Tough to beat BMC with Küng, TvG and Dennis. The last 400m is a 9% grade and that’ll be interesting to see how teams sprint it out. Top three:
BMC
Sunweb
Quickstep

I think the Panzerwagen and Dowsett shovel some coal into the furnace at Katusha.

Katusha
BMC
Sky

Sunweb
BMC
Katoosh

QS has real firepower too.
QS, Sunweb, BMC

I can't see anyone beating BMC this year.

BMC
Quickstep
Sunweb

In 2012, they went up the Cauberg. TJ pushed way too high a pace and one rider was dropped. That probably cost them a few seconds. Hopefully they are wiser this gime around

that finish is why i went with Sunweb

this would be my choices also - throw Lotto-J in as wildcard

Yeah, TD, Kelderman and Anderson easily match BMC’s trio, and Matthews is an exception TTTer. I’m changing pick to:
Sunweb
QS
BMC

Never was really interested in the TTT from a prediction perspective. The course for the men does look to have some action in there. There's even a short and very steep descent that may create some pucker factor riding together on TT bikes.

Porte out of road race, but not sure he was ever a contender.

Reading up on the road course it could favor anyone from GT climber to Ardennes specialist. Gotta think the latter will be better suited for distance, positioning and shorter but super steep ramps. Hard to look past Alaphilippe, Valverde and even Gilbert given his experience. Also looks like Sagan and GvA could have a chance if they have great day.

that last hill is just a bit too long/steep for the Gilbert types

people who have done well recently at San Sebastian should do well, for it also features a brutishly steep (albeit shorter) climb that tops out with about 8 km to go

I'm excited about next year's TTT, with the 6 person men's-women's combined national team format. Should be really good for the U.S. I can imagine like Quintana / Taylor Phinney / Rosskopf (McNulty?) as the men's team with, say, Wiles/Stephens/Dygert. That would be hard to beat. The Dutch might be the favorite with Dumoulin/Kelderman, and the Dutch women being a juggernaut with Vleuten/Breggen/Dijk (skipping all the 'vans' and 'ders')

But I'm getting a year ahead of this thread. Sorry.

Alaphilippe is my pick. He's got the whole package for this course and is on form.

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

My guess is it’s between him, Kwiatkowski and Valverde.

Yeah, all that plus a great team (assuming Guimard can get them to work together). Bardet and Pinot are legitimate contenders themselves, Rolland is quite a climber when he's in form, and Gallopin is a good candidate to either go in the break or bring it back.

How fried do you think Kwiatkowski's and Valeverde's legs will be after the TdF + Vuelta double. It seems Alaphillippe should have had more non racing days?

The coed ttt should be cool. How to keep the group together, who drops when...pretty intruiging....

I think Rolland is a good dark horse, Woods, too. A Yates ( maybe both) will hang on the final 20+ percenter on Holl. I think someone gaps at the top but gets caught then a small, maybe 4 man group goes to the line.
I keep thinking Roglic factors, but what’s he been up to lately? And Sagan will be compelling, maybe a dramatic attack, but fall short. Would love to see him survive and have a legit shot on the descent before the line. Dan Martin? Tough as nails and can hang on too. He’s a guy that should sport the rainbow jersey.
Larry Warbasse signed with Ag2r. That’s cool.

This will be interesting. Kwiatkowski and Valverde are very similar, both can climb well and have very good sprints. A rider like Aalphillippe does not want to bring either of these riders to the line (he can sprint reasonably well but not against valverde). This in some ways will neutralize the pure climbers, they don't want to drag these guys to the line. This furthermore plays into GVA/Sagan only game plan, a controlled tempo to the final climb. If its all together at the last lap i think GVA/sagan has a very good chance if they are having a great day. This is such a hard day a lot of people will be neutralized due to the distance and difficulty.

I think Roglic is a serious contender. In fact i think he is a top 5 contender. We need to petition to have Van Der Poel race worlds as well.

Alaphilippe, Yates (i'll pick which later), Valverde
Kwiatkowski and Roglic

Roglic is really good at the sharp stuff. Wouldn't count out Dumoulin either

For the TTT:
Quick Step
Sunweb
BMC

Katusha and Lotto NL Jumbo as dark horses.

I think that final hill of the road race is abit too brutal for the gilbert types. Alaphillipe and kwiatkowski are contenders for sure but I think it's a coin toss as to whether Sagan makes that final selection.

I think Roglic will be a factor but I'm hesitant- he' s not shown much in a brutally long one day race so far in his career.

Anyone know if Nibali is racing? I think he will be a dark horse. This sort of course- brutally long, lots of climbing, potentially tough conditions- is his sort of thing. Reminds me very much of the 2013 roads course where he made the final group. Plus he won Milan San Remo this year which is kinda similar to this route.

not to mention the Rio Olympics

Hey guys, just looking at the course profile for the TTT on cyclingnews...is the climb the same as what they use in the road race? And why does the women's race not use the same climb?

My hesitation with Roglic is lack of classics experience. 200k would be one thing but getting well into bonus rounds tips in flavor of other guys, IMO.

Gianni Moscon

Eh, I had it right the first time. That was some beat down by QS.

Now we turn to your namesake hopefully having that kind of ride tomorrow.

Looks like it will be Valverde of Julian

good call

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Terpstra was interviewed after the TTT. Played the corners on the descent for 100 times (not sure if he's exaggerating there)



for your first question, no, it's different from all three (Gnadenwald, Iglis, and that nasty kicker at the end of the men's road race)

for your second question, no idea

GvA seems like the bargain on that list.

I want your crystal ball
What a year for the wolfpack
I think some riders were saving them selves for the ITT, Kung was dropped, Dennis looked tepid.

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res, non verba

You followed the wrong wheel. Sorry. I didn’t really scrutinize QS. They were perfect.

I'm surprised valverde is rated that high, he faded badly in the pyranees.
My pick would be alaphillipe to win, yates and then woods.

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res, non verba

Sports betting dynamics.
Valverde, being who he is, will always have more wager then somebody else. So price will drop.

Surprised that Kung got dropped.

TTTs are a funny thing. Good ITTers do not necessarily make for a fast TTT team; the on/sort of off nature can favor punchy riders who can recover quickly and go again, versus the preferred steady state of a pure TTer. Not sure I’ve suffered as much as during the few that I’ve done.

What type of a bike racing geek are you if this is the last one? We still have Il Lombardia on 13 October, and the TdF 2019 route annoucement in late Oct and the Giro route announcement on deck!!!! More cycling topics to discuss after the world's!!!

I dunno...same reason there isn’t a discussion thread for every single triathlon with a pro field?

The Presidential Cycling Tour of Turkey coming up. If you DNF you have to spend the night in prison.

