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NZ Mosque Shooting
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What a sick fuck...

His guns were scrawled with the names of past mass killers and cities where the shootings occurred.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/...-heard-20-shots.html
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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I saw that. It's heartbreaking.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Whatever you do, donā€™t watch the video.

Biggest mistake Iā€™ve made in a long time.

Iā€™m going to take some sleeping pills now and go to bed.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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I don't intend to. I've seen enough killing in my lifetime.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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4 have been arrested. 1 is a woman. Nz police acted amazingly quickly. Thereā€™s footage of gunman getting arrested. Iā€™ve skim read the main shooterā€™s manifesto and seems like nz was chosen because it seemed like one of the least likely targets. He is Australian. He calls himself an ā€˜eco-fascistā€™.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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Also 40 dead and 48 injured.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Horrific, a very small community in the whole country, just 44k, and the fact its NZ.......... Unbelievable
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Whatever you do, donā€™t watch the video.

Biggest mistake Iā€™ve made in a long time.

Iā€™m going to take some sleeping pills now and go to bed.

This.
My curiosity got the better of me and i watched a bit, was fucking horrific.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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Two mosques. I guess they decided that after shooting one up they werenā€™t donā€™t.

4 sick fucks arrested.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
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There's no words for this.

Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?

How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?


Just stop.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?


Just stop.

Because you don't like the answers?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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You don't think this conversation is coming? You know it is.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?


Just stop.


Because you don't like the answers?


Nah, that's not how it works. If someone brings up gun restrictions after a shooting in the US the answer from you jackasses is always "Now's not the time..."

So it goes both ways.

Now is not the time. Next week isn't looking so good either. Make an appointment in April.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Last edited by: BLeP: Mar 15, 19 4:46
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?

Where did you get this totally erroneous idea?

New Zealand has the most permissive gun laws in the region.

It and the USA are the only two developed countries to not have universal gun registration. Semi automatic weapons are permitted in NZ.

There is likely a reason that an Australian terrorist traveled to NZ to carry out an attack using weaponry that is banned and in practice unobtainable in Australia, but relatively common over there.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
You don't think this conversation is coming? You know it is.

I always find it amazing that, after every mass shooting, everyone seems to complain about how quickly the political mud slinging begins, yet there is always some asshole just waiting to get the whole thing started.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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And tritimmy, try not to be an asshole for 5 minutes.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Last edited by: BLeP: Mar 15, 19 4:55
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Can I feel good abt myself if I don't watch the video?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?

Fuck off. Twat.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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WelshinPhilly wrote:
tritimmy wrote:
How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?


Fuck off. Twat.

Yes. Thanks for expressing how I feel about dumbasstimmy.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Whatever you do, donā€™t watch the video.

Biggest mistake Iā€™ve made in a long time.

Iā€™m going to take some sleeping pills now and go to bed.

I don't get why you would look? Besides the fact you know it was disturbing going in, that's what the bastards wanted, notoriety and publicity for their "cause."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Bone Idol] [ In reply to ]
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Bone Idol wrote:
tritimmy wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


Where did you get this totally erroneous idea?

New Zealand has the most permissive gun laws in the region.

It and the USA are the only two developed countries to not have universal gun registration. Semi automatic weapons are permitted in NZ.

There is likely a reason that an Australian terrorist traveled to NZ to carry out an attack using weaponry that is banned and in practice unobtainable in Australia, but relatively common over there.

My error then. I stand corrected. I thought (obviously wrong as I see) that NZ had the same restrictions that Australia has.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
windywave wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?


Just stop.


Because you don't like the answers?


Nah, that's not how it works. If someone brings up gun restrictions after a shooting in the US the answer from you jackasses is always "Now's not the time..."

So it goes both ways.

Now is not the time. Next week isn't looking so good either. Make an appointment in April.

You've got it wrong. It's not about the timing of the discussion. It's that guns dont kill people. People kill people.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
windywave wrote:
Sanuk wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?


Just stop.


Because you don't like the answers?


Nah, that's not how it works. If someone brings up gun restrictions after a shooting in the US the answer from you jackasses is always "Now's not the time..."

So it goes both ways.

Now is not the time. Next week isn't looking so good either. Make an appointment in April.

I was more replying about the second point. You doubt Trump gets lambasted somehow for this?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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I don't see how Trump gets "credit" for a shooting in NZ.

Feel free to prove me wrong LR.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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If you give him enough time to post something stupid on Twitter, he will be, yes. Otherwise, anti-immigration and anti-muslim sentiments are not new.
But I'm sure you can find a couple of far left folks who will blame Trump right now, just like there are far right assholes who'd blame whomever on the left.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
And tritimmy, try not to be an asshole for 5 minutes.

If you think I'm going to engage in the argument I am not.

I am merely attempting (maybe poorly) to project what is going to take place when the "media" wakes up.

I predict that there will be some opportunities for me to say, "See, I told you so" here in about 3, 2, 1, but someone else in here will do that for me I'm sure.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
If you give him enough time to post something stupid on Twitter, he will be, yes. Otherwise, anti-immigration and anti-muslim sentiments are not new.
But I'm sure you can find a couple of far left folks who will blame Trump right now, just like there are far right assholes who'd blame whomever on the left.

AOC. She is the root of all left evil.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
Bone Idol wrote:
tritimmy wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


Where did you get this totally erroneous idea?

New Zealand has the most permissive gun laws in the region.

It and the USA are the only two developed countries to not have universal gun registration. Semi automatic weapons are permitted in NZ.

There is likely a reason that an Australian terrorist traveled to NZ to carry out an attack using weaponry that is banned and in practice unobtainable in Australia, but relatively common over there.


My error then. I stand corrected. I thought (obviously wrong as I see) that NZ had the same restrictions that Australia has.


And seeing as you asked, someone already did bring up a connection to Donald Trump - and before the shooting even happened. TDS! TDS!

I'll let you guess who.
Last edited by: WelshinPhilly: Mar 15, 19 6:11
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Help me out, I am not seeing it in your posted article.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Help me out, I am not seeing it in your posted article.

URL corrected.. that's what I get for trying to shorten it.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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The shooter described himself as a "regular white man". I thought I was a regular white man. Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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WelshinPhilly wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Help me out, I am not seeing it in your posted article.


URL corrected.. that's what I get for trying to shorten it.

Don't worry, this is the media's fault. They posted what he wrote. Fucking liberals!

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
I don't see how Trump gets "credit" for a shooting in NZ.

Feel free to prove me wrong LR.

My opening expected bid is environment of hate and islamaphobia
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Francois wrote:
If you give him enough time to post something stupid on Twitter, he will be, yes. Otherwise, anti-immigration and anti-muslim sentiments are not new.
But I'm sure you can find a couple of far left folks who will blame Trump right now, just like there are far right assholes who'd blame whomever on the left.

AOC. She is the root of all left evil.

Her or a certain rep from Minnesota are my top two with a presidential candidate in third
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [ In reply to ]
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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I happened in christchurch which has about 350K people. I was wondering how you could have enough muslims in a town of 44K to have two mosques or even that many muslims at mosque in NZ. My town in Ontario has 42K people and we are probably on of the few places in the country that would have those numbers. No less tragic though.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [len] [ In reply to ]
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My parents lived in Christchurch for 15 years. I've run countless laps of that park. It's only 9 and 8 years since the city was nearly flattened by earthquakes. My family had moved by then but the aftershocks and logistics of living there in the aftermath wore many people out and they left. I have to imagine the city was just beginning to regain a sense of normalcy and safety and now this. What a body blow.



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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My bad maybe you were referring to Dunedin as where the gunman came from.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
You don't think this conversation is coming? You know it is.

Nobody came in here with that......YOU did. Grow up.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
If you give him enough time to post something stupid on Twitter, he will be, yes. Otherwise, anti-immigration and anti-muslim sentiments are not new.
But I'm sure you can find a couple of far left folks who will blame Trump right now, just like there are far right assholes who'd blame whomever on the left.

Thankfully, someone must have taken over his twitter account today because this is about as Presidential as I have ever seen Trump:


"My warmest sympathy and best wishes goes out to the people of New Zealand after the horrible massacre in the Mosques. 49 innocent people have so senselessly died, with so many more seriously injured. The U.S. stands by New Zealand for anything we can do. God bless all!"

I am sure he will devolve into political rants later, but for now...

And again, deepest sympathies to those in NZ. Too much hate everywhere in this world. Sometimes you wonder whether mankind deserves to survive.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
The shooter described himself as a "regular white man". I thought I was a regular white man. Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

The problem with crazy people is they don't know they're crazy.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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Also, whenever I hear someone describe themselves as a regular white man, I start singing the first verse of Dennis Leary's 'asshole' in my head.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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Iā€™ve been living a lie for 43 years.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Iā€™ve been living a lie for 43 years.

Youre bald and wear Costco jeans, right? That's half of the 'crazy white guy' starter kit. Slap a swastika tattoo on that chrome dome and get yourself an AR15 and some books on prepping.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Bone Idol] [ In reply to ]
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Fuck you and your facts.........pink

Turns out timmy does not know that Australia and NZ are not the same.......
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [len] [ In reply to ]
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I meant 44k Muslims in all of NZ
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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https://mobile.twitter.com/.../1106471346303754240

Worth watching for the comments on politicians
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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Balding. I still have some hairs.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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Even better, start rocking that skullet!

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Bone Idol] [ In reply to ]
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About 9 years ago, wife and I seriously considered a move to NZ. I was recruited by a head hunter looking for a US labor lawyer for a position dealing with US and foreign labor law. Christchurch would have been one of the locations. Around the same time, my partners approached me about leaving our then-current firm and forming our own. So, I decided to stay. But, I frequently have second thoughts because it looked like opportunity of a lifetime. Heartbreaking to see this happen and because of the job opportunity, it feels just a little bit closer to home than it might otherwise feel.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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I might not have enough left to pull this off.



How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Balding. I still have some hairs.

The ones in your ears don't really count.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Balding. I still have some hairs.

The ones in your ears don't really count.

I like to think of MPB more of a migration to locales further south rather then a net loss of hair.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
There's no words for this.

You should've stopped there mate. The 'somebody is going to bring it up' argument is really 'I want to bring it up but will put lipstick on it so no one will know my true intention.' Most people can see through that.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Andrewmc wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/theprojecttv/status/1106471346303754240


Worth watching for the comments on politicians


I thought this was pretty good.

https://twitter.com/.../1106471346303754240

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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I will admit that I have no sorrow when radical Islamists are killed while trying to kill innocents, or afterwards. But when something like this happens, I see only humans - men, women and children. I realize that these innocent people who were killed probably felt the same way when they see non-muslims killed by radical muslims. My heart breaks for them and their families.

I simply cannot grasp the mindset of someone who chooses to kill innocent people like this, especially women and children. I know there have always been people like this, and always will be - but I just can't understand how they justify it in their mind.

RIP to those who were killed.
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Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
As a side note, the stupidity of his manifesto becomes apparent when you consider this was in *New Zealand*, where the whites are immigrants.

New Zealand, Canada, USA, Australia...

Gots to hate those immagants.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Francois wrote:
If you give him enough time to post something stupid on Twitter, he will be, yes. Otherwise, anti-immigration and anti-muslim sentiments are not new.
But I'm sure you can find a couple of far left folks who will blame Trump right now, just like there are far right assholes who'd blame whomever on the left.


AOC. She is the root of all left evil.
-
well done.

https://thehill.com/...s-what-good-are-your
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Did she mention Trump or are you just associating Trump with "Isolation, dehumanizing stereotypes, hysterical conspiracy theories & hatred".

She is spot on btw, in Islam your fate is sealed when you die...prayers, donations, etc., on behalf of the dead do nothing to alter the fate of the dead on judgement day (unless you are their child). Rather than pray for the dead to make one's self feel they've done something, do something that will actually help.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
spudone wrote:
As a side note, the stupidity of his manifesto becomes apparent when you consider this was in *New Zealand*, where the whites are immigrants.


New Zealand, Canada, USA, Australia...

Gots to hate those immagants.

Wrong.

I'm not an immigrant to North America but I'm also not indigenous.

Also, I've just been watching CNN. According to them white supremacy is now mainstream.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [svennn] [ In reply to ]
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Congratulations on being an idiot.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Dapper Dan] [ In reply to ]
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Dapper Dan wrote:
Did she mention Trump or are you just associating Trump with "Isolation, dehumanizing stereotypes, hysterical conspiracy theories & hatred".

She is spot on btw, in Islam your fate is sealed when you die...prayers, donations, etc., on behalf of the dead do nothing to alter the fate of the dead on judgement day (unless you are their child). Rather than pray for the dead to make one's self feel they've done something, do something that will actually help.
-
AOC is just one of the first pols to use the event to criticize one of her political "enemies". That aspect is why I call Blep a winner in choosing her...even if in jest.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
There's no words for this.

Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?

How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?

Dumbest. Post. Ever.

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
As a side note, the stupidity of his manifesto becomes apparent when you consider this was in *New Zealand*, where the whites are immigrants.

Try everyone is an immigrant - even the inidivuals who can trace their lineage back to the original settlers from Hawaiki (no, that's not a typo).

