Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

2019 NCAA D1 (and other Championship Meets) Swimming thread.
Quote | Reply
Here we go. (I was on vacation and missed the women's meet, sorry..)

So.... Dean Farris!! Just last year the men cracked the 1:30 barrier for the 2free, and now Dean goes 1:29.15 to lead off the Harvard relay. Crazy. It looks like the guys are changing how the 200 is being swum, it's no longer a middle distance event. Just take it out fast and try and hang on is the new way of doing it. Too bad he isn't swimming the individual 200 free, but we'll have to watch his 100 back with the form he's in.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Apr 16, 19 8:57
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Watch it here...



Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That’s crazy. Most people here can’t swim a 100 yds that fast!
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Oh yeah, and Texas got the NCAA and American record in the final heat, swimming a 6:05 low. But that's kind of "meh" in comparison to Dean's swim. I mean, Haas "only" swam a 1:29.66 to anchor the relay. Phht….

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Today's lineup

200 free relay - no idea, all depends on who's nailed their taper. Its in Texas, they'll be motivated especially after a fast 800 free relay on Day1.
500 free - wide open. 21 guys seeded sub-4:15...
200 IM (seliskar is probably the favorite, but Vini Lanza could push him (go IU!)
50 Free - wide open, there's no Caeleb this year.
400 Medley Relay (IU is the top seed. Go Hoosiers!)

I've adopted IU as my "home" team, since I have family in Indiana who have attended IU. Plus Cody Miller's youtube channel is awesome.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jason, thanks for posting that video!

I need to pay more attention to the times. Watching that is making me appreciate more local HS swimmer Carson Foster's 200 Free time at the Ohio HS state meet last month, swimming sub 1:33. I knew it was a state and national record but didn't realize HS times were that close to competitive college times (at least in this case).


Tad

It took awhile, but I finally discovered that its not the destination that's important, but rather the journey.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [TMT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you break an Ohio state record, then you're something special talent wise. A lot of great swimmers have come out of the Ohio / Indiana / Michigan area.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
How is he not in the individual?

Edit: nvm.. SwimSwam is my friend. Wants a rested 100 back. At Ivy he went 45.xx just minutes after a 1:30.xx in the 200.
Last edited by: ripple: Mar 28, 19 7:12
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
If you break an Ohio state record, then you're something special talent wise. A lot of great swimmers have come out of the Ohio / Indiana / Michigan area.

And I'll brag about our own (Madison, UW) native Beata Nelson in the Women's field. THREE national titles; 100 Back, 200 back, 200IM. Times are amazing in all the events....One of my favorite sporting events to follow....
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ripple] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NCAA's limit the number of individual events. He's got the 100 free and 100 back (and maybe the 50 free) (100 back is same day as 200 free)

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Link to timing results:

http://www.sidearmstats.com/ncaa/swimming/index.htm

Stream finals via ESPN, prelims are using a Texas' own site: https://texassports.com/...ve=364&type=Live

-----
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
one observation about that swim: He was absolutely DONE on that last lap. he went from taking 10 strokes to 14 on the last one. I would have liked to see him climb out of the water. Did he need help?

Texas was flat this morning. Kind of surprised by that.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don’t think Texas swam their top team in heats. They may have another gear for finals

Yeah, he was cooked. You can see it in his splits. Thats what happens when you split 1:05 through 150

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Crikey. I'm old enough to remember when a 42 for the open 100 was hot shit, now you split a 43/44 at the feet and just keep going for another 100...
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Looks like Cal had a good day today, winning the 200 free relay, 2nd in the 500, 1st in the 2IM, and 1-2 in the 50 free. Nice to see Seliskar finally win a title (and only 0.01 off Dressel’s 2IM record). Still the 400medley relay to go..

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Haas just split 2:00.4 at the 250 of the 500 & died & still won with a 4:08!!!!!!

I’ve always said NCAA’s needs to have a fat guy in lane 8 so that the rest of us can appreciate how truly fast these guys are.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
turningscrews wrote:
Haas just split 2:00.4 at the 250 of the 500 & died & still won with a 4:08!!!!!!

I’ve always said NCAA’s needs to have a fat guy in lane 8 so that the rest of us can appreciate how truly fast these guys are.

And IU crushed the 4MR. Mostly on the strength of Finnerty 49.6 breaststroke split!! And Apple’s 40.x free split.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I kind of feel for Julian Trenton, he missed the final by 1/100 of a second, then did a time in the banana heat that would have gotten him 4th in the big final. I dont care who you are, or how hard you thought you swam, you know where you could have gotten a 100th of a second. Looks like lots of those top 15 500 guys had trouble in the final too, most gave all they had in the prelims, like they should have apparently...

The walls are just getting faster and faster, remember way back in the old days when we though the times Caleb was doing would be long held marks out there to chase? All I can say is, he better also be getting better every year, 6 months of being stagnant now and the field is going to catch you!!

But the 500 still remains a stalwart event that is anchored in history(kind of like Kona and the times there). Tom Dolan went 4;08+ in the mid 90's, a time that wins today. And 10 years before him in the mid 80's, Mike O'Brian went a 4;13 flat. Just imagine both of those guys swimming with today's technological advances. There were plenty from the decade of the mid 80's to 90's, but from then to today, forget about it, those old dudes were the best...
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Don't forget Tom Dolan was also a world class 400 IMer. And his turns, ugh, so lanky and clunky, although I didn't notice great turn work from anyone in the 500 tonight. I wonder where the improvement is going to come from to approach the 4m barrier. Haas was out in 2:00.x tonight halfway and wasn't close. He's always been a 1st half guy. I wonder what they could go with a rabbit or if a guy like Haas gets in with a negative split type guy who can also go similar time.

That 2nd half of the IM tonight was sick. 28.x on the breast? Ha. My best relay split loses to that. And the 400 MR, another sub-3. Everything has gotten so fast, can't even fathom 49.6 on breast. Can't fathom any of it actually. Dressel spoiled us all too.. we won't even be impressed with the 50/100 free this year /sarc.

Sickest meet in the world every year.
Last edited by: ripple: Mar 28, 19 20:12
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
But the 500 still remains a stalwart event that is anchored in history(kind of like Kona and the times there). Tom Dolan went 4;08+ in the mid 90's, a time that wins today. And 10 years before him in the mid 80's, Mike O'Brian went a 4;13 flat. Just imagine both of those guys swimming with today's technological advances. There were plenty from the decade of the mid 80's to 90's, but from then to today, forget about it, those old dudes were the best...

Ya, Dolan's 4:08.75 at the 1995 NCAAs would have only been 0.56 sec behind Townley today. For some reason, the 500 seems not to have had the steep drops we've seen in the 50, 100, and 200 free.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Haas has never had great turns, and Dolan was a freak of nature. It’s a little like in 20 years we’ll be saying that women’s mid distance and distance free hasn’t progressed because they have barely caught up to Katie’s times. Outliers gonna be outliers.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Farris is a BAD ASS! So fun to watch.

A kid from our club is seeded first in the 100 fly (from Michigan). Would love to see him pull it off. And I just love what Ray Looze is doing with the Indiana team. So strong! The times these guys are putting up would have been laughed at 20 years ago when I was swimming in college. For a whole relay team to go 18s in the 50 free - people would have said it was impossible!
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Newb question but is that a meter pool or yard pool?

