They really hyped this as a BIG announcement

Personally couldn’t care less

The race last year was great

The only thing I am thinking: just another World Championship on the list....

The “funny” thing here is that the PTO athletes are forced to race the PTO WC regarding their contract.

Looks more and more like a competitor to IM than an athletes organisation.

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Morten Falk Størling
Blog l Instagram l Facebook

I've watched the Pros the last two years. It seemed they really enjoyed the event by playing in the water, (Starky did the butterfly to the first buoy and held onto Lucy Charles legs for a bit as well). Then they hammered the bike and the run seemed to be the race. You can stand along the lake sideways to watch the swim and T1 is just a simple 180° turn to watch them mount the bike. It seemed like a relaxing great way to end the year for the Pros. I think money has a way of building but also ruining some things though. The race distance is also shorter than a 70.3 for the Pros. That's a lot of money for a modified Olympic/Half Triathlon. Maybe because events were cancelled this year, Challenge/PTO has to burn off some cash to prevent paying taxes? Regardless, we are excited and booking our hotel. I'll be racing the 70.3 and watching the Pros.
IMFL 70.3 rescheduled for the weekend before Challenge Daytona so a lot of people were automatically transferred to that date. Not sure how that will affect athletes racing Challenge Daytona.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

What is the middle distance protocol with regards to distances?

Im interested what Canadian and European racers will do because given 🇺🇸 and especially Florida management of COVID i would suspect 14 day mandatory quarantine upon arriving back home...ie: through Christmas.

Basically the race may just be an event for 🇺🇸 PROS or expats living in Tuscon and Cali!

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@rhyspencer

The distances for the pros this year, if they happen, are not the same as last year

If you look at 75% of my posts, I point out that the PTO is not an athlete's association. It is an event promoter. And considering how in bed Challenge is with the them, how hard is challenge going to bank on having Pros? Is the PTO going to negotiate a CBA with Challenge? Probably not since the Chair of Challenge is on the "business" board of the PTO.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

They have yet to articulate any realistic, sustainable business model.

- The idea that they could hold a race for the Pros and pull in millions of broadcast revenue is a pipe dream (just look at Hyvee, Island House, ITU WC, etc.).

- They aren't asking the Pros to pay in anything.

- The money they got from private equity to act as leverage in a WTC transaction was a one-time deal (esp. now that WTC has been sold).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Their concept that the PTO is analogous to ATP just doesn't work.

- Major tennis tourneys are pro-only events. Just like NFL or MLB, it's literally all about the pros. Triathlons are participant events, more analogous to marathons.

- Tennis makes its $$$$ mostly from TV (broadcast rights, and sponsors willing to pay big bucks due to the broadcast/media reach). Triathlon makes its money off AG participants (and the sponsors trying to reach them).

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

All of this, plus the focus on long distance triathlon means it's never going to get any viewership. Does anybody seriously think the PTO is going to succeed?

Well as an cou terargument do you think the top 20 pros in the world would all have sig ed up if they think g that is a flash in the pan.
I have no idea if pto will succeed but I think what they are doing right now is good for the sport as it shakes things up.
If we imagine 70.3 worls would happen this year it would be only an age group world's as all the big names are going g to tace in daytona
what pto seems to try is to try to race the profile of pros which is needed ( if it works is to be seen )

If they really had enough money to buy ironman I would think to invest their money this way could be cheaper.
The biggest issue I see only Roth could be the full world champ and Felix has always said this was not going to happen but I dare to say this killed challenges expansion as they won't get a full race off the ground unless they had slots for Roth and back then wirh out the investor the races that worked ironman bought the race .
If that was changed ie Roth the challenge world champs I could see it work
so I guess it's 4 things
how much money and for how lo g does the investor have and do they find a way to make is sustainable ( difficult but in some countries it can work )
can they keep the pros on board and promote them so the can promote the races
Can they convince Roth to become a quali event or make it a 2 day event
what is ironman going to do. Are they going to sit it out or lime in frankfurt where they have to pay good appearance fees to get the top pros go that route . I think it's probably the first time in a while ironman loos a bit vulnerable ( I think most people agree it was not a good value deal for the new buyer and the timing g could not have een rose to buy a company with so much debt just before most of the season was wiped out.
I think at the end of the day regardless if you like ironman or not competiton is good

Of course they would have. They literally just gave the top 20 athletes a bunch of free money. How is it shaking things up? The collins cup has been theorized for YEARS and still not happened. I saw the PTO contract, they're doing nothing to raise the profile of pros, they're raising the profile of themselves.

