1. If you're going to put yourself out there then you better be ready for criticism.
2. If your going to push bad information you really better be ready for criticism!!!!!
3. He makes a good point when he says his base should be people just starting off. Great idea but are the people just starting off buying all that swag and all that expensive s*** he's got hanging out in the background. And shouldn't the people just starting off really be the ones that we are making sure get good information.

I only found him recently. Good promotion and pushing some of the existing problems

Glad dan plews is coaching. I can learn for near free

His videos got me through my 1st sprint, then on to multiple Tri's, including a couple 70.3's and a full IM.

I spent hours watching his videos with sweaty palms from being so nervous about my first Tri.

He got me in the sport.

Mehhhhh just his quarterly pitty beg video he always does. Instead of deleting all of the negative comments and playing victim if he actually listened to them he would make a huge leap forward.

People complaining for example that you're spruicking mega expensive carbon soles and claiming they give you 80 extra watts is BS isnt them being trolls or negative, it's reality and he should stop doing it.

 

People complaining for example that you're spruicking mega expensive carbon soles and claiming they give you 80 extra watts is BS isnt them being trolls or negative, it's reality and he should stop doing it.[/quote]

Perfectly said!

I thought it was a good video and a positive step forward as far as where he wants and should focus his efforts. I think he has been and can be a very solid influence for new triathletes.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Agreed.

I feel he has done a lot better on acknowledging who is audience is.

Of course some of the stuff he does is BS. At the same time I think a lot of people think they believe they know what he wants to do, when in reality they do not.

I don't think he was playing the victim card. He just made people aware of the fact he is reading all the comments and that it hurts when people get personal. I don't think he said he should be immune to critique. But when people write things like what was written in the locked thread you can't really defend yourself. How do you argue against someone who calls you out for hair colour or alleged sexuality? He was pretty transparent regarding earnings from youtube and what he needs to do to pay the bills. Great video IMO.

But haters will always hate

Playing the victim was exactly what he was doing. He has done about 5 vids like this already where he knows all the fans boys will come and post about how awesome he is.

I don't think anyone has a problem with him making money or having adds-i sure as heck want him to succeed. But, and it's a big but, when you have clearly stated your target audience are newbs who don't know any better then you have a responsibility to give them accurate information.

Spruicking crap like carbon insoles saying they give another 80 watts is just embarassing and I feel for any of his followers who get sucked in by that stuff.

He has also said other stupid stuff at times that is just plain wrong such as MCT oil doesn't take you out of ketosis because it's clear (wtf) and that whey protein is catabolic (this means breaks tissue down instead of building it)

When he makes statements like this he need to expect people to call him out and he should admit he made a mistake a correct himself. Not stick his head in the sand crying haters gunna hate...

Does mct oil take you out of ketosis?

The dude is hustling. He found away to make his hobby into his career. Good for him. Haters are always going to hate.

The only thing that I don’t like about his videos is when he walks around in his speedos on camera. Get some jammers!!!!

if it does or it doesn't it's color has absolutely no bearing lol..

Haters are going to hate is the lamest saying...it's funny, it's like morons think it's the get out of everything card.

"Hey did you know that the world is flat!"

Umm no its not, science proves that it's not

"Pfffttt...haters gunna hate"

This is the part where I chime in and remind everyone that jammers look stupid.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I understand by its very nature this post is counter productive, but if we all just ignored his garbage he would go away. I understand the need of many to point out his schilling and lies, but it just would rather see him fade away in to oblivion.

Why would you want someone who is enthusiastic about the sport and tries to encourage new people to try out this whole triathlon thing to “fade into oblivion”?

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Depends on how you use it.

Your analogy with the earth being flat isn't really accurate in this situation. To prove that the earth is flat is rather simple, hence it is not debatable. It is a fact. Whether Taren is right in addressing his haters is somewhat more complicated. One part of the critics is the ones addressing the problem you adress; his responsibility regarding noobs in Tri. But even though you stop there, and are right in (most) assessment, others continue to the personal level. And that part of the critics is the problem here. In my opinion they are the ones Taren adressed in the video. Since you seem to think he targets criticism across the board, we don't agree. This is of course up for interpretation but I considered you highly critical, when I wrote my last post, to the point where I wondered if Taren could ever do anything right in your eyes. ( Which you adressed in your post to me. I don't think he will retract any statement , though I agree with you so now I know what you want)

That is why I wrote haters are going to hate. Not that I think it would get neither me nor Taren out of anything.