How / when / why do NCAA D1 meets swim short course or long course. I don’t know anything about this but I assumed they always swam LCM because a lot of these top swimmers in college also seem to be Olympic material? Also assumed LCM because I think it was the Phillips 66 meet from this past summer was LCM

Appreciate any insight
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [TravelingTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
They swim in a 25 yard pool, just like every high school and college in the US. It goes way back and that is just the size pools we built in the olden days, and they never changed. There was a push in the 70's to go metric, but it fell flat along with speed limits and other measuring things.

But you are right, most olympians end up in these pools in their younger years because they get recruited to go to our colleges from all around the world. We have talked about it before, but this meet is often the fastest/deepest meet in the world, including the Olympic Games. On one hand it just takes the absolute fastest athletes(within the NCAA of course) while the olympics just takes a few from each country, regardless if they are actually the fastest in the world at the time.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [TravelingTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TravelingTri wrote:
Newb question but is that a meter pool or yard pool?

How / when / why do NCAA D1 meets swim short course or long course. I don’t know anything about this but I assumed they always swam LCM because a lot of these top swimmers in college also seem to be Olympic material? Also assumed LCM because I think it was the Phillips 66 meet from this past summer was LCM

Appreciate any insight

NCAA is different from USA Swimming, the Phillips 66 meet, (along with the Arena Pro Swim series and a lot of other meets that are NOT NCAA's) are put on by USA Swimming. They'll run meets in typically SCY or LCM, depending on the time of year whether it's LC season or SC season. LC season starts around now and goes through the summer. SC season starts in the Fall and goes through the winter. There's typically some kind of championship meet that marks the end of each season.

As far as I know, NCAA meets are all SCY.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
They swim in a 25 yard pool, just like every high school and college in the US. It goes way back and that is just the size pools we built in the olden days, and they never changed. There was a push in the 70's to go metric, but it fell flat along with speed limits and other measuring things.

These big boys (and they are huge) should be swimming LCM; there's hardly enough lane length for them in SCY. Stay under as long as possible, take a few strokes, and then back under. It is a blast to watch though. Many if not most of the bigger US college programs probably have LCM pools now, but I suppose the NCAA maintains the SCY standard for all of the smaller programs that are stuck with the yards pool they have.

Strava
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [uptown423] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
IU 400 Medley relay - about that breaststroke split from Finnerty - wow...

IU must have the best breaststroke squad in the country between the men and women. Look at who they have - Lily King (8 straight NCAA titles in the 50 and 100 breast, apparently she's lowered the 100 breast SCY record by 2 seconds over the last 4 years), Cody Miller, Finnerty, Annie Lazor….



Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [uptown423] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
uptown423 wrote:
Farris is a BAD ASS! So fun to watch.

A kid from our club is seeded first in the 100 fly (from Michigan). Would love to see him pull it off. And I just love what Ray Looze is doing with the Indiana team. So strong! The times these guys are putting up would have been laughed at 20 years ago when I was swimming in college. For a whole relay team to go 18s in the 50 free - people would have said it was impossible!

Your boy Miles just squeaked into the A final, tied for 7th in 45.3. Hopefully he's got some more in the tank. Vini Lanza (IU) is the top seed for finals in 44.68 this morning.

In the team race - it looks like Cal is headed for a big day. after just 2 events this morning, they've put 5 guys into the A final with the 200 free, 100 back and 100 breast still to come.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
uptown423 wrote:
Farris is a BAD ASS! So fun to watch.

A kid from our club is seeded first in the 100 fly (from Michigan). Would love to see him pull it off. And I just love what Ray Looze is doing with the Indiana team. So strong! The times these guys are putting up would have been laughed at 20 years ago when I was swimming in college. For a whole relay team to go 18s in the 50 free - people would have said it was impossible!


Your boy Miles just squeaked into the A final, tied for 7th in 45.3. Hopefully he's got some more in the tank. Vini Lanza (IU) is the top seed for finals in 44.68 this morning.

In the team race - it looks like Cal is headed for a big day. after just 2 events this morning, they've put 5 guys into the A final with the 200 free, 100 back and 100 breast still to come.

Yeah, not a great swim (relatively speaking!) for Miles.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [uptown423] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Looks like 100 back is gonna be a good race between Coleman Stewart and Dean Farris. 100 back heats were faster than the 100 fly. That hasn't happened for a while, I don't think?

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Glancing at tonight's swims, I think Cal is going to take a substantial lead over Texas unless Texas outscores them by a lot in the relay. Cal seems to have the complete depth this year, with the exception that Texas has got a bunch of dudes in the 200 Free (but Seliskar has to be the favorite despite Haas defending). Tomorrow's events have multiple Cal guys already seeded in the top 16 of almost every event, but I do concede that might be misleading as Texas has no reason to really taper for Big 12's compared to the Pac 10 competition that Cal sees.

Winner of the 200 free tonight probably wins swimmer of the meet (assuming it's Seliskar or Haas, but a couple others have a shot) unless Dean Farris does something special in the 100 back and 100 free.

-----
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [Optimal_Adrian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think Cal is just deeper than Texas this year, except maybe in backstroke? Texas doesn't have that amazing butterfly or breaststroke group from a couple of years ago. That said, there's still plenty of swimming to come.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As a Stanford grad, it is killing me to say this but I think Cal wrapped up the title this morning, especially after Carr's re-swim in the 100 back that puts him in the A-final. Texas always shows up in diving, but I wasn't too impressed with their 1-meter yesterday and don't think it will be enough. Guys like Harty, Katz, Jackson, and Pomajevich just haven't stepped up like in past years for Texas. Has to add salt in the wound for ending the streak at their home pool.

My Stanford Cardinal look terrible as well. Hopefully this will be the end of their coaching staff as I've never liked Knapp and I think it's time for some fresh, younger energy on the deck for them. Embarrassing to think back to their streak of top-5 finishes at NCAAs and look at what they've become.

My younger brother will be swimming at UVA next year and it's exciting to see them doing well again. They have the #3 recruiting class coming in next year and should push for a top 5 spot in the years to come.

The Gram: @agyenis
My latest story on Swimswam: More than a title
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lets talk about people ahead of their time for a minute. Dolan was one, but the other one that I will hold a candle for was Matt Biondi.

At the 1987 NCAA's(at Texas!) Biondi won with a new AR/NCAA Record of 1:33.03. It then took 17 years before Simon Burnett went 1:32.22 at the 2004 Texas Invite (I saw a lot of fast swimming in person, but the feeling on deck that day was electric, as he took down one of the most legendary swims in NCAA history). Burnett would go on that season to win NCAA's in '05 at 1:33.28

This morning it took 1:32.99 to make top 16, and 1:32.44 to make top 8. While the record is substantially faster, Biondi's '87 title winning time was closer to getting a second swim than Burnett's '05 title winning swim. Hot damn that guy was good.

That pool in Austin has seen some fast swimming over the years, but seems to bring out great 200 Freestyles, like One F'ING Twenty Nine point One Five from Dean Farris on Wednesday night.

