I don't stretch (aside from nervous race day stretching), rolled maybe 4-5 times in my life and have had one massage my entire life. No injuries (knock on wood). I say that not as some humble brag or whatever, just that I've never done it and I've been successful.

The few times I have tried my wife's foam roller out it did seem to do 'something' in terms of working my muscles out and I would see the benefit. But I'm lazy, don't care and not rolling hasn't been an issue. I'd say the best thing (for me) has been a varied program and really just listening to my body in terms of when to pull back or when to throw in a swim or an easy day.

Do what works for you.

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________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

I'd be willing to read the "studies coming out now" if you can get them from him. Until then, I'm going to continue to roll.

So he does some 'dry needling' and then goes on to tell you not to do it yourself? I think I'd give his 'advice' a pass!

😂I lol'd, well done

https://scientifictriathlon.com/tts141/

Foam rolling does something. But the real question is do you in a situation where you even need it. An acme brick does something. Do you need it?

going out on a limb and guessing that you inadvertently left out a bit of stuff so keep that in mind with this reply.

Rolling the IT band itself won't do a damn bit of good as it'd be akin to trying to stretch your seatbelt. As you've probably read most ITB issues originate elsewhere and diagnosing/treating these issues is really what you want to get at. I'll leave that part alone.

That said, I don't think you'll find anyone who says that foam rolling is a waste of time. Many people spend a minute going up and down their legs without really doing anything and think they're helping. I was taught to roll before I do my static and dynamic stretching but the for the lower body rolling part I spend 10-15 minutes easily starting at the hips finding trigger points and working them out either with the roller (4" pvc) or the softball/lacrosse. After a rough weekend it'll approach 20 min. Definitely not a strict substitute for a good massage but it keeps things working between appointments.

Whenever I feel like I need to roll, I roll. Then I feel better afterward. But I'm not on some daily rolling routine or anything like that...just as-needed.

I had some it band issues a few years back, got worse & worse until I started rolling. Cleared up pretty quickly after that & it's not returned (however I do keep rolling).

Had a similar experience with an angry glute medius.

Why it works I've no idea, maybe it loosens muscles, maybe the pain whilst rolling helps to accelerate healing, either way it seems to do something.

"Foam rolling isn’t just a workout—it’s a lifestyle."

https://bunnyears.com/...-50mph-hana-michels/

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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

There is very little evidence to support that chiro spinal manipulation does anything positive.

That's about tje same as my sports physio told me.
The IT band itself is FAR too strong and stiff in the longitudinal direction for rollering to do anything (but hurt).

But rollering good for muscles normally. Tho agsin as you state, not on an injury as it just worsens the damage.

This.

I also do not stretch or foam roll. Went through 10 months of 18+ hours per week IM training this year w/o stretching or rolling once.

Made it through just fine

In the past, the only time I ever got injured was when I stretched. So I stopped stretching.

http://
Yep third on this. Agree that the physio is right in that rolling the it band is pointless and there is probably no where you could roll to help the band as it needs more concentrated release to get the right area.

Blanket saying rolling is not effective seems like the OP misunderstood what the therapist was saying.

Aren’t chiros quacks?

My exact reaction. He's telling OP not to do things at home that could help, but instead go and see him.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC4637917/

Good survey paper there. Some possible marginal recovery benefits. Though not enough to motivate me to invest the time, generally.

If using a foam rolling to roll the IT band, yes it is ineffective. The IT band is far too dense for the foam roller to really do anything. The muscles underneath it, that's a different story.

Foam rolling can be used in a multitude of ways, so my counter question to him would be. What are the studies measuring and what is the goal of using the foam roller?

Mechanism on why it "helps" is a bit unclear, but most evidence/theory points to it reducing the perception of "tightness" neurologically (to put it in layman's terms).

Most experts agree is doesn't "break up" scar tissue or really do anything mechanically to soft tissue.

It's not really a tool to treat injured tissue either. But boy, I sure do have patients walk in my office who roll the hell out of themselves. In the back of my mind I usually think...dang, you should spend that 30 minutes and go run or swim a bit more! :-) Just yesterday, 23yr old trail runner who came into my office had 3-4 bruises all along her lateral thigh...from you guessed it...."rolling out her IT band" . If anything, this set her recovery back!

Is it a horrible tool?...I wouldn't say that...is it this amazing, self treatment tool that can fix or help anything? (which seems to be the perception to some)...no. I usually end up telling folks .."if you think it's REALLY helping you, then use it a little"...but honestly, I end up telling folks they are doing it too much or to chill out with the roller as we discuss where to spend their time recovering.

