Well shit, guess I'm going to have to get those since they hold far less water

Just wait till next year. They'll be even faster.

---

Strava

I like that they lowered the drop a little bit. It’ll be interesting to see what the new upper is like. I personally liked the upper in Version 1 better than Version 2 of the 4%

---

Matt

What's new......Nike Gen 2 Next% comes with new colors, upgrades from feedback from our elite athletes, and a new price of $350 from feedback from our Marketing Department...………..

---

_________________________________________________
When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

Yeah, sounds right.

I like the 4% pair I have (Flyknit version or some such thing). I only wear them for races and the week prior so I likely won’t need any for a while.

They new ones look cool, but I’m not rich enough to replace them for that reason.

---

Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

My issue with the ZoomFly is the lack of a heel cup and they're continuing with that idiocy.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

You're not off but really all Nike did here was make the Nike Vaporfly Elite version readily available for the public and change the name for marketing reasons.

Also, I think this shoe will be slower for the general public because of the lower drop. I'll likely snag a couple 4%s on sale if possible.

Between these and the new Garmin 530/830 announcement, its going to be an expensive day for some folks here.

---

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Cool.
I gotta try them someday.
But something that Nike does not tell you:

A 4% improvement in efficiency does not equal a 4% increase in speed.

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

I think the NYT article showed it to be fairly true

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

True. But I've never felt so good at 5:30 pace off the bike as I do in those shoes :P i think it was more like a 2% increase in speed or so?

I am sure the % varies for everyone but I just ran my fastest ever 70.3 and bagged a KQ with a set and had no soreness the following day. I've never been so happy to hand over an excruciating amount of dollars for a shoe.

/Throws wallet at monitor

I still have a spare set of the first gen's ready to go,but like the additional of more magic foam to the insole and improved lacing.

Soooo anyone in London got a pair yet?? (released yesterday in London only)

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Did you replace the standard laces with elastic ones to save some time in T1? I usually do this, but not sure if the time saved is worth the loss in efficiency/performance?

What's the general consensus on these? Is it worth drinking the kool aid?

Other than an unfortunate season of running in Newtons, which never seemed to really work for me, I have only run in Kinvaras over the past ~9 years (basically since they were a new thing).

few folks in UK have gotten them via the Nike app. Look on the Vaporfly FB page

I've been excited to try this forefoot for some time.

---

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Yes I put elastic in but in the first 70.3 was too loose and with some steep descents and the lack of heal cup my foot was sliding around in those sections. I put a spring operated slide tighter on for the last and after putting the shoe on pulled about 2 inches of lace out and they were fine in the soaking wet too on some longer steeper downhills with turns. You definitely need tighter laces in the flyknit model.

The NYT article showed they were 4% better than.. not sure exactly. It showed they were 1% better than the Nike Zoom Streak, on average. So technically you could call it the "Nike Zoom Streak 3%".

What Nike has never said is, the Vaporflys are 4% more efficient than what, running barefoot? Running in sandals? If it's *every* other shoe, then that doesn't say good things about the other running shoes they sell.

I'd have to look and see what the NYT article showed exactly.. but it definitely wasn't 4% better than everything else.

No. The best part is seeing someone get off the bike in T2, sit down and spend 60 seconds tying their Vaporfly shoe laces before getting out on the run. Chances are any difference the shoes make (if any) offset the minute they spent tying the laces. Sure, people can buy elastic laces, but the lack of awareness about that point is pretty amazing. A pair of Zoot TT shoes (or similar idea) that you can slip in on six seconds seems like it would make the most sense for any distance 70.3 or below.

And even more so is the addition of variables in triathlon that could have an effect on the run performance. In a standalone marathon, there are so many variables that can throw off a shoe experiment. I imagine the fatigue of swimming and biking beforehand makes it even tougher to quantify the difference they make. Give Lionel Sanders some Vaporflys.. will he catch Patrick Lange at Kona?

It's like the disc wheel of running. In a lab, perhaps. For an elite rider who is really pushing it, even more perhaps. For an age grouper.. I'd bet it's more placebo than anything.

In the linked article above they say:

When Nike launched the Nike Zoom Vaporfly 4%, the shoe delivered an average of 4 percent improved running economy over Nike’s previous fastest marathon shoe, the Nike Zoom Streak 6.

The article from NYT wasn't scientific though. Strava data is helpful to create data for an article. But that's a survey and not science when it comes to creating an experiment for you to actually find out.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Now that they lowered the offset, I'm going to try a pair...and maybe grab another pair for the secondary market, haha!!

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

Oly/10k and below. a 1:30 half mary with a 4% improve is 1:26:30-ish. I would sit my ass down to tie them tight for a 2.5 minute gain.

I am fairly certain the NYT article meant to say it was 4% better than the average of the shoes they included in their analysis, so different than the Nike claim but probably more powerful. fwiw, it was 4% in two of the methods, 3% in the third.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

The info says the US release will be on April 28th through the NRC App. Does anyone know does that mean at midnight, coinciding with the start of the London Marathon (5 a, EDT) or some other random time.

The app says 10am EDT/7am PDT (which is annoyingly the minute my half marathon starts...)

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Great thanks. I went back and looked and finally found the time. Sorry it is bad timing for you.

Huh? My Vaporfly Flyknit 4%’s don’t really even need laces. You are just making shit up.

They’re easy enough to slip on with the laces already tied also...

Had it in my shopping bag but wouldn't let me pay! F***ers. How do you let someone put it in their bag/cart and don't allow to complete the transaction. It should have been pulled out of inventory pending payment.

Same here...and app still shows the 8.5m/10w in-stock but you can’t complete the transaction.

Already listings on eBay, haha!!

Just got to wait til summer.

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

Yep, sure enough I didn't run a world record half marathon and lost my chance to grab a pair. On a brighter note, I did beat a guy today who had the black testing version. Oh well, I'll update this thread when the next round comes out.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

It's available again today

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Where are they available? Not in Nike plus

Maybe just the app? I just put my shoe in the cart.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Must've been a glitch.. Never received the notification or saw that they were back in stock..

Not seeing availability either.

I just hope they come in a different color way than “LOOK AT ME!!! green”, haha!!

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

There's a video going around with the Nike designers of the NEXT%. They actually say they chose the color because it is the most visible color to the human eye (or something like that).

Well, if I did hit a glitch that allowed me to order (cc has been charged) and said glitch is a preview of the actual next order (I did get a warning yesterday from the NRC App that it would release soon) then I'm sorry to disappoint but it is still green.

I was expecting the notification from the NRC app but got it from my regular Nike app. Strange that no one else seems to be getting it.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I can see that! I have the dark blue version of the 4%'s and my wife says she prefers me to wear loud color shoes so she can see me better on the run course. Nevermind that my trisuit has neon yellow on it, she looks at my shoes, go figure!

They are fugly as hell. Hope they tone it down to something in the more "normal" color range that can color match more kits. It is part fashion show out there y'know! If you don't race well, at least you should look good & neon green "ain't cutt'n it!"

Well, to each their own. I like the color, and it won't match my kit (blue and orange) at all. (And you probably already knew this, but I'm pretty sure the *very last* think Nike was thinking about was triathletes. I don't think Nike puts a single cent into this sport--no sponsored athletes that I can think of, no ads, no race or team sponsorships. Nothing.)