Valverde always fades in grand tours, Valverde also "always" (or as close as you can get in professional cycling) wins on courses like this one. He's been the best small man sprinter for a long time.

Of course, now there is that French guy to give him a run for his money.

what about Wednesday's ITT? I assume its hilly like the Team event, meaning it not Tom D as the fav?

http://www.uci.org/cyclo-cross

A lot of these are going to be on Olympic Channel, too [I recorded yesterday's from Waterloo, and have Iowa queued up for next weekend]

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Aru is definitely not targeting that race.

And the TdF route announcement is only slightly more boring than actual TdF itself. That said, and without any inside knowledge of said route, here are my predictions for '19 race:

• On GC days Sky sets crushing tempo, rendering viewing exciting for last 10-12 minutes of stage
• <Insert name> debuts as Team Sky domestique, destroys peloton. Sky's <Insert name> handily wins GC
• Movistar sends entire team of GC contenders who fight amongst themselves about who has to fetch bottles, and 3rd spot on podium
• Bauke Mollema gets into breakaways on every stage with a hill. On days it sticks, he manages podiums but is out-sprinted each time
• Ritchie Porte gets sick, crashes or has bar tape unravel on technical descent, costing him shot at podium
• Teyay van Quintana remains in search of his old self at new home, EF Education sponsored by Cannondale powered by Weiner Dog supported by Tom's Auto Body of Temecula, opts to ride Fondo schedule instead
• Ever the showman, Sagan decides he need a greater challenge and rides Tour on new Specialized Sagan Collection Strider Bike, still wins green jersey
• QS, America's team, wins 8 stages
• Sepp Kuss gets TdF start, giving the Brits someone to talk to in english on tough climbs

Frustrated by Sagan's dominance of the points competition, UCI rules that his bikes - and his bikes alone - may only have one wheel, forcing him to do the entire tour riding a wheelie

He still wins the Green Jersey

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Comcast put in a $40B bid to buy SKY

That means they'll be too expensive, not offer enough, and never show up on schedule

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Dude...this was only supposed to be "Road Worlds Spoilers"...thanks a lot.

Remember last year’s course? Had a brutish climb to the finish, and ge bossed it

Dumoulin is still the favorite


Golf clap. Well done

I actually think that the climb favors Dumoulin, and if anything, he would want the climb to be slightly more decisive than it is to push it even more in his favor. He's already a very good climber as it is...especially on the not so steep (less than 12%) and steady type hills. This one is around 4.5 km at 7%, which well within his wheel house. I think if it were 8-9% grade, it would be perfect for him to separate himself from Dennis. The hill as it is keeps Dennis in as one of the favorites.

The descent isn't that steep or technical, so I don't think you're going to see anyone go ape shit on the climb then use the descent to tuck and recover. It's going to be a pretty even distribution of power over 52 km, which means it's favors the TTers who are not overly heavy...aka Dumoulin and Dennis.

Maybe if the hill was 6 km at 10%, and the descent was steeper where it's more about tucking and descending skills, then the course would favor a lighter rider.

Come on, you knew all the Tour stuff other than Sagan's new Strider bike.

Spot-on about TT; exceptional TTers like TD can win on any course unless it's a pure climb.

that's good stuff

Spackler, you magnificent bastard. Reno inspired.

Yep, the climb even has one km approaching 10% and this definitely favors Dumoulin over Dennis. Of the guys who can really TT, none can climb anything like Dumoulin.

1.3km at 10.7%. Roglic?

Focusing solely on the road race

custom built track for TD but Dennis can climb as per his GC bid and Castroviejo and Jungle Bob and Joey Rosskopf USA and Kung and Campanaerts and Kwiat and Soler and Tejay Q...

the descent and finish will be interesting and the run up is not completely flat either

100% agree that this would be a good course for Roglic, however he is not riding the time trial. Apparently he had an elbow injury that prevented him from training on the TT bike. He's only riding the road race.

On another note, I just read Chad Haga's blog, http://www.cyclingnews.com/...lings-sinister-game/
, about finishing 2nd in the TTT. He's a really good writer and I particularly appreciated this effort. Highly recommended.

Yup. I don't think Dumoulin has a clear cut advantage over Dennis on this course. Dennis can climb well if it's not mountain after mountain or a really slobber knocking hill. I believe they are about the same weight...but my guess is Dumoulin is a kg or so lighter with his focus on two GTs this year. I know Dennis has also focused on losing some weight to transform into a GC rider as well...but my guess is that he's not as far along in the process.

The other guys you mentioned will be factors because of the climb...but there is a lot of flat and rolling terrain where I think Dumoulin and Dennis will separate themselves on.

I'm going to pick Dennis in an upset, Dumoulin, then Castroviejo.

TD
Dennis
Dowsett

Kung could be a threat, hope Jungle Bob can go well.

I don't feel like clogging up the main forum with yet another "is the H3 still a good wheel?" but I must say the number of "solid" fronts in the TTT was amusing.
several different brands. I did my best to de-dup, but I counted about 15 in these pics. [link]

TD, Dennis, Castroviejo

First two no question. Dowsett? He hasn't shown good form for awhile. Madsen will beat him I'd wager ...;)

It's a shame Thomas, Roglic, and Froome aren't in there.

Also. I know nobody cares, but the Dutch sweep in the women's TT was kinda weird.



Another win for the funky looking Scott TT helmet:

What's weird about it? Van Vlueten and van der Breggen went 1-2 last year and van Dijk is a former ITT world champ.

Are we required to have unique picks? If not, I'm just gonna' go with yours. :-)

You're wrong there, buddy

The joy of the Canyon SRAM women after the TTT was worth all of it

MTB Racer Larissa Connors said this [or something like it] when she was on Lance's Podcast: "Who wouldn't want to watch a bunch of hot athletic chicks in skin tight clothes?"

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

That isn't what's weird. Rather, so much dominance from a small country.

During the Women's broadcast, CVV said that the TTT discipline is going away, or may change to a National team format

Anyone else catch that?

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

It's changing to a national team format with 3 men and 3 women per team, and medals assigned by combined men's and women's time.

Are you familiar with Belgium and the Classics and cyclocross? :)

Madsen (MTM here on ST) puts in a stunner of a ride. 43 seconds up on the second checkpoint (after the climb)! Looks like he's on a 1x, so he must've found the right gear...

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

Yeah, looking good; I'm curious how his time stands up to the big guns

or football for that matter


of course not; i think i nicked mine from someone else ;)

that would be the sane way of doing it;

they are apparently doing 2 teams per nation, 6 members per team, time taken as that of the third person to cross the line. They then add up the times as the cumulative and go from there.