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CB
Physical Therapist/Endurance Coach
http://www.cadencept.net

For years, I had a daily 30 minute stretching and rolling routine. I thought it was preventing injuries and helping recovery. 2 years ago, I quit cold turkey. Almost exactly one month later, and completely out of the blue (I wasn't training specifically for it), I easily shattered my masters 5K PR, by 40 seconds. I haven't stretched or rolled since, and have continued to train and race as well as ever. I know now, that it wasn't doing anything for me, except give my dogs and excuse to jump all over me.

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Athlinks / Strava

x1000

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Per the link above, the studies have investigated their use in 1) improving joint range of motion, 2) improving muscle recovery and reduction in DOMS, and 3) improving performance.

The 14 studies surveyed indicate some evidence it has at least a marginal effect on 1, 2. But nothing on 3).

Bruising from foam rolling? Sure she's not just an easy bruiser?

I used to roll out a lot, like 10 minutes of kicking my ass before a lift. Now a lot less...I should probably do more especially at night.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

The 14 studies surveyed indicate some evidence it has at least a marginal effect on 1, 2. But nothing on 3).

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Saying it improves muscle recovery but nothing on performance seems kinda wonky because most of the time performance is based purely on the adaptability of the body. So if you improve recovery, you therefore likely give yourself a better chance at performance.

I've also never used the foam roller with "performance" per say as the end goal. It's an "recovery" method to improve the body's adaptability which then translates into performance gains.

So all that is long winded to say if they are finding it to improve muscle recovery that's a big plus in my book. That is how you will get performance gains.

I'm not sure how you measure it directly with "performance" as I've not ever seen those used in a performance setting, it's always been post activity *most* of the time. So sometimes it's one of those they can make a study say anything they want.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

That's correct. The studies were mostly very cursory, and narrowly defined. They didn't attempt to track the effect on long-term adaptation, like you're talking about. Mostly the acute response, using questionnaires rather than objective biomarkers, etc.

The jury is way, way out there, like the New Horizons probe. Just pointing this survey paper out because it's what there is.

It's a good paper, I'm actually reading the entire thing now. It looks like only 3 studies actually tested "performance".

So I get they are testing for the actual performance aspects of foam rolling, I just don't think it's an activity geared towards direct "performance" measurably benefits. I don't know a coach in multisport field that tells athletes to foam roll and then do a activity, it's pretty much the direct opposite.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yep, well executed.

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29 years and counting

Foam Rolling isn't a myth because it is a fact people foam roll. King Arthur and Robin Hood stories are myths because there is no reliable evidence the stories are based on historical fact. It isn't a myth that many triathletes are gullible.

Chiropractice, and Graston therapy are at best pseudoscience.

Foam Rolling is an effective wall painting technique. I've found it faster than using a brush.

^^ This dude gets it


Brian PT

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Brian Coughlan:Physiotherapist:innovationphysio.com:HackTriathlete

He said in absolutely no way should I be rolling out and that a lot of the studies coming out now are showing that it's ineffective. He's incredibly knowledgeable and very skilled, but this took me back. Thoughts?

N=1

I have a wonky left knee - long back story.

I only cycle these days. When I ramp up volume and or intensity, my left knee can get kind of achy. When I roll out the left IT band and side of my leg, with a Trigger Point roller, the achy-ness goes away almost completely the next day. I keep at it for several days, and it tends to stabilize and feel a lot better at that new level of cycling volume.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Mate -

25 years ago - asbestos was safe
50 years ago it was healthy to smoke cigs
100 years ago - it was totally ok to take arsenic
500 years ago - you had a headache and you drilled a hole in your head

Prohibition was a good idea once. Weed was a gateway drug. The earth was flat. The sun was not the center of the universe.

Basically - throughout all the history of mankind - no one has a clue what they are talking about.

If you want to foam roll - then you go ahead and foam roll. We will find out in 80 years if it is actually bad. My guess - is the materials they used to make the roller will give you cancer. That is just a guess though.