If you want to have more fun with results, look here (I'm partial to the 6th place finisher at the '05 meet in the 400IM):

https://swimswam.com/...eet-results-archive/

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ya, Matt was definitely ahead of his time. And I got to swim with him in the same meet last weekend;

https://www.usms.org/...etID=20190317CVMMMBY

Not sure of his shape, but at 53 he is still respectable. I'm guessing from these times he could easily in a month or so be winning the AG..
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [agyenis] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Did you get a chance to see the Carr re-swim video? Wow.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ripple] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A huge point swing for Cal too- bumped a Texas swimmer to the B final with that swim.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Clarification, he bumped a Texas swimmer out of the B final to first alternate. So not quite large potential point swing, but still significant.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Let's recap Andrew Seliskar so far. 1:30 200 free Wednesday. 1:38 200im, 18.4 50 free split and 44.something 100 fly split Thursday. 1:31 prelim 200 free today. Am I missing anything? The versatility is mind boggling on this guy.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Actually it is a potentially a much huger deal to bump him out of the B final, than from A to B. If you are on the bubble in the A, you most likely are going to get 8th place. If you go to the B final from that spot, you are most likely to get 9th, not much of a point swing. But if you are bumped out of the B final where you can potentially get 9th, at the very least 16th, to getting bupkis, well that is the best case scenario for Cal I would say..
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I was strictly talking the maximum potential swing, not the most likely. So the max potential swing of A to B is 1st to 16th. B to out of the B is a max swing of 9th place points to 0 points.

The most likely swing is the points assigned to their seeds. So 8th to 9th or 16th to 17th.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
But that fails to account for Cal going from 0 to a max of 20, so I’m with Monty, that’s worse than sliding A to B

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sooo, how about that Dean guy? Way sub 44 in the 100 back 2nd fastest time ever. Gotta feel for Coleman Stewart, he goes sub 44 and gets 2nd!! I don’t feel too bad though, he got 2nd in the 100 fly as well. Gutsy.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Mar 29, 19 17:51
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah, dropping the 200 free wasn't such a bad idea after-all.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That Seliskar kid might be pretty good one day if he keeps working hard.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great meet as always, but how fucked was that Cal coach when he heard his relay might be DQ'ed? I was watching ESPN and other than Rowdy saying it was a stroke thing, and not a start, was there anymore discussion about it? There were no replays on the live feed I was watching.

And for sure that 100 back was a must win after not swimming the 200 free. But what the hell happened to him on the relay? He barley beat his 100 split in that 50, and if you account for the finish, probably slower? Maybe he really can only swim one event a night, and that is why he opted out of the 200. And of course he could not have known ahead of time that he would swim the fastest time ever on that leadoff relay, so just hitting his taper perfect it looks like..
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In 2000 and 2004 NCAA Championships were raced SCM, oddly enough.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tallswimmer wrote:
But that fails to account for Cal going from 0 to a max of 20, so I’m with Monty, that’s worse than sliding A to B

The cal guy was getting that potential point swing anyway. I’m just talking about the difference between the bumps for the Texas guy.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I hated the â€04 meet. It was awful. On Long Island in the old Goodwill games pool that wasfalling apart around us. The built in lighting wasn’t bright enough, so they brought in those highway type work lights shining about 10 feet off the pool deck, directly in your eyes as you were trying to swim.

The idea was to swim in an international course in Olympic years, but everyone quickly realized that was a dumb idea, as it had no impact on international performance.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not only was it a dumb idea.. 25scm isn't remotely close to swimming LC, some coaches were miffed about losing a year to chase records. How could you blame them?

This is one instance where you just don't mess with history and tradition. Although the majority of schools that qualify swimmers for NCAA have LC pools at their disposal, college swimming in US is scy. It's unique, it's fast, it's exciting.

Now if they could just remove diving...
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ripple] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yep. I’ll disagree about diving though- my wife was a diver, so without it I don’t know where my life would be ;)

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ha! Still waiting for the NCAA track & gymnastics championship. Other than water (and generally ripped bodies.. lol) what do they share?

Kidding of course. Not serious (but serious).
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Monty and Jason,

Thanks for the useful info. Didn't realize there are "seasons" for LC and SC. And I have to say I am surprised most
collegiate swimming at high levels in done in SCY. I learned to swim outside the USA and the only pools I have ever seen are LCM and SCM. On the occasional swim when back in 'merica I will end up in a SCY pool. I remember one time someone referring to it as a "junior olympic pool" Anyhow....

And I second the other poster who mentioned something about "big guys" in a small pool. Seems like a quarter of the race is underwater!

Lastly it totally makes sense that these are some of the deepest meets. Only after getting outside of the USA for a while can you get an idea of the monster that is USA Swimming. My kids American School here in Dubai has up the USA Swimming motivational timesheet. Dumbfounding speed.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [TravelingTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TravelingTri wrote:
Monty and Jason,

Thanks for the useful info. Didn't realize there are "seasons" for LC and SC. And I have to say I am surprised most
collegiate swimming at high levels in done in SCY. I learned to swim outside the USA and the only pools I have ever seen are LCM and SCM. On the occasional swim when back in 'merica I will end up in a SCY pool. I remember one time someone referring to it as a "junior olympic pool" Anyhow....

And I second the other poster who mentioned something about "big guys" in a small pool. Seems like a quarter of the race is underwater!

Lastly it totally makes sense that these are some of the deepest meets. Only after getting outside of the USA for a while can you get an idea of the monster that is USA Swimming. My kids American School here in Dubai has up the USA Swimming motivational timesheet. Dumbfounding speed.

Pretty much everyone swims a SC and a LC season just that the US has their SC season in yards while the rest of the world is in metres. At that level, it’s still big guys in a small pool, regardless of whether it’s M or Y. If you watch some of the short course World Cup meets or especially SC Worlds it’s crazy how fast they are.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ripple] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Looks like the hype race for today is the 200 breast. Finnerty vs Seliskar! And freshman Reece Whitley as an outside threat. Should be an awesome race.

Is it too early to just give the 100 free to Dean?

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [TravelingTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Aaron, the thing here is that most the pools built in the past 30 years are LCM, but they are SCY wide. And we have developed the bulkhead to even shorten the length of a 50 meter pool to SCY, and then you can warm up going the perpendicular in a warm up pool, also in SCY.

Like Jason said, there are seasons for short and long course, just the rest of the world swims SCM, hardly any real difference, one stroke per lap..

And the big guys in a little pool is just an illusion really. Have you ever watched an NBA game live? I watched the guy win the 500 and he was taking 12 strokes per lap, so not a bunch less than the rest of us who swam. And believe me, I do not feel like the pool is way too short!! (-; It is just a tiny bit different type of swimming, harder actually as you do not get to breath as much as LCM. It is faster off the walls, but it also hurts more because you use bigger muscles with less O2..
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Ya, Matt was definitely ahead of his time. And I got to swim with him in the same meet last weekend;

https://www.usms.org/...etID=20190317CVMMMBY

Not sure of his shape, but at 53 he is still respectable. I'm guessing from these times he could easily in a month or so be winning the AG..

