Look good, but can we get another color instead of black ? Too much black ...

More seriously, can one mount an aftermarket handlebar on this bike?

How about for the P5-disc (mounting an aftermarket bar) with those partner companies?

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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I don't think there is any current bar that fits the Cervelo 'seatpost' style. I would say that there might be options from the regular components firms in year or so. They would have to make a complete replica of how the bar mounts at the stem since that is one piece.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

There's a blue & yellow one too

and if you don't mind, good sir: slowtwitch

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Not what I was expecting honestly. Was expecting a P3 Disc non beam bike.

$10k or $8k. Doesn't really seem to be targeting the existing P3 owner crowd.

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blog

I wass in the Press Meet in Scottsdale 2 weeks ago.

Short answer: No.
Long answer (as Tririg Alpha One “in love”user): no need to use an aftermarket in this handlebar as offers more or less the same possibilities than Alpha One; monopost, tilt, 22.2 bars, great adjustments, light, comfortable...)

Gosh those are nice!! Still expensive but not ridiculously so.

Indeed

Ultegra di2 + 32mm alu wheels (training wheels) :

P5 Disk : 7500€
P3X : 8000€

So, it is more expensive than P5 Disk with similar group/wheels.
"Slightly" more expensive frame, i.e.

then, moving up :

P3X Ultegra di2 with race wheels : 10k€
vs
P5 Disk Dura-Ace with race wheels : 12k€
vs
P5X 12k€ or 16k€

There is some room for a P3 Disk (similar to P5 Disk) at 4k€/6k€, but I guess Cervelo (and Canyon, and Trek, ...) are waiting for the market to really accept the disk brakes, and also probably to have more disk brakes wheels available at good prices.

Very nice. I would like to see a Dura Ace Di2 configured P3X, as well. Seems strange to not offer a top end groupset on a bike at this price point.

When they issued the first P5X, I wasn't too keen on how it looked, but after several years, and many disc bike launches, 'the look' this time around looks better. Possibly, due to it looking more like a typical bike, than the original P5X, and now used to disc brakes being on every major new model.

I was thinking the same thing!
I was hoping for current P3 with disk around 6500 USD
So I will pass but great bike!

That's hot. I'm kind of jealous now.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

P3x looks better in every way. Why is it slower than a P5x though? Is it the smaller stealthbox?

Unfortunately sounds like the P3x is no longer made in the USA like the P5x.

I'm also curious about statements such as "If you remake the P5 so that it can haul all your stuff it’s slower than creating a new frame platform built for the purpose." With a proper setup that includes a BTS flat-kit, top-tube nutrition, and BTA hydration is the P5 really still slower? I remember the white paper that had gels taped to the top tube, which isn't representative of most setups.

Maybe there’s going to be a P2x variant and the P3/P2 disc can’t be far away.

I'm going to wait for the P2X. Hope it comes in yellow.

Looks sweet but needs more colors. If they make a coral one my wife will make me buy her one! On second thoughts they need to keep them all black...…………..

i think this is a great bike and a great move for cervelo.

that said, it makes me sad that this bike isnt being produced by HED with HED wheels. i really liked that "american made" aspect of the bike. from a financial standpoint its understandable though.

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

Except it is. Maybe not the 0.05% of triathletes at the very pointy end. But as cervelo’s research has shown most long course athletes load up their bikes with gels on top tubes etc.

We had this very same argument where people kept saying “that’s not how I set up my bike” and they were right. But ST users forget that there are many many more triathletes in the world, most haven’t even heard of ST and they mostly set to their bikes differently to you.

Hell, I’m on ST and I set up my bike like that!! And I’m more like the majority than most of the people on here.

Great review! Near the end of your P3x write up is this: "As noted in my accompanying article on the handlebars for both Cervelo’s new bikes..."

I don't see this on the main page or under the product tri bike or handlebar pages. Is it buried somewhere else or still a work in progress?

Well the re-sale value of the P5X just did a bitcoin. Because this is really P5X rev 2.

I'm actually taking delivery of a new P5X tonight so the timing for me is horrible lol. I wonder if I can get a discount now :)

At first I was a bit miffed that my LBS never mentioned anything about this or the P5D to me when I placed my order... after looking at it in more detail though the P5X is still the best option of the bunch FOR ME. The P5D doesn't appeal to me at all and if I bought the P3X I'd have to immediately replace the components, upgrade the wheels and purchase a new bike box so in the end it'd probably cost me more... plus I'm partial to the made in USA aspect of the P5X and the Enve wheel/bars and the modular base bar so I'm OK... for now!!

It's a really good looking bike, personally I like the blue/yellow combo, but that price point... yeeesh. And that's coming from a guy who's fortunate enough to shrug off a purchase like that. I really thought they'd target the $4,500-$5,500 price point with this bike.

IMO there's a huge market opportunity for someone to make something like the old Trek Speed Concept 2.5 and sell it for ~$1,200 with HED Jet-style faired aluminum wheels.

Does the p3x riser bar fit the p5x? I.e. is the monopost the same?

it's there now.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Agreed, lighter, only marginally slower (17 grams) cheaper (extremely relative).

One important and mostly unnoticed thing is removable d-hanger.

