I tunnel tested the LG, Kiwami and Huub (all short sleeve). I'm sticking with LG.

I'd love to test several people on the Velotec suit. Their skin suit is amazing and consistently beats more expensive suits for us and every other test facility I've spoken with.

LG is still good...and comfortable.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Depends if you want custom or stock suit. Started with ownway last season because I wanted a customized suit and loved it. You design it and they print it. Very comfy too. It is the only sleeves suit that is flexible enough that I could swim in it.

I wore LG and wattie ink before that. Both were nice but rolling them down for the swim then putting it on going to T1 was usually fine but not the most ideal.

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Twitter - Instagram

I swim with Kiwami on and never had an issue with shoulder restriction. Also swam with Zoot suits in the past and I always size down for a good fit. These were wetsuit swims so as far as shoulder restriction goes the wetsuit is going to restrict more of that movement than a tri suit will ever do.

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What's your CdA?

I’m looking too, I’ve tried sls3 and it just wasn’t comfortable for me. I suppose other more expensive one piece tri suit brand names are better.

With that said with the suits I’ve used I just feel more comfortable in a two piece.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Not true for everyone. My wetsuit does not restrict my shoulder movement but my trisuit has.

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Twitter - Instagram

I have been wearing the LG without rolling it up for years with no issues. I have wanted to go with the wattie ink kit since I love the way all there other stuff fits, but never seen any testing with these kits so hard to buy with no data at all. Guess going with what Jim said its hard to beat the LG still.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Does anyone know of an update to the LG suit? I have a clearance M" that I picked up 2 years ago but they are extremely difficult to get a hold of in the UK, I hoped that this was due to an update (even just colour scheme) being on the way now that we have an LG UK site.

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Practise doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. Only perfect practice makes perfect!

That must have been nice! I wear a small at 6 ft 160ish so they are all way to tight around the shoulders for me to swim in but the OwnWay one seems to be more forgiving. I really liked the Wattie Ink kit when I wore it but didn't love that it wasn't a full zip. Really like having the full zip on the one piece sleeved suits.

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Twitter - Instagram

I am 5'11, 160 and never felt to bad in a small, was just always such a pain trying to pull it up over the shoulders and get all the wrinkles out on the bike if I rolled it down.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

The sleeved suit I tried from them was absolute garbage. I learned why they were so much less expensive.

I haven't tried others but I like my Zoot trisuit so much, bought 3 in different colors. They are one piece sleeved.

What are your measurements and what size Zoot did you go with? Looking at them now and always like to hear real sizing experience versus the sizing guide. I am 6', 150 lbs, 29" W so thinking about going with a Small. thanks

I'm 5.11 160 I wore a small. Get a small for sure

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What's your CdA?

My team has been in the Castelli free SanRemo suit for the last few years. I do not know about any test results for it, but they must be out there. I can say that it is very comfortable, stretchy and light. Stays wrinkle free on me, I can easily swim in it (I had trouble swimming with my LG suit and with OwnWay) and the material is great in the heat compared to those other two suits.


They have a new suit coming out "soon" called the All Out Speed Suit that they say is very fast, but I have not seen the data on that either:

https://www.castelli-cycling.com/...men/p/861810418P-010

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

That was a 2018 product release. It would surprise me if Jim Manton hasn't seen some of them come through the velodrome.

Oh thanks, I could have sworn that I saw some on the rack at Colorado Multisport. I guess coming soon means temporarily out of stock.

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-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I still dig Scody, since it has flexibile, skin tight shoulders and tests fastest for me

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

You know is Scody test fast one others? Did you happen to test it against a LG?

I like that they do custom.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I’ve heard great things about Ownway over and over but every time I have an appointment to talk on the phone the miss it, and then I can’t find another day to reschedule. It’s happened like 3 times.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Weird! I have talked with them through email only and they've been responsive. Shoot me a PM if you want the contact person I have talked to and maybe I can set up an introductory email. Email is just so much easier for me with work, a one year old, and training.

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Twitter - Instagram

Ditto; they have been very responsive to me—even well beyond normal business hours.

Will do. I’ve been interested in custom gear

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

He has tested some... if I remember correctly, it never did well compared to others... which shocks me.

I recently switched from LG to the Castelli All Out simply because it felt 100x better and was extremely thin in comparison. I raced it for one Ironman and loved it but am petrified I lost significant time on the bike.

My other half was tested with a number of the top suits and the Scody was fastest at the time. It was also the only super small suit that fit TAF.

The problem with Scody is customer service and an unwillingness to provide sizes that aren't most popular. I have no idea how they manage custom as they don't care about getting you product. I was done after a large order ahead of IMWC where the sizes listed and purchased from their site weren't actually available and they had no interest in manufacturing them with the next batch.

This may not be a problem or as much as a problem for men's suits.

Damn, I was thinking M LG for me but I'm 6' 160 race weight. Thoughts?