I'd say he's not really in shape at all, given what he did at 2014 Short Course Nationals:

https://www.usms.org/...etID=20140501SCSC-1Y

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dean Farris and the Harvard team was finishing up a taper workout before the Masters meet at Harvard last weekend and the guy is super smooth in the water. decidedly smoother than the other guys (who were were also NCAA qualifiers, so no slouches). He’s really tall (looked it up later 6’ 7”) and warmed down wearing those huge yellow paddles and made the 25 yard short course pool look like a hotel pool. Interestingly he wasn’t doing any backstroke for the 20 minutes or so we waited for them to finish. When Masters warm up started at 8:00AM they went over to the diving well swam for another 10 minutes. Not much sprinting going on, but he clearly hit his taper right.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [PowerPlay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PowerPlay wrote:
Dean Farris and the Harvard team was finishing up a taper workout before the Masters meet at Harvard last weekend and the guy is super smooth in the water. decidedly smoother than the other guys (who were were also NCAA qualifiers, so no slouches). He’s really tall (looked it up later 6’ 7”) and warmed down wearing those huge yellow paddles and made the 25 yard short course pool look like a hotel pool. Interestingly he wasn’t doing any backstroke for the 20 minutes or so we waited for them to finish. When Masters warm up started at 8:00AM they went over to the diving well swam for another 10 minutes. Not much sprinting going on, but he clearly hit his taper right.


Yeah, it's been a real break through meet for Farris. Wondering at this point if he'll be back at Harvard next year or take a "Gap Year" and focus on training for 2020 Olympic Trials. He's won an individual title already, will probably win another this evening. Given that he smashed the NCAA and American Record in the 200 free with his relay lead-off swim, I really don't think he'll feel like he has to come back and prove anything in that individual event.

At this point, he looks like a shoe-in for the 4x200 free relay at Tokyo, which is all but guaranteed to medal, and most like will be a favorite for gold. But I think he's got a shot to medal in the individual 200 free. He's got a shot at making the 4x100 free relay, too, which is another all-but-certain medal, probably gold. 100 and 200 back are a little more of a stretch, but not out of the question.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 17, 19 7:40
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'd say he's not really in shape at all, given what he did at 2014 Short Course Nationals: //

No doubt, but the 5 years from 48 to 53 can be cruel sometimes. Those are two entirely different bodies you have in that 5 year stretch. At 48 you are still holding onto most of your former glory, but distanced from it. At 53 it is way back in the rear view mirror, and you have entered a whole new chapter in sports. Other things can exacerbate those years too, but in general they are just unforgiving at their best..
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Seliskar for swimmer of the meet? I think Farris gets performance of the meet for that 2free.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Seliskar for swimmer of the meet? I think Farris gets performance of the meet for that 2free. //

A case for both can be made, I would flip your picks around though. The ghost of Caleb was certainly at the meet, and Farris is the only one to erase one of those records. IF Andrew had gone 2/100ths faster in the 200IM, then I would have leaned his way. But really, a guy from Harvard dominates the meet? Gotta go a long way back to find that comparison, and he single handily got his team in the top 10, beating Stanford, USC and a host of other swimming powers of the past couple decades.. I just wish he was a little more durable, like Caleb. If he transitions to LCM like he should, he will be good for a couple events and a couple relays by 2020 I would say, while Caleb goes for 9+!!!!!
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
https://swimswam.com/...swimmer-of-the-year/

What Dressel mark did Farris erase? The 2free was owned by Haas, and Pieroni was the first under the 1:30 barrier. Dressel has never been sub 1:30, iirc.

Dean got 2 wins but Seliskar got 3 and was a huge part of cal getting the title

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ya, I forgot that Caleb did not get to swim the 200 free, or the 100 breast. Both events that he would have certainly put up big records in. That 50 flat he did untapered and and shaved in the breast was eye opening for what is possible. I think he would have gone 49 low if given the chance. And no doubt if he got to swim a rested 200 free, we would be looking at 1;28+'s now as the standard.

But moving on, I still think putting Harvard in the top 10 vs just piling on more points in a kind of blowout is the bigger deal. It was good to see Cal take over that top spot though, Texas was the perennial lock for sure, and I presume was the big favorite pre meet once again..
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If there can be 1 knock on Dean Farris, and really how can there be, his underwaters powered him to his victories. He was not the fastest on top of the water swimmer in either event. Makes me wonder what his prospects are for LCM. He was getting caught on the swim portion of each 25 in the 100's. But in college SCY, underwaters are a big part of racing.

So Seliskar got it, and I would imagine in the eyes of the voters, it simply came down to 3 wins > 2 wins. Farris though took out a huge record, and also powered Harvard into great relay positions and an incredible top 10 finish. Hard to take away anything from either of them, they're both just so strong.

Whoever posted the link to the past NCAA results, thanks.. I got lost looking at those yesterday. What I find amazing is that there were individuals who were seriously fast 20, 30 years ago, but the depth today is out of this world. And that's even with the decline of boys and mens swimming at the AG level. Have to think a lot of that is due to the vast expanse of knowledge all good programs have available them today for coaching and training methods. Also, the AG approach to becoming good at all strokes - the 200 free/200 IM target philosophy.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ripple] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My favorite moment this year was John Shebat taking the 200 back in his final individual event as a collegiate swimmer. He has finished second something like four times previously in the 100 and 200 back. He finally won this year. The shots of Shebat on the podium were incredible, it meant so much to him. To make it even better, Eddie Reese then put him in the 4x100 free. Shebat said that he hadn't swam that relay since high school. Dude goes out an drops a 41.6 split, Texas wins again. What a story.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
At this point, he looks like a shoe-in for the 4x200 free relay at Tokyo, which is all but guaranteed to medal, and most like will be a favorite for gold. But I think he's got a shot to medal in the individual 200 free. He's got a shot at making the 4x100 free relay, too, which is another all-but-certain medal, probably gold. 100 and 200 back are a little more of a stretch, but not out of the question.

I work on the formula that you always move one event down from your best race short course to long course.

So if 100 SCY is your event, the 50 in LCM will be your best.

So in Dean's case, I think his best LC event will be the 100 free, not the 200 free.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ajthomas wrote:
gary p wrote:
At this point, he looks like a shoe-in for the 4x200 free relay at Tokyo, which is all but guaranteed to medal, and most like will be a favorite for gold. But I think he's got a shot to medal in the individual 200 free. He's got a shot at making the 4x100 free relay, too, which is another all-but-certain medal, probably gold. 100 and 200 back are a little more of a stretch, but not out of the question.


I work on the formula that you always move one event down from your best race short course to long course.

So if 100 SCY is your event, the 50 in LCM will be your best.

So in Dean's case, I think his best LC event will be the 100 free, not the 200 free.

I like his chances of stretching his 200SCY speed to 200LCM better than his chances of upsetting both Dressel and Adrian in the 100.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There’s a lot of good 100 guys right now. Adrian, Dressel are obviously the top 2, but not far behind you’ve got Pieroni, Held, Haas on a good day, and by then maybe Michael Andrew will be able to stretch his 50 speed to a 100. Plus others I’m not thinking of. I think Farris’ best shot is gonna be in the 2free and maybe the 100 back. There Murphy and then a little gap to the rest. I love Grevers but I think he’ll be too old. (Prove me wrong, please!!!!)