Geo looks the same.

Maurice

Does this man Cervelo will be updating the standard P3?

Was hoping for a frameset only option. :(

there just might be an article that describes this in detail!

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Yep read the article and searched for p5x in it but didn't see anything mentioned if it was compatible.

CT

I wonder if they'll update the P5x?

If I'm gonna spend ~$10k on a Cervelo I want at least a '4'.

0.05%? So 1 in 2,000 P5 riders use aftermarket top tube storage? Come on. At least half the bikes in IM transition these days have something like x-lab top tube nutrition storage and a simple BTA bottle. Not only that, but we are talking about the P5. People riding P5s are (generally) more likely to be near FOP and/or care about aero solutions enough use a bento.

Slowman, saw your explanation for the p5x in the p5 disc thread.

I was wondering if you can delve further into the improved "handling" the p3x seem to have over the p5x. To the nakd eye, it seems steerer tube angles are similar between the two frames.

Your article only alludes to it, though one of the other articles bryand linked trashed the p5x as being difficult to handle and the p3x being the solution everyone was waiting for.

So is this 90% new bike hype and 10% facts, or is there more truth to it?

Dan in your article you said that P5D and P3x monopost riser are compatible, but the question Was is the P5D and P3x risers are compatible with P5X ?

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Professional French Bike Shop.
https://www.instagram.com/zebikeshop/

when you're in the aero position, there is very little to differentiate between the 5x and the 3x, as regards handling. at least to my palate. maybe others are better able to distinguish between bikes than i am. whenever i was out of the saddle, that's when the 3x felt more like a double diamond bike, both in weight and just overall. and that's kind of what you want out of a beam bike.

that said, the p5x was, for me, a dream to handle. i got the 3x up to about 45mph. i got the 5x up to about 55mph, on a skinny road, on gusty winds, in crosswinds. rock solid bike.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

as i was writing an "i don't know" i just got a text that answered this for me: yes, they're cross-compatible.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am surprised because i test today at my Shop a P5disc riser dont fit into P5X basebar.
Perhaps need to change the basebar of p5x by a P5D or P3X...

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Professional French Bike Shop.
https://www.instagram.com/zebikeshop/

i heard it from cervelo directly that they're all cross-compatible. further, the P5X split base bar is cross-compatible with the P3X.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Thanks Dan 😉

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Professional French Bike Shop.
https://www.instagram.com/zebikeshop/

Ok so I'm a tad confused with Cervelo's lineup now. It seems like the P3X is in many ways an upgrade to the P5X, its both lighter and stiffer. Is there any reason to purchase the P5X over the P3X?

it is considered by those who're familiar with both editions that the ENVE-made front end of the P5X may be superior, specifically the:

1. 2pc base bar.
2. i'm not certain of this, but i've heard the granularity with which you can adjust the tilt in the P5X is greater.
3. it's a very fast front end. if the P5X is very slightly faster than the P3X, this may be where it's faster.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Question for you, what is the reason for wanting the mono-riser from the P3X bar in the P5X?

Also,
Does anyone know if the seatpost is compatible. Looks like some potential weight savings and a better designed rear bottle holder perhaps? I wish they had a dual holder on the rear!

its a tiny bit faster, and has foldable bars and a travel case for its pricing

and comes with better oem wheels

There is this stupid "hump" in the middle of the p5x riser that means I can't get aftermarket arm cups in close enough for me. The p3x looks flat straight across so I could in theory legit have my elbows touching if I wanted.

Or this...blue & green one behind this. These are the only 2 in existence...this is the launch. See them in person at Colorado Multisport. Cervelo rep is there to talk and take questions this evening in about an hour on the project. It's slick & yes, those bars "tilt" he said (they are aluminum). It's sitting on the floor of the shop...waiting to be bought (well, maybe not the exact same ones--dunno, didn't ask if these specifically were for sale...maybe he meant these were the only 2 in existence for public viewing at this time?)

I've been racing for almost 20 years now, and have never been taken by the aesthetics of the Cervelo bikes. Never disagreed with the tech side or the performance, but to my eyes wasn't ever anything that appealed. I admit fully that I was also the freak that saw the Ceepo tron bike and loved it.

However, I've been looking for something to replace my old bike for a while now, and just couldn't find anything that ticked the boxes I was after. Now the odd thing is that I didn't like the look of the P5x, yet I admit that either time has mellowed me, or that having seen the Andean in the flesh what's left of my retinas has been recalibrated, but the black /red P3x I like. Still don't like the blue one, but the black.....

And I genuinely can see me going for one of these assuming they arrive in a sensible timescale and aren't the vapourware of some other brands.

FWIW then my 'requirements' are storage, NZ distribution, disk brakes and sidewind stability. Note that aero I've not explicitly listed as I'm taking that the differences between anything that meets the above is going to be fairly minimal, and those differences would be dwarfed if I had to carry on with my 'hinky taping of bars, etc', and sitting up when going past the gaps in the hedges and my current frame / wheels go lethal.

So after not being able to find even an option for the last 12 months, then I'll be getting the tape measure out for stack/reach measurements this weekend. I just come back to hoping that these actually become available in the next 3 months.