Tempting, but I am not going to bite (again)

If everyone on ST ignored him, his viewership numbers would be just fine.

Is this a misstatement or is this what you meant?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Briefs look better than jammers, if you are fit with very low body fat. Otherwise jammers look better, because they’re less revealing. IMO it is taboo for a guy to wear a shirt with briefs on the pool deck. It’s just not a good look.

In terms of haters, I’m guessing he’s referring to critics. I have no problem with him putting out a video addressing it. There were some comments that were uncalled for in another thread. As well, he did explain that he’s not just promoting products for profit. That’s his take, although myself and many others would disagree. He has to make money for and from sponsors, but he needs to be careful about misinformation. It’s kind of a tough spot when it’s your livelihood and you believe you’re being honest.

I have noticed that he has put up a few self pity videos. Lionel does a lot of this too, but it just looks different because he’s overly critical of himself so people take it better. I’m not a fan of that type of message. It seems to pump up the base and provides reassurance. I think it shows a lack of confidence and accountability.

Overall, I find him very entertaining and he provides some good information for beginners. I’d like to see him succeed. I do hope he stops putting out bad information though (ie. 80 watt sole stars) but I do realize he has become a salesman for his sponsors in addition to a triathlon vlogger/coach.

Are you saying what I think you’re saying?

I disagree with concept of 'Taren haters'. There is nothing awful about the guy personally and I seriously doubt anybody hates him personally. There is something wrong with what he's doing conceptually and this concept is a valid reason for negative emotions. Some people might mix those things up.

What's wrong with him is Marketing. American Marketing, however it's pretty much the same across the world, it's just US is the most successful it it. The goal is to make money, but deliver the best product to improve people's life is not the only acceptable way to do it. Other ways, like lie, bite-and-switch, hiding truth, etc. are perfectly acceptable as long as you don't get sued. As long as 'guy has to make a living', it's all fine.

Well, I say it's not. It's not fine to make living by lying. Put me in the list of 'Taren haters, who's gonna hate' if it's what it takes, but I just hate Marketing.

Not saying anything. Just asking for clarification.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I just have one question from the video and it has nothing to do with Taren.....At that pool, the lane closest to the wall is either too wide or whatever, but what is there another lane rope that's like 1 foot from the wall?

Did someone just not measure properly when building a pool and that one lane was too wide, so they had to put in another lane divider and create an 1' lane?

I've seen it on occassion, rarely but it seems to be a thing, somehow. Or maybe it serves a purpose? Is it a divider so that all the lanes get the same splash/absorbant and the wall lanes don't get extra water movement?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

That’s a pretty standard way to build a competition pool, the lane line is there to absorb waves that would otherwise bounce back off the wall.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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That makes sense. Thx

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

To me he lost any credibility he had when I saw his video about ventum bike where he was spewing the ventum is ‘18 min faster’ over an Ironman than any other bike bull shit. Like, come on, taren. You don’t expect to get some ‘hate’ for spewing crap like that?!

I don't hate the guy, but I also dislike that sort of marketing. I think he has Joe Rogan disease. He knows a little, but then he talks to a lot of different people with differing opinions/slants on things (including marketing material) but doesn't know how to place all of that info into the proper context or how to objectively evaluate claims. That isn't something unique to him or triathlon, but triathlon does have a lot of these folks. I don't think their intent is bad, but they don't know what they don't know. I've often pointed out that it's the Dunning Kruger effect. That's not an attack on people who perpetrate it. It's an observation. Taren's response to honest critics is why he gets some of the reactions he does.

This is true, as I watched him for a year before I knew there was a Slowtwitch.

Maybe ST should run YouTube ads on his channel...

Stop debating the not debatable.

Just to keep up the side conversation.. it doesn't matter how fit you are, if you have pale thighs briefs will always look stupid.

Just to add to that, at a lot of pools they’ll leave those lane lines out during regular training and lane swim times, only putting them in for competition. That’s one reason you may not have noticed them before.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

That would ruin him. His show could not support honest facts.

Maybe he should interview kellyanne Conway and they couldn't discuss alternative facts.

And jammers are STILL worse than that....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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The double entendre in strong with this one. Rrroowrrr

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Agree with the American marketing reference. Hell keep it in the world of triathlon and look at how many bike companies claim they have the "fastest bike in the world" and then skew the wind tunnel data, keep other bikes out, etc to make that claim.

People cannot say Taren is a liar or that he isn't honest and then say most triathlon advertising is. It's pure BS.