Swim. Overbike. Walk.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Dapper Dan] [ In reply to ]
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   Dem sen. Blumenthal suggesting that Trump's words have consequences...
-
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...ealand_massacre.html
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Yay! Blame the victim defense! Woo!
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Bone Idol] [ In reply to ]
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Bone Idol wrote:
tritimmy wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


Where did you get this totally erroneous idea?

New Zealand has the most permissive gun laws in the region.

It and the USA are the only two developed countries to not have universal gun registration. Semi automatic weapons are permitted in NZ.

There is likely a reason that an Australian terrorist traveled to NZ to carry out an attack using weaponry that is banned and in practice unobtainable in Australia, but relatively common over there.

More on this:

"New Zealandā€™s gun control laws will be strengthened following the massacre of 49 people in Christchurch mosques, the countryā€™s prime minister has said.
Jacinda Ardern said at a press conference early on Saturday that she would consider banning semi-automatic firearms altogether after the alleged gunman behind the shootings obtained five guns legally.

ā€œI can tell you one thing right now: our gun laws will change,ā€ said Ardern. ā€œThere have been attempts to change our laws in 2005, 2012 and after an inquiry in 2017. Now is the time for change.ā€

Ardern said the alleged shooter was found to have used five guns that he appeared to legally own under a ā€œcategory Aā€ licence obtained in November 2017. He appeared to have begun buying guns the following month, she said.

The guns taken from the alleged perpetrator included two semi-automatic guns and two shotguns, the prime minister said. Answering questions from reporters, Ardern said all options to restrict gun violence would be considered.

New Zealand allows ownership of semi-automatic guns frequently described as ā€œassault riflesā€ that are banned in countries such as Australia and the UK. Guns can be bought online and anyone aged 16 with an entry-level licence can possess them."
https://www.news.com.au/


Much of the gun lobby's argument against previous attempts to tighten gun laws in NZ rested on the fact that they had not (yet) experienced this kind of massacre. That has been tragically swept away.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Bone Idol] [ In reply to ]
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Bone Idol wrote:
Bone Idol wrote:
tritimmy wrote:
Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?


Where did you get this totally erroneous idea?

New Zealand has the most permissive gun laws in the region.

It and the USA are the only two developed countries to not have universal gun registration. Semi automatic weapons are permitted in NZ.

There is likely a reason that an Australian terrorist traveled to NZ to carry out an attack using weaponry that is banned and in practice unobtainable in Australia, but relatively common over there.

More on this:

"New Zealandā€™s gun control laws will be strengthened following the massacre of 49 people in Christchurch mosques, the countryā€™s prime minister has said.
Jacinda Ardern said at a press conference early on Saturday that she would consider banning semi-automatic firearms altogether after the alleged gunman behind the shootings obtained five guns legally.

ā€œI can tell you one thing right now: our gun laws will change,ā€ said Ardern. ā€œThere have been attempts to change our laws in 2005, 2012 and after an inquiry in 2017. Now is the time for change.ā€

Ardern said the alleged shooter was found to have used five guns that he appeared to legally own under a ā€œcategory Aā€ licence obtained in November 2017. He appeared to have begun buying guns the following month, she said.

The guns taken from the alleged perpetrator included two semi-automatic guns and two shotguns, the prime minister said. Answering questions from reporters, Ardern said all options to restrict gun violence would be considered.

New Zealand allows ownership of semi-automatic guns frequently described as ā€œassault riflesā€ that are banned in countries such as Australia and the UK. Guns can be bought online and anyone aged 16 with an entry-level licence can possess them."
https://www.news.com.au/


Much of the gun lobby's argument against previous attempts to tighten gun laws in NZ rested on the fact that they had not (yet) experienced this kind of massacre. That has been tragically swept away.

But then how will New Zealanders defend themselves against a tyrannical government or have fun shooting their semi-automatic weapons in the woods? What about their rights, dammit?!
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
There's no words for this.

Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?

Thatā€™s Australia. Nz doesnā€™t have gun laws like Australia.

You can buy guns easy in NZ.

But tipping thatā€™s about to change.

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration

What a piece of shit.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Bretom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Bretom wrote:
My parents lived in Christchurch for 15 years. I've run countless laps of that park. It's only 9 and 8 years since the city was nearly flattened by earthquakes. My family had moved by then but the aftershocks and logistics of living there in the aftermath wore many people out and they left. I have to imagine the city was just beginning to regain a sense of normalcy and safety and now this. What a body blow.

I'm currently in Christchurch for several weeks as part of the significant other's teaching fellowship. Have run lots of laps of Hagley Park as well. We did the same gig in 2012 after the earthquakes, and had commented days ago how the "spirit" of the city (for lack of a better word) was much higher than back then...rebuilding, new buildings, an active CBD (which was cordoned off on our last trip), etc. And now this...

I've always considered this city (and country) one of my happy places with its outdoor lifestyle, landscapes, and welcoming people. And, honestly, it's been a good respite from the anger and hatred being stoked back home in the US. We are crushed that terrorism has found its way here and are heartbroken for the family and friends of the children, women, and men needlessly murdered yesterday.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dave_w wrote:
Dem sen. Blumenthal suggesting that Trump's words have consequences...
-
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...ealand_massacre.html

Blumenthal is fucken asshole
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WelshinPhilly wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration

What a piece of shit.

ā€œThe real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand streets today is the immigration program which allowed Muslim fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place.ā€

Wow. Woooowwww.

There's a time and place and way to voice concerns about the cultural impact of I'm migration. This definitely ain't it.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spntrxi wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Dem sen. Blumenthal suggesting that Trump's words have consequences...
-
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...ealand_massacre.html


Blumenthal is fucken asshole

I find it amusing American's have to make everything about them. Good or bad.

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spntrxi wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Dem sen. Blumenthal suggesting that Trump's words have consequences...
-
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...ealand_massacre.html


Blumenthal is fucken asshole

Ohh, spare me that horseshit. trump has gladly promoted Islamophobia and that immigrants are invaders.

https://twitter.com/.../1106676502844854272
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [PJC] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PJC wrote:
I find it amusing American's have to make everything about them. Good or bad.

We seem to export this shit, though. Though most of the names and guns on the equipment seem to be Euro-based white supremacy, the general style of this shooting seems to be rooted in the pathological look-at-me gun culture of U.S. mass shootings.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chaparral wrote:
spntrxi wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Dem sen. Blumenthal suggesting that Trump's words have consequences...
-
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...ealand_massacre.html


Blumenthal is fucken asshole


Ohh, spare me that horseshit. trump has gladly promoted Islamophobia and that immigrants are invaders.

https://twitter.com/.../1106676502844854272

so you blame trump then ? seriously.

This is no different that the Church shooting in South Carolina and the Jewish Temple shooting in Pitt. Well only the number of dead, but that really does not make it different. Get over your leftist self.... do you realize the Shooter in NZ thinks China is a great example of a country and hates capitalism... do you want me to stay he's more left then right.. there certainly could be that argument.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spntrxi wrote:
chaparral wrote:
spntrxi wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Dem sen. Blumenthal suggesting that Trump's words have consequences...
-
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...ealand_massacre.html


Blumenthal is fucken asshole


Ohh, spare me that horseshit. trump has gladly promoted Islamophobia and that immigrants are invaders.

https://twitter.com/.../1106676502844854272


so you blame trump then ? seriously.

This is no different that the Church shooting in South Carolina and the Jewish Temple shooting in Pitt. Well only the number of dead, but that really does not make it different. Get over your leftist self.... do you realize the Shooter in NZ thinks China is a great example of a country and hates capitalism... do you want me to stay he's more left then right.. there certainly could be that argument.


I know that he hated muslims. I think Islamophobia is bad and that we should make it unacceptable, not elect them president. Electing them president makes Islamophobia appear legitimate.

You honestly say trump's response was appropriate to those questions?

You do understand that he thinks China is a great country? It is not some leftist thing. It is because China does not believe in multiculturalism, he wants every country to be an ethnostate, dominated by one race.
Last edited by: chaparral: Mar 15, 19 18:14
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Every extreme of the ideological spectrum has its sickos. And, in my opinion, it's incumbent on the non-extreme members of that ideology to do some self-policing and restrain movement of its own cohort to those extremes. After 9/11 we rightly demanded that Muslims police their own in the U.S. The left wingers have a responsibility in preventing Antifa from going lethal and for reporting those advocating anti-police violence, rather than flirting with it when politically expedient. The right wing has to monitor its own who take anti-immigrant rhetoric into dangerous territory and fully divorce itself from white supremacy rather than flirting with it when politically expedient.

And everyone has to recognize and report pathological gun culture.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:

do you realize the Shooter in NZ thinks China is a great example of a country and hates capitalism... do you want me to stay he's more left then right.. there certainly could be that argument.


Yes, you could certainly make that argument, but you would then be a fucking moron. Read the manifesto (if you can stomach it), specifically why he rejects global capitalism, what he specifically admires about China, and why he wants to kill all communists. Then read about his admiration for British fascist, Oswald Mosley. Read before you post stupid shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Mosley#Fascism
Last edited by: oldandslow: Mar 15, 19 18:46
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
oldandslow wrote:
Quote:

do you realize the Shooter in NZ thinks China is a great example of a country and hates capitalism... do you want me to stay he's more left then right.. there certainly could be that argument.


Yes, you could certainly make that argument, but you would then be a fucking moron. Read the manifesto (if you can stomach it), specifically why he rejects global capitalism, what he specifically admires about China, and why he wants to kill all communists. Then read about his admiration for British fascist, Oswald Mosley. Read before you post stupid shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Mosley#Fascism


that's why I said one could..... and I feel the same way that ppl are arguing this is because of orange man... they are fucking morons.
Last edited by: spntrxi: Mar 15, 19 20:19
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spntrxi wrote:
chaparral wrote:
spntrxi wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Dem sen. Blumenthal suggesting that Trump's words have consequences...
-
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...ealand_massacre.html


Blumenthal is fucken asshole


Ohh, spare me that horseshit. trump has gladly promoted Islamophobia and that immigrants are invaders.

https://twitter.com/.../1106676502844854272

so you blame trump then ? seriously.

This is no different that the Church shooting in South Carolina and the Jewish Temple shooting in Pitt. Well only the number of dead, but that really does not make it different. Get over your leftist self.... do you realize the Shooter in NZ thinks China is a great example of a country and hates capitalism... do you want me to stay he's more left then right.. there certainly could be that argument.

Was Trump directly responsible? No.
Did Trump's anti-Muslim rhetoric indirectly contribute? Open for debate, but the shooter gave Trump credit for partly inspiring him. That is a fact.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Apparently everyone was wrong and Chelsea Clinton it to blame:

https://www.foxnews.com/...r-remarks-about-omar

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AutomaticJack wrote:
Apparently everyone was wrong and Chelsea Clinton it to blame:

https://www.foxnews.com/...r-remarks-about-omar

Ah, the classic left-wing circular firing squad.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
AutomaticJack wrote:
Apparently everyone was wrong and Chelsea Clinton it to blame:

https://www.foxnews.com/...r-remarks-about-omar

Ah, the classic left-wing circular firing squad.

The classic crazy far left wing circular firing squad. These idiots are not your normal left leaning folks.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
trail wrote:
AutomaticJack wrote:
Apparently everyone was wrong and Chelsea Clinton it to blame:

https://www.foxnews.com/...r-remarks-about-omar


Ah, the classic left-wing circular firing squad.


The classic crazy far left wing circular firing squad. These idiots are not your normal left leaning folks.

Yes, that is true. I meant it as implied, but worth pointing out explicitly, particularly in this thread.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spntrxi wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Dem sen. Blumenthal suggesting that Trump's words have consequences...
-
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...ealand_massacre.html


Blumenthal is fucken asshole

What the fuck is DICK Blumenthal, Connecticut's designated village idiot, talking about? Because this guy (Brenton Tarrant) published a typical mass murderer's manifesto (meaning, manic and loony) in which he described himself as an "ethno-nationalist eco-fascist," whatever the hell that is. He also expressed hatred for conservatism and said that Communist China is his ideal country.

Also, he said he was first a communist, then an anarchist, a libertarian and, finally, an eco-fascist and environmentalist who's bought into global warming/climate change in a big way. To me, the closest mass murderer analogy we have out there for him is Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber.

He also specifically noted that he'd chosen his firearms for the attack to incite an argument among Americans in hopes of leading the left to attempt to confiscate guns and thereby starting a civil war.

Here's the mosque mass murderer:

"Why focus on immigration and birth rates when climate change is such a huge issue?

Because they are the same issue, the environment is being destroyed by over population, we Europeans are one of the groups that are not over populating the world. The invaders are the ones over populating the world. Kill the invaders, kill the overpopulation and by so doing save the environment."


To me, trying to pore over the ravings of lunatics to divine some sort of coherent ideological meaning is absolutely useless. Kind of like examining chicken entrails to ascertain future stock market movement.

This fucker was nobody's boy, either on the right or the left. He was a psycho acting out his lunacy, and probably because he's got a tiny penis.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
that last part....is that what's wrong with orange man?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tyrod1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tyrod1 wrote:
that last part....is that what's wrong with orange man?