The new-sale value of a P5X did a bitcoin 9 months ago.

Ah ok. Good to know. I wasn’t sure if there was an aero/weight/Adjustability reason for it so I was a bit confused. That makes sense though!! Thanks for clarifying.

Available late April (I don't have NZ pricing yet but converting from USD will give you a good idea). We could take the opportunity to check if your position can be tweaked to get CdA closer to mine then set up a P3X to match perfectly...

It's not unusual that when a bike company launches a new model, it could be considered a "model XYZ killer". But usually model "XYZ" is made by the competition, not another model in its own lineup.

Have to think that the P3X & P5X have too much storage and the new P5 doesn't have quite enough.

Is that using the USD:NZD currency conversion rate of the more typical 5x USD:NZD rate for anything bought here? ;-)



Oooh, you're good. Smoothly done sir. I did sent the link to She Who Must Be Obeyed earlier, and as of yet haven't had a definitive no. However, given my cockup in timing of 'informing' her I was doing IMNZ 2020 3 weeks before IMNZ19 whilst collapsed on the sofa on a Saturday PM for the 20th week in a row, I'm still on very thin ice. I admit she is currently 300km away and hasn't actually responded to the message other than with a "$$" message, which I'm seeing as a positive as it wasn't $$$. (Note to others, I'm not a dentist, and please don't take this as a start of the obligatory discussion on the price being crazy high / bargain war.).

Mate..!.! I’ll be one of the first of ogle...I mean look at your new pony if you get one.!.! And no jealousy whatsoever....does look nice, and would look great in my garage next to my R3....

Wow, so now even Cervelo's mid priced offering is beyond the reach of most people. Is this really the direction we want to move triathlon in? Will other manufacturers follow with similarly priced mid level offerings?

Just hang in there for the P2X, it'll come with Ultegra di2, shallower wheels, and be the bargain price of 7500€

I wonder what the true cost of making their bikes are. I've seen from multiple media & industry sources that margins on bikes are thin as it is. You'd think there has to be a heckuva mark up at these prices. R & D costs a lot I'm sure, like pharmaceuticals biz, but some of these bike & wheel companies just have to tank/go out of business if they can't bring down the prices. After all, there isn't a huge tri market vs a road or mountain bike market. I think the new P5D just seems like it is $2K overpriced. I wouldn't buy one for $7500. I'll stick with my 2010 P3. Actually, I'm thinking the FELT is a really good deal, or a Quintana Roo for what you get for the money.

Cervelo--are you listening?

No, Cervelo isn't.

They are still the number one brand in tri, why should they?

So, I said in the P5 Disc thread that the P5x would need to be updated based upon the P5 Disc somehow being "Faster". But I was probably thinking wrongly as I thought the P3x was just gonna be a disc and really a part of the "x" family. So with that, what are the changes down the pipe for the 2020 P5x?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I'd agree. All signs point to a new P5x at Kona.


Utilising the P3x frame improvements of stiffer & lighter.
Perhaps keep the split basebars but lighten.
Include the bag.
Better wheels.
Better groupset (etap/duraace di2)

Poss slight tweak to storage/aero frame form.


Funny thing is, P3x is better frame, but if wanting the split bars, case & wheel upgrade you are probably looking at close to P5x price anyway.
At least a lighter/stiffer version however.

None. I read elsewhere it’s being discontinued.

Excuse my ignorance, but would it be realistic to see a non disc version og the p3x (like a p2x), as i would assume that could drive cost down significantly, or are they simply settled into disc now?

I'm just thinking of the future for buyers, now you can either buy and old p2/p3, or you have to take a gigantic jump to these super expensive bikes.

I'd wager very unlikely.

The future is disc brakes whether we chose to get on board now or in a few years.

All the tech, aero and focus is around this area. Highly doubt further development on rim brake models will occur.

Some shops are still only selling 20-30%of bikes as discs, others up near 40-50% I hear.
I thought it would be a lot higher by now but guess we are slow to change.

I know I'm only looking at disc models for my next TT and road bike.

Yeah thanks, that is what i guessed. I just hope the prices on disc comes down then, because they leave a lot of the nicer bikes out of reach for most people. E.g. compare the p3x in price to a Canyon CF SLX for example.

I'm pretty sure Cervelo will move, in order to counter Felt and QR mid-range disk brakes Tri bikes (4-7k€ range).
And also to counter next move from Trek and the big bad wolf.... Canyon

Cervelo P3 Disk, very similar to the P5 Disk, with similar (not yet satisfying) storage ?
4k€ for Ultegra mechanical + basic wheels
6k€ for Ultegra di2 + reasonable wheels

First pictures leak in Kona, then a 25 pages ST thread riddled with frustration of "why not yet launched" before an official presentation in march 2020 ?

4k (P3)
6k (P3)
8k (P5 + P3X)
10k (P3X)
12k (P5 + P5X)
16k (P5X)

looks like a stepped range :-)

I suspect cervelo is gonna simplify their naming. Next bike they release is gonna be a p2 disc, making their lineup: p5 disc, p3x, p2 disc. Nice and simple and no conflicting x's and discs and such.