The bright orange for 4% and neon green for next are great for marketing

You see a marathon and it seems a good percentage of people have them

Definitely making stuff up on several fronts.

---

29 years and counting

I think they sponsor a few ITU triathletes, one or two in Canada and some in France, Vincent Luis I think is the most prominent but who knows what level of sponsorship that is (based on the swoosh being on their kit). Perhaps they simply give them free shoes? But after that, I agree, I think that's about it. They definitely have no interest in triathlon in the US.

Has anyone else been able to order? I got the shipping confirmation as well so it can't be a glitch but I am still confused why it came via the Nike app and not their NRC like I was expecting it to.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

It appears they support Lucy Charles in some way as well. She always has the latest gear.

Just ordered a pair in the UK - most sizes available.

Likewise.

Wasn't able to get any until 10 am est today. Ordered from running warehouse.

---

blog

I just got the text notification at 7am pac time that I requested last week. Interesting that somehow I was able to order yesterday but hey, works for me!

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Has anybody coming from Altra shoes given these a try? I don't think I have ran in a non-Altra shoe in years and wouldn't know what size Next% to buy. I'm usually a 12.5 in Altra and occasionally wore a 13 for trail shoes. I know that I could order a few pairs and try them, but I would rather not.

I just place my order. No shipping confirmation yet. My notification arrived via text message and I place my order within 15 minutes around 7:30am PT. Seemed like they had plenty in all sizes at the time.

Also some new colors released for the Peg Turbo 2 and Zoom Fly 3.

I don't much care for the tennis ball color, but don't really care as I race in black/white kit and makes it easier for my wife to find me at races.

 




I used to run in Escalante Racers at 12.5.

I switched to Zoom Fly Flyknit for the added cushioning. I tried both 12.5 and 13. I sized up to 13 and they fit perfectly.

Same with the Vaporfly 4%, 13’s fit great.

When I can order the Next %, I’ll get 12.5 and 13 to try because the upper materiel is new. If you order from Nike.com you’ve got 30 days to run in them with free shipping both ways.

ETA: Next% are available on Nike.com. All sizes available right now.

ETA2: Yowza!! $547 for two pairs of running shoes. At least the shipping was free haha!!

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

A pro athlete I advise from time to time has raced in every version (might add he trains in them too) in v1 and the Flynknit versions he used Green Superfeet in the Next he doesn’t need the superfeet. He feels faster in the new shoe. I would bet more people will run faster because of the shape. The 2mm drop in offset won’t be an issue. If it were a 4mm difference I would agree.

---

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Coming from Altras and just got a pair of the Next%.

I wear an 11 in Altra (Instinct 2.0-4.5, Duo, Escalante racer). Lengthwise, the Nikes feel just a hair shorter than the Escalante racer and Duo. If you’re on the bubble between half sizes, I’d probably go with the larger of the 2 given the lower volume and taper of the Nike toe box.

What did you train in prior to wearing those for the race? And when did first run in them... I'm trying to figure out how to break them in without wearing them !

I had been training in Pegasus turbo for a while. I ran a short run before my first 70.3 in them and then straight into the next 70.3 where I had a PB. The Pegasus are similar and I recommend using them as your training shoe if going cold turkey but the 4% are softer and so much nicer to run in. Note if you have the flyknit model I learnt in the first 70.3 that with elastic laces as tight as I could get my foot in were still too loose and my foot was slipping around on steeper descents. The second 70.3 I just put a spring lace locker on and once on pulled the laces out a few inches and they were fine.

Okay cool. I have the pegasus and just had a PB in those so I'm looking forward to actually using the 4%s.

Im doing a 70.3 and full a month later but might to them in one smaller race before as well.

Thanks

Thank you Beverd and jf64k.

I think I will try the 13's since I have gone up to 13 in one version of the Torin and two of the trail shoes. 12.5 in all three pairs of Escalante. 1,Racer and 1.5. I hated the Duos though and thought they were too long.

I really don't want to explain a ~$540 charge for shoes even if one is returned for free. That mega charge for shoes would be remembered long after returning a pair.

I wore neon stuff in the 90's for tri, so not separating myself from that. Just saying the colorway doesn't seem as cool as it was in the 90's. I even had hot pink handlebar tape. The shoes look to be awesome, so not saying I wouldn't wear them, just saying the colors aren't cutting it for me. But the shoe construction itself is. Maybe they'll get these into the custom part of their site, eventually. I do know they have & may be considering a TRI specific version--per one of there Oregon based "prime testers" who I know, who is a former World Champion and multi-national champion. But they haven't delved into anything as far as a prototype yet as far as he mentioned. But it has at the minimum been discussed at more than a casual mention.

I currenlty have the standard Zoom Fly version 1 in 10.5 and all my Vomeros are 10.5. My old Zoom Racers were all 11's...does a 10.5 in the Zoom Fly transfer over to a 10.5 in the NEXT%? Not able to buy two sizes and send one back...

I just ordered some from NZ. Have a pair of the blue flyknit vaporflys already also, Now, which ones to wear for my next race? Or do I just use the blue flyknits until they're no good and then swap to the NEXTs?

I'm ordering a pair as well, and was planning on using the next for my A-races, and use my old vapors for B-races until they are worn out.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Haha I ordered a pair of Next yesterday and will see which one I prefer to run in two 70.3 before the big dance. If the Next are better than the 4% that will be amazing!!!

I have used the NEXT for a week or two now, on the UK TriTalk forum we have quite a bit of feedback
https://forum.tritalk.co.uk/...xt-the-thread/79/504

Awesome I'm keen to read up on what to expect. What I found interesting was a lot of the top pros obviously buying their own shoes at Roth were in the Next. Lets see how they go in comparison to the VF. Good to read up the the Zoom Fly isn't as enticing as it looks and I don't need a pair... Cheers

Just got mine at my local running shop. Fit is similar to my orange 4%, but the upper is completely different. I had a new 4% I was planning on using, but may jump directly to these for racing.

As a point of reference, here are all my sizes in the Nikes,

Original Zoom Fly - 11.5
Original Vaporfly 4% - 11
Vaporfly 4% Flyknit - 11.5
Vaporfly Next% - 11

Pretty interesting to see how others have been sizing. For me I am 12 in Zoom fly, 12 in OG Vaporfly but could have gone with 11.5 probably because they are wider than ZF. And I am 11.5 in Flyknit VF. FK VP fit my foot much better and if I go to Next I’ll probably go with the 11.5. Narrower foot over here.

---

Twitter - Instagram

Anyone else have any good insights for a racing lace setup for the Next%? Just had my first run in them this morning and will be racing OD in them on Sunday. Looks like it will be difficult to get foot in and tongue flat with super tight elastic laces. Going to cannibalize all my old tri shoes and do some trial and error this week.

have a pair on order... would be interesting to see how to set them up for quick laces for a fast T2

I don't plan to put elastics on my pair but I imagine you'll need a lot of trial and error before risking it in a race because that outwards taper of the lacing gives it a different feel. fwiw, my wife found with her 4% that she can't even have the elastics pulled tight as it hurts her feet.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I used a pair last weekend in a triathlon. I put a pair of lock laces in and didn't have any more or less issues getting them on in T2 than any other pair of shoes that I noticed.