Quick notes from my perspective (engineering):

Mechanical Techniques:
1. Needling - Pokes the tissue into a recovery response, ++ more circulation (eg like pricking an inner tube, needs more air!)
2. Hypersphere/roller- Pressure and vibration loosens bound tissue and promotes circulation
3. Foam Rolling - does the same but less depth and more overall or "GT" style.
4. Heat - Softens tissue for better results. Just like applying heat to urethanes or plastics. Basis behind Hot Yoga. I am using a lot of heat these days on my thrashed tissues in combo with 2 &3.
5. Ultra-sound. Another mechanical technique but works sub-surface and really injures and breaks down scarring. I felt a distinct difference using ultrasound. I would be more careful with it.
6. Wrapping with rubber bands - Another good idea that works well on joints like ankles. Same principles as 2-4.
7. Stretching

Electrical
1. I have not been subjected to electrical in years, but a good targeted PT sessions at the gym will accomplish similar results. That is working an affected muscle across its full range, in both directions.

Both my legs, esp quads were a real mess. My left leg is horrible and a work-in-progress. My right leg is functioning very well now. That is after 100's of needles including my back, shoulder, neck, lower legs - head to toe!
The group of "rolling" or mechanical is not enough on its own to rehab. This is in conjunction with variety of use e.g strength work (for circulation and rebuild) and stretching

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

Let me get this straight.....he is sticking needles in you but said don't use a roller?...…(eye roll)

What medical school did your chiropractor go to? Oh, that’s right, they don’t go to med school.

There is no respected college or university in the United States that has a chiropractic department. Stop wasting your time and money.

You’ve confused myths with legends in this post bro.

Interesting point because I went to a podiatrist twice. Paid over $900. Left with the same problem. I went to this guy, and while it's not fixed, it's considerably better.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

But you're a Spartan that smokes weed..oh and youre an n of 1 too

Well, Podiatrists don’t go to medical school either.

Well, podiatrists do not go to medical school either.

Look up the definition of ' myth ' in the Oxford dictionary. I'm playing with the different meanings.

Graston is just a more extreme version of foam rolling!! Instead of foam your using metal to break up the fascia, tissue and muscle. They're both within the same family type and philosophy of treatment!

Sounds to me like your sports chiro may view people foam rolling at home as competition. He'd rather you come into the office, if you get what I mean.

Is foam rolling going to go the way of compression socks?

Firstly I am amazed that people still go to Chiros. There is not credible evidence to suggest what they do (manipulation) has any positive effect at all. “Come back twice a week for four weeks”... um, why? Recondition the body, not manipulate it.
Secondly, foam rolling does little, and there is a fair bit of research coming out in the industry (Physio and Sports Science) that reports this. I’m a Sports Scientist and have rolled for years. But there evidence is there to suggest it doesn’t do much.
If you want to get rid of ITB, get your hips strong. Strengthen your glutes, and ensure they are strong enough that when you do a single leg squat your knee doesn’t internally rotate, or opposite hip drops.
Strength and conditioning is the answer. As the famous Physio Adam Meakins says “ you can’t go wrong with getting strong”.
Just my two bobs worth, but would like to think it is base dof the latest evidence available.

My two cents, as a guy who has a bachelors degree in exercise physiology. Although it’s been 6 years since I graduated and 2 years since I’ve worked in the field.

Technically speaking there is no correlation between stretching and sports performance or injury prevention (assuming you’re not a gymnast or a hockey goalie that needs hyper flexibility).

Foam rolling has been shown to increase flexibility at least as much as proper static stretching, and can be done on cold muscles.

Foam rolling in apparently healthy adults has no (or at least very little) risk of injury provided there isn’t some underlying conditions that would result in such like easy bruising in anemia or osteoporosis.

Overlooked area of training the psychology of it. If it makes you feel better (which with everyone I’ve ever worked with or known that has foam rolled it does) do it. It’s so low risk might as well have fun with it. I always feel like a new man when I get up.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

I just realized this yesterday. I've never been able to do single leg squats, but I want to work my way to doing them. I started sitting on a bench, holding a counterweight in front of me. I would use one leg to get up. It was fairly difficult and what I noticed is exactly what you have described—my left knee rotated internally pretty severely. I will definitely be adding these in addition to single leg deadlifts, clam shells, lying hip abductions.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

probably, Research 10 years ago says the same thins as now, it's likely a waste.

I haven't personally done it in about 10 years and i've never been healthier.

Ehhh.... to use this to argue that no one knows anything about anything then medical treatments and surgeries would not work, airplanes would not fly, my microwave would not be able to heat up hot pockets... we'd all just be cave men with a bunch of useless ineffective gadgets.

That being said, while I am not a frequent roller, I suspect that it does help loosen muscles and reduce associated pain and discomfort from that, and that there are things we think we know that we do not and lots of flawed scientific studies.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

No, it is not a myth. You can buy these hard-foam cylinders and use them on your muscles. Kinda cool. Check them out in real life.