I was wondering if that was Dan's next 'special' news for p5x owners, that they are going to own the last versions of the x family made by HED.

Just look at it. It's a slightly modified P5x. And this is the price at release so lower spec models may come. What price were you expecting for this spaceship?

I can guess what you're implying by "direction" triathlon is moving in, but the existence of Ferraris doesn't impact availability of Hondas. There are still plenty of affordable tri bikes out there. I'm glad we get to have both. While I probably won't own a P3x, I think it's neat and hope such bikes keep coming.

no. there's a particular technical element about the P5X that makes this element superior to what you see on the P3X, at least for certain riders. while the P3X holds advantages over the P5X in weight and frame stiffness, the P5X has virtues of its own that are favored by riders who have a fair bit of miles under each bike.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

my guess is that the P5X is going away. i may be wrong. maybe they'll reintroduce it based on the P3X frame and add some doodads to make it worth whatever the extra is. maybe bring back the 2pc pursuit bar and/or the travel case. maybe add an AM/FM radio. but the P3X is going to be the best frame in the PX platform, that's my guess. anything new will be a riff off this frame.

the old P5 mold and the U.S-built P5X mold will be retired is my guess.

which leaves us with the P2 and P3. i think QR has a strategic advantage over everyone else right now with the PR4 disc. If you want a really nice, well made, disc brake tri bike and you want to spend in the range of $3000, this is your bike. plus, because they have both paint and assembly at their chattanooga hdqt, they have some logistical mobility. this brand is ahead of everyone in this regard: canyon, cervelo, felt, specialized, trek. nobody can match this. are they making money? how well are they executing? i have no idea.

all of this could change tomorrow. but strategically that's how i see it. while cervelo did an outstanding, really outstanding, job with its aerobars, QR is relying on profile design, and PD is killing it with its aerobars. QR is saying, we'll stick to frames, we'll trust QR to make the bars. this has been a good wager for QR. the one area where cervelo has an advantage in front ends is with the speed riser. only tririg has realized the strategic advantage of this and has picked up on it.

so, pardon the digression, but cervelo is the other disc brake tri bike maker, besides QR, that is hitting on all cylinders right now, and yes, i think you're right to assume that the next time you hear from cervelo about new tri bikes it'll be with a focus on the P2 and P3. i don't know this. but it would be the logical choice. what i can say is that i don't think anybody should wait to buy their sub-$4000 cervelo tri bikes. i have no tri bikes for the next several months on my "launch" calendar, tho i do have a tickler to check in with specialized on when the new shiv disc is shipping.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Interesting Cervelo would move to discontinue their most premium platform. Obviously they did more designing when it came to a downstream platform of course...but it wouldn't make much sense to me to just discontinue the platform. But I suppose it will be like the latter...This is the new frame, but here are the differences--Price a Doohickies.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

i don't see it as a discontinuation. to me, the platform is the PX. the spec differentiates it. so, perhaps when the P3X is spec'd with dura ace or red electronic, and maybe the split pursuit comes back (don't know) it's the P5X. just, i think what you saw here is the reintroduction of this platform. i also don't think it's their most premium platform. it's tied with the new P5, and each is differentiated by use case, not by heirarchy.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Cervelo may create that as their most premium offering, but gosh, to the non-slow twitcher who looks at Beam Bikes as the thing, it doesn't really send the correct signals when it comes to Marketing.

And yes, I'm giving direct feedback to that idea and stating it is an issue.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

i don't understand what you have a problem with. can you restate it?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Not sure if you meant to reply to me, but i wasn't referencing any performance difference, just the fact that it might be the last chance to own a hed built p5x.
Always was a fan of Steve Hed, and would love to own one.

My guess is the P5X stays in the line up but not as it is now. It will be made in the same factory as the P3X, utilizes the P3X molds, has the split aerobar which they start making in house, and has Dura Ace Di2 and SRAM Red eTap AXS components to justify the higher price. Maybe they use a different carbon lay up to make it even lighter than the P3X as well but it will be mostly a component difference. They did it a few years ago when the 2-series in their line ups were 105 bikes, the 3's were Ultegra and the 5's were Dura Ace or eTap.

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Brian Jacobson
Fit2Ride Velo Studio
http://www.fit2ridevelo.com

Then stop looking at beam bikes as the thing... It's a means to an end. If the end is the same, who cares what it looks like

Perhaps Cervelo is trying to do an Apple strategic change and try to normalise higher pricing and go from a competition bike brand to a luxury bike brand?

That is an interesting idea. When it came to purchasing a new bike I went "traditional" with an Argon 18 E-119.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I don't think this is new. P3, P3C, P4, P5, P5X, NP5. All those were introduced at the top tier of cost at the time. Cervelo isn't breaking new ground here. The latest Felt DA (now old) was introduced in 2012 at $12,500 with a $5000 frameset. And its innovation - the Bayonet fork - is hardly in the same class as what Cervelo is doing here.

Exactly. The difference is "at the time". The prices are increasing at an alarming rate. Since the top tier price seams to increase with every iteration, the second tier price follows suit and it is expected that the consumers should take the bait.