The only slightly problematic part was fitting the laces as they only just fitted through the the lace holes.

I just did my first run in them this morning with lock laces - they were easy to get into and the upper held my feet really well, I didnt need to put all that much tension to feel secure. The added heel cushion really locked my heel down. I did a few "practice" T2s with the lock laces before and after my run and they are pretty quick to get on and off - just get the tongue flat when you slide your foot in.

I initially tried to use the Caterpy laces I use on my Altras and those were a fail with the heel on the Next% being pretty regid.

check out Greeper laces. Like normal laces but they have a pull release. You can loosen them up beforehand, slide foot in and just pull the toggle to tighten them up.

 

x2 -- this was exactly my thought when I got my pair in the mail.

With that said, I'm actually considering sending my shoes back for a refund. I just don't think its a great Ironman shoe. Anyone else think this? I've run one Ironman in the OG Vaporfly's and it was 'fine' but I think the new Rincon would be better suited for a 7-7:30/mi pace.

I have the blue 4%'s and have ran three IM's in them. Still not sold on them but then I am not a huge fan of the drop either. So I am willing to give this new one a try since it appears to be an 8mm drop.

Why oh why can't they make a wide version?

Some say the next is wider that the 4%

I have normal feet, not wide and I have not run in mine but they fit felt the same. Standing tall, my arch feels like it has zero to no support and the toe bed felt like the OG, not the Flyknit.

I'm not sure about the next as haven't received mine yet but but I read they are better to get on than the 4%. I have only ever used 4% flyknit with socks but the consensus seems to be they are a a bitch without them. I found with the 4% I had to have a spring loaded elastic lace locker and tighten down once on to work for me.

Sneakernews showed a different color coming

I never run with socks even for a 70.3 but got blisters with my vaporflys in a 70.3 with socks. So yeah no socks wouldn't be good.

Just went for a run in mine.

I ordered 12.5 and 13 and after running in both, the 13’s fit great. They feel a bit roomier in the forefoot than the 4% FK, and the heel locks down better.

The upper material is interesting. Very thin, but feels strong. The lacing took a bit of fiddling, but felt good once I sorted it out. The tongue was fiddly, it kept folding under, but stayed flat once I was laced in. I could see that being an issue in T2.

Overall impression is I like them. They feel like an improved version of the 4%. But man are they bright, haha!! Hoping for a different colorway, like my dark blue 4% FK.

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

Thanks for the follow up. I'll probably buy a 13 from Dicks here shortly. I have had a gift card sitting around for a couple of years and it's nice being able to return them to a store 5 minutes from work if they don't fit.

Went on my first run with them this morning. Feet slipped right in and didn't have too much trouble with the lacing system or with the tongue; love the color. The upper is definitely different - probably more in line with the Zoomfly SP. There is definitely a different feel to them vs. Zoomfly Flyknit as well as the first gen Zoomfly. I need to get more miles to make a more accurate assessment, but I am excited about using them. I probably will track miles on these shoes for grins as I don't typically do that. I get the sense that I will save them specifically for races or the tail end of scheduled long marathon training runs (>16 miles).

---

Tomorrow is not promised. Increase the Peace.

I just got a pair and went on a first run - pretty amazing really. Two things: 1) The medial side of both insoles seem a little rough. I could foresee a problem. I was thinking of putting body glide right along that little rough area. Thoughts? 2) I have always used Xtenex laces . . . I could foresee a problem and wonder what others are using. Thanks.

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Lock Laces- worked fine at my first race. You do need to be a careful putting them on with that offset tongue, but even with T2 brain I managed.

Thanks - did you have any trouble with rough medial edges of insoles?

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I have yet to see these in person...are the insoles removable? If so, are they a strange shape that would not let you use another insole? I have always been able to take my training shoe insoles and throw them into my race shoes for blister prevention.

I tried them on in person and no, the insoles seem to be stitched into the soles. However, I could place my ortotics over the insoles. Was this a good idea? No clue. I refuse to pay $400 CAD for a pair of running shoes considering i got 2 pairs of peggie turbos for ~$130 and I love them. Would LOVE to try and use the next% in a run and see if the insole would work (had to size up, not sure if shoe was meant for orthotics or not) but I am not going to throw that much money for those shoes, specially since I have no idea if the orthotics will cause issues with the fit.

But yes, you can lace up the shoes and it felt okay at the store with them in.

Edit: The bounce felt amazing. Not gonna lie, it was pretty insane how much energy you get back from them. Still, I am not fast enough to really feel the need to buy them, but I can totally see them shaving minutes off your marathon time

I tried throwing my Superfeet Green Carbon insoles ontop of the factory insoles and ran around my place - I don't see that working well over distance. I have pretty low volume feet and things got pretty snug in the toe box, along with the conflicting shapes.

The insoles are sewn in, same for the VF 4% FK.

ETA: The fiddly lace and tongue issue I had on the first day have vanished...probably user error, haha!! Feet slip right in, laces cinch down very quick and even, tongue lies flat.

Put a few more mile in and they feel great.

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

I did not. Raced in them today for the first time (wore them before but not raced in them)...it was a 5km/50 mi/12.4 mile Du--the run was 90% gravel/uneven surface. Note to others...these suck on gravel only slightly LESS than the 4%. They were better, but I'd advise to use them for paved courses. If on gravel/uneven, use something else--my feet were torn up from sliding left to right in the shoe when I hit large stones on the course which was imbedded in the gravel roads.

I was wishing I chose my Speed Rival 6 shoes today...I have some serious blisters to deal with. It's not just because they are new (there is no breaking in needed on the NEXT %) as it is basically Kelty tent ripstop nylon upper. On a paved road, they'll be awesome!

No, but I am a 100% sock guy. Second race in these on Saturday- no issues in T2

Retweet on the lock laces. Just raced in them on Sunday and was super easy to get my foot in and was very secure the whole time. The heel pad works perfectly to lock the heel in. The tongue on my left foot was folded over a little bit but it is so thin I didn't notice at all with socks on. Overbiked my way into a miserable run but still very happy with them overall and lots of jealous looks on the run course.

I was told by a friend who has the original 4%s that you get extremely low volume out of the shoe... like 100 miles. Because the carbon plate thing is hard on the foam. Hard to believe. Anything to this?

No, this is not true. I have a ton of miles on my very first pair and still use them for training. They are still good shoes. The soles on both of the first two versions look half ruined after one run, which I assume is why people [rightfully] worry about how many miles you can put on them. But my experience is that despite their appearance, they hold up fine to rather high mileage.

---

Dimond Bikes Superfan

Would you say they only have a couple of actual races in them, but are fine for training in for quite a bit longer? Like maybe you only do two IMs or marathons in them, but then retire them to be training shoes for a while?

I got tired of fighting "Nike" and got a pair of the Next%. I have tried a ton of other race shoes and Nike always fits me the best (I wanted to love Hoka but Hoka didn't love me). I didn't want to be "that guy" who spends too much on a race shoe but the fit did me in...….