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
There’s a lot of good 100 guys right now. Adrian, Dressel are obviously the top 2, but not far behind you’ve got Pieroni, Held, Haas on a good day, and by then maybe Michael Andrew will be able to stretch his 50 speed to a 100. Plus others I’m not thinking of. I think Farris’ best shot is gonna be in the 2free and maybe the 100 back. There Murphy and then a little gap to the rest. I love Grevers but I think he’ll be too old. (Prove me wrong, please!!!!)


He has Haas and Pieroni to worry about at either distance. Seliskar was magic in the 200 this past summer, and Dwyer's always a threat, but, beyond those 4, Farris would seem to have the field of 200 contenders well covered at the moment. Like you, I believe there's more depth in the 100 free, and it's more of a crap shoot to even get a relay spot. The difference between being getting a 2nd at Olympic Trials (and qualifying to swim the individual event plus at least one and maybe as many as 3 relays), and 7th, where you're completely out, be ~0.25 seconds.

As for Michael Andrew, I just don't see him as any kind of threat to Dean in the 100 Free. I can't, for the life of me, understand how he can be so pedestrian in that event, given his 50 free speed, and his emerging excellence at all 3 stroke 100's. Honestly, he presents a far bigger challenge to Farris in the 100 back than the 100 free.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 1, 19 16:34
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I haven’t seen any results for Dwyer recently, although I could have missed them. I thought he retired / got injured?

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not officially retired - his IG account still shows him at the pool sometimes, but it seems he's more interested in globetrotting with his Model GF and doing endorsements. Good for him.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
There’s a lot of good 100 guys right now. Adrian, Dressel are obviously the top 2, but not far behind you’ve got Pieroni, Held, Haas on a good day, and by then maybe Michael Andrew will be able to stretch his 50 speed to a 100. Plus others I’m not thinking of. I think Farris’ best shot is gonna be in the 2free and maybe the 100 back. There Murphy and then a little gap to the rest. I love Grevers but I think he’ll be too old. (Prove me wrong, please!!!!)


He has Haas and Pieroni to worry about at either distance. Seliskar was magic in the 200 this past summer, and Dwyer's always a threat, but, beyond those 4, Farris would seem to have the field of 200 contenders well covered at the moment. Like you, I believe there's more depth in the 100 free, and it's more of a crap shoot to even get a relay spot. The difference between being getting a 2nd at Olympic Trials (and qualifying to swim the individual event plus at least one and maybe as many as 3 relays), and 7th, where you're completely out, be ~0.25 seconds.

As for Michael Andrew, I just don't see him as any kind of threat to Dean in the 100 Free. I can't, for the life of me, understand how he can be so pedestrian in that event, given his 50 free speed, and his emerging excellence at all 3 stroke 100's. Honestly, he presents a far bigger challenge to Farris in the 100 back than the 100 free.

At the Richmond PSS (going on now) Dressel won the 200 free in a PB (1:47 and change), and he handily won the 100 fly with a ridiculous back half (24.99, 27.09, just a 2sec fade in the second 50, which includes the turn and doesn't have the benefit of the start). Also in the 100 fly, Michael Andrew finished 8th in the A final after leading at the 50 (out in 24.2, back in 29.7). It seems to me that his training approach just isn't giving him the base necessary to hold it together on the back half.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
At the Richmond PSS (going on now) Dressel won the 200 free in a PB (1:47 and change), and he handily won the 100 fly with a ridiculous back half (24.99, 27.09, just a 2sec fade in the second 50, which includes the turn and doesn't have the benefit of the start). Also in the 100 fly, Michael Andrew finished 8th in the A final after leading at the 50 (out in 24.2, back in 29.7). It seems to me that his training approach just isn't giving him the base necessary to hold it together on the back half.
At that level, a 5+s fade in the 2nd half of a 100 is unheard of, doesn't cut it, and needs to be fixed. The days of blasting off and hanging on went out the door a quarter-century ago. Most of the performances at NCAA's the guys were +2-3s max. LCM is a little different, but you won't find many over 3-3.5s slow down. Many very good coaches and swimmers have said USRPT is nothing "new", what was new was doing it exclusively, and they all said there was going to be a base issue eventually. You can do that shit when you're 12. Eventually you grow up, you have muscle mass, you have an engine that works differently. I want Michael Andrew to succeed, but at this point how do you develop what's missing? He missed years of training that almost all the world class swimmers his age had.

Dressel should be fine. He's already performed at the top of the top in LCM. It's because he's a great swimmer on top of the water in addition to the sick UW's that also made him the greatest scy swimmer of all time. Is he ever going to throw his hat into the 200 IM ring?
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ripple] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ripple wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
At the Richmond PSS (going on now) Dressel won the 200 free in a PB (1:47 and change), and he handily won the 100 fly with a ridiculous back half (24.99, 27.09, just a 2sec fade in the second 50, which includes the turn and doesn't have the benefit of the start). Also in the 100 fly, Michael Andrew finished 8th in the A final after leading at the 50 (out in 24.2, back in 29.7). It seems to me that his training approach just isn't giving him the base necessary to hold it together on the back half.
At that level, a 5+s fade in the 2nd half of a 100 is unheard of, doesn't cut it, and needs to be fixed. The days of blasting off and hanging on went out the door a quarter-century ago. Most of the performances at NCAA's the guys were +2-3s max. LCM is a little different, but you won't find many over 3-3.5s slow down. Many very good coaches and swimmers have said USRPT is nothing "new", what was new was doing it exclusively, and they all said there was going to be a base issue eventually. You can do that shit when you're 12. Eventually you grow up, you have muscle mass, you have an engine that works differently. I want Michael Andrew to succeed, but at this point how do you develop what's missing? He missed years of training that almost all the world class swimmers his age had.

Dressel should be fine. He's already performed at the top of the top in LCM. It's because he's a great swimmer on top of the water in addition to the sick UW's that also made him the greatest scy swimmer of all time. Is he ever going to throw his hat into the 200 IM ring?

Hell, at my piddly level I try to manage my 100 fly so I have a 3-3.5s fade, if I can (as long as I'm in shape).

The other thing about MA is that he basically races every meet as a shave/taper meet. He's not doing the things that basically every other world class sprinter is doing. He's not in the weight room, he's not doing any aerobic base work. Cody Miller's podcast today talked about how he was going to the Richmond meet, and his coaches had him working his ass off, no rest at all going in. I'm pretty sure Dressel is in a pretty heavy training block right now too, given that his goals for the year are centred around Worlds. Give Dressel 2 weeks of rest and a shavedown right now, and he's going 1.5-2s faster than the 52.0 he just did, and probably a 1:45 or so for the 200, whereas with MA he'll still be going 54.0. There isn't that element of untapped potential there. Under this approach, I don't see how MA makes the Olympic team next year, even in the 50, when the guys he's beating in midseason get a nice taper and shave for Trials.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Apr 12, 19 6:48
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ripple] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Meanwhile, on the other side of the globe...

https://swimswam.com/...ifetime-best50-free/

If the Aussies manage to not completely blow their Olympics like they did the last couple of cycles, it looks like we are headed for a fun head-to-head of Dressel vs Chalmers.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"If" hahaha.

