I just signed up for the free trial. Did my FTP test, I might need to find a USB extender since I had a couple of dropouts.

It honestly wasn’t quite as horrible as I thought it would be

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I’ve done the FTP test and the first ride now. If I want to jump in a race or group ride tomorrow, what do I need to know How do I know if I’m an A B C or D? Or will zwift tell me where I should be?

Virtual power put me at 268 FTP. No actual pm to compare to, and I’ve replaced the fluid in the trainer, so calibration is an issue, but it’ll be consistent if not accurate.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

From my limited Z-racing experience, C.

IF you want to check times/power you can always snoop around https://www.zwiftpower.com/

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Been on Zwift for 2 weeks so still working things out.


Depends more on your w/kg than absolute watts. Most races or group rides will have an indication though that shows the range of FTP for each batch.

Most likely you would be B or C unless you are a strong rider (above 4.0w/kg....then you'd be A).

At this point Zwift will not. They are working on implementing features that will tell you if you are entering the wrong category, but right now that is in beta and is only be used for select events. If you have a decent idea of your ftp, divide by weight in kgs. If it’s between 3.2 and 4.0, enter B, if it’s less, enter C, if it’s over , enter A.

Cs and Ds have much more of a sandbagging problem than Bs and As. Use zwiftpower, it makes the race results more enjoyable. But if you don’t want to sign up for zwiftpower, racing on Zwift can still be fun, but I’d recommend doing races that start the cats separately, that way you can race your peers. They way you can tell is when you open the race in the companion app, look at the times for each category, if they are different, your good. Crit city races are even better, because in those, not only do you only start with your category, yin only see your category, so the other cats can’t mess up your race. Plus Crit City is a fun course, I highly recommend it.

C it is then. w/kg is at 2.9 (not enough watts, too many kgs)

I'll try jumping in a race or something today.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

One last tip....sprint start. Go out hard, sell out to hold the lead pack (this is why separate starts are better). Have your watts up as the countdown starts from 10, that way when the gate drops, you come out gunning. It will feel hard, and unmaintainable, but IT WILL settle down, and then you can start getting energy back for the first climb. (If there is one)

I have been signed up for a few months, I only have a really old dumb trainer. I did a few rides and enjoyed it until the weather turned nice here and I was able to gt out for a few solo rides. Now the weather is cold outside again and Im having trouble getting back.

Im also wondering how much I am missing with my dumb trainer.

It depends on what you are using to measure power. If you have a power meter of some sort, then a dumb trainer can work well. I did it for years, with power tap pedals and a Kurt kinetic dumb trainer. You won’t feel the grades, but your speed in game will be accurate, and you can use the gears to help simulate the grades. If you don’t have a power meter, then you have to use what is known as zPower, where the game estimates your power based off the speed of your rear wheel and the know power curve of your trainer. If you have a popular trainer, then it should have a known power curve in Zwift. This can still work, but you have to be careful to always setup each ride the same, same tire pressure, same tightening of the knob against the flywheel, etc. Your power won’t be as consistent, but if you take care to setup correctly each ride, it should still be useful. If you want to do group rides on Zwift, zPower works fine. If you want to race, you can, but most events will DQ riders on zPower, especially in the B and A cats.

I tried it once long ago (back in the early days of Zwift) and didn't enjoy it. I stuck with my method of Trainer Road and Netflix for all my indoor work.

When this whole COVID thing started I signed up for Zwift as all my friends were having Zwift gatherings and I saw it as a way to get some level of socialization. Well, it seems they improved it quite a bit. I am enjoying it for now. I am finding myself enjoying the "terrain". It's more natural riding in many ways than being locked into X watts for Y hours on TrainerRoad.

I suspect, as this year wears on, I'll be using Zwift a whole lot more. I do expect there to be basically zero triathlon season so this might have to scratch the itch for competition. I haven't thought about racing yet, I am still skeptical about it as I can see so many easy ways to cheat. However right now I am enjoying competing with myself and trying to improve my times on the various climbs and segments.

As with any video game, though, there are so many bells and whistles to learn about. All the various options and screen doodads. I am having fun figuring those out, at least.

So to me, the easiest way to deal with the cheating, depends a bit on how strong you are. If you are an A cat, then this may not work as well, but for B and C cats I feel like it works well. So to race B cat, you have to have an ftp under 4.0 or you’ll be DQd in zwiftpower. So step one is using Zwift power. Secondly, if someone is cheating, but they are cheating in a way that keeps them under 4.0 then I’m like meh, that may not be real for that guy, but it’s certainly a realistic power output, that many people can do, so I’m fine racing against it.

And if you don’t want to use zwiftpower, it’s honestly been my experience that sandbagging in Bs isn’t that bad, because even if someone is putting out higher than 4.0, it probably isn’t much higher, and they ain’t getting away from the pack anyway. Racing Bs is fun. Especially when the categories start separately. Now if you are an A it gets tougher, because of the A+ riders, some of whom are legit, some are clearly not. Since I don’t race A it’s hard for me to give much advice, other than pick your races well :)

That's almost discouraging. Lol...

My w/kg @FTP is around 4.2-4.3 (used to be way better, more like 4.6, but I gained some weight...stupid virus isolation)

I suspect I would get destroyed by the real cyclists in the A group!

I read about zwiftpower and will likely start using that though

Yeah, 4.2 is no mans land., sorry :). That said. You can enter a B a Race, since you don’t have a zwiftpower profile yet, you wouldn’t be considered a sandbagger. If your smart about using the draft, you should be able to hold the lead group and still stay within category limits. Once you get some experience, then dip your toes in the As. There are plenty of racers on Zwift who only know their FTP as 95% of their best 20 minute output in a race. And there are certainly racers who monitor their 20 minute power output to stay within cat limits. So I think you’d be fine for now, entering a B race.

Because every thread on ST needs to come around to Lionel Sanders....

I started following LS on Zwift. Dude needs to change his profile pic, still riding the Garneau.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

So this aspect of Zwift has been bothering me a bit. My team has been setting up group rides using the meetup feature. It is fairly typical that my scheduled workout is much longer than the meetup is planned for. Like today I am planning to ride for 1:20, but the meetup I am doing is only going to be for about 45 minutes. I plan to start my ride early, then join the meetup for the last 45 minutes. That's awesome and all... but when I do that Zwift cuts my ride off when I join the meetup, sends the file to Training Peaks and Strava, then makes a new file for the meetup ride. After the meetup ride, it sends that file also to TP and Strava.

Now I don't care much about having multiple rides show up in Strava... but in TP it's annoying because I then have to unpair the file, download both, merge them using a FIT file merge tool, then re-upload.

Why does Zwift have to do this? It's frustrating. Just give me one file to work with. I get it that the map thing gets messed up because my first ride will be in whatever world, and the meetup might be elsewhere. But it's still very frustrating that I wind up with multiple files I need to merge together to put in TP (or just accept that my workout is "yellow" with the second ride being just sitting there as an extra workout, but that seems dumb). I use the "yellow" feature in TP to indicate I had a bad workout, or missed some part of something. So looking back it's annoying to see a yellow when I actually completed what I was supposed to complete

The explanation that’s been given is that Zwift does this because it’s jumping you to a new location, sometimes in a whole different part of the world, and if they don’t do this, it messes up the speed/distance calcs in the fit file. Or something like that. I use Golden Cheetah, so I just use the combine activities feature to make it one activity, and that works pretty well. I don’t know if Training Peaks has that type of functionality or not. The other solution is to make the other part of your ride occur after the meetup is over, instead of before. In that case, you’ll just keep riding and you’ll get 1 fit file. Of course that may not work for you if the order matters for the type of workout you are doing.

Easiest way to handle is realize a lot of cheating "could" be going on and keep it in mind....it's really a game so don't take it all too serious. I was on a ride the other evening when someone cruses by me on the Desert Flats pushing 15.8ish/wkg for as long as they were in my "view". The reality that that was accurate is about 0% Get a good workout and have some fun while at it and enjoy Zwift for what it is not taking it 100% serious.

The easiest way to get around this is have both your head unit (Garmin, etc...) and Strava send the data to TP. Just delete the Zwift uploads in TP after the rides are posted.

This is what I do too. It's especially nice when zwift has a dropout or freezing issue you don't lose any data.

Seeing a few professional rugby players get on the zwift train.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I *could* do that... but after the group ride is over we usually do "happy hour" on Zoom... so I want my workout to finish when the group ride finishes ;)

Put me squarely in the Covid Zwift crowd.
I have been using Rouvy for my training for years and I loved it because I would go in there and bang out a structured workout 2/3 times a week but still get in longer rides outdoors plus some group rides and races where I had contact with real human beings.
Now that all that is a so a thing of the past (and hopefully the future) I signed up for Zwift and while I'll be honest I have let some of my structured workouts slide, I am really enjoying doing various group rides and the social aspect of it all.

What's the easiest and cheapest way to connect my IPad to my TV while I'm riding on Zwift? I have been watching boxing or Super League while riding on Zwift. This is fun and it helps pass the time but I think I would get more out of my ride if I could see it on my big screen TV. Any thoughts?

Get a lightening to HDMI dongle and connect the iPad to the TV via HDMI cable.


Lots of sources (Apple, eBay, Amazon, etc.)
https://www.walmart.com/...UEAQYAiABEgJ7SvD_BwE

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

My g%}}%^dam computer decided that it was going to shut itself off 40 seconds before the start.

So I get the thing restarted and I was sitting there alone at the start, and my devices had unpaired.

Stupid effing toshiba. Hate that piece of junk.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

well, that first race kicked my ass. placed 58/88 in the C's - clearly I am NOT ready to race. hung onto the second pack as long as I could, around 25th spot, then I just blew....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

My FTP is right at 4.0 and I’ve always just done A races. I usually hang with the front pack a bit then fall back and duke it out for top 20 or so.

Then I jumped in a B race thinking I could get top 3 maybe... turns all the guys A racers thinking same thing . They were quick!

i'm not sure why zwift doesn't block sandbaggers. clearly zwift has all the power data from historical rides, so if a guy is pushing 4+watts/kg for an hours, zwift should prevent him from entering D/C races. race your level or don't race at all. i think they should award class licenses based on current fitness levels. incentivize riders to move up and prevent them from entering a class below their fitness.

They are developing anti sandbagging protocols as we speak. It’s in beta and being used in some select races. Expected to be rolled out to all races sometime in May. From what I’ve read about the current beta tests, it works relatively well, but there are still some things that need improvement. It’s a start though

They get easier 😁

Was it a hilly course, or flattish?

pretty flat - Crit City. ouch.

I've signed up for one of the training plans (FTP builder or something like that), I think I'll do that while racing 1ce or 2ce per week.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

This

There are a few crit cities each day, I did a C race yesterday it was brutal, I'm a dirty sand bagger though ha, as I got filtered out on zwift power and have to go get smashed in B.

