Doesn't bother me. But, I guess if it did... I'd ask them to take a pull, and share the load.

Most of the time, I get a "thanks for the ride!" when they peel off.

Haha you need to ride around the bay here in Melbourne Australia. It appears to be a given right and expected. Then what pisses me is at a traffic light they stop several yards back so they don't have to acknowledge you but jump straight back on as soon as it turns green. I don't mind if they do say hi and acknowledge me in some way but it seems rare. Sometimes I speed up and then slow right down and laugh as they keep following.

Depends. Out in the middle of nowhere it bugs me a bit. On the multi-use trail commuting to or from work it is the norm. Sometimes pace lines full of strangers form, but more often due to wide ranges in strength and narrow busy trails it is just one guy giving everyone a tow.

Last week I spent 2 miles sucking the wheel of an ebike going up a false flat. Got me home a couple minutes early. I guess I could have yelled up to him to see if that was fine with him, but I am sort of shy.

Doesn’t really bother me. Sometimes I might speed up and try and drop them depending on my mood.

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Matt

I take the desert tortoise approach in these situations. Start peeing as soon as someone gets close. Works every time lol.

If I'm dehydrated I'll blow a few snot rockets. Gets the point across. If I wanted passengers, I'd have invited them.

In all seriousness, it depends. I live in a rural area so if I cross paths with someone we typically chat for a few minutes and end up riding together until our routes inevitably split. Never have had a bad experience with this. Part of our Midwest charm in WI, I guess :)

I don't mind if but if I ever didn't want someone on my wheel, I'd just talk to them.

Was thinking the same thing. On Beach rd you almost have to work hard to NOT ride next to someone

It doesn't bother me too much, but if I'm feeling good I always speed up and make them work for it.

I really dont understand why it botherd people so much. On my 17-20 k mcommute sometimes i suck wheel if im tired or other things. Often on the way home i have 3-4 other people behind me pacing them. I think its fun and a sign that you are faster than them.

But i actually really like when im out riding to tey and find someone that goes so much faster than me that i have to work really hard to hang on and see for how long i can hang. Really fun game to add intensity to my rides.

I find it to be really disrespectful if they hop on and don’t at least say hi. I don’t mind them sucking my wheel (my GF hates it because she think guys have an ego problem when they see a long blonde braid pass them) but I expect them to at least be friendly. If not I can always twist the screws a little deeper for them. :)

Some days I don't care, some days I pass and tell them to hop on. If I want to ride alone I sit up and ask if I'm holding them up, moving to the side so they can pass.

I do think its douchey if people hop on then pass later without a hello or thanks.

So what is the correct etiquette?

If I ride up behind someone who is going reasonably quickly I might sit on for 2 or 3 minutes and then overtake with a nod and a "morning dude" and give them the chance to take my wheel if they want.

Is this correct?

Correct etiquette:

“Nice ass dude/dudette, mind if I suck your wheel for a bit?”

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===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

If it's on a long commute, that's even sketchier to me, but probably because of where I live. Sure, if there're dozens of commuters going from light to light on a main road, I don't consider that sucking wheel on purpose.

I have no problem pace lining and enjoy the company when I'm in the mood, but when they just sit there not saying anything it feels similar to what I'd feel if they they were tailgating me while I'm driving on an empty road. Except instead of having to go speed limit I end up just getting rid of them by speeding up and holding the watts.

Really don’t understand why this bugs people so much, did a 5h solo ride this week in 34° and hit a bit if a low spot after about three hours and was passed by two guys riding together. I latched on for maybe 2-3 min and got som energy back, then i sped up and passed them and thanked them.
Sometimes when someone takes my wheel I’ll speed up to f with them a bit, but really idgaf if they are following as long as they don’t go too close.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I would be so shocked to see another cyclist I would probably strike up a conversation and freak them out

Ah, Beach Rd...

Where whenever you roll past an individual or group and they'll jump on the back and not attempt to even take a pull. But they will always sprint into Mordy.

Every.
Sodding.
Time.

I detest unknown wheelsuckers. If I wanted to play draft-pack I'd be a roadie. I'm not. Even if the draftee is the one bearing the majority of the risk of crashing, I couldn't ride away in good conscience if they turn out to be dumbasses and crash, so their existence back there is a presence on my mind. And it's a distracting presence where I now have to ride to ride as a safe close-in draft horse instead of just riding, and constantly need to check if they're still there. It feels as rude and uncomfortable as someone walking one step behind you when you're walking down the street. If you're going to draft off me, I had better have known your name before you rolled out the door.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

I haven’t seen another biker in years so don’t have this situation

A chap joined the road I was on as I past a junction. I was going quite fast and thought he wouldn't get on. Anyway bit further down the road launched a snot rocket over my shoulder and out of the corner of my eye I caught a glimpse of him right on my wheel. Annoyingly the snot missed. Waited till the next flat and dropped him.

I don't like people being around me. If I ever get a wheelsucker I drop them too. Thankfully being big I can put a big burst of power down, if they can keep up they will use pass me to make a point. Either way they get out of my space

I was doing intervals on a trail yesterday and passed an electronic assist bike on a downhill, he then decided to sit on my wheel and draft me which really annoyed me as A) I don't believe these moto-bikes should be on bike trails. B) my confidence of bike handling skills with people on e-bikes is not high especially because they have to negotiate the draft while using a motor when they probably have never gone that fast on a bike before. He never said anything to me but I didn't want to slow and stop my interval to let him pass.

I always find it a bit strange the folks that get all worked up about this!

If someone does that to me - great, sit on my wheel all you like. At some point I'll turn around and say "Hi. I'm Steve. Nice riding with you. Care to take a pull?"

If I come up on someone - I'll sit in, and then come around and ride side by side if safe, intro myself, and ask them if we can ride together?

Generally speaking most roadie types are all cool with this.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

They can sit in as long as they want. It doesn't really affect me. So long as they don't expect me change my behavior because they are suddenly behind me, like point things out such as potholes or gravel, I don't care.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I don’t mind if someone jumps on my wheel but I’d like to get a heads to that you’re still there so I’m aware. And please, please DO NOT half wheel me! Had someone do that to me today and when I was about to turn I had to turn around and tell him since he was so close.

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Twitter - Instagram

How do you feel if someone wordlessly moves one step behind you and follows you tight as you walk around? It feels the exact same to me.

It doesn't help that most wheelsuckers are incredibly obnoxious about it. For example, if one settles on my wheel and I sit up to force them past because I don't want them there, some are happy to sit on my wheel as I coast from 20mph to 10mph and still sit there when I'm clearly not interested in being a draft horse. Rude.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

It doesn't help that most wheelsuckers are incredibly obnoxious about it. For example, if one settles on my wheel and I sit up to force them past because I don't want them there, some are happy to sit on my wheel as I coast from 20mph to 10mph and still sit there when I'm clearly not interested in being a draft horse. Rude.


In 30+ years of riding, I've never encountered anything like this.

Do you road race? Do you group ride with accomplished road cyclists or triathletes?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

No road racing; as I said upthread (though not chastising you for not remembering) I do tri in large part because I want nothing to do with drafting or being drafted by people I don't know and trust.

I must ask though, have you ever had someone hop on your wheel and coasted to get them off? If you're a road racer happy with that situation then of course you'd never notice if someone on your wheel would refuse to get off, because you're not sitting up to try to force it.

These particular drafters occur in Austin, both out on Parmer and on the COTA bike nights. I can't tell you a thing about whether the people in question are accomplished roadies or triathletes because, as mentioned, my issue with them is I have no idea who they are or what their skill level is. It does happen quite regularly however. On occasions that I ride in a group, the people I ride with are far more accomplished than I am and I'm perfectly comfortable in close quarters as a result.

Now if someone asked permission first (and I mean before latching on, not a "thanks" after peeling off), I'd probably trust them more. The ghost that suddenly and silently appears on my wheel? I hate that person.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

in NYC coming back from the standard weekend ride on 9w there is a 7 mile stretch, after all the hills are done, and its stlightly downhill. My favorite thing to do is to be TTing there, and pick up a large team that I've never met before and see them all working really hard to stay on my wheel. I love it. I definitely try not to drop and try to point things out, just like its someone I knew.

I always get some attaboys and thank yous... and I love getting the comment that "I didn't know triathletes could ride like that" :)

I’ll admit to wheel sucking once.

