HE is likely having panic attacks, and they will just get worse until he conquers his fears...

And to add how to conquer those fears, go out and do as many OW races he can find. Start slow, settle in, and build to the finish, just like he does in a pool. Get a 1/2 dozen of those under his belt without an attack, and he should be good to go..

He may be having panic attacks, but he also could be going into something like AFIB with RVR or SVT. I can assure you if he has AFIB with RVR or SVT it is not just in his head.

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Thanks monty and Thomas Gerlach for the quick replies. Both make a lot of sense.

I'd encourage him to do as many Open water races as possible. In my area we have a a series that run through summer with distances that range from 500m to 10km.

thanks for the suggestion. makes sense as long as he gets better. The situation seems pretty severe for such a good athlete to run out of breath 2x in a 400m swim.

Enclosed an article

At 60-65 review by a cardiologist and echocardiogram and possibly a stress test could prove useful




https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000146

I was in a similar position when I DNF an event.

Done a bunch of 70.3s and swam lots in lakes, non-choppy waters etc. Had no 'real experience' of the chop.
2 Months prior, I finished a 70.3, in a lake. Granted, no water chops, no mass start ...very nice swim.

Come the day of an Olympic...the swim was in a reservoir. The chop was crazy. I panicked. This was a new environment for me, and the first time I had to call for help and got pulled back to shore hanging on a support boat. I felt I was suffocating, as I couldn't catch a breather.

Long story short, I know hat I have to do. Join an open water squad and take head on the challenge of choppy swims. Get used to the environment. At this stage...i'm still working on it.

I had a similar problem for a few years. I'm a FOP swimmer. My first year of triathlon I bought a wetsuit and raced an OD in it. I didn't know how to out it on, it was possibly too small, it was very tight on the chest. This was the first time I'd swam in a wetsuit. Surfed in wetsuits before, but they are a very different fit. Anyway I shot off when the hooter went off, was good for 200m, then my breathing got hard, I slowed down still couldn't catch my breath, breaststroke, still couldn't, I was treading water almost panicking as I couldn't breath. A kayaker came over to help and after about 2 mins I recovered and started swimming again, coming out near last. This same thing happened on and off for 3 years and increasingly became a bit of a psychological issue. Instead of looking forward to the swim, I started to dread it. That sensation of being unable to breathe would always come on 200/300 into the swim and I would often have to slow right down and sometimes switch to breaststroke to get it under control. This wasn't panic, I've been in the water my whole life, surfing, OWS, squad swimming etc I think it was a combination of a number of things:

- wetsuit too tight, or not put on right.
- going out too hard, HR goes up and because of the compression on your chest from the wetsuit, even slowing down doesn't allow your HR to drop
- psychological effect from the above. Waiting and dreading for the above to happen, it's very panic inducing when you can't breathe and even stopping doesn't help
- I found a full sleeved wetsuit to be quite claustrophobic especially when the breathing issue kicked in, I want to rip it off

So that meant I would always underachieve in the swim, top 20 instead of top 10. I'm good now and am usually top 3 - top 5 out the water. What fixed it for me:

- sleeveless helped, less claustrophobic, although I have both sleeveless and sleeved now
- controlling my start, starting to the left of the pack, starting cautiously, getting my breathing into a rhythm, getting past that 300m stage where I would get a very slight sensation of HR coming up, but it wasn't a problem, because I wasn't gunning it, that would last a minute or so, disappear and then I'd be free to go as hard as I wanted. I could sprint for 400m and not have a problem
- I noticed that sometimes I started I wasn't exhaling underwater either and was hyperventilating a bit, so focusing on your breathing helps
- making sure you put your wetsuit on right

It's really hard to have to start slow and let everyone go, but he needs to do that. Swim by himself, away from the pack, control his breathing, wait till he feels comfortable and then go. A lot of people confuse this issue with panic, not being comfortable in the water or in races with lots of people, which isn't the case at all.

