What's the legal precedence on stuff like this? There's gotta be some history of person A doing something to person B that results in person B being hurt or killed. Shoving or tripping someone on the sidewalk causing them to stumble into a passing car. throwing something at your buddy on a bike or skateboard and they swerve and crash.

I don't think this is any different, legally: there are certain things where you know what you're doing is a little risky to the person you're doing it to but you do it anyway. Should there be consequences? I'd say so, though it shouldn't be a harsh sentence because there was no intent.

 
Saw that earlier this week. Dumb beyond belief to push someone off from that height, I would be pissed as shit if I were the one pushed. I think you are probably right that a civil judgement makes more sense, but it really doesn't teach the pusher any sort of lesson. Her parent's homeowners policy will pay out, and she will go on her merry way. Couple months worth of weekend trash picking would make more of an impression IMO.

hellll no. I've jumped off a couple bridges and dove off the 10meter but nothing that high. That is pure irresponsibility. The 18 year old must be as dumb as a rock.

I dont know about jail time as I dont think there is any criminal intent. Civil case.. hell ya. Just an incredibly dumb thing do to.

I'm going to guess that it is the parents of the girl who are pushing for the jail thing and escalating, not the teen.


Not that it changes anything about how the case should be handled.

.

I know it’s how we do it, taking the outcome into account, but that has never seemed right to me. The girl did what she did, and if it warrants punishment so be it. But what she did doesn’t change if the faller was unharmed, maimed or even killed. Her actions remain the same, the outcome is really just chance.

The girl who pushed her is clearly pissed off that it is taking too long and pushed her not as a jokey "haha, I pushed you" but of a "Get the fuck out of my way". Watch how she slams her hands down on the railing right before she pushes her. That isn't someone who is just goofing around (IMO). I would say if it were 2 kids just having fun that is one thing, but this looks like something else.

Community service hours, unless 18 y/o has violent history, lack of remorse, etc.

Even if just goofing around, 18 y/o needs a lesson,but I'm not sure that means jail.

Either way that girl is a complete dumbass.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Sounds about right to me. These two were friends and teenage brains are still in development and prone to irrational decisions.

Community service hours, unless 18 y/o has violent history, lack of remorse, etc.

Even if just goofing around, 18 y/o needs a lesson,but I'm not sure that means jail.

Either way that girl is a complete dumbass.

I agree with this as well. She should be charged and do some community service as a wake up call for her and perhaps discourage another person from a similar action.

My wife’s niece lost her stepbrother to an incident of ‘car surfing’ where one rides on top of a moving car as if they’re surfing. Hit the brakes, he flew off the car and cracked his head then his drunken friends drove him to an Urgent Care and dropped him off. Last I heard no criminal charges were filed because the other kids either aren’t talking or aren’t consistent with their stories. They’re all 20 yr olds.

Youngsters do some really dumb things.

I can understand the inability of the pushing girl to foresee the full consequences of her actions, especially after watching others jump from the bridge w/o issue. But, it is frightening to consider this short-sightedness when we consider all the things to which these teenage brains have access.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Maybe 24 hours in jail, followed by community service? That way, and with a minimal time sentenced, the specter of "Jail Time" is placed into other kids' minds, which might have more effect that some non-jail punishment.

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War is god

Man. I once jumped off a rock about 30 feet up and had my hands out when I hit the water. Hurt like hell.

Can't imagine what a 60 foot belly flop feels like.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Lucky for us this chick did the research and we don't have to do it ourselves.

Turns out it busts you the fuck up and almost kills you.

I've done the jump from too high and about halfway down you realize it was a realllllyyy bad idea and it was going to hurt. But mine was probably more in the 20 to 30 foot range. You have a long time to say oh shit on the way down from 60 feet.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

30 feet up doesn't look so high when you are below it. When you are up on the rock about to jump... it looks very very high.

Took about 10 seconds for me to man up and jump.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I've done what I was told was 45-50 feet. Had combat boot on, so, I didn't get a sting. But, it was very jarring.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Just let it slide.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

That's what she said.

We need to come to a consensus on this idea of the not fully developed teenage brain, and what that means regarding consequences for bad actions. We have 18 year old Soldiers and Marines carrying weapons around the desert and in the mountains and trusted to act under pressure in a coordinated fashion with their teammates. teenagers brains may not be fully developed, but they're not toddlers.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Completely agree.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

 i'd go for Old Testament rib-for-rib -- and one of her own parents has to do the smiting.

Seriously, yes, kids are idiots, but community service is a joke. Make her clean floors in an ER for a month.

Broken ribs hurt like a mofo and she's going to be knackered for 2-3 months by this.

I'd want someone to "pay" for this too. But sending people to prison for being young and dumb is not the right answer. I'm just thinking of all the dumb as fuck things i did as a (usually drunk) teenager. Scary.

Agreed

That’s exactly where my head went as well. Pusher is 18. She can drive, vote, enter into a contract, and serve in the military. Many argue she should be able to drink as well.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I saw this story on the news and it is scary as shit watching her get shoved. It wasn’t a push it was a flat out shove.

The one who fell said she “wants her to go jail to think about what she did”. The pusher was claiming her friend said to pusher her. Which if it was the case that seemed like an angry push. Either way at that height IDC if you are only 18. You still know better then to shove someone like that. I can’t believe she survived.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

I think we have come to a consensus. We know 18 y/o brains can be trusted to act under pressure in a coordinated fashion -- I'd bet on the 18 year olds with guns over rock steady guys like ourselves -- and we know they can be short sighted at times. I don't think we can make this issue simpler than it really is.