Crit city think they key is staying connected to the bigger riders on the down hill bit after the short climb or gapping them enough on the way up

here's the main thing to know about racing in zwift. beyond everything else. and i think you figured this out. whatever you do on your bike, with your legs, shows up in zwift 3sec later. it takes awhile to figure out when you need to step on the gas. you need to see some very subtle changes and know what they mean. you need to know that there's no free lunch, and if you're in a pack and you're pedaling 220w, and you back off to 170w, and you think you're good because you're still in the pack, no, you're not good. you just haven't yet seen the results of your backing off 50w yet.

once you see that you're starting to fall off, it's like the covid virus statistics. you only see a part of the damage. it's worse than you think. because there's 3sec more to come that you haven't seen yet. so, you start pedaling like a sonofabitch and, yes, you eventually catch up. but once you're attached - on the screen - and you start to back off the pedals a bit, your avatar still has 3 more seconds of pedaling like a sonofabitch. so you're soft-pedaling while your avatar moves right thru the pack and off the front. now you're coasting. in real life. and the pack catches up to you and you start pedaling right when you're at the place you want to be. but your avatar will soft-pedal for 3sec more. and you're off the back again.

this is the single biggest reason zwift events are hard for newbies. you have to develop a whole new set of instincts, that are timed appropriate to the tech.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Excellent tips, thank you!

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Yeah, I originally signed up for the 8:45 Atlantic time start, but then tech happened, I waited an hour and got into the 9:45 race. The nice thing is that there are so many races to choose from.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Dan makes a good point and in racing I watch the actual pack like a hawk and if I can stay in that keep an eye on the data of those in front of me.

This is all bloody hard while full gassing and having sweat burning in eyes.

What I liked about C is at lead I can keep up for the first 2 minutes of madness in B I accept I am second pack. In zwift I can beat local road racers who kill me in normal races

in my opinion, the very best thing we do every week is the hilly vanilli. we just had it last night. we had about 60 riders just in the D group alone. this group goes first, and we have the BEST ride leader in all of zwiftworld leading that group, jimmie will richey. i'm about to publish a profile of this guy on our front page. he's just terrific.

the D group rides for 65min. 5min after this group leaves, the C group goes. and they know if they don't ride as a group they'll never catch the D group, which is the point. and the B group leaves 5min later yet, so, they ride 55min total. all groups end at the same time. the goal is to either not be caught, or to catch, depending on who you are.

there's really not enough time between these groups, and the C group usually catches us, and the B group as well, tho if it's an entirely flat course jimmie does such a great job of ride leading that he can keep the D group out front. this isn't a race, tho now we've flipped this into a race 1x each month, and it remains a ride the other 3 or 4 weeks each month. but it's as hard as any race, because the groups are pretty well forced to stay together, since it's really not the D group racing among each other, it's the Ds trying to fend off the Cs and so forth. so it's harder to get dropped, which means you're less likely to throw in the towel. i got severely thrashed last night, because i just... wasn't... ever... quite dropped, so i hung around riding hard for the whole 65min even tho i was thrashed a half-hour into it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

sounds like fun - I've added that to next week. fortunately it's at a fairly good time for me. I'd prefer if it were 15 minutes later, but 7:55 should be OK to get kids in bed and get ready to ride in time to join.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

IMO you are missing EVERYTHING (ok, maybe not everything but at least 80% of the fun) about Zwift with a dumb trainer. I hated training indoors (used old school TrainerRoad videos, etc. in the past) but knew that indoors would be a necessity a few years ago when I was training for Ultraman Florida. The race was in February and I live in the northeast. I tried to ride outdoors on weekends as long as I could, but i couldn't stay out longer than 4 hours in 30 degree weather- so indoors I moved.

I started using Zwift in fall of 2016, and have done up to 7.5 hour indoor rides. Don't get me wrong, those long days - I had Zwift up on one computer while streaming movies on another.

The smart trainer was a game changer for me. The trainer adjusting resistance based on the visible terrain can let you forget for a split second you are actually inside stuck in place. I really like the option for group rides, races, and when I'm "just riding" - the opportunity to go for QOM or sprint jerseys.

I used a wheel on Kickr Snap since the beginning (nearly 4 years now) and it has treated me extremely well. I recently purchased a Kickr Core for myself. It's still in the box waiting to be lugged to the basement. I will say - if you are strong and can push out the watts, it's worth it to spend more at initial purchase for the wheel-off trainer. My husband didn't last as long with his Kickr Snap because he had too much wheel slippage. For me that only happens if the incline is like 19-20%.

Get a smart trainer, you won't regret it.

An Ode to Zwift Racing
I wasn't planning on racing until my neighbor said something. I was just sitting at my desk, minding my own business.
I looked on ZwiftPower and saw a race in 30 minutes. Quickly, I rushed to finish work and get out there. I made it with 6 minutes to spare.
Had to shovel my way to the garage as my warm-up. Thanks Boulder for the 15" of snow .
Signed up for B's and was toward the front when we hit the climb.

I felt good and I was up there, so I decided to "go for it". The map only had 1 climb and it said 1 lap, so I went all in for the 20 minute effort.
I made it over the climb and was with an A rider... I was pushing it to the finish.

When, all of a sudden we rounded a corner and we were going back up the climb again!
Another 20 minutes! (This time slightly demoralized).

But I'm still in first place (B) by a minute, so I can't give in.
Except I'm hurtin'.
Big time.

But I'm still winning, so I'm turning myself inside out, paying for the first climb with interest...

I finish the race, 1st in the B's, 307 watts for 55 minutes: my best effort in years.
Until... I look at the results...
And zwiftpower bumped me to the A's.

---

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

I don't do a ton of Zwift races...I actually prefer the group rides more....but with no fence for quite a while I would say even group rides 98% of the time turn into races.....and just as hard of you want them to.

Being able to read that 3 second delay is key....keeps you from falling off the back as well as overshooting the front of a group as well.....then you slow to get into the group only to figure out you are heading out the back again. I'm getting pretty good at keeping a consistent 3rd wheel in groups.

Last...do many of you end up yelling at your TV? I don't use any text/communication during events (mirroring my iphone to TV so just impossible for me), but I see a lot of stupid chasing or blowing up a nice group that is catching the group ahead and end up yelling at my TV asking riders to stop riding like an idiot. I know it's stupid in itself, but just can't seem to help myself.

SMan wrote:

"it's worse than you think. because there's 3sec more to come that you haven't seen yet. so, you start pedaling like a sonofabitch and, yes, you eventually catch up. but once you're attached - on the screen - and you start to back off the pedals a bit, your avatar still has 3 more seconds of pedaling like a sonofabitch."


Sounds like my first years of road/crit racing.

That's one of the things that I sometimes dislike about road racing/ crit racing and zwift riding, as compared to triathlon, esp. age-grouper, long-course triathlon.

With tri racing, for the most part, you really are doing your own race. Those other things on the race course (participants) are extraneous to your performance. Keep your form, listen to your body, respond to the course and the conditions, in your own way, on your own time. Steady as she goes !

Zwift/crit/road racing, for the most part, you are really responding to the actions of others. You really have to pay attention. Kind of like driving in Riverside, or Calgary. Brakes! Gas! Repeat! You don't want to be that chump caught napping at the back when a break goes, or at the front giving those wheel suckers a rest.

BTW, any Bushido users here? Tips? Advices?

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

I enjoyed that 😁

I did my first Zwift ride Friday. I connected Zwift with my TP and GC accounts before the ride. I did not start a Bike Indoor activity on my Fenix. DC Rainmaker had just posted an article about broadcasting HR info to 3rd party apps using the Virtual Run activity and then discarding after the activity is complete. I used that method during the ride and linked my speed sensor and Fenix OHR to Zwift.

After the data was uploaded, I noticed that the "Load" number on GC did not increase at all. The Load number also affects the High/Low Aerobic and the Anaerobic numbers and I am trying to use those to help me back off from hard training.

So...to you Zwift riders who are also GC users (Forerunner/Fenix/Edge or other owners), do you start an indoor biking activity on your watch and not upload to GC from Zwift? What other method do you use to ensure your activity level is increasing on GC? Or do you care?

I can’t decide if I care or not. I end up recording the ride on Zwift and on my Edge 530. I let them upload to TrainingPeaks, Strava, and Garmin Connect, after which I delete the Zwift activity from GC and keep the one recorded by the Edge. I also then have to make sure only one version is saved to TP and to Strava and end up doing some deletion on those apps too. A bit of extra manual work for something I’m not sure I care about or not. ;)

I don't mind a bit of manual work to delete the Zwift-based uploads. On my next ride, I will start a Bike Indoor activity on my Fenix as well as let Zwift upload. Do you also pair your HR monitor and let it broadcast to Zwift?

I don’t care about GC stats at all. The only thing I use it for is as a conduit to TP. On zwift, if you’re a TP user I’m not sure of the benefit of recording the ride on a Garmin device at all, zwift will put everything on TP, which is where I will tend to put everything even if it isn’t recorded on my Garmin.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I view my Edge recording as a backup. I’ve had Zwift crash or otherwise not save/ upload a ride that I’ve found it useful to use the Edge too.

Fair enough.

I’m pretty new on zwift so it hasn’t happened to me yet. But I’d assume that would be rare? I think I’ll just put in a manual entry to TP rather than have to go into TP every time do delete extra rides.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Brand newbie here, did my first ride and run yesterday. I just bought a Tacx NEO 2T, riding seems pretty straight forward but I have two questions.

1- How do I see the upcoming elevation change while running? I'd like to manually adjust my treadmill if I know what kind of incline/decline is coming up.
2- Is there a way to start a training plan on a specific day? I want to try the mutlisport mixer, but it seems like it starts the same day you select it, I'd like to push the start day our until 4/21, do I just need to delete the plan from my schedule and restart it on 4/21?

No rant or rave yet, but so far I'm keen to use it more.

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--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

If Zwift crashes on you during a ride, you can retrieve the data from the device. On a PC it’s in your documents folder. A Zwift folder is created there and you can access your activities, upload them to Strava, TP or whatever. Mac has a similiar folder, but I’m not sure exact location.

If you are on iOS or Android, there a feature built in the game that will let you access old fit files, including your last file, which would ostensibly be the one you need after a crash. You can read about how to do it here
https://zwiftinsider.com/retrieve-lost-ride/

Thanks! Very handy tips.

Same here for the reason you mention, although I actually keep the Zwift file in TP and just strip out the summary data manually. That way my volume totals, TSS etc. remains accurate and I can also dig into any past Zwift file for analysis if I want (helpful since the Zwift terrain is visible on those files). I've also used this as a way to compare power readings between my rainer and PM over time. Best of both worlds, although admittedly a bit of a PITA.

