Are you battling with a recurring injury

and/or looking for a pb on race day?

If its an interest in being able to squeeze a few more miles out in training safely then my suggestion would be get some Hoka Clifton on sale so you aren't tempted to return them and just gradually do more in them until you know if they are for you.

Not recurring, but I am on an undesired break from running at the moment (see above)



Yes – who isn't!?



So the Clifton is a safe/recommended place to start? I was looking at the Rincon, but if it's easier to find deals on Cliftons then that may make the choice easier.

I spent a number of years in different levels of ‘minimal’ shoes (as thin as the Vibram Five Fingers and Altria Sampson) and nothing over 20mm. I decided give Hokas (Bondi 6) a try after hearing so many many people rave about them. I wasn’t a big fan of them and after a month of doing half my miles in them (just too soft) I developed really bad Achilles tendinitis and had to take 3 months off to let it heal. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but I got rid of them and don’t plan on ever trying Hokas again.

That said I do like the 4% for fast runs and racing

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I think the Rincon is a reasonable price but still a bit new to get deals on. Cliftons have been around a long time and you can normally get good deals on last years. I just find them comfortable. I've never tried the Bondi but that may just be the psychology of choice and not going the extreme. If you can find a Napali or a Clifton reissue they might be worth a go. The Hoka Fly range seem firmer in the forefoot. The Elevon is ok for instance I just prefer the Clifton. Dan has lots of Hoka articles here that are good reads.

I tried a Hoka you can't get anymore out of desperation with Achilles problems. At the same time I switched to a little and often approach rather than trying to do runs I'd done before with rest days in between. Someone here said tendons don't like too much load and don't like no load (except when it's acutely injured. So you are looking for the Goldilocks load that you personally can do today, tomorrow and 6 or 7 times a week while it gets stronger. It felt silly going out for a 10/15 minute run in clown shoes but it works and it's not long before you get confidence back and you can increase it. I am back to proper running now and I only get hurt if I do something silly like do a 12 mile on a whim I haven't built up to.

Good luck.

I had the same story and I tried to correlate the Achilles with soft cushioning but could not find any scientific explanation. I am on 4% now since 2 months and I love them. I hope they will not generate the same injury...

I don't think you're missing anything. If anything, if I were you I'd stick with the minimalist shoes!
I did barefoot/minimalist for about 2 years not too long ago after 20+ yrs of normal shoe running. It was one of the hardest, most frustrating things in terms of building up I did - I literally went from a sub 19 5k runner to not even being able to race at all for 6+ months since the transition was tough on my achilles (which I am lucky to not have any injuries with.)

The good things were many - I actually think most people who can run injury free with minimalist SHOULD go minimalist, for the following:

- Forces a proper slow mileage buildup. You can't just go hog wild one day and run 20 miles on a base of 5 mpw - your achilles will rebel and you'll halt pretty quickly.
- Forces much better run form in terms of good posture and balance on the feet. I honestly think Lionel Sanders would improve his stride form significantly if he tried minimalist shoes for technique improvement and slowly incorporated more of it - his clompy heel strike stride is nearly impossible with barefoot/minimalist shoes.
- Makes you much more aware of how to respond best to terrain changes with many different types of strides and cadences, which is great for form and run efficiency. (In contrast, you can bulldoze your way through the same terrain with big cushiony shoes, but it's likely slower and def a lot less graceful.)
- Light = FAST. I ran my fastest triathlon runs with minimalist shoes.
- And this is my theory, but one that definitely applied to me - since the minimalist shoes much more emphasize achilles/calf and spare the quad, you don't have as much run fatigue coming off the bike as you're engaging a different set of muscles (not just all quad). That was definitely true for me - was very noticeable to me off the bike where I'd just take off on the minimalist shoes since my calves/achilles were good to go after a hard bike.

Alas, I now run in big cushy Hoka Bondi 6s. I have MRI confirmed advanced arthritis in my ankles in my mere mid40s , and the minimalist shoes seemed to unfortunately aggravate the pain due to the higher forces on the lower leg/ankle (rather than quad). I'm happy to report that the cushiony shoes seem to have got me back to running as long as I keep my mileage not too high, but I def have taken a significant hit on speed and form as a result. Wish I could go back to minimalist, though, for all the reasons above.

I’m just coming off a grade 2 calf strain, and haven’t ruled out my Hokas as the cause. Have the Napali (Rincon replaced the Napali) and the Clifton 4. I purchased some cushioned shoes (New Balance Beacon also) to help with knee pain, and it helped greatly. However after runs with the Naples my Achilles was sore, to the point were I had to take a day off to recover. Didn’t seem to have that issue with the Clifton 4 and my knee was pain free after the run. Then during a run in the Napali my calf tore. Could just be coincidence and I am going to slowly work the shoes back into my rotation because they were great for my knee pain reduction. Plan is to may close attention to the start of Achilles pain as the early indicator.