No way they had the money to buy ironman. No way they have 1/100th the money needed to buy ironman. At the end of the day, their investor is going to realize theres no return in a couple years and bail. Sorry if i'm being overly negative, but its been pretty clear that there's a very limited viewership market for long course triathlon, and the PTO has yet to actually do anything with sustenance

I don't think they can or will continue to dump the money like they have been. I don't think that is their long term business plan. I think this is more of a "Go Big or Go Home" introduction. Create a bunch of fireworks and hope the fire stays lit. They don't come off as a bunch of dummies so I'm sure they have a plan and I'm positive they don't need us knowing what the details are

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

There is a podcast called the real triathlon podcast and the first one. is about pto
Worth a listen . And of course it could all go tits up soon , but this is not the organisation from the first few years this year they have stepped up at least 2 levels and I think most people would agree .... that covid is not the pots fault as the race was on this year.

I would agree with the contract not great but at the end the fact is now it's not a pronorganisation it's now more a investor pro and at the moment challenge joint venture
iam sure one can punch ,any holes into it but I think there will be 170 or pros that will be kind happy pto exists this year.
Me thinks the whole thing could work if challenge ge Roth would be the world champ and they could built qualifyer races around mit . But Felix always said no to this and I would suggest that was a part why the challenge ge expansion did not work
challenge could have worked in Europe they had besides Roth great races with barcelona Copenhagen and 1 year Victoria

Besides what is ironman going g to do now they are effectively hosting the amateur world champs in Taupo this year ( if it was to happen )
in germay when Roth went indy they started to pay good appearance fees for frankfurt so that was positive for pros . So ironman could do the same for the world's or just see it out if they think like you it won't last long.

Well...


It's a *go*...


Thoughts?

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Florida. COVID-19. FUCK THAT.

I'm so tempted. I know I shouldn't... but damn.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Imagine NOT attending this race and still thinking you can call yourself a triathlete

I skipped early season races and even several recent races but if they race, I'll race. I'm registered.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

+1
Every place that tries to be too aggressive in opening up learns the hard way. (ex. https://www.usatoday.com/...-classes/3383874001/)


I wonder how this would even work for the international athletes. The US is still on travel restriction lists, and by the time of the race the most easing would probably be a mandatory 14-day quarantine when you fly back.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Was there some announcement somewhere

I disagree about not raising the profile of the pros. I think they are definitely doing more than Ironman to promote pros. Lots of good content on IG for example.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

What is so tempting? It’s 3.5 months away. How can any race organization say “it’s on” with any confidence at this point??

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blog

Yes, Challenge CEO issued a statement it’s on.

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Let food be thy medicine...

I don’t know what the work arounds are, but plenty of pro athletes in other sports have been able to do it.

The challenge (pun) is that this is a single event (vs the cycling season happening in Europe) and traithon isn't so lucrative (vs MLB, NFL, NBA) that they can throw virtually unlimited resources at things. Similar to the way that there is a question if D1 football can happen, but D2/D3 was cancelled without a thought since there is no big TV revenue to play with/at stake.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Agreed. I actually think, at least for pro triathletes, controlling a “bubble” would be very easy. But, given the low economic value in triathlon, I understand why it doesn’t make sense for the events to occur for pros alone.

It's tempting to fantasize about racing for 3 months and to be greeted with a "oh, sorry, our bad---we can't race," email in late November.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

If that's what you fantasize about, you need to get laid.