I'm 6' and weigh 165-168 lbs during the season. Chest is 36in and waist is 32in (though I wear 31in pants). I have a LG Course M2 in medium and it fits snug but not tight. I've raced 70.3 and a full Ironman in it without every feeling uncomfortable (well, I was uncomfortable during it but it wasn't due to the suit). Looking at pictures I have some wrinkles around the shoulder and arm-pit while on the bike. However that might very well be due to me not paying great attention while I was pulling the top up/on while going through T1

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Matt

I'm 5' 8, 130lb. I wear Medium and feel comfortable with it. I don't like tight fit, so I went with Medium.

I find LG to be the most comfortable for me. I'm old school though, I don't worry about wind tunnel tests or punk rock styling or anything like that, so I may not have the best input.

Well if you were Taren, Skody would give you custom kit.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

That’s very interesting! I swapped last year too. From LG to the all out.

Would be interested to see if there is any data to back this up.

Regards

Phil

Any others we maybe should be taking a look at besides Lg and Velotec?

LG and Velotec are on my list, going to reach out to Velotec this week and see what there ordering process is.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

De Soto Tri suits with built in Fli

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All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

The all out speedsuit is just a 1 piece with the T2 top as the top half. When I tested with Jim, the T2 top was about the same as the LG top I tested. However I didn't test a 1 piece suit of either company (I was testing for full IM and planned to ditch the top for the run in favor of a singlet).

That makes me feel a little better. I had the T2 years ago but the 1 piece is so much better.

Ownway Apparel

http://ownwayapparel.com/triathlon/


Chris and his group did a great job with my design :) Shout out to them

I want a full zipper so I'm looking at the LG and Orca RS1 Dream Kona

I would agree that is a top notch skin suit thats really well done and their sizing choice is also fab with tall versions and regular versions. I would say apart from a bioracer speedsuit i have have had i would think the velotec suit will outlast most, as well stiched and materials are thick.
havent used the aero tri suit and love to see tests on it.
funnily enough its an irish company and they dont sell that much in ireland but in the uk they are very popular.

How about ENDURA or CUORE of Switzerland? Lucy Charles used Endura "Drag2Zero" suit in Kona & I've seen some of the Cuore stuff. There is some Pearl Izumi stuff I heard that was in prototype stages that to the person who saw it, claimed was super high quality (I would totally take his word on it, he knows his aero stuff and equipment very well).

Can't say enough about Kiwami. Fits great, Comfortable chamois, and the ice pockets are underrated for hot races.

The only issue I have with Kiwami is the material (at least on the LD1 and WS1) is not particularly good in the heat. If heat control isn’t a major issue for you then it is certainly worth considering. I still really like and use WS1 for shorter non wetsuit races and its great.

 
I would be interested to get a view (preferably independent view) of the gains obtained from tri suits with "boundary layer management" features, at normal human speeds.

The "V" style VGs, dots, stripes, and rough textures on arms, legs, hips, ...
Even the Nike sub2 runners were using them massively on their legs during "the attempt".

Huub Anemoi
Endura QDC D2Z (Tim Don Kona "V" sleeves)
Castelli PR (used by Cam in Kona, apparently in a 45km/h optimized version - less "roughness" needed to reach the drag crisis)

Patrick Lange was also using in Kona a Fusion suit with vertical strips on the arms (typical boundary layer management) different from the Fusion used by Talansky, or on the site, or the one I own. Any new model coming from Fusion, or just a "pro only" version ?

The new UCI rules apparently restrict use of "high profile" vortex generator or stripes, but probably still make possible use of some "textured" surface. But the tri world is more open, no restriction here :-)

I bought a sleeved racesuit from wynrepublic, I love it, the material is really nice and it fits well. I am short with a thick torso but it does really well on the swim. It’s pricey, but I enjoy it.

So we currently only see this with:

Huub
Endura
Castelli

I did not know about that.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Not with all models in these brand
The one I know :

Huub Anemoi
Endura QDC D2Z
Castelli PR (to be sold in spring 2019)
Fusion ? Lange did use one, note sur if pro only, or prototype of future model

Maybe some others ?

Bioracer also

The Speedwear concept ?

Yep, that one

the new fusion suit is out on their website:

https://fusionmultisport.com.au/collections/mens/products/sli-speed-suit#

Hello

this one (SLi) is a very good one, but not with the boundary layer management features.
I bough the same one year ago, it is used by many, including Talansky (in different colors).

But the one used by Lange in Kona 2018 is having strips on the sleeves (the BLM features). You can see that on detailed pictures. The SLi currently sold does not have that.

Comparing Talansky pictures from Santa Cruz 2018 and Lange pictures in Kona 2018, you will see the differences in the sleeves.

Logically, Lange working in wind tunnel to go sub 8 hours could not ignore such an improvement :-)

I don't think he got it just because he is who he is, rather the value he brings to the brand, but keep bringing him up to spite him

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Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo

Gottcha, they specifically state its the suit "as worn" by lange last year. Guess it's a bit misleading or they have yet to update the photo.

Lange in Kona 2018 was using this suit but with some custom adaptations : stripped sleeves, color, .... other elements ?

Fair enough to "forget" the "Lange specific customs adaptations" in the website comments on the suit.