Now has anyone come up with a quick hack to eliminate the redundant files in Strava? I just gave up caring about my Strava totals and whether anyone really thinks I ride twice as much as I do.

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Are YOU in the Zone?
http://www.discomfortzone.com

I just set my strava up to default an activity as private. Then I just go make the one file I want public. This is really nice for when you do zwift activities as no one cares about the 10 minute warmup you did before a ride or race of whatever that automatically gets made into a different file.

Racing aside, the great thing about Zwift is that you can enjoy the accomplishment satisfaction of completing all the routes and then bettering your times. In addition to the badges you get for each completed route, you may find the following "Route Hunter" leaderboard to be interesting and motivating.

https://zwiftinsider.com/route-hunter/

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Are YOU in the Zone?
http://www.discomfortzone.com

Smart - thanks for the tip!

---

Are YOU in the Zone?
http://www.discomfortzone.com

I am fairly new to the platform (new Saris H3 trainer in December), 3-4 months and have enjoyed it much more than prior years of doing my own intervals. These were mostly longer 15-20 minutes just to maintain fitness during the Winter.

I am a little fast to feel good about doing C races without feeling like someone ruining the platform for others. In B races I am usually back half or more. I still do C races if I am tired from the days prior. The group rides and theme events are better for me in someways since I can find more people my level to mix it up with and pull thru. They are still brutal and just one step down from a race.

Some of the features you have to get good at are my weakness. Warm up with brutal start and what Slowman described with the drafting and delayed response if you are not focused. I also have to watch the course ahead and realize when the pace will jump and realize when I am getting an extra breath, it will turn mean.

I have a 1999 bike with a 39/23 as my easiest gear so I adjust the trainer difficulty to about 1/3 down from the hardest but that does not help me much. With everyone on different trainers and some people going extra light on their weight you just have to accept it is not a level playing field and get what benefits you. If you look at the winning watts in the B and C groups you wonder.
Once I accidentally did an A race at lunch and that was a solo ride and I don't mean off the front.

I think it helped fitness and my weight is down but I noticed my road and MTB had different positions outside and I have to adjust to them.
If you can have identical set ups with your bikes it would help more.
The nice thing is there rides and races all the time that fit my schedule and solo rides for easier days.
I may keep paying thru the Summer sue to allergies and fire smoke but undecided.

That’s a good idea!

Just started last week and haven't done a race yet. I stopped riding outdoors about 4 years ago. Is there any point to linking Zwift to my Strava account? I know Zwift recommends it for races.

Thanks

Zwiftpower wants it for races, but I don’t think that’s a requirement anymore. If your not interested in using Strava with Zwift, you should be fine.

If you want to take part in ZwiftPower rankings, ZP works to link results to your account by checking your Strava. It is worth noting that Zwift's virtual maps exist on Strava, so if you're not using TP or an equivalent you can use your Strava to log workouts.

Doesn't Zwiftpower get data directly from Zwift? I don't see why it would matter whether I log them in Strava. I thought the point of linking to Strava was to see if outdoor workouts had similar performance numbers to the indoor rides.

I just got a Wahoo Kickr Core yesterday and did 3 1hr Zwift sessions after that. They were more demanding than I thought they would be. It was pretty fun though - I like it.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I didn't have a Strava account until last week and ZP has always worked fine for my zwift race results

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Me: https://carnivoreendurance.blogspot.com/...ever-comes-next.html

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I just did my 5th 1hr Zwift session since signing up yesterday. The last session was 60min at 240W / 185lbs.

I probably wouldn't have gotten a trainer if it wasn't for Covid 19 and generally thought inside hours were fake miles, but believe in them now. I'm pretty tired from these sessions, moreso than I generally feel off the outdoor bike. I think it is good training so far, much better than expected. I believe in these indoor training miles now. I feel a lot more comfortable pushing really hard than on the bike in general.

Before setting this up, I thought if I had a trainer that I would ride forever or always jump on it for kicks. But, I don't really want to get on it unless i'm going to push and have a productive session. And surprisingly I can't ride at high watts forever. I like these 1hr sessions so far. Also, I don't know my FTP, so I guess each session is an exploration of FTP.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Have been 50% trainer for past several years. Never got around to setting up Zwift.

Now two weeks in and really enjoying it. Did a handful of rides to get used to it. Joined the Slowtwitch Casual Friday Ride last week (Which was great. Thank you Sean for doing!). And then did my first race today. Jumped into a City Crit Race. Really fun and got a great workout.

Am excited to put this into the rotation of options depending on my mood and motivation.

See everyone this Friday AM.

I did the ST group workout today, and there was no way I could do it. Dan was leading the ride. said that the workout was set wrong. My FTP is at 268, workout had 6 x 3 mins at 335 with 2 mins between each. I think I did that for half of the first interval, then no way.

I think he owes us some apology pushups.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I did today’s workout too. Ouch. I made it through the 1st interval. 6x3 minutes at 125% is brutal. especially with just 2 minutes to recover. I knocked it down to about 115% for the next 5 and made it through those.

This is Day 3 of having a trainer and Zwift for me.

My 6th ride was another 1hr workout. I haven’t done the races yet and still kind of like self motivation on the London flats with random people.

This session was 242W at 184lbs (60min). It seems like I need 10min to warm up and typically try to really put out the last 10min. I start out with 2 jackets on and a beanie and am down to just my tri shorts at the end, no shirt, 2 fans.

60oz Gatorade today. I seem to be absolutely chugging liquids in these sessions.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Watched a youtube video on a fairly quick way to get a bunch of XP.

Do the volcano circuit (4.1km IIRC) XP for 1 lap, 5 laps, 10 laps and 25 laps. The best thing would be to do all 25 laps the first time. You get the extra XP only for the first time completing each number of laps. I did 10 laps so I got points for 1, 5 and 10 laps. The 10 lap XP bonus is 1000XP. Can't remember what the other were/are. Also you get an exta 10XP for using a TT bike on every lap. Using a regular bike gives power ups which are not needed here. And make sure your settings are in metric. You have a slight advantage in how fast they accrue. 20XP/Km versus 30XP/mile.

I really prefer to see mph though - that’s weird it’s 7% more credit for kph.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Some questions on connectivity: I've tried to search and feel I've been getting mixed information.

Set Up: Circa 2012 Macbook Pro. A touch slow to get running, but runs well once logged in. Good old-fashion Bluetooth.
Trainer: Cycleops H2 Ant+ / BLE
Powermeter: Ant+ Specialized Quarq
HRM: Wahoo Ant+ / BLE

Connectivity Option 1: Companion App
I've used the companion app to connect the BLE devices to Zwift. This seems to work well and is fairly responsive. However, with this set up I do not have the option to calibrate the trainer, nor do I have the ability to connect the power meter.

Connectivity Option 2: Ant+
I also have an Ant+ stick on a USB extension. This works well in that I can connect all my devices and also calibrate the trainer. However, this set-up seems just a hair slower to respond and therefore good but not perfect.

Connectivity Question: BLE Dongle
The question: Can I add a BLE Dongle to this set-up and get the best of both worlds? The ability to calibrate the trainer through BLE in addition to the better response of BLE. My Quarq and H2 report essentially identical numbers, so I am not concerned with having the Quarq connected and can just run that to my headunit.

---

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

What is the best way to run TrainerRoad and Zwift simultaneously? I'm running a MS Surface Pro with Windows 10 Pro and apparently the native Bluetooth doesn't connect to my Saris H3 trainer, so my Ant+ dongle conncts to Zwift but can't connect to TR.

I have been running trainerroad and zwift simultaneously for close to 2 years now on two setups at the same time (wife and I both have wahoo kickrs).

I do either:
Bluetooth connection from kickr to trainerroad on Android phone (erg mode).

ANT+ connection from kickr to laptop with dongle for zwift (power pairing only, not controlling).

Or:
Bluetooth to Apple iPad/apple tv for zwift and ANT+ to phone for trainerroad.


In either case you need two devices, one for TR and a separate one for zwift. Hope that makes sense.

For the "controller" option in Zwift do you just not select the trainer to make sure TR controls it and not Zwift?

That's how I do it.

I have a laptop running TR. That connects to my Kickr and Power Meter via ANT+.

I have a second laptop running Zwift. I have that connect ONLY to my Power Meter via BT. I leave the controllable trainer disconnected.

This way TR controls my workout, and Zwift is just there for entertainment.

I only ever do this when I am riding in a "meetup" with friends but also have a structured workout to do. If I have a regular structured workout and I am not planning to ride with anyone, I just let Zwift do it. In fact, Zwift is better than TR in this respect since Zwift pulls the workout from Training Peaks without any extra action on my part (vs having to manually download a .erg file, putting it into TR's workout creator, and loading it into TR after).

I may just drop TR altogether at some point because I only ever use TR now in the narrow scenario I outlined above

Yes. Here's how I do it:

AppleTV: Zwift with Quarq connected for power and cadence, nothing selected for "controllable"

Phone/iPad: Trainerroad controlling tacx neo

Is a keyboard required to give a rider a "ride on?"

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

I'm still new to zwift so I don't know all the ways to give a ride on. I do know there are other ways to give a ride on without a keyboard.

If you are using the companion app on your phone or tablet you can give ride ons from there. I'm pretty sure you coud also use a mouse or touch screen to give one

as mentioned, the companion app is best for communicating and giving ride ons during a ride.

Day 5 on Zwift.

Starting to get used to it. Did about 4h10min today in 2 rides.

My second ride, I needed to do about 2h3min for a particular Strava leaderboard, so had to do at least that much. I also wanted to try out playing poker at the same time, so joined an $11 $15K GTD tournament on America's Cardroom. I tried to put the mouse on a table just under the bars and it seemed to be in the best place, but would really be tiring to move the mouse if I was in a high watt gear.

I stopped playing most hands and would typically just shove premium hands. I started doing well with this technique, only playing a few hands and was top 20% in the tourney for a while. Then I got knocked out 2hrs into the ride and then kind of wanted to stop soon too so ended. It would have been nice to have gotten paid to ride and train, but I think I'm just going to focus on riding and not do these poker cycling sessions too often as it was just so difficult to hold pace and play.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Does anyone know how I have find out what my PR's are for various segments in Zwift? Or where the KOM's are? I've found a few just by riding around, but it would be nice to know which ones I'm missing or if I'm coming up to one.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

How ‘good’ is Zwift? What kind of metrics does it take into account for the dynamics of riding? Like if your weight and height is set high will you be less aero etc? How far have they taken it?

And how come sometimes does someone come flying past me when their w/kg is showing lower than what I am currently putting out?

TIA

https://zwiftinsider.com/...ift-strava-segments/

This is probably the best resource for what you want.

because they're heavier than you, so putting out more watts, or they're drafting, or they were putting out higher numbers and just backed off...

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Thanks.