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blog

I'm thinking the same thing! I might just add this to the calendar on Training Peaks without telling coach. See if he realizes it.

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202

I suppose the second post should have been in pink.

But I genuinely thought about it for all of two hours. Then realized how poorly FL has managed this whole scenario since March, and cooler heads prevailed. Back to the 2020 status quo.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Don’t know what this means for the odds of the race happening, but the Governor of Florida tweeted this: https://twitter.com/...715174482096138?s=21

The difference between this race and all the other races is that this is taking place 100% on private property. If Challenge wants the race to go forward they have little in the way of government to get in there way. There is no fear of the city/state pulling permits at the last second because as far as I am aware they do not need any.

Or at least fantasize about it.

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***

The middle distance bike course goes outside of the track and onto public roads so I don’t believe this is correct. However, they could change the bike course to be just inside the track but not sure if that will cause too much traffic on the course as I think there are other races going on. So while they may be able to remove the local permit hurdles, I still think there is minimal chance this race happens.

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blog

PTO Wild Cards added Vincent Luis and Kristen Blummefelt. Looks like this will be the diesels verse the turbos. I'll put my money on Luis for OA win.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

That's awesome. But will they accept it and can they even get into the US?

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blog

Saw on Luis' insta a couple of weeks ago he finally got a Shiv, so looks like he wants to race. Unless he's planning to do some other non-draft race.

What Sean said. Luis has been posting pictures of his bike. I have to imagine PTO reached out to these guys to see if they'd accept, before announcing it.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

How many other wildcard slots will be awarded?

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

8 more males / 8 more females

1 of them (per gender) will be awarded at the Trigames Mandelieu (France).

Idem, another one of them per gender will be awarded at the Great Floridian Triathlon.

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- Antony Costes -
PhD in Biomechanics / Professional Triathlete (9 pro wins)

"If you cannot measure it, you cannot improve it."
Lord Kelvin

https://www.instagram.com/...b_button_share_sheet


Interesting that he went with/was given the Shiv Tri and not the Shiv TT

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Matt

He said he was doing Daytona in his post-race interview at Arzachena. Should be a very interesting race to watch. I really hope they figure out a great way to get this broadcasted.

I think you have that backwards........

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I am really hoping for great coverage and live streaming. This race is potentially the most competitive race ever in the history of Triathlon if all parties are able to race. IM greats 70.3 champs and ITU champions now with Luis and Blummenfelt. I hope Sam Long, Gustav Iden, and Rudy Von Berg also get wild cards.
I would think Alastair and Luis would be favorites but what an exciting race potential on so many levels

Ehhh.... I hope im wrong but I think it's a pretty boring race until the run.

If you cant swim, I just cant see how anyone can be competitive at this distance. There are too many ace swims on the start list and it's a pancake flat bike. No one is going to be able to close the gap out of the chase and will be hard to break away.

Are they actually going to enforce the drafting distance?

You don't think a Lionel or a potential Sam Long puts time into the guys first out of the water?

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

No, it’s a Shiv Tri with but with the rear hydration storage removed. There are a few ‘tells’
- the downtube storage
- the fork (deeper as well as the ‘legs’ being separate from the head tube where they meet the base bar)
- the area under where the seat stays meet the downtube. On the Shiv TT there is a gap between the downtube and rear wheel. On the Shiv Tri there is not

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Matt

Ok that’s good. But how are any of the Europeans getting into the USA? Isn’t there a travel ban or at least a 14 day quarantine mandate?

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blog

I mean maybe, but at best they bridge up only to get railed on the run, I find it unlikely they ever actually see the front of the race.

You not watch ITU or 70.3 worlds?

They say they are coming for the MAGA rally in Florida. Special rules apply.

This race has all the long distance guys too. Most IM guys dont race 70.3 worlds.