Cool

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I have owned two of the older version Fusion speed suits, and have a pair of the newer SLi tri bottoms - all great, and excellent customer service from the company as well. When it's time for me to re-up, I'll probably look at the newer Fusion, and perhaps Castelli and Kiwami depending on what's out by then. I like the design of the Castelli suit that allows it to be fully unzipped.

I sent them an e-mail inquiry in Nov 18 - when I was down to two suits - theirs and a new Kiwami. OwnWay never responded and I bought the Kiwami.

So what sleeved one piece suits are good in the heat and have tested well for drag?

Interesting. My only thought was maybe they were out or busy before thanksgiving. But glad you’re happy with what you got!

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Twitter - Instagram

Good question

Garneau

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blog

That's interesting because I have both the Garneau M2 and Kiwami LD1 and consider the Garneau to be less comfortable in the heat. Since DFW Tri is the one alleging that Kiwami is not good in the heat, I hope to hear what he thinks is ... and why.

No idea whether they are even available in the US, but have a look at Ryzon's Myth. Love mine and it has served me well. As fairly large (close to 2m) but not too heavy (ca. 77kg) I sometimes struggle with sizes but a size M myth fits just perfect. Might be Frodo's input since he's quite tall too and heavily involved in the company.

I ordered both and the small was just slightly better for me, if not a little too tight in the arm pits. I added a Medium Zoot LTD TRI SS Aero Racesuit to the classifieds if anyone is interested:

forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Classifieds_F2/BRAND_NEW_ZOOT_TRI_SUIT_-_M_LTD_TRI_SS_AERO_RACESUIT_-_CAMO_-_Medium_P6847907/

Agreed. Having used my Spiders in 92 and above heat and feeling fine, I tend to feel that statement may not be factual. In fact, the newer Spiders have an ice pocket in the back of the neck.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

I don’t have “facts” to support my statement. It’s my experience. Honestly if you believe the Spider performs well in the heat then I think you heat is not an issue for me as it is for me. Look, I love Kiwami stuff but I don’t find that material very breathable (although great in a swim). As a brand ambassador or sponsor or whatever you are I’m sure you will say that you find it very breathable or whatever-that’s great but it’s not my experience and as a 190+ pound triathlete heat is a major issue for me.

Fair enough. That said, I doubt any of the sleeved suits are going to give you adequate cooling, and most offer little in the area of compression. I've used or seen most of the brands and still go back to the brand I've used even before any affiliation with them. Hope you can find your solution without the "see through" and fragiity I've seen in a lot of the brands.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Yeah, to be fair we are splitting hairs with all these suits; it’s not like there is a suit that will make me blissfully cool on a hot summer day in Texas.

For sure. I could use a bit of that heat here in frozen Wisconsin. Painful!

Hope you find one that fits the bill...

Thx. I'm about 148 at race weight but don't consider myself particularly heat adapted even though I live in Florida; that's why I was interested to hear whether you had found some fast and very breathable suit. I am NOT a brand ambassador for any company (now or ever); but have bought at least 5 Kiwami suits and thought they were all great. I've also had several other brands and liked them too. If you do find something that performs well for you, please post back here!!

I used the no pinz https://www.nopinz.com/...ocoach-trip-trisuit/ for the first race of the season.
The fabric is quite nice and the chamois incredible. They have something attached to the sleeves too to make it faster i imagine. In my version (different colour from these-) it dosn't have any pockets which can be a pain in the ass.

They have really good customer service.

What i didn't like is the fit when i get "race weight ready" as it loosens up a little bit but that is my fitting issue, not the suit.

Would recommend 8/10.

I found the Kiwami to be really hot too. The fabric seemed "heavy" and not as breathable as offerings from other companies.

The "coolest" suit I ever used was the PI Octane. It was like a second skin. Too bad the suit itself is a piece of shit.

Second would be the Fusion suits, then DeSoto, then Garneau, then Kiwami. In my experience.

I use DeSoto mostly because it has better features and quality than other suits, IMO.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Thanks for the feedback on the NoPinz ! It's actually next on my list so super interesting !

Two questions :
- you say incredible Chamois... and I tend to stick to Castelli just for their Kiss tri pad just because I feel more comfortable longer with a Castelli chamois than any other chamois... Can you tell me bit more on the NoPinz chamois ? Is it comfy because no seams and so on, or just like the Castelli because it is slightly thicker while still not hurting run form at all ?

- in term of sizing, how does NoPinz compare to your other suits ?

Same as you, I may ask if one pocket is possible... agree it is possible to ride without (I have a Louis Garneau M2 when I'm not in Castelli... and I do "survive" races without pockets ;-)) ) but it's just more comfortable to be able to have something in the back, for me mostly for running (as they are other aero options to carry stuff on the bike) as I don't like keeping nutrition in my hands while running...

Thanks a lot in advance for your kind help !

My experience with NoPinz was terrible on the other hand.

The short version: asked them if they could make a version with a front zipper (full custom to my measurements), reply was yes no problem. After several missed deadlines the suit arrives, ill fitting and with a road pad. After ages the second suit arrives, not with the fabric types we had discussed and so tight that I could not close the zipper. The custom trip socks I had also ordered never arrived.

