I honestly have no idea what you're talking about skin wise.. but man, isn't the coverage of SA great?

Yes! For once!

I would say he has a very good idea of what is fast for him. He tests a lot. But even if it is slower than ribbed suits, it’s not 10 min slower.
We don’t have any idea how hard he went on the bike compared to Kona, or how hard the others went. Maybe he was saving it for the run and held off?

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

He may have had a 20 min lead on Josh at T2, but Josh has said his race at Kona was crap and Cam was riding with Lionel and Sebi too vs solo today. I think the delta is more to do with tactics than anything!

Dev

So you don’t think he would turn down a shed load of money from Castelli if it was slower?
I don’t reckon so.

I’ve not said tactics didn’t play a part, but looking at a handful of rides in comparison, I reckon he’s possibly given away maybe 5 minutes,
The castelli suit is good, but it’s old tech now.

I'm fairly certain he would turn them down. That's probably the reason he still has so few sponsors.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Maybe. But considering the guys he trains in are all in castelli....

Perhaps if he went with the Roka hyperlime colored suit he would have saved a full hour on his competitors rather than 10 minutes. After all, we all know the suit is what wins races and nothing else. Smdh...

It was just a thought, no need to be a dick

Just imagine how fast he would be on a p5x

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

What makes you think the Castelli isn’t faster which it most certainly is! Muhahaha

Faster?
It’s the old T1 top.
I tested this versus an identical suit to the rubber roka, it was approx 10w slower. So I’d say he’s losing a good chunk.

I’d say you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Is it remotely possible that it tests differently on him than on you?

Present your data then.
Are you a castelli fan boy?

Sometimes I think wattage numbers from wind tunnels are trumped-up bullshit to feed the customer.

Discuss

Of course!
Hence why it’s an IDEA
Not absolute.

Agree. Hence why my data is a wind tunnel, velodrome and road testing average

Did you buy castellis? Original 6 minute claim?

sounds good, post all your data and we can analyze. You’ve been around long enough to know what your “idea” is is stupid and makes no sense.

Do you work for castelli?

Post your data on your testing on wurf, which is what you originally claimed, otherwise I’m calling BS on your ‘faster’ comment.

Post your data that it isnt? Since neither of you have anything relevant, it's been fairly thoroughly shown that different suits test differently on different people, and wurf puts a lot of thought into his equipment choices I'm going to assume it's probably not slower on him.

Tribryan, in case you haven't figured it out yet, claiming one is faster than the other is pointless and impossible to prove. They are both top of the line suits and will test TOTALLY different on you, me, wurf, burger, hoff etc.

that escalated quickly......

As I say I’d love to believe that.
But I reckon the castelli rep got to him during his training with team sky.
Just a thought....

If he did then he’s a silly boy as he could have have been up there at Kona

At least spell my name right...

I hope your name doesn’t refer to that doper wiggins

His name is a book reference.

Why are you so angry about this?

Oh I’m not angry, everyone else seems to think the idea of a pro taking slower equipment because of sponsorship is ludicrous

Starky
Crowie

The list is endless

Wurf was an average cyclist, I doubt he has much money.....

I actually agree with you completely on that. I get it that you don't do the sport for money, but you have to eat somehow. Plus the difference between most pieces of kit is very small.

In wurf's case, he has so few sponsors i think he's fairly picky when it comes to his gear. Just my feeling based on his breakdown of his kona wheel choice and such.

I would have completely agreed with you.

Till I saw him in that suit....

Then I did some fag packet numbers...

And it all made sense...

what people are saying is that because it tested slower for you it donst mean it tested slower for him.

also i assume you dont know how he trained for this race and if he was peak shape etc you your kona comparasion is not great.

I guess you are a bit agressive as this where the points endawiggins made.

You’re nothing more than an over-aggressive Roka shill. Looking at your post history it’s easy to see. It also ruins your credibility because you’re overtly biased.