Yes, they are fast, bouncy and I'm not as beat up after a race. The real surprise was the Nike Zoom Fly 3. It is almost as good at the Vaporfly at a much better price. Its heavier than I want to race in but if that wasn't the issue for the price the Zoom Fly 3 would be my go to. The upper on both shoes are great. I live in the South and any kind of knit weave upper gets too heavy when I sweat. These shoe solve that problem.

Thanks again for the sizing info. The 13 was perfect for me (coming from a 12.5 Altra) and I finally did a run in them this morning. The forefoot was plenty wide for me. Kind of weird running in a non zero drop shoe for the first time in years, but it felt natural once moving.

Glad it worked out....yes, going from Zero Drop to these took some adjustment, but it’s a non-issue now.

For those interested, they have Next% in Nike by You now. You can change the upper to FlyKnit or Engineered Mesh (though you lose the offset lacing), change the tread pattern to waffle, and customize the heel text.

Still no color choice though, haha!!

https://store.nike.com/...next-premium-by-you/

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

I like that you can choose the upper, strange to me that you can change the tread, lame that you can't change the colour!

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

It's been a few weeks, I've run one short training run and one oly race in these and they're fantastic. They were my first VF and seriously blew me away. What are people pairing with these for training? I have some Nike Epic React 2s which I think are only OK, looking to grab a new light cushioned trainer for longer stuff. Considering Rincon, Turbo 2, Beacon 2... Thoughts?

The sales rep at the flagship Nike store in NYC suggested the Pegasus Turbos. According to him they use the same "Zoom-X" foam that the next% use. I grabbed a pair at the local Nike outlet and it feels comparable.

I use the Zoom Fly for training. It has the carbon plate but with React foam instead of the Zoom X. To me they have the same feel, i.e. track the same, with just less cushion.

I first went Nike with the VF4%. I tried the Peg Turbo (since they use the same foam, but no carbon plate) and I just couldn’t get into them. They felt a little dead to me.

I then tried the Zoom Fly FlyKnit (different foam, same carbon plate as the 4%). They felt fantastic. Very lively with great cushioning. I picked up another pair on sale for ~$70.

I still use the Zoom Fly FK with the Next%. When I wear out the Zoom Fly FK, I’ll try a pair of the Zoom Fly 3’s.

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

Interesting... My thoughts with the Zoom Fly were that based on reviews and stats it was simply too heavy and the cushioning too different to simulate the VF. Might try to find a place where I can try both the new Turbo 2 and the Zoom Fly 3 to compare.

That’s what I’d heard as well.

I ordered Turbos, Zoom Fly, and 4% from Nike and ran in all of them. Don’t get me wrong, I think the 4% is a better racing shoe than the Zoom Fly, but I feel the Zoom Fly more closely mimics the 4% than the Turbos. The ZF never feel heavy to me, either. Just great to run in.

An earlier poster in this thread commented that they felt the ZF3 are a close analog to the Next%. “Nearly as good for less $$”. That’s about how I feel: ZF FK vs 4%. Now that I’m moving on to the Next%, I’ll definitely give the ZF3’s a try.

FWIW: If you join NikePlus (free), you get free shipping both ways, 30 days to run in the shoes, and free returns. Takes (most of) the pressure off when plunking down for $200+ shoes, haha!!

Good luck!!

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

I’ve been using the zoom flys for over a year and just got the 3rd version and they’re great. Tried them on with the turbo 2s and they felt way better. Took them out for 2 hours with some pace work and didn’t skip a beat (my body did though! Ha). Also a lot more similar to the VF than the turbos if that matters.

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Twitter - Instagram

Just picked up a pair of 4% today on sale, with coupon for store got them for $185 which I thought was a good deal. I am planning on using these on race day. Would those that have both the zoom fly fly knit and zoom fly 3. Which one would you recommend for daily training shoe. I have had two pair of pegasus 36 turbo and had issues with bottoms on those models.

I think the Zoom Fly FK are closest in feel to the 4%...plus they’re getting discounted due to the ZF3’s.

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You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

...AND, you can put your goal time on the heel! Gimmicky, but kinda cool.

They are shoes, just like other shoes. People are getting the usual 300~500 miles out of a pair and they're fine throughout.

Has anyone used those in a marathon on gravel / packed dirt? I had not thought about it, but my next marathon is done on such surface (bike path). Once, I did a train run on the Carbon Rocket which have a very mushy sole, and after 30k I had about 300 pieces of gravel in the sole. I have seen pictures of the 4% with same results as the Carbon Rocket, is the Next% going to pick up material as well?

There is no way I would used the Next on a trail or gravel. There is no stability what's so ever on the Next. You can feel it on an off camber road. They would be really wobbly on a trail or gravel. The Next is built for a fore foot runner to get the maximum benefit from the shoe. There is very little lateral stability and running down hill because of the upper your feet slide forward.

On flat to rolling roads, and hard surfaces, and a mid to fore foot runner the Next is the fastest shoe out there. If you get away from that environment there are better, and less expensive, shoes.

Thanks, this is another way to look at it... First time I am doing a gravel marathon (it is a very fast course, with net negative elevation, etc.), so I had not looked into other aspects.

This has not been my experience. The next have been a pleasant surprise to me. I found the 4% to be quite "wobbly" but have been very surprised by how stable, in a natural way, the the next % is. I have had an ankle issue due to injury for the past 25 + years. Since then I have ALWAYS had to have orthotics/Superfeet/Powerstep/Aetrex inserts or I would have flare ups. Amazingly, in the next % I seem to be doing pretty well (big knock on wood). I have also done some limited running in them on gravel roads, and again was pleasantly surprised. Now, I certainly agree that the next are NOT trail shoes and for that use I will probably stick to Hokas.

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I did 70.3 Santa Rosa and the first half(ish) of the run was on a gravel path (also slightly negative elevation) and I had no issues with the next%. The soles didnt pick anything up and I found the shoe plenty stable, even compared to my Altras with orthodics that I train with.

Tyler Butterfield wore Next % at Ironman Boulder 70.3 and that course is 97% all gravel/uneven dirt pot holes with large rocks sticking up all over the place--and where there isn't that, there is grass with rocks in it on a two-track road. He ran a 1:11 half, it did not deter him too much.

That said, I found them horrible on gravel/dirt with uneven surfaces. My feet & legs took more of a beating, but I had zero blisters from not sliding around in the Next %. I have the right shoe size, it mostly depends on what terrain / style course you're using. I would not use it on a screwy run course that has a ton of sharp turns. Ideally, it is a straight forward flat surface shoe. You have to be a special kind of a runner for it not to be noticeable. I am not that kind of runner...quite sensitive baby feet!

So I got the 4% a few weeks ago. I ran about 2 miles in them. They felt good. I am a heavy heel striker and took these off foam on the heels is already peeling off. Is this normal. I have up to 60 days to return these.

I had some wear like that initially and was worried a bit but once that little "covering" comes off I have not noticed anything else bad. I have almost 300 miles in my originals and still going strong.

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Twitter - Instagram

Mine look the same but I can’t answer if that is normal.

Same thing happened to mine. Ran in them once (~ 4 miles) and they look like this:

Wow , that looks bad

It's normal. Nike puts a white layer over the foam so it doesn't look like it's made of couch cushion. Comes off right away once it hits the pavement, but the shoes don't wear badly for me after that.

