not know that Zipp was back making tri bars.

The only thing I don't like is the seatpost--- Wish I had one that was superclean and only supported the forward position.

That is one sweet bike! Nice job.

-Marc

This project was to create the fastest UCI legal bike, it is very tough to make a dedicated 78 degree bike UCI legal, in fact the seat angle varies with each size to maintain compliance as the height increases.


Again, you've only seen pictures, certainly you'd expect the stem to come in different sizes and configurations to suit different riders, correct? Wait until the full release as many of your issues will be solved.



Regards,

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I hope there's going to be a version w/o the fancy race wheels (already have 606s) and $1500 aerobars (I've seen and touched the Zipp bars...they are WAY nice but way over the top). Now, that would be cool.

---

Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

1. Rear-wheel cutout -NO BRAINER ON A SEAT TUBE THIS DEEP, WHAT YOU DON'T SEE IS THE 25MM FRAME WIDTH
2. Super-clean cable routing - ALSO WIND TUNNEL DEVELOPED, THE LOCATION ON THE ENTRY WAS A HUGE PROJECT
3. Looks like it has an adjustable look-style stem. if so, I like. - THIS IS TOTALLY UNIQUE, I'LL SHARE MORE ABOUT WHY/HOW SOON
4. Look and BMC-style front fork. - SEE STEM
5. Aero bottle on seat tube, where it gives the most benefit. However, I think you should have a second bottle on the downtube--- Two bottles plus a front aerobar bottle are useful for IM distance racing. Two bottles are useful for training. -YOU'LL BE ABLE TO CARRY TWO BOTTLES, AGAIN, YOU ARE LOOKING AT A PICTURE, NOT THE PRODUCT RELEASE FROM FELT
6. Brakes above the BB--- That is a cool location for the rear brake. I've never seen it above the BB like that. Only concern here is maintenance. I look forward to seeing close-ups of that one. I wonder if they used the BB material to smooth airflow around that brake? -HOW MUCH DO YOU WORK ON YOUR REAR BRAKE, EVEN BELOW THE BB LIKE THE HOOKER, ZIPP, AND PINARELLO THIS IS FASTER, THE BRAKE IS INSIDE THE SEAT TUBE, NOT BELOW THE BB
7. Zipp 808s are great, but I think they should go with clinchers. I don't believe that anyone makes consistently excellent tubulars available to amateur cyclists. - NOT THE WHEELSET FOR EVERYONE I AGREE, BUT SUITABLE FOR THE LARGEST POPULATION OF OUR CONSUMER OF THIS BIKE.
8. Cool handlebars! I did not know that Zipp was back making tri bars. - THIS IS BEST LEFT TO ZIPP, BUT AT SUB 700 GRAMS WITH L, STARIGHT, OR S/R BEND OPTIONS, THIS ADJUSTABLE BAR IS NEAR LIMITLESS IN CONFIGURATION, AND AT $1500 ALONE, IT IS AN AMAZING PIECE.

Regarding the single post clamp, you haven't seen the details on the bike, so reserve judgement. Like the L bend aerobars options are coming.

---

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

any word on geometry? Like specifically, what is the smallest 700c?

I gotta say, that thing looks good in all the right places.

---

-----
"I do my best to slay" - Matt Pike

That is what I was really curious about, why it wasn't deeper in some areas. Thats a good answer to my question though. Another reason a picture isn't the best way to see something

There's a big difference between a front wheel cutout and a rear wheel cutout. The front wheel turns sideways, making it much harder to optimize the airflow in all situations. We were probably the first company to have a bike with a front wheel cutout in the windtunnel (the Baracchi has the biggest front wheel cutout you can make), and the demands on the shape of the downtube are very, very tough. It can certainly be done, but I haven't seen anybody come close. It is sort of like fork blade spacing. Either you put the blades very far away from the wheel, or very close, but somewhere in the middle is usually quite bad aerodynamically. Same with a front cutout. Either you put it very close and really design the shape to pick up the airflow correctly in all common steering angles (which would be a shape nowhere near a traditional airfoil shape) , or you keep the downtube quite far away from it (which would be a normal, straight downtube with normal airfoil shape) so it can reattach the airflow. Anywhere in-between spells disaster (well, in the limited sense of not so good aerodynamics, in the grand scheme of things people will live).

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Like what I see, other questions as pic can't provide go enough clarity to determine.
Is the head tube standard meaning part of the frame (the way it looks) or like the Look track and tri frame where the head tube is integrated with the fork and moves with it.
Rear brake-how easy is it to swap out brake pads and center the brake on the wheel, basic maintanance? ask because at $15-25 dollars a pop for brake pads for carbon wheels I prefer not to use them on my aluminum rim training wheels?
Any chance you are going with a 1" steerer since this bike is all about aerodynamics?
I love the adjustable stem, since it is all about fit on your bike this is key, and that you will be putting two bottle mounts on the frame.
Look forward to seeing it in person and mayberiding it.
Branden

---

"Here's to the finely tuned athlete on the verge of greatness"-Romeo, Tin Cup

52cm is the smallest size with 700c As pictured in the tri position, the seat angle is 79.65 degrees and the top tube is 50.3 cm.