As well, using the f word towards anyone is just very poor form. It’s difficult for me to respect anyone who uses that kind of language.

Fag packet? Is that offensive over there? We use it for cigarettes over here, it doesn’t have negative connotations.
Really sorry if I offended anyone.

I have nothing to do with roka, their suit is just a copy of the endura one, which is remarkably fast compared to almost every other suit I’ve tested.
The new suit is almost cheating

Yeah, considering the guys he trains with...hmmm

---

https://twitter.com/mungub

In the USA (maybe elsewhere) “fag” is only used as a derogatory term for a gay man. 99.9% of the people would be completely unfamiliar with its use as a cigarette.

I'll second the "fag packet" meaning this side of the pond. It is never used in a homophobic or otherwise derogatory sense. It's a well used phrase. I can see how it could be interpreted that way by people living in the US because of how the word is used there but it was not meant in an offensive way.

I have no opinion on Wurf's suit btw!

Probably good to stay away from that one, even if taken out of context.

Certainly won't be using that one! All the best.

It definitely happens, but I think you are giving some of these individuals too much credit. Many simply don't even know the equipment is slower and are none the wiser. In regards to skinsuits, I have yet to see a suit that is faster on me than a rear zip sleeveless. Not only did it test fast on the bike but it tested fastest in the water as well. The reality is at the pro level, often time the equipment they get is not even the same as the age-grouper. Take for instance Trek, only the top pros are getting the top level carbon this year in the bikes. The only way to get that stronger, stiffer, and lighter bike is to be a top Trek pro. It is long been insider knowledge that the best athletes have had custom wetsuits made with a label slapped on them. That is not something you or me have access too. I highly suspect that some companies are doing the same for apparel like trisuits as well. A huge advantage of a sponsor could be, hey, we will make you custom suits, and you can have a brand new one for each race.

Regardless of what is fast on you or me it may not be fast on someone else. I would love to see the testing you did on this Roka suit to expand my knowledge base. I am not saying it is slow, but I do think when testing suits we all make a couple of errors. One big error is we tend to test brand new tight fitting suits against old suits that have developed bag, sag, and general wear. It isn't apples-to-apples. Then we don't test the suit as it sits coming out of the water, or when it is wet, or after it has been saturated with salt and is baggy towards the end of a 112 mile ride. We also don't test the negative effects of the suits in the water. Back to the sleeveless rear zip, not only did it test fast for me, but it also tends to sit (coming out of the water) the same way then when I put it on in the morning. That is yet another incalculable benefit as I don't need to mess with it while on the bike.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Yeh we don’t use it for that at all over here.
I guess it’s the same as a few other words you guys use that are very offensive over here.
Take fanny for example.
Either way sorry if i offended

What type of a stupid thread is this. Wurf got spanked by anywhere from 12 to 17 minutes on the RUN by guys he needs to beat. His clothing has exactly ZERO to do with that part. I am a fan of Wurf, but this entire thread is ridiculous. We're arguing about Wurf's clothing rather than talking about a stellar superbly paced break out race with a 2:48 run by Kyle Buckingham and he's the same weight as Wurf, so it just shows what is possible. The clothing is an ST diversion about GEAR that you guys are fixating on relative to the marketing fluff of buying free speed. The real story is that the humans inside the clothing and on top of the bikes did....NOT THE STUPID GEAR!!!!!

SORRY FOR SHOUTING, but sometimes I really have to shake my head at this place. No one remembers what bike Faris road when he won Kona 2005. We all remember that Faris won (guess his kit, as almost everyone will remember THAT KIT vs any other clothing since then)

Yeh we do!
Speedos!

Cannondale if I am correct. Not googling it until after I post!

Although your points are correct...the thread was about the gear to start. If it was about the run and then turned to gear then turned to Lionel...then maybe you should be shouting! ;) Just my two cents.

Brent

---

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Sorry it’s my fault for feeding Tryhardbryan :( I think he still thinks Wurf might’ve won in a Roka suit.