I identify myself as a second tier consumer (perhaps the wrong expression, but I think you understand what I mean). I will never buy the top end; I value quality and expect to pay for it, but not at any cost - typically second tier products like Cervelo P3, S3, R3, Ultegra etc instead of P5, Dura Ace.

But now the whole price landscape has changed.

Or it'll just be:

Cervelo P
Available w/ 105, Ultegra, Ultegra Di2, DA Di2, Red AXS (various wheelsets, handlebars)

Cervelo PX
Available w/ Ultegra Di2, DA Di2, Red AXS (various wheelsets, handlebars)

I'm relatively OK with that, although I'm jealous of those who can afford a bike like this. My only concern is if more manufacturers follow. Cervelo has always been a niche brand as they only make racing bikes, so that would be pretty on character for this sort of shop. I just don't want to see Specialized, Trek, Canyon, etc follow.

I've been desperately hoping for an Argon with disk brakes. Just looks like they've left it a season too late to get something to market for me.

I do feel sorry for Cervelo. 3 months ago, they were being told by the ST Posters (totally unbiased representative cross section of the population) that they needed to bring out something cheaper than the P5x. Ideally something that looked more like a normal bike. And something that was lighter.

So they brought out the P5d. And people said , "fine, but where do I keep my sarnies, and my iphone when I'm out and need to take a selfie? "

So they deliver the p3x, alongside the P5d, and people say, OK, so now we've got light bikes, aero, and cheaper. Can we have a more expensive one please, it's madness that I can't pay more now they've taken the P5x away that I didn't want as it was too expensive.

Someone above joked that the p5x would add an FM radio to the P3x, but honestly thinking of functionality it's pretty hard to see what 'more' you could want from a frame*.

*I do see that for some then a version with powermeter, disc wheel, and AXS/DA would be the spec they would go for and that's not in the p3x lineup at launch.

Overall, I'm not really sure that much is different on this frame from the previous paint job. Considering 90% of their road bikes have disc, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the next move. I'm probably going to buy the Krypton CS.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Another bike that wont fit me (pad x/y 510/575). I'm guessing Grill and Fishbum are shit out of luck too.

Mind you it's a tri bike and probably designed by Cervelo to be ridden like a penny farthing, as is their wont of late.

Anyone else wondering if the saddle rail/BTS configuration looks like it limits the setback quite a bit?

Noticed it but a closer look showed the cage can be mounted in a lower position too.

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-shoki

It's frustrating but this is how consumers operate in every market. If you're a car guy, you'll notice that any and every car that is released is too expensive, too low on power, etc according to the masses

I was at an event 2 days ago where Cervelo presented the bike. In his presentation he called it "affordable" generating some chuckles in the audience. He then clarified and said affordable for a certain segment.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

But comparing it to the P5X it is considerably more affordable.

I just don't think it is realistic to expect a bike like this with Ultegra Di2 to be $4k or $5k...Im not sure where this expectation comes from, especially when you consider the P5X pricing.

Are there bikes with Ultegra Di2 that are lower priced? Sure...but they are not like this bike nor do they have the P5X legacy as a starting point.

Maybe I'm in the minority with this reasoning. I like the bike. But I like the P5X too.

I think the pricing for what you get sounds about right. Having said that, I think we are wanting a slightly lesser bike for a lower price. These new prices are driving me away from—not toward—disc brakes. I agree with Dan than QR has to feel really good about their price point.

No it hasn’t. The p5 disc is literally the exact same price as the p5 was 5 years ago. The x platform is more expensive because of what it is and how hard the mold is to make. This shouldn’t come as a surprise when you look at the p5x prices.

Wait till they introduce the p3 disc bike at some point and the price point will probably be the same as the what the old p3 rim brake bike is.

In 2006 when I bought a p3c frameset with no bars it was 3600. You can get a new p5 disc frameset for 5000 with a bar now for a much faster frameset. Prices have been pretty darn stable or decreasing in a lot of cases. Now the p3 frameset is 2800.

I'm not remarking on whether it's the right price or not for the P3X... But calling it "affordable" is pretty funny. It's like calling a Ferrari F8 "affordable". Yeah... When you're standard is a La Ferarri.

Even among triathletes $8k to $10k is still a very expensive bike. And the $8k one doesn't come with race wheels.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Indeed, the 5k frameset price of the P5D is the same as the top end Felt in 2012 or whenever it came out. Cervelo is not cranking up the prices, it's the wheels and components. Has anyone noticed how much wheels have grown in price over the last 7-8 years?

Look at SRAM, the new AXS is brilliant but far more expensive than the prior Etap system...is that due to the improved technology and innovation or them trying to improve the margin on this gen system?

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

Like anything in this world...it's all relative. In this case, it is DEFINITELY more affordable than the P5X. You can't deny that fact.

Spoke to my mechanic at Moxie. Always full of knowledge. He had some time and showed me some stuff on the new P5 frame that came from some of the Mountain Bike guys when it came to the design. He's quite pleased with how easy it is to wrench. We also looked at the mono-riser and how easy it is to disassemble as I also talked about flying with my bike to Michigan and what Cervelo has done for the P5 and P3x. He was really into all the new stuff that they've done with both designs. So that's a selling point if I had been in the market for a bike.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

justridingalong wrote:

But comparing it to the P5X it is considerably more affordable.