-Regards,

SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

The head tube is standard, not like the Look or BMC, if you get to Kona and your fork gets crushed, just drop in a Easton, or any 1" fork and you can still race albeit without the Bayonet Integrated Advantage.

The rear brake pad inserts can be removed with the rear wheel removed.

The steerer on the DA is non-exsistant, it is external and closer to 1.6" in cross section, about 30% stiffer than a 1.125" alloy steerer. The head tube will accept a 1" fork.

Loads of subtle details here, seeing it in person is certainly the way to experience them all.

I forgot to add the one major thing I don't like about the new Felt--- It makes me want a new bike. I already started running scenarios through my head about how to approach Mrs. Kase--- When I run them through to the end I get one of three outcomes: (a) My wife realizes that all of the proceeds from her part-time job have just funded my new tri bike and then proceeds to kick my ass. (b) My wife figures out that the Felt "beach cruiser" I just bought cost $7,000 and kicks my ass. (c) I buy the bike, run away from home and start riding it 24 hours a day, my wife tracks me down and kicks my ass.

I think that that machine is going to cause a new wave of strife through the working-class families of Slowtwitch. . . Does DA stand for "Divorce Assured?"

-Marc

Well, you make a good point expressing your understanding of why the seatpost is a dual position model. I'll add to the list of reasons why I think this is a good idea:

• There is a succesful precedent for a multi-geometry seatpost construction in the industry already.
• The multi-geometry design gives customers something they think they want: Versatility. Whether or not they will go between a slacker and steeper seat configuration is tough to say. I wager they won't. Their fitter will likely position them steep and leave it at that. However, the flexibility to choose is something I think is wise to design in and something consumers will appreciate.
• Who knows where saddle design will go or what a customer will want to use. If a guy wants to use an ISM Adamo they will likely need it positoned in the rearward clamp even if they sit steep. You sit off the nose of this type of saddle. Also, with several new 30cm long saddles (as opposed to more tradtional 27cm saddles) such as the Profile Tri Stryke and the Fizik Arione Triathlon the chances of actually using the rearward clamp are actually reasonable for riders with a really long femur.
• From a sales perspective and for Felt dealers, this adds a lot of versatility that makes the dealer comfortable with flooring more bikes. He feels (somewhat rightfully so) that he can adjust the geometry. This means the bike has a wider "fit band" and one bike isn't married to a given geometry or fit philosophy. Imagine the controversy if the thing just had a fixed 78 degree seat angle with an aero, zero setback seatpost... People would freak.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I'm glad they didn't put "S" bends on their. And Faris Al Sultan had pretty good luck with traditional bend aerobars at a little race in Hawaii last year....

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

wow, the angle of the chainstays is very 'interesting', or strange. i would imagine it has something to do with the unusual rear brake mounting ? and, from what i can see (not much), it appears that there is a bit of a rat's nest behind the chainrings. it will be interesting to see it in person ...

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

Good observation. You'll also notice the bottom bracket of the frame is well below the crank bottom bracket. This is a continuation of the wheel cut-out under the wheel. Interesting.

For what it's worth, we actually hve orders for three of these bikes already.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

can you tell us the retail for the bikes on order?

I'm glad they didn't put "S" bends on their. And Faris Al Sultan had pretty good luck with traditional bend aerobars at a little race in Hawaii last year....


Are you glad they put an aerobar on the bike that jacks the price up $1,000 over what a good Vision or Profile bar would cost?

Regarding the Faris comment...c'mon, gimme a break. No one won or lost an Ironman because of the bend of their aerobar extensions, Faris had good luck because he was the best athlete that day, not because of his bars.

---

---

Portside Athletics Blog

Thanks for the explanation, I knew I had read you talking about this before.

I'll be curious to hear Super Dave's response.

---

---

Portside Athletics Blog

Response to what?

If kept at its full depth, the downtube would hit the front wheel, we've interupted it so the front wheel fits. We've also got a much deeper aspect ratio on the headtube itself. There is so much going on with the front of this bicycle that simple cycling fashion can be ignored. The small gap you see is of little consequence when on the trailing edge of the spinning wheel. The rear cut out is on the leading edge. The same goes for the brakes, both on the leading edge. The entire rear surface of the bicycle has a sharp trailing edge with an aspect ratio greater in the horizontal plane greater than the UCI allows for. There isn't so much as a binder bolt or rear brake to interfere with the surface. In the tunnel we ran the downtube all the way to the front tire and it made no difference in drag. However, lowering the downtube and allowing for the wheel to tuck in allowed an increase in the aspect ratio in the horizontal plane, a figure not regulated by the UCI. Also worth noting is the width of the bicycle, it simply disappears behind the fork. You really much see it side by side against other bicycles to appreciate how narrow it is. We took lots of other fast bicycles into the tunnel to help develop the airflow models for this bike. Old defunct seatstayless designs like the SBII and Lotus were resurrected and run through the tunnel.