At this point the Aussies have to prove to me they can consistently perform at an Olympics before I'll believe it. The Campbells, and a few select others seem to perform, but consistently across the board, they really need to put up.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Re: MA, Exactly, because what is there to taper from? When elites like Dressel are beating the hell out of themselves and teaching their bodies to race broken down, it's only natural that when rested they're going to establish a new performance benchmark. MA is essentially like the HS kid trying to get best times every race during meet season, only it never culminates in anything.

The Olympics should be exciting. Worlds won't move the needle much this year, but in 15 months I think we're going to see some special performances, and hopefully (?) most of the suit-era records are gone by the end of the week in Tokyo. I just hope the US men have enough guys that can make the jump from scy to LCM.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Even the Campbell's didn't have a great meet in Rio. They were the odds on favourites for the 100 free (at least Cate was, IIRC), but that gold went to Simone & Penny.

Horton performed well, and Chalmers was a big surprise performance. Other than that, there weren't a lot of bright spots for the Aussies.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrew is going to suffer big time at an international meet where he's expected to contribute to relays. A huge benefit from college swimming are those 3.5-day champ meets where you swim 6 events (half relays)-- and you can really see the effect it has on guys the last day of NCAA's. The world/olympic meets stretch things out a bit but Andrew does not have the background doing that many swims. I know he's done a few doubles at some named meets but not against top international competition.

Also agreed about his approach to the pro meets, he's going for max wins, trying to win money (I assume, although I think he's pretty well off), whereas some of the other established guys like Dressel are taking much longer-term seasonal approaches. I used to see the same thing from other SEC teams when I was in college; a very good swimmer that I grew up with went to Tennessee, and their approach was 'race in peak shape all season' so they were very good at early season dual meets but never improved at SEC's, whereas Florida, Auburn, and Georgia train like maniacs through December. The truly special swimmers can step up and race fast even with the hard training load (I was not one of them).

-----
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [Optimal_Adrian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am old, but it never amazes me how freekin big those boys are getting. In college I was 6'1" and a shade under 2 bills and was the 2nd biggest guy on our team. Now I would look like a runt at NCAAs. I am still wrapping my head around going in the high 30s for a 100yd free. And a guy setting a 200yd free record in a relay and not swimming the event so he can concentrate on backstroke finals. Early 70s times aren't even in the same area code as the kids today.
I don't even mention my college times anymore in the Fly or distance free as I may not even make a good HS girls travel squad. I seriously wonder if I could even make a long course 100 Fly these days, and know for sure I couldn't make a short course 200 fly 100%.
But then, Charles Barkley says he can't dunk anymore and neither can Michale Jordan. (not sure I believe the Jordan part)
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Michael Andrew's defense on that 100 fly, he had about a 12 minute turnaround from the 50 back final, where he took down Grevers, Murphy, Pebley, and Held for the win. Who knows what his mindset was for the 100 fly, but I suspect that altered his objective. "First to the 50, cruise home," maybe? That might have been more rewarding/instructive than a well-split, but mediocre, full 100.

On the subject of his training methods, I will agree that he's racing at closer to peak potential at his in season meets than many of his competitors (which isn't bad if you're trying to make a living on the Pro circuit), but to say that he's got no untapped potential to uncork at a big meet seems to ignore how many PR's he's posted at big meets the past couple seasons. I've done USRPT, at a much lower level than Andrew, and I can assure you that there is accumulated fatigue that you can shed with a reduction in workload. Not as much as with traditional training, of course, but you can unload. Whether you believe it's physical or all mental, you can't argue that Andrew doesn't mange to find another level for his personal "A" meet.

And let's not forget he's basically a college sophomore. Had he swam at NCCA championships, he'd have been the favorite in the 50 free; and a strong podium contender in the 100 back, breast, or fly. He'd obviously have been coveted for any 200 free relay. There's not a 400 Medley relay team in the country he wouldn't have made better, and he could have swum any stroke on any 200 Medley Relay team in the meet and made that relay faster. .He'd probably be considered the best underclassman in the NCAA, and, given his versatility, in the discussion for most valuable swimmer overall. So why would he doubt what he's been doing? He's remained the best of his age cohort, and his training is still netting him gains. Lastly, he's still pretty young in the scheme of things. He's gotten where he is in a different manner than Dressel got where he was at at 19, and may ultimately never be as successful as Dressel, but that doesn't mean he would have been better had he done it Dressel's way. Let's not forget that "Dressel's way" drove him to the brink of quitting at 17 years old. At least he came back from the brink. A lot of really talented age groupers burned themselves out early. MA has been able to keep himself physically healthy, and has managed to mentally cope with more outside scrutiny and second-guessing than any other teenage swimmer has ever had to endure. The lack of regular 10-14k slog-fests probably has something to do with that.


ripple wrote:
. MA is essentially like the HS kid trying to get best times every race during meet season, only it never culminates in anything.


Jeebus, he's qualified for 2019 LC Worlds in 4 individual events, and was "1st man out" on 2 more. What more would you want from a 19 year old?* ÂŻ\_(ă„)_/ÂŻ . I'll take a couple helpings of that kind of failure, thank you.

*There are only 2 younger than him on the US Worlds roster.....including the women's roster. He's a baby in this arena. IMHO, we really won't be able to assess the success or failure of the "Michael Andrew Experiment" for another 5 years.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 12, 19 12:31
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrew did indeed qualify for 2019 WCs in a total of 5 events (50/100 BR, 400 MR, 50 FR, 50 FL) but unfortunately only 3 of the 5 are Oly events, as the Oly in 2020 is not doing the 50 stroke events. So, maybe he makes the Oly team in 50 FR, 100 BR, 400 MR, and perhaps 400 FR Relay. That's 4 events which is many more than most people can claim, but it doesn't appear that he will be another Phelps in 2020. Now if in 2024 they add the 3 stroke 50s, 200 FR relay, and 200 MR, then he would have a shot at 9 medals. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericmulk wrote:
That's 4 events which is many more than most people can claim, but it doesn't appear that he will be another Phelps in 2020.


Why does he have to be "another Phelps" to be considered successful? AFIK, the kid's never said he would be the next Phelps. Others have projected that onto him.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Talking about the next Phelps is pointless, and unless some swimmer takes on that challenge themselves, best not to hoist those compassions on folks. And I see a lot of events the kid can swim, remember that we have two extra relays, which means two extra prelims. If Caleb is really going to go for the whole basket of events he can swim, he is going to need a lot of help on those relays. He should not have to swim one prelim, so we will need super fast folks to make sure we make the finals to fill in. They get medals too lets not forget, so perhaps he could swim 5 or even 6 events?
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
That's 4 events which is many more than most people can claim, but it doesn't appear that he will be another Phelps in 2020.


Why does he have to be "another Phelps" to be considered successful? AFAIK, the kid's never said he would be the next Phelps. Others have projected that onto him.

It goes back to "is USRPT the best way to train?" I say NO b/c it doesn't give the swimmer sufficient endurance reserves. I always thought Bob Bowman summed it up best in his spinach analogy: "Spinach is a great food but you don't want to eat only spinach all the time."


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericmulk wrote:
gary p wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
That's 4 events which is many more than most people can claim, but it doesn't appear that he will be another Phelps in 2020.