I think after he declared his true audience the part he could improve upon is making the information a bit more simply and not as overwhelming as it is. If I were a beginner those videos would be a lot of digest.

Then again he produces content. every. single. day. So that might be part of the issue.

He's good for the sport and no worse than other companies and what they do.

There’s a big difference between a corporation marketing their product and an individual presenting himself as an unbiased reviewer.

Of course this is what I meant. Pull out your binoculars and look have far you are able to see. Clearly this shows that the earth is flat. It has nothing to do with the local flatness property of a sphere...

No, it was a misstatement. I wanted to write "To prove that the earth is NOT flat is rather simple"

My complaint with his specific content, and this came only from 1 podcast. I'm all for having sponsors. Go ahead and add those 2 min informercials so you can get paid. But dont then tell me in a "trial" that you do and put up that said product is the best. Hell don't even give me a trial comparison cus I'm not even going to be bothered by looking at your results of the "test". I'm going to call biased bullshit.

I don't know if that's how every sponsored product is on his podcasts. And I'm totally fine with "hustling" and getting sponsors. I'm totally fine with you telling me in a 2 min informercial that Gu is better than Heed or that Ventum is better than Cervelo, blah blah blah. Every pro and AG "sponsored" athlete does that on IG every single day....# this # that. That's the sponsor game that everyone has to play, I'm fine with that "bullshit".

So I guess I lose more respect when you then take that sponsor bullshit and do a "trial" to try and prove said product is truly better. Everyone talks up the sponsor ads, but just dont then try and "prove" that it's correct. You want to try and prove it, go enlist 10 of your followers or 10 random people and get back to me with the results. But dont tell me you got a new sponsor and then spend a podcast showcasing that sponsor's results in a "trial".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

If you've ever had to circle swim in an outside line when everyone's doing breaststroke, and you come across a pool like this, you want to kiss the person or persons who agreed to the extra expense of making the pool ~3' wider so the outside lanes weren't right up against the wall.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

I'm a beginning triathlete, more like a pre-beginning aspiring triathlete and his videos popped up when googling around. I've tried watching, but I just can't take him for some undefinable reason. It's like fingernails on the blackboard. Maybe I should give it another try.

If you've ever had to circle swim in an outside line when everyone's doing breaststroke,

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what the hell stroke is that? #freestyleonly #triathlete

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

You and me both.

The outrageous mugging to the camera, all of it.

Same for me. I think it's a combination of the corny dad jokes, little annoying sayings, cringeworthy thumbnails etc etc etc.

I’d never even heard of Taren until the recent spate of threads.

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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

I'm probably the only one here finding him funny. But all the little things he does make me smile. Like the way he was smacking his hand repeatedly in his latest video while emphasising a point and then stopping, saying "I don't know why I am doing that".

He also addresses the haters by deleting any negative commeny about him on social media and youtube. Sounds similar to restaurants paying off yelp to do the same giving them 5 star ratings. Personally I look at negative comments to guage expectations / second opinions.

Have never seen nor heard anything of Taren.

I find him funny and quite like the guy. This doesn't mean I nor anyone else can't take issue with some of the terribly inaccurate things he says, or that he deletes every single comment that isn't a nut hug.

Like I've said, if he actually listened to some of the feedback he would make a huge leap. Instead he prefers to stick his head in the sand of a pity beg echo chamber where he knows no matter what people like you will tell him he is doing great...

You’re right. In full honestly, I find the guy annoying. I stoped watching his videos when he started pushing that uber expensive frozen spirolina. Beginner triathletes don’t need this guy. Just grab a bike and some running shoes and have fun.

Seems like this video is the result of him listening to feedback. .... Shrug...

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Which part of the video was him listening to the feedback? For the millionth time for those who seem to have a little trouble grasping what the issue is-people have a problem with him spruicking false information and products in a shonky way-saying carbon in soles give you another 80 wats or that the Ventum is 18 mins faster. He can get away with this rubbish with newbs who don't know any better, but not the more experienced athletes who are the ones calling out the issue.

They DONT have a problem with him having ads or trying to make a living.

A). He’s under no obligation to take action on every piece of advice.

B) the video was only a couple of days ago. Let’s wait and see what future content actually looks like.

C) one of the criticisms that he is addressing is that there are a bunch of things that he is in over his head on, this video is his attempt to communicate where his target audience is, and bring the content back into his wheelhouse.