You've been tricked by the "halo effect". Manufacturers make a super expensive product to make their other ones seem more valuable as well. Humans are excellent at one thing - comparing. We are terrible at another thing - objective reasoning.

https://conversionxl.com/blog/halo-effect/


You are deciding the bike's value by comparing it to another bike the manufacturer makes that is completely unrealistic. Notice that Cervelo hardly sells any of those P5x's and doesn't really care if they do - they just want some out there to be seen so they can raise the price of the rest of their bikes for more profit. Car manufacturers do it all the time.

https://www.autobytel.com/...er-the-years-129642/

We even do it with people, called the "cheerleader effect".

Any time you find yourself or somebody reasoning that something's worth by comparing, back up and double-check you are figuring out the value based on what it has, not what it's sitting next to.

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Tricked? Ha.

At the end of the day, affordability is relative. Some people buy a bike every year...others buy one every ten years. You don't shop for a $1 million dollar house and complain about the price to the realtor if your budget is $300k. Same principal applies to bikes I guess.

If you can't afford it...fine. If you or someone else can...thats fine too. Car manufacturers make cars at all different price points. Some bottles of wine are $200 while others are $20.

I don't find this pricing out of the realm of the pricing of any other 'super bike' or high end product. Are there options less expensive? Yes. Are there options more expensive" Definitely. Would it be cool if it was less expensive? Sure...would MORE people find it affordable? Probably. But walk around any Ironman race and you will see that plenty of people feel that $8k to $15k is perfectly reasonable (maybe even affordable for them?) amount of money to spend on a bike.

Summary: I can see your point, but you should be open to seeing my point as well.

I agree with this. I have a friend who I train with and he and I were talking earlier in the year about races we wanted to do. He mentioned Campeche as a good option for us and our spouses. I said it could be but would need to think on it due the time off from work and other plans we have. He replied, 'we can just take my private jet and down the morning of the race, and then back after if time was short'.

Some people live in very different contexts and what would be crazy or terribly expensive to one, is quite feasible or inexpensive to another.

Jack

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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Given the P3X only comes with Ultegra Di2, it makes no sense to get rid of the frame (P5X) that has top of the line components, unless, they are replacing the P5X with a new model or they will release a P3X with top line components and wheels.

Somehow I doubt that Cervelo had the P5X out there for three years to set up the P3X via halo effect.

More likely they figured out the P5X was just too expensive, so they cut costs in manufacturing.

Cervélo did their media release of the P5X at Kona in 2016, so it’s been around less than 2.5 years, and didn’t really start selling multiple sizes until 2017. It wasn’t until 2018 that an owners thread popped up on ST (with very few actual owners discussing their bikes on ST) so I’m not sure how other halo bikes have sold, but I would guess that it’s been a very difficult price point to move these bikes. Some of their pros chose to race using their P5 instead, along with the bike weighing 22 pounds hasn’t helped push any sales. Yes, weight might not be importent on a flat course, but it is on hillier courses and who really wants an unloaded stripped down bike starting at 22 pounds. Throw on your hydration, food, and flat kit and you have a 26+ pound bike. I also remember seeing brand new P5Xs on eBay early last year for more than 35% off retail from bike shops trying to unload their inventory. All the preceding, along with bikes being at peak aero for a while, per Kiley’s aero shootout, sounds like the tri buying market gave it an overall meh.

The P3X and P5D look more interesting, but most top bikes released in the last 10 years are probably almost as aero. A tri rig front end, on an older P3 with a rear disc wheel might even be more aero than these non rear disc wheel bikes.

Specialized already made their move.
Trek - TBD
Canyon isn't going to change horses in the middle of a streak. They're gaining market share every year while only making 'slight' price changes. If for some reason they decided to change course, another brand would fill the void pretty fast. Maybe QR if they decided to properly go worldwide.

Interesting that they have upped their price for the 9.0 LTD from NZD$14,999 to NZD$15,699 with no apparent spec changes.

One thing I would like to point out that often gets lost in the $/speed calculus: the price difference between something like a QR PR3 with Hed Jets and a TriRig front end and a stock Cervelo P3X buys you a nice chunk of tunnel time at A2. So, in the contest of:

P3X
vs.
PR3 + Hed Jets + TriRig + Tunnel Time

I can tell you which purchase decision will net you a faster bike split and for many people the time difference will not be insignificant.

Btw you can interchange a lot of bikes and components for my QR example. I mean... a Speed Concept frameset (cockpit included) is $3,300.

I paid $3300 for my P3C 2010 frameset, then built it up with hand picked parts & set up. $2800 would have been a nicer option for sure! It's nice not having anyone else own a bike exactly like yours. However, I'm seeing the VALUE in having the same OEM set up overall, if the spec'd parts are actually to my liking quality wise. I'm really like the bars on the Canyon Speedmax SLX or the 51 Speedshop bars. I have not looked too closely at the Cervelo bars as I'm not in the market for a bike until next year. By then, we *may* see a Shimano grouppo more similar to a bolt on version like the SRAM (and 12 speed).