Sounds like your friend is quite the athlete with some lofty goals and the ability to get there. Over the course of my time here on ST, the feedback provided to many of the swimming issues discussed relates back to this fear we have of the environment. Often times we are over confident based on our athleticism and achievements in land based sports and struggle to figure out the aquatic portion of our event.
Mostly the feedback from the "established swimmers" is more confrontational than from those who are more recently introduced to the sport of swimming. But no matter how established as a lifelong swimmer or land-based focused athlete, there is a very real fact that needs to be addressed by anyone looking for improvement.. fear. Accepting it, recognizing it and managing it. In that order.
Cases like this, baring medical issues of course, are sad to hear about for sure, but are definitely fixable! While I would not recommend just jumping into more open water events, and doing more open water swims in group settings, as the way to go.
Your friend needs higher quality interactions with the water. These should be in calm situations. Controlled. Explained. Experienced in a much safer environment than open water racing. Learning to control yourself in the water, emotionally, through physical experiences will open the door to his athletic prowess.
Since the first step is accepting the fear, your friend is already clearly onto step two of recognizing it. So these are great steps toward improvement.
Managing fear is a nonstop challenge. At no point will your friends brain (or yours or anyones) finally give in and say "oh ok great everything is easy now that my face is buried in the water!" We are all survival animals and so the struggle will always be there.
Ive written more about this in an article on my webpage. theundergroundcoach.com
--- please have your friend contact me if either of you would like some more specific help going forward. Best of luck to him!
daved

Tell him to find a waterpolo club

I have the same problem and it’s certainly not due to fitness. It’s psychological inho-a mixture of breathing to fast/to slow and a feeling of uncomfortableness creeps in and then it’s all down hill...

Google "mammalian diving reflex". In short, when certain nerves in the face come in contact with cold water, the body responds by slowing the heart rate and diverting blood from the extremities to the vital organs. When this happens while you're simultaneously trying to swim, and your body needs the exact opposite (to increase HR and blood flow to your limbs), it feels like a panic attack. It's hard to draw full breaths and your arms and legs fatigue easily. I haven't found any consensus on how cold the water actually needs to be - some articles say 70's, others say 60's - but generally I think it depends on how well acclimated you are to colder water.

It happens to me almost every time I race in the ocean, but rarely in lakes and never in the pool. The only thing that helps me is to get a solid warm-up in the water as close to the start of the race as possible. Getting my face underwater, letting the water into my wetsuit, and really getting acclimated to the water temperature. The key is that it has to be right before the start of the race, otherwise my body starts to warm up again and the process starts over when I actually get back in the water. For me it seems like water temps in the upper-60's and colder trigger it but again I think this varies with the individual.

Some of the other things that have been previously mentioned - constricting wetsuit, choppy water, getting hit and kicked - all exacerbate the problem because they add stress and anxiety which further increase your HR while your body is trying to slow it down. It's really frustrating.

I'm going through a similar problem, though it's not because of a wet-suit (I don't have one)

At an Oly earlier this year it happened about 3-5 minutes into the swim. It's kinda like a panic
attack, but really I'd best describe it as an overwhelming desire to just quit swimming.
At that race I started to breaststroke for a couple minutes, calmed my self down and then
finished the swim no problem. Other than a slow swim, I actually had a good race.

I did a HIM a couple weeks after that, and I made a conscience effort to start the swim
slow and under control. That swim went fine, no incidents whatsoever. Finished the swim
in a reasonable time and felt great.

This past weekend I did a local Oly and I knew I had a chance to win my Age-Group. Couple
that with some improved swimming workouts, and I thought I could go out strong on the swim.
I started strong, hanging on the heels of some of the better swimmers, when it happened again.
About 3-4 minutes in, I get this overwhelming desire to quit. I actually started treading water
and turned toward shore and was prepared to swim in and DNF the race. Fortunately I was able to
calm down again, I started breaststroke for a bit, then went back to swimming and felt fine.
My time wasn't even that bad (all things considered).

I think for me, I get a sense of panic when I'm going to hard. My breathing becomes labored from the
hard effort, but I'm not a skilled enough swimmer to slow down and catch my breath while freestyling.
Couple that with my brain screaming at me, "WHY ARE YOU GOING FARTHER AWAY FROM SHORE!" and I just
start to quit.

I'm not sure what to do about it, other than remind myself to start slow, like I did at the HIM.
Or just get more comfortable working hard in an OWS, but I feel like I'm going to have to
figure something out. The one this past weekend had me ready to quit triathlon altogether. I ended
up having a great race, and I don't feel that way anymore, but its definitely weighing on me
regarding my upcoming races.

I’ve done a few HIM swims with no issues. I’ve freaked a bit on sprint swims and the like.