Personally i'd have preferred 3 & 3 as you suggested, and then take time as that of the fifth person across the line. Would require quite a bit of geeky fine tuning

Wow he crushed first place by 44 secs, well done! Hope it holds up. Chapeau!

might be good for a top-10


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also, have we written off Tony Martin?

looks like a solid time. Good job Martin!

Anyone find a stream that worked? Can't find a proxy server that UCI channel will allow and all the Steephill links are no-go's.

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Won’t hold up but great ride for MTN.

Castroviejo’s position makes my entire body hurt.

Yeah, I mean the Dutch really came out of nowhere this year. Shocking!

yea, that deserves recording. amazing.

edit: and they added this:

If the timing’s right Dennis is going to put a beat down of epic proportions on the field

Did he catch/pass Castroviejo? That's pretty impressive haha

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Yes, already at the bottom of the climb. Dude is on his way to total destruction of everyone else today.

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Need more W/CdA.

VPN + Eurosport, as i have been preaching since 2012

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Wonder what Kwiatek's ride will do to his chances on Sunday

ffs finally!
Just don't wreck/flat/break an aerobar this time!

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Dumoulin looks very skinny

Just an incredible ride by Dennis

Yeah, amazing ride. He put it all together. Glad to see the ITT is still the realm of specialists.

I’ll tweak my TdF prediction too: if TD targets it, he wins. After 2nd place in 4 major events he’ll be turning the pedals with fury next year.

i tend to agree. On form, rested Dumoulin is a force to be reckoned with

In terms of laundry, suppose the Dutch National team wins the World TTT title, do all the members of the Dutch team get to wear the rainbow jersey for the TTT in whatever races they do, regardless of which company team they're on? Or do they not even do that? Did Sunweb have stripes in their TTT kit this year? I forget now

I know it's a stupid question, but I always like looking for the stripes

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Olympic Channel has great coverage. Its Paul Sherwen & Christian Vande Velde, they show the entire TT and road race starts at 3am Sunday Morning. I upgraded my TV package for $10 more for my kid, and ended up getting the Olympic Channel, totally worth it. I can watch online through Xfinity.

agreed and I think he had a much better year than Tejay in the TT and should have been selected for the US team for the TT. He was 2nd in the US Time Trial behind Rosskopf

Well deserved for Dennis. His prep for the TT was on point, winning both TT's in the Vuelta. He was more prepared.

Yup...he's had a long season this year with more focus on GC which is why I thought Dennis would have a chance today. Didn't expect him to smash it though.

If Dumoulin targets the TdF, he's going to be very hard to beat. The climbs aren't as steep and Sky will be there setting a hard tempo which is exactly what he wants vs more of a free that you tend to see in the Giro/Vuelta. Thomas was on amazing form at the TdF and maybe would have beat a fresh TD this year anyway, but I have to believe that GT was at his very peak where TD still has some room to improve.

"The male athletes will ride first and the women will replace them on the road as soon as the second male rider has crossed the finish line. Final timings will be taken when the second female rider crosses the finish line, with the fastest team declared the winner."

Relay.

I love the idea if it's just going to be say...3 men then 3 women on each team. I think it's a better viewing experience when there are less riders working together. Much easier to tell who is doing most of the work and your weakest link becomes much more exposed.

"doesn't look very aero to me"

please tell me he was kidding

HAHA, also when you watch him he is rock solid. I also think he has a bit of the Cancellara skill set, the ability to stay in the bars and take turns hard. I was watching the replay last night and you could see the speed idfferences in turns, Dennis was very fast in the corners. He also looks comfortable, no constant movement. He might give up 1-2% from an aero standpoint but gains more from comfort, power, and handling ability.

ST navel gazing at its finest. Because, you know, if he was going to run after, shorter cranks could benefit.

That’s why I’ve mostly limited myself to the confines of bike threads (sorry Jason, almost replied to your comments about TL tires, then thought the better of it considering all the expert opinions).

Now then, some amazing news: Flanders gets 2021 worlds. Oh. Boy.

Agreed, so much is gained by stability and being able to really relax and crank it.

Wow. I wanna go. That will be nuts.

aw man, that's awesome


edit:
dibs on Sagan!

for a forum that has decent amount of helpful knowledge, the number of people blattering nonsense is also quite staggering...



let's see, Oude Kwaremont as part of the TT course? Personally i'd be fine with running the last 50 km of de Ronde for the TT course.

Ah, see, the shorter cranks thing...

That road course will be the spring classics gift that keeps on giving for the season. Ought to keep GvA around and Valverde racing into his 50s

I may just lose my mind that week. That will be a race (nay, several races) for the ages. The sides of the courses will be solid yellow Lions of Flanders.

Maybe Evenepoel will win that one. Kid's a phenom.

The race starts in Antwerp and ends in Leuven. That's Belgian Capital region/East Flanders. Most of the Flemish classics are in West Flanders. No idea of the terrain in East Flanders. Could one cobble together a series of cobbled climbs in that region?

The thread title tipped the OP's hand

I live just near Leuven. One could find cobbles climbs in lots of places in Belgium, but not so many as in the typical spots of the classics. I read that the course would rather do some of the local hills after arriving from Antwerp. Stuyven just won the GP Poeske Scherens in Leuven, you can look that up, it has some short but steep climbs. If they do those hills a bunch of times at a decent pace the pure sprinters would be toast. Devolder won the Belgian championship in Leuven in 2010 when he was still one of the big classic favourites, so that might also give an idea about the course that they can possibly create. I will definitely be taking a few days off.

The TT course will be in Oostende (Ostend for the English or French speakers/readers) so that will probably be windy but mostly flat as it is near our coast.

Do you think it would incorporate some form of a circuit or more of a point to point?

Both: start in Antwerp, riding to Leuven and doing local circuits there.

cobbled climbs or "just" climbs

and yea, Devolder is a fine representative

No cobbles climbs in the very close area, so I suspect it will be regular climbs. Which is a shame, but if they want to make a cobbles WC they should just organise it near Oudenaarde anyway. Or a Roubaix like race if it has to be in France, or Strade Bianche if it's been a while since they did Italy (having just visited Siena on my way to Elbaman it sure looked nice and steep over there). Then again there is no way the UCI would approve that.

ETA: just checked some more news reports and the TT would be between Knokke and Brugge (Bruges). So still flat and windy but with some added old Tour of Flanders vibes.
The road race would end on a slight uphill in Leuven. I have no idea where that would be but I like that it would not be a typical flat sprint finish.

My god what a race for him. Came back from a 1:30 deficit due to a mechanical after a crash and still won by 1:20? At a WC? Hope he surrounds himself with good people, he’ll be an interesting rider to watch in the pro field in a few years.

Is that the kid who taco'd his wheel early on?

