If you use virtual training programs such as Trainer Road, Zwift, or The Sufferfest, enter that value into your profile, and your workouts will then be scaled according to your ability.

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Less is more.

Ok. Thanks. I use Rouvey. It gave the option to enter the FTP, so I guess that is what that was for. Thanks!

If you want to understand why you're doing what you're doing read two of the following options:

Phil Skiba's Book (one of my favorites)
Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan's Book

If you want to just ride your bike and let the trainer do the work. Sign up for TrainerRoad, pick a plan, connect your smart trainer, and pedal. Their programs are amazing, affordable, and well thought out.

I personally think a smart trainer and TrainerRoad is the best thing that ever happened to my cycling.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

[/quote][/font]

If you want to understand why you're doing what you're doing read two of the following options:

Phil Skiba's Book (one of my favorites)
Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan's Book

If you want to just ride your bike and let the trainer do the work. Sign up for TrainerRoad, pick a plan, connect your smart trainer, and pedal. Their programs are amazing, affordable, and well thought out.

I personally think a smart trainer and TrainerRoad is the best thing that ever happened to my cycling.

[/quote]
Thanks Chris. I've already paid for a year of Rouvey. I'm guessing it has a similar functionality. I'll have to see.

Buy, either book, do some testing. Not only FTP, but if doing shorter efforts you may be better suited to running at a percentage of those powers rather than a percentage of FTP. Like 5min efforts. I do intervals (incomplete recovery between reps) at 85% of my 5 min power and efforts (full recovery between reps) at 95%. At the end of a block I test 5min power again. Rouvy has various FTP and Ramp Tests which are an easy way to estimate both Max Aerobic Power (MAP) and Threshold Power. Don't get too hung up on the numbers and enjoy the ride. Except the Stelvio, that hurts.

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Hamish Ferguson: Cycling Coach

How did you do your FTP. Are you confident 238W is correct. There is a lot of discussion going around on how to measure FTP.

You can use zones based on FTP as a starting power for your intervals, for example, 4 x 8 at 100% FTP and 4 x 4 at 120% FTP. You'll want to find, however, the maximum power that you can sustain for these intervals and work at that power. So if you do a 4 x 4 workout at 300W but are able to do 5 intervals then you need to increase power for your next workout such that you are just able to complete 4 intervals. Same thing for the 4 x 8 workout. It needs to be hard. Your "FTP" doesn't matter. Getting the right stimulus does. For sub-threshold work, you can use a percent of the power you are using for your 4 x 8 intervals as if that is your FTP. Now just increase the power of your 4 x 4 and 4 x 8 workouts as you get stronger and crush the competition or your PB.

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Interval Design Studio
YouTube | SoundCloud

Do yourself a massive favor and read “training and racing with a power meter” by Hunter Allen. Pretty cheap on amazon. Easy read and doesn’t take super long to get through. I promise you will get infinitely more from your new toy if you read this book. Trust me.

Set your power/HR zones.
Get a training plan to maximize your ride time by power to improve and get ready for your races.

That's the simple answer...

The real answer is smartly incorporating power work into your overall training plan based on your race schedule to increase power and decrease the work that needs to go into creating more power.

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

I actually strongly feel that just getting trainerroad and doing one of the plans is a lot more useful than that book.

You will learn by doing the workouts and feeling the difficulty and impact which I found 100x more useful than just reading about it.

Trainerroad literally does all the heavy lifting of planning and detailing a power based plan. You just have choose the goal and then do it.

But reading the book + a trainer road plan = better than either individually.

For most people I'd probably recommend Skiba's books over TRWAPM for ease of understanding.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I agree, just start doing something and learn as you go.

TR or someone else's plan that is threshold or under is a good way to start. Starting off with 4 to 6 weeks of easy (~65%) before doing that is another.

I mean that may be true but if you spend all that money on a power meter why wouldn’t you want to actually understand how to use it? What about folks that actually train outside?

I read that Skiba book. Sure, it has good scientific content, but again, that's a world a difference between executing your self-made plan than writing it. I wrote myself a mini plan or two initially, and then was quite humbled when I found that it's harder to walk the walk than talk the talk.

Don't get me wrong - if you get the book, you also can't go wrong by learning the theory, but again, if I had to do it again, I'd just skip the book and do TR. Knowing full well what "300 TSS in a week" feels like, or how hard "120% FTP x 8" was way more useful as a solo athlete than the theory.