Exactly. I point out how halo products are extremely common in marketing and what I get back is two people saying "maybe, but for not the product I like." lol. Yeah, and btw pricing stuff at $**.99 isn't a trick either to make the cost seem a lot lower than just a penny short of the higher number. I'm not making this up; these are known and proven tactics that work on everybody all day long.

People love comparing, but the #1 thing they hate is being wrong. They will talk circles justifying why they aren't and what is obvious and commonplace simply doesn't apply to them.

On the other hand, you objectively took products more closely priced to their legitimate costs and assembled them into a bike just as fast at half the $$$. Nice work!

Based on your assessment, Cervelo is “anchoring” the high end of their price point with the P5X/P3X so that when consumers look for the “middle choice” P3 disc they see $5,000 as the middle choice rather than... let’s say $3,500-4,000. Sound about right?

I could see that working with a high volume product like a road or a mountain bike but considering the volumes of TT bikes sold it seems wiser to just do what you have to do to keep/gain market share.... and high priced halo products is not the right strategy IMO.

In the MTB world the Trek Fuel EX 9.9 is a pretty good example of anchoring the high end of the price spectrum: $10,000 for 130/130 26lb trail bike with a fancy shock. Go down to the “9.8” gain about 1.5lbs of weight, lose the fancy shock, and lose $4,500 from the price. Go down to the “8” and you gain another couple of pounds and lose another $2,300 off the price. Three bikes, two sets of tooling, and one R&D investment (geometry, styling, rear shock, suspension tuning). The last time we had a similar setup in tri was with the Speed Concept 2.5/7/9 with the 7 being the middle choice. One R&D cost to develop the aerofoil shapes, two sets of tooling, three frames and price points all the way from $2,000 to $10,000.

Anyways, I’ve said my piece. Halo bikes are fine and the P3X is a good looking bike but Cervelo is going the wrong way if they want to keep their market share.

It's not the first time they have done that. Market rules. They only have to be the less expensive of the bunch.

When was the last time they had a price increase? That's just a 4.6%. Unless they do that every ~2-3 years, they are actually giving you a price drop in real inflation-adjusted dollars. NZ inflation has been around 1.5-2%

Maybe I missed it, but are the actual weight figures published, between P5X/P3X/P5D? Are we talking ounces or pounds here?

About 1.3lbs Delta between each it appears.

Only one is aerogeeks that publishes these for some reason.

P5D - 8.4kg/18.5lbs
P3X - 9.7 Inc flat kit(s), so 9.45kg/20.8lbs
P5X - 9.96kg/22lbs

P3x estimated based on flat kit appearing to include 2 tubes, 2 canisters etc. Poss the other kit also.

Have heard P5x is 10kg without flat kit and 10.4kg with flat kit filled similar to above P3x contents. This confirmed in P5x thread and also aerogeeks 10kg without flat kit.

That would put P3x at a 0.7kg ish lighter which sounds right as the spec sheet has all the ancillaries at near 0.4-0.5kg reduction plus frame/fork 250g ish.

based on that article, think we don't know for sure if the 9.72kg reported for the P3x actually included the flat kit, as it mentioned "maybe".

"We weighed a complete Ultegra Di2 build (the second one you will read about down below) including cages, storage boxes, and maybe a flat kit in at 9.72kg."


so if there was no flat kit included, we are looking at only a 0.24kg difference between the P5x and P3x.

But there also be a delta due to weighed P5x being eTap and P3X ultegra di2.

Halo effect does not care about volume or size of the market, its all about how do you implement the strategy. Halo effect is not about market share(in terms of units sold), its about Branding, pricing and stablish a comparative point of view that allow you to sell AND to benefit your brand(this is hard to quantify in numbers). Is it the best strategy for cervelo? is a good strategy? Hard to say for now.I think CErvelo should improve the p5x and use their competitive advantage(owned factories and all that that coem from the owner).P3x is a "lesson learned" ready to be aplied to the p5x

Yes I was extrapolating but doing so on probability.

Pics show a flat kit all be it not clear if in the one they weighed.

Weight savings of frame and accessories is 468g over P5x.

One being Ultegra (P3X) and the other probably Dura-Ace (P5X), probably there is more than 500g on the frame only ?

Based on the areogeeks article, there would be a total of 430g difference between a medium P5X and P3X (254g for frame only, plus the difference in handlebar, riser, seatpost and bento weights)

Key for me is that that weight is largely coming from the top of the bike. So contributes not just to being lighter, then would align with the handling improvements.

So looking at the various aero data charts released by Cervelo comparing the old (rim brake) P5 to the P5X, P5d and P3X - all in "Tri heavy / Ironman" setup - I've extrapolated the following drag averages:

P5: 0g drag
P3X: -4g
P5d: -17g
P5X: -31g

(Note there is no chart comparing the P5 to P3X, but one of them show the P3X to be +27g compared to the P5X, which is where I get the P3X at -4g from).

The total delta between the slowest (P5) and fastest (P5X) is roughly 1 min over an Ironman.

Based on this:

The P5 and P3X are within the margin of error the same aero-wise, but the P3X has a substantial weight disadvantage. The only reason to buy a P3X over the old P5 is if you really want disk brakes and the integrated storage options (which are very good considerations), but comes at a weight penalty of 1kg+.