I have no idea why people keep bringing up ads and promotional content on these threads. No one is arguing that point.

The constant criticism of taren has gone well beyond the point of criticizing his content and into the territory of criticizing him because he’s taren.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

When people say that don't have a problem with something repeatedly. . .

You're on the wrong social networks, man! :)

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

That’s how legit competition pools are setup. Though that extra lane line 1 ft from the wall is usually only setup for competitions. It just adds 1 more lane line for the pool lifeguards/management to put in/take out.

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blog

So, do I shave my beard or get carbon insoles?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

#wearaspeedoallthetime

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Do you mean Bolivian?

Taren doesn’t drink coffee, just that mushroom crap. ;-)

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Oh so wrong. It’s most effective in Asia. Specifically China. I was in a restaurant where Black Angus pork chops were being devoured in Shanghai last week, if you doubt me

Or back. Or fly, especially if the deck hardware (like ladder grab bars) are installed.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Any pool designer that builds the rails of the ladder into the pool lane should be jailed....

That's what I thought, but then I found slowtwitch and found out I need to spend $250 for more aerodynamic brake levers that will save me 0.017 watts and I need to pay someone $300 to tell me how high my seatpost should be.

You’re seat’s too high

Invoice is in the mail

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No, no, you need to pay $300 to for someone to tell you how high your seatpost should be, then post a video on here for everyone to tear it apart so that you'll spend another $400 plus travel and hotel costs on a better fitter, only to be told that is crap too. So now you need to spend $2000 on a trip to a wind tunnel....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Wish the one who did my old one had been. Put rectangular cutouts in the walls for ladders, with a big freeboard for good measure. Ladders which were removed when the club were swimming so you could smash a nice hard corner of wall when doing fly. Three people including myself broke hands on one of them...

Says a lot that the pool was still the best local one, ahead of the pool whose walls and floors were indistinguishable from one another and the pool that sank.

Out of interest who do you feel makes you spend more tarren or slowtwitch? What helps you more? Y

I don't think he's all that bad - you don't need to be a dedicated triathlete to see through the rubbish.

I find it way better than the multitude of "pro athlete running/swimming/biking slow-mo to dance music" videos we are plagued with - they offer nothing at all. Unless you like drone shots.

He at least produces content, like it or not.

He should, however, learn that criticism is good - it helps give him points to improve. In many ways it's the "haters" that are offering to help him improve.

He takes it badly, though, which is a shame., in a similar way to other tri video makers posting on this site.

I've never felt the urge to buy anything after watching a Taren video.

I have bought stuff after reading the ST forums. (latex tubes, trainerroad, aero helmet. although the only one that is directly attributable to ST is trainerroad) Incidentally, I just cancelled my subscription to TR, and looking back, I was never able to actually follow the plans all that well and my FTP didn't increase. So I've spent more based on ST for zero ROI...

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

When I first started tri back in 2010, Ben Greenfield (this was his pre magnetic bracelet phase) was big and I would say was very similar to Taren as far as giving "information" (one could argue more like opinions) to beginner triathletes like myself at the time. Being a complete naive noob, I soaked up everything that he said products, fad diets, and all. I feel like trying all his snake oils and "training methods" set me back a few years in my training until I finally wised up and began to think for myself realize keto/low carb/fasting was not for me, my training, or my racing.

All of this is on me of course because I didn't do my own research, question, or critically analyze. While I understand the need for some triathlon outlets to cater to beginners to get them in the sport, it can easily send them down the wrong track.

Also followed him for a bit, but he's all-in on every pseudoscience fad and is pushing anti-vaxx now.

I am not a fan of him but I think lately he has been learning about triathlon by connecting with pros and the right people. Except for the last few months most of his advice and comments in his show were a total joke. Now here are my comments:
-It is OK to get some critics. Do not take it personal and take only the critics that can help you learn and keep growing
-I do not think he is qualified to coach. Anybody can help somebody train for their first few triathlons. You do not need a rocket scientist. It is simple SBR repeat. Then to actually improve you will need a more specific plan.
-Coaching should never be free. People have jobs and they get paid for it. Independent from whether they are good or bad at their job. If people want to paid him for bad advice great. I agree with him his time worth something and there are a lot of costs for having training peaks , talking to athletes on the phone, etc.
-He should advertise all he wants. It is his channel and he needs to make something. Some of the things he advertise are not the best but it is a free world. Also, in the last few months he has been sharing the real secrets of high performance.
-For the the people who actually think he is a god here is a word for you. Do not be CHEAP. Support him and perhaps pay him a little monthly fee for his work. The work you guys value because it makes your training so much better. Skip a latte & donut here and there and maybe pay $10 monthly fee for watching his channel and listening to his podcast.