I take it that I should just completely ignore the leaderboard? 45.6 km/h on 228W for the Box Hill KOM? really? and the women's is 45.4 km/h on 136W.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Short answer = yes, ignore.

I have found for overall Strava KOMs that a few of the people at the very top have legit results, but most top times are definitely the product of miscalibrated trainers (whether intentionally or otherwise), clear "weight dopers" (ie, lying about weight), or in-game glitches (I've had Zwift freak out and measure me at 2,000W before despite power meter showing 250W, would have had a KOM if I didn't stop to try fix).

Yes ignore the leaderboard. I like to use it to compare efforts, from my past rides. Also I like to compare to people I follow.

I did my first long ride on Zwift yesterday - 170.1mi. I had 10 green smoothies and lots of gels. It started as a recovery ride or light LSD, but kept going so I went with it. I’m now boiling 12 eggs and am starving - lol.

Imma pass out hard tonight.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Thanks -I clearly don't really understand how w/kg etc all relates to what happens 'on the road'.

What about weight/height/aero etc?

I assume they've accounted for that somehow, but I don't know what the formula is. Someone inside Zwift would have to verify that.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Did you say 170 miles? Holy whatever......

Zwift ride last week and came upon a group of 5 or 6 that all were showing 220 miles (I took a screen grab just to prove it). Seeing that made me realized just was a cycling peon I really am.....I should have stopped and walked away right then and there.

Check out Chris Pritchard's channel on Youtube. He has done extensive testing with many things Zwift. As for your height and weight in the virtual world it does make a difference. For example, at the same weight the taller rider is slower in Zwift.

This just in!!!

I threw my wife's bike on the Zwift machine (Bushido) for the weekend, so on Monday, I took her's off & put my bike back on.

I also used the Tacx Utility app. to calibrate my bike. I had to tighten things up a lot more than I had become accustomed to.

The final reading was "right in the middle of the green zone."

Decided to give the new setup a spin on the Figure 8 Loop.

A few (good) things transpired.

Tyre stopped slipping on most (but not all) climbs.

Less "dragstrip" smell in the pain cave.

I could keep up with guys on some of the sprints.

I hit for the first time ever, over 310 watts on the Zwift machine.

Until then, I just thought my "big power" sucked & that an endurance guy can't generate big watts, although in "real-life" I can hold my own in the C group for local crits an am usually a sub-six IM rider.

An interesting development.

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

I've dabbled in Zwift, but never got past a few short rides. Thought I was a Trainer Road ride or die guy for indoor rides (I've been with them so long my monthly fee is less than 8 bucks). With the current situation and basically the devolution of the outside riding experience over the 12 years I've been doing this, I'm now all in on Zwift. Simulation mode as opposed to ERG mode has been a game changer for me as it feels much more road like in effort and experience. So, I saw on Zwiftinsider about the Route Hero challenge (ride all the free ride routes in 8-11 weeks), so I'm doing that. So far so good. Let me know if anyone else is taking on this challenge and I'll look for you out there (especially on the long rides).

I'm doing it but without a timeline in mind and trying for the tron bike at the same time so I'm riding most of the hilly rides first.

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Tiago
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Sponsors: : Blueseventy :

Thanks! Good channel.

I am running Zwift on my iPad and would like to get HR data, I already have a Garmin HR monitor that I use for outdoor rides, but being Ant+ it does not connect to the iPad.
Does anyone use the Coospoo Bluetooth strap, and does it work?.
Obviously either the Wahoo Tickr or 4!!! would be the first choice, but I don't want to spend much since once the Covid blows over I hope to go back to doing most of my riding outside.

I’ve been on zwift for 2 weeks, ridden for 13 days straight. Im doing the FTP builder program, plus other rides, about an hour per day, give or take. Took yesterday off for non cycling related reasons.

2 days ago I redid the ramp test about 1/2 hour after my workout. Got an 11 watt bump up in FTP. So that’s nice.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

You could get an ANT+ collector that collects all your ANT+ data and send it forward as a blue tooth signal

Or a laptop and a USB Ant+ dongle

https://www.amazon.com/...dExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

... and just when I thought I knew something.

I recalibrated the Bushido using the TACX UTE AP.

Jumped back on Zwift - Volcano Loop (group ride).

Worked my butt off to maintain a wattage of 135 & 1/8 W/ K.G.

More research is needed.

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Dear Zwift power, I know you are independent from zwift, but why do you have people in your results with over 4.0 w kg in B.

I got filtered out of a race when I was actually in C based on my averages and was within the C threshold, came 10 th in the race as well, just because my 20 min power was too high.

I like training but I'm a C grade rider with a shot of winning in B i just get a really hard training session and your formula allows people better than me to ride C.

Two questions:

One: I'm trying to go through the routes for the XP badges, and some of them are pretty short. Is there a way to select a new route within the same world other than fully exiting and restarting Zwift?

Two: It's not just me, the course profile thing is basically unreadable, right? I know how to read a course profile and I can't figure this thing out to save my life. Sometimes it feels zoomed in on a small segment, fine, but then I can't find myself on it? I just don't understand how a course profile is hard.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

I can't see how to select a new route, but I just figured out how the course profile works. it shows the entire profile for the route along the bottom of the minimap, you are shown with a pin on it. KOM's are shown along the bottom. the grade indicator on the top right also shows the course profile coming up next. That's all I know, it was totally confusing me until last night, then I finally "got it".

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Sounds good, I'll pay attention to it with that in mind, thanks.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

For zwiftpower (for now at least) all that matters is 20 minute power. Or more specifically, 95% of 20 minute power. Total power for the race doesn’t matter

All they do is encourage sandbagging. Do three races just for training go back to C. Enter C at least have a chance of competing for the win.

They neither need more grades or review the 95 % rule as it is flawed

Actually Zwift (and zwiftpower) are in the process of changing the cat system. It’s supposedly going to be based off 1 min and 5 min power,which are harder metrics to sandbag. (Not impossible, but harder).

Zwift has also indicated they eventually want a category system based off race results, and not your power curve. But there’s no timeline for when that might happen

Alright, how come none of you guys said that there would be mf'in velociraptors? Saw a pack of 'em on my ride yesterday. It's one thing getting chased by a farmer's dog, but velociraptors? seriously?

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

OK racing question...

I want to sign up for a race and it gives me category options:

A: 4.0-5.0w/kg
B: 3.0-4.0w/kg

Do I select my category based on my w/kg @ FTP? Or based on what I expect to maintain for the race? If I go by FTP, I would need to select A as my FTP is about 4.4w/kg. But if it's a long race I am not going to maintain over 4w/kg for say a 100km race (I am talking about selecting the category in the Zwift race event signup page, not the ZwiftPower category)

Also I don't quite understand how ZwiftPower uses 95% of whatever 20 minute power you did in your last few races. It's not like everyone is FTP-testing in every race. If you are doing a 50-100km race you are not racing at FTP the whole time obviously. So your best 20 minute power in that race will be much lower than your FTP.

yep its weird, take the last three races 20 min power thats the grade. Nothing else matters

Agree, it's not a good method. But it's the one we got

Have you seen the bear fall out of the tree, trying to get the honey?

I've been on Zwift for just over 2 weeks now. I'm really enjoying it.

One issue I've had is the app freezing up and closing in the middle of a group event. For the 2nd week in a row, I've joined in the BMTR Fundo on Saturday morning, and for the 2nd time the Zwift app fronze and closed partway through the event. When I log back it asked if I want to resume and even though I I click yes, I am no longer in the event when I'm back on.

This doesn't happen when I'm free riding. I've also done one other group ride and had no issues. Is it something with this one event? The BMTR Fundo is large with around 1000 riders each week. Could that have something to do with it?

I'm running on Android app with Bluetooth connection to a Saris M2 trainer.

wait, is this for real? Where is this, and what does the bear look like?

No I haven’t found the bear yet. I’ll keep a lookout though.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Almost finished week 2 on Zwift.

701mi this week, a new high for me.

I’m 39mi and 1400ft gain short from all my favorite leaderboards. I might do one more ride tonight, not sure how much I want it. It was a good training week, the end of today’s century was slightly tiring but ok. My watts dropped off a lot but mainly was concerned with distance this week.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

So, is there a way to see what a Zwift workout plan was after the ride is complete? There are notes and such on the workout that seem to disappear once the ride is done, along with the actual workout plan?

Also, do you ever actually see the pterodactyls? Or just the shadows?

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

My google-fu, which is normally quite good, was subpar when I initially searched for this.

I'm glad to say that I've found him described

Image from zwiftinsider



I really wish he were a bit more anthropomorphic and wore a red shirt; but then Disney would have said something about it

I've been Zwifting about 5 X / week for indeed about 6 weeks.

No rides longer than 2 hours.

No Zwift this past weekend.

Went out into the real world. Did the REAL IMC course with real wind, cars, gravity.

Wow, super-happy with how I did. A touch over 6 hours and in a good mood for most of it. And no SOAKED CHAMOIS.

Getting good training value for all the fun I have been getting on Zwift.

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

With 4.4 Wkg FTP, you should definitely start in cat. A. Not even close to cat B. level imo...
Regarding the races in cat A. typically the start is not very hard (you should be able to make the first group with ~400W for first 10-30 seconds and then some bursts) The races will only truly open up on any incline, and are determined by 1-5 min power ... don't be a hero in between hills and just follow wheels, you're not going to ride of the front of the A-cat on a flat road. For very long races the avg. power is obviously lower for everyone ... could very well be that you don't even need 4Wkg to finish with/ close to the 1st group in such long races; just be prepared to get dropped in final part of the race ... that's reality for most non-elites

Regarding your 2nd remark; ZP nowadays takes 95% of 20min power of your 3 best performances of the last 3 months in both races AND events.

Yea so I signed up for a Crit City race, in Cat A. I wound up making just on 4.0w/kg for the race effort (not my best performance by any stretch). I was able to hang with the front at the start by cranking it up to around 450 watts and holding for a bit, but then fatigue from the previous few weeks of training pulled me back to a more reasonable place where I just sortof held on for 20 minutes. I finished right in the middle of the cat A rank so I am not going to complain about that. But I also saw on ZwiftPower that there were plenty of Cat Bs that posted faster times than me. Like I was 70th in the ZPower rank for Cat A, but my time would have only been good for like 20th in Cat B.

Anyway I am still learning how this works. I am planning to race again on Friday, but for something a little longer - closer to 40-45 minutes if I can find the right race (i.e. not another 20 minute crit). For a race that long I doubt I'll be making over 4.0w/kg (probably just under). I'll likely still just stay with Cat A and work to improve there.

So I did some ZwiftPower snooping and found your race (hope that doesn't come across as too weird).

In terms of category for Zwift racing, as it stands now all that matters is 20 minute power, and more specifically, 95% of 20 minute power. So for your race, your 95% of 20 min power was 3.77 which is squarely in the Cat B range. I realize 95% of 20 min power, in a zwift race, is not really that good a proxy for FTP, but it's what the current system uses.

In terms of why your time would have only been only 20th in Cat B. That is probably mostly due to pack size, once you got dropped from the lead pack in Cat A, you weren't traveling as fast anymore, even though you may have been putting out similar power #'s as before. Had you raced in the Cat B race, judging by your power profile from that race, you most likely would have held the main pack the whole race and your time would have been faster, even though your power #'s would have been similar.

Great work! just stay in the A's for now and see which courses suit you; and learn "how to race".
Be aware though that there are a lot of very strong riders in cat A (lately I see multiple pro's in basically all races I enter), just accept that these guys can crank out huge power over 1-5 min (which is what determines most races). Problem is just that the rider-level/gap in cat A is too large.
On the upside though, I don't see a lot of blatant cheating in A; something which seems more apparent in other cat's from what I hear.

No worries on the snooping. If I wanted to stay totally anonymous my screen name wouldn't be so close to my real name.

What you say makes perfect sense. While I can make almost 4.3-4.4w/kg in an FTP test, I can see how ZwiftPower's calculation wouldn't put me there the way they do it. And yea, about 10 minutes into the race I got dropped from the front pack and I spent the last 10 minutes either alone, or with one or two other people who seemed to stay in my draft most of the way, and only occasionally pulling. Granted it's impossible to know if they were doing that on purpose or if it's just an artifact of the way the game works. Clearly I have a lot to learn.

When I race again this week in a longer event maybe I'll pick Cat B and see how well I can hang with the main pack. My 20 minute power in a longer race won't be more than 4w/kg so I should be "safe" in Cat B

I've since bought 2 BTLE dongles.
1. BlueGiga- Was recognized by the computer in the structure, but could not (Easily) get it to act as the Bluetooth receiver.
2. IOGear- Worked Immediately upon plugging in.

However, Zwift will not recognize the Bluetooth 4.0 my 2011 Macbook Pro, such that while it controls the trainer, it does not give me the option to calibrate the powermeter. (Which was the functionality I was looking for).

I'm going to keep trying this set-up, as because it is now native to the computer (no need for the companion app), I can pair to both Ant+ and BT at the same time. Additionally, hopefully this stops the BT drop-outs that have been plaguing me while racing.

---

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Find in B that a minute at 350-400 followed by hang for 5 minutes at around 300 and you can make the B pack, There will always be B who make the A pack as they really should be in A.

In races I can hang with the mix of B and A that pack has but, what happens in every race is with one or two laps to go the top guys hit 1 minute power than back it up with 5 minute power that I can't keep up with get dropped.

Its more that one minute surge, anyway thats bike racing.

At least, that's one aspect of zwift racing comparable to real like bike racing. For the vast majority of real bike races, it's repeatable 3-8 minute power that matters. Only difference being when one attacks in real life, presumably one has taken it easy for a good long while, riding below 60% FTP. Whereas in Zwift, that effort is after one has already maintained at least 85% FTP for the last 5 minutes, just to stay toward the front of the pack.

yeah thats the challenge trying to make those efforts after being at near FTP for the thing

That indeed seems to happen and is in my view the biggest drawback compared to road racing where you can really hide in the peloton.
Actually now I think of it, zwift racing feels more like continuous echelon/crosswind racing (as we're used to in the Netherlands) where the race happens at the back of the group most of the time.

You should be aware though that in Zwift you'll have a fairly broad power range that will keep you in the draft. When you gain experience, you should be able to minimize your efforts without dropping!

I have a question here about ride time with warming up for events.
So I have been doing quite a few group rides, Usually I check in 10-15 minutes before and warm up there, I never really paid close attention to total ride time and Strava, but yesterday I did, and what I found was that it does not include the warm up time, so the official ride was 45 minutes and that it what is recorded on Strava and Zwift, but when I go to the companion app it shows 56 minutes (so 11 minute warm up), not a big deal losing 11 minutes but if you do multiple rides a week and say warm up 15-20 minutes each time you can end up losing over an hour a week on Strava and TP.
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions about this?.

You can add a manual activity to Strava or join in the last minute as it will still create an activity and upload for the time you rode before joining the event and being put in the pens. I use Garmin Connect as my main source and record activities on my watch.

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Nanoo Nanoo

Should I do a spin down on my Wahoo Kickr before every ride on Zwift? I don't have a power meter.

If you have it set to auto import to Strava/TP, then when you stop your warmup (by clicking "Go To Event"), then Zwift ends that activity and will send it automatically to Strava and TP. So you should see 2 separate activities

ETA: I see you mean you are going to the pens 10-15 minutes early. In that case, it won't get recorded. What I do is just ride around one of the courses for my warmup, then go to the event with around 2-5 minutes to start. If you do that, your warmup will get logged as a separate activity

New to running on Zwift. Want to get it set up.

What is the deal with gradient? There are hills in the game, how does that pair (or not) with the treadmill?

TIA

It doesn’t. Gradient has no effect on anything related to Zwift running

So the virtual hills when running on Zwift are moot, essentially?

yes. In fact, if you run up the Alp, or Mountain route, or something similar, you'll routinely pass most of the cyclists.

Correct.

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Nanoo Nanoo

Got to get sandbagging sorted, top 5 in B all filtered on zwift power from B. Meaning our second pack was the first pack bu the race dynamic is screwed.

The sandbaggeers still are in the results on Zwift companion and they affect the race. Each one of them was in the top 10 in A less than 15 seconds being the A winner, meaning they raced an A race.

Q1 why do people who do this do it and there must be some on ST who do it?

Q2 why does zwift support it?

Unpopular opinion: I think this is a feature, not a bug. And, frankly, why zwiftpower exists.

I think it is important to remember that this is a video game. It's fun. And kinda like bike racing, but not really.

The psychological affect of not knowing if the folks up the road are "real" or not (are they gonna get DQ'ed?) makes you race in the moment in whatever pack you're in. You could be in 20th place and not really know if you are racing for the win or not. In a real bike race, it is pretty easy to throw in the towel when you get dropped from the main pack. In zwift, there is substantial incentive to fight on and try to beat your chase mates.

I'll also add that there seems to be less of this in the A races. A lot of those monsters are actually monsters.

With that, I'm off to do the Innsbruckring race now.

Andy

Good points and I do hang a lot tougher on road when if dropped just DNF or roll around before coffee. Using zwift power you always end up a few places higher after the DQ.

A pace is serious though!

Happened to me yesterday (and the other week too).
Thought I was in the lead pack of B's (co mingled with A's). At one point we slightly caught the "front pack" and could see a couple B's up the road. Ultimately they were filtered out on Zwiftpower.

I don't like that Zwift Power filters out users without Heart Rate data. We have a 50% filter rate in my race yesterday.

---

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I get that its no perfect, but it can be better and that there will be people who are new and simply don't know. Think the new rules are planning to filter or upgrade them in flight.

Suppose it pays to not take it too seriously, though you do ask yourself the question of why?

Zwift noob here. So do some races use the zwiftpower verification and others do not? A buddy of mine jumped into an Austin Driveway Series crit last night, but I don't see it listed in the event list on zwiftpower.

The D race is supposedly for those between 1.0 and 2.5 W/Kg FTP, but the D race results from last night are full of people 2.8 and above, some as high as 3.6. For these, I assume there's no protection for sandbagging.

yes, it's up to the race organizer

ETA: Though pretty much all end up on Zwift Power. The KOA private race series was the only one I knew of, where the results were not always displayed on ZP. But now, some of those are.

Thanks. I couldn't find this particular series anywhere on ZP. No big deal, was just curious.

Is there a way to the actual distance of a course? The Jungle Loop says like 4.9 miles but has a 3.8 mile lead up. If it is available to see the actual mileage to complete a course I don;t see it. It is frustrating to try and complete courses but not knowing the actual distance.
Thank you, John

Zwiftinsider.com


You can find details for pretty much all of the routes here:
https://zwiftinsider.com/watopia/

That one's for watopia courses, but links to the other worlds

When you look at the route details, it shows the lead in. And lots of other stuff. Here's and example for "big loop"
https://zwiftinsider.com/route/big-loop/


I'll also add that the answer to just about any zwift question is on zwift insider. Not super well organized site, but if you search around a bit, you'll find what you are looking for.

Andy

Thanks Andy. I appreciate the link as well as the concept of 'lead ins". I do appreciate being able to ask questions here too!

Sometimes Zwift just drops my trainer and HR and just says ‘—-‘

It’s pretty annoying and I can’t figure out how to continue and have to log out then log in again for a new ride.

Anyone encounter this and know how to reconnect without ending the ride?

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I've only had that once. But I turned off my Bluetooth, unplugged Hammer, turned off heart rate monitor (using rhythm+, so you can physically turn it off, if you have something like a tickr, that might not be doable). Went to menu -- devices. Looked like they were waiting to pair. Turned everything back on and it worked again.

I will say that everything seems to work better if I restart my computer right before I start my ride and have no other Bluetooth devices connected. Have had zero problems since I started doing that. 2018 MBP.

Andy

Thanks - yeah fixed it this way today. I would hate for it to happen in a race.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I've had that - BT dropping on either AppleTV and/or Companion on iPhone. Companion tends to drop out more, so I put HR on there because the others affect the ride... I stop dead if cadence or watts disappear. Usually, I just soft pedal and they come back after a bit. Got tired of it and now use my laptop which has been solid - better image, all BT devices hook to it and it never drops. I still use companion but it cycles between maps and stats, or whatever that is and always displays numbers that are different than the main screen on the laptop.

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

Can Anyone advise where I am going wrong.

If I set up a route it never automatically stays on it it just seems to pick the turns needed at random.

How do I stop this from happening?

Cheers

Not to make an excuse for any cat. B "sandbagger" however I really think your last scentence is very important as well!

What I notice lately is that the level of competitors is crazy in most A races (often PCT and even WT pro's entering); from my experience, you'll need to avarage around 4.5-5 Wkg over race-distance and still barely break into top 10 on ZP ...basically able to stay with the lead-pack until a big hill comes up where the strong guys crank out > 6Wkg for 5min (or a shorter hill where they will do >8Wkg for a minute...)

So for someone with an ftp only slightly over Cat B limits (say 4-4.4Wkg) racing in A is impossible due to this huge performance gap. Therefore, I think an A-only cat is needed to solve the B-"sandbagging" and persuade some of these faster guys to start racing in A

EDIT: just to clarify ... only A races (no A+ riders allowed) are needed. And maybe another cat. for 4.5-5 Wkg riders as well ;-) then they can create another A++ cat for the 5wkg+ riders

Yes, A is really A then there is B. In B most times I end up beating people who are in A and being in the top 10 with a chance so I'm in the right grade.