-SD

I've been asked to let Felt handle the release of official information regarding their '07 line-up.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

First off, Dave...great looking bike! I'm sure you'll sell all you can get your frame vendor to make!

Here's what disappoints me, however--using your own words from a very old post you made a long time ago: It would be really cool if someone would make the fastest bike possible--UCI rules be damned.

Why not you guys?? What % of people on this board do UCI races? (USAT doesn't follow them, right??).

I know, from a marketing perspective, UCI-legal has some cache, but you guys are perfectly situated (not too big, not to small) to make the leap.

Unless, of course, they want to leap into Pro Tour-type sponsorship - in which case they'd need a UCI legal bike...hmmmmm.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

We are very committed to pursuing the goal of creating the most aerodynamic bicycle period. The UCI still plays a huge roll in marketing bicycles, I won't connect the dots for you, but without compliance, the product languishes as invalid.

I suspect that less than 1% of the current buying population have to adhere to UCI rules, and 99% of them buy UCI legal bicycles.



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

well the bike pictured is a "no holds barred" setup so they obviously went all out on the spec. I'm sure the lower spec'd, or shall we call them "realistically" spec'd bikes will have more cost effective aerobars and wheels.

That being said, who wants to see a boring normally spec'd bike on ST expecially after all the hype that built up on this frame. I want to see hot pimped out bikes like this!

I hope so, someone said they called a dealer though and that was the only setup that was going to be available.

On another note...so you haven't gone to bed yet and I am up and headed out for my morning ride?

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Portside Athletics Blog

Out of interest Dave, you you tell us how much better the new frame is compared to the old B2 one?
I know that it's an unfair question, you obviously want to create demand for the new bike but what really does all this aero tweaking get us?
Thanks in advance,
SteveMc

hey working late cutting wheel decals and working on some replica bikes actually...

the spec sheets that I saw suggested that it'll be availible in a full range of spec. Actually the price range I saw looked TOO full and I'm guessing it was just an early season guess.

I guess offering only one build would be in a way making a statement about how top notch Felt thinks this bike is but I'm sure in real life it'll be offered in the typical 105/ultegra/da type groupings. And if it follows the trend set by other Felt carbon bikes we'll see stepped down more affordable versions with cheaper carbon layups as well as the top end pricier bikes. Felt is a genius in selling fast bikes across their entire price range, I doubt they'll screw it up here;)

I liked Dave's answer to the down tube cutout, I never thought of it as a necessity so that the downtube won't hit the wheel... Looks cool to me though now that I've seen it a few times (a bit weird at first) and hey looks is half of what sells bikes these days;) Otherwise we'd all be riding the same bikes we bought a few years ago!

Am i the only one wondering where the B2 is? We've seen the DA, now where's the new B2? Is there indeed a new B2, or have you brought back the DA to replace it?

(Am i missing something here?)

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blood, sweat...and big gears

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali

I like it but how much more is the frame/fork compared to a PC3? I think anything over $3100 would be a bit overpriced.

Dave in VA

[reply]Am i the only one wondering where the B2 is? We've seen the DA, now where's the new B2? Is there indeed a new B2, or have you brought back the DA to replace it?

(Am i missing something here?)[/reply]

I think somewhere a page or two back it mentioned that the DA will be carbon while the B2 will maintain the aluminum frame/carbon rear triangle. Dunno if the B2 will change at all while keeping those materials or if it will remain unchanged.

B2 is the same frameas the DA (carbon and all), different fork, dura ace, and I'll leave out the rest of the spec because I doubt they want everything out there right now (if you read carefully, I'm not writing anything that hasn't been revealed already, so I'm safe). The price on the B2 is absolutely unbelievable - shocking to me, really, and I'll just say it backs up Slowman's pondering about the Giant Trinity Alliance 1's price point (read his article for an idea on that). The DA is outstanding, but the B2 will be the big seller.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Since you said it first, I'll just confirm that I've also heard the same thing...specifically, that the B2 frame will be full carbon, just a different lay-up than the DA. I haven't heard anything about specs, however. I'm just hopingthat it'll be possible to get the DA/B2 as a frameset or with a scaled-down Dura-Ace kit. See my earlier post about the DA's wheelset and aerobars.

