People do some seriously stupid shite out on the roads for sure. That guy is an idiot.

Do you get pissed when you are driving when other drivers do stupid things and think it's a bad reflection on your as a driver?

Enjoy!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atkp8mklOh0

Unfortunately, the onus is disproportionately and frequently on the more vulnerable road user to "take the high road" if you will.

Pedestrians, cyclists, motorcycles. Everyone talks about the jaywalker, the douche roadie, and the squid doing something stupid one out of 50,000 times.

Everyone is OK with their own spouse driving their car like an absolutely selfish piece of trash. Normal behavior.

Since that onus is on us though, doesn't change that we shouldn't do what we can.

Do you get pissed when you are driving when other drivers do stupid things and think it's a bad reflection on your as a driver?
Yes!

The T road was coming in from the cyclist's left? So he was in the right hand shoulder with no road on his right?

I guess I don't see the issue. We do that all the time here and think nothing of it. The only way you can get in the way is if a vehicle tuning left from the T swings wide on to the shoulder, and that is easy enough to see and avoid. Or the light changes on you and the car turning left on to the T has to wait, forcing the car behind it to go around it on the right. Again, you just have to look for that to avoid it. Not a big deal.

I realize it is illegal, but it isn't dangerous.

Ready to be crucified for the above statement. Have at it, its just the internet.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

If you want to live in the fantasy world where cyclists aren't seen as a nuisance and annoyance out on the roads (at least in the a lot of the US anyway). Feel free. But idiots like this guy do not help the situation.

I'm with you on this - I have a T intersection with stop signs on my route to work. I seldom stop when I am going straight along the top of the T.

Man, you will be in rage all day then

That's not where I live... I am questioning the OP that as a cyclist himself, why would you think like that? Isn't this perpetuating the stereotype ourselves? Yes, I agree the fact is that no matter how we ride, we are the nuisance on the road to motorists, and no amount of "well behaving" is going to change that.

a few things

* it's illegal. the light was red. It hadn't just changed.
* no shoulder
* the dangerous part for the rider was on the corner to his left are trees and apartments so he could not see further down the road to his left. also on the road to his left the right turn lane had waiting cars also blocking his view so he likely would not even see a car until he was crossing in front of the left turn lane. I'm not saying a left turning car wouldn't be able to stop if they saw him but I wouldn't take that risk.

unfortunately thats not how it works for cars/trucks etc

It's more like you get lumped into a group by type of vehicle or race/gender. Somebody does something on a bike = all cyclist.

I don't think I'm perpetuating the stereotype when I'm on a forum full of cyclists who know the stereotype is BS. I agree that no amount of "well behaving" is going to change that but I still don't like a cyclist blasting through a red light anymore than a car doing so.

Not all T-junction lights operate the same way. Some will cycle the cars turning left in the same lane/flow as the cyclist going straight while it gives a right arrow to the "tee" coming into the main road.

We have lots of those here. You would see a red for the lane the "tee" folks are turning right into and possibly assume the opposite flow to be red also. Also, 3-way and 4-way stop signs. If you're in line with others, own your lane/spot and take your turn in line. If nobody there, blow it. Slow up from your 30mph roll, maybe 15. Make sure a car also isn't going to blow it. Cars at 3 and 4 ways tend to get very confused, and if you're there first by 100 yards.....best you can do is roll it.

Back to the "tee stop light".

So yeah, you see that legally a lot here. People continue straight thru the green while it's letting folks turn left/right.
https://www.google.com/...7,113m/data=!3m1!1e3

The road on the left here operates this way. The hospital side might rarely have a car exiting straight/left. So no need to stop both directions of travel on the main road.

Also, while running a red......you can go safely since legally the left turning car is supposed to turn into the near (left) lane anyway. Not the right lane, like here:
https://www.google.com/...43,88m/data=!3m1!1e3

Here's what I'm guessing is actually at issue here.......if like this......yeah, I'd stop. That's a suicide call there, somebody runs the left at 40mph screetching tires and plows you as you run the red straight.
https://www.google.com/...88,56m/data=!3m1!1e3

Nice! Interesting perspective....

That girl is one door opening away or lane change from being toast. Good skills though.

Technically she only ran one red. The first one right in front of NYPD. The rest were all green.

I think they were probably in more danger from the pedestrians than the cars.

Everyone breaks the rules - drivers, pedestrians, cyclists. And studies have found that drivers and cyclists break them at about the same rate.

Personally, I care more about drivers breaking the rules, since 30,000 people die and hundreds of thousands of people are injured by car crashes. YMMV.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

Not even a close comparison.....Not. Even. Close.

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

She's a guy. Cooper Ray.