Again, I am not a fan but he is has the right to do whatever he likes. No need to cry and justify on youtube why he is trying to make money out of our sport.

He at least produces content, like it or not.


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Daily content is f'ing hard as hell to produce....Actually let me correct that GOOD daily content is f'ing hard to produce. I have no idea how he fills a daily vlog, I think I only hear about the "outlier" stuff, and then about well he said this fade was the best and then 4 months later changes to this fade, etc etc.


I was having a conversation with a coach just last weekend about how "social media" plays into all these coaching/training groups, etc. (itu focused groups). It seemed to be concluded that it's helpful to have content available and accessible for the athletes, but that "daily" content sorta turned into groundhog day; of course that's what you get when your talking about swim/bike/run, it's only so much you can do or so much excitement you can make training look.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

lol.....Obviously you never had use the solestars neither understand why professionals use them. Inner carbon soles on cycling shoes can help you avoid injuries in your ankles and knees besides making your pedal stroke more powerful. You are better off with a pair of those soles than an aero helmet.
I do not like Taren content (Not him personally) but I dislike him even more for sharing that secret.

Clearly I'm not good at recognizing sarcasm on here... because I could swear you're being serious here, but you can't be....

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Except that Ben Greenfield is (was) actually fast. And his podcast intro music is awesome!

Yeah, but the world will never know whether he was actually fast *because* of the crazy shit he did, or *in spite* of it.

I'm solidly in the latter camp regarding that snake oil salesman.
Somebody being "fast" often means exactly dick in terms of whether they know WTF they are doing.

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float , hammer , and jog

The blogging world does seem to be a bit of a game. If you can't compete on the content front, you have to be prepared to sell your soul for clicks or ad money.

Youtubers like DR seem to resort to clickbait'ing to pump up the views. Post a review of a wheel set you might get a number of watches if it is done well, add in a bit of a soap opera and watch the clicks climb. Of course most media outlets require a level of sponsorship and some is more discreet than others as long as it doesn't suppress info on other new tech being put out there generally I can cope with it.

As mentioned before someone I know who is well below pro level uses social media to get a variety of sponsors. To do so he pretty much lies through his teeth. This weekend he was flown to Greece by the race organisers to race the Spets sprint triathlon. He has vlogged how the race was filled with Olympic athletes, pro's and elites. He finished 13th with the 2nd fastest run. Knowing he is a 36min 10k runner a quick review of the results shows that it wasn't the stellar field he has stated. The age gap between the winner was a junior that would have been 12 at the last Olympics and the bronze medallist was 63. Obviously all his sponsors including some big name brands are happy enough with his lies if they think he might help sell their products. Though it is kind of results doping.

I haven't watched many of his videos. They just weren't informative, no real specific info, he just babbled. One video I watched he spent 10mins talking about his dog and how cold it was. He seems to come across OK though, he just needs a bit more triathlon focus/relevance and to drop that nauseating "trainiacs" phrase. So dorky.

Whoa, is that for real? Greenfield is promoting anti-vax? WTF?

yep. Links a Mercola article to prove his view.

Dude that guy was pushing super sketchy male enhancement products even before that. WTF x 1000

point of order:

when did adults start using the word "haters" to mean "critics?"

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

When they confused themselves with teenage girls...

Or when they are non native English speakers who might have misunderstood the full meaning of the word?

When things move beyond just posting criticisms of inaccuracy in content, to the point of becoming obsessive-compulsive in the endless repetition and piling on of the same stuff over and over, to a degree that's way out of proportion to the content creator's actual position in the industry, and when that obsessive repetition becomes tinged with personal attacks that have nothing to do with the accuracy of the content.

pretty much this. I've been pretty critical of some of his content in the past (specifically on the swim), but I do try to temper that criticism with pointing out what I think he gets right. (Notice that I haven't talked about his recent video where he talks about Lucy Charles' swim stroke, because I feel like a broken record). Suffice to say, that video sends the wrong message and completely missed the mark. OTOH, he did one that is VERY beginner relevant on "how to fix sinky legs" that I thought was pretty good.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

a little Taren goes a long way.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Since sometime around the 2000s and peaking around 2010.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/haters-gonna-hate

Just shake it off...

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

lol.....that was funny.