I'm sure there is a way since the Challenge team is also coming over. We had some people traveling into the US at work. If they flew into Florida they would have to quarantine. Instead, they flew into Texas then from Texas to Florida. I'm not sure of all the specifics regarding Europeans today.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

That will be the problem for long course athletes. ITU guys train enough to smash those guys at this distance. Totally different outcome if it was a 140.6, with Long Course athletes dropping the ITU guys over time (imo). But, it's not. I'm excited to see ITU speed in person.

How is the $1,000,000.00 being distributed? I can't find anything on Challenge or PTO websites. 20 deep? 40 deep?

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

I agree, but a fun dynamic with all the levels and so much prize money. 3 hours of all out racing. Im wondering the same with the division of money if top 10 still gets a nice chunk.

Well the challenge for European based folks is that they can't fly directly into the US. If they have spent 14 days in most of the EU countries, they are not allowed in. But that can be overcome by spending 2 weeks in Turkey or Dubai if they really want to go
Most European countries don't have a mandatory 14 day quarantine at a designated facility. Most are advise to "self isolate" for 14 days.
It explains alot about the situation there today

Lol no. Like them both. But they lose contact 200m into the swim and never see the front of the race again.

This field is far too loaded. They'll both lose at least 2-3' on the swim and that pack will be flying on the bike. Plenty of better runners in the field too.

Gustav Iden also got a wild card.

This is going to be fun

2nd set of wildcard picks...

Iden, Don
Duffy, Learmonth

Long distance athletes are going to get throttled.

Is there a full list of invites somewhere?

https://app.challengedata.io/...nge-daytona/starters

Most European countries don't have a mandatory 14 day quarantine at a designated facility. Most are advise to "self isolate" for 14 days.
It explains alot about the situation there today


Obviously the situation everywhere is rather fluid right now - predicting what things will be like in a month and a half is a bit of a mugs game!

Look what happened in Pro Cycling - Paris Roubaix, one of the most legendary races in all of Cycling, was cancelled a week and a half out from the race! ONLY World Wars have ever stopped that race form happening!!

Now, my understanding is this race in Daytona at the Daytona Speedway takes place for the most part on the private property of the Daytona Speedway, and it's Florida - which clearly as a State, has not been taking the COVID-19 situation seriously in any way. Staying away from the politics of it all - If athletes can get in the country, if a race can still be put on no matter what, this is it. In fact, I think I seem to recall the Race Director saying he has guaranteed, that this race will be a go!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

It wasn't just the RD, it was literally the Governor of Florida who specifically said the race was a go.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

The entire race is on private property, for the pros. AG race has the bike in/out of speedway. Swim and run on private property.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

The entire race is on private property, for the pros. AG race has the bike in/out of speedway. Swim and run on private property.


This is an important distinction. In this transitional time before we get back to "normal" in the Endurance Sports Race/Event Business, it will be a VERY important distinction. Ounce you are out onto public roads, you will be subject to local municipality permit regulations, which might possibly be far more restrictive.

However, obviously this has it's limits. You can't have the Boston Marathon, or the Gran Fondo New York, or the IRONMAN World Championships on Private Property.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

That list doesn't include the elites.

Steve F. Were our Can. championships on priv. property?

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

No pto Fields om that lidt

English?

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Whoops sorry! The link only lists AG athletes not the pros invited by PTO, which is what I'm after.

Sorry.

The top 40 in the PTO rankings are automatically invited. The ranking list they have on their site is from March though, so not sure if that is up to date.

https://thecollinscup.com/pto-world-rankings/

You can check their Instagram acct for the wild card announcements. So far these are the wild cards:

Women: Taylor-Brown, Spirig, Duffy, Learmonth
Men: Luis, Blummenfelt, Iden, Don

..
Here is the list on the PTO website..


https://protriathletes.org/pto-2020-championships-automatic-qualifiers/?fbclid=IwAR2zn1Lc8BW5T6Uah1EFUpLLo_JLMhHsoUTIqg5uq6xozTekj50Yr00OaLE

..