I don't care about that fucker, either.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
tyrod1 wrote:
that last part....is that what's wrong with orange man?

I don't care about that fucker, either.

The mosque shooter did.

Your post didn't mention that, though.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Francois] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Francois wrote:
But I'm sure you can find a couple of far left folks who will blame Trump right now, just like there are far right assholes who'd blame whomever on the left.

Exhibit A.: ā€œRUSH LIMBAUGH CLAIMS NEW ZEALAND MOSQUE SHOOTINGS WERE FALSE FLAG OPERATION, OFFERS NO EVIDENCEā€

https://www.newsweek.com/...s-false-flag-1365260
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WelshinPhilly wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
tyrod1 wrote:
that last part....is that what's wrong with orange man?


I don't care about that fucker, either.


The mosque shooter did.

Your post didn't mention that, though.

I don't give a shit what that asshole in NZ thought or didn't think. Because he's a fucking lunatic. And like I said in my post, why are we even trying to suss out the ravings of a lunatic? There's no point in engaging in such futility. Because he's a lunatic. He also believed big time in global warming/climate change and thought the Muslim hordes were helping contribute to it and he was just doing his part to knock down their population to help avoid catastrophic climate change. So which part is crazier? Answer; IT'S ALL CRAZY.

But all you folks have your preferred political points to push, same as always, when we talk about these episodes of lunacy.

Me, I'm blaming fluoridated water. Makes just as much sense as anything else when it comes to this freak. And too bad those wimp asses in New Zealand aren't going to execute this guy. Because he's going to be a big man in the joint and a celebrity among certain white supremacist circles now, and women all over the world are probably going to mail him their panties and send him marriage proposals, right?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Two mosques were shot up.

Who shot up the other one?

What happened at the other one? How did it end?

2 others were arrested. Who are they?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
WelshinPhilly wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
tyrod1 wrote:
that last part....is that what's wrong with orange man?


I don't care about that fucker, either.


The mosque shooter did.

Your post didn't mention that, though.

I don't give a shit what that asshole in NZ thought or didn't think. Because he's a fucking lunatic. And like I said in my post, why are we even trying to suss out the ravings of a lunatic? There's no point in engaging in such futility. Because he's a lunatic. He also believed big time in global warming/climate change and thought the Muslim hordes were helping contribute to it and he was just doing his part to knock down their population to help avoid catastrophic climate change. So which part is crazier? Answer; IT'S ALL CRAZY.

But all you folks have your preferred political points to push, same as always, when we talk about these episodes of lunacy.

Me, I'm blaming fluoridated water. Makes just as much sense as anything else when it comes to this freak. And too bad those wimp asses in New Zealand aren't going to execute this guy. Because he's going to be a big man in the joint and a celebrity among certain white supremacist circles now, and women all over the world are probably going to mail him their panties and send him marriage proposals, right?

But what pushes those with crazy ideas to crazy acts? What makes their accomplices be willing to be complicit in such a crime? He did not act alone, and planned the attack carefully.

A newspaper editor in AL recently called for the KKK to night ride again, and to clean out D.C. Asked to elaborate what he meant by "cleaning up D.C.," he said "We'll get the hemp ropes out, loop them over a tall limb and hang all of them."

See:
https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/...e-sutton/2910436002/

Don't tell me Trump's hateful anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant rhetoric hasn't enabled this kind of hate speech, and that this rise of white nationalism is irrelevant to these hate crimes.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duffy wrote:
Two mosques were shot up.

Who shot up the other one?

What happened at the other one? How did it end?

2 others were arrested. Who are they?


I posted something wrong, so trying again. Appears the same dude drove to the 2nd mosque, and killed 7 more there. But turned off his live feed on the way.

Not clear why the other people were arrested, but they might have been taken as a precaution. One may have been a citizen with a firearm who attempted to assist police. (source)

Edit: And apparently the shooter was disarmed, and ran away. That's eventually going to be a good story. Because someone's a fucking badass.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 16, 19 15:11
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kay Serrar wrote:
Don't tell me Trump's hateful anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant rhetoric hasn't enabled this kind of hate speech, and that this rise of white nationalism is irrelevant to these hate crimes.

Some day there's some chance someone self-identifying as Antifa might kill someone (they haven't yet afaik, so are hundreds behind white supremacists in recent body count), and I'm sure when that happens BK will be sure to point out it was just a lone nutjob and that the antifa and left-wing anti-fascists will have had nothing to do with it.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

Don't tell me Trump's hateful anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant rhetoric hasn't enabled this kind of hate speech, and that this rise of white nationalism is irrelevant to these hate crimes.


Some day there's some chance someone self-identifying as Antifa might kill someone (they haven't yet afaik, so are hundreds behind white supremacists in recent body count), and I'm sure when that happens BK will be sure to point out it was just a lone nutjob and that the antifa and left-wing anti-fascists will have had nothing to do with it.

No, you don't get it. If the person is white and has a manifesto that sounds like a trump campaign speech, then they are a nutjob. If not they are probably some terrorist and should ban all muslims from entering the country to be safe.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chaparral wrote:
trail wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

Don't tell me Trump's hateful anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant rhetoric hasn't enabled this kind of hate speech, and that this rise of white nationalism is irrelevant to these hate crimes.


Some day there's some chance someone self-identifying as Antifa might kill someone (they haven't yet afaik, so are hundreds behind white supremacists in recent body count), and I'm sure when that happens BK will be sure to point out it was just a lone nutjob and that the antifa and left-wing anti-fascists will have had nothing to do with it.


No, you don't get it. If the person is white and has a manifesto that sounds like a trump campaign speech, then they are a nutjob. If not they are probably some terrorist and should ban all muslims from entering the country to be safe.

Not necessarily aimed at you chaparral, your post was just the last one.

Am I the only one who finds it more than a bit unseemly that we are arguing whether or not this lunatic was a left wing or right wing nutjob? What are we trying to prove here? That your tribe is somehow better than the other because some whacko decided to twist someone's words into motivation for a mass killing? Is that what we've become?

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Am I the only one who finds it more than a bit unseemly that we are arguing whether or not this lunatic was a left wing or right wing nutjob? What are we trying to prove here? That your tribe is somehow better than the other because some whacko decided to twist someone's words into motivation for a mass killing? Is that what we've become?

If you want to solve a problem, it helps to understand what is causing it. I think that can be done reasonably and without tribalism, but probably not by several people posting in this thread.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spot wrote:
chaparral wrote:
trail wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

Don't tell me Trump's hateful anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant rhetoric hasn't enabled this kind of hate speech, and that this rise of white nationalism is irrelevant to these hate crimes.


Some day there's some chance someone self-identifying as Antifa might kill someone (they haven't yet afaik, so are hundreds behind white supremacists in recent body count), and I'm sure when that happens BK will be sure to point out it was just a lone nutjob and that the antifa and left-wing anti-fascists will have had nothing to do with it.


No, you don't get it. If the person is white and has a manifesto that sounds like a trump campaign speech, then they are a nutjob. If not they are probably some terrorist and should ban all muslims from entering the country to be safe.


Not necessarily aimed at you chaparral, your post was just the last one.

Am I the only one who finds it more than a bit unseemly that we are arguing whether or not this lunatic was a left wing or right wing nutjob? What are we trying to prove here? That your tribe is somehow better than the other because some whacko decided to twist someone's words into motivation for a mass killing? Is that what we've become?

We are not trying some tribe is better than another, this is about stopping the next act. The fact is that there are people that promote this sort of hate. Things like Islamophobia or anti-immigrant hate should be seen as bad things. When they are not seen as bad things and promoted by important people, that makes them more acceptable and people will act on these ideas. These ideas don't just appear from a vacuum, they come from the speech of others. They see all sorts of people that agree with these ideas, which makes them more confident that they are correct. These people just don't one day go, "I am going to go and kill a bunch of Muslims." We are going to find out this was at least a year in the making where they were radicalized, they were not someone that was guaranteed to be violent, or else they would have acted out already. They had a seed of this in them and these communities help that seed grow.

Do you think that a those that performed the 9/11 attack were going to slam planes into skycrapers anyway and we should just ignore their ideology? We should ignore all the people that radicalize muslims? These right wing terrorists follow the same path the Islamic terrorists do, they are not just nut jobs and dismissing them as such just ignores the root of the problem.

So should we just ignore the people that spread the hate and make it more acceptable? Do you honestly think that is the best way to prevent a future attack? This sort of hate should just not be acceptable.

Is it too much to ask people to not suggest that we should get rid of all Muslims? That does not seem like too much to ask.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Am I the only one who finds it more than a bit unseemly that we are arguing whether or not this lunatic was a left wing or right wing nutjob? What are we trying to prove here? That your tribe is somehow better than the other because some whacko decided to twist someone's words into motivation for a mass killing? Is that what we've become?


Yes. The killings don't matter, the tribe is all.

Imagine if your family member was one of the person's killed and you hear this kind of crap going on after a mass murder.

Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Two mosques were shot up.

Who shot up the other one?
What happened at the other one? How did it end?
2 others were arrested. Who are they?


I posted something wrong, so trying again. Appears the same dude drove to the 2nd mosque, and killed 7 more there. But turned off his live feed on the way.
Not clear why the other people were arrested, but they might have been taken as a precaution. One may have been a citizen with a firearm who attempted to assist police. (source)
Edit: And apparently the shooter was disarmed, and ran away. That's eventually going to be a good story. Because someone's a fucking badass.


Badass
Mr Aziz said as he ran outside screaming, he was hoping to distract the attacker.
He said the gunman ran back to his car to get another gun, and Mr Aziz hurled the credit card machine at him.
The gunman returned and fired. Mr Aziz said he ran, weaving through cars parked in the driveway, which prevented the gunman from getting a clean shot.
Then Mr Aziz spotted a gun that had been discarded by the attacker and picked it up, pointed it and squeezed the trigger. It was empty.
He said the gunman ran back to the car for a second time, likely to grab yet another weapon.
"He gets into his car and I just got the gun and threw it on his window like an arrow and blasted his window," he said.
The windshield shattered, Mr Aziz said.
"That's why he got scared."
He said the gunman was cursing at him and yelled that he was going to kill them all.
But he drove away and Mr Aziz said he chased the car down the street to a red light, before it made a U-turn and sped away.
https://www.abc.net.au/...-abdul-aziz/10908992
Quote Reply
Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kid hit first.

Don;t be surprised when you get hit back.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Ironnerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dayyum. He screamed "Come here!" at the shooter and ran at him while unarmed (according to the article).

Massive, massive balls. He had four sons in there. Genuine hero. Do not threaten this man's sons.



Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chaparral wrote:
spot wrote:
chaparral wrote:
trail wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

Don't tell me Trump's hateful anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant rhetoric hasn't enabled this kind of hate speech, and that this rise of white nationalism is irrelevant to these hate crimes.


Some day there's some chance someone self-identifying as Antifa might kill someone (they haven't yet afaik, so are hundreds behind white supremacists in recent body count), and I'm sure when that happens BK will be sure to point out it was just a lone nutjob and that the antifa and left-wing anti-fascists will have had nothing to do with it.


No, you don't get it. If the person is white and has a manifesto that sounds like a trump campaign speech, then they are a nutjob. If not they are probably some terrorist and should ban all muslims from entering the country to be safe.


Not necessarily aimed at you chaparral, your post was just the last one.

Am I the only one who finds it more than a bit unseemly that we are arguing whether or not this lunatic was a left wing or right wing nutjob? What are we trying to prove here? That your tribe is somehow better than the other because some whacko decided to twist someone's words into motivation for a mass killing? Is that what we've become?

We are not trying some tribe is better than another, this is about stopping the next act. The fact is that there are people that promote this sort of hate. Things like Islamophobia or anti-immigrant hate should be seen as bad things. When they are not seen as bad things and promoted by important people, that makes them more acceptable and people will act on these ideas. These ideas don't just appear from a vacuum, they come from the speech of others. They see all sorts of people that agree with these ideas, which makes them more confident that they are correct. These people just don't one day go, "I am going to go and kill a bunch of Muslims." We are going to find out this was at least a year in the making where they were radicalized, they were not someone that was guaranteed to be violent, or else they would have acted out already. They had a seed of this in them and these communities help that seed grow.

Do you think that a those that performed the 9/11 attack were going to slam planes into skycrapers anyway and we should just ignore their ideology? We should ignore all the people that radicalize muslims? These right wing terrorists follow the same path the Islamic terrorists do, they are not just nut jobs and dismissing them as such just ignores the root of the problem.

So should we just ignore the people that spread the hate and make it more acceptable? Do you honestly think that is the best way to prevent a future attack? This sort of hate should just not be acceptable.

Is it too much to ask people to not suggest that we should get rid of all Muslims? That does not seem like too much to ask.

So, just to make sure Iā€™m tracking with what youā€™re saying, Trumpsā€™ words are essentially the same as Al Qaedaā€™s? Iā€™m not even remotely saying that I agree with Trumpā€™s stance on Muslims and immigration, but to equate what he has said with Islamic terrorism is pure hyperbole on your part.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Two mosques were shot up.