The TR plans are just so easy and diverse to just 'set it'. I def think this is the best way to start (and in my case continue using long-term) with true power-based training with a plan.

If you're dead set on writing your own plans, then sure, go crazy with Skiba etc but prepare for some work and questions about your plan.

Basically 99% true. Most athletes who own a pm or use one have zero understanding or desire on how to use a power meter.

People on ST are generally the exception in terms of wanting to learn asking questions etc.

No disrespect to OP as he’s asking questions.

Maybe I’m jaded or perhaps exaggerating,

Maurice

Wait, you don't know what FTP means? It's time to hit the books or do some serious Googling. There are tons of useful videos on YouTube also.

Welcome to the club, what took you so long?!!!!

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I've never used Rouvey, but it looks like you can either follow routes as movies or do structured workouts.
If you are simply riding along and watching a climb, your entered FTP may not be doing anything, since you are completely in control of the effort.
If you do a structured workout, then I bet it will scale it to your FTP.

FTP is dead.

Just saying this to get AC back posting here😀

Cheers,
Maurice

Measuring FTP is easy, estimating it is where the quagmire sets in.

Training is a highly personal matter which is why load management is so important. Fortunately, the precision and repeatability of training with fixed power under controlled conditions indoors makes it possible to monitor training status with a high degree of accuracy and confidence because changes in performance are more likely to be caused by actual changes in status vs changes in terrain, conditions, etc.

Repeats are also very effective because (1) of their direct alignment with time at intensity, which is how training is organized and (2) they can help you to ensure proper stimulus and diagnose problems. For example, if you set out to perform a 4 x 4 VO2 max workout but are actually able to do 5 x 4, then you are working below VO2 max and should increase power for the next 4 x 4 session. On the flip side, if you are unable to perform a 2 x 20 workout at threshold then your threshold is overestimated, you are ill, or you are carrying much fatigue.

Manual control also helps to ensure proper stimulus and preserve workout quality through adding, extending and splitting intervals as needed.

The ability to measure and control external load indoors on a smart trainer makes the internal-to-external load ratio (I:E) an effective method of load monitoring. If I:E decreases, then fitness is improving. If it increases, then fitness is declining or fatigue is high. If RPE or cardiac drift is up but HR is down then fatigue is more likely than fitness improvement. The precision and repeatability of smart trainer workouts makes I:E more precise and sensitive than it would be outdoors where you need consistent improvement over a long period of time to be confident in improvements.

Workout progression can be "forced" or responsive based on improvements. If "forced" then load monitoring can be used to ensure the body is coping/adapting adequately.

Work can be progressed by either time or power. Most training plans I've see are simply increasing combined interval duration to a practical limit, usually available training time, and then increasing intensity. MSI, or Maximum Sustainable Intensity, is a self-regulating technique in which a fixed set of interval workouts are repeated while increasing power such that the power used is the maximum power that can be sustained for all intervals. RPE is king with MSI but can also be confirmed via average work interval heart rate and cardiac drift as discussed above.

Cardiac drift can also help to set proper endurance workout duration because there is a rule of thumb that these workouts should have a cardiac drift (the indoor equivalent of aerobic decoupling) between 5-10%. And when duration reaches target event duration (or target training duration) and cardiac drift is 5-7% then the athlete is ready for higher intensity work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX9R8Kh10KM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GszrIXnVgCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFyvZXbhXqk

A training log is an essential part of training to find what works and what doesn't, identify patterns, for reference, to help those who help you, etc.

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Interval Design Studio
YouTube | SoundCloud

Thanks for all that information. Pretty much cements the fact that I need to get one of the books listed and read up, because I didn't understand almost ANYTHING you just said!!

One should note that these books are great and full of meaningful information, but do not include training plans. They do, however, give you the tools to understand whatever training plan you land on and make informed decisions regarding benefits, changes to the plans, and bore any other non-athlete to death at cocktail parties.

Etip wrote:

Thanks for all that information. Pretty much cements the fact that I need to get one of the books listed and read up, because I didn't understand almost ANYTHING you just said!!

Sorry 'bout that! I just re-read what I wrote and agree with you! Let me try to be more practical.

Question = What do I do with FTP?

Answer:

1) Use it as a starting place for 4 x 8 intervals with the goal of finding and working at the maximum power that you can produce for all four intervals.

2) Use 115% of it as as a starting place for 4 x 4 intervals with the goal of finding and working at the maximum power that you can produce for all four intervals.