Thanks for this info, please keep popping in and dropping more info as you find it.

My fall '21 travel schedule is getting much clearer.

Double world champ, crazy how good he is. Everyone knows he's going to solo and can't do anything about it.

Signed with QS / Wolfpack. With that kind of natural talent, Lefevere & company will turn him into a world beater.

A world beater or a burnt out 22 year old. I really hope the former. It's going to take a heavy hand to keep that kid in check and develop him slowly.

He finished with a shallow rear from change. How much better could he have done with a deep aero wheel?

From what I've read they're going to bring him along slowly; good thing about that team is learning from the other riders and not having pressure to win right away. I think his dad was a pro too, and he came to cycling late. Hopefully it works out for him.

So being relatively new fan to the world of cycling, has any Junior before impressed as much as Remco Evenepoel without becoming something big on the pro circuit?

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

It isn't unusual for a dominant junior to end up mediocre. I think early maturity has a lot to do with it, and serious training at a young age. Other riders eventually surpass them.

But... Evenepoel only started cycling last year. And the way he is winning, the competition has a lot of catching up to do.

That's what struck me when I read about him (this morning...) and was quite surprised that he had only been riding for 18 months with his father having been a pro cyclist.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

That sucks. Gonna be totally lame. I was hoping for Qatar again.

Reminds me a little of Taylor Phinney who kind of "came off the couch" and started winning right off the bat at age 16 (like the Junior Worlds TT). Won the senior Worlds 1k, 4k and team pursuit at age 18. Good genes. Won the U23 TT at age 20, and was 2nd (by 5s) in the Worlds TT at age 22. I don't know if he ever would have made it to the Martin or Cancellara level of TT dominance, but he was close. The accident seems to have dampened his performance.

The Belgian kid is more of an all around talent. Will be cool to see what he does.

Reminds me, Tom D was in that 2010 U23 TT that Phinney won, and he sucked. Always some late bloomers.

So far my September 2021 looks pretty wide open......

Damn there goes my pick already.. 2021 is going to be a great year if worlds come to Belgium, should be a really competitive race with a lot of contenders!

On another note, why isn't anybody really talking about Kwiato? I didn't really expect him to be 4th in the TT to be honest, if his form is there on Sunday, he might be a contender..

I think Allaphilipe will get it...

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Its been said that the reason why dominant juniors tend to underperform is that they are typically relying too much on their physical gifts and dont hone other skills- such as bike handling/tactics from young.

I can see merit in this. If as a teen you happen to be an early developer physically then you will crush everyone easily by just TT-ing off the front every race. This doesnt give you the chance to learn how to contest a bunch sprint effectively, how and when to attack at the right time, how to develop other weapons in your arsenal- descending skills, wheel surfing skills, etc... this puts the rider in trouble later on when everyone catches up physically, because then he has a limited skillset as compared to everyone else.

I can see that happen to evenepoel unfortunately. Limited cycling background, mainly wins by TTing off the front and just having a massive engine (understandable since he came from a pro soccer background, which is no cakewalk fitness wise). Either he picks up more skills from joining quick step or he will be in trouble later.

Of course, if he has a massive enough engine nothing else matters...

Apparently the pro futbol clubs include PSV Eindhoven and Anderlecht: the former a perennial Dutch powerhouse that has won the European Cup (annual tournament where the champions/top teams of each European country compete), the latter the most successful team in Belgium. He also played as an outside (defensive) back, which is perhaps the most physically demanding position on the pitch, as such players has to cover grounds from one end of the field to the other, often sprinting forward to join the attack or backward to help the defense. That's where the engine is from. Apparently, his latest transfer is from Anderlecht to a lesser-known Belgian team. I guess that's perhaps when he saw the light and realized he might not have as big of a future there.

He's also apparently supremely confident, to the point of being cocky. Someone remarked that he didn't thank his teammates and coaches in his post-race interview. Perhaps the exuberance of youth, but one has to have those things kept in check sooner or later, as this is a team sport. A bit surprised that someone from a team sport background would overlook such things.

Good point. Handling and tactics are really other talents entirely vs physical ability. In the elites, physical ability alone is never enough. It's also a big mental adjustment for a junior who is accustomed to winning everything easily, to suddenly being crushed in races.

I think Evenepoel will have no issue with handling though. Being a soccer player means he has agility and coordination. An in the Belgian races, he'll get plenty of practice.

Alaphilippe certainly seems to be the right rider in the right form for this course. Will be interesting to see if he gets marked out.

I'm really interested to see how Nibbles goes. Was he hiding his form and/or religiously adhering to the strategy of using the Vuelta as training? As a greater climber/descender, and a performer in long one-day races (MSR), he seems to have all the tools to excel here, but his form is a real question mark... and he did fracture his vertebrae just over 2 months ago... not sure how that might impact things.

Roglic and Kwiato are the other two who seem like obvious contenders to me. I think Valverde is still going to be feeling the Vuelta.

Would love to see Rusty Woods contend here, but IMO he'd need a punchy uphill finish, he's not a good descender and I don't think he can contest a flat finish like this. Also will be interesting to see how much team tactics play into this, as Canada only has four guys and I think Rob Britton, despite being the only non-world tour guy, can probably be the best domestique for Woods on this course.

I've sent this exact message to USA Cycling and will do so again every week for the next two years.

Second coming of Fabian in U23 race?

Will be interesting to see what happens in women’s race. Not sure sure I’d count Sagan out given how it unfolded today.

Just saw the end of that race on USA Cycling's FB feed. Pretty cool, I'm assuming that's available for all but the men's races due to likely media regulations. Strong attack on the final downhill there.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

If this were the course on Sunday, absolutely. But that 3km of brutish-gradient climbing? Maybe if Sagan teams up with GvA and go OTF, so they can climb that final hill with enough of a cushion. But anything could happen...

As for tomorrow, I'm so inclined just naming the Dutch team for the top-5: Van Vleuten, Vos, Anna VdB, Brand, and Pieters. But jest aside, i'll go with

Van Vleuten, Vos, Moolman-Pasio
Anna VdB and Niewiedoma

Vleuten is enjoying quite the resurgence at the age of 35. Granted, she was a known quantity before these past few years, having won RvV, but she's been dominant. VdB has been so strong yet lacks that World Champion's jersey. At least the Dutch team doesn't appear dysfunctional, and I'm sure they'll support whoever's up the road


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btw, anyone else on Zwift finds it cool that you know almost exactly what the course is like? Thought that was quite neat when I recognized the features and landmarks

I have seen a bunch of interviews after the race with the Belgian tv channel Sporza and he made sure to thank the entire team a bunch of times. They also interviewed that team and they said they were happy to ride for him. All of them mentioned the work the coach did to make this a team effort. They also interviewed Wilfried Peeters from QS who also said they will not be going for a full 70-80 race days but take it easy with rest periods. They know very well not to just burn up this kind of talent.