Who shot up the other one?

What happened at the other one? How did it end?

2 others were arrested. Who are they?

Same person shot up both.

No clue who the others who were arrested are. First I heard 3 men and a woman. No other names.

But this whole thing is a false flag. Lefty gone nuts. Rush told me so. So itā€™s so.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Two mosques were shot up.

Who shot up the other one?

What happened at the other one? How did it end?

2 others were arrested. Who are they?

Same person shot up both.

No clue who the others who were arrested are. First I heard 3 men and a woman. No other names.

But this whole thing is a false flag. Lefty gone nuts. Rush told me so. So itā€™s so.

Iā€™m going way out on a limb here (pink) and guess that whatever Rush said has been totally misrepresented.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Kid hit first.

Don;t be surprised when you get hit back.

OK a) it was an egg, not a punch, and b) as a politician that dude is pretty much done.

Edit: that said, maybe the video belonged in the "eggs are bad for you again" thread :D
Last edited by: spudone: Mar 16, 19 18:16
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spot] [ In reply to ]
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spot wrote:
chaparral wrote:
spot wrote:
chaparral wrote:
trail wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

Don't tell me Trump's hateful anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant rhetoric hasn't enabled this kind of hate speech, and that this rise of white nationalism is irrelevant to these hate crimes.


Some day there's some chance someone self-identifying as Antifa might kill someone (they haven't yet afaik, so are hundreds behind white supremacists in recent body count), and I'm sure when that happens BK will be sure to point out it was just a lone nutjob and that the antifa and left-wing anti-fascists will have had nothing to do with it.


No, you don't get it. If the person is white and has a manifesto that sounds like a trump campaign speech, then they are a nutjob. If not they are probably some terrorist and should ban all muslims from entering the country to be safe.


Not necessarily aimed at you chaparral, your post was just the last one.

Am I the only one who finds it more than a bit unseemly that we are arguing whether or not this lunatic was a left wing or right wing nutjob? What are we trying to prove here? That your tribe is somehow better than the other because some whacko decided to twist someone's words into motivation for a mass killing? Is that what we've become?


We are not trying some tribe is better than another, this is about stopping the next act. The fact is that there are people that promote this sort of hate. Things like Islamophobia or anti-immigrant hate should be seen as bad things. When they are not seen as bad things and promoted by important people, that makes them more acceptable and people will act on these ideas. These ideas don't just appear from a vacuum, they come from the speech of others. They see all sorts of people that agree with these ideas, which makes them more confident that they are correct. These people just don't one day go, "I am going to go and kill a bunch of Muslims." We are going to find out this was at least a year in the making where they were radicalized, they were not someone that was guaranteed to be violent, or else they would have acted out already. They had a seed of this in them and these communities help that seed grow.

Do you think that a those that performed the 9/11 attack were going to slam planes into skycrapers anyway and we should just ignore their ideology? We should ignore all the people that radicalize muslims? These right wing terrorists follow the same path the Islamic terrorists do, they are not just nut jobs and dismissing them as such just ignores the root of the problem.

So should we just ignore the people that spread the hate and make it more acceptable? Do you honestly think that is the best way to prevent a future attack? This sort of hate should just not be acceptable.

Is it too much to ask people to not suggest that we should get rid of all Muslims? That does not seem like too much to ask.


So, just to make sure Iā€™m tracking with what youā€™re saying, Trumpsā€™ words are essentially the same as Al Qaedaā€™s? Iā€™m not even remotely saying that I agree with Trumpā€™s stance on Muslims and immigration, but to equate what he has said with Islamic terrorism is pure hyperbole on your part.

There is a bit of nuance that you are missing. I never said trump was like Al Qaeda. In radicalization, Al Qaeda was the final step, but there were lots of steps on that journey for someone that joins. trump is like one the first steps, he is like an Imam that pushes an anti-western view and does not criticize Al Qaeda. It takes many steps to go from a disaffected youth to being a suicide bomber. trump is like one of those first steps and allows these sorts of views to flourish. To radicalize you need these sorts of groups and trump allows these groups to flourish, because he gives them legitimacy.

Do you honestly think that the president of the united states spouting these views does not mean more people hear them?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spudone wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Kid hit first.

Don;t be surprised when you get hit back.

OK a) it was an egg, not a punch, and b) as a politician that dude is pretty much done.

Edit: that said, maybe the video belonged in the "eggs are bad for you again" thread :D

Well, the propaganda machine has already started....



Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spudone wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Kid hit first.

Don;t be surprised when you get hit back.

OK a) it was an egg, not a punch, and b) as a politician that dude is pretty much done.

Edit: that said, maybe the video belonged in the "eggs are bad for you again" thread :D

You're joking, right? It's pretty pathetic that we live in a world where that little shit thinks that is ok and knows he will face minor repercussions. Kid should have gotten his ass kicked.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:

You're joking, right? It's pretty pathetic that we live in a world where that little shit thinks that is ok and knows he will face minor repercussions. Kid should have gotten his ass kicked.

The kid should have been escorted out and dealt with appropriately. For the adult in the room to escalate the violence shows a stunning lack of maturity.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Thom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thom wrote:
JSA wrote:


You're joking, right? It's pretty pathetic that we live in a world where that little shit thinks that is ok and knows he will face minor repercussions. Kid should have gotten his ass kicked.


The kid should have been escorted out and dealt with appropriately. For the adult in the room to escalate the violence shows a stunning lack of maturity.

I would love to see how you would have reacted.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duffy wrote:


Iā€™m going way out on a limb here (pink) and guess that whatever Rush said has been totally misrepresented.


It looks like he was just mislead by his producer.

"There is an ongoing theory ā€” [producer Bo] Snerdley, correct me if Iā€™m wrong about this ā€” thereā€™s an ongoing theory that the shooter himself may in fact be a leftist who writes the manifesto and then goes out and performs the deed purposely to smear his political enemies, knowing heā€™s gonna get shot in the process."
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:

I would love to see how you would have reacted.

There is zero chance I would have punched him, I've never punched anyone in my life. Even if I did, it wouldn't make it right. "Minor repercussions" are what would be appropriate for cracking an egg on someone, not an ass kicking.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Thom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thom wrote:
JSA wrote:


I would love to see how you would have reacted.


There is zero chance I would have punched him, I've never punched anyone in my life. Even if I did, it wouldn't make it right. "Minor repercussions" are what would be appropriate for cracking an egg on someone, not an ass kicking.

I think you are full of shit.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP is my timeout over?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Thom wrote:
JSA wrote:


I would love to see how you would have reacted.


There is zero chance I would have punched him, I've never punched anyone in my life. Even if I did, it wouldn't make it right. "Minor repercussions" are what would be appropriate for cracking an egg on someone, not an ass kicking.


I think you are full of shit.

in today's pansy-assed world i dont doubt he's telling the truth.
times have changed.



ĪœĪŸĪ›Ī©Ī-Ī›Ī‘Ī’Ī•
we're doomed
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:

I think you are full of shit.

Please tell me the story about the last time you punched someone in the face for a minor offense like cracking an egg on your head.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Thom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thom wrote:
JSA wrote:


I think you are full of shit.


Please tell me the story about the last time you punched someone in the face for a minor offense like cracking an egg on your head.

No one has ever cracked an egg on my head. But, I am fairly certain you are just another guy who thinks he knows how he would react in any situation, no matter how quickly it happened, but, in reality, has no clue.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [axlsix3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hello axlsix3 and All,

Anybody know Brenton's dad, Rodney Tarrant, or race with him at Kona in 1991?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...visiting-north-korea

Excerpts:

Accused New Zealand mosque shooter Brenton Tarrant, one of four suspects in custody in connection to the attack, is a personal trainer from Australia who visited North Korea, where he was photographed in a tour group visiting the Samjiyon Grand Monument.

Tarrant, 28, is the son of parents who divorced when he was young. His father, who died in 2010 at age 49, was a garbage man who became a competitive triathlete who represented Australia.

=============================
The obituary stated that in 1991, the Tarrant family travelled to Hawaii so Rodney Tarrant could fulfill his dream of finishing the Hawaiian Iron Man triathlon. "Rodney finished 334th out of 1400 competitors for the event that required competitors to complete a 3.8km swim, 180.2 km cycle and a 42.2 km run. In 1995 Rodney was selected in the Australian team to compete at the Japan Strongman Triathalon Championships where he finished 58th in a field of 1300."

=========================================
Tarrant reportedly authored a 74-page document called "The Great Replacement,ā€ where he reportedly claimed that he viewed Trump as a "symbol of renewed white identity."

"Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump?" he wrote. "As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure. As a policy maker and leader? Dear god no.ā€

In particular, the author said he was impacted by Turning Point USA's Candace Owens, a 29-year-old African-American political activist.

"[T]he person that has influenced me above all was Candace Owens. Each time she spoke I was stunned by her insights and her own views helped push me further and further into the belief of violence overmeekness. Though I will have to disavow some of her beliefs, thee xtreme actions she calls for are too much, even for my tastes," the document says.

In response, Owens tweeted that she threatened the media it should ā€œlawyer the f*ck upā€ if she is blamed for inspiring the shooting.

=============================================

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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If someone smacked in the back of the head with an egg, I would definitely punch them.
Maybe even if it was wife, mother or children.
Natural instinct for me is that if Iā€™m surprised and feel Iā€™m being attacked- I throw a punch.

And Iā€™m no ā€œtough guyā€. But Iā€™ve been in a handful of fist fights. (None lately. And I hope never again).
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [timboricki] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's amazing that the conversation is about the kid rather than Annings language

The real cause of the bloodshed on New Zealand streets is the immigration program which allowed Muslim fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place. While Muslims may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators.

Just because the followers of this savage belief were not the killers in this instance does not make them blameless



Let's ponder his words for a moment.

I do not think that Annings right to say really offensive stupid fucking things the day men women and kids are killed should be restricted, but I find it completely astonishing the bandwidth given to the egging and not the cause.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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The kid should have been escorted out and dealt with appropriately.

I agree if you mean "should have had his ass kicked right on the spot" as appropriate.


To say he is "just a kid' is ridiculous. He picked up his phone so that he could take a selfie while hitting the Senator on the head with an egg. He wanted attention and playing the "I'm a victim" mentality is getting tiring. I'd love to have seen the Senator turn around and beat the crap out of him.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Thom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thom wrote:
JSA wrote:


I would love to see how you would have reacted.


There is zero chance I would have punched him, I've never punched anyone in my life. Even if I did, it wouldn't make it right. "Minor repercussions" are what would be appropriate for cracking an egg on someone, not an ass kicking.

I'm with you. I can't imagine how in similar circumstances I would think it was OK to punch a child in the face.
A few tough guys here disagree, and that's not very surprising.
Thankfully, in Oz, we can have a reasonable degree of faith in cops to do their job. They won't even need to shoot anyone to do so.
They have released the kid without charge. I'm comfortable that was the correct decision.
Anning remains under investigation. He may be charged, maybe not. I'm also comfortable that they will do their job in relation to his culpability.
I do note reports that Anning was confronted yesterday by an unknown individual who stated, inter alia, ā€œYouā€™re a senator of Australia, youā€™re a fucking shitcunt.ā€ fucking shitcunt

Bravo sir. Well said. Anning is a shitcunt, of the first degree. Whether his shitcuntery in this instance is provably criminal remains to be seen, but it is one example of a deplorably consistent pattern. Getting egged by an over-enthusiastic minor is the least of what he deserves.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrewmc wrote:
I think it's amazing that the conversation is about the kid rather than Annings language

The real cause of the bloodshed on New Zealand streets is the immigration program which allowed Muslim fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place. While Muslims may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators.

Just because the followers of this savage belief were not the killers in this instance does not make them blameless



Let's ponder his words for a moment.

I do not think that Annings right to say really offensive stupid fucking things the day men women and kids are killed should be restricted, but I find it completely astonishing the bandwidth given to the egging and not the cause.


absolutely. anning would love for the conversation to be shifted to the egging.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Bone Idol] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with you. I can't imagine how in similar circumstances I would think it was OK to punch a child in the face.

A few tough guys here disagree, and that's not very surprising.



Well, there are 2 things I support.

The first is freedom of speech which means that right wing Senator has the right to express his views even if people don't agree.

The second is civil discourse which means you can debate different ideas but no need to turn to violence.

This "child" is not really a child and likely spent more time getting his camera ready for his selfie for self promotion and less time trying to make a statement. He's another in a long and growing line of people abandoning normal civil discourse so he can get on t.v and share videos with his friends.

Since you think the poor child is the victim, I assume you agree with at least one of those ideas.

Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
BLeP is my timeout over?

Youā€™re a big boy, you tell me. Are you finished being an asshole?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chaparral wrote:
trail wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

Don't tell me Trump's hateful anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant rhetoric hasn't enabled this kind of hate speech, and that this rise of white nationalism is irrelevant to these hate crimes.


Some day there's some chance someone self-identifying as Antifa might kill someone (they haven't yet afaik, so are hundreds behind white supremacists in recent body count), and I'm sure when that happens BK will be sure to point out it was just a lone nutjob and that the antifa and left-wing anti-fascists will have had nothing to do with it.