I went for my first run in the Next % this pas Sunday, 14.5 miles so I just jumped right in. The shoe is very lively! They definitely feel easier on the legs as you get deep into a long run. My pace was very good for the HR and RPE values. The only metrics which were less efficient for me we’re vertical ratio, ground contact time, and cadence. I’m pretty bouncy with a low turnover anyway and that was more pronounced. Now I’m not sure how much import I put on those data points but it was I interesting to see. Going to try a sickness run with speed laces today to see what kind of race shoe this can be.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Ok not so good sock less. The interior upper is fine but the heel band in the heel cup and the plastic feeling tongue chafe a bit.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Just got a pair of the Next% and raced in them over the weekend, setting at HIM run PR by 2 minutes at 70.3 Maine (1:27). They feel far more stable than the VF 4%, especially in corners. I'll be wearing them in Kona, but don't have any high expectations in my first rodeo there.

Laces are tricky - I tried some elastic ones, but didn't feel like the heel was really kept down. I opted to just use regular laces and tie them as quickly as possible in T2. I only have 15 miles in them, but wear on the outsole seems less than the 4%.

I'll also add that about 48 hours post race my legs feel great. Usually the quads are hurting pretty good around this time after a 70.3, but that's not the case. Not sure if it's the shoes or just knowing what efforts to put out on the bike and run.

---

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Agreed, particularly if you get sand in them. My foot was torn to shreds from a sandy 5k in a sprint tri (which I aggravated by doing wearing sockless in another sprint tri a week later). Also not that easy to get into quickly in T2 even with speed laces. That said, I've worn them now in a 140.6 and two sprints. The 140.6 run was fantastic, and I felt great after. I had no problem with my achilles, which I was worried about considering I didn't have my custom orthotic in the Next. The sprints also felt comfortable and were a strong pace considering I was still recovering from the IM, it was hot and I had sand tearing my skin off.

I am using my custom orthotics in mine. Seem to fit well.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

wow you just ticked off all the things I didn't like about the 4% this weekend.

I too had a PRish run but am wondering was it increased fitness or the shoes? Even with only a 2% discount, my time converts to my usual less than trained HIM run times.

See you in Kona!

Eric

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I've worn the new ones once, for a 4k leg at a local road relay. They felt awesome - I'd done virtually no running for months, and yet I felt really good and ran a lot quicker than I had any right to do. And just like the 4%ers, hardly any soreness afterwards. It was a soaking wet day and I had to run though a massive puddle at one stage (maybe 15 metres long, and 5-6cm deep), and they coped fine.

BTW see how many of the top ITU guys were wearing them at the Lausanne Grand Final? Blu certainly flew!

Wait ... I thought this was a placebo?! And you doubted that my EXACT comments to you about the 4% (HR/RPE) were true.

I think someone has some crow to eat. And welcome to the future.... yea yea I kno zoot did it blah blah blah 😂

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http://www.TriScottsdale.org

I just returned mine to nike last night. Wore them three times. I could not get over the fit, sloppy in the heel and too tight everywhere else. Also, I am not a heel striker so I am not getting the benefit of the magic carbon plate. Personally I think these are gimmick/placebo but just like in medicine gimmick/placebo can have a positive effect as well.

I develop achilis tendon inflamation on my left foot when running on the Vaporfly 4%. No such issues when I go back to my other shoes (Adidas Adios 4).

Anyone else has this problem and found out wether this can be fixed? Would maybe the Next% fix this? Or is it just not our shoe if you have this problem :)

How is the fit for you compared to the 4%? I have been holding off buying the next since I got 2 pairs of the 4% (like you) in the winter.

Congrats on the Kona slot, very well deserved and long overdo.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

They work well for Kamworor. These are what he wore to break the Half Marathon world record this past weekend.

A little off topic but has anyone raced or ran with the Vaporfly 3's and how is the supposed efficiency gain different from the Next%?

I am a freak of nature and have size 14 swimmers feet so they don't make the 4% or Next% in my size unfortunately

The good news is that I did a short training run in the Vaporfly 3's yesterday and they felt awesome, and at half the price. Just wondering if I am seeing any gain above and beyond a "normal" shoe.

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Strava

They are a bit more roomy in the forefoot than the 4%, and I got the same size - an 11. They were fine in the one race I wore them in (70.3 Maine), although I wasn't able to get a secure fit with elastic laces, which I tried prior to the race. As a result, I just left the tongue open wide, and then laced them up as quick as possible in T2. I'm not sure what others are doing in terms of lacing - the 4% seemed a lot easier, as there wasn't a tongue to deal with, at least in the flyknit version.

Thanks on the KQ - hoping to have a respectful showing in my first attempt.

---

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Steve J informed me about heal lock laces the other day, till this point had no clue about them...... I hope your first attempt goes better then my first 2 attempts.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Do you have a link for them?

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Let food be thy medicine...

A few of you suggested the Zoom Fly 3 as a good training shoe and do I got a pair. I love them, I may like them more then the Next. I feel like I spend less time going verticals and more time moving forward.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

A placebo? No, I never said that. I said any shoe is going to have an addressable user base where the design will compliment their biomechanics. And for others it won’t. Trying to ascribe any change in performance is very hard from person to person. I like them but don’t know if they are “faster” then other shoes I have used. They certainly are different and the high degree of spring makes my RPE feel lower and legs a bit fresher but jury is out if they are ultimately faster.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Well mine ARE faster lol

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http://www.TriScottsdale.org

Yeah, mine are clearly faster too. I have no doubt

I’ve been running a lot in the ZF3’s and I like them, too. Very comfortable.

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

Slightly off topic I know, but with the new Next% and Zoomfly 3 have people been sizing differently from the Zoomfly Flyknit and the 4% or are the sizes much the same. Im a US 11 in both the 4% and Flyknit..

Thanks in advance

Phil

The VF 4% is very unstable at the heel (medial side mainly, at least for me), and it created serious issues to my posterior tibialis.

I stopped using them.

The Next seems slightly better for this, and slightly better for mid-foot strike. But I stick to my Carbon X. Nearly as efficient, and much more stable.

Thanks you. I have exactly the same issue. Also stopped using the Vaporfly 4%.

Might try the Next% - and also the Carbon X soon then.

If you need / appreciate some heel stability, the Carbon X is much more confortable for regular training and long racing.

I feel like the zoom fly and zoom fly 3 for similar but I went from a 12 to 11.5 because it wasn’t that big of a difference and I don’t like too much room in my shoes.

I went from 12 in OG VF and they were too loose for me then 11.5 in Flyknit and next%. You should be the same size in the Flyknits.

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Twitter - Instagram

I have the Next % for racing but the Zoom Fly 3 are shockingly good.

I am 10.5 in the original Vaporfly 4%, and 11 in the Vaporfly Flyknit. For the NEXT% with a wider toe box I tried 10.5, but that was too small.

Just got these and noticed my casual 5K run was ~5% faster. Pretty cool stuff.

Question - has anyone tried running with these on the beach in the sand? A tri I want to do next year has part of the run on the beach and I am wondering if these shoes would be suitable / helpful on that terrain as well.

Thanks!