3) Use 75% of it as a starting place for a once-weekly 1 x 90 endurance workout with the goal of finding and working at the power which will produce a cardiac drift of 5-10%.

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Interval Design Studio
YouTube | SoundCloud

This is great info- succinct and clear. Thank you!!!

1. I did that last spring on the bike and run and it worked well for me.
2. I did that on my way to 5X5 on the bike and it worked well too.
3. Some may think that's a little high for endurance zone but different things work for different people. I'm more of 55% of Power at VO2max.

You're welcome. And thank you too. I'm sure some would see that and not respond but you did so I learned something also about how to communicate :)

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Interval Design Studio
YouTube | SoundCloud

Regarding number 3 it's totally different than zone-based and based mainly on a compromise between time and power and also prescriptive for purposes of clarity but the thinking goes like this:

• If you have only 90 minutes of time to workout then 55% might not be adequate to provide stimulus
• Ideally, you would be able to ride long enough such that 55% produces a cardiac drift of 5-10%
• In my case, for example, my target event duration is two hours so...


• when I can ride two hours I'll ride two hours and, for example, 55% might produce a 5-10% drift...
• ...but if I only have 90 minutes to ride then I'll up the power to get a decent stimulus...


• ...and this is the scenario I recommend for a simple plan because I figure two hours is a popular target event duration for many cyclists...


• ...but many only have 90 minutes to train or can only tolerate 90 minutes indoors and indoor training is my specialty
• ...but of course those who can ride their full target event duration will want to do that

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Interval Design Studio
YouTube | SoundCloud

There can be arguments made both ways about what's best to do with 90 minutes of training time. I see your point but I know it's not for everyone.

Yeah I'm not arguing because it's my prescription so there can't be an argument :)

To clarify, though, because I'm curious, are you saying that you would still do 55% for 90 minutes if target event duration was two hours?

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Interval Design Studio
YouTube | SoundCloud

The 55% is a minimum needed to stimulate improvement. If the goal is to stimulate improvement in endurance with time in the saddle then there isn't a lot to be gained to go much over that if you have stimulants in other sessions during the week such as threshold and VO2max work.

Now if all you were doing were easy sessions and trying to maximize your abilities with the time provided then 75% or more would probably be a good idea. Then it also depends on if you respond to time or intensity. This blog post got me thinking about this recently:

https://alancouzens.com/...l_int_responder.html

Insert folks who do 80mi paceline rides on weekends to only net 45min above 55%. If that.

You guys realize you are mixing systems, right? 55% of pVO2max vs. 75% FTP? Those two intensities are not as far apart from each other as other readers might think. Relating both to FTP (assuming pVO2max = 120% FTP) , you're really talking about 65% vs. 75% (within the width of a brick). Both of those are still within Coggan Level 2 (barely). So, you are really talking about lower z2 vs upper z2.

Yes I believe I stated 55 percent of vo2max. Seen in post 28.
I used the 75 percent like fstrnu used it, as percent threshold.

For me they are about 25 wats difference

Ok. I figured that you did. But, the OP (specifically) who just conducted his first ever FTP test....might not pick up on that variation...and presumably has no idea what his pVO2max actually is. Nor how to translate between the two coordinate systems.

Its about 20 watts for me: 145 to 165. But, both are powers that I might target for a z2 ride, depending on which part of the season we are talking. Generally starting in the 145-150 range early in the season, and elevating up to the 160-165 range as summer gets into full swing. But, both powers are roughly in the same general training zone, and will elicit the same general adaptations....with magnitude of adaptation being driven mostly by total accumulated TSS.

I found that article by Alan interesting. There are some things that bug me about it...but, I can't quite put my finger on it, yet. Something makes me feel that everything isn't as separable as it implies. I also thought it was interesting that the lower-right quadrant (volume-but-not-intensity) was completely unpopulated.

Yes, you are right about them being so close and I should have emphasized those differences between VO2max and Threshold percentages.

I've been following the discussion about Alan's blog post on the wattage and cycling physiology groups. There's some high class bitching going on there but some good discussion as well.

Yes, but I was allowing for that because my 75% FTP number is just a starting place so it could go higher if drift is < 5% so jeretj's point may still be valid if I can understand it better. There are benefits into Tempo like fatigue resistance, etc., especially for athletes who are time limited vs recovery limited so I was exploring to see where it goes.

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Interval Design Studio
YouTube | SoundCloud