I’m just coming off a grade 2 calf strain, and haven’t ruled out my Hokas as the cause. Have the Napali (Rincon replaced the Napali) and the Clifton 4. I purchased some cushioned shoes (New Balance Beacon also) to help with knee pain, and it helped greatly. However after runs with the Naples my Achilles was sore, to the point were I had to take a day off to recover. Didn’t seem to have that issue with the Clifton 4 and my knee was pain free after the run. Then during a run in the Napali my calf tore. Could just be coincidence and I am going to slowly work the shoes back into my rotation because they were great for my knee pain reduction. Plan is to may close attention to the start of Achilles pain as the early indicator.

The Napali has good cushioning but at least for me, has a noticeably more forward footstrike tendency with a lot less heel striking. It actually feels more like a minimalist-style footstrike to me, just with a lot of padding under the front. My form with the Napali is definitely slightly different from my Bondi6 run style, where heel striking is even encouraged by the huge rear cushion.

The Bondi6 is more forgiving in that you can literally clomp your way through your run my completely heel striking the whole way, even in ugly fashion, but I'm skeptical as to whether that's a better practice than the more correct and agile mid-forefoot strike once you're properly acclimated to it. (I don't race Oly or shorter in Bondis - too heavy and clunky.)

+1

I've been using low drop minimal shoes for all marathons. But this year I'm in 'need to change something' mood, so I'm going to give Hoka's a shot.

High cushion shoes do not work for me, just due to my specific issues.

Growing up running cross country, I rolled my ankle so many times that now my ankles can roll all the way over without injury. I just hobble two steps, and carry on.

Except in high cushion shoes. When those things roll, it's bad for me. I had two bad ankle rolls for the first time in like 30 years when I was trying out Hokas. My first significant running injuries of any kind in decades.

So not for me.

or, are you pretty well sure that this is likely to happen, so you've made the decision to eschew this shoe type?

No, it happened twice to me. Once was just running in the dark, and I missed a sidewalk crack, rolled. That sidelined me for about 3 weeks, which rolling my ankle has never done.

The 2nd was in a race. I was bombing downhill (my lifelong specialty). And I was in love with the Hoka for revitalizing that specialty. But rolled my ankle, and ended my race.

N=2, and it could have just been freak accidents. But being the first time in decades that I hadn't just carried on after rolling, it was enough for me.

I'm not anti-Hoka. I was loving them. And my ankles are genuinely freakishly messed up. They roll super easy. So it's a purely personal issue.

. i'm not nearly smart enough to execute this. my body has taken it upon itself to do this out of self-preservation, bypassing my decision portal.

Ha, yes! I do that exact thing. I know it well. It's a key part of my downhill bombing barely-in-control survival strategy.

Like I just mentioned to lighttheir, I might give it another go. I was using very early Hokas (I'm a sucker for any new tech), and it very well might have been the Conquest that you mention.

Ha, yes! I do that exact thing. I know it well. It's a key part of my downhill bombing barely-in-control survival strategy.

Like I just mentioned to lighttheir, I might give it another go. I was using very early Hokas (I'm a sucker for any new tech), and it very well might have been the Conquest that you mention.

First rule of thumb is every runner is different. It was inevitable the pendulum was going to swing off minimalism. Hoka One One came out at the exact right time when guys like Monty were struggling to actually be able to run and others were coming off the minimalism bandwagon with nagging injuries. It doesn’t sound like you are either one of those. Well there is only one Monty.

More cushion doesn’t not lead to more miles. It can of course but so can any shoe. Ideally you own more than one shoe. I suggest 3.

1. General Go To shoe - One you know will work. When you feel like crap and don’t want to run, you reach for this shoe because you know it’s the difference maker. Personally that shoe right now for me is the Pegasus Turbo 2 from Nike.

2. Long Run Shoe - Any run 90 minutes or longer. You want a shoe that is going to continue to feel good through the entire run. Some runners do go to more shoe here but it’s not always the case. Personally for me it depends on the terrain. If I happen to be on the roads I use the Carbon X from Hoka One One. Rarely am I on the roads so it’s usually a trail shoe from Nike or On.

3. Race day shoe - This one you bring out for races and any time you are on the track or doing a track like workout on roads or trails. The idea is to feel fast when trying to run fast. For that it’s the Vapor Fly 4% Flyknit.


The right combination of shoes for you should be of great help to you running more miles. There isn’t one shoe that is going to do it. You are not the same runner day in a day out and if you are doing any structure your pacing is not the same day in and day out.