I just did IM marathon with it (after a few training runs including long run), hot/humid, lots of water in aid stations.
It feels faster than the 4%, but it is really hard to compare since there are so many different variables.
One thing to note is that I got way more and much bigger blisters on my toes than I did with the 4%.
N=1 YMMV

Just got some next%, they felt great in a 3mile tempo run. My current trainers are some kinvaras and free isos but the free isos need replacing and not sure if get another pair of free isos or kinvara (4mm drop) or go for something with similar heel to toe drop as the next (8mm). Have any of you change your training shoes because of the next%?

I did Superfrog 70.3 two weeks ago which has about 5 miles on the sand and they were fine. The forefoot is pretty broad and provided a stable platform.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Super helpful - thanks.

Just PR'ed my mile - first time I've really ran it in about 5 years so not sure it's apples to apples, but hit 5:51. Wonder if I can get below 5:30

I just did IMCH in the NEXT % and it was a new experience because of the heat. 104 heat index......it was soooooooo f'ing hard on the run. I'm usually a 8:00 pace guy for an IM marathon but that didn't happen. I was a 9:40 pace guy and people were passing out and throwing up all over the place......so get to your point Scott......people are saying that to get the most bang for you buck out of these shoes you need to be a 8:30ish or faster runner and I agree. However.....the course surface matters. This course as mainly concrete which is 40 times harder than asphalt. I was sooooooooo thankful for the spongy cushion of these shoes during that death slog. At that slow speed I didn't notice the "Pop" that's usually there but my feet never hurt. My legs: that was a different matter and they were dead, but the point being don't overlook the cushy foam when you have to go slow. When you going faster you get the best of both worlds.

I have to agree...everything was brutal about this race but my feet felt fine! Plus with all the fluids spilt on my feet none got in and slushed up the shoe. And, much less beat up afterward...especially the calves. Worth the $250 for me

Anyone know of a shop that will take returns on these if worn outdoors? I know Nike will take them back no questions asked, but they have been out of stock on 11.5 for a while now. I would even take them in PINK
I want to give them a test for a possible marathon/BQ attempt in about 18 days, but we are coming in on the window where I am going to be locked in on gear choice.

Running warehouse has them in 11.5. They have a great return policy but I think if used outside you get store credit. Pink won’t be out until the 10th it says though.

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Twitter - Instagram

Faster than with your training shoes or than your fastest casual 5km with the 4%?

Does anyone have any experience on the longevity of these, compared to the 4%s?

General consensus seems to be that you'd only get ~150 miles out of the 4%s before some kind of structural failure, notwithstanding the reported degradation of the carbon-plate springiness which could also see any benefits in running efficiency ebb away even if the shoes themselves do stay intact.

Just wondering how the Next%s compare?

I post every time I see a post saying “I heard 4% only last 100 miles” to give my situation. I have over 300 miles in my V1 and around 150 miles in my FlyKnit. Still going strong and only put some shoe goo on the bottom of the flyknit last weekend. Upper is still perfect on both. Both still have plenty of pop left in them as well.

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Twitter - Instagram

Interesting.

How much do you weigh if you don't mind me asking?! I'm only 60 kg (race weight) and feel like I'm quite light on shoes so hopefully I'd be able to eke out more miles than most.

160-165. Run all my miles on concrete or asphalt. No nice trails or gravel for me. Just hard ass ground!

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Twitter - Instagram

I picked up the Zoom Fly 3s a few weeks ago as a training shoe companion to the Next% and they are surprisingly good, given how negative most reviews were. They are on the heavy side and don't feel as bouncy or fast as the next%, but I've been using them for long runs and longer tempo runs and my legs and feet feel a lot fresher as the miles add up.

Did anyone see the "FlyEase" upper version of the Next% that Justin Gallegos ran in at Chicago? It looks like it would make a great tri shoe.

My 4% FK held up great. 150 or so miles before I got the Next%, and they still look and feel good.

The Next% are holding up even better. I’m 52 y/o, 175lb runner, mostly asphalt with once/wk track work. They are holding up great. They feel much more stable than the 4%, and the heel lock is 100% better. As others have said, yes they are faster, but it’s the fact that they don’t beat you up that’s so amazing. Legs feel fresher.

Love the Next%, worth every one of the 25,000 pennies they charge, haha!!

---

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??

I do NOT have a pretty stride and am not fast. I have close to 200 miles on a pair of Next % - some gravel trail and dry off road. Off course I have some wear but they have plenty of life left. I'll echo everyone else that they simply don't beat you up. I am 59 and 165 lbs.

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Me too, I train in the Zoom Fly 3 and its great. Agree its much heavier and less bouncy but still a great shoe. The upper is much nicer, IMO, then the Next, and sockless its very comfortable. That said I still race the Next with Speed Laces. I wore them for this past weekends Arizona 70.3 and ran a 1:31, a time I haven't run in a number of years on the course.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I also "ran" into this problem with the 4%. A few short test runs and raced Santa Rosa and Cruz 70.3 in them. Spraiined my ankle for the first time in years on a test run just days before Santa Rosa. Developed pretty bad insertional Achilles tendinitis (right where the shoe chafed my heel). Sprained my ankle again! during Santa Cruz, developed VERY bad peroneal tendinitis, and my doc says I can't run for a month. I'm going nuts. At least I got through my whole season.

Like a moron, I'll probably try the NEXT% also, because the free speed is like crack, but man it can mess you up.

You can buy the Next (with possibly similar issues), or :

1) try the Carbon X : nearly same efficiency, much more stable
2) wait for the reviews of the (upcoming) New Balance FuelCell Racer and Saucony "Carbon Ward" (no official name yet), possibly same efficiency and hopefully more stable.

Also coming soon in the "carbon plate" series : the Skecher Speed Elite, but probably less cushioned.

Without carbon plate : the Hoka Rincon and Skechers Razor 3 are very light, great cushion, and nearly as efficient at a much better price.

"1) try the Carbon X : nearly same efficiency, much more stable"
---------------------------
Perhaps I am an anomaly, but I didn't find this to be the case. I *thought* I would LOVE the Carbon X . . . it repeatedly gave me knee twinges (with or without inserts). The Next % gives me no issues at all and no inserts.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I saw some rumblings about an Adidas carbon-plated equivalent, possibly amongst all the talk about the pros in Kona and the prototype shoes they were running in.

Does anyone have any more info about this? I'm surprised they've been so slow off the mark with it.

The Carbon X work for me, while the % does not
The % work for you, while the Carbon X does not

That's life ;-)

However, I think it is clearly established the Carbon X (and most shoes in the world, in fact) are more stable than the VFs

Do we know that the Carbon X gives the same benefit as the Next%? I don't know either way, but am generally curious. I train in Hokas but got the Next% for racing and it's clearly faster. I don't find it very comfortable, but since I just use it for races I put up with it. I'm willing to try the Carbon X, but I am not sure how it compares, especially since many top pros seem to prefer the Next%?

I have both of these, despite the fact that I'm a pretty average runner. The best comparison I can make is that the Next% has really great bounce, in that you can really feel the shoe spring back. The foam feels magical, and I've never run in a shoe like it. It's going to be my 10K / Olympic and half marathon / 70.3 shoe. When I first got them, I would pick a target pace but not look at my watch to see how close I could get. I was always faster than I thought I was going, around 15 sec/mile. Very unscientific obviously.