No, you don't get it. If the person is white and has a manifesto that sounds like a trump campaign speech, then they are a nutjob. If not they are probably some terrorist and should ban all muslims from entering the country to be safe.

You guys can believe whatever it is you want to believe. One, because it's your right. Two, because I don't give a shit. You want to think that dumbass in the White House had anything to do with this fucker going off the rez and waxing a bunch of peaceful folks in their house of worship, that's fine with me. I'm just pointing out that it looks likes he's a fucking whackadoo who's trying to set off some kind of civil war between "white Europeans" (he includes himself in that category) and all the mud people, which is my term for what he believes non-whites probably are. Call me Mud Person Number One, and proudly so.

Really, did any of you even read his rantings and ravings on that manifesto of his before you-all opined about this 'tard from the heights of your collective brilliance? Doesn't seem that way to me.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:

You guys can believe whatever it is you want to believe. One, because it's your right. Two, because I don't give a shit. You want to think that dumbass in the White House had anything to do with this fucker going off the rez and waxing a bunch of peaceful folks in their house of worship, that's fine with me. I'm just pointing out that it looks likes he's a fucking whackadoo who's trying to set off some kind of civil war between "white Europeans" (he includes himself in that category) and all the mud people, which is my term for what he believes non-whites probably are. Call me Mud Person Number One, and proudly so.

Really, did any of you even read his rantings and ravings on that manifesto of his before you-all opined about this 'tard from the heights of your collective brilliance? Doesn't seem that way to me.

Fully understand your stated position on President Trump's influence on past events of race, culture and religious identity hatred, but am curious as to your position on the following:

Moving forward from our current fractured condition, would you also believe that any utterance from President would or could help heal the divide between "White Europeans" and the "mud people" beyond today's reality, or is he absolutely impotent of leadership in this regard.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:

The second is civil discourse which means you can debate different ideas but no need to turn to violence.


I don't disagree with you on the larger point, but I wouldn't call the Senator's statement "civil discourse" just because it was delivered "politely." The discourse was incendiary and disgusting, devaluing the human life of a segment of the population, many of whom had just been slaughtered. The statement also appeared to be just as media savvy as the kid. He was trolling, intentionally provoking the emotional response he wanted. Let's not pretend he was the "adult" just because he has a patina of good manners.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 17, 19 8:21
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Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Let's not pretend he was the "adult" just because he has a patina of good manners.



Trust me, I have no love for right wing nutcases that spew hatred. There's a lot of people who seem to be opposed to the Senator's hateful words but seem okay with that young punk hitting him in the head with an egg.

I don't like either actions but if we are going to allow free speech, people can't get a pass because they're young or a vocal minority or someone who feels outraged on that day or a kid who wants to upload videos to social media.

Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
Let's not pretend he was the "adult" just because he has a patina of good manners.



Trust me, I have no love for right wing nutcases that spew hatred. There's a lot of people who seem to be opposed to the Senator's hateful words but seem okay with that young punk hitting him in the head with an egg.

I don't like either actions but if we are going to allow free speech, people can't get a pass because they're young or a vocal minority or someone who feels outraged on that day or a kid who wants to upload videos to social media.

Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just making the small point to not use the term "civil discourse" in any part of this particular episode. None of it was. (And I'm not making the claim that either side is therefore justified)
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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There is a reason why people say "words matter" - especially someone given a platform such as the president. There will always be crazy people in the world...people on the fringe, people willing to go to the extreme. It is a COMPLETELY LOGICAL CONCLUSION that if you wind these toy soldiers up, they will march into battle. You don't have to be very smart to realize this...you just imply that someone ought to get violent against CNN reporters in your rally, and wow, who could have predicted it? Someone is attacking a reporter! You shout at a crowd about how Mexicans are invading the country, next thing you know Bubba is down in Arizona walking around the border "exercising his right to carry" his AR15. Jews, blacks, gays, whatever, it isn't hard to rally these guys to do your dirty work. People have been doing it for centuries.

Our dipshit president is absolutely culpable in this, as are people who echo his hate every chance they get. As are people who spread or listen to the message of the killer. This wasn't about killing Muslims, it was about having his voice heard. Why the hell would I read his crap?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
Quote:
Really, did any of you even read his rantings and ravings on that manifesto of his before you-all opined about this 'tard from the heights of your collective brilliance? Doesn't seem that way to me.


For what it's worth I summarized it - to the degree one can summarize a 74 page rant - earlier in this thread. If you actually read this thread.

No summarization of this guy's lunacy could have sufficed, believe me. I read the whole thing. It's giving me the idea that the free exchange of ideas and knowledge of the world made possible by the internet isn't a very desirable thing. The world would have been better off if they guy had been aborted in utero, or killed in a robbery or died of a sudden-onset illness, believe me.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Dapper Dan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dapper Dan wrote:
There is a reason why people say "words matter" - especially someone given a platform such as the president. There will always be crazy people in the world...people on the fringe, people willing to go to the extreme. It is a COMPLETELY LOGICAL CONCLUSION that if you wind these toy soldiers up, they will march into battle. You don't have to be very smart to realize this...you just imply that someone ought to get violent against CNN reporters in your rally, and wow, who could have predicted it? Someone is attacking a reporter! You shout at a crowd about how Mexicans are invading the country, next thing you know Bubba is down in Arizona walking around the border "exercising his right to carry" his AR15. Jews, blacks, gays, whatever, it isn't hard to rally these guys to do your dirty work. People have been doing it for centuries.

Our dipshit president is absolutely culpable in this, as are people who echo his hate every chance they get. As are people who spread or listen to the message of the killer. This wasn't about killing Muslims, it was about having his voice heard. Why the hell would I read his crap?


I think you guys are barmy over that dumbass, and it colors your perception of every single bad thing that happens in the world. This guy was a fucking lunatic, and if it hadn't been his eco-fascist, white-supremacist mental illness that led him down this path it would have been something else. He was born to kill, and he was eventually going to kill no matter what. Just read his manifesto, and you'll see that.

At any rate, you-all will get your chance to fix things -- by electing some other dumbass -- in 2020. I hope you're all happy with the outcome. Because maybe it'd get you folks to stop whining so much.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by: big kahuna: Mar 17, 19 9:28
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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tritimmy wrote:
There's no words for this.

Where....did he get those guns in one of the most restrictive gun countries in the world?

How long....before the liberal propaganda machine makes a correlation to trump? -- Who's gonna go first?

Lets talk credibility... you pose a pseudo question, thinking your making a point... of course its a major backfire as you don't know what your talking about and has been pointed out NZ has very lax gun laws. Australia a nearby country and the shooters home has very restrictive laws, so it appears the shooter left the country to go somewhere more hospitable to his plan.

Then again with a pseudo question, try to infer or start something, but act like it wasn't you...

Spend more time getting educated and less time trolling.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
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^ that's been covered already and timmy has been straighten out... why rehash ? I know guilty of starting at the back :)
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know how Dan feels about it being posted here, but I always try to understand the motives of people who do these things, to the extent possible, so we know what's out there. He was very clear about the beliefs and experiences that he says drove him to violence, and he's anything but alone in his perceptions and feelings about it. This is far from the last of it's kind, unfortunately, that we're going to see.

Quote:

  1. There was a period of time 2 years prior to the attack to the attack that

  2. dramatically changed my views.The period of time was from, beginning

  3. of April,2017 until the end May,2017. In this time period a series of events broke down my own reserves, my

  4. reservations, my cynicism and revealed the truth of the Wests current

  5. situation. These events turned my thoughts from pursuing a democratic, political

  6. solution and finally caused the revelation of the truth, that a violent, revolutionary solution is the only possible solution to our current crisis. I was travelling as a tourist in Western Europe at the time, France, Spain

  7. Portugal and others.The first event that begun the change was the terror

  8. attack in Stockholm, on the 7

  9. th of April 2017. It was another terror attack

  10. in the seemingly never ending attacks that had been occurring on a

  11. regular basis throughout my adult life. But for some reason this was

  12. different. The jaded cynicism with which I had greeted previous attacks

  13. didnā€™t eventuate. Something that had been a part of my life for as long as

  14. I could remember, cynicism in the face of attacks on the West by islamic

  15. invaders, was suddenly no longer there. I could no longer bring the sneer

  16. to my face, I could no longer turn my back on the violence. Something, this time, was different. That difference was Ebba Akerlund. Young, innocent and dead Ebba. Ebba was walking to meet her mother after school, when she was

  17. murdered by an Islamic attacker, driving a stolen vehicle through the

  18. shopping promenade on which she was walking. Ebba was partially deaf, unable to hear the attacker coming. Ebba death at the hands of the invaders, the indignity of her violent

  19. demise and my inability to stop it broke through my own jaded cynicism

  20. like a sledgehammer.

  21. I could no longer ignore the attacks. They were attacks on my people, attacks on my culture, attacks on my faith and attacks on my soul. They

  22. would not be ignored. The second event was the 2017 French General election. The candidates

  23. were an obvious sign of our times: a globalist, capitalist, egalitarian, an

  24. ex-investment banker was no national beliefs other than the pursuit of

  25. profit versus a milquetoast,feckless, civic nationalist, an uncontroversial

  26. figure whoā€™s most brave and inspired idea resolved to the possible

  27. deportation of illegal immigrants. Despite this ridiculous match up, the possibility of a victory by the

  28. quasi-nationalist was at least, to myself, a sign that maybe a political

  29. solution was still possible.The internationalist, globalist, anti-white, ex-banker won. It wasnā€™t even close. The truth of the political situation in

  30. Europe was suddenly impossible to accept.My despair set in.My belief in

  31. a democratic solution vanished. The final push was witnessing the state of French cities and towns. For

  32. many years I had been hearing and reading of the invasion of France by

  33. non-whites, many of these rumours and stories I believed to be

  34. exaggerations, created to push a political narrative. But once I arrived in France, I found the stories to not only be true, but

  35. profoundly understated. In every french city, in every french town the invaders were there. No matter where I travelled, no matter how small or rural the community

  36. I visited, the invaders were there. The french people were often in a minority themselves, and the french

  37. that were in the streets were often alone, childless or of advanced age. Whilst the immigrants were young, energized and with large families and

  38. many children. I remember pulling into a shopping centre car park to buy groceries in

  39. some moderate sized town in Eastern France, of roughly 15-25 thousand

  40. people. As I sat there in the parking lot, in my rental car, I watched a

  41. stream of the invaders walk through the shopping centreā€™s front doors. For every french man or woman there was double the number of

  42. invaders. I had seen enough, and in anger, drove out of the the town, refusing to

  43. stay any longer in the cursed place and headed on to the next town. Driving toward the next french town on my itinerary, knowing that

  44. inevitably the invaders would also been there, I found my emotions

  45. swinging between fuming rage and suffocating despair at the indignity of

  46. the invasion of France, the pessimism of the french people, the loss of

  47. culture and identity and the farce of the political solutions offered. I came upon a cemetery, one of the many mass cemeteries created to bury

  48. the French and other European soldiers lost in the Wars that crippled

  49. Europe. I had seen many pictures and heard many people discuss the cemeteries, but even knowing about these cemeteries in advance, I was still not

  50. prepared for the sight. Simple, white, wooden crosses stretching from the fields beside the

  51. roadway, seemingly without end, into the horizon. Their number

  52. uncountable, the representation of their loss unfathomable. I pulled my

  53. rental car over, and sat, staring at these crosses and contemplating how it

  54. was that despite these men and womens sacrifice, despite their bravery, we had still fallen so far.I broke into tears, sobbing alone in the car, staring at the crosses, at the forgotten dead. Why were we allowing these soldiers deaths to be in vain? Why were we

  55. allowing the invaders to conquer us? Overcome us? Without a single shot

  56. fired in response?

  57. WHY WONā€™T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

  58. In front of those endless crosses, in front of those dead soldiers lost in

  59. forgotten wars, my despair turned to shame,my shame to guilt,my guilt to

  60. anger and my anger to rage. WHY WONā€™T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

  61. WHY WONā€™T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

  62. WHY DONā€™T I DO SOMETHING?

  63. The spell broke, why donā€™t I do something?

  64. Why not me?

  65. If not me, then who?

  66. Why them when I could do it myself?

  67. It was there I decided to do something, it was there I decided to take

  68. action, to commit to force.To commit to violence. To take the fight to the invaders myself.


The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
tritimmy wrote:
BLeP is my timeout over?

Youā€™re a big boy, you tell me. Are you finished being an asshole?

Yep. Hey, I just started the inevitable conversation. Admittedly a bit early, but I knew it was coming and this thread has proven it. Sitting here watching it I can say Iā€™ve agreed with comments from folks on both sides of the isle. Heck I even agreed with Kay Serrar on several of her comments on this mess. However none of this rhetoric still doesnā€™t mitigate any of the sadness of this shooting. Thatā€™s it. Iā€™m done! Thanks for letting my out of my room sir.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [sphere] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sphere wrote:
I don't know how Dan feels about it being posted here, but I always try to understand the motives of people who do these things, to the extent possible, so we know what's out there. He was very clear about the beliefs and experiences that he says drove him to violence, and he's anything but alone in his perceptions and feelings about it. This is far from the last of it's kind, unfortunately, that we're going to see.