I was about to say in regards to the stretching - I was a gymnast for over 15 years...and if you didnt stretch - you got hurt haha but then I read the last part of your sentence. Well played lol

A few PTs in Michigan have told me the same thing. Makes sense.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

It must be a damn good placebo then 'cause it works for me.

Why did you go to chiro? Aren't they only about spine? Maybe you should visit a sports physio? I did have IT band issues way back, rolling did help. Having said that, I have no black and whits scientific evidence that it was the rolling and nothing else that helped in a way that internet forum communities often demand to know :-)

As a few other people have said, rolling your IT band itself may not help with the issue. You can roll your glutes (or hit them with a lacrosse ball!) and that will sometimes help release the IT band as well. There's a muscle that is layered in with the IT Band called the Tensor Fascia latae and sometimes rolling to release this will help too. As for general rolling, I find it helpful, especially as someone who is not the most flexible. Both rolling and stretching (especially after workouts) have kept me healthy!

Fully respecting what I'm about to say is anecdotal, but:

After dealing with ITBS for a while, and stretching and strengthening like crazy, I was going mad with the inability to make progress. I was aware of rolling, but sort of had it in my mind it was snake oil, for reasons I don't remember. Anyway, something prompted me to try it. My god, I have never felt pain from a non injury like that before, and I made some crazy noises. It was like every muscle in my upper leg released. Over 2 sessions one night, my ITBS was completely banished. I still do stretching, rolling, and strengthening as prevention, but it absolutely directly solved the problems I was having. My leg muscles were crazy tight.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

It's the other way around. Foam rolling's effectiveness is supported by science whereas chiropraxia is not.
The irony is...funny or sad. Not sure.

https://scholar.google.com/...Foam+roller+recovery

I try to roll out daily and can feel the difference in my recovery when I don’t. It only takes couple mins. I have a love / hate relationship with it.

"Supported by science" or the contrary should not be religion. In today's world only what gets funded is tested scientifically, and that makes it biased. In addition, most studies are a statistical joke at best. With n=10 or the likes, you are hardly going to prove anything relevant.

In issues like foam rolling, it's so cheap, just try it. If it works just keep on doing it. If it doesn't you've lost a couple dollars and some minutes. If it's a placebo, great! Placebo has no known side effects.

It's literally the opposite of religion. Science is knowledge. The available body of science overwhelmingly says chiropraxia is BS while supporting the foam rolling.

Sometimes, but not always. Many "scientific studies" are not worth the paper they are printed on. A study on whatever with n=10-30 being all from the same community, proves next to nothing most of the times. Most if not all studies on matters that affect this forum fall in that category. It's essentially business backed religion disguised as science.

That’s taking for granted there aren’t any negative consequences, like agitating the muscle and slowing recovery time.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

It could be, it just is going to cost you a couple of dollars and a few minutes to find out. Nothing you are not going to recover from. That's for sure. So worst case is you are a couple of dollars shorter, have waste a few minutes from your life and are going to recover 1-2 days slower than usual. The risk maybe worth trying.

I'm willing to go as far as to say that foam rolling is fucking inept coping. Dry needling and graston as well. It's hopelessly worthless. One needs a proper rehab plan, not some quack who hurts you with metal spoons and thin needles. And a proper rehab plan does not incorporate hurting yourself with a roller; likely you hurt yourself because of inability to tolerate load and foam rolling does nothing for this.

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

What would you say to someone who hasn't been able to run since December 25th, who has been rolling, using a lacrosse ball to dig into their glutes, hammies, quads, got dry needled, got a deep tissue massage, has been doing lying hip abduction exercises and single leg dead lifts and single leg squats to improve hip mobility and strength, and is still under excruciating pain when they merely walk from their car to their office?

I don't know what more I can do.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

1) That you're a common example of how foam rollers/balls/rollers DON'T work to treat injured tissue

2) That you likely haven't had a proper clinical exam and are playing Dr Google.

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CB
Physical Therapist/Endurance Coach
http://www.cadencept.net

Who should I go to in order to receive a proper diagnosis?

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Ask around for a "word of mouth" referral, preferably someone who knows endurance athletes and is going to perform a thorough clinical exam (as in spend time with you and watch you move). May be an MD, may be a PT, depends what is in your area.

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CB
Physical Therapist/Endurance Coach
http://www.cadencept.net