Well this thread is stupid in that we're arguing semantics of Wurf's clothing choice when his biggest problem was giving away 12-17 minutes on the run to his rivals. At the end of the day, he lost the win by 7 minutes. That was not a clothing choice. This being ST I know you guys are going to debate if the 2 and 4 min to 2nd and rd was the suit. But maybe the bigger problem was overbiking. A well paced bike and that suit maybe gets him at least 2nd.

I would be curious to know Wurf's flat out 10K and 5K times. In fairness to his bike pacing if he's not a 34 min 10K runner, or 16:30 5K guy, it's hard for him to be an open 2:40 runner which would equate to a low 3:0x IM marathon (marathon plus 20 min)

Yes I'll second how stupid this thread is and it is that reason not the language that offends me...

OK, I went a bit over the top on my reaction to this thread on the clothing choice. I'm a fan of Wurf. I love how the guy races, I don't like it when we give athletes a bail out on their performance because of equipment choices and this type of discussion is always around magical gains on the bike from equipment (yes, I get that there is really bad equipment choices and I also appreciate in a protour bike race 5-10 seconds of delta make a difference between suits). But over 180K even if we take 10 seconds and multiple over 4.5 hours vs 1 hour (course multiplier, not entirely accurate), the suit is not making the delta on positions. Maybe if Wurf bikes 3 minutes slower he runs 8-10 min faster. Sure its a trade off playing your strengths in terms of biking faster vs running faster. But I don't think Wurf has tried a race yet where he went a touch easier. He's gone full throttle on all of them on the bike

No I totally agree with you on someone claiming Wurf could have won the race with a different tri suit. Just like the threads about Sanders winning Kona with a different bike or better position. Arm chair critics when both have spent time in the wind tunnel and had expert advice. What I will say though is from all accounts Wurf went full gas on the bike and held out a long way on the run but obviously faded in the back end. I haven't looked at his other races but I don't think he has put out a run that kind of pace over the front end of the marathon. I know he has run quicker but I think he definitely had a crack for the win and his run is still improving.

It's hard to know exactly what Tim Kerrison brings from a tri standpoint - obviously Dan Lorang has had success both bike racing and triathlon but from listening to Cam on podcasts - he rides with the Sky boys and gets off and runs a 1:17 half marathon and ran a 2:57 marathon in training etc...jumps in the pool. I know it's got to be more thought out than that but at this point, it's hard to get a grasp on what they are doing other than keeping him good and solid on the bike. I thought he looked pretty good running (good coverage - we saw lots of it) and he's light years ahead of Talansky's run at O'side at this point (granted, a couple years in). We will find out soon how the 6-8 IM's a year works out for him.

Careful with the "you guys" comments - I wasn't debating that at all ;)

Brent

---

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

isn't tim kerrison from a swim background originally? remember there was talk about sky guys doing intervals all year round akin to swimmers and that was something kerrison intrroduced???

You are a funny chap.
No one is saying wurf would have won.
Just saying he lost a bit of time by a possible poor clothing choice and maybe a sponsorship conflict.

How much was your darling Andy Potts lamented for his choice of gator skins. I bet you idiots thought he would win the race if he changed them.

How do you know Wurf is overbiking? This is another problem we keep having here, same thing with Björn, people were saying if he had biked x min slower he would have run xx min faster, but that is not always the case!
Wurf has run low 3s a couple times now which is a good starting point. Maybe he will get faster on the run, and maybe not, but he rides at a low if and hr usually in the 140- low 150 for the bike. He has an ftp over 400w and averages 300-330w which is in the normal range.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

save grace and delete that post

No one has grace here, this is slowtwitch!
He called me stupid, I called him a moron, same thing.

I'm just going to say that you are over thinking this, more than just a little bit.

So, Wurf was wearing a different tri suit. Pufff (that's the French 'pufff' )

This brings me back to Lionel Sanders posts 3-4 years ago.

---

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching

Keep digging you can redeem yourself for starting this thread ;)