And though BK keeps trying to paint him as a psychotic lunatic, he writes in a measured, way, enunciating his thoughts quite clearly. There are even passages that BK probably agrees with, such as...

ā€œThe US is torn into many factions by its second amendment, along state, social, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines. With enough pressure the left wing within the United states will seek to
abolish the second amendment, and the right wing within the US will see
this as an attack on their very freedom and liberty. This attempted abolishment of rights by the left will result in a dramatic
polarization of the people in the United States and eventually a fracturing
of the US along cultural and racial lines. Why did you choose New Zealand as a place to attack?
New Zealand was not the original choice for attack, I only arrived to New
Zealand to live temporarily whilst I planned and trained, but I soon found
out that New Zealand was as target rich of an environment as anywhere
else in the West. Secondly an attack in New Zealand would bring to attention the truth of
the assault on our civilization, that no where in the world was safe, the
invaders were in all of our lands, even in the remotest areas of the world
and that there was no where left to go that was safe and free from mass
immigration.ā€


Note also his repeated use of the word ā€œinvadersā€ and ā€œinvasion.ā€ Who else enjoys using that emotive word?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater

Not all zealots are insane, and it's dangerous to dismiss them as such.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Note also his repeated use of the word ā€œinvadersā€ and ā€œinvasion.ā€ Who else enjoys using that emotive word?

Notably, but sadly, predictably, our President, unsolicited, tweeted his support today for Fox News personality Jeanine Pirro, who was ostensibly suspended for suggesting that Rep. Omar is anti-Constitution because she wears a hijab. This, after 50 Muslims are slaughtered by a nationalist who views Muslims as anti-liberty invaders.

I tend to believe that you should never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance, but how many times does he need to tell you who he is before you believe him. He is their champion, our President.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrewmc wrote:
I think it's amazing that the conversation is about the kid rather than Annings language

The real cause of the bloodshed on New Zealand streets is the immigration program which allowed Muslim fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place. While Muslims may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators.

Just because the followers of this savage belief were not the killers in this instance does not make them blameless



Let's ponder his words for a moment.

I do not think that Annings right to say really offensive stupid fucking things the day men women and kids are killed should be restricted, but I find it completely astonishing the bandwidth given to the egging and not the cause.

Isnā€™t this basically the other side of the coin that blames ā€œUS intervention in the Middle Eastā€ for acts of Islamic terrorism?

Yes. Yes it is.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spudone wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Kid hit first.

Don;t be surprised when you get hit back.

OK a) it was an egg, not a punch, and b) as a politician that dude is pretty much done.

Edit: that said, maybe the video belonged in the "eggs are bad for you again" thread :D

It was a slap, not a punch.

The kid didn't punch the senator (your words), he slapped him (open hand) with an egg. And in return, the senator slapped the kid (open hand), not a punch. By your logic, the senator didn't punch him either, he actually did less considering his slap didn't contain an egg.

People are really getting upset that the senator slapped someone that slap-assaulted him first?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Thom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thom wrote:
JSA wrote:


I think you are full of shit.


Please tell me the story about the last time you punched someone in the face for a minor offense like cracking an egg on your head.

The senator didn't punch anyone. You guys should stop saying that. It was an equal slap. Is that really so offensive?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [sphere] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sphere wrote:
Quote:
Note also his repeated use of the word ā€œinvadersā€ and ā€œinvasion.ā€ Who else enjoys using that emotive word?


Notably, but sadly, predictably, our President, unsolicited, tweeted his support today for Fox News personality Jeanine Pirro, who was ostensibly suspended for suggesting that Rep. Omar is anti-Constitution because she wears a hijab. This, after 50 Muslims are slaughtered by a nationalist who views Muslims as anti-liberty invaders.

I tend to believe that you should never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance, but how many times does he need to tell you who he is before you believe him. He is their champion, our President.

This is obviously malice. This is an administration that makes up arrests of terrorists from the middle east, but was silent when they stopped a plot from a white supremacist to kill the president's critics. Why didn't they brag about an actual terrorist plot that they stopped?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [sphere] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sphere wrote:
Quote:
Note also his repeated use of the word ā€œinvadersā€ and ā€œinvasion.ā€ Who else enjoys using that emotive word?

Notably, but sadly, predictably, our President, unsolicited, tweeted his support today for Fox News personality Jeanine Pirro, who was ostensibly suspended for suggesting that Rep. Omar is anti-Constitution because she wears a hijab. This, after 50 Muslims are slaughtered by a nationalist who views Muslims as anti-liberty invaders.

I tend to believe that you should never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance, but how many times does he need to tell you who he is before you believe him. He is their champion, our President.

Please stop trying to bring sense to the table. BK and his ilk arenā€™t going to eat it.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duffy wrote:


Isnā€™t this basically the other side of the coin that blames ā€œUS intervention in the Middle Eastā€ for acts of Islamic terrorism?

Yes. Yes it is.


No, no it's not at all. You're making the equivalence to legally immigrating (in the case of NZ Muslims) and the U.S. propping up despotic governments using coercive - often clandestine - measures. Those two are absolutely nothing alike.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 17, 19 15:56
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
Duffy wrote:


Isnā€™t this basically the other side of the coin that blames ā€œUS intervention in the Middle Eastā€ for acts of Islamic terrorism?

Yes. Yes it is.


No, no it's not at all. You're making the equivalence to legally immigrating (in the case of NZ Muslims) and the U.S. propping up despotic governments using coercive - often clandestine - measures. Those two are absolutely nothing alike.


Forget it, he's rolling



_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
Dapper Dan wrote:
There is a reason why people say "words matter" - especially someone given a platform such as the president. There will always be crazy people in the world...people on the fringe, people willing to go to the extreme. It is a COMPLETELY LOGICAL CONCLUSION that if you wind these toy soldiers up, they will march into battle. You don't have to be very smart to realize this...you just imply that someone ought to get violent against CNN reporters in your rally, and wow, who could have predicted it? Someone is attacking a reporter! You shout at a crowd about how Mexicans are invading the country, next thing you know Bubba is down in Arizona walking around the border "exercising his right to carry" his AR15. Jews, blacks, gays, whatever, it isn't hard to rally these guys to do your dirty work. People have been doing it for centuries.

Our dipshit president is absolutely culpable in this, as are people who echo his hate every chance they get. As are people who spread or listen to the message of the killer. This wasn't about killing Muslims, it was about having his voice heard. Why the hell would I read his crap?


I think you guys are barmy over that dumbass, and it colors your perception of every single bad thing that happens in the world. This guy was a fucking lunatic, and if it hadn't been his eco-fascist, white-supremacist mental illness that led him down this path it would have been something else. He was born to kill, and he was eventually going to kill no matter what. Just read his manifesto, and you'll see that.

At any rate, you-all will get your chance to fix things -- by electing some other dumbass -- in 2020. I hope you're all happy with the outcome. Because maybe it'd get you folks to stop whining so much.

Fair enough, BK. You keep railing that the guy is a lunatic and it doesnā€™t matter what ā€œsideā€ he is from. I completely, 100% agree with you. Just like I am sur you will agree that this is the cAse when a radical Islamic terrorist blows up a bus. Seems insane to me.

But that isnā€™t what you are saying. Because motivation only matters when it is an act of ā€œIslamic terrorismā€ if you are on the right. Iā€™m not sure why that is. I guess it is easier than actually giving it some thought.

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There are some mass shooters who seem genuinely outside any recognizable political or religious cohort. The Vegas shooter was one. He apparently wasn't all that political or religious.

This isn't one of those guys. Just the opposite. He's provided the most detailed, painstakingly documented evidence of his ideological motivation and his ideological heroes that I can remember.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CaptainCanada wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Dapper Dan wrote:
There is a reason why people say "words matter" - especially someone given a platform such as the president. There will always be crazy people in the world...people on the fringe, people willing to go to the extreme. It is a COMPLETELY LOGICAL CONCLUSION that if you wind these toy soldiers up, they will march into battle. You don't have to be very smart to realize this...you just imply that someone ought to get violent against CNN reporters in your rally, and wow, who could have predicted it? Someone is attacking a reporter! You shout at a crowd about how Mexicans are invading the country, next thing you know Bubba is down in Arizona walking around the border "exercising his right to carry" his AR15. Jews, blacks, gays, whatever, it isn't hard to rally these guys to do your dirty work. People have been doing it for centuries.

Our dipshit president is absolutely culpable in this, as are people who echo his hate every chance they get. As are people who spread or listen to the message of the killer. This wasn't about killing Muslims, it was about having his voice heard. Why the hell would I read his crap?


I think you guys are barmy over that dumbass, and it colors your perception of every single bad thing that happens in the world. This guy was a fucking lunatic, and if it hadn't been his eco-fascist, white-supremacist mental illness that led him down this path it would have been something else. He was born to kill, and he was eventually going to kill no matter what. Just read his manifesto, and you'll see that.

At any rate, you-all will get your chance to fix things -- by electing some other dumbass -- in 2020. I hope you're all happy with the outcome. Because maybe it'd get you folks to stop whining so much.

Fair enough, BK. You keep railing that the guy is a lunatic and it doesnā€™t matter what ā€œsideā€ he is from. I completely, 100% agree with you. Just like I am sur you will agree that this is the cAse when a radical Islamic terrorist blows up a bus. Seems insane to me.

But that isnā€™t what you are saying. Because motivation only matters when it is an act of ā€œIslamic terrorismā€ if you are on the right. Iā€™m not sure why that is. I guess it is easier than actually giving it some thought.

This.

BK's "Mr Impartiality" schtick is so transparently laughable it's pathetic.

See his latest doctoral thesis-length post, this time on the shooter's motivations (which, you know, he doesn't actually care about but which totally by coincidence omits any correlation to Trump - despite the shooter specifically mentioning him - for an example of his "impartiality".
Quote Reply
Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: spudone: Mar 17, 19 21:56
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I thought about replying to this yesterday. I saw trails reply, so to be clear you think:

Refugee moves to NZ and goes to religious service is therefore asking to be shot by white lunatic is the other side the coin where US bombs shit out of country and engenders resentment and builds terrorism?

No, I don't think so, that would be a bit like blaming African Americans for having family from west Africa and its there fault they became slaves because if they had not been there slavers would not have picked them up

There is zero equivalency between any nations foreign policy as an explanation for building terrorists and blaming a group who emigrate to a country as asking for it.........
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrewmc wrote:
I thought about replying to this yesterday. I saw trails reply, so to be clear you think:

Refugee moves to NZ and goes to religious service is therefore asking to be shot by white lunatic is the other side the coin where US bombs shit out of country and engenders resentment and builds terrorism?

No, I don't think so, that would be a bit like blaming African Americans for having family from west Africa and its there fault they became slaves because if they had not been there slavers would not have picked them up

There is zero equivalency between any nations foreign policy as an explanation for building terrorists and blaming a group who emigrate to a country as asking for it.........

Ok. I can play this game.

So to be clear you think....

Islamic terrorism against innocent americans is justified.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duffy wrote:
Andrewmc wrote:
I thought about replying to this yesterday. I saw trails reply, so to be clear you think:

Refugee moves to NZ and goes to religious service is therefore asking to be shot by white lunatic is the other side the coin where US bombs shit out of country and engenders resentment and builds terrorism?

No, I don't think so, that would be a bit like blaming African Americans for having family from west Africa and its there fault they became slaves because if they had not been there slavers would not have picked them up

There is zero equivalency between any nations foreign policy as an explanation for building terrorists and blaming a group who emigrate to a country as asking for it.........


Ok. I can play this game.

So to be clear you think....

Islamic terrorism against innocent americans is justified.


Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not at all

One does not follow the other
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duffy wrote:
Andrewmc wrote:
I thought about replying to this yesterday. I saw trails reply, so to be clear you think:

Refugee moves to NZ and goes to religious service is therefore asking to be shot by white lunatic is the other side the coin where US bombs shit out of country and engenders resentment and builds terrorism?

No, I don't think so, that would be a bit like blaming African Americans for having family from west Africa and its there fault they became slaves because if they had not been there slavers would not have picked them up

There is zero equivalency between any nations foreign policy as an explanation for building terrorists and blaming a group who emigrate to a country as asking for it.........


Ok. I can play this game.

So to be clear you think....

Islamic terrorism against innocent americans is justified.

I am going to go ahead and assume that because it's 4:08 in the am on this post that you aren't thinking at your best.

Have a coffee, splash some water on your face and try again.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [sphere] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sphere wrote:
I don't know how Dan feels about it being posted here, but I always try to understand the motives of people who do these things, to the extent possible, so we know what's out there. He was very clear about the beliefs and experiences that he says drove him to violence, and he's anything but alone in his perceptions and feelings about it. This is far from the last of it's kind, unfortunately, that we're going to see.