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

I agree with you. Sounds like maybe the B2 will be what people like you and are looking for. Different layup carbon (like the Seduza vs. the Lucero) but still the aero frame and without $3,300 worth of wheels and aerobars.

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Portside Athletics Blog

Oops, forgot to mention the different carbon lay-up. The B2 will be spec'd very well for it's price point, but reasonable. Great, great bikes.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

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Fortitudine Vincimus

If the prices are right (and they're Felt's, so that's pretty much a given), those bikes are gonna kill it at the dealers this year.

Very nice, all of 'em.

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float , hammer , and jog

Wow, the B2 may be better looking than the DA with a set of race wheels on it, if it had the new front end(steer tube/fork) on it. It'll be interesting to see where the S32 ends up for price point considering the utter lack of competition the Tri bike world has at under $1600.

So what good does/did it do to increase the "aspect ratio" of the front wheel+downtube if it made no difference in drag? IOW, why not just run the downtube a little higher like almost all other bikes, versus bringing it closer to the front wheel and thus necessitating a "cut out"?

HOLY Sugar those are purdy.

Not much change in pricing - except for the B2, but it's going in a direction you wouldn't expect.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Do you have a pic of the DA you can post? I know it's already up but I'd like to see the front end with better resolution.

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

I really don't . All of these photos are from Felt's European website. The best one I could find is no better than the ones already posted.

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Fortitudine Vincimus

There will be more configurations for this frame. What retailer do you shop from that won't allow you to select your own aerobar for your new bike?



-SD

Because you can cheat the rules. The downtube's angle of attack was already increased as we lowered it below the BB to additioanlly shround the rear wheel. We had airflow unlike any other tested bike with this fork, the front end went through countless revisions to utilize all that this feature had to offer.



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

$3100? That'll be close. I think the price of the B2 will have everyone dumbfounded.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I've looked and can't find it..what's Felt's European website?

http://www.felt.de/...p?home_international

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Fortitudine Vincimus

http://www.felt.de/....php?de_triathlon_07

Perfect, thanks a lot!

Interesting geometry, especially the STA as it goes from 52 to 54 then up to 60.

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

OK...dumb question but what is the difference between the DA and B2. From the pix they look a bit similar.

The modulus of the carbon used varies. The DA gets a hybrid blend, and of course the Bayonet Integrated front end on the DA completely changes the bike's leading edge as well.



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

So will this be available as a frameset only? I certainly hope so, but I'm not optimistic.

Call me dumb, but I still don't understand. Lowering the rear end of the downtube would reduce, not increase, the chord, at least as measured parallel to the ground. Moreover, you said previously that how the downtube was positioned had no impact on the drag...so what am I missing?

No need to connect the dots--I've been in the industry long enough....

Still, I think it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy that a product is "invalid" if it's not UCI compliant. That's not the real reason Softride went belly-up!

How did your bike fare against the Lotus you have in the tunnel??

when you have a bike sitting under your desk that is four sizes too big, anyone could crush you. Oh, wait, what am I saying, I don't have abike to ride right now either. Bring your cross bike over, I'll cable it up for you.

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Ladera Cyclery...Gone but not forgotten..
F.I.S.T. Certified, UBI Trained Mechanic

SD-

Thanks for the touchy/feely on the '07 bikes yesterday, especially the DA and B2, but I'm super excited about the entry level models as well. This whole line-up is rediculous!

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Ladera Cyclery...Gone but not forgotten..
F.I.S.T. Certified, UBI Trained Mechanic

Esmart can't go anywhere without getting abused, I love it.

I would never call you dumb AG, please keep in mind, I am the stupidest guy on staff here at Felt so if I fall short of adequate explanation in my answers, it wouldn't be for lack of information or accuracy, rather lack of acumen. You are correct that by lowering the rear of the downtube to further hide the leading edge of the spinning rear wheel the resultant drop also decreases the horizontal aspect ratio, so to get that back we lowered the front of the downtube. As we did so the front wheel gets in the way. We've left it at the full cross section in models, and dropped it further in others. We've got tests with the downtube literally on the tire, and tests with the larger gap you see here that made production. We are talking about small gains here, just slightly lower drag than testing tolerance, but repeatable and measured nonetheless.





-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Okay, I got it now: the purpose of the "dropped" downtube isn't to improve the aerodynamics at the front of the bike, but at the rear. So that raises another question: were the wind tunnel tests conducted with a pedaling rider on the bike? Obviously, behind/below the whirling feet is one place where an interaction between the bike and the rider seems likely.

But you're the SECOND best looking.

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"....No longer easy on the eyes but these wrinkles masterfully dusguise the youthful boy below."~Death Cab for Cutie

http://www.a1cyclery.com

I think I've lost something in the ignorant to intelligent translation. Body on bike is of course a huge part of development and one of the largest factors leading to the shape of the front of the Bayonet.



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era