This one is even more fun. Several crashes are shown in the beginning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOH1lqWt5Cs

You mean like the 3 triathletes riding the wrong way in the middle of the road coming across the bridge near the IMTX swim start at about 9:45 this morning?

Some pretty impressive bike handling skills there - especially getting a push off the cabs and bus... But I do recall on Ride the Rockies one year the Sergeant Moto RIder said, "The one with the most lug nuts, always wins."

:-)

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Graham Wilson
USAT Level III Elite Coach
http://www.thewilsongroup.biz

Totally agree. Unless a cyclist is breaking a law that endangers a pedestrian or another cyclist, the cyclist blatantly breaking the rules of the road is likely only endangering him or herself.

OTOH, a distracted fellow motorist that slams into me at 70 mph on the highway and potentially cripples me would piss me off infinitely more than a cyclist who goes through a red light.

Yeah that was sweet, from my "perspective" too close to large vehicle and entrapment risk. Because it's crowded city riding there is little speed differentials out there but around here, darting in/out could get you flattened.

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

I have never heard or read about a pedestrian watching another pedestrian do something stupid and say: this makes us all pedestrians look bad! You mostly only hear this about cyclists.

Driving home from work today on local roads I saw maybe 5 or 6 cyclist. How many cars did I see? Maybe close to 100. How many drivers did bad moves? A lot, maybe 50% or more so no I don’t get pissed because there is so many of them. Now all you need is one of the five cyclist to do something stupid. Do you get what the OP is trying to say?

That the OP is a cunt who has never ridden a bike and thus hates all bikers?

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I think your thread title is misleading.

Bad cyclists don't make the rest of us look bad. However, they are used as a weapon by those trying to generalise about cyclists. The willingness to be prejudiced is the problem, but that's not specific to driving/cycling.

It may seem like I'm going a tangent but I don't think It's gotten worse everywhere in recent years, due in large part to the availability of broader communication via social media and "news" dissemination that's heavily influenced by feeding consumers what they want at the expense of balance, or even the truth in extreme cases.
This is patently obvious in certain spheres such as discussions about US poilitics, religion, and Brexit. It's a very worrying trend IMO. Democracy isn't so great. It may be the least bad system of government but it's very vulnerable to an ignorant mob mentality.

THIS.

And I feel sad when cyclists by into this weaponisation.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

“Bad cyclists don't make the rest of us look bad. However, they are used as a weapon by those trying to generalise about cyclists”

Yes. I agree with this.

Or the original turned to 11

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Mark E

It's a crazy mentality. Cars make illegal right on reds in front of other cars and cyclists. Cars will block intersections due to traffic, turn impeding oncoming traffic, weave in and out of traffic pretty much on every trip out I take in a car. Yet, one bad move as a cyclist and it's giving cyclists a bad name.

This guy definitely qualifies. Never heard if anyone actually figured out who this guy was or not......
I crossed paths last week in this area with someone that "looked" like this, but no way to be sure so made nothing of it....
https://www.facebook.com/...214726410527647/?t=0

Ok, this happen to me yesterday so I figure I'd ask so I don't give cyclists a bad name:

Do you stop for school buses? Or when they are stopping do you ride right around them? I was stopping to play it safe but wasn't sure.

I've seen that video.

dude's got to hit his interval target ftp. no time to stop for kids

50%?!? where do you live, India?

I was stopping to play it safe but wasn't sure.

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I'll add one little but very significant word to why you should stop. Courtesy. Yes it's the safe thing to do for everyone but it's also basic courtesy. The aren't looking out for cars or that fred who just can't stop on his bike when trying to get on the bus. They are kids half wont even bother paying attention, they'll just walk across assuming it's clear.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'd stop...then draft the bus for their whole route and make strava segments between each stop

Yes I do. If the driver runs a red light it pisses me off.

You really need to ask that question? Seriously?? I know you said you stopped (which is the obvious right thing and legal thing to do), but if you had any thoughts to blow by a stopped school bus..........

You would be pissed 24/7 here, if that bothers you. Just last night, during a 20 minute/5 mile commute home I saw a car pass a car that was already driving 5 over on a double yellow, a car go around a line of traffic to turn left at a light (in the on coming lane) and a woman on her phone look at the red light, then casually step off the curb and walk across traffic. When she got beeped at she gave everyone the finger and then slowed down to hold up traffic longer.

Although not last night, I have seen several times where drivers go down a right turn lane to avoid a line of traffic at a light so they can go straight at the last moment and force their way in. It is every person for themselves here, and you have to experience it to truly believe it.