In mid June I got my money back via Paypal. I paid at the beginning of February. You can judge fit for yourself based on the pictures https://www.flickr.com/...ts/72157697387397745

It’s funny how people are ripping on Pactimo (American Company), yet many others are pimping NoPinz. I’m grateful the Pactimo kits I’ve bought have fit great. That NoPinz fit is really awful.

just fyi, our Spider2 collection will be unveiled on March 1st; some very nice improvements.

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Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

5 days away!!! Thats always been a suit I liked, tested well. Complaint of spider one was how it was it the heat I think? Can you provided any pre release info???????

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Not 5 days away when its February!

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Sssshhhh! I'm doing no alcohol on Feb 29, 30, and 31st.

On that note does anyone know when the Zoot 2019 collection will drop?

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Exactly!!!!!

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Will we be able to do "custom" as well to?

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Not sure why I am seeing this post so late in the game, but we at De Soto Sport do custom trisuits too. If interested PM or email me for details.

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Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com

Emilio, I always greatly appreciate all your contributions here! I have never personally tested out your kits like I have with LG and the Spider, I know both those test fast for me. I know everything test differently on different people, but have you done any testing that you can share?

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Is it the March 1st yet?

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Thanks for your kind words. It might be time for me to let the rabbit out of the hat and open the can of worms or Pandora's box, and maybe I will do it in a separate post, but I cannot disclose the results of my testing other than to say this, which I will premise by stating it with all the respect due to you and anyone else who reads this:

I believe there is one factor or variable, that you have not thought about when searching for the ultimate trisuit.

So with that, please, can you share with me what testing variables you used that tested both the brands to your satisfaction? I do not need to see the results.

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Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com

Darn. I've been racing in the sleeveless Spider LD1 and just ordered the sleeved version in November for IM Frankfurt and Kona this season :( Wish I would have known this was coming.

Tested in the tunnel last month. Velotec and Bioracer were the fastest for me equally for my full TT setup. The Velotec tri suit was almost as fast as the flat out TT skinsuits so I will be racing IM in that. Velotec tri suit beat out the tri offerings from Kiwami, Voler, NoPinz, Bioracer and Castelli.

Its been a few years since I tested. I tested with Jim / ERO at the velodrome in LA. We tested a PI Tri top, Spider 1 Sleeved, LG sleeved. We kept everything the same expect for switching out suits we where testing, 3 runs per suit. Then went back and did one more extra run LG vs Spider. Testing btw those 2 was tight.

One thing I have always wondered about is how suits test directly out of the water, but racing long distance after a few miles suits seem to dry out fast.

The M2 LG suit did not have very usable pockets vs the Spider which had much better pockets.

I have been racing in LG Sleeved suit since 2016.

Main factors I am using this year when looking at suits: Can I go custom for sponsors logo's (since I have no team affiliation this year), is it testing fast (hard question to answer so have to make a educated guess), are the pockets usable. Comfort I am assuming will be good with all.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

We can provide you with your three main factors!

1. Custom? Yes
2. Testing fast? Yes
3. Are the pockets usable? Very!

Email or PM me for details.

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Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com

Yep, everything Velotec seems to be testing fast. It's just great clothing, and very well made. How they're doing it for that price I don't know.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

You will have to re-test with Spider2 and Castelli PR when they are available, matter of week for both, probably :-)

I was wondering about the Castelli PR suit. It was not in the 2019 catalog and thought it may not get launched until 2020. Do you have info that would suggest we will def see it this year for the consumer?

Thanks

The Kiwami was far enough behind that I don't have much interest in checking out the Spider 2. I can wait until next season. I didn't test the Castelli PR protos, but the proto has been tested on someone else against the Bioracer. The Bioracer won out. So no interest there even if it gets "improved" for production. No more tunnel time for me this year. :)

Should have mine very soon

just as an aside, doesnt Stolen Goat use bioracer for their tri kit? They are well priced on wiggle. I just bought a castelli all out speed suit. Im not sure on it yet. The sleeves dont feel tight. Like they would sag when wet. They are the longest sleeves iv ever seen on a suit though!

They announced spring 2019

It was 20° Celsius in Paris and 27° in some places in the Pyrenees two days ago, but technically we are not yet in spring.
I suppose it will be available from April/May 2019.

At what speed did you test ?
Do you also know the speed of the Castelli vs Bioracer ?

I'm asking the question as the performance depend on speed. Different boundary layer management techniques will trigger their best at different speed.

The figure attached show clearly this effect.

Personally, I prefer a drag crisis earlier (slower speed), even if less pronounced. A suit working above 43 Km/h is of little interest for me.

good points and table
do you have a link for the full document by any chance

Here is the link : https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S0141029617300974
But not available publicly, you have to pay. It is on tubular sections.

For my arms, left of the graph (8x10exp4 Reynolds) is equivalent to 42km/h.