I don't see how the private/public distinction serves to provide any meaningful difference. Businesses are still subject to mask mandates, for instance. Sure, I can choose to disregard a mask mandate in my house, but once you're opening up for business, in this case to host a public event, why would it be granted immunity?

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

I don't see how the private/public distinction serves to provide any meaningful difference. Businesses are still subject to mask mandates, for instance. Sure, I can choose to disregard a mask mandate in my house, but once you're opening up for business, in this case to host a public event, why would it be granted immunity?


100% Correct.

But the whole permitting process for Public vs Private, in this case roads (and land) is completely different and you can do things (maybe more people??), on the private land vs the public roads. I know that right now getting any sort of permit for some form of Endurance Sports Race/Event pretty much anywhere in North America, on Public Roads is a complete 100%, no way, NO!

But you could set up, say a 5km loop in the parking lot of a large plaza or Shopping Mall, or private gated community, and do things you could not do on the open public roads. In fact this is exactly what many of the themed runs like the Color Run did in their explosive growth 12 years ago - they would run them in the parking lots of Shopping Plazas and do a bit of an end-around on the local Permiting process for the public roads!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I see Sarah True is still not in on the PTO, despite her commenting on one of her Instagram posts that she would love to race Daytona.

One side or both sides holding a grudge or have a chip on their shoulder because surely she is one of the top 10 if not 5 women in the long course world?

Steve, I think you make good points on the ability to get permitting. I would extend that variability to different governmental bodies.

For example, Indiana seems to be much more “open” than Michigan for racing. The Michigan races I did all had hard caps and fairly specific protocols in place. I think by September the Indiana races were uncapped. Still some COVID protocols, but not to the level of Michigan.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

This is a Challenge family race so a 20 meter draft zone if I am not mistaken, so this will not be an ITU style huge bike pack with the front pack swimmers. And the 20 meter draft zone is much bigger than Kona so don't see the benefit of a group dynamic, unless I am mistaken????

The PTO as currently funded is not an athlete's Union, the "members" are not funding it. Michael Moritz gave them some cash, but they likely burn through that shortly. Also, as part of the "membership" they make you put their logo on your kit and you don't get remunerated for that.

For me...like why is Sam Long and Gustav Iden a wild card selection? They should have gotten invites anyways. And uh, why are there even "wild cards"?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

More wildcards announced: https://protriathletes.org/...ldcard-announcement/

Jonny Brownlee
Lisa Norden
Henri Schoeman
Angela Naeth

What’s the prize for 1st male and female?

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I dont think I’ve ever seen Vincent Luis or J Brownlee on a TT bike. Do they even own one?

If everyone shows up this will be an incredible race.

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Let food be thy medicine...

I would bet you $1,000 this race happens. And yes they will all get into the country they all have been sent a special form to fill out. Them and 1 additional person from DHS.

I won’t argue that this race happens or not. Though one thing that no one is talking about is the unpredictable weather we can have in florida in December. Don’t be surprised if that’s a factor like it was a few years ago. Would hate to see so many great athletes travel all that way for the race to be significantly altered.

Glad to hear the international travel won’t be an issue. Hopefully that doesn’t change between now and the race.

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blog

She didn’t exactly finish many races in 2019... a 2nd at tremblant and a 6th at Oceanside in ‘19. 2nd at Campeche right before Covid shutdowns this spring.

Only the top-40 are invited directly, and neither Sam Long or Gustav Iden are ranked top-40. The ranking is based on the 4 best results ("best" based on their formula) from the last 2 years. Here is an explanation of the ranking: https://protriathletes.org/.../#rankings-explainer

Fourth Picks: Sam Long, Magnus Ditlev, Renee Kiley and Danielle Dingman.

Super stoked to see Sam get in. Renee Kiley is a newcomer, but I really love her story. I follow Magnus on IG, and don't know too much about him, but some of the numbers he posts are incredibly impressive.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Johnny has an older picture on IG from the Beijing International. I assume it is a Plasma. Vincent has a recent IG pic where he’s getting a new Shiv.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team