I've lived on Long Island for a long time, and all I can figure is that no one gives a shit about traffic laws, right aways, or common drive etiquette here. When I'm out on my bike I ride like they drive and I assume everyone one of them is trying to kill me, or at least don't care if I do die.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

You stop... it's the law, period

Not really... I just don't get why we try to rationalize drivers misconception about cyclists.

I guess I should clarify, In town, for hands down no question I would stop

This was a gravel road, one side was a house, other side was 200 acres of corn fields. Kid wasn't going to run out into the cornfields.

I still think you stop for the just general courtesy to the bus driver and just as simple as this...."just because". But I'll also say I think there are instances that cyclists can "blow" through intersections, etc at the right times. I'm not going to come to a dead ass stop at every stop sign when I'm the only way within 300m of the intersection. I'm just not. I make what would be described as sound judgement.

Could you make the same decision/rationale with the bus stop in the middle of nowhere. Sure, I just think it's sorta a "common courtesy" to stop in those instances.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The most criminal thing there is NYC bike punks using 80's hair band music for the soundtrack.

I can only imagine what drivers in the other cars must have been thinking. As a cyclist, it always pisses me off when other cyclists blatantly break the rules of the road.


It's a BIG issue.

If cyclists EVER want to be taken seriously, and gain the respect from motorists we want/need, we all have to be on the same page with regards to respecting the rules of the road.

The #1 COMPLAINT you most often hear from motorists about cyclists is that cyclists never follow the rules of the road. There is a good counter argument for this ( chiefly - cyclists are not killing maiming motorists it's the other way around) and thinly sliced situation by situation cases where it might be in cyclists best interest to push the envelop on the rules - but park that whole thing by the side of the road for a moment.

It's motorists PERCEPTION that all cyclists are reckless rule breakers - so, we collectively have to change that by, riding to the rules of the road, as much as we can - FULL STOP! All cyclists need to be onboard with this.

And there are other very important reasons as well - I attended an interesting session recently by one of the largest regional Police Forces in the Toronto area and a number of local cycling clubs. Two Police Officers who were also cyclists gave a great presentation. They made a compelling argument for riding to the rules of the road - if it ever came to some form of legal issue. They admitted that most Cops are not going to bust you for gradually rolling a stop sign, but say you did roll even gradually a stop sign, and then were struck in the intersection by a motorist, and wanted to seek legal/civil action against the driver - if it was determined that you did not come to a complete stop on your bike, you would have NO case, no matter how idiotic the driving of the motorist was! Think about that for a second!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Bike messengers
FTFY
Criminal or not, it’s pretty cool GNR allowed him to use their music.

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Mark E

This is all perfect in sterile operation. We should all follow the rules 100% of the time. What I’m saying is if most people use situational smarts we usually wont have a problem. Granted I guess the whole situational awareness can be different for each person and thus issues will arise.

But you can’t go to the same intersection and see cars roll it when around no one else then tell cyclists to come to a complete stop.

So I’m more in line of simply riding as smart as possible. I’m not going to suggest to blantantly roll a stop sign when an intersection is filled with traffic. But if you roll up to an empty intersection at 6mph and roll through it, I don’t really see the outrage.

Same way we drive 7 mph over the speed limit but if we see someone driving 25 mph over we usually think they are in the wrong.

So I think awareness matters a ton in the “real world”. But should we all follow the “laws” 100% of time? The easy answer is to say yes. I just also see/know how the real world works.

So if we have to be held to a higher standard don’t give me shit if your a driver not holding the same standard.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Good luck with that! You should try living in the real world for a moment. A lot of people on bikes appear to have different ideas, and they are unlikely to change.

Frankly I'm glad I live in a world where they hold insane alleycat races in like ones posted above. I wouldn't do it, and I don't exactly approve. Let's just say I appreciate the spirit, skill, and tremendous balls that would take.

I think it would make more sense to direct your ire towards people texting while driving. That actually kills people... rather than just giving someone an adrenaline rush, and an excuse to vent hatred and anger that is looking for a target.

True. I just think messengers embody a punk ethos, and I intend that as a compliment.

Why do motorists in some European countries seem to respect cyclists a lot more than motorists respect cyclists in other countries? Are cyclists in those countries on the same page regarding respecting the rules of the road or are there other reasons why motorists respect cyclists in those countries? Are the laws in those countries more helpful to cyclists? I'm glad to see that a couple more U.S. states are considering enacting, or have enacted, the Idaho stop law.

I respect the rules (written and unwritten) of the road when I'm cycling because I don't want to be crippled or killed. That doesn't mean that I obey every law. There's a difference. I'd be happy to educate a motorist regarding the difference, but I'm not going to try to be perfect because of some fantasy that if we all seek perfection we'll get the respect of the majority of motorists.