I can see why you say he's cocky but he also explicitly says time and again that he is just starting and has a lot to learn when turning pro. I'd be extremely confident too if I was almost 2 minutes behind with 60k to go and just know that by riding at an ok effort I'd return to the front group ready to still attack.

PS: I hear people say pro soccer (football, whatever) players are extremely fit. While I will not contest this, I do know it is definitely not true for all of them. I've seen enough pro players jog to know they will not be winning any running races soon. One of my cycling buddies almost made the first pro league in Belgium and is very honest about that. But I'd be willing to bet that this guy indeed with his position and apparent focus probably was running really well.

thanks for chiming in; serves me right to go from a 2nd hand source (someone who said s/he watched the entire Sporza interview segment)

btw, great user name. Wonder how many figures out that cycling is mentioned in your user name

I saw an interesting interview with Tom Boonen that really made sense to me. He is going to need to learn how to race. Right now, he's not racing, he's just riding hard and nobody can follow him. He is literally a man among boys. He won't be able to get away with that in the pro ranks and his ability to learn and adapt to tactics will be a big key to whether he succeeds or not. I think he's going to a very good place to learn all of that, but it will probably take some work. I've seen lots of guys fly up the ranks by riding away and winning all of their lower category races and then struggle in the elites where everybody is pretty strong.

It will be fun to watch.

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I got to watch both junior races last night. Both were great watches...especially the junior women race. I know they are just kids, but man...Italy really botched both races. Cool to see the Americans in the mix in the junior mens race.

I can see how this would be true...but from my sample size of 1 race watching this kid, it was more than his engine that impressed me. The instant he realized he needed a rear wheel, he stayed very calm. It was only after about 30 seconds where mechanics were helping everyone but him holding his rear wheel in the air did he start to show some panic. Then he calmly made his way up the field, and once he crested the climb...instead of pressing on in TT mode, he let a group reform with one of his teammates and sat in the back. When the groups eventually came together and he realized 2 guys were up the road...again...he didn't panic. He let his teammates set the tempo and just sat there even though he could have just dropped the whole group and TT'd his way back up to the leaders. It was only when the Americans attacked did he decide to make the final move to bridge up.

That German kid though...I think I was more happy for him coming in second more than anything else. What guts.

The TSS accumulation will be significant in this race, so much so i think it will level the playing field and keep things in check. Anybody who is carrying fatigue will be found out at the end. The descent was quite interesting in the U23 race. Sagan could get dropped but get back on before the finish. I do think Roglic, Moscon, Kiwato, Valverde, or Ala will win. If Sagan pulled off a win on this course we might as well give him a GOAT.

For sure. He's winning on talent but that alone won't get it done in big leagues. I bet it'll also be a little humbling to show up at camp with jr world champ stripes and be surrounded by guys like Gilbert, Alaphillipe, Gaviria, etc.

Once again Boonen speaks the truth. The phenom jumps up a level and he will get schooled. No substitute for lots of racing. US wunderkinds especially don't get enough.

I think it would be cool to develop an app for "pick up racing" like pick up hoops so that instead of a Zwift or group noodle ride, one could find a few other psychos ready to scrimmage somewhere nearby for 90 minutes. Then beers, of course. No app for that.

Screenshotting this post in case it takes off. Don't want to get Zuckerberged.

Isn't that just going to your local shop ride and turning it into XXXday worlds?

If you're looking for something more random, then your app needs to have the excuses built in for easy responses...

"Sorry, it's my recovery week"

"Coach said today is supposed to be an easy day"

"My legs are fried, I did 200k yesterday"

Thanks.

Some added value to this post: just saw a post on facebook where someone posted results from Remco Evenepoel doing a half marathon in Brussels. As a 16 year old. This is not the flattest half marathon (but also not the toughest) and he did 1h16 and finished 13th. So the kid indeed has a bit of a running engine as well.

Exactly, it's Wednesday Night Worlds 2 or 3 days a week.

Alright, time to pick. Really want to go with Kwiato but wonder how much is left in tank physically and psychologically; TD is a glaring example, looking hollowed out from long year.

Thus, I’m going with:
Alaphilippe
Old Man Valverde
Kwiato

Wild cards are Sagan and Nibali because you never really know with those two.

I'm going Alaphilippe, Lopez, Roglic if they ride it hard.
Sagan if they hesitate and look at each other.

haha, the Dutch were just toying with everyone else

hammer dropping time

everyone can go back to bed now; set your alarm for 1 hr. Anna VdB to be crowned World Champion unless something awful happens on the descent

Anybody watch the start? Crazy how there were some women in the race that were dropped pretty much as soon as the flagged drop. Some poor girl from Albania didn't even have a kit, looked like she was dressed in some rec rider's gear.

For tomorrow

Alaphilippe, Simon Yates, Kwiatkowski
Martin, Valverde

Miguel Indurain agrees with you. Lemond likely does not like Indurain's engine that got "massive" suddenly

Pleased that Spratty got second. Took a chance and was rewarded. Not seen any interviews with Corine Rivera so no idea what she was thinking trying to ride off the front. The ease with which Anna VdB caught the break on the climb was stunning

wish they would put more of the womens' UCI races back on TV. We haven't had a lot of the races since Evie Stevens' last year of racing. Next year will be exciting to see how the new Trek team do in the mix with Canyon, Boels, Sunweb, MS and the others.

you can catch almost all of women's racing on Eurosport

Anna VdB went through that break like a hot knife through butter. Spratt was going at tempo; the rest were going at threshold. Didn't take much for VdB to catch them.

Rivera should be applauded for going OTF (in contrast to and better than U.S. doing their miserable Skybot impression); too bad her teammates didn't have the legs to breakaway.

My picks Roglic, Kwiato, and Alaphilippe

Wild card picks, Adam Yates and Dan Martin

Alaphilippe
Old Man Valverde
Kwiato

Wild cards are Sagan and Nibali because you never really know with those two

all i had to do was cut and paste ......

its awesome to hear that from Tom. Tomica, the guy who podium'd PR with training wheels but could still drop the peloton (and his own teammate!!) 10 years later. Tom won with the biggest engine, he won with the best tactics. I'd listen to that guy.

is that Tommeke's sister?

Moscon
Roglic
Kiwato

Wildcars

Sagan and Valverde

I think Valverde has too much in his legs. Ala will be marked the entire race.

Still love him attacking his own break that was away and where he would have won the sprint easily. Studly, and dashing. Didn't work, made little sense but what the hell. Would have been cool. That's panache.