At LOU, I almost got out of the water. I couldn’t get my breath, then realized hyperventilation means you’re getting too much air. I started taking sips of (at about the 400 m marker) air and smiled the rest of the way through the race. I think I figured out my issue, that day.

He's of the older generation and probably old school techniques will work well on him. Take him out on a boat, point at a birdie in the sky, while he's distracted- kick him overboard, and motor back in. It's the OWS version of being tossed into the deep end. He'll figure it out pretty quickly and start swimming like a champ in no time.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

This is VERY typical. Can I ask how much warmup you did. This has happened countless times to me and in talking with some other exceptional athletes, very common. That knowledge helped me overcome as I knew it was not just me. Longer warmups and more open water sessions helped. The key is also to not go out too fast, as much of the field does. Sometimes go out a few minutes, and then relax and let the speed wane a bit to control yourself. Often as in running your pace drop will be very minimal. Doing some open water workout where you change pace dramatically helps too. Put some very hard surges in, and then back off and let yourself recover while going 75%. So much is getting a long warmup and learning how to relax!

I did consider that. At the first Oly I didn't do any swim warmup, however I did some running and light sprinting before hand. At the second Oly I did get a warmup in, but looking back it really wasn't much. I just swam out about 25-50m and then swam back in.

No where near enough. As I said, it's very common even with some very good swimmers. Running is better than nothing, but not the same at all. Frankly, for an Oly I'd probably do most of the course to warm up if I could. Swim very easy, built a bit and then do some short sprints, much like a run only race. That and the knowledge it's very common should ease the symptoms....

For warm-up swimming is best but be flexible. Some races there is no swim warm-up or it's so cold (water or air) the warm-up doesn't really boost the core temps either high enough or long enough. Bike is limiting too as most bike races your bike is racked and not accessible. Running is the best option for establishing your personal routine warm-up before a tri. Run 5-10 minutes time for warm-up and speed/strides to get the heart pumping and the lungs expanded. Beyond the warm-up and once in the race there are other specific things you can choose to prevent or minimize swim issues. Don't over swim the first 100 or so meters to get swim-start remorse, especially in the longer races of half & full. You can loose the race in the first couple of minutes but never win it. Other options are to extend breathing pattern to use up the oxygen already in the body instead of overloading on it and increasing your hyper-ventilation chances. On this one, instead of breathing every right (or left) breath every other right (or left) or every 3rd or 4th stroke, one beyond your normal stroke pattern. Again, this is for a short period of time until you are settled into your race plan. You could also choose to kick a little harder for a brief period to balance out the O2/CO2 as the quads are oxygen sucking muscles. These latter two options are similar to you changing to (back/breast) strokes and getting re-oriented and your gases re-balanced but you don't give up the time or impair your self-confidence for dropping back to your competitors on the swim. Finally, not sure where you train or where you race but changes in altitudes on race days can mess up your plan breathing if not mentally ready to adjust for your swim style. Go easier at start when increasing altitude and go harder or extend breathing pattern if dropping down a few 1,000 feet from training levels. I hyper-ventilated in my very first tri and started towards shore when the panic attack subsided.

It's all a bit unnerving but figure out the in-race solutions to finish relaxed and respectable. Try in practice. Mentalize the tactics before the race. Adopt what works for you.

https://www.palmtreesahead.com/feed
https://www.palmtreesahead.com/tri-50-states

I am a 1:28-1:30/100 LCM swimmer, adult onset so no real experience as a youth swimming.
I get a lot of similar emotions/responses as to MRid below when I swim open water in races. I should be able to nail the swim but often get episodes of panic and a what the hell am I doing out here periods soon after the start of the swim. Lots of times I have just wanted to pack it all in and turn into shore. I have to remember to just calm down, take it a few strokes at a time and then reassess and it normally passes and I can get into a rhythm and go.
I think the keys for me are as follows:
1. Starting a bit too hard and getting out of breath from all the chaos of the start
2. Getting knocked around and put out of rhythm
I don't have any good answers at the moment for what I will do this coming season to help with things. Given I have reasonable speed I still want to be competitive in the swim so I don't want to start at the back. I will likely hang around the sides of the start where I might not get banged around as much and swim my own lines for the first few hundred metres.
It takes a lot of mental fortitude not to give up on the swim when that panic sets in but it is worthwhile thinking that through and visualising what you will do if it does happen.