Quote:


  1. There was a period of time 2 years prior to the attack to the attack that

  2. dramatically changed my views.The period of time was from, beginning

  3. of April,2017 until the end May,2017. In this time period a series of events broke down my own reserves, my

  4. reservations, my cynicism and revealed the truth of the Wests current

  5. situation. These events turned my thoughts from pursuing a democratic, political

  6. solution and finally caused the revelation of the truth, that a violent, revolutionary solution is the only possible solution to our current crisis. I was travelling as a tourist in Western Europe at the time, France, Spain

  7. Portugal and others.The first event that begun the change was the terror

  8. attack in Stockholm, on the 7

  9. th of April 2017. It was another terror attack

  10. in the seemingly never ending attacks that had been occurring on a

  11. regular basis throughout my adult life. But for some reason this was

  12. different. The jaded cynicism with which I had greeted previous attacks

  13. didnā€™t eventuate. Something that had been a part of my life for as long as

  14. I could remember, cynicism in the face of attacks on the West by islamic

  15. invaders, was suddenly no longer there. I could no longer bring the sneer

  16. to my face, I could no longer turn my back on the violence. Something, this time, was different. That difference was Ebba Akerlund. Young, innocent and dead Ebba. Ebba was walking to meet her mother after school, when she was

  17. murdered by an Islamic attacker, driving a stolen vehicle through the

  18. shopping promenade on which she was walking. Ebba was partially deaf, unable to hear the attacker coming. Ebba death at the hands of the invaders, the indignity of her violent

  19. demise and my inability to stop it broke through my own jaded cynicism

  20. like a sledgehammer.

  21. I could no longer ignore the attacks. They were attacks on my people, attacks on my culture, attacks on my faith and attacks on my soul. They

  22. would not be ignored. The second event was the 2017 French General election. The candidates

  23. were an obvious sign of our times: a globalist, capitalist, egalitarian, an

  24. ex-investment banker was no national beliefs other than the pursuit of

  25. profit versus a milquetoast,feckless, civic nationalist, an uncontroversial

  26. figure whoā€™s most brave and inspired idea resolved to the possible

  27. deportation of illegal immigrants. Despite this ridiculous match up, the possibility of a victory by the

  28. quasi-nationalist was at least, to myself, a sign that maybe a political

  29. solution was still possible.The internationalist, globalist, anti-white, ex-banker won. It wasnā€™t even close. The truth of the political situation in

  30. Europe was suddenly impossible to accept.My despair set in.My belief in

  31. a democratic solution vanished. The final push was witnessing the state of French cities and towns. For

  32. many years I had been hearing and reading of the invasion of France by

  33. non-whites, many of these rumours and stories I believed to be

  34. exaggerations, created to push a political narrative. But once I arrived in France, I found the stories to not only be true, but

  35. profoundly understated. In every french city, in every french town the invaders were there. No matter where I travelled, no matter how small or rural the community

  36. I visited, the invaders were there. The french people were often in a minority themselves, and the french

  37. that were in the streets were often alone, childless or of advanced age. Whilst the immigrants were young, energized and with large families and

  38. many children. I remember pulling into a shopping centre car park to buy groceries in

  39. some moderate sized town in Eastern France, of roughly 15-25 thousand

  40. people. As I sat there in the parking lot, in my rental car, I watched a

  41. stream of the invaders walk through the shopping centreā€™s front doors. For every french man or woman there was double the number of

  42. invaders. I had seen enough, and in anger, drove out of the the town, refusing to

  43. stay any longer in the cursed place and headed on to the next town. Driving toward the next french town on my itinerary, knowing that

  44. inevitably the invaders would also been there, I found my emotions

  45. swinging between fuming rage and suffocating despair at the indignity of

  46. the invasion of France, the pessimism of the french people, the loss of

  47. culture and identity and the farce of the political solutions offered. I came upon a cemetery, one of the many mass cemeteries created to bury

  48. the French and other European soldiers lost in the Wars that crippled

  49. Europe. I had seen many pictures and heard many people discuss the cemeteries, but even knowing about these cemeteries in advance, I was still not

  50. prepared for the sight. Simple, white, wooden crosses stretching from the fields beside the

  51. roadway, seemingly without end, into the horizon. Their number

  52. uncountable, the representation of their loss unfathomable. I pulled my

  53. rental car over, and sat, staring at these crosses and contemplating how it

  54. was that despite these men and womens sacrifice, despite their bravery, we had still fallen so far.I broke into tears, sobbing alone in the car, staring at the crosses, at the forgotten dead. Why were we allowing these soldiers deaths to be in vain? Why were we

  55. allowing the invaders to conquer us? Overcome us? Without a single shot

  56. fired in response?

  57. WHY WONā€™T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

  58. In front of those endless crosses, in front of those dead soldiers lost in

  59. forgotten wars, my despair turned to shame,my shame to guilt,my guilt to

  60. anger and my anger to rage. WHY WONā€™T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

  61. WHY WONā€™T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

  62. WHY DONā€™T I DO SOMETHING?

  63. The spell broke, why donā€™t I do something?

  64. Why not me?

  65. If not me, then who?

  66. Why them when I could do it myself?

  67. It was there I decided to do something, it was there I decided to take

  68. action, to commit to force.To commit to violence. To take the fight to the invaders myself.



His observations are in many cases accurate. The Muslim culture is dynamic and expanding. The French culture is contracting many of its voluntary associations disappearing even the most basic that of families and children. The antidote would have been to get married and have four or five kids maybe join some group of like minded people and engage in some project of civilization. So why did he not do that and chose to go and kill? Why did he chose despair and not life and faith in the future?

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [len] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
His observations are in many cases accurate. The Muslim culture is dynamic and expanding. The French culture is contracting many of its voluntary associations disappearing even the most basic that of families and children.


That appears to be the case, and nationalists' concerns are compounded by the reality of Islamic terrorism against the West, the media's apparent reluctance to report heavily on crimes motivated by Islamism for fear of stoking bias, apparent unquestioned promotion of multiculturalism as a desirable endpoint for society, etc. To a point, I understand and appreciate these concerns, but obviously I fall well short of advocating violence against immigrants and people of other ethnic and cultural backgrounds. There are very real problems with immigration essentially changing the cultural fabric of communities, to the point where natural born citizens feel like their home no longer looks or feels as it once did. That's a subjective assessment, obviously, but there are plenty of examples where communities do objectively morph into something previously unrecognizable almost overnight because of the pace of immigration and expansion of those communities. Those are valid concerns and citizens have the right to be heard on how it impacts their lives without being labeled racists or xenophobes.

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The antidote would have been to get married and have four or five kids maybe join some group of like minded people and engage in some project of civilization. So why did he not do that and chose to go and kill? Why did he chose despair and not life and faith in the future?


He addressed that point, somewhat. He wanted to ignite a chain of events that could spark revolution; just doing his small part (wife, kids) couldn't measure up to that, in terms of impact.

These weren't the actions of a totally illogical, irrational man. A sociopath, yes, by definition. He's a zealot who saw something of value being lost and he resorted to unthinkable violence in a way that the vast majority of people never could or would. That's not a defense of his actions, character, motive, or anything whatsoever; I'm just acknowledging the reality of the nature of this terrorist act.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Mar 18, 19 6:41
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
This wasn't the actions of an illogical, irrational man. He's a zealot who saw something of value being lost and he resorted to violence in a way that the vast majority of people never could or would. That's not a defense of his actions, character, motive, or anything whatsoever; I'm just acknowledging the reality of the nature of this terrorist act.

These guys often seem to say that they want to ignite a revolution or something along those lines. Has that ever happened? Maybe there are examples? Seems like usually it's just widespread condemnation and no fire ever kicks off.

So I guess his thinking may not be illogical or irrational but I'm doubtful his conclusion was correct.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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So, on the white nationalist comment............I'd give him the out of labeling it "racial supremacy extremism" or something like that if he doesn't want to single out whites the same way Obama/Clinton didn't want to single out Islam.

Either way, it can't be one and not the other. It's either both white nationalism and Islamic extremism, or it's neither. He doesn't suddenly get to change his mind now that he's the one being confronted with a loaded question.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Those are valid concerns and citizens have the right to be heard on how it impacts their lives without being labeled racists or xenophobes.


Both the validity and the right are subject to the method and content of the speech. No one in any context gets a blanket freedom from criticism or labeling.

Quote:
He's a zealot who saw something of value being lost and he resorted to unthinkable violence in a way that the vast majority of people never could or would.


It's not unthinkable at all. It's standard. It's a typical American-style mass shooting with a little ISIS-style social media savvy thrown in. He did very little original. House of worship? Been done. Live blog? Been done. And we think about it all the time. It's part of the rhythm of modern life now. Every few months this happens.

Last edited by: trail: Mar 18, 19 6:53
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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It wasnā€™t a question.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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As you rightly point out there is this sense of loss and it is legitimate to ask questions about what can be done about this. Not legitimate to go and shoot a bunch of people.

This is in no way an original idea of mine but the question is being asked, is the political experiment of liberalism in the West running out of gas? In the face of the discontent of a large number of citizens is the solution to double down on liberalism insist on more gov't intervention to produce equal outcomes and enforce conformity or will that only exacerbate the situation? Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?

What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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WelshinPhilly wrote:
CaptainCanada wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Dapper Dan wrote:
There is a reason why people say "words matter" - especially someone given a platform such as the president. There will always be crazy people in the world...people on the fringe, people willing to go to the extreme. It is a COMPLETELY LOGICAL CONCLUSION that if you wind these toy soldiers up, they will march into battle. You don't have to be very smart to realize this...you just imply that someone ought to get violent against CNN reporters in your rally, and wow, who could have predicted it? Someone is attacking a reporter! You shout at a crowd about how Mexicans are invading the country, next thing you know Bubba is down in Arizona walking around the border "exercising his right to carry" his AR15. Jews, blacks, gays, whatever, it isn't hard to rally these guys to do your dirty work. People have been doing it for centuries.

Our dipshit president is absolutely culpable in this, as are people who echo his hate every chance they get. As are people who spread or listen to the message of the killer. This wasn't about killing Muslims, it was about having his voice heard. Why the hell would I read his crap?


I think you guys are barmy over that dumbass, and it colors your perception of every single bad thing that happens in the world. This guy was a fucking lunatic, and if it hadn't been his eco-fascist, white-supremacist mental illness that led him down this path it would have been something else. He was born to kill, and he was eventually going to kill no matter what. Just read his manifesto, and you'll see that.

At any rate, you-all will get your chance to fix things -- by electing some other dumbass -- in 2020. I hope you're all happy with the outcome. Because maybe it'd get you folks to stop whining so much.


Fair enough, BK. You keep railing that the guy is a lunatic and it doesnā€™t matter what ā€œsideā€ he is from. I completely, 100% agree with you. Just like I am sur you will agree that this is the cAse when a radical Islamic terrorist blows up a bus. Seems insane to me.

But that isnā€™t what you are saying. Because motivation only matters when it is an act of ā€œIslamic terrorismā€ if you are on the right. Iā€™m not sure why that is. I guess it is easier than actually giving it some thought.


This.

BK's "Mr Impartiality" schtick is so transparently laughable it's pathetic.

See his latest doctoral thesis-length post, this time on the shooter's motivations (which, you know, he doesn't actually care about but which totally by coincidence omits any correlation to Trump - despite the shooter specifically mentioning him - for an example of his "impartiality".

You know, the trouble with you folks of a certain ideological bent here in the LR is that if you're not jumping up and down on Donald Fucking Trump's head at every opportunity, and loudly condemning him and his supporters for everything and everything, you're guilty of an array of crimes against humanity. So, someone give me my little Red Book so that I can learn the rules of the road here on out. It'll at least make you guys happy, right?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?


What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?

I don't know about anything else -- because the argument for so-called "Muslim domination" seems a bit ahead of its time by centuries, actually -- and the French deserve whatever it is they get because they'll crawl into bed with and collaborate with any group they perceive to have the upper hand, but I think it's really nice to see the sort of tribal warfare it is we see in various Third World and Muslim hellholes finally make it to the West.

I mean, some fucking white lunatic slaughters a bunch of Muslims, in response to his belief that Muslims are slaughtering white Christians (I guess Christians), and boom! Some Turk, who's obviously a Muslim, goes on a shooting spree on a tram in Utrecht (that's in the Netherlands, for you geographically challenged folks).

So who gets it in the neck, next? Anyone taking bets yet?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Nobody is asking you to say anything mean about Senor Trump. Just drop the whole "I am neutral observer" bullshit.

You aren't.

In any way.

Not even close.

And that's ok.

Just admit it.

That is all.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Last edited by: BLeP: Mar 18, 19 8:00
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
trail wrote:
There are some mass shooters who seem genuinely outside any recognizable political or religious cohort. The Vegas shooter was one. He apparently wasn't all that political or religious.

This isn't one of those guys. Just the opposite. He's provided the most detailed, painstakingly documented evidence of his ideological motivation and his ideological heroes that I can remember.


I was thinking about your comment while I was running today.

While the shooter clearly spent a lot of time forming and describing his motivation, his decided course of action was lazy and cowardly. And if he had really thought it through, he'd see that his shooting would only serve to hurt his own cause.

He went and shot a bunch of defenseless people.

What's that going to do? Probably incite other terrorists to look for revenge.