This paper is available, on the "V" style vortex generator developed for London 2012 british athletes (running), and then used by Endura, for exemple on the suit used by Tim Don in Kona 2018 for exemple :

https://core.ac.uk/...oad/pdf/82244006.pdf

When you look to Tim in Kona 2018 pictures, the V shapes are clearly visible on the sleeves.
Same way the stripes on Wurf (Castelli PR) or Lange (custom Fusion) sleeves, similar to the one studied on the graph I posted initially.

Typically these vortex generators are now banned by UCI. But not by WTC. And clearly you can do many things in the UCI 1mm irregularity limit :-)

too bad they're only selling XXS and XXL right now...

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Reference is in post #100

Yes, in this case we really need CdA tested at different speed.

For a bike, or a "standard" suit, CdA is not dependent of speed.
For "boundary layer management" suits, such as Bioracer, Spider 2, PR, ... CdA is REALLY speed dependent.

A test with no mention of speed is worthless
A test with a speed above your real race pace is pretty much worthless (for you)

Here is the new Kiwami Spider 2

https://www.kiwamitri.com/spider-2-ld-aero-p/spid2lda.htm

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Nice looking suit but....

Why, why, why doesn't every men's tri suit manufacturer not follow DeSoto's lead and use their own version of DeSoto's FliSuit feature?

It's such an obvious and simply brilliant feature.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

FliSuit?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Nice! Any idea if DesertDude had a hand in this effort?

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

https://www.desotosport.com/...orza-flisuit-sleeved

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

The FliSuit really is genius. I love mine. Just got my new Forza FliSuit in Graphite Sparkle. Looks great. Fits great. Comfortable.

I've sworn by their Forza shorts in the past. You can't feel the chamois when running, and it has enough padding for me up through 70.3 distance. (For IM, I can spare an extra 15 seconds to switch from proper cycling shorts to dry running shorts).

I completely agree...I even inquired with one custom manufacturer about adding a similar feature to a custom made suit....and they were like wow, that’s a great idea and maybe we will look into that but it never came to fruition.

I think De Sotos biggest strength May be taking seemingly simple, practical ideas and using them in their products.

A solution to a problem that does not exist. Ever see a top pro or any good amateur stop to pee? A feature waiting to go wrong IMO, but I'm biased.

I don’t follow pros around all day but yes, I’m quite confident they have stopped to pee before even if only in a training session.

De Soto have the same product in tri bibs. You’ve never had to do the awkward bib pull down on a training ride??

Yes, you are biased. I don’t even have this suit but this feature is genius and very practical.

Wait until you come flopping out.... ;-)

As the great team director has said many times, we pee on the bike.

It’s designed to avoid that; peeing on the bike indoors really is next level. Good for you!

LOL! Do you use your race wheels indoor too and aero helmet? Get real and think before you type.

 I wear bike or tri clothes indoors. That includes bibs sometimes. But I often have to pee during longer rides indoors. I’m not a pro so I use a toilet. If I had the de Soto bib with Fli, life would be a litte easier. It’s a neat idea that I don’t think any other companies use.

I know you are compensated to be a Kiwami Mafia member but sometimes other companies do things well too. It ok to acknowledge that or at least not attack them. I like Kiwami. And De Soto. And some other brands. They all have pros and cons and a place in the marketplace .

I have both but have to say the Kiwami spider pulls down so easy there is no need for the fly. I have my Desoto slowtwitch suit with the fly and it’s a great suit but the fly is a little hard (hehe) to use when you’re unfolding the wang...plus the angle always leaves a few ounces in the chute which tends to release once the turtle goes back into the shell.

Got mine today (Kiwami racing team) and raced last year in the spider sleeved and sleeveless. This new S2 feels amazing. The storage area in the rear is perfect for food on the bike (sadly missing on S1) and the air mesh top has zero wrinkles in the shoulders. I was doing arm circles to feel the restriction in the sleeves for the swim and felt no restriction at all. Plus, I could feel the air moving through the mesh...hope this will mean a cool bike, and even better, cool run in the warmer races.

And black/ white silver looks fricking sweet.

Well done Kiwami

Same here, I have experience on three suits, I like Castelli All Out the best, HUUB Dave Scott also very good but chamois rotated too forward to my taste.

As for Kiwami spider, honestly speaking quite terrible, thick fabric and not fit very well. I cannot believe that no one bothered by the long and thick drawstring cord which has to be tighted up otherwise slip down, I am not sure if any other brand using it in a suit ... ... And you never get chance to know this before purchase since no photo disclose this at all.

Drawstring? I have the spider sleeveless and sleeved. There is no drawstring, nor is the material thick, and it fits really well. Are you sure you're not confusing models or brands?

Thats really a amazing innovation DeSoto has on this one!!!! I love it.

My short list this year would be: Kiwami, De Soto, Lg

Now if I could only find some time to go test.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Why does the Kiwami model have tribal tattoos on his forearm and calf? It seems being tatted is a prerequisite for selling any piece of tri gear these days. I feel like I need to get some ink done this offseason just to be a part of this sport. Nothing against tats, but is the sport really trending this way? I’m surprised the model doesn’t have an enormous hipster beard to match the multiple tattoos.