Why does he have to be "another Phelps" to be considered successful? AFAIK, the kid's never said he would be the next Phelps. Others have projected that onto him.


It goes back to "is USRPT the best way to train?" I say NO b/c it doesn't give the swimmer sufficient endurance reserves. I always thought Bob Bowman summed it up best in his spinach analogy: "Spinach is a great food but you don't want to eat only spinach all the time."


Jury's still out on that, IMHO. I think it depends what you focus on. Andrew's made it clear that his primary focus for 2018 and 2019 through Worlds has been the 50's. ALL the 50's. Apparently, as Murphy owns both of the automatic 50 back qualifying positions, Andrew can get a lane for that event if he has the highest FINA ranking of the remaining team members. This explains why he was so focused on that 50 back in Richmond, and treated the 100 fly that followed immediately as a "throw away" race. I think there's a very reasonable debate whether so much focus on the stroke 50's at this point is the best idea for the long game, but that's what he and his father/coach have decided and that's what he's aiming for.


I've personally had good success Using USPRT for distance training. I've discussed it at length in other threads on the topic, so I won't bog this thread down with the details, but suffice to say there's a massive aerobic component to the USRPT sets for the longer (200+) races. I just don't think Andrew is doing any of that. If I could have had Andrew's dad's ear after he missed the 2017 Worlds roster, I would have suggested he make Michael train for and race the 400 free as his A Race for an entire season. I don't think he'd ever be a great 400 swimmer, but I think he'd see big dividends in the back half of his 100's and the last leg of his 200 IM. They seem to have gone the other direction, though. He's made the Worlds roster in multiple events, including 2 Olympic events, so it's hard to argue against their direction.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 13, 19 11:03
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
1:57 in the 200 IM tonight is pretty impressive. Frankly I've never thought much of his family's approach/management from afar, and don't hold my breath for winning times on the world "A" level (yes he won the 100IM at SC worlds but that's not A level in my book) but if he can actually put that time down and or improve at a trials meet that'd open the door for the possibility.

ETA - ok i just looked at his splits, and he was only home in 30.0. Holy ouch.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Last edited by: tallswimmer: Apr 13, 19 18:41
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I was at the pool yesterday and heard from an older swimmer (who used to coach at the college level) that a club team that trained usrpt all the time ended up developing some heart arrhythmia later in life. Again, I didn’t probe him and say “but usrpt is relatively new” or “let me jump out of the pool and look that up” (or anything like that). But just wondering if anyone heard anything that before about usrpt?

Don’t mean to derail the ncaa thread though.
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [Optimal_Adrian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Optimal_Adrian wrote:
Andrew is going to suffer big time at an international meet where he's expected to contribute to relays. A huge benefit from college swimming are those 3.5-day champ meets where you swim 6 events (half relays)-- and you can really see the effect it has on guys the last day of NCAA's. The world/olympic meets stretch things out a bit but Andrew does not have the background doing that many swims. I know he's done a few doubles at some named meets but not against top international competition.

How'd he look last night on his 12th and 13th splashes in 3 days? There are a lot of things you can legitimately criticize Michael Andrew about. To say he's not used to swimming a full plate of events in a compact meet, however, suggests you haven't really been following what he's been doing for the last several years, which is racing of 6, 7, or even 8 events at countless 3 day US and International pro series events, with dozens of of double- and even triple-finals nights. All with no diving breaks.

I think we got a glimpse last night of where all this stroke-50's madness is going.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p, tallswimmer, jasoninhalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
Optimal_Adrian wrote:
Andrew is going to suffer big time at an international meet where he's expected to contribute to relays. A huge benefit from college swimming are those 3.5-day champ meets where you swim 6 events (half relays)-- and you can really see the effect it has on guys the last day of NCAA's. The world/olympic meets stretch things out a bit but Andrew does not have the background doing that many swims. I know he's done a few doubles at some named meets but not against top international competition.

How'd he look last night on his 12th and 13th splashes in 3 days? There are a lot of things you can legitimately criticize Michael Andrew about. To say he's not used to swimming a full plate of events in a compact meet, however, suggests you haven't really been following what he's been doing for the last several years, which is racing of 6, 7, or even 8 events at countless 3 day US and International pro series events, with dozens of of double- and even triple-finals nights. All with no diving breaks.
I think we got a glimpse last night of where all this stroke-50's madness is going.

I just watched the video of his 200 IM and I noticed that his breathing on freestyle seems a bit off, espec for a world class swimmer. Not sure if he's breathing late or what but I was kind of shocked to this sort of flaw in such a fast swimmer. One of the swimswam commenters pointed this out, and it does seem odd that, as he/she put it, "they still haven't figured out his freestyle breathing yet".


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
How'd he look last night on his 12th and 13th splashes in 3 days? //


No kidding. I think all this talk about his endurance is just that, talk(out the ass). He is hanging in his 50's with the best 50 guy of "all time", and then handily wins the 200IM in a time that probably gets you in the olympic final. And for all we know, his breathing on that last 50 was cruising in, or a ever so slight back off. When you are that far ahead, you know it..I will say now that he is going to be a great addition to the US team come Tokyo, scoring many points and swimming on lots of relays.


And USRPT is causing heart problems, give me a break. First of all, all endurance athletes are subject to higher rates of heart anomalies, and assigning on type of set that just came into being in the past few years, well that's just stupid...
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
How'd he look last night on his 12th and 13th splashes in 3 days? //


No kidding. I think all this talk about his endurance is just that, talk(out the ass). He is hanging in his 50's with the best 50 guy of "all time", and then handily wins the 200IM in a time that probably gets you in the olympic final. And for all we know, his breathing on that last 50 was cruising in, or a ever so slight back off. When you are that far ahead, you know it..I will say now that he is going to be a great addition to the US team come Tokyo, scoring many points and swimming on lots of relays.


And USRPT is causing heart problems, give me a break. First of all, all endurance athletes are subject to higher rates of heart anomalies, and assigning on type of set that just came into being in the past few years, well that's just stupid...

Yeah, but it was somewhat justified talk out of the ass. He really hadn't shown that he had the back half endurance so far. That was a breakthrough swim for MA, I think it was a 2+ second PB? Good for him. I am curious if he has anything above that with a taper, we know that Kalisz will be faster than that at Trials, and Seliskar is on a steep upward trajectory. The US men's IM is looking pretty solid these days, it will be tougher to make the US team than to make the Oly final.

I really doubt he backed off in the last 50. He laid down a 33.5-ish breast split, which is near as good as what Phelps and Lochte could do. He was toasted on the last 50, but a 30.0 on the last 50 isn't terrible given how fast he took it out.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The US men's IM is looking pretty solid these days, it will be tougher to make the US team than to make the Oly final. //

If you take out the top 2 IM'ers of all time(which it looks like we have now, Locate still swimming?) That swim would have been fighting for the top medals in the last olympics. I would say a better taper and a year and a half, should lop some more time off that too. I have always felt that the 200IM was really just a collection of 4 50's, not an actual 200. I think you are right in that he was full gas at the end, but that just shows he still has room for improvement. Instead of training 25's like he said he was prior to this meet, start doing 50's to get ready for what might end up being his best event.