Final road section at the end of a 100km XC MTB ride which was necessary to get from trail to home. Riding a hardtail 29er.

Came up to a T junction as a group of roadies went past. Next part of road was a causeway, usually pretty bad headwind, about 3km log section.

Hooked straight on to the back of the train...Let the back guy know I was there however. I was gassed and didn’t feel like busting my arse in to headwind.

Yeah. I often pull over and slow down. But half these losers go slower after passing me, so I encounter them again.

Sometimes I ignore them, and one time I did that it was three guys behind me for a bit. I rode as I normally do when alone, including going over some bad pavement by just ligthening myself on the bike (no swerving). At which point I heard the sound of bikes crashing and some yelling. Losers.

The crashing above was on that stretch of road.

A friend of mine stopped for a red light In Central Park some years ago (at West 81st Street crosswalk, due to pedestrians waiting to cross) and some clown drafting him without permission hit him, with my friend breaking a collarbone.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I don't mind unless they are from a local club called the Racing Greyhounds. 90% of them are jerks to everyone riding on the road and piss off the local traffic.

I will slow way down. Then speed way up. Maybe stop. If all else fails I have race experience with peeing on the bike

Because I do not trust most people cycling experience and if they aren’t paying attention and I stop I’m going to get hurt.

Pass or drop back. Side by side to say hi

I am never a fan when someone just jumps right on. How hard is it to chat someone up and just ask. To me it is safety thing, if they don't understand why it is important to ask then the really don't have the experience level in my opinion to where I am going to be confident in knowing what they might or might not do. Common courtesy to ask.

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Doesn't it matter what distance you are hanging back? Often I come across people I don't know and I'll never go right to their wheel but sit 10-15 feet back so I still get some draft, but I'm not all up in their business and am able to respond if they make unannounced maneuvers (because I didn't get any agreement to ride with them).

Talk to them. Say hi. Make new friends.

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

Sucking wheel is almost the norm here in bike crazy norcal. And I love it. It's a tacit sign of your strength when someone latches on.

I wouldn't do this outside of a bike crazy area like norcal, but here it's awesome , makes a borig solo ride a lot more fun as the gravy train gets longer and the speed goes up and up!

If someone is competent, they will introduce themselves. The proper method (imo) when coming up behind is to pull alongside, say "hi", then "where you headed...mind if I sit in?".

PS "Half wheeling" refers to, on an easy group ride, riding slightly ahead of the person on your side, encouraging them to speed up.

As others have said, it’s a safety thing. If I wanted to do a group ride, I would do a group ride. The people who suck wheel are risking the safety of the individual at the front and themselves. You don’t know what route he’s planning to take, if he’s doing intervals, or if he is going to make a sudden stop. And it is not the responsibility of the person in front to announce themselves of up coming turns, slowing, debris, potholes, etc. Now if you ask right at the beginning and the individual is ok with it, then I would expect the person at the front to announce those things.

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blog

Actually there is a much simpler way to get rid of wheelsuckers. Simply put out few farts in regular time intervalls, preferably smelly, and they will be gone.

Would you do that if someone started following one step behind you on foot? I want to ride my bike in calm zen, not thinking about the jackass who's freeloading and too lazy to ask if I mind.

And someone drafting you isn't a sign of strength; I have less power on the bike than most of you. It's a sign that the drafter is lazy and rude.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

I prefer that someone acknowledge and ask to share pulls.

I had someone latch onto my wheel once, but I did not know he was there. (I am somewhat hearing impaired and do not wear hearing aids when riding). He crashed into me and went down hard. Could have taken me down.

Couple of years later, I was just returning to cycling after being rear-ended by a car on a bike ride. A guy latches onto my wheel and I was just super uncomfortable having someone I do not know on my wheel, so stopped and asked him to desist as I was uncomfortable. In both cases, I feel that it was this male testosterone "let me jump on that fast moving bike" and show him. I have never seen a woman do that.

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Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike

Oh man that’s terrible luck! I was actually doing intervals and figured when I went on my easy recovery he’d pass. But nope, he was still there. I honestly wouldn’t have minded but he didn’t even acknowledge me when we were stopped at a light even after him being on my wheel for a while. Oh well!

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Twitter - Instagram

Doesn't bother me commuting, when it's more likely. What normally happens commuting, is some MAMIL on a race bike with big calves will come mashing it past, get 100m up the road, and then blow-up :-)

On training rides, it's normally pretty quiet, and on the occasions I have caught people, it's rare for them to be able to hold my wheel; but when they have, they do normally say thanks afterwards. In fact once, a roadie drafted me for a bit, then muttered something as he dropped me on a short incline, then blew-up (see above), I caught him again after about 2 miles and then he drafted me again for another 6-7 miles until I turned off! That was a bit lame on his part.

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29 years and counting

If it is unannounced wheel sucking I won't welcome it and will either charge up the next hill or sit up, I have been injured by other's poor bike handling before and it is such a lousy way to get hurt. On the other hand if someone asks and seems coherent I am happy to give them a tow. A few years ago I came across a guy I knew from a local club here in NYC who had bonked on his way back home on 9W. Good karma with the wheel gods.

If someone jumps on my wheel unannounced, I'll usually just slow down and they'll go around me. More often than not, I'll pass them again but most people get the point and won't jump back on.

I'd rather avoid the sucking strangers.

Who knows how well they handle group riding. Some dude on a tri bike in aero riding your wheel inches away and you swerve for a rock and he hits you? Almost as bad as the distracted driver. You don't know how they will react.

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

I don't bother to drop them any more unless it's an interval I was planning on doing anyway. If they're inches from my wheel I'll ask them to move back. If they're a few feet or more away and riding sensibly then it doesn't really bother me, though I would always prefer they ask or at least say hello before doing it. Context is important - if you're on roads with plenty of cyclists then it's fairly normal behaviour, but if you're in the middle of nowhere and riding along just the 2 of you it's pretty weird not to say something! I actually get much more bothered when somebody decides to pull in right in front of me - that's much more presumptuous as it messes with whatever workout I was planning. It's also more dangerous for me - when a rider crashes into another one from behind the rider in front is generally fine.

I rarely wheel suck myself as if I'm riding solo I generally prefer to stick to my own plan. Did have an exception last month when I was riding with friends in the Italian Alps and a rider came past us on a climb in head to toe Katusha kit (right down to team bike, gloves, socks, shoes, etc). Assumed it was a pro and since there was only about 3-4km to the summit I decided to follow and see if I could hang on to the top. Kept a respectful distance of about a bike length back, exchanged a few pleasantries in broken Italian including a "grazie!" at the top. Had a look on Strava Flyby later and turned out it was Ian Boswell, I'm 100% sure he was riding zone 2/3 and could have dropped me like a stone whenever he wanted but hope he didn't mind the company on what otherwise looked like a long and lonely training ride!

That’s cool - from the podcast he seems like a fairly chill dude. Neat to say you hung with him!

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

You seem to have some sort of insecurity about your butt!

Someone jumps on my wheel unannounced quite often. If they are just drafting, I have no problem with it and I will start pointing out potholes and signaling when I am turning and slowing just like I would in group. The only time it bothers me is when they either try to take a pull or race me on the hills. If I am outdoors, I am usually trying to hold a long steady power intervals. Often some roadie will jump on my wheel on the flat, hammer the next hill passing me, and then coast the downhill where they are no longer sucking my wheel, they are getting in my way and forcing me to change my power. Repeat this for three or four hills and I start to get annoyed. That or they will jump ahead of me to take a pull and maintain our speed forcing me to drop my power.


Haha that is awesome. Do you regret speaking broken Italian only to later find out he speaks english?

Definitely "hung onto" not "hung with"!

This.

I really don't get the attitude to be a dick and just fuck with them, without at least engaging first. What's wrong with just talking to the wheelsucker? If someone doesn't want them there...say so. Maybe they don't know better. I would find it truly bizarre to ask someone NOT to wheelsuck, and have them ignore my request. In 24 years of training in multiple states, I've NEVER had someone IGNORE a conversation on the road, or a request to go solo.

If they are a weaker, less experienced rider....take a minute to teach them the proper etiquette, and NOT give people the impression that all stronger riders are assholes.


I agree its weird to just hang out back there without even saying "hello." But, people are weird, shy, don't know better, or maybe also an asshole. You don't know if you don't talk. Its just as weird to know they are back there, and also no say something...especially if its annoying someone.

Hopefully a few years from now the story will be “dragged Bos up the hill”

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Which is what? I posted this to find out if there is an etiquette, and per responses so far sounds like not really. To me, it seems proper to ask someone if it's ok for me to sit on their wheel before latching on. To a lot of other people, it's not necessary, apparently.

I'm riding along, a stranger joins in without saying anything, and is making me uncomfortable. I think discomfort is due to being in my space maybe, not sure why. If they ask, I never have and never see a reason to say no. But if they don't, they're annoying me. I don't care to initiate conversation with someone who doesn't think making me their domestique without my consent is ok.

Maybe another analogy is someone taking a seat at your table right next to you while there are tons of empty seats and not saying a word.

I thought it was pretty clear, above. The proper etiquette is generally to pull along side and ask, "mind if I sit-in?" and Maybe exchange a pleasantry or two...or explain why you are looking for a free ride today..."Long one today...kinda beat, just trying to get home."

Then before you peal off, a "thanks for the lift! Catch-ya later." Maybe offer to do the pulling the next time (if that's not obviously silly).

You know...its just basic common courtesy. If you want help, and would like to invade another person's space...just ask, don't assume.


In all my years of riding, I've never had someone jump on my wheel when they KNEW it wasn't really cool. As noted above, the people who do that are typically newer, weaker riders. They've usually got a friend who they've ridden with and know the benefits of the draft. Once I notice they are there, I say something like, "oh Hi! Didn't notice you back there." then sit up and make a little small talk.

Assuming they really are new, a gentle suggestion like, "just so you know...not everyone is cool with being drafted without being asked. You're welcome to sit-in, just leave me a couple feet of space. When you come up on someone else, its best to say hello and ask first before sitting-in."


Yep, same deal. Again, I'm apt to at least say hello, and ask "where you from?" or something stupid like that. Every rarely so often, they will mumble something and quietly move to another table. I'm not really a social person, either...but, I try and make the effort.

But, I really can't understand just being an asshole out of the gate.

OTOH, if someone declined to get off my wheel when asked...okay then...game on. Of course, I'm 50 now...so my game isn't what it used to be (or what I think it was).

As a woman I don't like it when some random dude starts sucking my wheel without saying hi or asking if it's OK. Usually it's an older guy on a road bike when I'm doing intervals or some designated training ride on my TT bike. It usually happens after I pass the guy with plenty of room and space. I usually give a quick "hi" if I'm not too winded to be polite. If it's just me riding w/o my husband, then I truly want to be alone and have my own personal space. I live in a rural area with plenty of road space for everyone. Secondly I find it nerve-wracking since I'm not familiar with the guy's bike handling skills. And thirdly I sometimes shut it right down after a hard interval for some recovery. Again it's the safety aspect. I don't need someone running into my wheel and taking us both down because I just finished a hard interval.

If someone is polite and asks to ride my wheel and I'm not doing intervals then it's fine. I'm a friendly athlete :-)

Common sense and courtesy goes a long ways.

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

I see, so what you're saying is that when someone is being that guy, I should slow down, initiate conversation and explain to them that what they are doing is annoying and they should ask my permission first and thank me afterwards? Got it. Don't see myself doing that, but good to know. And no, this wasn't clear at all.

IMO, in life - on the bike or whatever - one should be able to do whatever they want, so long as they don't cause discomfort to others. What causes discomfort to others is subjective. I'm not about to lecture a stranger on how to act based on my beliefs just because they've made a mistake (per my belief) of latching on to me announced. My way of dealing with it is to think they're inconsiderate and mind my own business. Maybe when I age up/have kids, I will feel differently about this.

Going back to etiquette, I was wondering if there's an actual sequence of steps one is expected to follow in this case. Like Velominati rules or something people unanimously do that I'm not aware of as I don't ride with groups very often.

May be...dunno. Maybe being a 50 year old father of 3 (now) adults with more grandkids, nieces and nephews that I can name or count makes me more that way.

People are remarkably oblivious to what does/does not bother other people. How would a new rider know that sucking someone's wheel without permission isn't cool? Not everyone attends local group rides, or seminars at the bike shop, or whatever where they might get taught.

I wasn't really suggesting a "lecture", more of a friendly conversation, AFTER some bit of rapport has been established. I wouldn't ever START the conversation with THAT.

if it turns out they really are a rude jerk, you can always still just ride away.

Yeah. I don't want to do that even if I'm just out for fun.

I'll cut some slack to a very young person. But anyone else? No. I'm not about about have a conversation. Not my job. I'll ignore them, or stop pedaling, or tell them to stop drafting me (not a conversation - a one-way communication).

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http://www.jt10000.com/

If someone wants to sit on my wheels then unless they introduce themselves or at least say hi and seem friendly, expect me to not give you any consideration. If my avoiding potholes(terrible roads in the UK) causes you to crash through them then tough luck as I wont be pointing them out. If you say hi though i'll adopt the usual group riding etiquette and I will point out things to avoid but I expect you to take a turn and do the same.

May I point out what seems to me a certain logical irregularity in what you're saying?

In paragraph 2 you say you don't want to make others uncomfortable, however, you accept that what will make others uncomfortable is subjective.
In paragraph 1 you say people shouldn't tell others if what they're doing is likely to make others uncomfortable.
In paragraph 2 you say you just want to resent them privately.
In paragraph 3 you ask how you should act.

So you don't want to bother others; you know that what bothers people is not universal, and yet instead of being willing to converse with those involved to get the answer you need you're asking an online population who may not be the least bit representative of those you're encountering. Are you especially shy?

Surely, it's either acceptable to interact or it's not?
Someone hopping on your wheel is interacting with you, whether they speak to you or not. Once they do that, communication is justified, indeed necessary for safety. They are not entitled to their privacy having initiated contact. However, in my experience it's extremely rare for someone to hop onto my wheel without a word and attempt to stay there for any extended period. So this is a mostly hypothetical discussion!

Probably the only benefit of all the potholes we have, to deter unwanted wheel-suckers!

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29 years and counting

That's what I'd do too. Really quickly they'd be like "holy shit, never coming near that guy again". People skillz.

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https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

Sept 11. We all left early that day. I went for a ride on the lakefront path in Chicago. I was doing short intervals. I just passed the drake hotel towards the pier and some idiot was on my side on a bike, with a shopping basket. I called out and move to go round as the opposite lane was clear and just heard an enormous crash.

It turned out some bloke on a kestrel had been on my wheel. He is on the floor, his bike snapped in two on top tube and down tube. The guy who was in my lane is on the floor out cold and siezing

They were lucky it was where medics from northwestern had cigarette breaks. As they were there in seconds and the FD paramedics within minutes.

I never knew he was behind me. He was too close to see anything. I moved and it was too late for him to go anywhere.

Just idiotic

I don't like it especially when the person doesn't let you know that they are there. I've had that happen a few times where I'll happen to take a quick look over my left shoulder to check traffic before turning or to avoid an pothole/road hazard etc., only to see someone either half-wheeling me or tight behind my back wheel. Another time I had no idea someone was there or for how long until I heard "Thanks for the pull" as they turned right onto a side street.

Even when you know someone is there, it's annoying when they hang for as long as possible without reciprocating unless you say something. I had this during B2VT last month early on where I did a pull for about 5 miles with a paceline of about 15 bikes behind me and finally waved them through where no one stepped up on their own. A few said "Nice pull" as they went by but I was irked and didn't respond.

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

Hypothetical to some and not others. I do a long ride outside at least once every 2 weeks, and I usually end up towing at least one person each time. The last couple of rides I went to Strava FlyBys and confirmed these guys were on cycling teams doing multiple races within the last few months, so they know what they're doing when they hop on, they know I'm a triathlete (my gear is obvious), and they must have some reason not to talk to me before latching on. That is why I asked, thought there's an unwritten rule I'm not aware of.

Re: irregularities, not following, sorry.

I try to be nice. As long as I don't get the sense they are putting me in danger.

I will NOT wait up if there is a hill though. I'm decently skinny. I race bikes. So likelyhood is, they get a minute or two put on them up a 3min hill and never see them again.

That wouldn't be the CIS group would it?

A comment about social aptitude on this thread?!! Seriously, I don't get this thread. I prefer people not to be on my wheel when I'm riding, but if they choose to sit there, who cares, it's not doing me any harm - look after your front wheel and you'll be fine. Seriously, people are concerned because when they finish an interval they stop sharply and the wheel sucker might slam into the back of you? What do you do, hit the brakes hard at the end of an interval or just sit up? Sit up - you'll be fine. If someone is there, speak with them, ride harder, I don't know, show some social aptitude! I don't get it. This thread is a prime example of why unfortunately a number of people I speak with find triathletes to be arrogant a holes. Tom Hampton (I think) summed it all up a few posts back. Talk to people, be friendly, or just get on with your training and don't worry about them. The one exception I concede is if they start trying to do pulls with you - that can be frustrating, but usually when that happens I adapt the session slightly - sweet, 15 mins of FTP efforts on this ride won't hurt. On one occasion I did say "I don't mean to be a jerk, but I'm trying to do a steady effort - are you okay to sit behind me or ride off and leave me" and the guy apologised and sat behind me.

Relatable, good thoughts.

I just say "good morning" when we stop at the next traffic light and the wheel sucker is behind me. Always a friendly exchange, never a problem in years. If someone wants to try and hang on, I have no problem with that, point out things when I know they're there, and otherwise just keep doing what I'm doing and enjoy the ride.

I do the same when passing people on the road, wish them good morning. I'd say half are surprised that another cyclist is being friendly to a stranger, odd, and not a good realization. Cyclists on the road have bad reputations, because many are unfriendly, aloof, arrogant, sometime over-competitive, egotistical, some dangerous and feeling entitled as well. I try to counter that by being friendly, just like off the bike. It's easy and fun. Life's too short to be serious. I'm grateful to be riding. Racing is another story, but that's a tiny percentage of cycling time.

Also judgmental.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

rmt wrote:

A comment about social aptitude on this thread?!! Seriously, I don't get this thread. I prefer people not to be on my wheel when I'm riding, but if they choose to sit there, who cares, it's not doing me any harm - look after your front wheel and you'll be fine. Seriously, people are concerned because when they finish an interval they stop sharply and the wheel sucker might slam into the back of you? What do you do, hit the brakes hard at the end of an interval or just sit up? Sit up - you'll be fine. If someone is there, speak with them, ride harder, I don't know, show some social aptitude! I don't get it.

"Social aptitude"?

It is beyond bizarre for you to lecture about "social aptitude" while defending someone literally following a stranger around without asking. In what universe is that acceptable behavior? Only in the bizarro world of some cyclists/triathletes.

It's clueless at best and dickish at worst.

A friend of mine got hit from behind by a cyclist drating unwanted. My friend stopped for a light. The guy behind didn't. My friend's collarbone was broken.

And yes, when out riding by ourselves, it's fine to slam on the brakes due to seeing unexpected things happening, like seeing a kid running to the road, etc. I behave differently if riding alone than if riding with other people.


Why TF should it be my responsibility to take positive action to deal with this, when some dude doesn't even ask if he can follow?

If I'm out riding alone, leave me alone or ask if you can accompany me. This is basic. That is "social aptitude." But don't just take my solitude because you want to without even addressing me.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

There is nothing wrong with not wanting an unannounced stranger riding your wheel, whatever the reason is, just don't be a dick and do something like snot rockets or spitting. Having someone on your wheel means you need to take some responsibility to point out potholes, signaling turns and stops/significant slowing. Sometimes people just want to ride and not worry so much about the person behind them.

I aim for the potholes, flick around them at the last second.

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Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com

Having someone on your wheel means you need to take some responsibility to point out potholes, signaling turns and stops/significant slowing.

Agree - if I know that someone is behind me then I'll gladly do this. My point from earlier was not liking it when I don't know that they are there, which can be dangerous for both of us if I have to make a sudden move to avoid something or slow down/stop.

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

replying t the op on the general subject but not really to the question asked.....

for me there is a bit of context to the extent of my tollerance of those jumping on my wheel. if i've spent several miles getting gradually closer to someone riding about the same speed then i see it as sort of ok. unless they deliberately go slower then they are going to be close.

the thing i struggle to understand - other than it just being an ego thing - is when i pass a small group, happily out enjoying their ride and doing whatever they were wanting to do, only to find some or all of them latching on to my back wheel. No one was stopping them riding harder before i came along so why the change of plan.


my only reason for not liking it, especially when riding hard, is safety. i more or less assume someone is going to try and draft, but there are a few times when i have been riding "on my own" not known that someone was on my wheel and had a bit of a surprise when i signal to make a turn

I agree.

As a runner initially, the idea of this is still strange to me. I can't fathom doing a run and having another person decide to keep pace with me. But I've accepted that it happens, and like most I'm okay with it IF the person says hi or initiates any conversation.

However, once I was riding easy-ish with a friend, having a very personal conversation, and someone decided to draft. If you see two people chatting away, just pass or stay back. (In this case my friend and I stopped all peddling until the person finally went around.)

I had another time I was doing an interval, head down like an idiot, and I crashed into someone else. 100% my fault even though they were just standing in the road- I should've seen them. I didn't realize that someone else was drafting off me, so all 3 of us went down. The person behind me started screaming at the first person they shouldn't have been in the road. No dude, my fault and your fault for sucking a stranger's wheel.

did you try flicking your elbow?

There was a guy last year who I passed and then he sprinted back up to me. Mind you we were in the middle of nowhere countryside so no need to hang on me. He didn't say anything and just sat in. I looked back a few times trying to figure out what was going on and he just sat there. If I accelerated he would get out of the saddle and just sit in a few feet away. A booger blast from me elicited a "what the fuck" and he backed off.

based on the posts, most here are so much faster than the wheel suckers that they can just ride them off the wheel at will, so why don't you?

My 400 watt ftp failed to engage that day. Obviously.

The point is why should you even have to?

I really don't care... it's happened to me once as I live in a rural area. Local pro rode up on me (we'd never met) and was sitting there for a few miles apparently.. had no idea until he rode up beside me, we spoke briefly, then he turned left off the road we were on. It spooked me a little... I'm just hammering along and someone shows up on my left. Otherwise no big deal, doesn't affect me or what I'm doing. I wished I had people to ride with sometimes... even if they're just sucking wheel.

I ride alone a LOT since I work from home and often head out for lunch rides. I don't like it when random people look to suck on my wheel unless they acknowledge they are there (then I really don't mind). Sneak up and I'll make them hurt for it. In reverse I'll never suck on wheels of say one to two rider.....I'll either pass or hang back 20 yards to give them some space until we split off inevitably. Larger groups I might ask to ride with for a period, but not often. I always get the impression that most people don't want some strangers tagging along in their group or solo ride so I fully look to respect that.

TBH, I have no problem if someone sucks my wheel if I am just riding around or commuting as long as they make their presence known so it doesn't become a safety issue. I do that myself sometimes, and I always ask permission to see if it's ok. I will never do that to someone who looks like is in serious training mode though.

Sitting here at the desk in my office I have no problem with someone jumping on my wheel. Who cares about the riding habits of a stranger that I'll never see again ? But each time it has actually happened when I'm on the bike, I get annoyed, do my best to drop them, and then thump my chest when I get home. I realize it is inane, but it's my reality.

Agree 100% there is an etiquette to sucking wheels. If someone at least acknowledges me, says hi and doesn't half wheel me I will point pot holes and move across before blowing a snot rocket. You jump on unannounced, not say hi at the next set of lights or opportune time then I pretend I don't know you are there. There are times I am serious training and times I just want to be in my own world and don't want someone inches from my back wheel.

Whoa that generated way more responses than I thought it would!

After reading most of the discussion above, I guess there won't really be a change for me then: if a random sits behind and doesn't acknowledge me in some way before/during/after, I will try to get on with my ride as much as possible and think of it as if they were a poor lil butters,




bless their soul. Ride safely!

I'll usually ask if I'm going to hop on. If they don't talk or ignore me or don't answer, I hop on if they are going "just that speed that is right" for you at that point. If they say no, I'll floor it and go bye bye (usually). Once in a while, I'll have a pro fly by & it's not even enough time to say HI, then they're up the road--often with a moto in front of them or another pro. Obviously, if they are going too slow I won't bother.

If someone hops on without asking, I try to fit in some conversation briefly & introduce myself. Networking on the bike can be a good thing! Be friendly, and I never turn someone down if they ask and hop on. If they don't ask, I'll either slow down to get them up front for a bit, or just drop the hammer & see if they like a 165+ bpm effort. Then slow waaaay down again. I've had some at time who don't talk after they hop on & try to almost act like they're trying to race me by surging past me, but so be it, that can be fun. Sometimes you need a little speed work when you're not mentally ready for it (besides, I really need to get faster on the bike & don't do enough speedwork). It's all good.

If they are safe great. If not a friendly chat. Otherwise just ride.

Why get worked up about it, either ride them off your wheel and slow and let them past.

Fwiw, it’s awkward catching a paceline while riding solo.

Basically a group that can paceline the flats around 20ish but can’t get over hills. Basically burn a match and ramp it to pursuit power and speed for 2 min then backing off.

In terms of wheelsuckers, I’m torn on folks on tri bars in the A+ ride. If you need them to hang, and you’re skipping most turns, just drift back to the other group. You’re not ready. But, they’re nice folks and they do try hard. I’d never say something. Just not fair folks getting a free ride (relatively) at 22ish up a roller they’d never make otherwise then tapping their ass after 20 seconds up front. I just pulled for 5 minutes, c’mon.

I think today really illustrated for me the subtle differences attitude can make.

Before today, I've been slightly more in camp "I don't care if strangers hook on as long as they're safe. It's not any harder for me to have them there."

Well today, tail end of a 55mi on my road bike, decide to take two laps on a very popular 3mi loop. Guy hopped on right at the base of the first climb. I made smalltalk, "Hey man, you caught me on the end, I'm only doing two loops, fyi!" No reply. I continue at my pace, he's right there. I make a few calls on cars, no reply. I pull hard, he's right there, freewheeling away pretty damn close. After a turn, I sit up (no handed, fully up) to grab a drink, see what he does. Sits in behind me. I go on at my own pace, slightly slower, he's just chilling there. Anyway, did my two laps, peeled left, let him go around on the inside, no a word. Cool man, hope you enjoyed the tow or whatever that was about.

Basically, just a hello and DBAA is all I need to be completely content for you to sit on all day. Don't expect me to do anything other than what my plan is, but if you're content at my Z3/Z4 pace and want to be there, doesn't bother me. Act like you're entitled to just sit there and be lazy? Annoying. If I'd have been riding further, I definitely would have made him take a pull or just let him get ahead of me and then do my own thing.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

 I’d never say something. Just not fair folks getting a free ride//

Ha!! Thats a good one. When did training rides have to be fair?? I thought that they were for each person to get out of it what they needed, or wanted. I guess it was not fair that I dropped all those guys back in the day, what an asshole I was! And sucking wheel right up until the sprints at the city limit sighs, man I was about as unfair as you get... (-;

Yep the they are the ones that weird me out. I too have played the erratic speed up, slow down game and am amazed how long before someone will stop following you. I had a guy overlapping wheels and when I told him to either stop overlapping or piss off he abused me and said he had been riding since I was in nappies and continued to overlap wheels. At that point I told him to f@#k off. All I want is an acknowledgement with a simple hello and ride in a safe manner.

I never had this problem in Austin but then again, I was much slower in those days.

I became a triathlete many years after becoming a cyclist, and a few years after beginning group riding. E.g., I had no idea folks would find hopping on rude. I saw how the pacelines worked and was happy to take a turn at the front but learned what a mess that turns into w/o a bike computer. (Again, back in the day of pre-tri and having gizmo's galore.)

Question for you and the group at large: How would you feel about a roller blader drafting you? I was passed by a guy pulling his dog in one of those child trailers, so I got low, increased my pace and viola. But I would have had to scream for him to hear me ask permission. FYI I can skate 17 mph when I lean on it, and yes, I'd eat shit if I had to stop abruptly.

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

I used to be cool with people sucking wheel until very recently. Then, one day, a guy sucked my wheel for 2km and, after a hairpin, he passed me, I sat on his wheel for a while and was gifted with a snot rocket. That was the last straw.

Now, whenever someone sits on my wheel, the watersports begin. I spit, throw snots, take giant sips from my bottle, swish it and spit it up, rip humongous farts and I've even peed at one occasion in order to get rid of these ungrateful bloodsuckers. Lately, I have preferred riding on the rollers to avoid these kind of encounters. Which, in turn, have more and more been turning me away from triathlon and more towards OWS and running.

I don't get why people are worked up over this.
I've initiated letting people suck wheel when I pass them in a strong headwind.

But then I started road riding/racing 15 years before I ever did a trip and seeing other cyclists on the road was a rarity.

Apples and oranges

Passing someone and imitate them to suck your wheel

Compared to riding, then you sit up and put on your breaks and then find out someone has been wheel sucking

as mentioned numerous posts upthread, safety

having one drafting you has a non-zero risk of bad things happening. while the one behind is the most likely to suffer during a crash, the person in front could also go down if the impact is just right, not to mention damages to the bike upon impact. why risk it

and given that this is the U.S., also a non-zero risk that the person who falls might hire someone to sue you

I had it happen again earlier this morning, although with a different outcome. Passed a guy and said good morning and then he instantly latched on to my wheel, half-mooning and riding right off my left shoulder. Did this for a good two miles and twice I'd sit up to slow a bit thinking he'd pull ahead, but he would do the same. Came to an intersection where we had to stop and I was just about to tell him go ahead, and he asks where I was riding to. I had about another two miles to go to where I was going to turn to loop back home and he says "OK, I'll get you there" and then takes the pull. I stayed about two bike lengths back so that I wasn't too close, got to where I was turning off and he said "enjoy the rest of your day". Surprisingly nice turn of events where usually guys will say "thanks for the lift" if they say anything at all and never reciprocate by taking a pull.

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

Meh. I'd take a random drafter any day on my ride as compared to the countless cars that blow by while texting or passing too close.

Even after all these threadposts, I will still be the outlier than more than welcomes any drafters, and the more the merrier! Even if I'm not on a hammerfest ride, I like the company, and I there are enough cyclists around here in Norcal that on weekends, there is a good probability that you get enough random drafters to get a good impromptu paceline going which is a ton of fun!

If I'm not in the mood for a drafter, I just pull right, and slow down until they pass far enough ahead that it's not an issue. Not hard, and sorry, it's not like it's going to totally mess up your planned tempo-paced ride by relaxing for 20-30seconds.

And come on guys - this is ST! If you have any doubts of the guy behind you and you don't feel like letting up, just crank up the pace to 24+mph or pump up the power to 300+w on the next small roller and see if they're still there LOL! Anyone who can maintain those efforts for more than a measly minute is almost certainly more than capable of riding well enough to be less of a threat than the cars. I've been on enough bikeclub rides with a fair amount of slower (as well as faster) riders including noobs to see this is def the case.

To be honest if somebody wants to suck my wheel then I really don't have an issue with that but don't expect me to hand out warnings about potholes, obstacles etc
If you sit behind me for 10 mins and then sprint past me up a climb or away from some lights, I think its a bit pathetic but again not really that bothered I'm just enjoying my ride
If somebody goes past me (whether they have been sat on my wheel or not) and then go about the same speed I'm going I will just drop back a few metres as I don't really want to ride on anybody else's back wheel.
Bottom line though I'd say is chill out and enjoy your ride!

That's the worst. We call them Cling-ons. You should always ask to join a paceline...

I'd say that I would probably fit in well with you based on your entire post. I have about the same view or opinion.

I've had plenty of people sit on my wheel.
Situational awareness. So many people out riding nowadays ride with blinders.
If I pass someone, I can usually tell if they hopped on my wheel.
Never considered it a big deal.
And as soon as I realize someone is on my wheel, I point out obstacles. No bfd

I'm the opposite of you - I freaking LOVE when I get randos fall in right behind me and then try to breakaway from me when they get the chance. That's the BEST when you're interested in some competition! After all, odds are more than likely that I'm not redlining to drop them when they're grabbing my wheel, so when they takeoff ahead, it's cool to see if they can keep the wattage up and stay away. In the times that they can't get away, I've had a few really fun 2-man pacelines that self-forms, and then we high five each other or say 'great pull!" right before we have to turn off to go home.

I have NEVER had a bad experience with these impromptu 2-man sessions, whether I'm the one doing the dropping, or being dropped. It's honestly one of the joys of riding outdoors to me. Sure, there's a risk of a crash when the guy's behind, but I'll say that risk is a lot lower than me getting hit by a car texting.

I will add that even if someone can suck my wheel for 10 mins, but then drop me cold and stay away on the next roller/climb, he gets a big thumbs-up from me - good rider! (I'm not some bike stud - it's just he beat me fair and square in my book if he can stay away!)

I'm as a competitive as the rest of you guys, but really, you guys get all worked up on a training ride when someone grabs your wheel for a bunch, and then makes a break for it when they get the chance? That's your chance to get some great intervals!

Sorry for quasi-bumping this thread and for having started another - I just didn't see this one. As this one is more complete I'll add my perspective (someone who has drafted recently (not commuting))...

I used to bike decades ago, picked it up again 'sort of', did a tri, and only this year I've spent more time riding. I have a 'hybrid' that I used in a tri setup and is now a roadie, so no problem with being on the aero bars not being able to break. I've always been more of a long distance person and never had much power in my legs or anywhere else which is why I gave up biking when I was young.

Now, I've ridden in one of the parks in NY where there are a fair amount of road bikers of different ages and skill levels and fitness. It takes me about an hour to get there from where I live, so I have about 4-6 laps in me before I have to head on home. Because I'm still trying to just get more miles in me also trying to increase speed and power is a bit difficult as far as motivation goes. When running it's no problem for me to motivate myself, but going uphill against the wind on a bike is brutal.

So, when I see riders on this loop where they are clearly out exercising and going relatively fast, certainly faster than me, I sometimes get on their wheel and try to hang on. To me this is all just about motivation to spend a bit more energy and use more power over what I know will be a shorter distance, because I will get dropped.

It's not about ego,
it's not about racing,
it's not about being the fastest,
it's not about winning.

I stay anywhere from say a foot or two behind at the closest, but most of the time further behind especially as speed increases. If someone magically runs out of gas I'll continue past them at whatever pace I can manage. I don't slow down in order to draft, which would be daft.

If someone is behind me drafting I don't say anything, and I don't mind at all. I probably won't point out pot holes etc because my mind will be elsewhere, but as other people pointed out; I really don't think that's my responsibility unless we agree to take turns pulling. But the point is that I have no problem with someone 'sucking wheel' when I'm out training and that I always try to predict the road ahead of anyone I'm behind to avoid surprises.

------

Now, I read a few comments about when someone is on your rear wheel and isn't pulling and alternating with you you're doing all the work, and you don't want that. Ok, so one alternative is that they don't ride with you at all in which case you're still taking all the air. So as far as that goes there's zero difference and it really doesn't make sense (to me) as an argument.

I had someone drop me on the route recently, and then a bit later I caught up and passed him, and then again he caught up to me during an uphill section and I moved in behind. He immediately slowed down, moved to the side and said he didn't want me on his wheel. So I said 'ok', and went on my way. That simple.

And lastly, If you're going to toss bodily fluids in my direction knowing that I'm there I would hope you have 'plausible deniability', because you always have the option of talking to someone instead of doing that. And if I think you know I'm behind you and you choose to spit on me I won't just sit there quietly, because on the list of 'obnoxious behavior' to me at least spitting (or urinating!) on someone on purpose ranks far higher than 'sucking wheel', especially when there are other options such as just talking to someone.

Sorry if that was long - and I don't expect anyone to care about me or my opinions per se, but perhaps it's somewhat of a different perspective... perhaps not...

If I’m out riding solo, I’d never hop on someone else’s wheel, but I don’t mind someone hopping on mine as long as I know they’re there. Like you, I actually enjoy bumping up the wattage to see if they can stay on it, and I don’t even care if they attack 10 minutes later. Then I practice my tri legal pacing, staying back 10m and seeing whether they can hold it. If not, I practice the pass and go to the front again. It’s fun and a great workout.

The only bad experience I had was when I was out with a training partner and we were taking turns pulling. Unbeknownst to us, another dude got on the back and was just sitting there, which I found out when I blew a snot rocket. He wasn’t too happy about that, but I told him it wasn’t deliberate - I just had no idea he was there. So now I always give a look back before I launch one, even on solo rides. :-)

Ian

I can't afford a coach. I don't own a car or a house or anything really. I have my bike. I appreciate your genuine suggestion though...




I'll do what you just did above. Look:




Or maybe road cycling isn't for you, and you should look for more of a safe space, such private library?


See how that works? Snark is super easy. Anyone can do it.

So you win then. Congrats.

I was referring to your demeanor in this thread the way I perceived it, and it was (I guess not) obviously (ironic) sarcasm.

In contrast the point I made initially regarding training was exactly the opposite of "winning". Getting motivation to get more out of the workout isn't about "winning", it's about getting motivation to get more out of the workout. Nothing else. If I end up behind someone then it's a fair chance they'll pull away pretty quickly because I can't keep up. That doesn't deflate my ego, and my 'job' or 'goal' isn't achieved by me going faster than them.

So, no, winning is exactly NOT my issue.

If you have any doubts of the guy behind you and you don't feel like letting up, just crank up the pace to 24+mph or pump up the power to 300+w on the next small roller and see if they're still there LOL! Anyone who can maintain those efforts for more than a measly minute is almost certainly more than capable of riding well enough to be less of a threat than the cars

^^This.

I'm quite jealous of the places you all must live where cyclists are so thick on the ground that you always have others to ride with. I'll do a 30 mile ride and pass 2 others, with maybe 5 come the other way. I'd like to have someone to exchange pulls with at a decent speed or just someone to sit on my wheel to have some fun with by seeing how long I can hold the hammer down to make them blow up, or myself.

I don't care much, but I don't signal hazards or do anything to assist the rider behind. I ride like I'm not riding in a group which is exactly what I'm doing before they got there.

Seems weird in the sense that if they caught up to you, they are obviously faster, why would they want to sit on your wheel?
I overtake people all the time and I feel bad that I usually end up going by them really fast, so no one that I catch (because obviously I am not catching up to people that are stronger than me) really has a chance to grab my wheel. I feel like it would be more polite to slow up a little more and chat so they can catch a draft but when I'm out for a ride it's not social it's training and I'm not doing a jaw workout.

I honestly couldn't care less if someone wants to draft, even uninvited. If anything, a little fun if you want to turn the screws on them, suffer you little piggies.

Seriously, I rode 50miles last weekend and saw two (2) other riders going the other way, one was on a cruiser just out for a ride. Would be great to have others to ride with

I do the same thing even if i'm in my car and other cars ride behind me on the roads. There is no doubt I'm entitled to the entire road and no one should be anywhere near me.

Well, it may be a bit different though. It could be that someone (like me) is trying to keep the pace up, I see you go by, I put in a bit extra effort to catch up with you, and then try to hold on for a short while. You're still a faster biker than I am, I just burned a bit more energy getting close to you and then trying to hold on for a bit. All just motivation, not drafting to save energy or competing.



I assume that if you're out training, and look like you're training, then you won't give me any such consideration. I would expect you to do your thing, and if we happen to 'coincide' for like 5 minutes then that's that. After that, maybe I'm out of steam, or maybe you're done with your repeat doing intervals and you slow down, or whatever. I would never expect anyone else to do me a favor, consciously, out of politeness, when training.

If you make me suffer then to me that's just more motivation to become a stronger biker. Plus, I think it's funny.

Yeah, it's all the same thing.

[/sarcasm]

You've just been officially judged by besserwisser. Or is it schadenfreude? No, it's a guy who hides behind a German moniker that essentially means "drafting". Woe unto you.

Ian

I give them a couple of chances to pull up next to me a have a conversation, then the sprint drills start.

If they still insist on sitting on my wheel, they get a taste of their own. I put on one last sprint, swing to the very edge of the road, hard, and slam on the brakes. Then I jump on their wheel and sit on until they get pissed off.

Works every time.

I think this thread says a lot about the mindset here.

So, for the very first time ever, this happened to me this past weekend.

I was surprised, but more surprised that it bothered me as much as it did. Exchange was probably no more than a 10sec conversation ("Hey, I don't want you on my wheel..."; "Ok, sorry, assumed it wasn't a problem....." Then I dropped back... but thought, WTF!). And it actually bothered me for the next 40mins of the ride, including changing my route to not cross paths again. Things that came to mind ...

1. Never happened to me in 20+ years of road cycling - training, racing, team rides, group rides, solo rides, casual rides, centuries, fondos, e'tapes, etc. Always been able to take a wheel and share/trade draft duties. So much so that I see it as part of the culture of cycling, certainly road riding.

2. Maybe women are bothered having someone close behind them? Certainly reasonable in any other context.

3. Newbies are bothered more, b/c not really comfortable on the bike or riding close to someone else? Although based on her kit/logo, riding style, she did not strike me as a newbie.

4. Triathletes seem to have more of a problem w/this than roadies. (evidenced by threads on this site). We were on road bikes, but maybe she was a triathlete riding her road-bike?

5. Person that's in the draft really bears more of the risk/danger in a crash, so she shouldn't really have been concerned about this. But maybe she didn't realize this?

6. Person behind really doesn't affect how hard/easy person in front wants to ride. Surge or ease up if you want to. I'll either try to hang, drop off, or go around. Either way, your ride plan can stay unaffected.

7. She made some judgments about me and deemed me "not worthy"? I ride a Cervelo-R3,, (so couldn't have been due to the bike), sporting black/white, but non-logo kit. Maybe I look out-of-shape?

8. Some folks just aren't nice.

9. Some folks get bothered by truly minor crap. And this applies to both of us.

Someone brought up a good point earlier that I think sums up this topic- in what universe is following someone around without their permission acceptable behavior?

Well, yet again: "following someone around" includes any and all situations.

Do you think it's ok for a security guard to follow a customer around in a store when the customer is suspected of shoplifting if the customer hasn't given their permission? I'm betting a lot of people think it's fine. Or how about police doing it when they suspect something?

Ok, so we know now that it isn't just in any and all situations, so the "good point" is just making a bunch of assumptions. It's as if you're getting out of your house/apartment in a smaller town, and there on the sidewalk someone is waiting for you and then begins to follow you around. Is it legal? Probably. Is it "acceptable"? To many probably not. IS IT THE SAME AS DRAFTING WHEN TRAINING? Probably not.

As I pointed out earlier, my situation was that I was riding a well known loop in a park in NY and ended up behind someone who was clearly out to train. It wasn't someone just walking on the street. It wasn't someone just shopping. It was someone on an expensive road bike with dedicated clothes all set up to train 'clearly' for a purpose. It is NOT the same as just following someone in any situation.

Consider this: What could that person or anyone else expect once they stop training, stop their bike or leave the route (park)? They can quite reasonably expect that the person drafting will stop drafting. Why? Because the purpose is clear. When someone is following you on the sidewalk the purpose of that is NOT clear.

The point that you reiterate is far from "good" in my opinion. Superficially appealing? Yes. Actually well thought-out and "good"? Not in my opinion.

It's acceptable in cycling ... And when someone objects, it's jarring, because it feels so counter to the sport. That's my experience

For triathletes, maybe the objection is related to an anti-drafting sentiment. Which is a good thing. But counter to road(ie) cycling.

In most other contexts, certainly outside of sports, yes, very weird to shadow/follow someone around.

Following someone closely is acceptable in swimming. If you're bothered by someone on your wheel, are you also bothered by someone drafting you in the pool?

Furthermore, there's lots of situations in sports that are acceptable as long as it happens within the sport, but not elsewhere. Perfectly ok to check someone in ice hockey. Definitely don't want to do that on a buffet line.

Obviously I'm of the view that being on someone's wheel is acceptable part-of-the-sport behavior (cycling, not triathlons)

That is not the way I read the quote I referenced. I took it to read that in any social situation, it is inappropriate to follow someone around. I think what s/he was referring to was, for instance, someone following you around the grocery store. To your point, I am not bothered by someone drafting but I do think it is inappropriate to just jump on without saying something. In addition, I agree with you it is not appropriate to body check someone on the buffet line.

Did you catch her or did she catch you?

It doesn't happen too much to me around here, but if I'm the one to catch someone, I won't sit on their wheel. I'll go to the front, say "hi" and invite them to ride on my wheel for a bit. If they catch up with me and sit on my wheel, I'll motion them through.

Can't recall a time I've ever not known someone was on my wheel.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I don't think this is in any way the same as following someone around. You are both using the same road and you are both entitled to do so. Yeah there's no need to get right up on someone's a$$ but if anyone has a serious problem with this they should get over themselves.

I will sometimes be out riding and end up behind someone. It is totally innocent and should not really be that big a deal. This can happen for any number of reasons, like (i) they are not riding a consistent pace, (ii) your power to weight ratios are different so you gain ground on hills but go about the same speed on flats, (iii) maybe you're trying specifically to take it easy so even though you're riding just the tiniest bit faster you don't want to spike the power to go around them, or (iv) maybe there are stop lights or something like that coming up and you just make the judgment that it's not worth it right then to try to go around.

I will never follow super close if this happens, but i will sometimes be behind someone, and if they ever turned around and told me not to I would tell them to go get stuffed (but in less polite terms).

But then again, this is NYC so maybe the etiquette is different

I caught her first, and when I came up, I decided to keep going and passed by.... Said "Hi there.. passing". Noticed she didn't take my wheel, which was perfectly fine. It was about 10mins later, when she came by (no words), and I decided to close that gap to her wheel. Probably about a minute of drafting, she knew I was there, then the objection.

Also, this is on a paved trail ~45 miles each way, very popular w/cyclists and people grab and drop wheels along here all the time. So not an unusual occurrence.

The same universe where wearing a pointy hat and lycra from head to toe in public is deemed acceptable, the same universe where spending 10hours a week sat in a dark garage riding nowhere is normal, the same universe where staring at a black line for 4 hours a week is fine. Honestly, I really don't think you can apply the rules of social engagement to the rules of a sporting context! There may be valid reasons for wheel sucking not being okay, but I really don't think that 'social acceptability in the real world' is relevant!

Every explanation you managed to come up with basically amounts to "She has a problem." When you begin your argument by assuming the conclusion, you generally manage to end up there.

One person's "minor crap" is another person's major crap. I don't see a big mystery in a woman not wanting a man to follow her in any situation but regardless, there's no need to puzzle over it. Just accept that not everyone views the world as you do and move on.

Seriously, someone asks you not to draft them and YOU tell THEM to get stuffed?? Do you get really close to people when standing in line? Would you think it appropriate to tell someone off if they asked you for space?

Surprised you still have any teeth

Some women are very hinky about one on one encounters with men in any situation. I owned a business where I would do in house sales calls to sell remodeling services. Most of my customers were women and I would go out of my way to make sure they were comfortable. Still I recall one woman who would come outside in the garage to talk to me but when she went back inside the deadbolt would clunk very audibly. I thought it was weird but I wasn't offended, I just finished up my quote in the garage.

But you would think that most folks out for a ride would at least be polite to other riders in the absence of any reason to be otherwise.

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"They know f_ck-all over at Slowtwitch"
- Lionel Sanders

if i am behind anyone, i am not drafting off of them. i am waiting patiently a time where i can go around. i am minding my own business and the only reason i am even aware of them is to pay attention so as to not hit them if they slow down, turn right, etc.

so yes, if they say a single word about not wanting me to be there, they will hear about it.

Last week someone hopped on my wheel on a bike path with a decent amount of other users . Someone's dog unexpectedly jumps in my line and I almost wreck cause I can't just slam on my brakes due to the anon dbag with unknown skills unannounced on my wheel. My friend also broke his femur and clavicle being taken out by some dipshit from behind. So pardon me if I'm the asshole that politely asks you not to ride my wheel.

I have no problem having people I know on my wheel or even people I dont know but on a group ride. I probably wouldn't have a problem with a rando if they just chatted a few minutes first.

Oh I agree. I definitely would think most folks would at least be polite enough to ask a total stranger if they were OK with sitting on their wheel.

NYC aside, the proper course of action when catching someone is to ask if she/he minds if you hang on the wheel for a while. If the answer is no, then pass or drop back.

I don't think I assumed the conclusion, but I did get to that over the duration of the rest of the ride


Reasonable. I'll sometimes say to my wife, that if she's not seeing something my way, it's because she doesn't understand the situation. Ya, that usually goes over well :-)

That, my friend, is when you hop on your bicycle and ride like the wind!

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"They know f_ck-all over at Slowtwitch"
- Lionel Sanders

My point there was that when drafting, people worry about wheels touching, and going down. But if wheels touch, it's the rear rider that usually takes the brunt of it, rarely the leading rider.