Speaking of dynamic, I'm going with Sagan tomorrow as a darkish horse, longish shot. I know, he's not suited, etc. But,

1. We've seen him bury himself and climb when it was do or die. He will defend the hell out of the champ stripes.
2. He's lives for this stuff. If he's close to the front group at the summit of Hell Hole Hill, they're going to be very unhappy on the way down and in.
3. He'll be light and rested. He wasn't racing for GC or green in the Vuelta so form should be right on. Endurance will be there as will the boom shaka laka which is always there.
4. 7 hours of racing, controlled by the faves. He can and will be invisible almost all day. Then he can descend like no one else. Maybe Nibs.

Alaphillipe of course, Rusty Woods, Kwiat, Chris Horner, Nibs.........going to be very interesting. Maybe Pinot?

Go Peto Go. Best thing to happen to the world tour since podium girls.

Pinot... good idea. Don’t mind if I do.

I heard an awesome story about Evenepoel today. Probably shouldn’t share too much but let’s just say it includes Mrs. Merckx eviscerating him and his dad, which is probably not a way to start your career.

Van deer Breggen adds WC to Olympic championships, Flanders, LBL, Amstel Gold and Giro among others? That’s ridiculously impressive; there isn’t a contemporary dude that comes close.

Yeah, amidst everyone saying Sagan can't win on this course, he considers the rainbow stripes to HIS, and isn't going to give them up without a fight. I don't think he's likely to win, but there's definitely a chance the race goes his way.

could be. I only do Phlegmish in Fonetics.
and they're both #1 with fritos.
or something like that.


I love these threads.

grigio or noir?

----------------
as for Anna VdB, she closed that 1 min 10 second gap in 2 min 45 seconds (though maybe the GPS time gap wasn't fully accurate). That'd suggest she's going at ~28kph while the break was going at 19kph; even if the gap had been only 40 seconds, she'd still have gone at 24 kph... Went past that break like hot knife through butter.

The only person as impressive would be Vos back in the early 2010s, as both could climb and sprint. VdB, however, has a time trialing engine as well, which Vos didn't have. Vos is quite the multi-discipline rider though, having achieved success in both MTB and CX (and track as well, IIRC)

and speaking of pros and other disciplines of cycling, truly amazing what they could do. I picked up MTB recently, and I'd bet some seriously out of shape dude can give me a run for my money in cat-3 MTB races (as in, lowest level of MTB racing). In contrast, the pros seem to navigate the technical demands of MTB with ease...


i'm just messing with ya :p

while we are on the topic of alcohol, who else is gonna join me in some early morning beer consumption? got a bottle of la Chouffe in the fridge.

then. now. I'm in.

man, if Peto could win this ...... shoot.

I might have been drunk and hopped up on frites and mayo when I picked them, so don’t blame me if it goes sideways

It’s Noir season.

I have MTB and CX skill envy.

Let’s see: I’ll tune into race around 6:15 here in Cali. Beer? Yes. Which means later I’ll have to put my bike in the back of an Uber and drive around for 35 miles or so to keep up Strava game.

Well if you are right that would be totally awesome!

Whatever it takes. By any means necessary.
The weather and setting are surreal. 115k to go and guys are being dropped. Petos bro out dee back. Great fans. Reminds me of Roth. Hup! Hup! Hup! Whoops, mentioned triathlon. My bad. Won't happen again.

Kirienko gone already! I don’t know how anyone other than a light climber can be there at the end. This is hard. Warren Barguil is out on a mechanical then just slid out trying to get out of the cars and back on. That sucks for Alaphillipe Gilbert, but he has others.
Ireland has 2 guys in the break. That’s cool to see. Great kits.

how are we watching?

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My Sagan theory is shot. He popped at 92k. Wow.

wouldn't it be funny if Juraj Sagan won today?

Apart from AvdB's very good ride, it was pretty amazing team-game from the Dutch squad. Van Dijk gets dropped off the break, as soon as she's caught van Vleuten strings everyone out, and as soon as that's neutralised van der Breggen goes off the front. The Dutch squad proceeds to ride 3-abreast at the head of the peloton, just to screw up any hopes of catching AvdB.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

When was last time Sagan rode in trade team jersey? He was Slovak national champ for a few years at least before he was world champ.

Rob Britton still in the break. What a ride.
I hope D Martin shanks em all.

GvA doing what he did in Rio, breaking away with a few laps remaining

Brutal announcing on Pozzovivo dropping a mussette: "Probably four bidons. Too heavy."

impressive chasing by Slovenia; chasing down a 1 min+ min gap...

Still a big Peloton but looks like much of it is running on fumes. They’ll have to get a chase organized pretty quick because that’s a dangerous move. Also sets up the chance for someone to go across and strengthen it.

With D. Martin, Yates, and Kwiat dropped you know the thread is thin and could blow apart at any time.

Looks like with 44K left, 3 min up, its very viable he does the Rio repeat. The chase group appears to be disorganized and kind of attacking one another rather than genuinly chasing.I think this plays into GVA's hands.

It'd be awesome if GvA was able to pull it off

I tuned in late, but I hear Nibali is hovering in the back of the main chase group somewhere? How do you rate his chances if the can bring it back?

def; we don't see the figurative elastic stretching, but it is



not anymore

--------------------------

Alaphillippe has been hiding himself well

I disagree about disorganization. The Dutch and Spanish are keeping the pace high between attacks. They're not going to sleep on GvA.

Nuts. And Quintana and Uran still in. TD still has Keldeman with him. Who is there and who is not is fascinating. Valeffingverde and Alaphillipe Gilbert have not been mentioned once. Nibs is ready to go.

OK thanks I just tuned in at 50K to go so missed most of the action. Seems like the Italian team is keeping the pace up.

I am confused...where is GVA

Nibbles dropped. that twerp Moscon is still there though...

I like beer......drank it in high school......drink it now.......

Freakin Pinot doing it for Ala.

Roglic back. Wow.

“Now being dropped” <everyone>

Come on Woods and TD!!! They hesitate for a second and he’ll be there

Come on TD..!.!

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I thought the finish would be a little more exciting than that. The sprint wasn't really even contested!

Really? How many sprints have you done after 258k?

I think I was just expecting more sparks. I'm thrilled for the new world champ!

Glad for Valverde, he’s been so close so many times. He’s one of the most crafty riders and put it to use today.

Feel bad for Bardet, huge day. Would have liked Woods to get it but 3rd is a massive result for him. TD showed his class to come back from TT. Looked like he just was just one gear short in finale.

exactly. not to mention near 4500 meters of climbing (aka, half-Everesting)

man, really was pulling for Tommy D there...

Wood did Canada proud. Did Bauer ever win a medal at World's?

Yeah, Bauer won bronze once.