Anyway very exciting to see so many new guys step up, our trials is going to be brutal, once again, like always...
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
The US men's IM is looking pretty solid these days, it will be tougher to make the US team than to make the Oly final. //

If you take out the top 2 IM'ers of all time(which it looks like we have now, Locate still swimming?) That swim would have been fighting for the top medals in the last olympics. I would say a better taper and a year and a half, should lop some more time off that too. I have always felt that the 200IM was really just a collection of 4 50's, not an actual 200. I think you are right in that he was full gas at the end, but that just shows he still has room for improvement. Instead of training 25's like he said he was prior to this meet, start doing 50's to get ready for what might end up being his best event.


Anyway very exciting to see so many new guys step up, our trials is going to be brutal, once again, like always...

The issue is that MA's training approach doesn't really lend itself to tapering. That's kind of how it is designed, Rushall basically says that one of the benefits is that kids following the approach have the benefit of swimming fast all year long, not just at a couple of "peak" meets. He's in a perma-taper mode.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The issue is that MA's training approach doesn't really lend itself to tapering.//

Well tapering is not all physical, the mental aspect of it can be huge in some guys. At any rate, perhaps this is the future of swimming, being able to swim much closer to your potential 10 times a year, instead of just maybe two. If you are a professional making a living swimming every month, this might be the best method.. And his time in what amounted to a TT over a body length off the front, would have been fighting for the gold medal without the two best of all time. And he was obviously gassed and stretched after the race(as he should have been) but it just feels like he could get better at distance swimming. So all of that equals a guy with a great shot at olympic medals, today at least...


And about the USRPT and tapering, what if you wouldn't have gone any faster in a traditional buildup and taper at the end anyway, wouldn't you rather have swam fast all year too?? We really dont know their is a penalty for this program in the big meets, so to me, if there really is no penalty, I would absolutely rather swim fast all year...
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Basically what Katinka does. Swims lights out all year, racing into shape, but then when the big lights are on, "underperforms" expectations. When traditional expectations are placed on swimmers like Katinka and MA, they are seen as failures, because the only thing that matters to the general swimming audience is World and Olympic medals. World Cup $$$ doesn't count towards greatness.

A few years ago FINA gave swimmer of the year to Katinka over Ledecky and everyone was up in arms. Katie destroyed everyone at 200/400/800/1500 at Worlds, but Katinka had nibbled away at SCM world records and wins on the World Cup circuit and got more "credit".

What's right? To me the big medals on the big stages, but if MA or Katinka's benchmark are just W's and paychecks, that's on them.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply


"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cute, but it isn’t really possible to say, at this point, whether USPRT gives the same results as a grind and taper approach at big meets when it really counts, simply because MA is pretty much the only top level guy doing it. He might be even better under a traditional approach. Or he might be burned out. Who knows???

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Read my post again.

I don't dispute that. But what's the point? Would you rather spend a whole season at 90% of your potential, or the majority of your season at 75% with one pop at 100%?

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
The issue is that MA's training approach doesn't really lend itself to tapering.//

Well tapering is not all physical, the mental aspect of it can be huge in some guys. At any rate, perhaps this is the future of swimming, being able to swim much closer to your potential 10 times a year, instead of just maybe two. If you are a professional making a living swimming every month, this might be the best method.. And his time in what amounted to a TT over a body length off the front, would have been fighting for the gold medal without the two best of all time. And he was obviously gassed and stretched after the race(as he should have been) but it just feels like he could get better at distance swimming. So all of that equals a guy with a great shot at olympic medals, today at least...


And about the USRPT and tapering, what if you wouldn't have gone any faster in a traditional buildup and taper at the end anyway, wouldn't you rather have swam fast all year too?? We really dont know their is a penalty for this program in the big meets, so to me, if there really is no penalty, I would absolutely rather swim fast all year...

Maybe, but even if tapering is mental then you need to have something to taper from. Like he said n his interview, right now he’s swimming 25’s and surfing.

Personally, I would hate USRPT. I’m at the point where I would rather enjoy training, I only swim a couple of meets per year so most of my time is spent training. I get my kicks out of inventlng new workouts, to be doing the same set if 25’s or 50’s every time would kill my motivation. I rarely repeat the same practice twice.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tallswimmer wrote:
Read my post again.

I don't dispute that. But what's the point? Would you rather spend a whole season at 90% of your potential, or the majority of your season at 75% with one pop at 100%?

False dichotomy? It's baseless speculation to suggest he's leaving big-meet potential on the table by not embracing the traditional grind-and-taper training methodology.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
And from across the pond... Adam Peaty is in action at the British Champs.

prelims of the 100 breast - 58.5 with a 26.90 split at the 50!! Apparently he's been working on his start.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
And from across the pond... Adam Peaty is in action at the British Champs.

prelims of the 100 breast - 58.5 with a 26.90 split at the 50!! Apparently he's been working on his start.

Pretty impressive finals swim, especially that first half. His 50 split would make him the 3rd best 50 breaststroker in history :o

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Pretty impressive finals swim, especially that first half. His 50 split would make him the 3rd best 50 breaststroker in history :o
Ya, but of course the first 50 from a 100 of the guy that dominates the distance, should be pretty fast. Without looking, I think Caleb went 23.3 or so for his 1st 50 when he when 50 flat, untappered and unshaved, in a meet where it was a lark event for him..That might put him in the running for top 3 fastest 50 breast guys too... (-;
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Pretty impressive finals swim, especially that first half. His 50 split would make him the 3rd best 50 breaststroker in history :o
Ya, but of course the first 50 from a 100 of the guy that dominates the distance, should be pretty fast. Without looking, I think Caleb went 23.3 or so for his 1st 50 when he when 50 flat, untappered and unshaved, in a meet where it was a lark event for him..That might put him in the running for top 3 fastest 50 breast guys too... (-;


Short Course Yards, that race is well more than half underwaters which is where he excelled. I think he took 18 strokes for the entire 100 SCY. He'd probably be right around there for a total stroke count on a 50M LC. His on top of the water breaststroke speed isn't top-3-in-the-world good, and it shows when he goes Long Course. At the Richmond Pro, he went 28.03 and 27.99, finishing 4th in the final. He was 6 to 7 tenths of a second off his best 50 free and 50 fly times at that same meet, suggesting he's maybe a low 27 second 50LM breaststroker at best. BTW, he was 2.5 and 3 seconds slower than Michael "no endurance" Andrew on the breast leg of the 200 IM (prelims and finals).

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 16, 19 16:22
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Short Course Yards, that race is well more than half underwaters which is where he excelled.//

Of course I know all of this, and I know he was swimming"through" this past meet. And yes, he is not a classic breastroker, but for an off event, I bet he could do very well in a shave and taper situation. Certainly in short course, but even in LCM might not be too bad, you still have a start there...I doubt(and hopefully) we never have to see him shaved and tapered for a breaststroke event, that would mean our guys really sucked..


You have to admit though, if it was a short course 50m we were talking about, he would be right there...
Quote Reply
Re: 2019 NCAA D1 Swimming thread. [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Small Dean Farris news: he is taking a year off at Harvard and training with Eddie down in Texas. Not a big surprise here...
Quote Reply