But is it going to turn away the "invaders" as he calls them? Not at all. As bad as it is to shoot up a religious place, it's not going to inspire the level of fear he desires. When refugees in war-torn countries are capable of fleeing to a first world nation, it's a no-brainer for them. As long as that level of strife exists, where it's dangerous for them every single day, they will want to leave.

General Petraeus' Counterinsurgency Field Manual extends this line of thought to actually stabilizing those war-torn areas. This is the real long-term goal. But it's a project of years, and to the guy who wrote that manifesto, it probably seems like doing nothing.

Isn't the purpose of a jihad to kill the infidel, whenever, wherever? In his mind, he is carrying that out (much like the jihadists). Isn't he saying - we can get you whenever, wherever? Nowhere is safe for you. I think that was his goal (sick and misguided as it is).

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.

No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?


What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?

I've said that multiple times here but the Fox News watchers keep wanting to equate North African descent with Muslim. In reality, most folks are largely secular.
But with Fox News folks, it's easier to match looks with ideology.
As for the number of Norther African descent people in France...it's ironic that the killer calls them invaders, when the reason they are in France in the first place is because France actually did invade them.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:

Isn't the purpose of a jihad to kill the infidel, whenever, wherever? In his mind, he is carrying that out (much like the jihadists). Isn't he saying - we can get you whenever, wherever? Nowhere is safe for you. I think that was his goal (sick and misguided as it is).

Exactly.

We've enter a cycle of retardation. Tit for tat killings. I don't have any clue how you stop it

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Francois] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Francois wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?


What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?


I've said that multiple times here but the Fox News watchers keep wanting to equate North African descent with Muslim. In reality, most folks are largely secular.
But with Fox News folks, it's easier to match looks with ideology.
As for the number of Norther African descent people in France...it's ironic that the killer calls them invaders, when the reason they are in France in the first place is because France actually did invade them.

And from what I saw France has more "Muslims" than any Western European nation. Seems to be a bit of hyperbole all this stuff about Europe being over run.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Nobody is asking you to say anything mean about Senor Trump. Just drop the whole "I am neutral observer" bullshit.

You aren't.

In any way.

Not even close.

And that's ok.

Just admit it.

That is all.

You're the ones who bring up this "impartiality" BS as regards me, not I. Have I ever given any indication that I'm in any way supportive of any policy nonsense being pushed by the left or progressives (BIRM)? I think I've been pretty clear in saying that I'm a conservative with libertarian leanings. That DOESN'T mean I'm either a Republican or a fan of the fucktard running around the Oval Office, just as I'm not supportive of any of the morons trying to cram into the Democratic Party presidential clown car right now. You won't find a bigger collection of idiots and jag-offs anywhere, IMHO.

I'm not voting in 2020. I didn't vote in 2018. Because what's the point?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!

He asked me the question. Not you. But feel free to interject whatever you'd like and do all my talking for me. You seem good at that.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:

You're the ones who bring up this "impartiality" BS as regards me, not I.

Really? That's what you are going with?

I can't be bothered to pull up the numerous times that you have said this. Stop being an ass.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?


What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?

I don't know for sure. The French seem quite worried about it with a disproportionate number of Muslims being in French prisons. If Muslims were ten percent of the population and numbers doubled every twenty years due to higher birthrates and low native French birthrates being below replacement they could reach 40 percent in two generations. You don't have to be the majority to be the dominant culture either. There also is the tendency for ethnic populations to aggregate in certain areas so one could easily see significant areas of France being Muslim majority.

Putting that aside though I think we do need to answer why there are so many people who feel lost and left behind and are reacting so strongly to that by lashing out at others. I don't think simply denouncing them is going to solve that.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!

BK, please pay no attention to BLeP being BLeP. My question was not rhetorical nor in want of sarcasm. I asked earlier if moving forward, do you/we believe that the pulpit of the WH ,regardless of the occupant, has any influence at all on the action of crazies. I believe there is a little red PC book for such commentary by the president and the central premise of the book is to do no further harm or inflame without a game plan to back up words. That the president chooses to self script only enables criticism from detractors as well as justification from some seeing support of bad actions. What say you?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [len] [ In reply to ]
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I say this as someone who has lived in a conservative middle east country. Currently lives in France in a poor region and very poor town is probably moving to Riyadh.

If the Muslim parents of my daughters friends are really over producing relative to the rest of us in the area. I'm not seeing it.

My experience here, in the middle east and londonistan is most people just want to get on with their lives
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Isn't he saying - we can get you whenever, wherever?

That is exactly what he's saying. He wrote it verbatim in his screed.

It's White Nationalist jihad both in conception and execution.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BLeP wrote:
big kahuna wrote:


You're the ones who bring up this "impartiality" BS as regards me, not I.


Really? That's what you are going with?

I can't be bothered to pull up the numerous times that you have said this. Stop being an ass.

That's rich, coming from you. Anyway, you see what you want to see, which is fine with me. (Oooh! Poet but don't know it!)

Me, I'm voluntarily not voting in the next U.S. elections. Which is my right as a citizen of this country. Which country are you a citizen of, again? I forget.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gofigure wrote:
BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!


BK, please pay no attention to BLeP being BLeP. My question was not rhetorical nor in want of sarcasm. I asked earlier if moving forward, do you/we believe that the pulpit of the WH ,regardless of the occupant, has any influence at all on the action of crazies. I believe there is a little red PC book for such commentary by the president and the central premise of the book is to do no further harm or inflame without a game plan to back up words. That the president chooses to self script only enables criticism from detractors as well as justification from some seeing support of bad actions. What say you?


OF COURSE what a U.S. president says or does or doesn't do can affect the crazies out there. These are the same people who listen to Beatles records, for example, and think that the group is commanding them to start some sort of race war, when all the lads are doing is singing about a damn roller coaster. This lunatic Tarrant is of the same stripe.

So what's a U.S. president supposed to do? And especially a guy like the current occupant who, if you try to punch him is going to try to punch you right back? Just STFU and deliver nonsense homilies in a fireside chat in the Oval Office? Leaving aside that his supporters -- including most Republicans, who still support him at levels exceeding 90% -- would throw him over if he ever stopped, it's also the case that the presidency has long since given up that sort of "gentlemanly" interaction with the American people and with the rest of the world, for good or ill.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by: big kahuna: Mar 18, 19 15:03
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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A sitting President could be crystal clear in condemnation of Nazis and white supremists - then their staff and handlers wouldn't have to step up to clarify and defend https://www.nbcnews.com/...-supremacist-n984191
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
This is in no way an original idea of mine but the question is being asked, is the political experiment of liberalism in the West running out of gas? In the face of the discontent of a large number of citizens is the solution to double down on liberalism insist on more gov't intervention to produce equal outcomes and enforce conformity or will that only exacerbate the situation?

I assume you're not talking about classical liberalism here. At least I hope you're not.

What do you mean by "doubling down on liberalism". As opposed to what? Running indoctrination camps like China is doing?

The dude picked the wrong country, though. New Zealand is a great example of successful multi-culturalism. All manner of polynesians were there first. Then all manner of Europeans (English, South African, Dutch, etc). Then Chinese, Indian, Filipino.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
gofigure wrote:
BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!


BK, please pay no attention to BLeP being BLeP. My question was not rhetorical nor in want of sarcasm. I asked earlier if moving forward, do you/we believe that the pulpit of the WH ,regardless of the occupant, has any influence at all on the action of crazies. I believe there is a little red PC book for such commentary by the president and the central premise of the book is to do no further harm or inflame without a game plan to back up words. That the president chooses to self script only enables criticism from detractors as well as justification from some seeing support of bad actions. What say you?


OF COURSE what a U.S. president says or does or doesn't do can affect the crazies out there. These are the same people who listen to Beatles records, for example, and think that the group is commanding them to start some sort of race war, when all the lads are doing is singing about a damn roller coaster. This lunatic Tarrant is of the same stripe.

So what's a U.S. president supposed to do? And especially a guy like the current occupant who, if you try to punch him is going to try to punch you right back? Just STFU and deliver nonsense homilies in a fireside chat in the Oval Office? Leaving aside that his supporters -- including most Republicans, who still support him at levels exceeding 90% -- would throw him over if he ever stopped, it's also the case that the presidency has long since given up that sort of "gentlemanly" interaction with the American people and with the rest of the world, for good or ill.

Whatā€™s a US president supposed to do?

Well George W Bush visited a mosque after 9/11 to demonstrate support for the Muslim community. Something the current president has been unable to do after the NZ shootings.

George Bush also said this today:

ā€œamid all the complications of policy, may we never forget that immigration is a blessing and a strength.ā€

Thatā€™s what a US president is supposed to do.
Quote Reply
Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
gofigure wrote:
BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!


BK, please pay no attention to BLeP being BLeP. My question was not rhetorical nor in want of sarcasm. I asked earlier if moving forward, do you/we believe that the pulpit of the WH ,regardless of the occupant, has any influence at all on the action of crazies. I believe there is a little red PC book for such commentary by the president and the central premise of the book is to do no further harm or inflame without a game plan to back up words. That the president chooses to self script only enables criticism from detractors as well as justification from some seeing support of bad actions. What say you?


OF COURSE what a U.S. president says or does or doesn't do can affect the crazies out there. These are the same people who listen to Beatles records, for example, and think that the group is commanding them to start some sort of race war, when all the lads are doing is singing about a damn roller coaster. This lunatic Tarrant is of the same stripe.

So what's a U.S. president supposed to do? And especially a guy like the current occupant who, if you try to punch him is going to try to punch you right back? Just STFU and deliver nonsense homilies in a fireside chat in the Oval Office? Leaving aside that his supporters -- including most Republicans, who still support him at levels exceeding 90% -- would throw him over if he ever stopped, it's also the case that the presidency has long since given up that sort of "gentlemanly" interaction with the American people and with the rest of the world, for good or ill.

Thank you.

Para 1: No debate there.

Para 2: I disagree with the bolded statements. The numbers willing to throw him over were he to be more inclusive and equal in his empathy of victims, however victimized, are insignificant. He could "play act" as a counter punching cowboy who wears a white hat somewhat like Reagan did. But that is not in his make up. The "real" Trump is a MAGA nationalist who is white and narcissistic. But is he a white supremacist nationalist? My take is that only the supremacists would be willing to throw him over. The nationalists would go along because they have no viable replacement. Heaven help the USA if the supremacists numbers are 90% of Trump's party, aka Republicans. As for the "long since given up gentlemanly presidencies", if that is the case, then it is entirely in the for ill category; and, you think the woman folk running for the office would take issue with your sexism?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Side question. What does "throw him over" mean, since you guys keep using that phrase? Is it short for the metaphorical "throw overboard?"
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [trail] [ In reply to ]
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BK used. I just quoted. I assumed he meant no longer support. Throw overboard fits.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration

Senator Anning is looking for a new job after losing his senate seat in the election. Good riddance.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Ironnerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ironnerd wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration


Senator Anning is looking for a new job after losing his senate seat in the election. Good riddance.

labor supporter?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
IamSpartacus wrote:
Ironnerd wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration


Senator Anning is looking for a new job after losing his senate seat in the election. Good riddance.


labor supporter?

Lol in fairness even coalition representatives were condemning his statements.

It's clear that there's a general unease among moderate conservatives as to the way things are heading and frustration that they are not permitted to have a voice. I can't say I'm sold on continually importing the woes of some of these shit shows. Melbourne gangs anyone?

If people keep shutting down this discussion the likes of Fraser Annings will appear.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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IamSpartacus wrote:
Ironnerd wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration


Senator Anning is looking for a new job after losing his senate seat in the election. Good riddance.


labor supporter?

Anybody but Anning supporter!
In Australia we have preferential voting. In the senate you need to number at least 6 parties. It gave me great pleasure to number all of the parties and put Pauline Hanson, Anning and the anti immunisation/anti fluoride party last.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
IamSpartacus wrote:
Ironnerd wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration


Senator Anning is looking for a new job after losing his senate seat in the election. Good riddance.


labor supporter?

Hardly necessary. Anning has been the most universally condemned and reviled politician that I can remember.
It's are rare skill; such an ability to unite a nation. Good f'ing riddance indeed.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Ironnerd] [ In reply to ]
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Ironnerd wrote:
In Australia we have preferential voting. In the senate you need to number at least 6 parties. It gave me great pleasure to number all of the parties and put Pauline Hanson, Anning and the anti immunisation/anti fluoride party last.

I tend to find this at every election, but this time in particular it was hard to decide who to put last. So many whackjobs to choose from.
It made me nostalgic for the old days when you could just put Fred Nile's Christian Democrats* last and be done with it.

For the non-Aussies, they are like the US' Moral Majority, i.e. neither moral nor a majority.

Personally, being a part of voting out Tony Abbott (Team Zali) made this election richly satisfying, but its not a great sign when the satisfaction with who gets sacked is so much greater than the satisfaction with who gets elected.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Bone Idol] [ In reply to ]
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"Egg Boy" who threw an egg at ex Senator Anning has donated nearly $100 000 to the survivors of the massacre. The money was raised through crown funding to cover his legal fees. He was represented pro bono so donated all of the money raised.
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