The CarbonX feels light and smooth, even though technically it isn't a very light shoe. It gives a sense of gliding you forward. I do my long runs in these and plan to use them for my first Ironman next year, mainly because I've never done a really long run in the Next%. And, frankly, because I fully expect to have to walk and run slow for parts of the marathon. Next% would be a waste at those speeds.

Never seen a serious / scientific result about that yet.

Hopefully, when more shoes available (NB FC Racer, Saucony, ...) we will have some real comparison study made between these 4+ shoes.

From my experience with running in 4% and Carbon X, and reading of the scientific tests around the 4%, i would say (not bullet proof) :
If you are heel striker and can handle medial lack of stability, the VF is the best
If you are midfoot striker and prefer a stable shoes, Carbon X is better

In between... don't know

Thanks for that. I'm thinking about trying the Carbon X. I suppose if I don't find they give me the benefit of the Next%, they can still serve as a very nice training shoe.

Your description of the Next% is basically my experience with them as well. Have you tried the same pacing experiment with the Carbon X's? If so, was your pace also faster than expected? I realize, this isn't scientific, just trying to get a sense of how they compare.

This is similar to my experience. 38m, ~67kg, I ran 3'20" in the VF 4% at Roth earlier this year. I'd only done a couple of very short shakeouts runs in them before the race. I found them fine during the race, though definitely at times unstable (esp with some cobblestones!). In recover post-race after I took them off I thought 'jeez, my ankles, lower leg, stabilizers etc. feel a little more sore than usual'. Fast-forward ~1 week and I went to do my first very easy run (in other shoes), made it 5' down the road before I was limping with very bad lower leg pain (just one leg). A month of physio appt's later (diagnosed as peroneal tendonitis) and I was finally able to run again for more than 10'.

I haven't run in them since (but haven't had a need either), I'll probably bring them out again next race if there's no alternative on the market yet (I'm a NB guy normally, so hopefully they have an offering). If I do run in them again, I will likely try some other Nike high-end models in the lead-up and/or use the VF4% more in training and get the Next % for race.

TLDR; I'll be very cautious using them again.

Similar story

Few runs to get used to them. Then running a half-marathon with them. Happy, they are efficient, but ankles hurting at the end.
Then, posterior tibialis problem, clearly from the lack of medial support, out of running for a month.
I use them sometime for very short tempo runs.

During the last 4 month, done 2x 70.3 and a half-marathon with the Carbon X : not a single issue

But are the Carbon X as fast as the Next %?

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

For me, yes.

Is their a consensus after some time of the best training shoe to complement the next % as a pure racing shoe?

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Gone with the wind

Instagram: palmtreestriathlon

Consensus, no. I like the Pegasus Turbo 2 for my long runs.

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Let food be thy medicine...

The Nike Zoom Fly 3 is probably the closest trainer to the Next %

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I’m mainly using the Vaporfly Flyknit as a daily driver, with some longer runs in the ZF3.

I guess there is some good from these shoes? Girl wearing the next runs 17:10 to win $500 in the shoes, vs a doper who typically wins not using the shoes 18:44




but what if a doper used the shoes...

To clarify: did you go with 11 for the Next%?

My Escalante racers are US 11 and they fit perfectly. Don’t have a Nike store nearby so hoping to get the size right on the first order.

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Darren
https://www.strava.com/athletes/12385497

Yea - 11 in the Vaporfly Next% fit about the same, length wise, as the Escalante racer.

Anyone know how these would hold up on gravel/light trail? Not much rubber on the outsole, wondering about races like Victoria 70.3 and Ironman Canada. I know they were designed for road..

It's great to get reports that add some balance like this. If anyone could make a shoe that allowed everyone to run in for the first time during a marathon race, and have less wear and tear than their previous favorite shoe, then that would be a huge achievement. Even if it came with no speed gain. I don't doubt that for lots of people it is going to be great. But it seems unlikely that it is a panacea.

So understanding who it might and might not suit is important. A common stated rule is if it's comfortable it should be good for you. Any warning signs before post race soreness?

My first race in the Next% was Santa Rosa 70.3, which is ~40% gravel and they held up fine.

Did you put speed laces on them?

Did you put speed laces on them?

Friend of mine got these and he actually did put speed laces on them. After running ~10 miles foam on heel started peeling off just as shown on the pics in the posts before.

He is calling me crazy for reading forums before purchase. I'm sticking to Nike Zoom Streak 6 for now as long as it is available.

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Supero

I had speed laces on mine for a bit, switched to greeper laces because they're a bit more comfortable and I don't really focus on short course anymore. Couple of my teammates have speed laces on them, no issues

In all my tri shoes

Sorry I didn’t read all 9 pages of discussion. Maybe I will read thoroughly later. So I just went to Nike store and tried these on. I wear size 8.5 but 8.5 was too tight for me. 9 felt pretty comfortable. I saw one of the reviews on YouTube and wondered about it so I had to try. I wear 4% in size 8.5 and they fit great. Is it just me or Next% runs bit small? If it’s already discussed and answered, please forgive me.

I'm 11.5 in all my running shoes including 4% & Next% so no size difference for me.

I went up a half size in the next. My heel was bleeding in my normal size. Don’t know if it was because of that but went up half size and no issues

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/11645943 https://www.instagram.com/timeforicecream/

I just signed up for Dicks email and text to try to get a dual discount on the new colors and neither code worked. Damn.

Maybe the price isn’t coming down ... Eastbay is now sold out of 11.5 pink at a discount and StockX pink went up in price. It looks like demand is holding strong with this shoe. I’m almost thinking Nike put out some PR of the banned talk as since then demand has markedly gone up.

I guess I’m paying full price at some point. I want those new colors though in the orange and teal. Pretty slick.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

That would be hilarious. And unsurprising

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

My toes were all the way to the front and they hurt. Heels felt fine though.

Thanks

This is not the first time Nike did this. If you have time watch the film Unbanned about MJ's "banned" Jordan 1s. Turns out it was NOT a ban by NBA it was just Nike's marketing game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p79nXVeyj4s

Damn genius

Welcome to the world of commercialization where you take one sample and turn it into 16 different sizes. It’s common in all running shoes to hear about different sizes at complete edges of the spectrum fitting differently. It’s also very possible the shape of the shoe and the shape of the foot don’t match up exactly.

The Vapor Fly Next % is a racing shoe, built like one and designed to fit like one. The challenge is the shoe has fully out kicked it’s coverage. Racing shoes had their place in running. Most runners and triathletes looked at a racing shoe and said “Not for me”. Very few are looking at the Vapor Fly Next % that way. That’s why at a race like Ironman Arizona the shoe showed up every single hour crossing the finish line.

I research this stuff for a living. For years running in Central Park there was one shoe that didn’t fit with all of the rest, the Nike Free. It showed up often. Today, run in Central Park and that shoe is the Vapor Fly Next %. There isn’t one runner type. It’s runners of all shapes and sizes and ages. It’s not the #1 shoe in the park it’s simply the shoe that stands out as not like all the other shoes.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Don’t know if you are old enough to remember 2 Live Crew

Their promoter hired the Atty who sued for obscenity and got their record banned from Kmart and other stores.

as well as hired the attys who defended them.