I'll be racing for Kiwami this year too and I just got my Spider 2. I'm 5'11" and 155-158 and M fits perfectly. Yes, there's a drawstring but it's really unnecessary if your fit is good and if you untie the knot/loop it will just go inside the waist seam and you can forget about it - which is probably why you don't even know it exists :) It's not like your shorts are going to fall off or anything and if that's an issue for someone they are probably wearing the wrong size.

The black panels are more water repellent and could appear to be thick but the rest of the material is extremely light and breathable and I really don't think it's going to be an issue in the heat. I'm in South Florida and I've raced in insane temperatures plenty of times and this looks like it's a non issue in the current design.
The full zip and two piece design is awesome... I probably lost at least 3 minutes at IMAZ and almost cramped up trying to pull my top and sleeves back while running after port-a-potty breaks. I was peeing constantly during that race for some reason :) This feature is a must have for any long distance suit.

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What's your CdA?

I will be in the market for a new tri suit soon, and I’m looking at the Huub Anemoi. Huub are claiming an average 15w saving over their own DS Long Course suit, over a number of different body types and at realistic speeds. Assuming the DS suit wasn’t extremely slow (and is likely no worse than what I have now - a 2 peice Scody outfit), I almost don’t know why anyone who can’t get in to do their own testing wouldn’t get one? An extra 15w sounds good to me!

I realise that different suits test faster on different people, but if getting testing done isn’t an option, assuming that their claims are accurate it seems hard for me to consider anything else, or are some of the other suits in this thread just as fast across a number of different shapes and speeds?

All suits using "boundary layer management" claims the same gains :

BioRacer
Castelli PR
Endura D2Z
Huub Anemoi
...

Then the question is : when will we have a real test (equivalent t "peak aero...") showing resulting CdA at different speed (because drag crisis above 40km/h is of little interest for me).

I’ve seen some recent posts from Aerocoach regarding fabric testing with NoPinz atdifferent speeds.Maybe they’ll test their products against the competition later.

https://www.facebook.com/...22%3A%22R%2312%22%7D

https://www.instagram.com/...achuk/p/BrGWO-ul1zU/

castelli PR is they say optimised for 45km/h which is well beyond my typical speeds... i haven't seen and actual watt saving figure but i expect some claims will be made when it gets released soon.

so it seems as if the anemoi is optimised around 20mph which is sensible but i'm not sure where the 15W comes from! i'm guessing the 24mph figure is actually supposed to be 15.7 and the optimal speed is more around there which is still not unreasonable. figures seem off though as its down to 7.5w @22mph but back up to 9.8w @20mph... maybe testing in different positions relevant to the events or maybe we just shouldn't pay much attention to marketing "data"

Well, the problem is not fits well, have to rely on draw string to keep in place, I had many brand cycling bib shorts as well as ironman suits, all fits me very well, but not spider.
I don't know spider 2, mine should be the lastest version of spide 1. And there is no way you could untie, put in and forget.



Both Castelli and Huub has nothing on your waist, so nothing you need to try to ignore.
You could see what's on your waist.

Looks like you should have gone a size smaller?

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

That draw string is about 1-1.5" on my suit.

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What's your CdA?

Any idea if the chamois has changed? I've been racing in a spider LD aero for the past couple seasons and I really like the fit, the feel of the suit, and the pockets, but I get more chaffed with the Kiwami chamois than in any other suit or shorts I've had. It's not an issue for short course, but gets a little uncomfortable racing halfs and has left me pretty chaffed in fulls and on long rides of 3-4+ hours.

I'm looking to get a new suit for this season and was considering suits from other makers, but the Spider 2 is looking pretty sweet and I know I like everything about it except for the chamois so now I'm back on the fence...

chamois looks the same...what are you using for lubricant? I use Bag Balm as it doesn't wash off the skin in the longer swims.

I rub some body glide on the seams of the chamois, put a little Chamois Butt’r on top of that, and also body glide on me in the areas that tend to get chaffed.

I imagine the issue is that comfort and chaffing are all individual, and it’s probably some combination of me, the chamois, my saddle choice (ISM Attack), and my position. I’ve been willing to accept the amount of chaffing for a couple seasons. That said, I’m happy to pick up some Bag Balm and give it a try!

No, it is just not fit well. Top already quite tight.

In my opinion, it is caused by design, All bib or suits without drawstring actually rely on top to pull bottom half and hold it in place. Suit back is connected 100%, so won't be a problem. However if the front opening too big, the bottom half middle part will drop (law of gravity). If fit tighter, it could maybe hold, but not ideal. Huub resolve this by no front opening (one piece), Castelli resolve this by a small opening (roughly 1/3), Kiwami resolve this by large opening with a drawstring.

Any design has both pros and cons, large opening means easier to take on\off. However, to me, I always choose bib short and suit because of I hate drawstring so much, and I would trade the inconvenience with comfortable.

I am just so suprised no one mention this, I did my homework before pull the trigger, I hope that I could get to know this earlier which is the major reason I write this here hoping it could help others to know better about each design before purchase. For instance, I purchased Huub and chamois is too forward to my tastes, however I still keep it because I know this before purchase, and I know it won't be a deal breaker for me.