The P5d is probably the best combination of aero, weight and stiffness disk brakes and storage - this would be my #1 choice.

P5X still rules the roost in aero, roughly 30s faster than the P5d (but at a substantial weight disadvantage) and 1 min over the P3X (but 430g heavier than P3X). Personally, I would actually probably still choose a P5X over the P3X if I could get one at a good price (which is now very likely!). And I think it still looks better than the P3X...

Indeed, and you can lose another >100g changing out the stock saddle, but I suppose that applies to both...

^^^ this is assuming you can't optimize your position on P5 (rim, P5-3 model) by replacing Aduro with other aeroba, but other than that, conclusions are pretty clear.

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Need more W/CdA.

Actually, I think it goes even further and assumes you make a concerted effort to de-optimize your P5 by taping 12 gels to it etc

My Question is the new P3X better than the P5X (2018 one with mechanic Brakes)?
What would you buy if you had the money?
Thanks

P3x
- approx 0.5kg lighter
- stiffer
- poss handles bit better
- better brakes (how much depends)
- cheaper new by 2k ish

P5x
- split bars for easier packing as standard (also fit p3x if wanting)
- poss better wheels depending on spec and opinion/preference
- new model comes with Biknd bag (p3x tbc)
- slightly better aero but not noticeable realistically

Basically it's down to personal preference.
P3x is the next version and improved tech, but p5x still has its pros.

Also worth considering if the biknd bag is coming with the p5x that you are looking at as mixed reports on if included with p3x and cervelo site suggests not.

I would lean towards p3x due to newer tech and lighter/stiffer with same benefits.
Not much cheaper when bag and poss split bars are added if needed though .

Completely agree.... seems silly to loose the typical P3 group of buyers

I am completely with you...

But I think the point is (and Slowman says as much in his article) is that this is not a new P3. It is a P5X v2.0, so it is actually aimed at the P5 / P5x buyer group.

The P3 buyers can still buy the P3 (or P2), albeit that those models are still rim brakes. So Cervelo has not alienated those buyers. At some point Cervelo will release a new P3 with disk brakes that will be at a discount to the PX line, for the typical P3 buyer...

Does anyone know what extension options Cervelo offer as standard for the P3x? Or is just the one type (30° from the looks of it) on the basis that they're standard 22.2mm diameter?

yes, just the 30deg, 22.2 dia. I have one in front of me (and 3 p5 discs)

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'to give anything less than the best is to sacrifice the gift'...Pre

Great, thanks for confirming.

Could it be currency fluctuation?

You mentioned the wheels but I would consider that more thoroughly.
The p3x comes with a 60 or 30 mm rear wheel. To me that‘s rather useles: either you have a disc rear wheel or an 80 mm if you get afraid in winds or if you go to Kona. I personally would never ride a shallower wheel in the rear.
In front ok: that‘s where the wind can get tricky.

And with p5x you can have the deeper rear wheels. (Or a frame set. )

Has anyone seen any reviews / ride reports aside from the 'first ride' style done at the launch event?

Also curious to read actual user reviews/feedback.

Still no long term reviews or any reports from rides outside the press launch?

Between this and the Shiv I feel I may aswell announce the launch of a new Tri bike that is 3kg, has 3.47% less drag at all yaw angles than either a P5x/d or a Shiv or Felt IA, has space for 7 bottles and a refillable on fly internal bladder, bars that allow an angle to bring the hands above my head, or to be down at the front hub, has both disc and rim brakes, has peddle, crank and hub powermeters, a 0x15 drivetrain operated by mobile phone only, with no shifters on the bike, not only tubeless, but you actually just ride on the rims that are now 48mm wide, and whilst no space for tools, each time you ride a local mechanic is dispatched on a scooter to ride beside you. I intend to form the company to design such a think next month, but I am taking orders now for what is clearly the best bike available* anywhere.

*claim excludes other bikes not available.

I read through all 6 pages of this thread, and I still can't figure out what anyone needs all this storage for unless you're doing Race Across America or something. I mean, you have a giant bento box for your food. And little tool/tube/co2 area under the downtube. What are you putting in the box above the crank? A book of your favorite inspirations quotes in case you need to take a dump mid-race? More food? IM has special needs.

I'd also like to hear how this bike handles and rides compared to something like a P5 disc (which doesn't have enough storage -- why can't that bike at least have a flat kit area that attaches to the back? Even short course athletes carry a flat kit.

Honestly Ive found that box above the crank is pretty useless on race day. There is no spring to hold the cover on, so if you try to open it mid ride its just going to fall off. On top of that for 70.3 and below...honestly it's extra storage you don't really need because at least I've found I can stash as much food as I need in the bento and I can carry my 3 bottles and not need to hit of aid stations for more fluid over 56 miles.

I typically keep it on for races even if its empty.

1. It's a pain in the ass to take on and off.
2. I feel like there was an engineering decision for it in terms of aerodynamics. Too lazy to go back and check that again at the moment.

I do use it for long training rides, typically I stash extra food in it or another tube. It nice for that so I don't have to stash a ton of crap in my jersey pockets.