i'm with zedzed. i'd like to know when he bought his wetsuit he's using now. how long ago.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

This is a timely thread for me. I've done six IMs, about 13 HIMs and a number of sprint and oly races but still find myself anxious at the beginning of each swim start. This past weekend I competed in a sprint race and found myself treading water in a state of panic about 50 yards into the race. No real contact to speak of, but lots of heavy breathing and thrashing about with a really poor stroke. I considered calling to the nearest kayak and ending my race but I gathered myself and finished up the swim. Never did feel comfortable though. Glad to know there are others out there experiencing the same thing, and I appreciate some of the advice posted here.

Probably related is that my open water swims have gotten steadily worse the last year or so. However, my pool swimming has actually improved over that time, where I've gotten both more efficient and faster. I can't reconcile the two - how come my pool stroke isn't carrying over to open water? My OWS swim stroke never feels the same as it does in the pool even in calm water.

i'm no speedy gonzalez. so, don't take my advice as gospel. however, i'm a steady performer, a NEVER dnf the swim, and i DO sometimes fall into the same challenges spoken about in this thread. i'm going to be writing about some techniques this week that i use in open water swimming that some folks may find helpful - esp those who're getting older. well, everybody's getting older. but you know what i mean.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

LOL. I played waterpolo in high school. Yeah. No issues in OWS. Had a black eye once at Lake Stevens. Got kicked in the ribs in Victoria. Had a bloody nose twice. Didn't even slow down.

You can also tell your friend to take up surfing. That'd do it too. Bonus points for finding a locals beach. If he doesn't get beat up he'll be ready for Kona.

Your friend isn’t alone. I also still panic in the water ... after 10 years of Tris and open water (ocean) swimming.

Is there something that triggers it for him? Waves? Swell? Chop? Being surrounded by lots of swimmers?

Last time I freaked was when I could not get past the surf zone and couldn’t see land or anyone else.. hyperventilated but then eventually calmed myself, reminding that I’m a very capable swimmer and flipped over to float on my back until I breathed normally again.

I know of a couple of people who have never had this issue and they grew up being in the ocean all the time, surfing and doing all kinds of water sports. I learned to swim as an adult, 10 years after my first lesson I got over my fear of the deep water. I love swimming in the open water/ocean (!!) but will occasionally still freak out.

Here’s a vid that gave me some good ideas for swim techniques in different conditions ... remind your friend that it may be a mind over matter issue (unless it’s caused by cold water, wetsuit or other factors as other people have noted). I have found that swimming in the open water in all kinds of conditions was the best way I came over my fears. Good luck to your friend.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dRgdEnUYgKI

This is pretty perfect advice, but even before then, I'd be getting him out in the open water as often as possible, be it racing or training.

It's amazing what a bit of time in the open water can do for some people - what a great place to be, anyhow..!

I LOVE swimming and have been swimming all my life, both in pools and open water. I also scuba dive. That said, I HATE triathlon swimming. I am not comfortable with all the thrashing about and dread the swim. I haven't been doing triathlons long, so for me, I know I have to do more practice replicating triathlon swimming (bunch of people all going out at the same time with lots of contact). The contact/hitting other swimmers is what freaks me out. I tend to go into breaststroke until I can get clear, and in a crowded race, that may end up being a lot of breaststroke. I know I just have to practice the "game situation" more.

As a recovering breaststroker, I resemble that comment.

have him go play in the waves. literally.

there much focus on knocking out laps in the pool and assuming it will benefit you, which it will.. but .. doing non-traditional swimming stuff is actually very beneficial as you develop new feels of the water.. examples : water polo, surfing, body boarding, playing in the waves, sharks and menos...get the idea?!

alrighty. i wrote a front page piece, just for your friend.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

There’s a front page? 😜

Great article.
I do this now and again in OW, either to make up for a “missed’” breath, or just to better see what’s going on in the other half of the world I’m not currently looking at.

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float , hammer , and jog

Interesting. First, tell your friend, if he's on ST, that he can feel free to PM me about this. I've written much about my personal issues with panic and have seen patients (professionally) with more serious issues like psvt/paf/SIPE. My own troubles have always started with being an AOS, of course, and simply always feeling constricted with what was recommended as a 'normal fitting' wetsuit. I bought a Helix full and Helix sleeveless in 2012, after teaching myself to swim in late 2011 and wanting to try triathlon. Got into a master's swim group and that and lots of video got me from a BOP (almost dead last in my first triathlon, a HIM) to front MOP in my first IM (my second triathlon, for the record). I had a panic attack/anxiety/constriction issue about every other race over the next several years. And for the record, I have no cardiac or significant pulmonary issues but I'd say that I have some form of 'water anxiety/panic disorder' for sure at this point. I did make many, many rookie mistakes along the way like: not practicing in open water, not putting on the wetsuit multiple times prior to races, not putting on the wetsuit correctly, not using bodyglide...etc...

Now, older athletes certainly need to worry about ischemic heart disease and arrhythmia (as do younger pts) as causing issues in the water, and shortness of breath is often an atypical warning symptom of heart disease, but RARELY does this occur in the water. It is usually something else-panic/anxiety, asthma, wetsuit too small or not put on correctly but occasionally is something bad like SIPE, paf, psvt or other serious cardiac issues. If it happens repeatedly, a proper evaluation with a cardiologist is certainly in order from a risk/reward standpoint, IMO. Swimming induced tachycardia is not uncommon. Monitors of various types for various times can help.

I've personally always had issues putting my face in the water and being comfortable with it. I have marginal swim technique, even after years of this, yet I've improved enough to place in my AG at some races. Even earned an 'elite' spot in our local sprint this year. When I went out with the faster swimmers in that group, I had my usual breakdown mentally after acquiring a few kicks to the chest and being swum over and gotten the wind knocked out of me. Yes, I was hanging on a kayak. A little panic and it's hard to catch your breath. I was on that kayak for what seemed like an eternity and that wrecked my race that day-almost DNF'd. I felt constricted after the kick, had started breathing too fast and was stacking my breaths not getting all of my air out and started to feel panicky. Not a great race and it sounds eerily similar to your friend's experience.

I'm not a bad swimmer at this point. I did casco bay swim/run last year and swam 5 miles in the ocean with a partner, including a mile stretch by ourselves, in 58 degree water. I can swim. But swimming around people and getting nudged messes with my mind. Having a wetsuit on makes it worse.

In my last sprint race, I had just lava shorts and my chest was free. The water was warm enough and I had NO problems. First in my AG. I've ordered an oversized ROKA wetsuit and just got it today, and swam without any constriction issues. Haven't yet tried it in a race, but for the record, I love the way the ROKA suit seems to not constrict as much. The neck seems lower than on my Helix too. I'm 5'8'' and 155 pounds and have a ML. (I almost bought a L)

sizing chart
https://www.roka.com/...372195137#size-chart

For me, it's always important to get a good swim warm up in. I now know that I need 10+ minutes before I start to feel more comfortable in the wetsuit. I also know that I must start slow and relaxed, preferably on the outer edge and get into a rhythm until I feel at ease enough to change my stroke rate and become a more aggressive swimmer. I usually do this by counting down from 100 or whatever the number of strokes needed to hit the first buoy, which I'll count in my warmup.


So, IMO, part of it is the mind and part of it is the feeling of being squished in the neoprene and being uncomfortable and needing to get 'warmed up' both physically and mentally. For others, there may be an underlying arrhythmia, heart disease, lung disease panic/anxiety or something else contributing.

A qualified professional can help. Tell your friend to consider it and wish him good luck from me.

Dale

FWIW - I've had similar experiences to your friend. Usually large mass start races - IM Arizona 2014 and 2015 for example. I leave the start flat out, run out of breath, realize a herd is about to trample me and can no longer breathe. As with your friend, the result is a minute or more hanging on to a kayak.

Here is what works for me -

1. Start to one side. Seeing open water to one side gives me a sense that I can escape the crowd if needed

2. Continuously slow down. As slow as I think I'm swimming in the opening minutes, its still too fast. Lengthen, settle.

3. Found a better wetsuit. Roka works for me. Fits well but not constricting

4. Fog free googles. If googles fog up, panic likelihood goes up

5. Rolling start races. Reduces my personal field to those around me - much more manageable.

6. Got marginally better at swimming. Probably the least important lever..

Good luck!

How would the average bear know if was getting too little or too much air in these situations?

too little? your face turns blue. too much? if you don't need any more air i think you'll know it and you'll breathe less often. don't overthink it. the only time i breathe on consecutive strokes is if i'm getting hypoxic.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Maybe I asked a good question in a dumb manner.

I think I was hyperventilating at the beginning of LOU. I hadn’t swum far enough to be oxygen deficient. I don’t think I was over-exerting myself.

Do you think most issues with panic are due to hyperventilating or oxygen deficiency?

i don't have enough evidence to answer that. but let me ask you this: what is your warmup like? preswim?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

In 4 HIMs (and two additional 1.2 m swim timed events), I’ve been able to warm up (swim) in 2/4 HIMs and both timed 1.2s. 5/6 we’re wave starts. I had an issue on one of the timed 1.2s and one rolling start HIM. LOU was also a rolling start.

If I’m allowed to warm up (swim) - I do. But, I don’t run/exercise before a rolling start.

IMO, hyperventilating and stacking their breaths likely occurs more frequently and leads to anxiety/panic.
(this still happens to me when I'm not relaxed and blowing all my air out early on in a race, and keeping the pace within myself-
especially when I'm not warmed up enough and feeling constricted in my wetsuit)

Getting sucked into a pace that's too fast likely occurs less frequently, but can also be followed by 'issues' of anxiety/panic...

In the first case, there is not an increased workload as the driving force, it's breathing inappropriately and feeling anxious being in the wetsuit
In the latter, there is an increased workload adding to the stress of breathing (and possibly leading to anxiety)

It's awfully hard to calm down once very anxious. In the past, I'd have to flip on my back and totally get control of my breathing before continuing on.

*edited to add:
but we're talking about anxiety/panic and sometimes there is something very real, like psvt/paf that is the driving force-and we don't know if the OP's
friend has something else going on or not

My son's PSVT (at age 23) goes ~240 bpm and he not only would not be able to swim well, but also he feels panicky/anxious and like crap until the rhythm rights itself

what is your experience with races and warmup capacity? me, i always warm up in the water, swimming, prior to the start. i'm out in the water at least 20min prior to when i commence the race. if i'm not allowed a warmup, highly unlikely i'll register for that race.

but that's me. if you're asking me about hyperventilation, or getting too keyed up prior to the start, one big way to inoculate yourself from that is the warmup. so, which among your races are you not allowed to warm up? and when you are allowed to warm up, what is your warm up protocol? how early are you in the water prior to your start? what is your discipline here?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Thanks for your reply.

One thing’s for certain about me and wetsuits. I’m WAY more at-ease IN one. 😀

Do you think most issues with panic are due to hyperventilating or oxygen deficiency? //


I think it would be pretty hard to hyperventilate while you are racing hard. Your body has a need for a certain amount of air, your lungs try and supply it. If they cannot supply enough, then it might seem like you are hyperventilating, but in reality you are just behind the eight ball because of a pace that was too stiff, and gasping for air.

Dan asked about the warm up because this can affect greatly the speed with which you can go out, and not go into this kind of panic, rapid breathing pattern. If you do a really stiff warm up where you get to a place you would get to doing 400 repeats on the track, then you are ready. If you just go out and jog or swim easy, the rest of what you need for a warm up is going to come in the beginning 400 yards of the race, not where you want it to come..

An interesting point regarding the warmup. And in retrospect, even when I did Casco Bay, with no swim warmup, we ran a few miles in our S/R wetsuits and I was able to get into the 58 degree ocean wearing a constricting wetsuit with all kinds of stuff strapped onto me and yet swam relatively quickly without panic/anxiety.

Doing a run warm up may in fact be significantly helpful prior to swimming.

when larry creswell and his team did their big study on deaths in triathlon, and came up with their best practices recommendations, providing for a warm up was, to my recollection, in there. i'm not saying that the lack of a warmup means you'll die in the swim. just, my admonition, don't be that guy who picks an outlier case, or a particular anecdote, and build a thesis around it.

i've done plenty of races where i didn't get a warmup. i remember doing worlds toughest half, swimming in a 51 degree lake. no thanks to a warmup! i also remember three or four years ago the fellow who jumped off the ferry in alcatraz, died of a heart attack not long thereafter, and was described as being nervous, keyed up, pre-race. hard to assign causation. and, of course, it's hard to allow for a warmup in that race (or in norseman or any other ferry drop).

i've raced plenty of races that had dangerous road conditions. the fact that i didn't die on a dangerous bike course doesn't mean that dangerous bike courses aren't dangerous. maybe we'll find out that warmups in the swim aren't helpful (medically helpful). but my sense tells me otherwise.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I'm totally agreeing with you Dan. I think a swim warm up is certainly best practice, for sure. I'm just saying, if a venue doesn't allow a swim warm up, then a run warm up could be quite viable. Or if a swim start gets delayed...