Maybe just body type? I have worn a spider 1 and a LG m2 never had this issue at all.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

^^ I think this must be the case. The other suits I have had I have never had that issue. Perhaps a change, but I just looked at my LD1 aero and no drawstring at all, so I'm still of the feeling he's confused. I have had some poor fitting suits, but not since I switched to Kiwami.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

simple answer to this question: the model is a local athlete and a loyal customer. his built is "standard" so perfect for shoots.
now are we going to disqualify him because of the tats? we could but we overlook this. and hope you can as well.
it is in no way a statement from the company.
hope this clarifies the situation : )

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Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

Sorry for the delay on the answer...

No seams, thick, comfortable for 3-4h easy, no issues running (don't notice it).
Regarding customer service: it was a 10 in my case, sorry to hear from other people other things: for example: in Canary Islands tax is different from EU and they refunded quickly the difference / fit wise they also adviced me to go small due to KG and not cm's of fit.

I don't have any other long suits so can't tell.

Having not actually seen the new suit yet, this video was shared by the designers.

https://www.facebook.com/...eos/373663576566773/

Some VERY cool new features, including individually customizable leg and arm lengths.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

I just received the new Fusion SLI suit and it does have the lines on the sleeves. It fits well and feels comfortable, but will race in it this weekend and let you guys know how it performs.

Lots of great info and options on these 6 pages. I'm a fan of the custom Pactimo Summit one-piece sleeved tri suit we did last year and will likely keep that going this year. I saw that Pearl Izumo quietly released an updated Octane suit. I had one of the 2014ish era ones that I wore through 2016 and loved it.




I really like the styling. $350 seems off the mark though.

Strange, they did not updated the pictures on their site ?
Because on the site, no lines on the sleeves. Looks unchanged from last year model (the one I use)

https://fusionworld.com/...-speed-suit-(1).aspx

Agree... I don't have any sort of rippling, wrinkles and baggy areas with my Spider kit.

I don't have any tunnel data or anything scientific... I wear Kiwami as it is my favorite due to fit and comfort.

I can post some pics here latter, but I got the spider 2 4 days before I raced. Love this thing, big back pocket is game changer for me as it gives me ability to carry more calories on race day without any aero penalty. Felt super comfy no wrinkles on the bike. I don't have cda testing on it but I did bike a 2:16 on 207w (I am 5"11 and 162lbs) so its def not slowing me down.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Just want to add my 2 cents worth, I have the Desoto suit:

- It is cool (I am a Brit living and racing in Texas)
- The 'Fli' is a great idea. It detracts from nothing and makes it so much easier. Sure you don't need it, but it is great. That talk above about 'falling out' of it is from someone who has clearly never worn one
- I have not seen the pockets mentioned too much, they're great - they are on the hips rather than around the back, and they are closed so things stay in better
- Mine fits great. Just email them and they'll discuss sizing with you - one to one communication with the company owner. I wanted a colour combination showing as not available, they just said 'no problem, we will make it for you'.

I have not had to use customer service for any issues, but I do get the feeling they'll really look after you

Caveat - its my first 'expensive' trisuit so I don't have any other benchmark. However I am sure I would not look elsewhere either in the future. Id just email Emilio.

Dan

glad you liked the Spider2. would be nice to see pics if you have any.

thank you again,

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Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

Sorry. Had some trouble posting the pic. I thought it was weird too, and surprised when it showed up to have them

In 2018 I trained and raced two 70.3's and a full 140.6 in the Spider LD Aero. Like DFW_Tri I'm a larger triathlete and heat management is very important. I can overheat on a rainy, 70 degree day. I've trained and raced in a lot of different tri suits and the Kiwami LD Aero fits extremely well with zero wrinkling around the shoulders in aero, and the mid-torso and upper leg compression is the best bar-none. The water repellency of the suit is exceptional. Kiwami's customer service is also top-notch and super-responsive. But unfortunately unless it's a cool to cold race, I just plain overheat in this suit and quick. I realize the new LD Aero 2 is more breathable due to "airfluence" material on the arms, upper shoulders and upper back, and I haven't tried it out yet; but, if the main front panel on the torso is the same, it's just too thick and hot for me. The ice pockets are another issue that actually add to the problem, for me. The neck ice pocket is nine inches across on the bottom, 4 inches in width, and the top opening that ice is supposed to enter is 3 inches across. As an athlete who overheats easily, the last thing I want and need extra layers of material. And In none of my races have I ever been able to throw ice behind my back, and have it land in that 3" hole. Just my experience. The two ice pockets on the lower torso part of the kit measure 6" across by 3" deep. In total between all 3 pockets this is a lot of extra material on me that decreases the breathability of the suit, and ice in these lower pockets sitting against my insulated love handles does little for cooling. If I were a leaner body type and did not continually suffer overheating issues, I would very well love these pockets for storage or ice.

This past weekend I raced Eagleman in the Zoot Ultra Tri SS Aero suit and I was blissfully cool. Yes it was an overcast, rainy cool day but I still have overheated in those type of conditions. Crazy, I know, but that's just me. (I'm the only guy at a January 30 degrees, 10-mile road race wearing a tank top with a giant V-shape of sweat at mile 3 in the race photos.) I've also trained with the Zoot Ultra in warmer, humid sunny conditions and the carbon material breathes like none other I've tried. I'm not sure how aerodynamic the suit is, but I went 2:27 for 56 miles on 231W this past weekend.

Unfortunately the Zoot Tri SS doesn't provide very good, if any leg compression (the thigh cuffs are loose and floppy after just a few uses). I wish I could find a sleeved suit with the compression of the Kiwami and the breathability of the Zoot.

I've also use the DeSoto Riviera tri suit which is an "okay" compromise as it's more breathable than Kiwami and more compressive than the Zoot; but I'm still hunting for something that fits me better. The DeSoto shoulders wrinkle like crazy on me and the shorts constantly ride up my thighs. I've also used the 2XU X-vent which breathes and cools very well - love that about the suit; but the compression is almost non-existent so I use it strictly for training.

I'm leaning toward trying a Roka Aero II. I was considering the Castelli All Out Speed Suit, but on their own website that say: "It's not the most flexible for the swim, nor the coolest in the run." So there goes trying that suit.

FWIW, I've done multiple races in the All Out suit, including a 70.3 with a 93* run - I had zero issues on the swim (top up, under my wetsuit) and was 100% comfy on the run (disclaimer - with arm cooler sleeves and ice water head dumps at every aid station). I highly recommend it. I personally found the Kiwami suits to be much less breathable and flexible.

Hmmm... I'll put it back on my list than. Thanks.

They have all sizes back in Stock - I ordered an Elite Aero size L suit plus calf guards a couple of weeks ago. Seems like quality kit and fits (me) very well. Plus they're great to deal with. The cut around the neck is massive, but very comfortable .. no idea whether a tighter cut (like their skinsuits) would be beneficial for aerodynamics.

What do you wear in some other brands? I'm normally a large and their sizing chart makes them seem like more of a Castelli (tighter) fit.

I wear size M in my LG M2 and I'd say the Velotec is marginally tighter, but not to a degree that it would constrain me (192cm, 85kg currently a few kg above race weight). The arms fit very snug, I guess by design.

I don't have a Castelli suit, but found their sizing on other stuff mostly random.

Anyone have any recommendations for sleeved suits under $100? This is my first season with two sprints and a 70.3. Trying to keep costs down, but are there any cheaper suits that work alright?

Thanks again for the feedback. I raced in the Castelli All Out Speed suit yesterday for a local sprint race (wanted to test run it before Tremblant full) and I loved the suit. I wore it (top up) under my wetsuit and felt zero shoulder restriction. It also felt very cool on the Bike and remarkably cool on the Run. Again, as an athlete who runs hot, and overheats easily, this suit was exceptional in keeping me cool. Castelli's marketing dept is not doing the company any favors by claiming their suit isn't the coolest or most flexible because compared to the all the other Tri suits I've donned, it is! (I also saw Cam Wurf is moving from the Roka Aero suit to the Castelli All Out Speed suit...)

The other suit I've been using, and have 10+ long training sessions in hot conditions is the Zoot Ultra Tri SS Aero suit. Zoot claims it's made with a carbon fabric that reduces heat build up... and I find it actually works. The chamois is also made with a carbon fabric and it stays super dry, light and un-noticeable during the run. I wore the suit for Eagleman 70.3 (or rather 69.1 cause swim was cancelled) where it poured rain, and the chamois was still a non-issue on the run; where some other suits chamois rub and chafe me in the rain.

As an athlete who's constantly on the prowl for suits that deal with the heat best, these are the two suits I've found, so far. My only gripe with both these suits is the compression in the thighs is sub-par. Both suits brand new out of the box are loose around the bottom of my quads -- which is disappointing. At 173 pounds, 5' 9.5", former ice hockey player, I don't have small thighs either!! Lol! I've worn a lot of suits with much better leg compression (Kiwami LD Aero 1, DeSoto Riviera) but those suits run hot, in my experience (Kiwami especially) so I'll deal with the the lesser quad compression.

And lastly, I don't know if these suit are more/ or less aerodynamic then other suits I've worn, but I set a PR in two races this year with each suit. Granted my fitness and position are also better than last year. Just my experiment of one, 2 cents worth of hack feedback :-)

I'd find this surprising, as the first time I wore my All Out I could barely get it over my thighs (and they are not big by any stretch). But everyone's morphology is different I suppose. I just wore it again yesterday and the bottom half is still quite compressive, after a year.

Have been using the Desoto Riviera Flisuit for 1.5 seasons and have to say Ive never been impressed with it. When its wet, it feels waterlogged/heavy, the seams inside the bicep area are large and chafe me as does the chamois. Used my new LG Gneer Course suit today and it was a game changer, better in every way. As much as I liked the aesthetics of the Desoto, IMO it is an inferior suit compared to the LG Course

I just got the All Out and have lager thighs than most triathletes

The legs of the suit are very loose at the bottom of the thighs.