That was an awesome ride by Woods. Great finish. He looked so much happier with his bronze than Bardet did with his silver!

Canada looked damn good this year, with solid placings in the women's races as well.

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***

BARUTAL day, of the four at the line glad Vlaverde got the win. I think Moscon was overgeared on the final climb. Woods looked nervous at the finish and tried a few too many times leading into the finish.

Glad Moscon didn’t didn’t win. While Valverde doped (allegedly), Moscon just doesn’t seem like that good of a human being.

I thought Bauer got a medal in the 1986 Worlds fiasco with Criquelion. And he got bronze at the Barcelona Worlds (1984 I believe) after he took silver at the LA Olympics road race.

As for today, Woods did everything he could. He single handedly manufactured an almost guaranteed medal on the last 28 percent climb until suddenly it was not assured when Dumoulin ITT'd back on. I kind of thought Dumoulin would just ride over the top and try to out TT them but he caught them too early.

Woods' medal is exciting for us because he used to run for the local track club and it was a bunch of local fast tri geeks who also ran for the track club who roped Woods into going for a few rides when he got injured running. The rest of the story you guys know, so we have a big interest when Woods does well

It was Valverde’s time. Seventh podium at worlds, first time on top at last. A glorious way to start stepping out... after a season dressing the rainbow jersey.

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Sr. Salitre

I am as happy about Valverde winning as I am about when Vino won the gold in London 2012, which is "not reallly that happy" given the former doper status. But if we accept that pro cyclists use dope like pro triathletes draft the grey zone and they treat a doping bust like getting nailed for drafting, sit in the sin bin and then come back to racing, then sure, pretty cool for Valverde. I guess I have not totally made the leap that I equate a sin bin sit out for a doping bust to be like a sin bin sit out for drafting. At least for now. How the cycling media treats former dopers is quite different from how the tri media treats former dopers too. But whatever, it was an awesome race however you cut it.

Personally, I think we are beating a dead horse on this. Pro cycling, it is what it is. And we pretty much agree that, any way you look at it, Bala (bullet) has been consistently throwing sensational performances day in day out...

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Sr. Salitre

I'm with you on Valverde. Maybe Fuentes should get to stand on the podium with him. I know Valverde challenged it as they always do - but DNA is pretty strong evidence....and this is blood doping, about as bad as doping gets. Christian VdV doing the commentary on the olympic channel couldn't really mention it given his past (i actually think he and Sherwen have done a great job all week. Can't be easy commentating for hours each day all in the same location).

i guess it is a bit like life in general. Those who like Movistar or Valverde in particular give them the benefit of the doubt or just treat it as a different era.

Wow, really surprised to hear this from you. Given the riders in the final selection I was gutted to see someone from the old guard win. Kudos to Fuentes.

It's difficult to set aside the past, but I've really come to be a Valverde fan. I'm super happy for him today - not that a World Championship is ever 'deserved', but he has been a top competitor for the Worlds and on the podium there many times. He's had a good year, really motivating some races. That is on top of a number of pretty-to-very-good years recently, all while increasingly becoming the 'old man' of the peloton. His performance - and tenacity as he ages - is pretty impressive. That might be the very reason for some to be critical, but, still, I'm pleased with the result. He had a terrific VaE, and presumably came into the Worlds on good form. One of the hardest Worlds courses in recent memory. It's hard to be unhappy about the outcome if you are a cycling fan, I think. Others will have future opportunities. This might have been AV's last best chance.

Medvec VH, Madey SF, & Gilovich T (1995). When less is more: counterfactual thinking and satisfaction among Olympic medalists. Journal of personality and social psychology, 69 (4), 603-10 PMID: 7473022

Matsumoto D, & Willingham B (2006). The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat: spontaneous expressions of medal winners of the 2004 Athens Olympic Games. Journal of personality and social psychology, 91 (3), 568-81 PMID: 16938038


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...than-silver-winners/


-SD

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Woods, amazing ride.
Credit Valeffingverde, if I have to.
TD, damn, thought he had one more kick.
Pinot, marked every threat all day. Great ride.
Bardet, ditto, then some. Alaphillipe has to feel gutted. The French played it well, but that’s racing.
Britton, conti pro in the break all day. Oh Canada!

Agree with you on the above. Six times on the podium but never on the top step. And nice to see Oscar Freire there. And Niro Quintana happy for his trade teammate. Bardet - Not happy!!

And how cool was it to see Peter Sagan present the gold medal to AV. And boy, does AV have cute kids!

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

To some degree I am OK with treating it as another era, but here is the problem....cycling fans get all bent out of joint if Sky wins pushing marginal gains and give a massive pass to the likes of Contador, Valverde, Vino/Astana. It's this double standard floating around the fan base. Either accept that there was high octane doping then. ultra high octane doping in the time of Pantani/Riis, high Octane doping in the time of Indurain, and moderately high octane doping in the time of Stephen Roche (WTF, the guy won the Giro, the TdF and UCI worlds in 1987 2 years after Moser was doped to the nines on blood stuff for the Mexico City World Hour record) and just watch it for what it is, or get bent out of joint about everyone in all eras.

I'd have preferred if Bardet, Woods or Dumoulin won just because of the Fuentes connection on Valverde. And it's not so much that Valverde was with Fuentes....he seems to magically have moved on when others who went to Fuentes really crumbled because of it and their careers were toast. Not sure what he's done after being on blood bags to keep winning like this...perhaps he's on nothing and the peloton just slowed down to human levels. If so, that would be awesome. The lack of snap in anyone's legs for the last climb today and for the sprint kind of points towards maybe everyone mainly on bread and water.

He rode the best race, and was most crafty in finale. Not my favorite rider but that era was what it was; IMO can’t really like the game and hate the system because the latter is as complicit as any rider. Plus, doping alone doesn’t win someone a WC.

Would have been more happy for Bardet or TD or Woods to win but they didn’t. Hopefully their day comes.

I think Woods gave it all he had to wittle down everyone on the 28 percent grade to manufacture his medal. I THINK he may have already declared victory when he started the descent with only 3 riders. Maybe he did not care what color medal he gets (by the way, here in Canada, we have this bad habit of getting excited about second and third place....it is what happens to a national psyche when you live next door to the most powerful sporting, economic, financial and innovation juggernaut in the history of mankind). In China and in the US you guys count golds.

I am not sure if he was happy "just having a medal at the top of the climb" but I would guess that the answer was yes. Its almost like you have to really hate getting silver and bronze to even have a chance at gold.

On the Tom Doumoulin front the guy was silver at Giro, Silver at theTdF and Silver at the UCI World's TT. I don't think he is entirely happy with all that, but maybe I am wrong. He gave it everything and then some, to get gold today and came up with nothing. But I am guessing for Dumoulin another 2nd or 3rd was the same as 4th and not winning.

I don't know when else Bardet and Woods get another worlds course they can win on. 4000m+ of climbing is as good as a course as they could get.

I'm watching now. Did CVV just say Woods was a sub 4 minute miler? That's no joke if true.

a pity that they can't hold a candle to his dog Piti (for those curious, that's provenance of the name on the blood bag)

Valverde is a great rider. Period. He deserved this win and worked hard for it.

Do you think he was doping when he was winning everything as a junior? No, he wasn't. He was one of the biggest talents of his generation, which happened to be a generation where, for a time, all the guys at the top level were doping.

Some of us can look beyond that and recognize a great rider. Apparently some can't.

Replace Valverde in the sentence above with 007, or Ullrich, or Vino, or Basso or Contador and we can say the same thing :-)

and some of us know of names such as Giles Deleon, whose promising career (winner of Giro di Lombardia) was robbed short, as he choose to quit instead of partake in blood doping/EPO

I'll only say that Valverde is nowhere near as annoying as Vino, but that's not saying much

other than the psycopa7h 007 and the ego-maniacal Vino, the others riders were more or less likeable to a certain extent. All of them bowed out though, and weren't racing anywhere near the form of Valverde in their advanced age. That's the main beef I have with Valverde, still smugly laughing his way onto the podium despite being 38. Contador was a shell of his former self at 34, ditto for Basso... The next generation deserves better. One may say that their chances will come, but for a race that often favors the classics specialist and the power sprinters, I'm just not sure it's true. Last time there was a course this selective was almost a generation ago...



and some of us know of names such as Gilles Delion, whose promising career (winner of Giro di Lombardia) was robbed short, as he choose to quit instead of partake in blood doping/EPO. Heck, I mispelled his name the first time, and google didn't even have a suggestion for him. That's how anonymous he is.

I'll only say that Valverde is nowhere near as annoying as Vino, but that's not saying much

I didn’t say he wasn’t great. No doubt he’s had an incredible couple of seasons at the twilight of his career. I would have preferred to have seen anyone else in that group win, surely they are also great having finished on the same time.

All the top guys were not doping. Stop using that as an excuse for cheating. Another great Spaniard was overlooked for leadership in the past not because of a lack of ability but because he was known to be clean and outspoken against dopers and those who aided them; couldn’t have him around. Who’d he knock of the podium in ‘03, ‘05, ‘06, ‘12, ‘13, ‘14? Which of his countryman didn’t start at Worlds because of his participation? What of his ‘09 Vuelta win, only weeks before his two year ban?

If a snapshot of the 7 hours of racing today is the only backdrop used for a deserving winner than AV proved to be the best today.

Well on the vino front, I think he was close to Valverde's current age (38) at London 2012 (6 years ago and Vino is 45-49 now). In any case we get another dosage of Vino in 2 weeks at Kona.

i think this is pretty crucial - valverde had been 6 times silver and bronze, once he got himself into a podium position he was always going to do whatever it took to get the right colour. of course he would win a sprint from that group 95% anyway but to me the way he lead it out speaks of how much he was unwilling to risk anyone getting a jump on him. he made sure of it, in particular not wanting to let TD get a chance to sit in and launch.

to me, valverde is a worthy successor to sagan - the more climbing oriented equivalent as a rider that dominates across a variety of races with outstanding consistency and clinical racing. that he had never won worlds was an aberration, though indicative of how unique the worlds race is on the calendar

Fair enough, but can you blame the doping culture on Valverde? Why single him out?

And what is it about Valverde that you find annoying? The guy is not particularly outspoken, he just quietly rides his bike.

If you know exactly when and where he was doping why don't you tell us? Other than Puerto, 13 years ago, what have you got?

I don't see why you feel the need to call out another poster for applauding a great win by a great rider. But obviously you have strong feelings about this.

He was not robbed. He was fully aware the sport is drenched in drugs and they are required to be competitive. A pro cyclist whinging about drugs is like a coal miner whinging about getting dirty. Someone unwilling to put up with a required part of a profession should find another profession.

Singling our Valverde, or anyone else, for the systemic doping problem in cycling is lame.

I'm with Dave on this one.

Nobody is singling Valverde out long term (look at countless names from the past who have been lynched for doping...but he is one and he is now world champion. I would have preferred any of the other 3 in the final selection.

Do you have the same attitude toward Tri given its Pro and AG doping problems...that it is what it is so get on with it and stop bleating?

Yes, Woods ran at Michigan and was very accomplished. He had a rough year personally, and I was really hoping he'd pull it off last night but Valverde has a finishing kick that most of your climber types can't match.

Woods was sub 4 miler to my best recollection, and he loves super steep 20ish percent climb pitches where the tactics and paces become very much like a running race. I would guess that if we got to interview him, he would say that the place he laid the hammer down on the 28 percent to whittle down thee crowd was pre planning for several month. Now we just need him to practice his swim when he comes home. As I mentioned above, when he was running track locally and injured it was one of the local former tri pros who was running with the local track club who hauled Woods out on the bike. Woods was in running shorts and running shoes on a borrowed road bike and dropped all the local studs (as you would expect from a sub 4 guy) on the first climb (a hill that probably tooks him 5 minutes that day)

So do you!

It's weird that Valverde has extroardinary recovery skills at 38. If you look at guys who were all coming off the Tour/Vuelta double, none of them looked quite right. Tom Dumoulin, though he finished well, described himself as a physical wreck after the TT. Dan Martin dropped really early, and this is Martin's kind of racing. Pinot and Quintana missed the final accelerations.

Only the guy peaking at 38 appears totally fine.

He could just have freak physiology. But it's weird. And when combined with Puerto, worth at least some speculation.

I was just waiting for Carl Lewis, Ben Johnson and Denis Mitchell to pop up and contest the finish.

Please, someone to name one by one the pros who are fully clean and the evidence...

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

True, but to be fair Valverde is probably the best rider of his generation with finishes like that, considering his Ardennes accomplishments.

Martin left the Vuelta early to welcome a kid, Pinot has never contested that kind of course well, Quintana has looked great one day this year and Nibali is clearly not at his best. I’m don’t know if Valverde is clean, and share your sentiment about age and recovery. But those other riders don’t indite him either, IMO.

Anyhow, I’m signing off from this thread since it’s turning into another ST shouting match. T-minus six months to spring classics.

There is only one: Saint LeMond, who not only never ever took drugs but was so completely unaware that everyone else in the profession did, including all his teammates on multiple teams, that he had to channel the powers of Hercule Poirot to figure out a multiple grand tour winner was doping--at least that is his story and he is sticking to it.

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