Just wanted to say thanks for all of your posts and insights on this stuff. As a swim/biker who only really took to running in the past half decade I've really enjoyed your posts. Cheers mate.

Is the general consensus that they run a tad short in length?

I'm between a 12.5 and 13 and just ordered the 12.5 since I couldn't find reviews online that mentioned anything other than "normal" sizing.

I wear a 8.5 and ended up with a 9 and it worked great for me. I accidently got 2 pairs when Jack Rabbit had them for $150 a while back and just kept them. May end up selling the unworn pair as I don't race enough to need 2 really, but they are pretty damn nice so I may just race more ;)

I bought a pair, had to test after all the hype. Bought a 9 as all my Nike, both sneakers and running shoes (Fly Zoom flyknit and Fly Zoom 3). The 9 fits fine, half a size bigger would also work. Does feel a little tighter than my size 9 Fly Zoom 3 but i think is mostly because the upper does not ”flex” at all (the Fly 3 has the same upper but an inner sock as well so feels softer/more flexible).

Terrific shoe, definitely faster than everything else i have tried. Much much softer than the Fly 3, ultraboost soft but with pop. Feels easy on the body as well. Considering buying another pair and only run in Next, if I once again can purchase at a good price (bought at $200 which is normal for high ends in Europe).

Downside - for me - is that they can only be used for running. I travel on short trips a fair bit - without luggage - and wearing a pair of toned down Ultraboost can work for both business (very) casual and running. The Nikes are way to spacy, and also feel very strange to walk around in. Plus price of course, Fly Zoom 3 or Ultraboosts can be had for around $130 in Europe. Next well worth its price though.

I finally decided on the Ekiden Next%.

My total was $212.50 @ Running Warehouse (no cost for shipping or tax)

$250 + 15% military discount

You have to call for the military discount or email them after you order to take it off.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Just a general PSA....the new Zoom NEXT% BRS version are available on Nike’s site and go up to size 15. I haven’t seen 14’s and 15’s in awhile.

aaaaaaand it's gone. Only M11.5–M15 available. I've been checking my email every morning for weeks (would be really nice to get a pair that's not in a ridiculous color) and they happen to drop the shoe the morning of my 4-hour brick workout. Just my luck.

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Darren
https://www.strava.com/athletes/12385497

just putting some lock lace elastic laces in mine so they can work in transition... have any of you found a way to stop the stupid flappy tongue from twisting up when you put your foot in by any chance? I've re-laced them a dozen times and its cracking me up! This tongue is the only thing i dislike about the shoe, its absolutely rubbish!

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

I agree. The tongue is garbage for tri. I did think of taping one side of the tongue in place with duck tape or similar and just holding the other side as I put it on but never actually did it so can't say that it works.

I thought the best Upper on these was the very first vf 4pc prior to the fly knit. Might have been a tiny bit heavier but it just seemed to work.

I'm considering stitching the bottom 2/3rds into the upper of the shoe, so the top can still be opened up but it shouldnt twist from the bottom or pull out of place too much... just a lil concerned on if it would alter the fit of the shoe or anything like that

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

Whoa! I have an almost two year hiatus from Triathlon and Slowtwitch and come back to libellous comments like this about disc wheels!? Did I miss the memo on discs being slower? ;)

Does anyone know if some kind of new release/colourway is due soon? I was looking to buy another pair and I cant find anywhere in the UK which has any in stock and cant find anything to suggest why.

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

You didn't miss it because it isn't a memo. Disc wheels are faster. So are these shoes. ;) I wanted to be skeptical. They are legit.

Just read a very insightful article on the Next% and it mentions how running records were set years ago (2007) with carbon plated shoes, like the Adidas ProPlate.

https://www.outsideonline.com/...vaporfly-controversy

Well, I was too slow.

Received it from Running warehouse:

"Thank you for contacting Running Warehouse. The Nike Next% shoe in a size 9.5 is no longer in stock. This item has been discontinued by the manufacturer with no future availability. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance. "

Any idea where I can get a pair?

Wait for the alphafly, is my advice.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Nike.com has the vaporfly 4% on sale for $150 right now in all sizes.

Sure? Can't find that deal on nike.com :)

186.97 is what they are showing for me.

Once you add them to your cart, it gives you an extra 20% off. I just ordered a pair and they were $160 shipped to my door with tax.

Doesn't seem to be working for me right now.

I just went through and got them for 149.58 in my cart at checkout.....

Showing full price $250 for me...?

Same here....

I get 186.97; in US and logged in as member. It does say 'see price in cart' but then the price doesn't change though.

Maybe it's size/color related...? I ordered the blue ones size 12. I'm also a member and in the US.

It is.

Apologies if this has been asked a dozen times, but what is the difference between the React and Zoom foam? What is "better" for a marathon? i.e. if my choices are between a Zoom Pegasus Turbo 2 or a Zoom Fly 3 Premium, what would be the general preference for long distance?

I only train in the Pegasus Turbo 2 and I think it is a great long distance shoe. It is a soft shoe and I don't get soreness but it gives a good energy return and quickens as you increase the pace for faster intervals or runs. I find it a perfectly balanced training shoe for me. I race in 4% or Next% but if you want an all round single shoe then that is it and would be a great marathon shoe IMHO...

Agreed 100%.

I have been looking at the 4%

Does it have a fixed tongue or sock upper?

How does it compare it to the Next%?

Quick question:

I read sometime back that the shoe is only faster if you run fast already, has this been debunked?
I would assume that 4% improvement in running efficiency would apply across all speeds, or is there a kind of golden pace where they really kick in?

I am sure many will tell you differently but IMO the 4% really makes any notable difference around 4'/km pace with me. I've run a 70.3 and a few shorter races at that speed and the shoe feels amazing. This includes running my fastest ever 70.3 in 85' last year. At 5'/km it is a soft shoe, 4;30'/km it's a good shoe and 4'/km it is an amazing shoe.

The Next% feels like it gives more response at slower speed but in terms of performance gains and what pace makes any difference I'm not sold on yet personally. I've only done a few 70.3s during a build block prior to and for the race in Kona and I believe any performance gains were negligible. The fastest race was 90' 70.3 where it felt a good shoe. Maybe I haven't raced fast enough in it to notice that amazing spot I have in the 4%?

That being said I am a more solid triathlete and long legs for my height so what works for me may be different to many. I am sure there are variations due to body types, weights and running styles... but I think a slower runner doesn't get much more than a soft ride IMHO. This is purely based on my own assessment of prior races over the years in regards to my current form of the time and perceived effort while having used different shoes in the past.

I believe that the original study that confirmed the 4% showed that the efficiency gain was consistent across the running speeds tested. Having said that, they only tested down to about 3hr marathon pace.

The authors of the study produced a spreadsheet with their expected speed gains at different speeds. It translated to 2.5% speed gain at WR pace, about 4% speed gain at 3hr pace and a theorised 4.2% speed gain at slower speeds. However, again only pace down to about 3hr marathon was actually tested.

I don’t have the spreadsheet but there was an episode of That Triathlon Show podcast that had one of the study authors and linked to their pace equivalent spreadsheet.

I should also point out that these results were for the original Vaporfly 4% shoe. I have not actually seen any validated information for the Vaporfly Next% (other than tumbling records :)).