I completely agree. In the reddit thread about this, they had some info that the girl was indeed waiting in line and pissed. It was not a funny haha type of thing. What's wrong with criminal and civil charges?

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~Brad

If an 18 year-old boy does this there wouldn't be nearly as much support for leniency. I don't know what the correct level of punishment is for this but she committed a pretty reckless and brainless act, 18 is old enough to face some real-world consequences, in fact it's a good age to teach a tough lesson that actions have consequences and to think before you act.

Jail time? I wouldn't go that far. But as someone else said having her spend time in an ER might be a good lesson to not do stupid shit.

https://abcnews.go.com/...nt/story?id=57238510

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~Brad

Any person, regardless of age, can be short-sighted at times. That's not a characteristic that is specific to teenagers. My concern is the growing idea that people in their late teens and early twenties are somehow not responsible for their actions because their brains are not as fully developed as someone in their thirties or forties.

Late teens is plenty old enough to understand the concept of action and consequence. It's plenty old enough to be able to think ahead and make a basic risk assessment. Teenagers for as long as I can remember fail to do that, because they are young and impulsive; I get that. But we used to hold them accountable anyway, and it seems like now we're moving towards delaying teaching them that their actions have consequences, no matter how well developed your brain might be.

18 is old enough to vote for the leadership of our country. It's old enough to chose to serve in the military, and old enough for us to trust you to do so with loaded weapons or fingers on buttons. It's two years past being old enough to operate a motor vehicle on our roads. It's old enough to chose to have sex or to marry. It's plenty old enough to know that if you push someone off a bridge, they could get hurt. And it's plenty old enough to suffer significant consequences for failing to assess that risk appropriately, or for failing to make a sound decision.

If we continue in a direction where we delay the moment when people have to face adult consequences, we're going to continue to have people who are older and older and not able to behave like adults.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I find it fascinating that, in the article, they have a blown up shot of the girls with their faces blurred out. Yet they have several other pics and videos (including the vid that gave them the blurred out shot) that show both of the girls clearly and repeatedly.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I would argue that they shouldn’t be able to do any of those things.

21 across the board if I was King of the World.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Adults can’t even handle that one.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

This is the opposite of snowflakes.

21 before you can drive? Drink?

Clearly rules for the latter are working so well in the US...

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Yup. Teens are idiots. Either that or make it 16 across the board.

Why is it different ages for everything? You can drive at 16, vote at 18, die for your country 18, drink at 19... it's stupid.

Pick one age. That's the age you are old enough to do everything.

I would pick 21. YMMV.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

People need to get to work or school. Limiting driving to 21 would be a shit show in areas where public transit isn't great. Driving should be 16.

Drinking should be 18, along with voting and military service. Teens will drink regardless, so, doesn't make much sense in my eyes to make that age later. Honestly I'd be fine with a legal drinking age of 16. Plenty of places have that without the binge drinking culture we have in N. America.

If I were king...

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Then make your public transit better. Or better yet, encourage cycling (TTSTTTF) or do what other countries do, allow access to things like Vespas with tiny motors. You want to get to work and you are 18 years old? Fine... you can have a 50CC vespa.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

This story was more interesting before seeing the video. Like the 16 year old, I accepted that it was just an accident and didn't warrant prosecution. But upon seeing the video, yeah, totally not an accident. I would be shocked if she isn't prosecuted.

There are a plethora of statistics showing auto accidents drop dramatically with the increase in drinking age. There is very little (if any) doubt that underage drinking will always take place. But, there is more care with it being illegal. We know young people make bad decisions. When the drinking age across the US was 18, those bad decisions included driving to/from the bar, which caused drunk driving to skyrocket.

The car culture in the US is not comparable to any places in Europe, where the drinking ages have been lower forever. It is the fact that everyone and their brother has a car and drives even short distances that causes the US to have issues.

I'm not advocating one way or another, just pointing out these facts that are well established.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Yeah that would be fantastic in February.

Bundle up.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Kids do stupid shit. Frankly, the way I drove when I was 16, its a miracle I didn't kill anyone.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Gotta think convenience and judeo-christian principles.

Parents don't want to drive their damn kids all over the place day and night so driving age is 15 or 16. However, we can't have anyone drinking the devil's juice especially at the critical juncture when we are trying to get them fully indoctrinated into religion. By the time they are 21 they should be fully committed and thus will choose not to drink at all.

Devil's lettuce? Furgheddaboudit.

Has nothing to do with safety.

Personally I think it is a safety issue. Drunk driving accidents dropped significantly once they raised the drinking age.


The problem is, the US infrastructure is set up for driving, so while Europeans might be able to drink at younger ages and handle it, they are walking home or taking trains from the bars. In the US, people tend to drive.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I actually wouldn't be opposed to, say, new drivers only allowed to drive a vehicle with so much power, engine displacement/ weight, or something along those lines.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I saw this update today (link to CNN article). Looks like the judge and I are of a similar mind. Two days in jail followed by 38 days on a work crew.



By the way, who names their kid "Tay'lor" with an apostrophe? Seems like foreshadowing to me.

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War is god

Wow, she was crying like a baby. You'd think she got 20 years, not 2 days. I guess it's good to see a little remorse.

Wasn't that part of the problem also? The victim wasn't too concerned until she saw that the other girl was acting like an ass.

"Pretty shooken up..."

Now I'm thinking it might be genetic...

No one knows the details, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if the "close friendship" was a narcissistic alpha witch and her insecure younger "friend" that she keeps around.

The younger girl may have realized this after getting shoved off the bridge.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Seems like many young women that age are frenemies.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR