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BMC Timemachine TT Disc
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Just got an email about this

https://www.bmc-switzerland.com/us-en/timemachine-disc/


Last edited by: mike s: Jul 11, 18 5:37
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [mike s] [ In reply to ]
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Very cool! Seems like everyone is refining their rim brake versions instead of creating something crazy like Cervelo did.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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But.....would you upgrade your frame AND Wheels just to have something similar to what you have but with disc brakes..?

If we're honest, there isn't a vast difference in performance between the top tier frames, ie Trek, Scott, Cervelo, Canyon, BMC, etc.. would having disc brakes really make enough of a difference to justify replacing your nice, fast Zipps,etc as well..?

I'd only buy one if my race wheels, frame (and realistically group set) needed replacing at the same time. That won't happen for sometime, unless I have a big crash..or get a windfall of cash.

I would however, be more tempted to sell what I have and use the money I get towards something drastically different...like the Cervelo or Ceepo etc
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [UKathlete] [ In reply to ]
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If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.

Why? How much time do you really spend braking on a Tri bike? How often do you ride in the rain?

I'm not negating the advantages for commuters, CX or MTB bikes. But for the rest of us, there's not that significant of a difference, at least not enough of a difference to have to get all new wheelsets. It's just something new for the manufacturers to sell us
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
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Because the future of triathlon bikes is disc brakes, not rim brakes. I've ridden my P2 for 7 years. My next bike will be ridden 7-8 years too. 10 years from now, bikes will not be rim brakes. I'm buying something to last, not rim brakes because Slowtwitch tells me to.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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LOL, you're such a marketers dream.

"My new bike is built for the future!"

"Are you faster on it compared to your old bike?"

"Not really, but its built for the future!"
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Because the future of triathlon bikes is disc brakes, not rim brakes. I've ridden my P2 for 7 years. My next bike will be ridden 7-8 years too. 10 years from now, bikes will not be rim brakes. I'm buying something to last, not rim brakes because Slowtwitch tells me to.


So somehow rim brakes make a bike not last now?

Right....

As to what happens 10 years from now? Who knows. Caliper brakes are cheaper and work just fine for 95% of the population. I seriously doubt that every road and tri bike is going to come with disc brakes 10 years from now. Of course, that all depends if manufacturers actually settle on one standard (like through axle) or keep changing them, just like every BB standard out there these days. And if 10 years from now it is the standard.... guess what? It's going to be cheaper and you aren't going to have to spend $$$$ on a high end bike to get one as they'll be on entry-level bikes.
Last edited by: caverunner17: Jul 11, 18 8:36
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [walie] [ In reply to ]
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Not really. I’m just not blind to what’s happening in the industry.

I don’t rush out and buy things because some guy on Slowtwitch said it was faster when 99% of the people on here are not aerodynamicist or bicycle engineers.

If I was a marketers dream I would buy bikes every 2-3 years and switch aero helmets like underwear.

Wake up, rim brakes are slowly being replaced.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Not really. I’m just not blind to what’s happening in the industry.

I don’t rush out and buy things because some guy on Slowtwitch said it was faster when 99% of the people on here are not aerodynamicist or bicycle engineers.

If I was a marketers dream I would buy bikes every 2-3 years and switch aero helmets like underwear.

Wake up, rim brakes are slowly being replaced.

I see it happening too.. I dont like it 100% but when I cant get the best offering from a mfg.. well then it's about time to jump ship. For example BMC TMR01 (disc only) Venge (disc only) I see it only getting worse in the future.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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If you are using brakes in a tri or TT, then you are doing it wrong.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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90% of your time on a bike is training. How about we get back to talking about this bike instead of repeating the same anti-disc brake nonsense that’s in all the other threads?

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
90% of your time on a bike is training. How about we get back to talking about this bike instead of repeating the same anti-disc brake nonsense that’s in all the other threads?

90% of the time in training I'm on my road bike.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
BryanD wrote:
90% of your time on a bike is training. How about we get back to talking about this bike instead of repeating the same anti-disc brake nonsense that’s in all the other threads?


90% of the time in training I'm on my road bike.


You must not do long distance triathlons very quickly then.

ETA - To further take this thread out of whack - do you feel like this is the best policy? Most competitive triathletes I know do a majority of their riding on their race bike, because that is the best way to develop positional fitness required to be competitive.
Last edited by: jkhayc: Jul 11, 18 9:39
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
If you are using brakes in a tri or TT, then you are doing it wrong.

I thought everyone do 100% of their training indoors now
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
If you are using brakes in a tri or TT, then you are doing it wrong.

Not trying to be antagonistic to you in particular but I've seen this said a lot in these disc brake debates, and the authors probably have varying levels of seriousness and sarcasm but this statement is just...silly, stupid, and detrimental to the argument that disc brakes dont matter for tri or TT on the road.

For this to ring true, why don't you save the weight and aero drag and remove your front and rear calipers, cables, and brake levers and have a brake-less bike? Saves hundreds of grams of weight and a small handful of watts.
However, no one does that. Ever, regardless of UCI rules or whatever might govern this. This is an irrefutable fact. Hence the importance of braking.

Again, I understand YOU may be kidding but some people say this and are serious.

Brakes are a critical and essential part of a bicycle. Technical or hilly course? You're going to use the brakes a LOT, so you don't fall and get horribly injured, not to mention they could save your life if something suddenly gets in your way (car, animal, other riders, pothole field, list goes on). Having brakes that perform better is a benefit. Whether they're rim or discs is not my point, my point is to say that to claim braking is not important...is plain stupid.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
Having brakes that perform better is a benefit. Whether they're rim or discs is not my point, my point is to say that to claim braking is not important...is plain stupid.


Most people that say brakes don't matter in triathlon think they are faster than they really are.

I have Shimano pads on a TriRig Omega X with aluminum rims and rode in heavy rain last Thursday and I could barely stop in time for a red light.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Jul 11, 18 9:48
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
PBT_2009 wrote:
Having brakes that perform better is a benefit. Whether they're rim or discs is not my point, my point is to say that to claim braking is not important...is plain stupid.


Most people that say brakes don't matter in triathlon think they are faster than they really are.

I have Shimano pads on a TriRig Omega X with aluminum rims and rode in heavy rain last Thursday and I could barely stop in time for a red light.


You should've kept on the KoolStop Salmon pads that came with that brake...there's a reason Nick specs those pads as stock.

BTW, when was the last time you tried to make a stop like that in heavy rain on a disc-equipped bike?

Let me tell you from personal experience that there's still quite a bit of "Oh sit, these things aren't working!" time when you first apply the levers on a disc bike in heavy rain conditions...and then once they do start working, they perform basically the same as KoolStop Salmons on alu rims.

The hype about how well disc brakes work in the wet is mostly in comparison to wheels with carbon braking surfaces...which are absolutely horrid.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jul 11, 18 9:59
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
BryanD wrote:
90% of your time on a bike is training. How about we get back to talking about this bike instead of repeating the same anti-disc brake nonsense that’s in all the other threads?


90% of the time in training I'm on my road bike.


You must not do long distance triathlons very quickly then.

ETA - To further take this thread out of whack - do you feel like this is the best policy? Most competitive triathletes I know do a majority of their riding on their race bike, because that is the best way to develop positional fitness required to be competitive.

Cam Wurf just said he rides his TT bike only once per week, but when he does it's very race specific. I don't think there's a lot of science around this, but it's certainly not necessary to ride your TT bike a majority of the time.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Yea it's not a confidence inspiring sweeping generalization to say "fast triathletes ride their race bikes more than they do not" but, I still think it's the best policy for most people. Using Cam Wurf as an example of "probably not necessary to ride tri bike all the time" may also not be the best rule of thumb, ha.

Also, pros in general are tough to follow, as they are generally adapting to changes much quicker. If I ride 8hrs a week as an FOP AG triathlete and they are riding 15-20hrs a week they don't have to ride the tri bike as frequently to adapt to the position as they are riding much more than your average AG triathlete.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
If you are using brakes in a tri or TT, then you are doing it wrong.




Again, I understand YOU may be kidding but some people say this and are serious.

Just so you (and everyone) know.....I was joking. I don't use pink font.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.

I don't want to be a thorn in your side, but fyi your 2011 P2 (new gen P2, correct?) is/was a very very fast bike. When correctly and optimally set up, the n.P2 will beat many many of these new bikes coming out. Of course there are faster bikes out there, but they are or will be very very expensive compared to your very fast P2.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Old p2

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Do you mean this one?

Because I think the old P2 was discontinued before 2011 (?). Or did you get one that was slightly older stock at a shop?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, that is my frame. Mine is black/red and this frame was discontinued in January 2014 when the new P2 frame came out.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [walie] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
If you are using brakes in a tri or TT, then you are doing it wrong.


A few weeks ago I did a Triathlon that had a 500m downhill at about 12% followed immediately by a 140° right turn. I got up to 80km/h on the short downhill without hard pedalling. If it had been wet, I wouldn't have wanted to do that course.

Wider wheels are also possible with disc brakes.

It's funny, of all of the recent advances in road bikes - tubeless, 1x, electronic shifting and disc brakes, disc brakes are the only one I would want at all!
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [mike s] [ In reply to ]
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i don't need a new bike, certainly ain't in this price category, but I can appreciate that when I pay a #$#@$ pile of money, I get a bike that looks like its worth it.
these disc capiper shrouds look tech.





seeing hydro cables on cool new bikes seems low tech (FTR, I covet this bike)
$0.02

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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
BryanD wrote:
90% of your time on a bike is training. How about we get back to talking about this bike instead of repeating the same anti-disc brake nonsense that’s in all the other threads?


90% of the time in training I'm on my road bike.


You must not do long distance triathlons very quickly then.

ETA - To further take this thread out of whack - do you feel like this is the best policy? Most competitive triathletes I know do a majority of their riding on their race bike, because that is the best way to develop positional fitness required to be competitive.


Not everybody can train on their Tri bike. I live in CO. The only place near me that is pancake flat is a multi-use bike path and a ~2 mile stretch of a state park where I do workouts at. Otherwise, my "flat" rides have over 700' of elevation gain, with an average ride of 1400-1800'. Some of my longer rides have well over 3k in elevation gain.

Only 1 ride of mine per week is on my Tri bike -- my workout day where I do a number of 4-mile out and back intervals on that state park road. The rest of my rides are on my road bike. Climbing on a Tri bike sucks. Overall cycling fitness is similar between your Tri and Road bikes. Pushing 220W for 30 minutes up a mountain at 11MPH and 90RPM is going to be a similar effort to pushing 220W for 30 minutes at 90RPM on a long flat stretch of road at 23MPH.

Also, it's going to be location dependent. Back in IL, quite a few triathletes I know only had a Tri bike. Or a Tri bike and a beater road bike. So it's no wonder they're going to spend the most time training on a Tri bike, because it's their best/only bike. At the same time, I look back to some of my rides in IL and I'm only at 100-200' of elevation gain over 20-30 miles.

Of the 5 triathletes I'm personally friends with here in CO, 4 have nice road bikes in addition to their Tri bike, and one just uses their road bike with clip-ons for races.

As far as the bike in question - no doubt it's nice. But it's not necessarily worth spending the $$$$ on this just to get disc brakes.
Last edited by: caverunner17: Jul 11, 18 10:57
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.

I've got an "old P3C" from 2011.

You're right my next bike could have disc brakes when I change..........in about 10 years time or when it's proven such bikes are faster.

Happy to use my shitty old rim brakes in any TT or triathlon at the moment.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:



The hype about how well disc brakes work in the wet is mostly in comparison to wheels with carbon braking surfaces...which are absolutely horrid.


Confirmed, did an Olympic this year and it started pouring 3 miles into the bike leg. Came steaming into a somewhat unexpected 120 degree turn and had a pucker factor 1000 moment when the brakes did nothing for a solid 5 seconds- I was clipped out and ready for emergency maneuvers when the brakes finally started to work well enough to slow down. After that and another wet bike leg later in the year, I would be happy to jump to disc braking- especially if Shimano make a proper DI2 bullhorn hydro-brake/shifter. My dream would be a SpeedConcept with ISOSpeed in the rear, discs, thru-axels, and a "don't give a crap about the UCI box" version.

But I am a disc best case scenario- technical, hilly, fast courses, I use full carbon wheels, race in the wet, and go full tilt on the bike to make my placings.

Take a few of those away, and a current gen Speedconcept would be all I ever need.
Last edited by: elf6c: Jul 11, 18 11:08
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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Shimano has a Di2 hydro disc brake lever.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Shimano has a Di2 hydro disc brake lever.

Damn, you're right!

https://bike.shimano.com/...-di2/ST-R9180-R.html

This is bad for my budget.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
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caverunner17 wrote:
BryanD wrote:
Because the future of triathlon bikes is disc brakes, not rim brakes. I've ridden my P2 for 7 years. My next bike will be ridden 7-8 years too. 10 years from now, bikes will not be rim brakes. I'm buying something to last, not rim brakes because Slowtwitch tells me to.


So somehow rim brakes make a bike not last now?

Right....

As to what happens 10 years from now? Who knows. Caliper brakes are cheaper and work just fine for 95% of the population. I seriously doubt that every road and tri bike is going to come with disc brakes 10 years from now. Of course, that all depends if manufacturers actually settle on one standard (like through axle) or keep changing them, just like every BB standard out there these days. And if 10 years from now it is the standard.... guess what? It's going to be cheaper and you aren't going to have to spend $$$$ on a high end bike to get one as they'll be on entry-level bikes.

i'll tell you exactly what's going to happen.

within 10 years, basically everything will be discs and electronic shifting.

then, some bold company will release a 'climbing' version of their aero road bike for some premier pro tour rider at a hilly road race or mountain stage. it will be the same bike, but with rim brakes and mech shifting - same aerodynamics, a half-pound lighter.

then, everyone will start talking about needing a 'climbing' bike, and convincing themselves that their training and racing rides are 'pretty hilly,' and then everyone will want to get the new rim brakes and mech shifting just so that they can get neutral support, and saving weight's pretty important, and etc. except now mech and rim brakes will be more expensive that discs and electro.

and a few holdouts will come onto slowtwitch and say, "now's a great time to make a killing on second-hand rim-brake wheelsets!

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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elf6c wrote:
Tom A. wrote:



The hype about how well disc brakes work in the wet is mostly in comparison to wheels with carbon braking surfaces...which are absolutely horrid.


Confirmed, did an Olympic this year and it started pouring 3 miles into the bike leg. Came steaming into a somewhat unexpected 120 degree turn and had a pucker factor 1000 moment when the brakes did nothing for a solid 5 seconds- I was clipped out and ready for emergency maneuvers when the brakes finally started to work well enough to slow down. After that and another wet bike leg later in the year, I would be happy to jump to disc braking- especially if Shimano make a proper DI2 bullhorn hydro-brake/shifter. My dream would be a SpeedConcept with ISOSpeed in the rear, discs, thru-axels, and a "don't give a crap about the UCI box" version.

But I am a disc best case scenario- technical, hilly, fast courses, I use full carbon wheels, race in the wet, and go full tilt on the bike to make my placings.

Take a few of those away, and a current gen Speedconcept would be all I ever need.

The easiest, and most effective one of those to take away is the full carbon wheels. Pick up a set of Hed Jet Blacks to replace whatever wheels you use now, sell the old wheels to reduce the incremental cost...and never look back.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
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To contrast you, I rode 15 hours last week, with 14 of them on the tri bike. On two of the rides on the tri bike, I had pissing rain for 3 hours (was very glad to have hydraulic brakes) and each had over 6k of climbing. To say elevation limits one's riding to only a tri bike is just wrong.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Won't happen. This disc brake train is not turning around.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
BryanD wrote:
90% of your time on a bike is training. How about we get back to talking about this bike instead of repeating the same anti-disc brake nonsense that’s in all the other threads?


90% of the time in training I'm on my road bike.


You must not do long distance triathlons very quickly then.

ETA - To further take this thread out of whack - do you feel like this is the best policy? Most competitive triathletes I know do a majority of their riding on their race bike, because that is the best way to develop positional fitness required to be competitive.

Horseshit. https://rappstar.com/...es-need-a-road-bike/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [UKathlete] [ In reply to ]
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UKathlete wrote:
But.....would you upgrade your frame AND Wheels just to have something similar to what you have but with disc brakes..?

If we're honest, there isn't a vast difference in performance between the top tier frames, ie Trek, Scott, Cervelo, Canyon, BMC, etc.. would having disc brakes really make enough of a difference to justify replacing your nice, fast Zipps,etc as well..?

I'd only buy one if my race wheels, frame (and realistically group set) needed replacing at the same time. That won't happen for sometime, unless I have a big crash..or get a windfall of cash.

I would however, be more tempted to sell what I have and use the money I get towards something drastically different...like the Cervelo or Ceepo etc

Not a chance. I just upgraded my 2012 BMC TM01 this year. Put in a new cockpit, went from 10 to 11 speed, and from mechanical to electronic shifting SRAM Red. As long as I don't crack the frame, that will take that bike another 6+ years.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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CPT Chaos wrote:
To contrast you, I rode 15 hours last week, with 14 of them on the tri bike. On two of the rides on the tri bike, I had pissing rain for 3 hours (was very glad to have hydraulic brakes) and each had over 6k of climbing. To say elevation limits one's riding to only a tri bike is just wrong.

Good for you, I guess?

I'm not saying there aren't outliers or people in CO who only own a tri bike. Perhaps if you have DI2 on the brake levers things are different, but for the majority who have mechanical shifting, a Tri bike is not a great climbing bike, given the need for frequent switching of gears out of aero, and trying to climb in aero at 10-12MPH (or slower if a super steep climb) is pretty unstable and you can't pull against the aerobars nearly as well as you can on shift levers on a road bike. It's like trying to take Prius on backcountry trail roads. It might make it, but it's not the best tool for the job. Not to mention a lot of local group rides won't allow tri-bikes for safety reasons.

Again, bike fitness is transferable. As long as you're comfortable on your tri bike and have done enough practice rides, it's not as if training on your road bike is going to take away from your Tri bike fitness. Look at the UCI world championship TT. The top guys are almost always top tier Tour guys who... you guessed it, spend most of their time training on road bikes. Looking down on someone because they train a bulk of their miles on a road bike is pretty stupid in my opinion, assuming they have a well-fitting Tri bike and do ride on occasion to get a comfortable position. If it's good enough for the pros, it's good enough for the rest of the people.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
elf6c wrote:
Tom A. wrote:



The hype about how well disc brakes work in the wet is mostly in comparison to wheels with carbon braking surfaces...which are absolutely horrid.


Confirmed, did an Olympic this year and it started pouring 3 miles into the bike leg. Came steaming into a somewhat unexpected 120 degree turn and had a pucker factor 1000 moment when the brakes did nothing for a solid 5 seconds- I was clipped out and ready for emergency maneuvers when the brakes finally started to work well enough to slow down. After that and another wet bike leg later in the year, I would be happy to jump to disc braking- especially if Shimano make a proper DI2 bullhorn hydro-brake/shifter. My dream would be a SpeedConcept with ISOSpeed in the rear, discs, thru-axels, and a "don't give a crap about the UCI box" version.

But I am a disc best case scenario- technical, hilly, fast courses, I use full carbon wheels, race in the wet, and go full tilt on the bike to make my placings.

Take a few of those away, and a current gen Speedconcept would be all I ever need.


The easiest, and most effective one of those to take away is the full carbon wheels. Pick up a set of Hed Jet Blacks to replace whatever wheels you use now, sell the old wheels to reduce the incremental cost...and never look back.

The braking is a little better on these hybrid wheels but not enough to drop another $1.5-2k on. The poor cable routing and compromised brakes on most TT bikes means you're starting with two strikes. At this point I am holding fast to my current Aoelus TLR 9's until next race season and I will look at the landscape then.

And discs have completely taken over every segment but TT bikes, so dumping more money into a non-disc, non-thru axel wheelset at this point isn't for me.

Note- I like road tubeless on everything as well, so I may be biased towards new shiny stuff. . .
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
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Kind of an apples and oranges comparison really. I really doubt the UCI TTT champs ran a marathon after their 50min ride...

Specificity is on of the keys to success/winning at a discipline.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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CPT Chaos wrote:
Kind of an apples and oranges comparison really. I really doubt the UCI TTT champs ran a marathon after their 50min ride...

Specificity is on of the keys to success/winning at a discipline.


Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not saying go elliptical instead of go for a ride. The best cyclists in the world are going to be the best whether they ride a TT bike or a road bike. If someone prefers training on one over the other, it's not going to make them incapable of riding fast on the other.

The original comment I was replying to was claiming someone must "must not do long distance triathlons very quickly then" and "because that is the best way to develop positional fitness required to be competitive"

which is straight up incorrect. You can be very quick and competitive even if you do the bulk of your training on a road bike. Will you be winning Kona? Maybe not. But there's no reason why you can't compete well and continue to improve training on two different bikes.

Also, everyone also does tris for different reasons. For me, I got burnt out of running. I ran a 2:33 marathon in 2013 and haven't gotten close since. I've accepted I'm never going to PR in the marathon again. The best thing about cycling for me is being able to see new places that I'd never see on my runs. If I wanted to be specific, I'd just ride the same boring flat ride over and over at fast speeds to practice racing. But that would ruin it for me. I passed plenty of people with $4000+ tri bikes this weekend on my lowly aluminum tri bike. Would I have passed a few more had I exclusively trained on my Tri bike? Maybe. But I'd also probably not be as motivated to get out for a ride if I wasn't going exploring mountain roads.
Last edited by: caverunner17: Jul 11, 18 12:51
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
elf6c wrote:
Tom A. wrote:



The hype about how well disc brakes work in the wet is mostly in comparison to wheels with carbon braking surfaces...which are absolutely horrid.


Confirmed, did an Olympic this year and it started pouring 3 miles into the bike leg. Came steaming into a somewhat unexpected 120 degree turn and had a pucker factor 1000 moment when the brakes did nothing for a solid 5 seconds- I was clipped out and ready for emergency maneuvers when the brakes finally started to work well enough to slow down. After that and another wet bike leg later in the year, I would be happy to jump to disc braking- especially if Shimano make a proper DI2 bullhorn hydro-brake/shifter. My dream would be a SpeedConcept with ISOSpeed in the rear, discs, thru-axels, and a "don't give a crap about the UCI box" version.

But I am a disc best case scenario- technical, hilly, fast courses, I use full carbon wheels, race in the wet, and go full tilt on the bike to make my placings.

Take a few of those away, and a current gen Speedconcept would be all I ever need.

The easiest, and most effective one of those to take away is the full carbon wheels. Pick up a set of Hed Jet Blacks to replace whatever wheels you use now, sell the old wheels to reduce the incremental cost...and never look back.

This. I don't even have a working rear brake, just an Omega X on the front with Koolstop Salmon pads and a Jet 9 Black. To be honest I wish I had bought the standard Jet+ as I find the front brake is way too strong.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
PBT_2009 wrote:
Having brakes that perform better is a benefit. Whether they're rim or discs is not my point, my point is to say that to claim braking is not important...is plain stupid.


Most people that say brakes don't matter in triathlon think they are faster than they really are.

I have Shimano pads on a TriRig Omega X with aluminum rims and rode in heavy rain last Thursday and I could barely stop in time for a red light.

Your takeaway: "I need to brake sooner in rainy conditions"

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I suppose "being competitive" is a relative term
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Grill wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
elf6c wrote:
Tom A. wrote:



The hype about how well disc brakes work in the wet is mostly in comparison to wheels with carbon braking surfaces...which are absolutely horrid.


Confirmed, did an Olympic this year and it started pouring 3 miles into the bike leg. Came steaming into a somewhat unexpected 120 degree turn and had a pucker factor 1000 moment when the brakes did nothing for a solid 5 seconds- I was clipped out and ready for emergency maneuvers when the brakes finally started to work well enough to slow down. After that and another wet bike leg later in the year, I would be happy to jump to disc braking- especially if Shimano make a proper DI2 bullhorn hydro-brake/shifter. My dream would be a SpeedConcept with ISOSpeed in the rear, discs, thru-axels, and a "don't give a crap about the UCI box" version.

But I am a disc best case scenario- technical, hilly, fast courses, I use full carbon wheels, race in the wet, and go full tilt on the bike to make my placings.

Take a few of those away, and a current gen Speedconcept would be all I ever need.


The easiest, and most effective one of those to take away is the full carbon wheels. Pick up a set of Hed Jet Blacks to replace whatever wheels you use now, sell the old wheels to reduce the incremental cost...and never look back.


This. I don't even have a working rear brake, just an Omega X on the front with Koolstop Salmon pads and a Jet 9 Black. To be honest I wish I had bought the standard Jet+ as I find the front brake is way too strong.
+1. The argument for disc brakes on TT bikes should be different than that for road bikes. Braking with rim brakes and an aluminum brake track is plenty good enough for a TT bike. For TT bikes it should be all about aero - if you can design a bike with disc brakes to be more aero than one with rim brakes, bring it on. Otherwise, don't waste our time and money.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
All manufacturers are claiming their bikes are more aero with disc brakes. If you care to dispute it, go and buy them all and take them to a wind tunnel to test.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
All manufacturers are claiming their bikes are more aero with disc brakes. If you care to dispute it, go and buy them all and take them to a wind tunnel to test.

it appears at certain yaws they are.. and certain others they are not.. Probably a wash in the end.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Imagine that - as aero or better than the previous generation with better brakes

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
All manufacturers are claiming their bikes are more aero with disc brakes. If you care to dispute it, go and buy them all and take them to a wind tunnel to test.
I skimmed the BMC materials and couldn't find that claim. Is it in there somewhere?
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This statement:

We designed aerodynamic caliper covers to optimize the airflow around the disc brake calipers and minimize the impact on aerodynamic performance. The result is the aerodynamic performance of our Timemachine with the benefits functional integration of disc brake technology.

They are basically saying as fast as their rim brake version and with better brakes.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
This statement:

We designed aerodynamic caliper covers to optimize the airflow around the disc brake calipers and minimize the impact on aerodynamic performance. The result is the aerodynamic performance of our Timemachine with the benefits functional integration of disc brake technology.

They are basically saying as fast as their rim brake version and with better brakes.
Believe me, if they had *any* shred of evidence that the disc brake version was as fast as the rim brake version, they would have put it front and center. The fact that they went with vague uninterpretable mumbo jumbo instead, hidden 3/4 of the way down the page, is proof that it is not.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well, let's go buy them and take them to the wind tunnel then? Otherwise we are just speculating

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
Won't happen. This disc brake train is not turning around.

I think that there is one thing in this discussion that is still missing...that a rim brake IS a disc brake...it is just that the pads have to concern themselves with a crushing force in the middle when using rim brakes. Now if one were to be clever, then why not make the rim where you are applying the brake force into a 'non-compressible' substrate, and have a disc brake wheel with a diameter of the wheel you are riding...thus requiring less force to crank down on it, allowing some wiggle in the 'non-compressibility'...but the problem is that this would deviate from what was previously available...disc brakes are just adaptations from mountain biking, which are adaptations from the motor world. Originality in solving this 'problem' was lost!

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [stephenj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congratulations, go file that patent and I bet Zipp, ENVE, Roval, and well everyone else is now scared.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
caverunner17 wrote:
Back in IL, quite a few triathletes I know only had a Tri bike. Or a Tri bike and a beater road bike. So it's no wonder they're going to spend the most time training on a Tri bike, because it's their best/only bike. At the same time, I look back to some of my rides in IL and I'm only at 100-200' of elevation gain over 20-30 miles.


Yup, it's Flat AF around here. 20 miles, less than 200' of climbing: https://www.strava.com/activities/976024829

But the road quality is going from bad to worse as the state struggles fiscally. There's no repairing old tertiary roads, just throwing another layer of course chip-seal on every summer until its so bad they just tear up the pavement and make it a gravel stretch. The most dedicated local triathlete I know (top 10 in AG at 2017 IM 70.3 Worlds) just bought a Cervelo C5 to cope with the deteriorating riding conditions in the area.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Jul 11, 18 14:06
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jkhayc wrote:
I suppose "being competitive" is a relative term

I'd assume that placing in the top 10% (hell top 25%) overall would make you competitive. Of course, no one has yet to prove that training exclusively on a Tri bike actually makes you faster. Just a bunch of personal opinions not backed by a study or anything. A simple search of this message board on the topic shows that some people prefer to train solely on a Tri bike others like to split it up. Again, the UCI TT results prove that the best TT bikers are the best road bikers. There's no reason why the same wouldn't be for Triathlons as well. Same motions, same muscle groups just a slightly different sitting position.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
This statement:

We designed aerodynamic caliper covers to optimize the airflow around the disc brake calipers and minimize the impact on aerodynamic performance. The result is the aerodynamic performance of our Timemachine with the benefits functional integration of disc brake technology.

They are basically saying as fast as their rim brake version and with better brakes.

LOL. They are saying nothing of the sort. It's just classic marketing obfuscation.

I get it though, disc brakes are your dream and no one is going to convince you otherwise. That's fine, but it gets so tiring seeing you try to push them upon others and make nonsensical arguments in favour of them. Just buy one already and let the rest of us stay happy with our 'old' tech.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [stephenj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stephenj wrote:
BryanD wrote:
Won't happen. This disc brake train is not turning around.


I think that there is one thing in this discussion that is still missing...that a rim brake IS a disc brake...it is just that the pads have to concern themselves with a crushing force in the middle when using rim brakes. Now if one were to be clever, then why not make the rim where you are applying the brake force into a 'non-compressible' substrate, and have a disc brake wheel with a diameter of the wheel you are riding...thus requiring less force to crank down on it, allowing some wiggle in the 'non-compressibility'...but the problem is that this would deviate from what was previously available...disc brakes are just adaptations from mountain biking, which are adaptations from the motor world. Originality in solving this 'problem' was lost!

Stephen J

Maybe "in 10 years" we'll be riding bikes with drum brakes.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My dream? Maybe I just don't care about bikes changing technology? It's a bike...buy it and ride it.

I have never cared that they are changing. Apparently, a lot of you do. Get over it.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
Imagine that - as aero or better than the previous generation with better brakes

I dispute that they're better. I have two bikes with hydraulic disc brakes now: an F-Si with XT-M8000 brakes and a freshly built up Culprit RAD that I've been on for a few days with Ultegra R8000 brakes. Both are properly set up. IMO, neither brake as well as my Shiv with Omega X brakes, Shimano TT 79 brake levers, and Hed Jet Black rims (disc rear, 4 front).

I'm not saying that the hydraulic discs brake poorly. Not by any stretch. I'd say they are on par with a good aluminum rim brake set up in the dry and a bit better when its wet.

My comparison isn't even apples to apples either. A proper comparison would be hydraulic rim brakes vs hydraulic disc brakes (or cable vs cable).
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I agree and disagree. You are training the same muscles, mostly. You are training the same aerobic system. What you are not training is your postural fitness. Holding yourself up on a road bike is very different than a mountain bike, and is different than a tri bike. Each position requires different things out of the rider. To be the best you can be at triathlon cycling (at long course, which is what I stated in my first post on this tangential thread direction) you really should ride the tri bike in your aero bars the majority of the time (that simply means 51%, FYI). You even admitted yourself that you "might have been faster if you only trained on your tri bike" before saying that would kill the sport for you. And that's fine, not arguing that. But you are trading enjoyment for results. (hypothetically)
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
GreenPlease wrote:
BryanD wrote:
Imagine that - as aero or better than the previous generation with better brakes


I dispute that they're better. I have two bikes with hydraulic disc brakes now: an F-Si with XT-M8000 brakes and a freshly built up Culprit RAD that I've been on for a few days with Ultegra R8000 brakes. Both are properly set up. IMO, neither brake as well as my Shiv with Omega X brakes, Shimano TT 79 brake levers, and Hed Jet Black rims (disc rear, 4 front).

I'm not saying that the hydraulic discs brake poorly. Not by any stretch. I'd say they are on par with a good aluminum rim brake set up in the dry and a bit better when its wet.

My comparison isn't even apples to apples either. A proper comparison would be hydraulic rim brakes vs hydraulic disc brakes (or cable vs cable).

IMHO, they're harder to set up right. My rim brakes are set it and forget for the most part, whereas my MTB discs seem to need frequent adjusting or cleaning to brake well and not squeak.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with that.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
My dream? Maybe I just don't care about bikes changing technology? It's a bike...buy it and ride it.

I have never cared that they are changing. Apparently, a lot of you do. Get over it.

Wut? Do you even read what you post?
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here we go again...

I don’t care. I have an open mind. You and many others won’t stop shouting about how it’s the end of the world for bicycles.

I have repeatedly said wait and see and am excited about a new direction. Of course you can’t accept that things are changing. I get it. Change is hard for most people.

Change is not hard to accept for me. While you criticize every post I make about it, brag about your NDA and drag numbers, the rest of us moderate people on here could care less. We just like bikes.

Is that clear enough for you to read?

When the top of the line bikes from each manufacturer are going disc brake what are we going to do? Get mad and protest? Buy old frames and parts? Go tell them on Facebook how wrong they are?
How about buy the bike and have fun.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Jul 11, 18 15:20
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
iron_mike wrote:


then, some bold company will release a 'climbing' version of their aero road bike for some premier pro tour rider at a hilly road race or mountain stage. it will be the same bike, but with rim brakes and mech shifting - same aerodynamics, a half-pound lighter.

then, everyone will start talking about needing a 'climbing' bike, and convincing themselves that their training and racing rides are 'pretty hilly,' and then everyone will want to get the new rim brakes and mech shifting just so that they can get neutral support, and saving weight's pretty important, and etc. except now mech and rim brakes will be more expensive that discs and electro.

and a few holdouts will come onto slowtwitch and say, "now's a great time to make a killing on second-hand rim-brake wheelsets!


Nah, what's more likely to happen is that urban hipsters will drop fixies and adopt rim-brake, mechanical shifting bikes as retro-cool, then boutique builders will spring up to sell them lousy to mediocre quality bikes at premium prices. But the "true" hipsters will recognize the quality of actual vintage bikes, and we'll all finally be able to liquidate our collection of rim brake wheels and frames.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Jul 11, 18 15:42
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
elf6c wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
elf6c wrote:
Tom A. wrote:



The hype about how well disc brakes work in the wet is mostly in comparison to wheels with carbon braking surfaces...which are absolutely horrid.


Confirmed, did an Olympic this year and it started pouring 3 miles into the bike leg. Came steaming into a somewhat unexpected 120 degree turn and had a pucker factor 1000 moment when the brakes did nothing for a solid 5 seconds- I was clipped out and ready for emergency maneuvers when the brakes finally started to work well enough to slow down. After that and another wet bike leg later in the year, I would be happy to jump to disc braking- especially if Shimano make a proper DI2 bullhorn hydro-brake/shifter. My dream would be a SpeedConcept with ISOSpeed in the rear, discs, thru-axels, and a "don't give a crap about the UCI box" version.

But I am a disc best case scenario- technical, hilly, fast courses, I use full carbon wheels, race in the wet, and go full tilt on the bike to make my placings.

Take a few of those away, and a current gen Speedconcept would be all I ever need.


The easiest, and most effective one of those to take away is the full carbon wheels. Pick up a set of Hed Jet Blacks to replace whatever wheels you use now, sell the old wheels to reduce the incremental cost...and never look back.

The braking is a little better on these hybrid wheels but not enough to drop another $1.5-2k on. The poor cable routing and compromised brakes on most TT bikes means you're starting with two strikes. At this point I am holding fast to my current Aoelus TLR 9's until next race season and I will look at the landscape then.

And discs have completely taken over every segment but TT bikes, so dumping more money into a non-disc, non-thru axel wheelset at this point isn't for me.

Note- I like road tubeless on everything as well, so I may be biased towards new shiny stuff. . .

"A little better"? You obviously haven't tried the Jet Blacks then.

Also, you're forgetting that the incremental cost is reduced if you sell the old wheels. Either way, it's significantly less than a whole new bike and wheels.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
caverunner17 wrote:
CPT Chaos wrote:
To contrast you, I rode 15 hours last week, with 14 of them on the tri bike. On two of the rides on the tri bike, I had pissing rain for 3 hours (was very glad to have hydraulic brakes) and each had over 6k of climbing. To say elevation limits one's riding to only a tri bike is just wrong.


Good for you, I guess?

I'm not saying there aren't outliers or people in CO who only own a tri bike. Perhaps if you have DI2 on the brake levers things are different, but for the majority who have mechanical shifting, a Tri bike is not a great climbing bike, given the need for frequent switching of gears out of aero, and trying to climb in aero at 10-12MPH (or slower if a super steep climb) is pretty unstable and you can't pull against the aerobars nearly as well as you can on shift levers on a road bike. It's like trying to take Prius on backcountry trail roads. It might make it, but it's not the best tool for the job. Not to mention a lot of local group rides won't allow tri-bikes for safety reasons.

Again, bike fitness is transferable. As long as you're comfortable on your tri bike and have done enough practice rides, it's not as if training on your road bike is going to take away from your Tri bike fitness. Look at the UCI world championship TT. The top guys are almost always top tier Tour guys who... you guessed it, spend most of their time training on road bikes. Looking down on someone because they train a bulk of their miles on a road bike is pretty stupid in my opinion, assuming they have a well-fitting Tri bike and do ride on occasion to get a comfortable position. If it's good enough for the pros, it's good enough for the rest of the people.


Agreed. For example, I hadn't touched my TT bike since last fall. I've been doing a lot of road and mixed surface riding, but nothing in the TT position.

Well...last month I went out to the local 10 mile TT and came within 6 secs of my PR for the course...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jul 11, 18 15:58
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
This statement:

We designed aerodynamic caliper covers to optimize the airflow around the disc brake calipers and minimize the impact on aerodynamic performance. The result is the aerodynamic performance of our Timemachine with the benefits functional integration of disc brake technology.

They are basically saying as fast as their rim brake version and with better brakes.

Huh...did they say how they were able to keep those covers from causing brake overheating on descents? It's not like discs don't overheat even without the covers...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congratulations, a 23:30 10mi flat/rolling TT is TOTALLY an analog for a long course triathlon bike performance. Clap clap.
Last edited by: jkhayc: Jul 11, 18 16:15
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jkhayc wrote:
Congratulations, a 23:30 10mi flat/rolling TT is TOTALLY an analog for a long course triathlon bike performance. Clap clap.


Dammit...I just KNEW I should've added that caveat about it not being a very long distance ;-)

That said...I'm fairly certain Jordan Rapp trained mainly on his road bike while he was still a long course triathlete...just sayin'...

Edit: Oh, and that course has three 180 turnarounds, four 90 turns, and a net elevation gain...so, it's not exactly a "fast" course (you stalker :-P )

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jul 11, 18 16:23
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yep. 2010 P3 here. I know there are naysayers on 12 sp as Campy already has it, but you will see everyone else coming out with 12 sp. Hopefully a different set of wheels from 11 sp aren't going to be needed. Right now I'm on 10-and Zipp said my my disc wheel can't have the hub swapped out for 11 due to dishing. Which I found odd that a Zipp 900 has any dishing at all...it's flat. Either way, yeah, disc brakes it is, the choice seems to be made for us by the manufacturers.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Full time pros get a pass from my sweeping generalization given the fact that their adaptation period is generally shorter than even FOP AG athletes (with jobs).

Plus, I feel like saying "pros are sometimes fast in spite of their decisions" is a good thing to say in this moment.

ETA - I did that course once. It was miserable on a borrowed road bike. That's how I knew where to look, ha.
Last edited by: jkhayc: Jul 11, 18 16:26
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rocky M wrote:
I know there are naysayers on 12 sp as Campy already has it, but you will see everyone else coming out with 12 sp. Hopefully a different set of wheels from 11 sp aren't going to be needed.

The SRAM PG-1230 Eagle 12 speed mountain cassette fits on a current standard 11-speed Shimano/SRAM freehub....or even an 8/9/10 speed freehub. Rotor will be launching 11-speed-freehub compatible 12-speed cassettes with more road-friendly ranges early next year. If you want a 10T (or 9T) small sprocket, you're going to need a new freehub. But, if you can manage with an 11T smallest sprocket, 12 speed is not automatically incompatible with current wheels.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [mike s] [ In reply to ]
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So.....what do we all think of the new BMC TM?
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [mike s] [ In reply to ]
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mike s wrote:
So.....what do we all think of the new BMC TM?
If they're not even willing to claim that it's faster than the old one, then... yawn
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
lanierb wrote:
BryanD wrote:
This statement:

We designed aerodynamic caliper covers to optimize the airflow around the disc brake calipers and minimize the impact on aerodynamic performance. The result is the aerodynamic performance of our Timemachine with the benefits functional integration of disc brake technology.

They are basically saying as fast as their rim brake version and with better brakes.

Believe me, if they had *any* shred of evidence that the disc brake version was as fast as the rim brake version, they would have put it front and center. The fact that they went with vague uninterpretable mumbo jumbo instead, hidden 3/4 of the way down the page, is proof that it is not.

I think that is " fair " to say.. the burden of proving it's faster then rim brake model is on the disc brake model. Every other mfg has stated these things but BMC choses to be vague. I still want the TM01 Disc but LanierB is right.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
i TRULY do not understand why everyone think that the design's idea is to be faster. its to STOP faster. if the bike is equally as fast and stops faster, then mission accomplished.

80/20 Endurance Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
People need to understand that bike companies are focusing on things beyond aerodynamics

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [mike s] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mike s wrote:
So.....what do we all think of the new BMC TM?

Freaking awesome. I love my older TM01, but the brakes suck. They are weak, a pain to adjust, and changing pads requires pulling my crank on the rears. I'm a mediocre cyclist at best and don't have the bank account to purchase new bikes. But maybe one day, or maybe I'll just wait till this is a few years old and I can find one in my size used.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
Here we go again...

I don’t care. I have an open mind. You and many others won’t stop shouting about how it’s the end of the world for bicycles.

I have repeatedly said wait and see and am excited about a new direction. Of course you can’t accept that things are changing. I get it. Change is hard for most people.

Change is not hard to accept for me. While you criticize every post I make about it, brag about your NDA and drag numbers, the rest of us moderate people on here could care less. We just like bikes.

Is that clear enough for you to read?

When the top of the line bikes from each manufacturer are going disc brake what are we going to do? Get mad and protest? Buy old frames and parts? Go tell them on Facebook how wrong they are?
How about buy the bike and have fun.

But you just said you don't care about bikes changing technology? So which is it?

As for me, I'm happy with my lot. Won't see me buying anything new until all my current stuff goes to pieces.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
caverunner17 wrote:
BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.

Why? How much time do you really spend braking on a Tri bike? How often do you ride in the rain?

I'm not negating the advantages for commuters, CX or MTB bikes. But for the rest of us, there's not that significant of a difference, at least not enough of a difference to have to get all new wheelsets. It's just something new for the manufacturers to sell us

X2

I really don't understand how manufacturers can just abandon bringing out rim brake models.

Trek at least have a New Madone SLR in rim and disk.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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So the bike *may* be equally as fast. And let's say it stops faster, for the sake of argument.

But it's also much more expensive and many times more complex.

entry level average price on one of those new aero road bikes launched last week is ~$5k. You could get a whole lot of rim brake bike for $5k.

Your maintenance costs will go up as well. Bleeding brakes, bent disc rotors... how much is your time worth?
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
davidalone wrote:
So the bike *may* be equally as fast. And let's say it stops faster, for the sake of argument.

But it's also much more expensive and many times more complex.

entry level average price on one of those new aero road bikes launched last week is ~$5k. You could get a whole lot of rim brake bike for $5k.

Your maintenance costs will go up as well. Bleeding brakes, bent disc rotors... how much is your time worth?

safety > time.

80/20 Endurance Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Congratulations, go file that patent and I bet Zipp, ENVE, Roval, and well everyone else is now scared.

I don't need to apply for patents for obvious ideas such as that. I already have 18 patents/patent apps. covering molecular biology/chemistry, engineering, nanotechnology, and microfluidics arrived at the hard way (at the bench, not by being a supervisor taking credit for ideas brought to them). Ill give the rim idea away for free (since it is not new or novel). Oh, and try not to be so arrogant in your reply if you can help it.

Oh, and you never addressed the point of what I was writing...that there is no difference between using the rim as a disc or a separate entity as the disc; and that we arrived where we are with disc design by very incremental advances; rather than any sort of leap (small or large).

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.

Fair enough...but what if your wheels are a nice Zipp Super 9 and 808..? Would you not then go for something like a Trek Speedconcept or a Cervelo P5 etc..?

My point is the market for disc brake TT bikes is going to be people buying their first TT bike...or people looking to change their entire set up.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
People need to understand that bike companies are focusing on things beyond aerodynamics

The main thing they focus on is making money; otherwise, they do not remain a company...and people do not need to understand that, it is just helpful to understand that if one wants to understand the motivations of a company which cause them to take certain actions and go in certain directions.

I agree with a bunch of your thoughts on the matter (discs are making inroads to bicycle design and are on their way to be the go-to braking methodology), but I think that the reasons you use to back it up are not primary in the minds of the companies which product this stuff.

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
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davidalone wrote:
it's also much more expensive and many times more complex.

entry level average price on one of those new aero road bikes launched last week is ~$5k.

maintenance costs will go up as well.

"I wonder why triathlon isn't growing?"

if the Manufacturers think it takes $5K to gain entry, then the door isn't really open. people can talk about these nonsensical $10K-$14K bikes and that's fine. the lift in the bottom is the real issue.

sigh ...
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [alexer03] [ In reply to ]
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alexer03 wrote:
mike s wrote:
So.....what do we all think of the new BMC TM?


Freaking awesome. I love my older TM01, but the brakes suck. They are weak, a pain to adjust, and changing pads requires pulling my crank on the rears. I'm a mediocre cyclist at best and don't have the bank account to purchase new bikes. But maybe one day, or maybe I'll just wait till this is a few years old and I can find one in my size used.

I'm also a mediocre cyclist, and I have a question for you.......How often do you change brake pads? I've done over 70 triathlons since 2010 (and all the associated training miles) and have yet to change a set of brake pads.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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It's not that I have to change them, but when I want to adjust the brakes or swap between training and racing wheels I can't without it being a major issue.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [UKathlete] [ In reply to ]
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UKathlete wrote:
BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.


Fair enough...but what if your wheels are a nice Zipp Super 9 and 808..? Would you not then go for something like a Trek Speedconcept or a Cervelo P5 etc..?

My point is the market for disc brake TT bikes is going to be people buying their first TT bike...or people looking to change their entire set up.

Sold my 808/Super 9. No interest in a P5 or Speed Concept.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
UKathlete wrote:
BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.


Fair enough...but what if your wheels are a nice Zipp Super 9 and 808..? Would you not then go for something like a Trek Speedconcept or a Cervelo P5 etc..?

My point is the market for disc brake TT bikes is going to be people buying their first TT bike...or people looking to change their entire set up.


Sold my 808/Super 9. No interest in a P5 or Speed Concept.

Picked up some Hed Jet Blacks? ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Nah. Renting an 808/Super 9 from my shop.

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Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
Because the future of triathlon bikes is disc brakes, not rim brakes. I've ridden my P2 for 7 years. My next bike will be ridden 7-8 years too. 10 years from now, bikes will not be rim brakes. I'm buying something to last, not rim brakes because Slowtwitch tells me to.

I understand this logic. The only issue maybe on changing standards. I still think there are a number of refinements to come for disc brake road / tri/ TT use and probably a number of standards to cycle through.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [boing] [ In reply to ]
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boing wrote:
BryanD wrote:
Because the future of triathlon bikes is disc brakes, not rim brakes. I've ridden my P2 for 7 years. My next bike will be ridden 7-8 years too. 10 years from now, bikes will not be rim brakes. I'm buying something to last, not rim brakes because Slowtwitch tells me to.


I understand this logic. The only issue maybe on changing standards. I still think there are a number of refinements to come for disc brake road / tri/ TT use and probably a number of standards to cycle through.

Definitely not disagreeing there. I only hope it doesn't end up like bottom brackets. Why is there 648694964 different bottom brackets....

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Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [cowboy7] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cowboy7 wrote:
caverunner17 wrote:
BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.


Why? How much time do you really spend braking on a Tri bike? How often do you ride in the rain?

I'm not negating the advantages for commuters, CX or MTB bikes. But for the rest of us, there's not that significant of a difference, at least not enough of a difference to have to get all new wheelsets. It's just something new for the manufacturers to sell us


X2

I really don't understand how manufacturers can just abandon bringing out rim brake models.

Trek at least have a New Madone SLR in rim and disk.

They still offer the Domane in a rim brake model in addition to disc brake model.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:


Sold my 808/Super 9. No interest in a P5 or Speed Concept.[/quote]

What I don’t understand is that You haven’t embraced the latest technology in the last years since you ride a 2012 P2–a perfectly fine machine. But now you are apparently “embracing change” you just want everyone else to just “buy the bike and have fun”

Why can’t you acccept that some are reluctant to that change just like you have been for years????

Edit-I see you have a 2011 P2 so it’s been 7 years...
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Jul 12, 18 8:30
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't change because I couldn't afford it. Student loans said no are still saying don't do it! :)

I understand reluctance but getting pissed off about it on here and acting like it's the end of the world makes me laugh.

Change happens all the time. I'm glad I never bought a P5 or a new rim brake bike. Exciting times are ahead. I'm also very glad I didn't buy a P5-X. I can at least thank Grill and others for that :)

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Jul 12, 18 8:34
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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sold my 808/Super9 as well.. using Enve 7.8 with my 2014 BMC TM01. I think I will be content with this for this year and next. Hoping there will be another TM01 in a couple years time.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Your reasoning for not embracing the technology doesn't really matter. Many are hesitant to embrace disc brakes for the same reason you didn't upgrade your P2, but you don't appear to cut them any slack. Although I do appreciate his insight and inout into the conversation, Tom A's reasoning for not wanting disc brakes represents about .01% of the biking/triathloin population. There are many reasons to be hesitant to the new technology.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Finances are always relevant when discussing this expensive sport.

I'm more against the people who are "never disc brake!". I just kind of think it's silly. If you had an open mind and admitted you were concerned about the cost, I can see that. New frames, new wheels. If you are in the market for a new bike, it makes sense to go disc brake. Sell your old wheels.

If you rant on here about aero this, weight that, conspiracy theories of Slowman/Bike Industry trying to sell us new stuff, omg I won't qualify for Kona because of disc brakes!!!!!, etc., well yeah, I'm going to say something.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just bought a barely used P5 and S5 over the past off season for a fraction of the price new ones cost (like, really, really good deals!)
This disc brake era doesn't make me regret my decision one bit. I'm on some of the fastest setups going and the tech works and is proven (sure disc brakes stop faster, but ime, I've had no problems ever stopping on rim brakes, and I don't know anyone who's had that issue).
The price of this new stuff is 3-5x the cost (maybe more) of what I spent, so that alone, is reason for me to be content :)

If I hang to these for 7-10 yrs and can't get value back, I'll pass them on to my boys. It's cool that this era seems to be working out for your timing and budget, but you can't expect that for everyone. I also think it'll be a very long time, if ever, before you see rim brake bikes being a thing of the past/obsolete. Time will tell.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [JBell] [ In reply to ]
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I never said you had to buy disc brakes now.

I said that in the future, manufacturers will be releasing disc only versions and slowly fading out rim brakes. Surprise! It's happening now.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:

I said that in the future, manufacturers will be releasing disc only versions and slowly fading out rim brakes. Surprise! It's happening now.

What manufacturer has faded--or even begun to fade out--out rim brakes??? Most manufacturers have 1-2 road bike models with disc brakes. In fact, because I'm considering disc brakes on a road bike, I'm actually finding myself quite limited in my selection if I go that route. I think you are mixing up phasing in disc brakes with phasing out rim brakes. It will be several years before the scales tip in favor of more disc than rim brake models, if they every do.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Specialized Venge, BMC Road Machine, Cannondale System Six, etc. are disc only and more are coming.

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Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
I never said you had to buy disc brakes now.

I said that in the future, manufacturers will be releasing disc only versions and slowly fading out rim brakes. Surprise! It's happening now.

We'll see if it "sticks"...remember when Giant went all-in on 650B MTBs only? That didn't last very long...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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If it doesn't, then I will admit I was wrong.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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You are referring to models not manufacturers. Let me know when a manufacturer phases out rim brakes.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Will do!

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
BryanD wrote:
I never said you had to buy disc brakes now.

I said that in the future, manufacturers will be releasing disc only versions and slowly fading out rim brakes. Surprise! It's happening now.


We'll see if it "sticks"...remember when Giant went all-in on 650B MTBs only? That didn't last very long...
I think one reason you're seeing discs right now is that the UCI has kept the weight limit the same for so long. We've hit the point where there is a couple pounds of wiggle room to play with, so why not? If and when the UCI finally lowers the weight limit, there will be at least some shift back the other way.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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Let’s all be honest, there is one reason we are seeing discs and it was already mentioned in this thread-money. As soon as people stop (or never start) buying them, they will stop making them and move onto the next “greatest” technology that they believe will want people to buy/change/upgrade their bikes. It’s really that simple.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
lanierb wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
BryanD wrote:
I never said you had to buy disc brakes now.

I said that in the future, manufacturers will be releasing disc only versions and slowly fading out rim brakes. Surprise! It's happening now.


We'll see if it "sticks"...remember when Giant went all-in on 650B MTBs only? That didn't last very long...

I think one reason you're seeing discs right now is that the UCI has kept the weight limit the same for so long. We've hit the point where there is a couple pounds of wiggle room to play with, so why not? If and when the UCI finally lowers the weight limit, there will be at least some shift back the other way.

pretty sure the bike mfg would hate the UCI to drop the limit right now.
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DFW_Tri wrote:
Let’s all be honest, there is one reason we are seeing discs and it was already mentioned in this thread-money. As soon as people stop (or never start) buying them, they will stop making them and move onto the next “greatest” technology that they believe will want people to buy/change/upgrade their bikes. It’s really that simple.

You can say the same thing about electronic shifting. And 10, 11, and the coming 12 speed.

Let's just stop riding bikes!

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [JBell] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think I am on a similar page as you. We have a couple of n.P3s with some of the best rim brakes on earth (gen 2 eebrakes) with kool-stop salmon pads, and use training and race wheels with AL rims and we get awesome braking in all conditions. I will never say never, but having used disc brakes extensively and having seen both their upsides and their major downsides and big headaches, I think it will be a long while before disc brake road bikes work well enough for me for road and tri applications. But if disc brake systems improve A LOT, sure, anything is possible ... I just don't know when that will happen but my guess is that it won't be very soon.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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--
Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jul 12, 18 14:22
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spntrxi wrote:
lanierb wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
BryanD wrote:
I never said you had to buy disc brakes now.

I said that in the future, manufacturers will be releasing disc only versions and slowly fading out rim brakes. Surprise! It's happening now.


We'll see if it "sticks"...remember when Giant went all-in on 650B MTBs only? That didn't last very long...

I think one reason you're seeing discs right now is that the UCI has kept the weight limit the same for so long. We've hit the point where there is a couple pounds of wiggle room to play with, so why not? If and when the UCI finally lowers the weight limit, there will be at least some shift back the other way.


pretty sure the bike mfg would hate the UCI to drop the limit right now.

I heard on a podcast recently (I think the Cyclingtips one from the stage 3 TTT?) that the UCI is apparently on the verge of lowering it...possibly to somewhere in the range of 5.8 - 6.4 kg IIRC.

That would certainly, to borrow a phrase from Phil, "Throw a cat amongst the pigeons" ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DFW_Tri wrote:
What manufacturer has faded--or even begun to fade out--out rim brakes??? Most manufacturers have 1-2 road bike models with disc brakes. In fact, because I'm considering disc brakes on a road bike, I'm actually finding myself quite limited in my selection if I go that route. I think you are mixing up phasing in disc brakes with phasing out rim brakes. It will be several years before the scales tip in favor of more disc than rim brake models, if they every do.
The answer to your question is closer than you think.
https://www.bmc-switzerland.com/sc-en/bikes/road/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Kristoffer] [ In reply to ]
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Disc brakes solving a problem that doesn’t exist
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
You are referring to models not manufacturers. Let me know when a manufacturer phases out rim brakes.

The word on the street is in 2019 if you want the latest tarmac in rim brakes you will have to buy a frameset. The venge is Disc only, and the Allez Sprint is supposedly coming out with a Disc model shortly. That's a pretty definite phasing out of rim brakes by Specialized if it all happens in the time frame they say it will.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
If it doesn't, then I will admit I was wrong.

Oh I think some will. And then someone will have the bright idea that to sell more bikes they can release rim brake versions and market them as 'aero' for 20% more than their disc brake counterparts.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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You said this: [quote]Imagine that - as aero or better than the previous generation with better brakes [/quote]

What you should have said is this:

Imagine that - maybe more aero maybe not but with better brakes



Send me a 6 pack of RBC Hell Yes ma'am as thanks for fixing that for you!

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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
here is something I posted ~ 1yr ago regarding the 2019 bike lines & disc brakes: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6355206#p6355206

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Last edited by: desert dude: Jul 12, 18 10:58
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah discs are a total fad, just ask any mountain biker, gravel racer, adventure rider, cyclocrosser . . . .

Oh that's right- they completely dominate every segment but high end road racing bikes (until this TdF at least, now this segment is starting to fall with the UCI block removed) and TT/Tri bikes (I would expect that reflects the smaller market and hefty used market is slowing the rollout out new Tri bikes- especially see how fast a used Shiv/Speedconcept/P3C/P4 are, and how cheap they can be bought).

BMC showed a lot of faith in the Tri market to spend the cash to roll this out.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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The people predicting that disc brakes fail and rim brake bikes come back make me laugh

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
I think I am on a similar page as you. We have a couple of n.P3s with some of the best rim brakes on earth (gen 2 eebrakes) with kool-stop salmon pads, and use training and race wheels with AL rims and we get awesome braking in all conditions. I will never say never, but having used disc brakes extensively and having seen both their upsides and their major downsides and headaches, it will be a while before disc brake road bikes work well enough for me for road and tri applications. But if disc brake systems improve A LOT, anything is possible ... I just don't know when that will happen.

This is where I'm at. I'm not against disc brakes, I'm just not for what we currently have. For me, moving to discs right now would be a lateral move, just spending a lot of money to replace everything for no real improvement...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Rim brake bikes aren't going anywhere mate.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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What will you say when Specialized eliminates them? New Shiv won't be rim brake

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Quote Reply
Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
People said the same thing when MTB went through this transition. I recall many conversations where people were saying many of the anti-disc brake things as here. How many MTBs are available now with rim brakes? 1% of those above the Kmart level?



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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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And how many people hated electronic shifting too and yet won't ride a bike without it now?

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
UKathlete wrote:
BryanD wrote:
If you have an old 2011 P2 like me, you would be looking for a disc brake bike as your next bike.


Fair enough...but what if your wheels are a nice Zipp Super 9 and 808..? Would you not then go for something like a Trek Speedconcept or a Cervelo P5 etc..?

My point is the market for disc brake TT bikes is going to be people buying their first TT bike...or people looking to change their entire set up.

Sold my 808/Super 9. No interest in a P5 or Speed Concept.

I’d absolutely sell my current bike and wheels for a new disc brake super bike...but it would have to be something really different...I wouldn’t do it for something similar to what I already have.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Can't speak for buying habits in the US, but on this side of the pond they're not going anywhere. Specialized? Who cares. The 'big brands' don't have the same type of market dominance over here, and when it comes to the TT/tri scene, there isn't the same appetite for dumping 10k into a first bike (the dentist phenomenon does happen, but it's the exception).

Comparing discs on road bike with mountain bikes is silly, as is comparing road bikes with TT/tri bikes. They all have their place and the market is large enough for all of them. When it comes to TTs, I have yet to see a single bike with discs at a race and can't recall seeing any marketing for them. Generally people over here are happier with their lot and will spend on pretty much anything else before a new frame. Look at it this way; in the US it is near impossible to find any car with a stick shift, whereas here it makes up the vast majority of cars (and no one really complains about it). In fact, if you pass your test on an automatic then you aren't allowed to drive stick. Come to think of it, it's not a wholly inappropriate metaphor for bike control...
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
The people predicting that disc brakes fail and rim brake bikes come back make me laugh


It has nothing to do with that. Rim Brake bikes haven't "gone" anywhere. Even Trek's entry level MTB still has rim brakes.

At the moment, disc TT bikes are only on high end bikes. For road bikes, there's a premium for them. It's going to be quite a few years for the "standard" for road bikes to move to disc and even longer for tri bikes to do so. There's also a lot of people who frankly don't care about disc brakes and unless they become a standard, won't spend the extra money when buying a bike to get them. The only real advantage they offer on road/TT bikes is during wet conditions. And at least many bikers I know won't ride in wet conditions, they'll either swap days to ride on a dry day or hit up the trainer.

You also have to look at the severe differences with CX/MTB rides - dirt and mud are extremely common and do effect performance a lot. You also have much larger tires which makes it harder to use caliper brakes and instead relying on V brakes/Cantilever which are far inferior. Moving to disc in those segments do make sense. For road, those issues come up much less.




Again, it comes down to a price/performance thing. The gains for moving to disc right now aren't worth the cost unless you're riding in wet conditions often and are looking for a high-end bike. When that changes and prices come down to a reasonable level, you'll see more adoption in the TT/Tri crowd.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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Ride with aluminium rimmed wheels. They're really safe as well.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
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It’ll also take awhile to get people to switch in the high end space because it’s not replacing a bike it’s replacing a wheel stable for some people.

I’m all over the place on capatibility right now just between bikes with 10spd vs 11 spd. I’d go crazy adding discs into the mix.
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Re: BMC Timemachine TT Disc [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in the same boat. Among the two adults in this house we have 5 28"/700 bikes. I have always made sure that cassettes/chains/wheels/tubes remain interchangeable between them, because I like to do stuff myself, don't want to afford having hundreads invested in spare parts filling up shelves and I don't plan on opening up a warehouse in my house for this stuff either. Whats more is that I dont see myself selling perfectly fine carbon wheels at a loss in order to get (potentially) better breaking modulation either (seeing how all my rim brakes are absolutely capable of locking my wheels in place, its really just a question of modulation/control and not of pure stopping power for me).

In my opinion what we really need is more accessible quality options in the center pull rim brake market but with the stopping power of shimano 105/ultegra/da brakes.
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