Of course, a sudden wayward dog, squirrel, deer, mountain lion, pedestrian and other forms of wildlife present an emergency handling risk -- but that can happen regardless of drafting or not. And if I'm on someone's wheel, I'm still scanning ahead for potholes, intersections, and other risks myself (as should anyone in a draft). And if I'm in front, I point stuff out.

... BTW, I don't really buy into the notion that a friendly word or chat *needs* to happen to get an invitation to sit-in. Sure, it's a nice gesture, and it can announce your presence so you're not sneaking up on someone and surprising them. But it shouldn't be needed, and doesn't really work in various situations -- some recent examples that come to mind -

1. Trying for conversation from the rear can be hard to hear. Someone coming up behind me saying something to me, is way more intrusive and difficult to hold. If you're going to say something, better to pull alongside, ride side by side then have a chat. But now it's not a situation of drafting/sharing a wheel - but being social. I've found conversation has always been better *after* wheel's have been shared, not before.

2. Southbound rides on 9W back to NYC. Rolling hills aren't bad on the way out, but they always seem tougher on the way back. Shared many a wheel with stranger's without a word b/c we all knew we're suffering and just wanted to get back w/out anything needing to be said. Not having conversation also makes it easier -- if someone falls off the back there's no obligation to wait up for him/her :-)

3. Recon ride up Mt Ventoux, a few years ago.... Possible language barriers preventing conversation, but also not needed - just a tacit approval across cultures of how to get up that mountain.

4. Impromptu hard/fast pace lines - where effort is hard enough to not really have any conversation. Just an elbow flick, and a rotation through. If I flick an elbow and someone pulls through, volumes have already been said. Turns into a beautiful thing, of what were 4-5 solo riders now humming along w/out any words needed.

And my point is if I'm unwinding coming home from work i dont want to have to worry about calling out to a random dude I dont want riding with me. And sure, in ideal conditions touching wheels brings down the rear guy. Have you ever actually ridden ideal conditions while surrounded by traffic, debris, and pedestrians? My example I could've easily stopped solo but since I had some asshat on my wheel I had to do something more sketchy so he didn't crash me out. I think it is interesting how personally you are taking someone politely asking you to not follow.

I'd biked for years before becoming a triathlete who trained to numbers. The only things that would bug me about a stranger sucking wheel are:
- dude / person is creepy and giving me a hinky feeling. This could potentially be linked to location.
- person is annoying somehow: clearing their throat all the time, their bike squeeks, wants to chat and I don't, something like that.
- I'm gassy and I just don't want to fart all over them.

Sure, if you take my wheel out or cross mine without my knowing you're there, I wouldn't like that. But I'm usually riding a busy multi-use trail or an organized group ride where expectation is, other riders will be in close proximity. I guess I'm saying, my wheel is probably up for random sucking, should you find it. But just like sharing a lane at the pool, you gotta let me know you're there!

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

I haven't ski'd since high school. But, in skiing and most other sports........the person in FRONT has the right of way. The person behind is responsible for behaving safely.

Same here. If someone is polite and asks, I'll ask them who they ride with. If they don't have an answer, you're not sitting on my wheel. Go learn on the local C or B ride how to ride a line. You're not crashing with me.

If you say nothing, I'll find the first pitch I can and drop you like a rock in a lake. I'm not tiny, but skinny enough you'd need to be a Cat 3 or so to keep up over a hill.

It's only happened once long ago. I don't typically ride things local roadies enjoy. They enjoy endless country roads with just a few rollers.

I like sticking to my lumpy training routes in town. I enjoy 75ft per mile or more.

Most roadies here take a pass on stuff like that. I've never gotten someone to tag along for a ride like that. It's not conducive to group riding due to variations in weight and ability. Mostly weight.

FIFY

Plus: kudos for not getting offended by that customer. Many dudes would've taken it personally, even though it has nothing to do with them as an individual.

Regarding 40-tude and the woman who asked him not to draft: it could be because she is female, it could also be because you were in her personal space , that you were uninvited, that you were a stranger, or that she prefers to ride alone.

Regardless, if you try to force your presence on someone who doesn't want you there, for whatever reason, you shouldn't be offended if they ask you to not be there.

I'm not saying you can't share the bike path, just don't sit inches away from someone who doesn't want you there.

Strangers who jump on my wheel get politely asked to not do that as well. If I don't know you, I don't want you anywhere near enough to cause me to crash.

Nice bikes and fancy kit only means someone can afford those things, not that someone has good handling skills. People crash expensive sports cars all the time because they don't know how to drive. Nice bikes are no different.

Do you guys drive cars at all? Do you freak out if there are cars in the lanes next to you are behind you?

If you don't like that someone is behind you, pull over and stop. Just keep in mind that eventually someone else will come along. It's not like the roads are private and that we have the right to tell people not to use them when we are on them. Just more symptoms of an entitled society.

If they tailgate I object.

And that's what were talking about here - people that all of a sudden, when you do a random shoulder check, sit on your wheel. When that happens I say hi, carry on, and when they are still there 3 minutes later without offering to do a pull, I drop the hammer. If that doesn't help, I take any random turnoff. Because it's annoying, having somebody in your personal space that just stalks you.

Now, if the road is busy and there are lots of cyclists around (almost like a busy highway when you're in the car :-) it's different. But if you're basically the only two cyclists on the road it's just plain rude to sit on somebody's wheel without sharing the work.

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

This has been happening more lately.......

Wife and I are riding and I'm pulling, creepy dude(s) get on my wife's wheel. I pull over, she pulls, I get on her wheel. Dude drops off my wheel. They were just watching her ass.

I had a car/truck that just took a wee bit to long to pass me this summer. Thinking about it it occurred to me it probably took him (it was an old farmer in a beat-up pickup truck) probably a little while to realize he was looking at a guy's ass, and not a girl's.

Even if that was not what was going on, it gave me some insight in what it must be like to be ogled the whole time.

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

Um, there IS. A difference between people "driving near you" and someone driving so close (tailgaiting) that if you mash on the brakes, the literally won't even have time to lift their foot off the gas before they hit you.. reaction times and all that.

You will note I quite clearly differentiated between sharing the path and being within inches of someone when uninvited.

One is fine, the other is the action of a self important buffoon who has no comprehension of simple physics.

For you to imply that our society is "entitled" because we don't want people engaging in dangerous behaviours is just silly.

Asking someone to not engage in a dangerous behaviour is not "entitled". It's called being aware. In fact, the only person who is acting entitled is people who clearly don't care if they endanger others if it interferes with what they want.

I bet you tailgate when driving to. Just because it hasn't bit you yet doesnt mean it can't. Look up normilazation of deviance some time.

Ok, this was awesome for a laugh!!!

Oh, and how do you know he didn't know he was looking at a dudes ass? Who are we to judge?

Just take it as a compliment

I do something similar when riding with my GF.

I'm pulling, someone we pass gets on her wheel; I pull out and get behind her, back off to create a 50 meter gap then ride hard to catch back up to her and start pulling again.

"Not that there's anything wrong with that"

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

I have done this as well, but it is also annoying to have to adjust riding paces to get away from random drafters.

I think I am going to ziptie a tin can to my seatpost with a sign that says "Friends draft free, all others $1/minute." And then I can just point and say "Money in the can, please!"

Normally I ride a pace that most people won't be able to sustain so no worries for me on unknown wheel suckers... but if a person wants to, by all means my friend stuck wheel away.

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Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!

Me too, although in my case it's because they can't sustain such a slow pace.

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Nanoo Nanoo

This happened to me today and I was reminded of this thread.
I was about 4 hours into a 6 hour ride and a dude appeared behind me. After about 10 minutes I waved him through to take a pull but he didn't budge. Tried to talk to him but we had language issues. Tried to stay zen (why should I care, I'm doing my thing) but the fact that he was there made me increasingly nervous and annoyed. After about 45 minutes (!) I called him out again and he finally communicated "no training", which I think meant he was cracked. After about an hour he faded away. Never even got a thanks.

I had a young guy suck my wheel (I was in the bars! SMH...) and would not take a hint. I tried riding away but he just stayed there in the slipstream. Finally had to tell him off. He was more clueless than an asshole though.

One guy was an asshole. His bike was apparently last serviced in 1865 and squeaked like combination of tinnitus and top key on the piano REALLY LOUDLY. Was trying to enjoy my ride and there he was. I asked him about it (hint) and he just shrugged it off and said it was his rain bike. Then continued to stay back there despite being told to fricken back off. I rode away from him not because I'm good but because he sucked.