My Triathlete lack of 15 sec and 5 minute power beats me every time. Some of the group rides are really good as well, yesterday we had a group, yes we road of the front, but an hour of Richmond with every corner the sauce on with efforts needed to hold in the bunch all the time, good old fashioned hour of power.

I'm right at the top of B's and have been thinking about fudging my weight UP to stay in the B Group...

---

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In lock down I don't need to fudge to gain weight, though I like fudge

It may seem random but if you just follow the automatic turns you'll complete the route. As others have noticed some of the routes can have a pretty long lead before the route actually starts.

Question to the thread.

When I look for events on my PC, the duration sometimes just says "1 lap" or "3 laps". But, it never say laps of what/where. I have no idea if I'm committing to 5 miles or 500 miles.

What am I missing?

I had the same misunderstanding.

Do not choose any of the turns. Just go where the computer takes you. Sometimes you pick up a segment in the middle of a route. THe London Loop comes to mind. During the London Loop you do the box hill climb. WHen you complete the climb, your London Loop timer comes back on.

Can someone confirm this: your first time doing a route does the clock run?

Yes, the clock does run, although it may not be visible for the entire route.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

This is a tiny bit of a brag but:

Since April 15 I've been on Zwift and doing it consistently. I have yet to ride outside, other than a couple of days pulling the kids around. Since then I've done 36 hours on Zwift (1004kms and 10,730m of climbing), and only 2 days that I did not ride. Minimum of 7 rides each week.

April 15 - off the couch (well, kinda, I haven't run or ridden in ages, but I've been in the water. Although with the lockdown, the last time I was in the water was early March). I had used TR before, but decided to go with Zwift this time since I have a TV in my workout area now. Did the intro ride and an initial FTP test, using the ramp test, at 268 watts*. I opted for the ramp test because ramp tests are easier to be consistent with.

April 17 - started the FTP Builder 6 week program (it's actually 7 weeks, because there's several workouts in a prep week before week 1 starts, but I digress). I'm also adding in easy to tempo / sweetspot rides on days that I don't have a scheduled workout, using those to put in things like going for PR's on KOM's.

April 19 - did my second "Tempo" workout of the program. 7th Zwift ride overall. This was the first one I had done with the HR Monitor. this had 4 x 3min intervals and 3 x 5 min intervals, the final 5 min interval was at roughly 220 watts and finished at 163bpm

skip ahead to April 27 - did another FTP test (same protocol, but this time after a 1 hour "Foundation" workout, which is basically a Z2 ride.) This time, FTP went up to 279

skip ahead to last night (May 19, so a little over a month in) - Threshold Development workout, so similar to the Tempo but a bit more intense. 5x3min at 240w with 2 min recovery (finshed that section at 138 bpm) and then immediately into 5x3min (2 min recovery) at 280W. (159 bpm on the last interval).

So in the space of 1 month, I've improved by about 60 watts at the same or slightly lower effort level. I have yet to repeat the FTP test, I'll probably reassess at the end of the 6 week program. I'm quite pleased with how this is going. I also picked up a couple of green jerseys along the way (I know, I'm on virtual power so they don't really count, but still, it's fun to go for them)


* the watts being reported are from virtual power, and are probably lower than that in reality. One of these days I'll finally rectify that situation.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I just finished my free month that came with the purchase of a new direct drive trainer. I'm not sold on the game's UI and Zwift Companion app, but riding and especially running indoors is far more fun now. I haven't tried any races yet, just followed the multi-sport mixer training plan as an intro. When I'm allowed to hit the trainer and treadmill again I will ante upping for at least a month or two until I my shoulder is fully recovered and I can swim again.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

I have similar stats to your FTP on Zwift. It says I am 277w, which came up after a 280w 1hr ride. I haven’t purely tested FTP but think it is a bit higher.

I did my first ride on Zwift April 20 and have logged 1296mi since then. I’m definitely a stronger rider after these miles and also haven’t really ridden outdoors much.

For now, I want to focus on Zwift and just increases in raw power from my quads. I’m pretty much almost where I want to be for my Sept 70.3 race.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Jumped into a Zwift race last night, placed 6th in the D's :-) (up to 3.1 w/kg). I was in a group sprinting for 3rd, but started my sprint too early and ran out of gas.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

are you in C now?

depends on the event, I guess. the one I did yesterday was a little different from the norm. there were 2 distances, the longer one was the A and B groups, the shorter one was the C and D, but the w/kg guidance was the same for A and C, as well as B and D. You could say that each race was split into 2 groups - A/B and C/D under the "normal" guidelines.

In most events with 4 w/kg divs, I'd be in the C's.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Zwift is good for raising FTP quickly, I've found that after a month of always suffering as Zwift is rarely easy, even on easy group rides it is always some hammering.

When my my roady arrives this week, I'll roll 500 km weeks just easy and then come back to zwift

Question for the group:

Did my first "workout" on Zwift last night and it wasn't nearly as smooth as Trainer Road.
1. Does the terrain play into the workout? I felt like even though I was mid-segment in a workout, there was power fluctations that seemed to correspond with the terrain changes.
2. Can I speed up the reaction within Zwift? When intervals started, there was a long lag before the wattage came up. Same for when intervals ended. On some of the shorter intervals, I essentially missed the interval all together.

In general, it was a pretty poor experience that left me frustrated as opposed to focused on the workout.

---

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I’m assuming that you’re on a smart trainer. Were you in erg mode? If you aren’t, then the terrain will matter. If you’re saying that you’re missing the interval, then it sounds like you’re on ramp mode.

By default, power is set for 3sec smoothing. What I’ve been doing is ramping up power (dumb trainer, so erg isn’t an option) 3secs before the interval starts and shutting down to the recovery target 2-3s before the interval ends. You could also turn off smoothing, but then I think the power would be quite spiky.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Good thought, I should have specified:
I'm on a Saris H2 and ERG mode.

To better explain, I could be going along in an interval with the feeling being steady, then I'd feel the power ease up maybe 20 watts. I'd look up at the screen and the terrain would ***seem*** be flattening. After a few seconds the trainer would recognize and bring me back to the prescribed power; as if the trainer was both trying to manage the prescribed powers and the grades within Zwift. I don't think it was drop-outs as I didn't have any Zero's reported. I understand this is completely anecdotal and likely me trying to find an explanation as to why there was so much fluctuation. Looking back at the file, When prescribed 275 there was an average of 275, a min of 258 and a max of 291, which is more than I'm used to. (and the min was in the middle of the interval, not the beginning or end).

Also, this wasn't a lag in my power numbers from one interval to the next, because Zwift generally matched my Computer, it was a lag in the actual Workload. E.g. Prescribed 350, but the trainer took 15 seconds to go from 250 to 350w (and also the same time back down again). In Trainerroad, it seems to only take 3 or so seconds.

I wasn't watching the screen intently throughout the workout because the slope changes did not correspond to my workout and it was confusing my oxygen deprived mind.

Set Up:
Zwift Reading Quarq Powermeter for Power and Cadence via Ant+
Zwift controlling H2 via Ant+

---

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

I'm very new to Zwift workouts, having done exactly one (a manually created copy of a TR workout.) I experienced this as well two nights ago; my recovery intervals would randomly drop from about 135w to about 65, for about 2seconds at a time. I didn't experience it in work intervals. Similarly, I have no idea.

Tonight, I'm going to try something new: Connect my Kickr (which supports multiple BT connections) to my BT on my computer and Zwift, and then (attempt) to control the Kickr using ERG from TR on my phone. It worked in my 5 minute test last night, so we'll see. In the meantime, I have an ANT+ adapter on order.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

Nice one!

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Decided to play around with the settings in pursuit of some believable numbers. I have a Tacx Bushido wheel on trainer which is known for under-estimating wattage. Last week I did some "testing" (not at all scientific).

On the Computrainer for my 20 min test, my NP was 250.7.

The day later, on Zwift, for the same 20 minutes effort my average power was 221.8.

Some messing around with the settings.

a) Set my weight as 130 lbs ( I am 150).

b) Set my FTP as 160.

Road 2 hours today.... a wide variety of paces and surprise! My FTP has now been upgraded to 184. Nice! That's just 2 watts shy of my average wattage for IMC last year.

What lessons have I learned from this??

What implications does this have for races on Zwift?

6 weeks none the wiser.

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Personally I'd try just using the H2 as the sole power and cadence source, otherwise you'll be getting a "push me, pull me type effect going on", all you have to do is concentrate on pedalling then.
Sure, run the Quarq, but just on your headunit - that way you a: have a back up, and b: have a 10 sec, and lap average, as i find the 3sec on zwift still a bit too changey.

I mostly use Zwift in training mode now with workouts imported from my coach and Today's Plan, but i tend to flip in and out of erg mode- use it for my warm up and cool down, but main block is done in simulation mode. I can still see what the workout steps are, its just its me thats driving them, and not the trainer.

If you know roughly what your workout is going to entail, then you can pick your world accordingly. Pointless trying do do sprint efforts if you're going up a 17% hill. Obviously if you are doing it all in erg mode then its a moot point as terrain changes are removed, but i do notice that if you are "going up a climb" with a fairly low wattage in erg, it does drop your virtual speed to simulate, and then the feel kind becomes a little clunky. Other than that its normally fine.

My new brake pads finally arrived in the mail today (My old ones were probably 15 years old, I really didn’t trust them anymore), so I slapped those on and took the bike out for a spin. First outside ride on the roadie in nearly 2 years, and it felt amazingly good. Granted, it was only a 5k loop around the neghbourhood, but that included a decent amount of climbing in such a short loop.

It was also my first outside ride on my steel bike in probably 10 years. That thing just rides sooooo nice and snappy compared to my carbon. The carbon is lighter, but the steel bike “seems” lighter in the saddle. Steel is real!

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Is there anyone out there using a Fenix 6 while zwifting? I did a planned workout from TrainingPeaks using zwift today where zwift was the primary data recorder. I have Garmin Vector 3 pedals and a Garmin cadence sensor which were paired with zwift before the workout began. Once the workout was completed and uploaded to GC, it didn't show any of the normal power data like Platform Center Offset, Pedal balance, etc. that one gets when just riding and not zwifting.

Note I did use the Virtual Run activity on my fenix 6 to record HR, but that seemed unnecessary as the data on GC included HR information.

Is there something I need to do before I start the zwift activity on either the zwift platform or the fenix 6 to be able to record the additional power data or is there no way to get this data when zwifting?

You need to record an indoor activity with the Fenix 6 and get that file to GC, the zwift file doesn't contain any of the extra information that Garmin collects.

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Tiago
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Sponsors: : Blueseventy :

Thanks!

I assume what you're saying is that I need to use the Bike Indoor activity on the fenix 6 while zwifting and not the Virtual Run activity. Is that correct?

TrainerRoad is rock steady on Bluetooth, almost perfect on ANT+. If I get through 60min of Zwift (either connection) without any dropout, I call it a win.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

Correct. Zwift will record just the simple metrics and that can be sent to Garmin Connect. To get the advance pedal metrics you do the Bike Indoor activity on the Fenix and send that to Garmin Connect.
At least that is the only way I found out to get the advanced metrics so far.

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Tiago
---------------------
Sponsors: : Blueseventy :

Quick Update:

Did a similar workout on Alpe but using only the H2 and not the Quarq and did not seem to have any issues.

---

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I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

I started Zwift about a month ago and did my first race today. It was humbling and way harder than I thought. I actually dropped out about halfway through because I was so nauseous. Among my many mistakes, I did not cool my basement enough before the race or have my fan on high enough. I was hot just from the 15 minutes I spent spinning before the race.

My FTP is 4.1 w/kg, which means I'm barely good enough to get my butt kicked by all the fastest riders. I tried to hang on with the front pack at the start, but the effort of that first five minutes killed me. Maybe I should race in the B category. Plenty of B riders would have beaten me had I finished. For that matter, so would many C riders.

Other than the pain of the first few minutes, the other big challenge for me was all the accelerations within the race. I'm a triathlete and am way more accustomed to the steady pace of a time trial. I was pretty overwhelmed visually too. The first 10-15 minutes I had trouble locating myself in the pack and was often slow to react to an acceleration, which then led me to overreact. Fall off the back, crank up the power, shoot through the pack off the front-- that is not an efficient way to race.

One thing I'm confused about is the number of people in the race. When I was in the race, Zwift was telling me my place out of roughly 190 people. But when I look at Zwift Power, there are results for only about 60 people. Is that typical? Does that mean a lot of participants are just not registered with Zwift Power?

What race did you do? With that many people it sounds like a crit. Perhaps one of the road races would be better.

---

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

I did the London 3R Classique Flat Race (23.4 m). It was six laps. I'd like to do a time trial, since that's a bit more familiar, but there seem to be fewer of those.

As mentioned upthread, one has to be able to do road racing style surges in Zwift. 4.1 w/kg, depending on your mass and strength, should be more than sufficient to place you top 10 in most races having up to ~50 riders.

Not everyone who Zwift's uses Zwift power. They do show up in the companion app though. 4.1 w/kg gets you in A grade, sadly though the bottom of A grade which means you are going to have to master the 1 minute hammer sit at over ftp for 5 and then sit around TH till the final sprint.

In A that's super hard which I suppose you expect it is A not C. With such a good FTP you should be able to compete in A once you master the other parts of the race.

Strategy 2 is go as hard a you can for the first minute, you should be in pack 1 unless you choose one of the big races. If you get shelled drop back to the next pack where there will be a ix of A and B with the odd C.

Here you'll see the biggest issue I have with the category system and in this case esp. the problem that exists in cat A (where you'll encounter some really strong riders each race).

@Zwift HQ: There just should be another separate race-cat on top (A+) as it is impossible to really compete in the A-cat with a ftp of 4.1wkg (which is still something to be very proud off!)

For reference, just looked into my ZP stats; in the races I've done in A I've never averaged under 4.4Wkg for 20min power (usually 4.7-5) and also always had to do >5Wkg for best 5min power (69kg). Despite this, I can barely break top 10 and definitely not contend for podiums, typically I can stay with the front-group however you'll need to be able to do some strong 1-5 min efforts and then "recover" at 4-4.5Wkg!
And if you encounter a big race with lot's of pro's then even above isn't sufficient to stay with the lead-pack, you'll def. need >5.5-6Wkg for 5 minutes and >7Wkg for 1 minute in that case

I'd even take it a step further and say: it seems like most races, especially if you're not in the lead pack of As, are essentially FTP rankings. That's not racing, that's a group FTP test.

So, rather than just complain, here's a proposed solution:
1) Zwift already has a massive amount of data about us as riders. Ascribe a rider profile based on 30s, 5min, 20min, and 60min power, with some flavor for absolute watts as well.

2) Schedule races as currently, but instead of massive groups, that break apart anyway, lump 20-50 riders of similar power together. Zwift can already 'hide' other riders in the world, so the races could all run simultaneously without influence on each other.

For added fun, implement an Xbox/Playstation style matchmaking system. Don't have time to commit to a long race, or maybe just wanna show up and go? Great, get matchmade with 7 other riders who are within fighting chance of you and have a quick 20min in Crit City.

Maybe it's because I spent my teens playing competitive Halo, but the biggest thing I remember about it is: games are fun when you feel like you have a chance of winning. Some of my most fun games I didn't even win, but I was damn close to it. Upgrading a Cat in Zwift is basically the opposite of fun: you doomed yourself to be shelled out for weeks, months, or maybe ever. People say that Zwift should auto upgrade; I say that Zwift should promote an environment in which people aren't disincentivized from upgrading.

And I know, I know, irl races don't ensure you're perfectly matched. But to that I'd say: 1) this isn't irl racing. 2) IRL, lower power riders have other options to stay competitive. Ride better lines, surf the field better, descend faster, etc etc. Real racing isn't just a power test either.

Heck, I'm mid-upper B, and I barely even race. I am trying to get into it more and more, but I just don't feel like it for the same reason I don't feel like doing 40min at FTP. Instead, I stay in TrainerRoad trying to get stronger and stronger so I too can get my ass kicked by the As. Riders who are not at the upper end of a cat don't have a big incentive to race, and riders who are at the upper end of a cat aren't challenged by the lower riders. I'd love a system that basically made it so that everyone in the group at least has a fighting chance.

Hell, you really wanna step up, implement a 4v4 Team Pursuit sim with 7 strangers. So now it's not even just you vs the other riders, it's all of you working together to throw down some hard over/under threshold efforts.

Now I'm just rambling, but it just frustrates me how damn fun Zwift could be. I also know I'm asking way too much from a company that can't make a route profile show the full route or even keep the direction of travel on that profile the same.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

Not really complaining for myself as splitting A and A+ will only result in myself placing even lower in races :-)
At least now I have the illusion to be competitive until 2km to go (unless the real strong guys compete, then you'll be dropped on any serious incline/hill), in the end these races will def. make you stronger which is what its all about.

I agree that to some extend, zwift racing is sort of a group FTP-test.
Of course in real-life you also have two sides to racing, first of all; you need to be able to stay with the pack (esp. in crosswinds or hills) .. this can be regarded as the "group ftp-test" side of zwift racing.
On top of that the better riders will be able to break away / create splits / survive splits etc.
However now in cat A we have the strongish regional club-riders competing with WT riders something you won't see in the open races around here (Netherlands/Belgium)

Regarding your 2nd bullet; this would indeed be a great option for races with huge attendence and would benefit all of us (stronger and weaker riders).
Just group the riders in the starting pens based on some "power-profile" such that the strong riders don't end up behind splits and weaker riders are not demotivated instantly. Still think though that 20/5min power are most important parameter as this will define whether you can stay with the bunch for 90% of the course.

As a last advice, be aware of the course-profile before you sign up and make sure to enter races that suit your strengths (esp. important for non A+ riders)

Yeah, for sure. And I guess it's worth calling out too: I'm definitely aware that not everyone can win, ha. It does seem like sometimes people make reccs for how to 'fix' Zwift that basically boil down to 'People faster than me should be in another cat and people slower than me should be in mine," haha. I'd be happy to never win a race as long as I felt like I could.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

Possibly we need additional grades. I'm 46 and can compete in B grade races. You would think in the population of cyclists that I would end up in around Cat 3.

Just like the real world when a pro or very good amateur shows up the top grade (A where I live) the A grade gets done.

Every time we start thread on Zwift, the algorithm the categories we find out that its just like the real world, if you don't make the move you are done and not getting back on.

People who ride A are going to have FTP over 300 and 5 min 15 second power that is going to hurt you.

I think you're onto something here. I'd much rather race against a few like-ability riders than a larger pack that breaks up.

These rankings are already being done in Zwiftpower, the system just needs to be refined, adopted, and utilized.

The changing direction of travel on the profile also drives me crazy

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Zwift, whatever its fault may be, is still based on real life mass start road racing, and that really isn't "fun" for the vast majority of people. One has to have some level of introspection to understand if one's deriving enjoyment for internal reasons or external reasons (as in, rankings and results). I would go so far to say that if one's looking at the wrong outlet to obtain "fun" if one is looking to zwift racing or IRL racing as the means to obtain it.

There's a reason why Cat-3 in the U.S. (basically middle of the amateur system used in bike racing in the U.S.) is known as the "ultimate cat". For one, to get there requires some level of aptitude (though some does upgrade from cat-4 via number of races completed). The second is that this is the ultimate destination for most, as (a) upgrade to cat-2 always requires actual upgrade points earned and as (b) cat-3 represents to physiological limit for most racers.

The second section of your post I bolded applies to most who upgrade to cat-3 and even more of those who upgrade to cat-2. Chances dry up for most once the upgrade is made, and one has to start asking the question, is the enjoyment coming from actually racing a bike, or is the enjoyment coming from doing well (echoing a point you made in your post). Zwift, in this regard, is no different.

While some deficiency in FTP (or rather, repeatable 3-8 min efforts, I would argue) may be mitigated by better race craft, there are very few ways one could overcome 50 W absolute difference or 0.75 W/kg in the real world. At that level, one has to do the (boring/dispiriting) time to have a chance to improve (assuming one could improve), and this may take up to three years of focused training, just to have a chance, all the while getting repeated shelled in races. That apprenticeship period is no one's definition of fun, and many end up quitting the sport altogether. For this reason, I have much more admiration for the category lifers than I do for those who rocket their way up the category. The latter basically utilized inherent skills (whether physiological or bike-racing specific), while the former are doing it for the love of it.

Mass-start bike racing is a sport for masochists. Almost all participants live a life of asceticism and discipline just to be competitive, yet most end up getting flogged by the competition anyway. Ironically, the handicapped system (as in, the categorization) may have something to do with this mentality, as least in the U.S. Relatively speaking, the percentile of those with a 4.5 w/kg FTP is comparable to those who could at least attain the old BQ standards. In both sports, there is be a gulf between being very good vs someone who could make a living doing it. Yet in cycling, the attention is turned to how one does relative to one's own percentile cohort and how one moves up to the next cohort a further 5 percentile upward, while losing track that 75th percentile and 85th percentile both means not much more than a gifted amateur. In running, one already realizes one's place in the big overall picture, and for that reason, one's more concerned about improving one's own performance, as opposed to one's performance against one's own cohort (thereby avoiding all the social anxieties that come with it)

These are points well made, bike racing joy is not derived from winning as you hardly and in many cases never win. Heck most people who race week after week are never in a position to win.

The joy comes from getting smashed every time you race and the one or two good days a year when your attack sticks or you win a sprint

I can't say I disagree with any of your points, because objectively they're pretty much all 'correct.' I suppose it comes down to a zoomed out view of 'what is Zwift?' Without diving deep into a needlessly over-analyzed discussion, maybe that's why we slightly diverge. I already don't think of Zwift as a race-simulator, so maybe that's why I'm more comfortable with 'leaning into' things that aren't quite irl-based, but in my mind would make Zwift more fun. I think of apps like RGT as more analogous to actual 'simulators.'

But ultimately, I know that a lot of people happily pay for Zwift as is, so maybe making sweeping changes isn't what's needed. I don't think I see myself in Zwift long term; right now it's mostly a visual backing behind TrainerRoad. I'm all for whatever improvements they make to racing, though.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

I posted last week about getting destroyed in my first race. I took a second shot at a race today and played it a little smarter. I cooled the room more and did not try to hang with the leaders like I did in my first race. I was pleased at how hard the race made me go- there is nothing like competition to bring out your best effort. I raised my FTP from 4.1 to 4.37 w/kg, which is a pretty significant jump. On the downside, I finished dead last in the A category. Last! Several from the B category beat me too, even though most of them averaged a lower w/kg. I'm assuming that means my racing tactics are poor. I guess it just takes practice to learn how to position yourself in the pack and conserve energy.

I have to say that I'm not accustomed to finishing last- that's kind of weird. But I enjoyed it anyway. I may never threaten the podium, or even a top ten, but it is fun just going toe-to-toe with whomever you end up being around.

Have you ever done any mass start road racing? If not, it's quite a different beast from triathlons, even if one nominally has the same FTP.

Also, is this particular event one with staggered start (as in, Bs start before or after you do)? That also changes the dynamics quite a bit (re: who might place ahead of you and such).

Lastly, while your tactics may need work, more likely (and I'm inferring this from your posts), it sounds like you got dropped, while the B racers werent? One thing that few people appreciate is just how unrealistic the drafting is. The aerodynamics for a solo rider actually isn't too bad, as it inflates speed only a little bit. On the Tempus Fugit course, 220 W (at 71 kg) gets me 37 kph. Still faster than I would do in real life (I think 34-35 kph is more likely), but not too far off. In a group where the top riders average 240-250 W, that group averages a cool 44 kph. Just silly speeds. I have a CdA of around 0.21, and it would take me ~280-290 W on my TT bike (with the full get up, Body Paint suit, discs, etc), to do 44 kph. On Zwift, a small group on road bikes could do it, at less power no less. Otoh, on the Zwift TT bike, i barely average 42 kph while doing 290 W. Much of that speed is down to the shite group aerodynamic simulation.

On a tangent, if you are a triathlete in real life, I wouldn't recommend you to change your training too much just to do better in Zwift. Years ago, I got a relatively high FTP (305 W at 68 kg), but I sucked at actual road racing (in a cat-4 field). Did fine at one race that went up a long climb twice, but I had no punch for the other races (was never dropped, but couldn't create breaks and drive them). I achieved this FTP based on the notion that FTP is king, which was the mantra to which many subscribe here. The problem is that while this mantra is applicable to a lot of triathletes, it neglects the physiological demands of road racing.

At about time of that race, I also began working with my coach, and some of the stuff he had me done appeared down right ridiculous. At the beginning, I couldn't even get through 10 minutes of a prescribed 30-minute workout; however, those workouts focused on the efforts one needs to attack and create separation. I also got sick during that race with the long climbs, and my form took a hit (gained about 3.5 kg and lost a bit of FTP). As I wasn't completing the workouts based on a supposed 300 W threshold anyway, I took a haircut and was doing them based on a 290 W threshold. They were still hard, but at least completing 70% of the prescribed workout. To be honest, I wasn't quite sure what to make with the new training methodology, but I knew my old approach was definitely off. Then, when I least expected to do well (at 71.5 kg and 290 W), I was able to dictate a race where a few months ago I couldn't. Earned my first points to cat-3 upgrade during that race, despite having lower FTP. A year later I showed up to the beginning of the season at 290 W and 69.5 kg, and basically earned all of my upgrade points at those numbers, despite the 290 W being 15 W lower than what was my PB at the time.

I should note that when I was doing the hard 30-minute interval, it was a threshold over-under, with the average just below the threshold at completion (so avg power of ~98.5% FTP). When I was doing workouts based on 305 W FTP, those were done as close to 305 W as possible. Funny enough, IF of the former isn't actually that high (right around 1.01), but what it trains for doesn't get captured in the common analysis metrics.

I got my bike back from the shop and finally was able to use the fastest two gears on my bike (new derailleur).

I did a Crit City (B) race and it was a lot of fun! HR was super high for me at 179bpm avg and 187bpm peak. I had no idea I could get so high of a HR that quickly and hold it even - I was looking at the screen like hmmm I almost feel like I'm dying right now, especially the last 1/2 mile.

It seemed to be key in pacing with the peloton and not leading too much. I took the lead a few times during the race, but I think I could have saved energy retrospectively if I just chilled out. Because, I couldn't hold the lead when I took it with 1/2 mile to go and faded and lost the peloton at the end. I was pretty dead at the end!

Zwift registered a new FTP for me of 277w to 320w. I think my FTP was around there anyway, but just hadn't registered such an effort before with a power meter.

Cheers

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Did Crit City race again today. 5th! Pretty happy with that. I stayed in the pack more and took breaks when they took breaks.

At 184lbs today. Raced 9.8mi at 4.0w/kg. 333W for 20:43.3. HR 175 avg 189 max - yeahhh buddy.

Racing really helps me to kick it in high gear. I thought I had a chance at first today and only missed it by half a second. I need to work on a stronger finish next time for the last 0.2 of the race.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Wow - ave. h.r. of 175. How does that compare to your running heart rate.

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

My typical run HR avg is 150bpm to 170bpm. Earlier in the week I did a 6:17/mi pace Treadmill 5K (19:30) 153HR avg (175 max) followed by a 6:08/mi pace Treadmill 5K (19:00) 158HR avg (180 max).

It’s amazing for me to be able to get my HR so high on the indoor cycling trainer. I used not to be able to get it past 150s, but the race element helps me a lot. Also, I feel super in the zone in the 170s and almost out of it and feel anxious to go there in running except for maybe 800m repeats.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Has anyone been having problems with the chat lately? the last 3-4 rides it seems like my chat was not working, considering that one of reasons that I am on Zwift (say vs Rouvy) is the social aspect, this is really bugging me.

Yeah I can’t access Zwift companion chat anymore. My rides don’t show up on my phone when riding - not sure why.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Ok thanks, I wanted to make sure it wasn't just me before I complain to Zwift.

As y'all may have noticed. Yesterday this thread celebrated (?) it's two month anniversary. Chances are that very few of us at this point are "6 weeks and less" yet I am not a hell of a lot the wiser. A few musings from the OP.

Chat? How do you do that? Yesterday I was on a HERD Mellow Monday Ride. Someone announces "this is my first ride on Zwift." They are chatting. On their first ride! I've spent more time in Watopia than my wife and I still can't/won't/don't know how to chat. I suspect I am in the silent majority.

Gears? Those are for chumps. I've finally become honest with myself enough to the point that I know I suck at changing gears and the dynamic moves that are part of road racing, especially on those damn undulating courses like the grove. For stuff like that I just use ANT instead of Bluetooth and ride "dumb trainer" style, no need to change gears, just think you have FIXIE and all will be well.

Cheating? Never. I REALLY am 97 pounds. That gives me an HONEST chance at riding with the D group of many rides.

.... what are your experiences?

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Chat is very simple (when it is in the mood of working), but you need to download the Zwift companion app, you can't do it on the actual Zwift app (is this dumb, 100% yes), just go to the app store and look for the companion app for your phone.

Gears, to me I treat it the same as being out on the road IRL, I change gears allot.
I didn't even know there was a dumb trainer mode, haha so there is that.

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http://www.instagram.com/cyclewise

I'm getting better at racing but got crushed on a hill climb today.

I think my only hope at 1st in a B race is at Crit City on the 9.8mi mostly flat course. Hopefully this week? I find these 20min races crazy intense and hate starting them but love to finish them. Having fun!

Cheers

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Sure, the chat is simple when it works. Most of the time now I only use the Zwift companion app to sign up for races. The chat doesn't work anymore.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I didn't realize that it was common knowledge that the chat was broken, if this is indeed the case this is a problem for me, part of what I pay for is the chat feature.
Did Zwift acknowledge this yet?

I was just banking on others to complain and it eventually being fixed through a software update.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

1. Thank you for this thread, it has been a great help.
2. My city went into lockdown March 30 and I got on my bike for first time in five years (couldn't even look at it after Savageman 2015).
3. Since then I've put in 2900 km/1800 miles on Zwift.
4. In general, I am an unimpressive cyclist, usually mid-pack in any given triathlon.
5. However, doing nothing but cycling for three months has improved my w/kg by a considerable margin. Specificity is a thing I guess.
6. Whereas in running I am a fervent proponent of going slow 85% of the time, Zwift has too many incentives to ride hard every day: leveling up, chasing segments, races, even going to the front on easy group rides.
7. If you get in a race with me, rejoice, for I will sprint too soon, lose your back wheel on a climb, or otherwise ride like a nitwit to your immediate benefit.
8. Zwift has also rekindled some long-dormant gear lust, as now I want to buy all the frames in the virtual garage. Sneaky!
9. Zwift (and my Kickr) have kept me sane and fit over the past three months.
10. If only I could level up faster!

Too funny... I would pay extra to NOT have that annoying chat feature!

I don't understand how people have the energy to pick up their phone and type while riding. Or have anything more than superficial conversations with strangers in a group. It makes no sense to me.

When I ride with my "team" we also have a Zoom going at the same time. Much easier to speak words at my laptop camera than it is to pick up a phone and type when we are all working hard

While I do agree with you that it's silly, I am not doing any group rides IRL right now, nor am I seeing any friends or work colleagues IRL, so this basically amounts to some human interaction for me as superficial as it may be, it's one of the reasons (along with group rides) that I switched from Rouvy to Zwift (and am paying almost double) when Corona hit. Yesterday I did 2 group rides and not having the chat really took allot of the fun out of it for me.

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http://www.instagram.com/cyclewise

Zwift newbie here... it's been a game-changer for me... could never muster more than 30 minutes on the trainer...now a 2-hour ride on Zwift is "enjoyable". Just joined Zwift Power but haven't done a mass-start race yet...only time trials ..doing Bologna weekly to gauge my fitness.. Completed the 12-hour Solitary Confinement ride so never want to see the Tempus Fugit course again!
Haven't had any issues with the Zwift platform...running it on an iPhone-7 connected via lightning-HDMI adapter to 42inch TV and running the companion app on an old iPhone -6. Chat function works fine.
my wife claims I'm now "addicted" . Ride On!