If you read any of my post above, you'll see that I said that I personally need > 10 minutes of a swim warm up to get comfortable in a stupid wetsuit. I'm not recommending ANYONE forgo one.

It might be neither, and a breath timing issue. Like Dan, I'm a fan of more as opposed to less breathing/air.

I'd work on in the pool sorting out where your exhalation is best prior to turning your head to breathe. It's common in clinics for the instructor (or even some coaches in a non-clinic setting) to say that you should slowly breathe out somewhat continuously. Hum. Blow Bubbles, etc. Then when you turn your head to breathe, you only have to inhale.

My experience is that when some athletes do that AND try to breathe every 3rd or whatever, they run out of air before they need a breath. So they rush to breathe and end up gasping for air.

The other alternative is the swimmer who ends up holding their breath the entire cycle and then tries to exhale and inhale when turning the head. There's too much going on there.

Work on having a big exhalation right before you turn your head to breathe. I find myself exhaling just before I turn my head to breathe. My breathing pattern is typically every 3rd when swimming easy or pulling with a double breath (one on each side) into a turn. When I go faster, like IM speed, I'm breathing 2 on side, three strokes, 2 on the other. When I'm going faster still I might be breathing every 'other stroke' as Dan calls it on the front page...right or left side exclusively. I'll sneak in a double breath...on on each side consecutively...as well during faster swimming.

But I find that working on the timing of the exhalation and breathing pattern is a good way to find the right balance.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

I'm a psychologist and see this (not in a professional capacity) pretty often. I would recommend he look for a sport psychologist in his area. If qualifying is his goal it will be worth the money.

I had one of these panic attacks at the WTS Bermuda race in April. I had done the pre-race swim the day before, albeit without a wetsuit, without issues. Race day was wetsuit legal so, I wore a wetsuit. The race allowed basically zero warmup because it was a deep-water start after entering from the pier. The "warmup" was limited to the 50 yard swim to the start line. At about 200 yards, my chest started feeling constricted and I had trouble breathing. It took several hundred yards to get under control.

I had a repeat incident at AG Nationals earlier this month. Different wetwuit but with several minutes of warmup immediately before the start. Again, about 200 yards out, I had constriction issues which eventually subsided.

I did a 1/2 mile swim this past weekend in the same wetsuit with the same amount of warmup and had no issues. Quite perplexing.

I tried the single stroke breathing today in the pool. That will take some practice to become comfortable doing in OW.

Had a similar "chest is constricted, can't breathe, going to die" panic experience in my first open water oly. Thankfully I was able to push through it but I quickly learned that I had to train for that feeling.

The most important thing was frequently (almost every workout) putting myself in that same situation in the pool. Jacking my HR up by doing deck ups and jogging in place and then diving in and immediately swimming a hard 25 or 50 and repeating was a great drill. Learned how to swim with a high HR and manage that feeling of panic. (Thanks, coach!)

Other things that helped (but not as much):
1. Fully exhaling
2. Getting my wetsuit nice and wet prior to starting
3. Trying to go slow on take out
4. Playing rugby and not minding being hit once in awhile :)

Take with a grain of salt as I am a MOP AOS...but learning to love the swim.

I haven’t done an IM branded race yet that allowed a swim warmup.

Again, if I’m allowed a swim warmup, I get in and warm up. I’ve never not finished a swim, but I’ve gotten panicky on wave and rolling States. I’ve also had wonderful swims where no warmup was allowed.

Interesting topic.

i think streaming starts help, in races that don't allow a warmup. the gold standard is a warmup area. absent that, some sort of dryland warmup, okay, i don't really have a protocol for that. i raced a streamed start last week, i find that much to my preference. i'll be interested to see what eventual safety data we get out of streamed starts once the dataset is large enough.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Congrats on the swim triumph

That is sometimes better than anything else

💪

Thanks for the article Dan. And everyone else, thanks for the tips, some good stuff in this thread.